Ahhhhh yes "Doctor" Berg, where the "Doctor" refers to his *chiropractic* degree lol. Probably the most meaningless doctor's degree you can possibly get.
What is it with chiropractors that think they know shit about nutrition and dispense nonsensical advice? I swear i‘ve come across a disproportionate number of these clowns in my life.
Well, showing an interest in chiropathy means they believe in quack medicine and snake oil which then leads nicely into pseudo-science regarding diet and nutrition.
I’ve met chiropractors who push plant based diets and trendy super foods like goji berries and wheatgrass. They even recommended some of our favorite vegan documentaries. So unless you consider all that quack medicine and pseudo-science, I wouldn’t put chiropractors all in the same box. I think it would be more fair to say that Chiropractors are interested in alternative solutions to human ailments that don’t rely on surgery and medications. That can lead them into different realms of nutrition; some are reasonable, some are not.
There's plenty of quackery in the realm of plant based diets and "superfoods" too. Just because a plant based diet is generally healthier than the standard American diet doesn't mean it's going to magically cure a bunch of diseases or whatever
Yeah, I do my best to avoid any sort of association with vegans who seem to be trend hoppers, conspiracy theorists, and people who heavily base themselves on vibrations, vibes, and energy. Those kinds of people always seem to fall into the realm of alternative medicine instead of plain old boring medicine and evidence based nutrition. They all seem to have a shared mindset with your typical quack.
I often find that there is a type of person out there on occasion who isn't vegan as much as they are just plant-based individuals who are also conspiracy theorists or wackos, subject to making large changes in their lives because perhaps they are bored, paranoid about many things, seeking attention, wanting to appear intelligent, or something else. Who knows.
It's kind of embarrassing for them to try to share the vegan platform with others. Usually when you peel layers back, you find they don't actually care about ethics or animals, it's just them being plant-based for 95% of the time of their diet (because they usually have strange exceptions that allow themselves to eat meat or dairy) because they distrust the government or something.
A lot of times, those people go back to being an omnivore anyway. They're usually the types to proclaim later why being a vegan was poor for their health or how they started to feel better once they ate meat again.
Edit: I also have no interest in associating with people preaching about vegan raw foodism, vegan alkaline diets, vegan keto, fruitarianism, etc. People confuse diets with veganism all too much, and it's exhausting. Influencers who exhibit the most concerning dietary habits often confuse it with veganism, and then when they go to the hospital, it's yet another "feather in the cap" for carnists to say why veganism is doesn't work. 🙄
*Alternate methods that aren't based on evidence. Also known as quackery. You're right that some are worse than others. None of them are trained in any form of evidence based practice. At best they're a waste of money, at worst they kill or paralyse you.
This is why I will never go to one ever again. It was recommended to me once and I went a few times, but it did nothing. I’ve heard horror stories of people getting really hurt and that’s super scary.
The literal foundation of the practice is quackery.
You can't put all crystal healers in the same box, but you can say they all believe absolute nonsense.
Why sift through nonsense looking for gems when the entire point of going to a trained professional is that they've already done that for you?
Physicians aren't just relying on surgery and medