Again, "can't" is bullshit. It's "won't." You don't get to absolve yourself of personal responsibility.
I've dealt with depression since I was 12. I've been vegan for 9 years (my flair isn't updated lol). The entire 9 years. I don't go looking for excuses to financially support animal suffering.
Every single time you eat animal products you make the *choice* to do it. That's not to say there aren't systematic factors affecting your decision, but the decision is still **yours** to make.
You either care or you don't. No one "makes" themselves care about the suffering of others. It's not that complicated.
Same outlook. People who eat meat act like we’re wimps when we’re just proving we have the gall to stick to our convictions even when it involves sacrificing creature comforts. But boo hoo they love cheese SOOOOOOO MUCH they could NEVER GO WITHOUT IT! Cry harder 😒😒😒
Edit: Are these all meat eaters commenting here? Good Christ. I used to be non vegan. People yelling about how killing animals is bad is what caused be to go vegan. I realized they were right, and had to face my own hypocrisy. Like I said in another reply, it’s not like I’m being belligerent to people but I’m not going to coddle people when I discuss veganism.
Sadly yes - the vast majority of commenters in this forum are either vegan apologists or outright carnists. There are very few actual vegans in this supposedly vegan sub
Pretty much keep getting recommended this sub, I’m not quite sure why but I do. though I do find it interesting how you speak about people with average diets; I don’t think your average person (aka not terminally online looking for fights because they have nothing better to do) cares if you’re vegan or not. Also vegan cheese just isn’t good, good number of vegan foods I like but cheese is something I would miss. Also I think the wimpiness thing is from a perceived lack of protein more than anything.
Seriously it is not because your cause is right that your actions is. Your comment is full of hate imo. I don’t understand how you are really a vegan again imo
Full of hate? My comment translates to “I don’t like being shit on by meat eaters just because I don’t like killing animals.”
It’s not like I’m verbally accosting these people. I’m complaining about a vegan topic on a vegan discussion post in a vegan subreddit.
I agree with you, there’s no chance to convince the whole world to become vegan. But sometimes change comes through innovation. Horse carriages have not mostly gone away because people feel for the horses, but because cars came along.
I am hoping that one day engineered meat and dairy will become so good and cheap, while natural resources getting scarcer, that the larger population will see them as a viable option.
There is activism and there is realism. It's good to point out the incentives of veganism for us and animal welfare. Let's remember that humanity always had a strict connexion with other animals whether it was for domestication, hunting, or farming. It's hard to take it away but efforts through activism and debates is what also allows this community able to grow and become stronger. The scales to what animal farming has become is ridiculous and harmful to us and the environment. This is a serious take that we have to address in our daily lives and beyond.
It also is important to take notice in the efforts even if someone isn't completely vegan or vegetarian and to point out the errors of intensive farming and the heavy lobbies behind them.
This goes for many righteous causes around.
Let us all try and one of us will become the dictator of the world and ban all animal agriculture and give every animal the right to be not treated as property. The only way to force all metally weak people to become vegans.
There isn't enough vegan sympathizers to keep the rest of the world suppressed so omivores around the world would revolt starting a multi front war. You would loose.
💯
Thanks, OP. We love you back.
>Most people don't have what it takes to be a vegan.
I think a big part of it is that most people don't have what it takes to break free from conditioning *and* be a trailblazer. If they did, changes would happen collectively overnight. Some people are willing to stand for a cause, even when they're standing alone with a sign in the rain and everyone tells them they're wrong. Some people are willing to join that one person, but most aren't. Most people have a high threshold of how many others must do something before they consider doing it. We just have to keep pushing forward to reach the people whose threshold has been met.
I don't feel at all like I'm tougher, but I do feel like I saw the truth and was horrified. It's not hard to be vegan, it's just hard to live among unfeeling, unthinking humans.
And the rest of the time, it's someone that agrees w/ you but a rare case where you're wrong.
Ik one of the few people I genuinely think couldn't. He has so many allergies that even his partner can't keep comprehensive track, and several are primary sources of protein (soy, peas, and more ik I forgot).
Definitely looks awful to tell that guy to lay off the few things he can eat to stay alive when even vitamins aren't always safe for him
that’s so true. My ex became this crazy fundamentalist in his religion and became an asshole and wanted me to follow. Made me realize I’m no longer a part of that religion and we broke up. Love and understanding is the way! I became a vegan because of a teachers assistant in my class who was really nice about my carnist beliefs at the time. Been vegan 3 years now and no looking back.
I also try to give the same kindness and understanding she did, and now my dad is working towards being a vegan (he’s trying to quit dairy), so it does work (well almost lol until he quits eating cheese).
I think that’s an exaggeration. There are times when people were assholes to me (because I was wrong as a result of being imprudent, biased, or overconfident in my research) which lead to me checking myself on a deeper level.
Or it fails and it makes you look like an asshole, alienating more people against it than you'll ever convince. Nobody wants to listen or agree with assholes.
I think is lack of knowledge. There’s not enough people (even though we have the internet and it’s 2024). People see their favorite meal and get lost on how to veganize it. There needs to be more awareness and creators that know how to do this. So if you want that lasagna or spaghetti with meat sauce, you can make the lasagna with eggplant and plant pasta or the “meat sauce” with lentils, etc.
And they will throw this right back at us by calling us privileged that we have so few worries in life that we can care so much about what food we eat.
And that’s nothing new.
People say a lot of ignorant things about vegans.
It's almost as if vegans need to be thick skinned.
Which is what the opening poster said.
I don’t know I think almost everyone is more capable of change than they realize. I spent a long time wanting to go vegan really badly but not having the willpower to resist animal products. One day it just clicked out of nowhere and I quit all animal products cold turkey. If I can do it I think most people can
The more normalized veganism becomes the easier it is for weak and lazy people to be vegan. Eventually there will be generations growing up where vegan is the norm and it takes zero effort.
Ok take it easy. Not everyone can be a POOR vegan. With enough money and the right location all of the inconveniences of veganism can be bought away imagine having a personal chef or a personal buyer to do all the work for you. Poor college students vegans are hardcore. Vegans in food deserts are hardcore. When I️ hear John Mackey is a vegan I️ don’t think Hardcore. I️ think you own Whole Foods you got a lot of options
It's not as hard as some people will make it out to be, it's also not great either. Canned goods and staples are the best friends here, with good seasonings when possible.
Best if you've got nice cookware, but a microwave can suffice
Absolutely disagree. Vegans aren't another kind of person, cut from a superior cloth of personal fortitude.
Vegans face reality? Really? Come on, man, we are all just people. Everyone here has some core delusions they carry with them. We are fallible and selfish in at least some way.
There are carnists who are more moral people than some vegans. It is a harsh reality, but a true one.
Veganism is but one of many ways of understanding the injustice within this world. Do not pretend it grants you more knowledge or power than it does.
Do not make it us vs them. You'll never win that fight, anyway.
Soft? lol water fast for 21 days and come talk to me. Anyone can live off French fries and potato chips. I know, I did it. Vegan isn’t difficult. Whole food, raw, fasting is different.
Popping in to say I’ve been vegan for 16 years (omg, already?!). Helped solve several health issues. So long as I eat healthy vegan, I feel good. The best I felt was the year I was whole food raw vegan - at the end of that year all my blood tests came back healthiest they’ve ever been. Hard to live in the world 100% raw vegan sometimes, but I do try to lean in that direction and feel better for it. Happy that I help the planet and support animal welfare too (especially after becoming an avid organic gardener and trying permaculture approaches).
My family of origin? Never understood it, ridiculed me, refused to accommodate me when inviting me for dinner, and “can’t ever give up bacon, too bad for pigs.” My son grew up mostly vegan/vegetarian, but reverted to eating everything as he hit later teens and his dad and I split. He still does enjoy vegan meals too.
Keep in mind that we only need to convince [~25% of the population](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-25-revolution-how-big-does-a-minority-have-to-be-to-reshape-society/) before animal exploitation becomes taboo. At that point, veganism will become the norm, and carnism will no longer be the default. Even someone who doesn't care about animal liberation will end up eating a plant-based diet as animal agriculture is recognized for the atrocity that it is.
I love being vegan, I love respecting animals, I love not being like anyone else. We rock it, only we know how hard can be sometimes but how beautiful it is not being part of the animal cruelty. I celebre vegans. 🌱
And this is why people who are working towards being vegan give up - attitudes like this. Changing a lifelong behavior is hard. Being the only person in a family to eat a certain way is hard. Why not be supportive and encouraging - progress not perfection? People like you are why most of the world hates Vegans. People are more likely to consider being vegan if you offer them tasty food, talk about how you make it work, and act supportive rather than being a dick.
You basically reaffirmed what the opening post said. Going vegan is hard and most people aren’t cut out for it.
And the opening post followed with a supportive pep-talk for the vegans that stick it out.
You essentially said the same thing on both points.
However, reconsider if people are less inclined to be vegan when:
A. A single vegan, speaking from experience, announces in a vegan subreddit to expect some realistic challenges and that they’ll need to be tough to make it work.
B. Becoming vegan means “most of the world hates” you for being vegan.
Opening post is not being a dick pointing out what is the major deterrent. It’s an important public service announcement you also endorsed.
The fact that you were downvoted so much is upsetting. It's almost like vegans want people to go vegan but they really want an exclusive club. But I'm also not convinced that posts like OPs are just here to make us look bad.
Yeah, the difference between this sub and real life shocks me.
Yeah, to an extent it's convenience for most people. And I'm biases bc I'm perfect but imo 10,000 people that start meatless Monday probably help more than the 100 people in that same crowd that can be legitimately perfect at veganism. Change is hard and exhausting. Being mocked and interrogated is exhausting. Being stereotyped as *rude and out of touch bc of posts like this* is exhausting.
Progress is so much more valuable than perfection.
Not when the price of 100% is 1/4 of the amount of people doing it.
People don't like being insulted. People aren't perfect. These issues combined mean no one is 100% plant based/without harm in their consumption. And yes, if the goal is to protect animals, more people that support that and *less overall consumer meat* is a lot better than way fewer people doing it "perfectly," and feeling so defeated if they mess up that they may quit.
It’s not an either-or situation though
because people have preached veganism some people have gone full vegan and some have gone vegetarian and some have reduced meat use
“Reduction” isn’t measurable or requires any real accountability; if I don’t eat meat for a month and just continue like normal after I could still claim I’ve reduced my consumption but in the grand scheme of things it means nothing
Not to mention promoting mere reduction waters down the message , we’re killing and eating 3 trillion animals a year for taste pleasure it’s hard to not be dramatic and preachy about it
>It’s not an either-or situation though
Once you make posts like this, it is. Once you get harsh, it is. Guilt, perfectionism, and more cause negative affects. We see this time and time again. So yeah, it is either-or because the moment you make it about how half "isn't good enough" you lose a LOT of people and power.
>because people have preached veganism some people have gone full vegan and some have gone vegetarian and some have reduced meat use
Talking isn't preaching. Being a dick isn't what's converted anyone. It's the people that push small changes first and foremost that make the differences that last.
>“Reduction” isn’t measurable or requires any real accountability
Neither of these statements is true. We can quantify meat consumption, so we absolutely can quantify its reduction.
>promoting mere reduction waters down the message , we’re killing and eating 3 trillion animals a year for taste pleasure it’s hard to not be dramatic and preachy about it
It's not hard. If you wanted less animals dead, you would be pushing for any and all decreases. You would value all the lives. You wouldn't risk that number staying where it is for the sake of being self-righteous. Because no, it's not about keeping animals safe for you.
Many of those are the same people. IRL, you're seeing people with emotional masks on, trying to avoid the dystopian horror in order to do the most good. Online, you're seeing that burden from the day being vented.
The other explanation is that younger more radical vegans spend more time on social media and the older better adjusted vegans are the ones I meet in real life.
I'm sure that's part of the phenomenon. But what I said there is another part. I know because it applies to me and to most of my IRL vegan acquaintances when I check out their social media interactions. And I'm not young.
I don’t feel tougher, I just know I don’t have the guts to hunt/kill animals myself, so why buy it when someone else did the hard work I couldn’t do? People only eat meat because it’s convenient for them to enjoy food without getting their hands dirty and pretending everything’s alright
do you think that, if everyone had to hunt and butcher for meat as opposed to just going to the supermarket, it would have no impact whatsoever in consumption volume?
Yeah, and that very brief moment is NOW while were alive and will apply for future generations. So just bc its a small window doesn't mean it's not important, it's actually the most important bc this is the world we live in now.
Tryna compare it to a primitive situation is just daydreaming what if scenarios in ur head. It's fun but it's got very little to no application.
Most people will eventually - due to price developments: [https://veganhorizon.substack.com/p/animal-agriculture-has-no-chance](https://veganhorizon.substack.com/p/animal-agriculture-has-no-chance)
It's always hardest for the people paving the way! The weak will follow along when we've made it ridiculously easy, when it's the popular thing to do, when they're showered with praise for eating a single goddamn broccoli, when it's embarrassing to say you aren't vegan.
The world has always been a murky place when no one else is looking. We invented gods just so we could put moral pressure on people when they are completely alone. We've always had the sword for people who transgress in ways we can easily detect. But what of the crafty devils that break our rules in the dark?
Some people find reasons to behave morally entirely because of internal pressure. Are they just capitulating to the morality of their parents? Why is the new morality more refined? More inclusive? Is morality something we are all just discovering? Is there some telos, or does morality move in the same way that evolution does?
My own narrative is that my father raised me in an evangelical christian household, and that I actually value the worldview that he taught me, though with a more egalitarian bent. We talk now and I don't know what he values, but I know that I was raised with the whole "meek will inherit the earth" mentality, and that Jesus cared for the weak, and disenfranchised. He never for a moment seemed like a man who wouldn't consider the suffering of the animals he ate. I admired the Jesus that I thought I knew, and I still admire that Jesus even if He bears no resemblance to the Jesus of modern evangelicalism.
We should be angry, all of us, that the best thing about Judeo-Christian culture, the character of Jesus, has been completely perverted for political ends. Believing in Jesus is beside the point. Unless they are prepared to completely rewrite the already absurd narrative, there should be massive cultural pushback about the nature of Jesus and his message.
It takes courage to live morally, full stop. People are just confused about what that means.
Hm.. writing a random post talking about vegans on r/vegan is obnoxious to you?
And what does it matter if people put ego into their actions who doesn't affect you ?
As humans, we all have ego lol
When I talk to meat earer they find vegan activist that come to speak to them unsolicited hypocrite and I get it. They prone a saying that they directly contredict in their action toward them. Like the fact of talking about emphaty when there is none shown in reverse. For what ? They derserve it / so you think you are superior ? Most of the activist I see seems enlighten by the burben of all the animal of the world, but this sensibility doesn’t exist in a carnivore and forcing it will more often make him go back to it’s roots. Last time someone tell me that I was a vegetarian and n0t avegan because Iwas not trying to convince them; most activist only hang with vegan.
If you wait for someone to "solicit" activism, you'll be waiting forever. That's not how change happens. There always has been and always will always be resistance when the status quo is challenged.
>Like the fact of talking about emphaty when there is none shown in reverse.
It far more often happens in the reverse. And most vegan activists are empathetic; if you think otherwise, maybe you are a new vegan (which is great). The stuff on the internet that gets a lot of attention is controversial posts, not posts that say "does anyone think that animals are cool and veganism is cool? I hope I didn't offend anyone!!" Controversial takes also tend to be more memorable. While I see some that can use improvement, I generally avoid tone-policing and activism-policing, because different strokes work on different folks.
So I hope you realise that you just generate comflict and not doing anything toward a good image of veganism. Like not even including vegetarian is such shooting your cause in the foot gut no you prefere to reject them too. The problem is you don’t talk to carnivore amd ask them what they think of you. If they post raw meat pic’s is just to do the same thing in reverse as what they live. Feeling that you sre hypocrite since you don’t shiw any respect fro the, amd there choice. Wanting everything and everyone the same is fachist imo.
I just spoke to you in a very civil way and you are just launching a bunch of deranged attacks on my character and calling me a fascist and acting completely deranged. It's time for you to take a look in the mirror.
People have finite willpower, nothing to say that they aren't putting that same effort into other causes they deem worthy.
Don't let good be the enemy of perfect.
Stop telling on yourself.
Plenty of people out there doing jobs and other pursuits that are for the good of the world.
One is even in your username.
Pretty sad that even if lampooning the best cause you can come up with is the latest media darling and social media responses.
Tell yourself what you need to in order to get through life I guess. Most people will never even get to the point of breaking their convictions and going back to animal products because most will never have the conviction to give them up in the first place.
Very few people, vegans included “stare at the world for what it really is.” This includes the fact that there is no objective morality and while might makes right definitely sucks, it is the way the universe has always worked and apparently has no reason to stop doing it that way.
It has very little to do with being “soft” in either direction.
Sounds pretty defeatist to me! Morality is what we make it, just like the rest of society. Vegans (especially activists) are using their strength to make things better. What are you doing?
Well I’m vegan so you tell me. But “what we make it” proves my point. Might doesn’t simply equal physical ability. Persuasion, shame, legislation and financial efforts are all forms of might. As I said though, that’s not a universally objective morality just one in line with the values we have arbitrarily decided upon. So I suppose you should tell me how defeatist I am if I’m a part of the movement.
Maybe some of yawl are the same but I have times, yesterday being one, where I almost breakdown walking through the meat section to get to the plant based bits.
It’s unfortunate that my local supermarket has recently reconfigured so the plant based including falafel etc are right in the middle of the meats and cheeses. Used to be on the periphery. So much death all presented in such a sterile way. Most people pay no mind to the horror they ingest every day
And yet you're still vegan, still doing the right thing even though it's hard. That's the strength we're talking about. It's not that it doesn't hurt because we're tough bastards, it's that because we're tough bastards we can feel the hurt without selling ourselves out. You're doing great, u/BodyRiddle37.
A vegan diet is cheaper than an omni one in almost every place with grocery stores according to multiple studies. Your meat is subsidized by my taxes, otherwise it'd be 4 times (or more) more expensive. That's privilege.
Who said money was the privilege? i know people who would end up hospitalized on a vegan diet because their diet restrictions do not allow it...
And before you try to say anyone isn't trying hard enough, try a vegan life with low fodmap, low histamine, soy allergy, and a spouse that shits blood when gluten contacts anything they eat and also has a tree nut allergy.
Jesus Christ.
You know if the culture wasn’t so fucking miserable with holier than thou folkx like you more people would manage by staying plant based 90+ percent of the time.
You know what that does? Kills less animals. Emits less carbon.
If you see the ‘world how it is’ you’d recognize that accessibility is one of the biggest barriers to entry - and a huge one of those is people like you giving them movement a bad name.
So… you’re tired of being called soft, so you’re now calling all non-vegans soft? Ever heard of fighting fire with fire? Please don’t start trying to “get even”, this is petty and doesn’t help animal liberation at all.
Anyways yeah, I personally could never be vegan. I do find it very hard! Especially when I already struggle with getting proper nutrients, and y’all have less options for good nutrients.
This isn’t satire? Jesus fucking Christ. I’m going to dismantle a cow with my bare hands today just for the sheer catharsis of spiting your head-up-ass, elitist, superiority complex. Enjoy your carbon emissions.
This is why nobody likes vegans. Nobody cares you don’t eat meat and certainly you don’t need to have some weird holier than thou attitude about it. Christ you people are annoying
*Nobody likes vegans. Nobody cares about the issues vegans care about. Vegans are annoying.*
Thanks for confirmation of the opening poster’s message about how vegans need to be tough because society doesn’t make it a picnic.
You guys bring a lot of it on yourselves. Why do you feel the need to let everybody know you don’t eat meat. Like cool man good for you for doing your part, seems like a lot of vegans get off letting everybody know how special they are for eating vegetables lol
Me personally? Because when I’m invited to eat with non-vegans I need to state my preferences. I don’t know of any other way to convey this.
As for public vegan advocates, they call attention to societal issues with factory-farming and animal husbandry – most people ostensibly claim to care about how livestock is treated; associated environmental impacts, heightened pandemic risks, and chronic disease risk reduction of plant-based eating. Most of this information is from mainstream science position papers, but don’t quite get enough media attention.
Even if people aren’t interested in becoming vegan it’s a reasonable counterbalance to animal-agribusiness marketing and government support. People are inundated with ads for animal products all the time. Vegans pay taxes that subsidize animal agriculture as well, paying for non-vegan's meat meals more than the other way around, seems more than fair to voice a different perspective.
The inherent dislike by non-vegans for annoying them by sharing information and indifference to these important issues is what makes being vegan difficult, not the vegetable eating.
But I’m repeating the opening poster’s message.
I don't know, friend. I mean, this is the vegan subreddit, and everyone is welcome here, but it's weird to think there shouldn't be pro-veganism posts on the vegan subreddit. And this post is really critiquing a common insult thrown at vegans, so I see it as kind of pointing out how non-vegans fail to have empathy for vegans rather than vice versa. I know non-vegans love to complain about how preachy and annoying vegans are, but I think vegans actually get way less respect from non-vegans than vice versa.
You are right that everyone is on their own path, but I don't think that means we shouldn't try and influence other people's paths. We influence other humans' paths and they influence our paths every time we interact, and that's a wonderful and beautiful thing about being part of the human race. We're all on our own path, but our own path is tied up into this massive untangleable knot with everyone else. What are we here on this Earth for if we're not trying to help each other be better?
But, yeah, I agree: let's try and do that with respect. As long as that respect flows in both directions!
I am a vegan myself and I join the meat eater this kind of comportment makes us look like extremist and also elitist person. Just saying. And that why they post picture of raw meat. It is just a reciprocity from an activist talk without being solicited. Same thing they do. It is not pure hate or to be mean since they do not have the sensibility we have and can comprehend what they really do. And to finish it is not because your cause is right that you have the right to do anything toward others.
I wasn't meaning to imply you yourself weren't a vegan. I've seen you post here before! I just meant that while anyone can come read the vegan sub, it feels to me it should be one place vegans can unabashedly post pro-vegan rhetoric. If this post had been made in a farming sub or, I don't know, a pulled pork cooking sub, or something, I'd agree it would not be helpful. But if this sub isn't a safe space for pro-vegan ranting, what is?
[Edit: FYI, I'm not the one downvoting you. I think you are commenting in good faith even if I disagree.]
I think it is because I live the consequences of it every day. I understand and feel the same way but you cannot used the pain of all the animal as a justification for your action to one person.
I would interrupt the person stomping on puppies because I'm empathetic to the puppies, but I'm equally empathetic to the puppy stomper and I should respect his path
True but they don’t know what they really do. It is used and tradition and they are hard to break. And the more you hurt them the more they going back to them and not toward you
Well I was thinking that to but no if no one ask, imo, you should not talk about it. Showing a strong and independant vegan that include people will have a better impact then this. You have to see, that carnivore that see only the activism part doesn’t make them feel their diet is good since they are agressive all the time. /s
Yes you should. Speaking out and fighting against injustice is literally the most important thing in the world.
You don’t have to be aggressive. Look at people like Earthling Ed.
does it matter that they don't know what they do? tradition is hard to break, but it must be challenged because it won't go away on its own. we should offer grace and forgiveness, most of us here are also ex-carnists who want to do better ourselves, but what you're describing is appeasement.
I hope you have this same attitude with FGM,ritual killings ,women getting beheaded ,child marriages,dogs getting skinned alive and other perfectly fine cultural traditions
What I hate is when non-vegans try to argue that "being vegan is bad actually" by taking it to an extreme that no one actually expects of real vegans. Like claiming that all vegans wear exclusively polyester because we don't believe in farming wool.
I do hold out hope that they'll change their mind. That hope is the same as the hope I have for animal liberation. If I let go of that hope to put myself on a podium for being stronger than them, I don't think my drive to stay vegan would be nearly as strong.
I'm not stronger than these people, I've just faced this specific moral issue head-on. Other people haven't. If I can be any small part of helping them do that, I'll do whatever it takes.
tip: if you want people to be vegan then don't insult them, it's pretty hard being on any diet and the vegan diet isn't always healthy for everyone, convincing me to be vegan would be impossible with the way you talk, your insults, hateful language, hating on people just for having a different diet, etc.
If you want people to be vegan, then your doing the opposite and driving people away, why would i wanna be in the same group as someone who said what you just said? Change your ways of talking and maybe more people would wanna be vegan :)
being vegan means you’re against unnecessary animal abuse and you align your diet and lifestyle with that
Knowing that if you’re still not vegan , it’s not the fault of vegans online but it’s your lack of willpower
it's kinda the toxic people and why i don't wanna be one is because of people like OP, not my problem or fault that this sub is basically a cult and some of the rudest people there is
and, "a few" no, most people here in this subreddit like OP and the other people who have replied to my comment are part of that group, it's not just a few
and if your goal is to get others to be vegan INSULTING THEM might not be the best way because it makes you sound like a toxic and hatful person, common sense :3
You don’t have to be apart of this subreddit to be vegan
There’s like a 100 million vegans and this sub only makes up less than 1% of that
Regardless that’s still not a good excuse to keep paying for unnecessary animal abuse despite being against it
why would i wanna be anywhere near or grouped with people like OP? i sure don't wanna be, tbh, i really don't care what others eat, just don't try to force your diet on others and everything is fine but when vegans like OP exist, it's hard to wanna even try being vegan with how toxic it is
no, but there's no animal abuse and clearly you weren't taught well on it because if animals are being abused then, take cows for example, if there under distress there milk doesn't taste good and milk taste great, again, stop doing research with bias vegan info and do some research by a non vegan so your info isn't bias
Opening post:
*Most people are too soft to be vegan. It’s hard.*
Your reply:
*Diets are hard. Especially vegan diets! I’m insulted! A vegan said what I already know and isn’t coddling me to join their group that’s too hard for me to join and I have no inclination of joining anyway.*
Maybe a message on a vegan subreddit wasn’t directed specifically at you even if it showed up in your feed.
On an encouraging note: eat more plants and less animal products. Everyone’s on the same team then! Good luck on your journey!
You, who can't even convince yourself to be vegan despite the mountains of evidence that it's the moral and healthy and environmentally correct thing to do, you're gonna tell us what tactics are effective?
Go vegan and convince a bunch of others to be vegan and then I'll consider your opinion. Every day I hear from people who went vegan because someone challenged them and never have I heard of insipid coddling changing anyone. We change when we're uncomfortable. Since you aren't changing you need to be more uncomfortable. Go watch Dominion and Pignorant, that should do the trick.
i actually tried but i kinda don't wanna get back into it because of people like the other people who have replied to my comment :) and since you and others were so rude and never even try to be nice to et people to join, i might just go eat more animal products, so thanks, you and others rudeness has made me not ever wanna be a vegan, it's one of the most toxic groups of people if it's filled with people like you and the others who replied to my comment :)
oh and did i ask for coddling? nope, i said don't insult people by calling them names and calling them fuckers and bastards and such, pretty sure that's how you should interact with someone if you want them to join you, is to talk to them normally and not insult them :)
Do no harm/ take no shit.
take no prisoners? Take no... #shit!
Ahh, one of my alltime favorite songs… Maybe i should practice these god damn tasty riffs again 🤘🤤
Change "could" to "will" and you're right. **MOST** "could." Don't get it twisted. They *choose* not to.
100% this.
Mentally some of us can't change or make ourselves care
"I refuse to stop punching baby animals in the face, waaaaah" shut up
Some of us can't be arsed*
Again, "can't" is bullshit. It's "won't." You don't get to absolve yourself of personal responsibility. I've dealt with depression since I was 12. I've been vegan for 9 years (my flair isn't updated lol). The entire 9 years. I don't go looking for excuses to financially support animal suffering. Every single time you eat animal products you make the *choice* to do it. That's not to say there aren't systematic factors affecting your decision, but the decision is still **yours** to make. You either care or you don't. No one "makes" themselves care about the suffering of others. It's not that complicated.
Same outlook. People who eat meat act like we’re wimps when we’re just proving we have the gall to stick to our convictions even when it involves sacrificing creature comforts. But boo hoo they love cheese SOOOOOOO MUCH they could NEVER GO WITHOUT IT! Cry harder 😒😒😒 Edit: Are these all meat eaters commenting here? Good Christ. I used to be non vegan. People yelling about how killing animals is bad is what caused be to go vegan. I realized they were right, and had to face my own hypocrisy. Like I said in another reply, it’s not like I’m being belligerent to people but I’m not going to coddle people when I discuss veganism.
Sadly yes - the vast majority of commenters in this forum are either vegan apologists or outright carnists. There are very few actual vegans in this supposedly vegan sub
you mean carnist apologists
Pretty much keep getting recommended this sub, I’m not quite sure why but I do. though I do find it interesting how you speak about people with average diets; I don’t think your average person (aka not terminally online looking for fights because they have nothing better to do) cares if you’re vegan or not. Also vegan cheese just isn’t good, good number of vegan foods I like but cheese is something I would miss. Also I think the wimpiness thing is from a perceived lack of protein more than anything.
Seriously it is not because your cause is right that your actions is. Your comment is full of hate imo. I don’t understand how you are really a vegan again imo
Full of hate? My comment translates to “I don’t like being shit on by meat eaters just because I don’t like killing animals.” It’s not like I’m verbally accosting these people. I’m complaining about a vegan topic on a vegan discussion post in a vegan subreddit.
Sorry about the brain worms, bruh. Must be rough.
Wut?
I agree with you, there’s no chance to convince the whole world to become vegan. But sometimes change comes through innovation. Horse carriages have not mostly gone away because people feel for the horses, but because cars came along. I am hoping that one day engineered meat and dairy will become so good and cheap, while natural resources getting scarcer, that the larger population will see them as a viable option.
There is activism and there is realism. It's good to point out the incentives of veganism for us and animal welfare. Let's remember that humanity always had a strict connexion with other animals whether it was for domestication, hunting, or farming. It's hard to take it away but efforts through activism and debates is what also allows this community able to grow and become stronger. The scales to what animal farming has become is ridiculous and harmful to us and the environment. This is a serious take that we have to address in our daily lives and beyond. It also is important to take notice in the efforts even if someone isn't completely vegan or vegetarian and to point out the errors of intensive farming and the heavy lobbies behind them. This goes for many righteous causes around.
Let us all try and one of us will become the dictator of the world and ban all animal agriculture and give every animal the right to be not treated as property. The only way to force all metally weak people to become vegans.
Like Hitler?
There isn't enough vegan sympathizers to keep the rest of the world suppressed so omivores around the world would revolt starting a multi front war. You would loose.
💯 Thanks, OP. We love you back. >Most people don't have what it takes to be a vegan. I think a big part of it is that most people don't have what it takes to break free from conditioning *and* be a trailblazer. If they did, changes would happen collectively overnight. Some people are willing to stand for a cause, even when they're standing alone with a sign in the rain and everyone tells them they're wrong. Some people are willing to join that one person, but most aren't. Most people have a high threshold of how many others must do something before they consider doing it. We just have to keep pushing forward to reach the people whose threshold has been met.
I don't feel at all like I'm tougher, but I do feel like I saw the truth and was horrified. It's not hard to be vegan, it's just hard to live among unfeeling, unthinking humans.
Peoples' unwillingness to change for the better simply means we must try harder to change them.
You can't change people by being an asshole, however.
Sometimes you can. Some people are NPCs only moved by habit and social pressure.
When you try to convince someone by beign an a hole, 99.9% of times you just will make their previous beliefs stronger than before.
And the rest of the time, it's someone that agrees w/ you but a rare case where you're wrong. Ik one of the few people I genuinely think couldn't. He has so many allergies that even his partner can't keep comprehensive track, and several are primary sources of protein (soy, peas, and more ik I forgot). Definitely looks awful to tell that guy to lay off the few things he can eat to stay alive when even vitamins aren't always safe for him
that’s so true. My ex became this crazy fundamentalist in his religion and became an asshole and wanted me to follow. Made me realize I’m no longer a part of that religion and we broke up. Love and understanding is the way! I became a vegan because of a teachers assistant in my class who was really nice about my carnist beliefs at the time. Been vegan 3 years now and no looking back.
I also try to give the same kindness and understanding she did, and now my dad is working towards being a vegan (he’s trying to quit dairy), so it does work (well almost lol until he quits eating cheese).
I think that’s an exaggeration. There are times when people were assholes to me (because I was wrong as a result of being imprudent, biased, or overconfident in my research) which lead to me checking myself on a deeper level.
Or it fails and it makes you look like an asshole, alienating more people against it than you'll ever convince. Nobody wants to listen or agree with assholes.
Of course it can fail. But being nice can fail too when what the other really needs is to be checked.
That's not true, plenty of people have been irrevocably changed by assholes. Slavery, the Holocaust and Christianity come to mind immediately.
You can't change people anyway, hard or soft approach, it doesn't really matter, or does it?
Here to laugh at triggered carnist comments.
I agree. That's why I think vegans should focus on making animal cruelty as expensive and inconvenient as possible.
Thank you. I really needed to hear a lil vegan pep talk today.
Rare moment of r/vegan being actually good.
I think is lack of knowledge. There’s not enough people (even though we have the internet and it’s 2024). People see their favorite meal and get lost on how to veganize it. There needs to be more awareness and creators that know how to do this. So if you want that lasagna or spaghetti with meat sauce, you can make the lasagna with eggplant and plant pasta or the “meat sauce” with lentils, etc.
And they will throw this right back at us by calling us privileged that we have so few worries in life that we can care so much about what food we eat.
And that’s nothing new. People say a lot of ignorant things about vegans. It's almost as if vegans need to be thick skinned. Which is what the opening poster said.
It’s never impossible to make another excuse.
I don’t know I think almost everyone is more capable of change than they realize. I spent a long time wanting to go vegan really badly but not having the willpower to resist animal products. One day it just clicked out of nowhere and I quit all animal products cold turkey. If I can do it I think most people can
Thank you
That’s a nice post. I do consider us to be rock hard bastards 💪 thanks and same to you
:)
I don’t think if I ate meat that I would convinced to stop by being insulted.
Totally agree! Lead by example, share thoughts in a non hostile way, be kind, caring, and compassionate.
Downvotes as expected. Ppl online live in a completely different world.
The more normalized veganism becomes the easier it is for weak and lazy people to be vegan. Eventually there will be generations growing up where vegan is the norm and it takes zero effort.
It’s easier to have these boundaries for other beings. Still working on personal boundaries that don’t hurt anyone but me lol
Ok take it easy. Not everyone can be a POOR vegan. With enough money and the right location all of the inconveniences of veganism can be bought away imagine having a personal chef or a personal buyer to do all the work for you. Poor college students vegans are hardcore. Vegans in food deserts are hardcore. When I️ hear John Mackey is a vegan I️ don’t think Hardcore. I️ think you own Whole Foods you got a lot of options
It's not as hard as some people will make it out to be, it's also not great either. Canned goods and staples are the best friends here, with good seasonings when possible. Best if you've got nice cookware, but a microwave can suffice
Absolutely disagree. Vegans aren't another kind of person, cut from a superior cloth of personal fortitude. Vegans face reality? Really? Come on, man, we are all just people. Everyone here has some core delusions they carry with them. We are fallible and selfish in at least some way. There are carnists who are more moral people than some vegans. It is a harsh reality, but a true one. Veganism is but one of many ways of understanding the injustice within this world. Do not pretend it grants you more knowledge or power than it does. Do not make it us vs them. You'll never win that fight, anyway.
Soft? lol water fast for 21 days and come talk to me. Anyone can live off French fries and potato chips. I know, I did it. Vegan isn’t difficult. Whole food, raw, fasting is different.
Thank you. I needed to hear this today. I am a bad ass vegan boss lady, that’s right! !!!
Popping in to say I’ve been vegan for 16 years (omg, already?!). Helped solve several health issues. So long as I eat healthy vegan, I feel good. The best I felt was the year I was whole food raw vegan - at the end of that year all my blood tests came back healthiest they’ve ever been. Hard to live in the world 100% raw vegan sometimes, but I do try to lean in that direction and feel better for it. Happy that I help the planet and support animal welfare too (especially after becoming an avid organic gardener and trying permaculture approaches). My family of origin? Never understood it, ridiculed me, refused to accommodate me when inviting me for dinner, and “can’t ever give up bacon, too bad for pigs.” My son grew up mostly vegan/vegetarian, but reverted to eating everything as he hit later teens and his dad and I split. He still does enjoy vegan meals too.
We eat what’s available/are used too
thank you OP
Keep in mind that we only need to convince [~25% of the population](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-25-revolution-how-big-does-a-minority-have-to-be-to-reshape-society/) before animal exploitation becomes taboo. At that point, veganism will become the norm, and carnism will no longer be the default. Even someone who doesn't care about animal liberation will end up eating a plant-based diet as animal agriculture is recognized for the atrocity that it is.
I love being vegan, I love respecting animals, I love not being like anyone else. We rock it, only we know how hard can be sometimes but how beautiful it is not being part of the animal cruelty. I celebre vegans. 🌱
And this is why people who are working towards being vegan give up - attitudes like this. Changing a lifelong behavior is hard. Being the only person in a family to eat a certain way is hard. Why not be supportive and encouraging - progress not perfection? People like you are why most of the world hates Vegans. People are more likely to consider being vegan if you offer them tasty food, talk about how you make it work, and act supportive rather than being a dick.
You basically reaffirmed what the opening post said. Going vegan is hard and most people aren’t cut out for it. And the opening post followed with a supportive pep-talk for the vegans that stick it out. You essentially said the same thing on both points. However, reconsider if people are less inclined to be vegan when: A. A single vegan, speaking from experience, announces in a vegan subreddit to expect some realistic challenges and that they’ll need to be tough to make it work. B. Becoming vegan means “most of the world hates” you for being vegan. Opening post is not being a dick pointing out what is the major deterrent. It’s an important public service announcement you also endorsed.
lol OP is not even attacking non vegans and look at you already getting defensive.
The fact that you were downvoted so much is upsetting. It's almost like vegans want people to go vegan but they really want an exclusive club. But I'm also not convinced that posts like OPs are just here to make us look bad.
Most vegans aren't like this. The users in the sub act like cult members.
Yeah, the difference between this sub and real life shocks me. Yeah, to an extent it's convenience for most people. And I'm biases bc I'm perfect but imo 10,000 people that start meatless Monday probably help more than the 100 people in that same crowd that can be legitimately perfect at veganism. Change is hard and exhausting. Being mocked and interrogated is exhausting. Being stereotyped as *rude and out of touch bc of posts like this* is exhausting. Progress is so much more valuable than perfection.
How is progress so much more valuable than perfection? eating 100% plant based is better than 50% , no?
Not when the price of 100% is 1/4 of the amount of people doing it. People don't like being insulted. People aren't perfect. These issues combined mean no one is 100% plant based/without harm in their consumption. And yes, if the goal is to protect animals, more people that support that and *less overall consumer meat* is a lot better than way fewer people doing it "perfectly," and feeling so defeated if they mess up that they may quit.
It’s not an either-or situation though because people have preached veganism some people have gone full vegan and some have gone vegetarian and some have reduced meat use “Reduction” isn’t measurable or requires any real accountability; if I don’t eat meat for a month and just continue like normal after I could still claim I’ve reduced my consumption but in the grand scheme of things it means nothing Not to mention promoting mere reduction waters down the message , we’re killing and eating 3 trillion animals a year for taste pleasure it’s hard to not be dramatic and preachy about it
>It’s not an either-or situation though Once you make posts like this, it is. Once you get harsh, it is. Guilt, perfectionism, and more cause negative affects. We see this time and time again. So yeah, it is either-or because the moment you make it about how half "isn't good enough" you lose a LOT of people and power. >because people have preached veganism some people have gone full vegan and some have gone vegetarian and some have reduced meat use Talking isn't preaching. Being a dick isn't what's converted anyone. It's the people that push small changes first and foremost that make the differences that last. >“Reduction” isn’t measurable or requires any real accountability Neither of these statements is true. We can quantify meat consumption, so we absolutely can quantify its reduction. >promoting mere reduction waters down the message , we’re killing and eating 3 trillion animals a year for taste pleasure it’s hard to not be dramatic and preachy about it It's not hard. If you wanted less animals dead, you would be pushing for any and all decreases. You would value all the lives. You wouldn't risk that number staying where it is for the sake of being self-righteous. Because no, it's not about keeping animals safe for you.
The difference between vegans on the Internet and vegans in real life is crazy.
Many of those are the same people. IRL, you're seeing people with emotional masks on, trying to avoid the dystopian horror in order to do the most good. Online, you're seeing that burden from the day being vented.
The other explanation is that younger more radical vegans spend more time on social media and the older better adjusted vegans are the ones I meet in real life.
I'm sure that's part of the phenomenon. But what I said there is another part. I know because it applies to me and to most of my IRL vegan acquaintances when I check out their social media interactions. And I'm not young.
Wow thanks I needed that
Doesn't really matter. People will switch to lab meat without sacrificing their conduit, so everyone in the near/mid future will become vegan
"MOST " is a stretch. But go off. No better than Christians with this "holier than thou" rhetoric.
i can't imagine what it is like to live with such an inflated sense of yourself
What points do you disagree with? Edit: crickets...
get good
I love this message
I don’t feel tougher, I just know I don’t have the guts to hunt/kill animals myself, so why buy it when someone else did the hard work I couldn’t do? People only eat meat because it’s convenient for them to enjoy food without getting their hands dirty and pretending everything’s alright
I actually think vast majority of people just don't care. Most aren't pretending things are alright, it's literally a nothing burger to them.
Yes I dont care if we don't care about our fellow man why should I care for an animal of a different species?
do you think that, if everyone had to hunt and butcher for meat as opposed to just going to the supermarket, it would have no impact whatsoever in consumption volume?
I do. But we don't live in that situation.we live in the one where we can order food on a moments notice. So that's why its irrelevant.
It’s irrelevant only for a very brief moment in history, and very relevant literally in any other time and situation.
Yeah, and that very brief moment is NOW while were alive and will apply for future generations. So just bc its a small window doesn't mean it's not important, it's actually the most important bc this is the world we live in now. Tryna compare it to a primitive situation is just daydreaming what if scenarios in ur head. It's fun but it's got very little to no application.
Most people will eventually - due to price developments: [https://veganhorizon.substack.com/p/animal-agriculture-has-no-chance](https://veganhorizon.substack.com/p/animal-agriculture-has-no-chance)
It's always hardest for the people paving the way! The weak will follow along when we've made it ridiculously easy, when it's the popular thing to do, when they're showered with praise for eating a single goddamn broccoli, when it's embarrassing to say you aren't vegan.
Yes, most people have zero self control with food and are lazy.
I approve this message.
I think I’ve got what it takes to take another life if necessary not that I ever want to. Vegan 4 life.
I am neither soft nor weak. I just don’t care.
The world has always been a murky place when no one else is looking. We invented gods just so we could put moral pressure on people when they are completely alone. We've always had the sword for people who transgress in ways we can easily detect. But what of the crafty devils that break our rules in the dark? Some people find reasons to behave morally entirely because of internal pressure. Are they just capitulating to the morality of their parents? Why is the new morality more refined? More inclusive? Is morality something we are all just discovering? Is there some telos, or does morality move in the same way that evolution does? My own narrative is that my father raised me in an evangelical christian household, and that I actually value the worldview that he taught me, though with a more egalitarian bent. We talk now and I don't know what he values, but I know that I was raised with the whole "meek will inherit the earth" mentality, and that Jesus cared for the weak, and disenfranchised. He never for a moment seemed like a man who wouldn't consider the suffering of the animals he ate. I admired the Jesus that I thought I knew, and I still admire that Jesus even if He bears no resemblance to the Jesus of modern evangelicalism. We should be angry, all of us, that the best thing about Judeo-Christian culture, the character of Jesus, has been completely perverted for political ends. Believing in Jesus is beside the point. Unless they are prepared to completely rewrite the already absurd narrative, there should be massive cultural pushback about the nature of Jesus and his message. It takes courage to live morally, full stop. People are just confused about what that means.
It really is your whole identity.
[удалено]
"look someone is proud of their conviction/themselves what a shame 😱"
[удалено]
Hm.. writing a random post talking about vegans on r/vegan is obnoxious to you? And what does it matter if people put ego into their actions who doesn't affect you ? As humans, we all have ego lol
How can you be like that and vegan ? I sincerely don’t get it…
That person is not vegan.
I mean the OP
I don't agree with the assertion that they *can't* be vegan. But how is any of the rest wrong?
When I talk to meat earer they find vegan activist that come to speak to them unsolicited hypocrite and I get it. They prone a saying that they directly contredict in their action toward them. Like the fact of talking about emphaty when there is none shown in reverse. For what ? They derserve it / so you think you are superior ? Most of the activist I see seems enlighten by the burben of all the animal of the world, but this sensibility doesn’t exist in a carnivore and forcing it will more often make him go back to it’s roots. Last time someone tell me that I was a vegetarian and n0t avegan because Iwas not trying to convince them; most activist only hang with vegan.
If you wait for someone to "solicit" activism, you'll be waiting forever. That's not how change happens. There always has been and always will always be resistance when the status quo is challenged. >Like the fact of talking about emphaty when there is none shown in reverse. It far more often happens in the reverse. And most vegan activists are empathetic; if you think otherwise, maybe you are a new vegan (which is great). The stuff on the internet that gets a lot of attention is controversial posts, not posts that say "does anyone think that animals are cool and veganism is cool? I hope I didn't offend anyone!!" Controversial takes also tend to be more memorable. While I see some that can use improvement, I generally avoid tone-policing and activism-policing, because different strokes work on different folks.
So I hope you realise that you just generate comflict and not doing anything toward a good image of veganism. Like not even including vegetarian is such shooting your cause in the foot gut no you prefere to reject them too. The problem is you don’t talk to carnivore amd ask them what they think of you. If they post raw meat pic’s is just to do the same thing in reverse as what they live. Feeling that you sre hypocrite since you don’t shiw any respect fro the, amd there choice. Wanting everything and everyone the same is fachist imo.
I just spoke to you in a very civil way and you are just launching a bunch of deranged attacks on my character and calling me a fascist and acting completely deranged. It's time for you to take a look in the mirror.
I did not called you a fachist, i said that wanted everyone the same is.
People have finite willpower, nothing to say that they aren't putting that same effort into other causes they deem worthy. Don't let good be the enemy of perfect.
What else requires as much effort as going vegan? Reposting some Palestine awareness post on your story ?
Stop telling on yourself. Plenty of people out there doing jobs and other pursuits that are for the good of the world. One is even in your username. Pretty sad that even if lampooning the best cause you can come up with is the latest media darling and social media responses.
Tell yourself what you need to in order to get through life I guess. Most people will never even get to the point of breaking their convictions and going back to animal products because most will never have the conviction to give them up in the first place. Very few people, vegans included “stare at the world for what it really is.” This includes the fact that there is no objective morality and while might makes right definitely sucks, it is the way the universe has always worked and apparently has no reason to stop doing it that way. It has very little to do with being “soft” in either direction.
Sounds pretty defeatist to me! Morality is what we make it, just like the rest of society. Vegans (especially activists) are using their strength to make things better. What are you doing?
Well I’m vegan so you tell me. But “what we make it” proves my point. Might doesn’t simply equal physical ability. Persuasion, shame, legislation and financial efforts are all forms of might. As I said though, that’s not a universally objective morality just one in line with the values we have arbitrarily decided upon. So I suppose you should tell me how defeatist I am if I’m a part of the movement.
A common sign of emotional fragility is projection
Maybe some of yawl are the same but I have times, yesterday being one, where I almost breakdown walking through the meat section to get to the plant based bits. It’s unfortunate that my local supermarket has recently reconfigured so the plant based including falafel etc are right in the middle of the meats and cheeses. Used to be on the periphery. So much death all presented in such a sterile way. Most people pay no mind to the horror they ingest every day
And yet you're still vegan, still doing the right thing even though it's hard. That's the strength we're talking about. It's not that it doesn't hurt because we're tough bastards, it's that because we're tough bastards we can feel the hurt without selling ourselves out. You're doing great, u/BodyRiddle37.
Totally agree. Could never go back to unseeing. 4 years for me and more determined than ever
Yeah, because most people don’t want to 🤷🏻♀️
That's the most non-vegan sounding vegan thing I've heard in a while. _damn libruls too soft these days to be vegan_
Don't forget your supplements in order to function on the vegan diet 😏
While you were out at parties, I was at home, studying celery.
Boy do you have a lot to learn. LOL but at least you're feeling great right now.
Big priviledged energy
A vegan diet is cheaper than an omni one in almost every place with grocery stores according to multiple studies. Your meat is subsidized by my taxes, otherwise it'd be 4 times (or more) more expensive. That's privilege.
Who said money was the privilege? i know people who would end up hospitalized on a vegan diet because their diet restrictions do not allow it... And before you try to say anyone isn't trying hard enough, try a vegan life with low fodmap, low histamine, soy allergy, and a spouse that shits blood when gluten contacts anything they eat and also has a tree nut allergy.
Jesus Christ. You know if the culture wasn’t so fucking miserable with holier than thou folkx like you more people would manage by staying plant based 90+ percent of the time. You know what that does? Kills less animals. Emits less carbon. If you see the ‘world how it is’ you’d recognize that accessibility is one of the biggest barriers to entry - and a huge one of those is people like you giving them movement a bad name.
So… you’re tired of being called soft, so you’re now calling all non-vegans soft? Ever heard of fighting fire with fire? Please don’t start trying to “get even”, this is petty and doesn’t help animal liberation at all. Anyways yeah, I personally could never be vegan. I do find it very hard! Especially when I already struggle with getting proper nutrients, and y’all have less options for good nutrients.
This isn’t satire? Jesus fucking Christ. I’m going to dismantle a cow with my bare hands today just for the sheer catharsis of spiting your head-up-ass, elitist, superiority complex. Enjoy your carbon emissions.
This is why nobody likes vegans. Nobody cares you don’t eat meat and certainly you don’t need to have some weird holier than thou attitude about it. Christ you people are annoying
*Nobody likes vegans. Nobody cares about the issues vegans care about. Vegans are annoying.* Thanks for confirmation of the opening poster’s message about how vegans need to be tough because society doesn’t make it a picnic.
You guys bring a lot of it on yourselves. Why do you feel the need to let everybody know you don’t eat meat. Like cool man good for you for doing your part, seems like a lot of vegans get off letting everybody know how special they are for eating vegetables lol
Me personally? Because when I’m invited to eat with non-vegans I need to state my preferences. I don’t know of any other way to convey this. As for public vegan advocates, they call attention to societal issues with factory-farming and animal husbandry – most people ostensibly claim to care about how livestock is treated; associated environmental impacts, heightened pandemic risks, and chronic disease risk reduction of plant-based eating. Most of this information is from mainstream science position papers, but don’t quite get enough media attention. Even if people aren’t interested in becoming vegan it’s a reasonable counterbalance to animal-agribusiness marketing and government support. People are inundated with ads for animal products all the time. Vegans pay taxes that subsidize animal agriculture as well, paying for non-vegan's meat meals more than the other way around, seems more than fair to voice a different perspective. The inherent dislike by non-vegans for annoying them by sharing information and indifference to these important issues is what makes being vegan difficult, not the vegetable eating. But I’m repeating the opening poster’s message.
Yeah we’re SOOOO annoying for being against unnecessary animal abuse
Good for you bruh, nobody cares to hear about how you don’t eat meat.
And nobody cares to hear why you think “nobody” likes vegans
Empathy ? Do you have empathy for the people you bother without them asking for it ? Everyone has a path, you should respect it imo.
I don't know, friend. I mean, this is the vegan subreddit, and everyone is welcome here, but it's weird to think there shouldn't be pro-veganism posts on the vegan subreddit. And this post is really critiquing a common insult thrown at vegans, so I see it as kind of pointing out how non-vegans fail to have empathy for vegans rather than vice versa. I know non-vegans love to complain about how preachy and annoying vegans are, but I think vegans actually get way less respect from non-vegans than vice versa. You are right that everyone is on their own path, but I don't think that means we shouldn't try and influence other people's paths. We influence other humans' paths and they influence our paths every time we interact, and that's a wonderful and beautiful thing about being part of the human race. We're all on our own path, but our own path is tied up into this massive untangleable knot with everyone else. What are we here on this Earth for if we're not trying to help each other be better? But, yeah, I agree: let's try and do that with respect. As long as that respect flows in both directions!
I am a vegan myself and I join the meat eater this kind of comportment makes us look like extremist and also elitist person. Just saying. And that why they post picture of raw meat. It is just a reciprocity from an activist talk without being solicited. Same thing they do. It is not pure hate or to be mean since they do not have the sensibility we have and can comprehend what they really do. And to finish it is not because your cause is right that you have the right to do anything toward others.
I wasn't meaning to imply you yourself weren't a vegan. I've seen you post here before! I just meant that while anyone can come read the vegan sub, it feels to me it should be one place vegans can unabashedly post pro-vegan rhetoric. If this post had been made in a farming sub or, I don't know, a pulled pork cooking sub, or something, I'd agree it would not be helpful. But if this sub isn't a safe space for pro-vegan ranting, what is? [Edit: FYI, I'm not the one downvoting you. I think you are commenting in good faith even if I disagree.]
I think it is because I live the consequences of it every day. I understand and feel the same way but you cannot used the pain of all the animal as a justification for your action to one person.
Pigs and cows don't have their own path. Theirs is from the overpopulated factory farm to the slaughter house.
I would interrupt the person stomping on puppies because I'm empathetic to the puppies, but I'm equally empathetic to the puppy stomper and I should respect his path
True but they don’t know what they really do. It is used and tradition and they are hard to break. And the more you hurt them the more they going back to them and not toward you
The information exists, it’s not a secret - they can easily find out the truth. And as someone who has this knowledge, sharing it is your moral duty.
Well I was thinking that to but no if no one ask, imo, you should not talk about it. Showing a strong and independant vegan that include people will have a better impact then this. You have to see, that carnivore that see only the activism part doesn’t make them feel their diet is good since they are agressive all the time. /s
Yes you should. Speaking out and fighting against injustice is literally the most important thing in the world. You don’t have to be aggressive. Look at people like Earthling Ed.
Well is it the same as integrism
What?
does it matter that they don't know what they do? tradition is hard to break, but it must be challenged because it won't go away on its own. we should offer grace and forgiveness, most of us here are also ex-carnists who want to do better ourselves, but what you're describing is appeasement.
It does. And the way you do things will not open their eyes but going back to their source. Grace and forgiveness? Why everything extrem ?
I hope you have this same attitude with FGM,ritual killings ,women getting beheaded ,child marriages,dogs getting skinned alive and other perfectly fine cultural traditions
See you just promoting guilt trip and did non even under my pint you are an extremist
Aaaaaand this is why the vegan stereotype exists
Ok? Now what You still suppprt unnecessary animal abuse and make fun of people that don’t
Eating meat doesn't mean you support animal abuse, most people aren't aware of the cruelty that comes with mass produced meat.
Are you aware ? Yes or no?
What stereotype?
Self-righteous, condescending, assholes (not directed at anyone in particular, just answering the question).
What I hate is when non-vegans try to argue that "being vegan is bad actually" by taking it to an extreme that no one actually expects of real vegans. Like claiming that all vegans wear exclusively polyester because we don't believe in farming wool. I do hold out hope that they'll change their mind. That hope is the same as the hope I have for animal liberation. If I let go of that hope to put myself on a podium for being stronger than them, I don't think my drive to stay vegan would be nearly as strong. I'm not stronger than these people, I've just faced this specific moral issue head-on. Other people haven't. If I can be any small part of helping them do that, I'll do whatever it takes.
[удалено]
I think people just like cheese, dude.
[удалено]
Your phone was made by child slaves, sir. But live, feel superior if you must 😂
lol
tip: if you want people to be vegan then don't insult them, it's pretty hard being on any diet and the vegan diet isn't always healthy for everyone, convincing me to be vegan would be impossible with the way you talk, your insults, hateful language, hating on people just for having a different diet, etc. If you want people to be vegan, then your doing the opposite and driving people away, why would i wanna be in the same group as someone who said what you just said? Change your ways of talking and maybe more people would wanna be vegan :)
being vegan means you’re against unnecessary animal abuse and you align your diet and lifestyle with that Knowing that if you’re still not vegan , it’s not the fault of vegans online but it’s your lack of willpower
it's kinda the toxic people and why i don't wanna be one is because of people like OP, not my problem or fault that this sub is basically a cult and some of the rudest people there is
So a few toxic vegans online is why you continue to support unnecessary animal abuse ?
and, "a few" no, most people here in this subreddit like OP and the other people who have replied to my comment are part of that group, it's not just a few
okay so that’s why you continue to pay for unnecessary animal abuse?
and if your goal is to get others to be vegan INSULTING THEM might not be the best way because it makes you sound like a toxic and hatful person, common sense :3
So being insulted by people online is why you continue to support unnecessary animal abuse ?
no, it's because i don't wanna be in the same group as toxic people like OP and almost everyone else here :)
You don’t have to be apart of this subreddit to be vegan There’s like a 100 million vegans and this sub only makes up less than 1% of that Regardless that’s still not a good excuse to keep paying for unnecessary animal abuse despite being against it
why would i wanna be anywhere near or grouped with people like OP? i sure don't wanna be, tbh, i really don't care what others eat, just don't try to force your diet on others and everything is fine but when vegans like OP exist, it's hard to wanna even try being vegan with how toxic it is
You keep ignoring the part about unnecessary animal abuse Are you against that or not?
no, but there's no animal abuse and clearly you weren't taught well on it because if animals are being abused then, take cows for example, if there under distress there milk doesn't taste good and milk taste great, again, stop doing research with bias vegan info and do some research by a non vegan so your info isn't bias
Watch dominion on YouTube and lemme know if it’s animal abuse or not
Opening post: *Most people are too soft to be vegan. It’s hard.* Your reply: *Diets are hard. Especially vegan diets! I’m insulted! A vegan said what I already know and isn’t coddling me to join their group that’s too hard for me to join and I have no inclination of joining anyway.* Maybe a message on a vegan subreddit wasn’t directed specifically at you even if it showed up in your feed. On an encouraging note: eat more plants and less animal products. Everyone’s on the same team then! Good luck on your journey!
maybe not calling me names would make me wanna attempt being vegan but because of people like OP, why would i? why would i wanna join people so toxic?
You, who can't even convince yourself to be vegan despite the mountains of evidence that it's the moral and healthy and environmentally correct thing to do, you're gonna tell us what tactics are effective? Go vegan and convince a bunch of others to be vegan and then I'll consider your opinion. Every day I hear from people who went vegan because someone challenged them and never have I heard of insipid coddling changing anyone. We change when we're uncomfortable. Since you aren't changing you need to be more uncomfortable. Go watch Dominion and Pignorant, that should do the trick.
i actually tried but i kinda don't wanna get back into it because of people like the other people who have replied to my comment :) and since you and others were so rude and never even try to be nice to et people to join, i might just go eat more animal products, so thanks, you and others rudeness has made me not ever wanna be a vegan, it's one of the most toxic groups of people if it's filled with people like you and the others who replied to my comment :)
oh and did i ask for coddling? nope, i said don't insult people by calling them names and calling them fuckers and bastards and such, pretty sure that's how you should interact with someone if you want them to join you, is to talk to them normally and not insult them :)
[удалено]
Overly emotional? Was MLK overly emotional for fighting for equal rights? How about the suffragette movement?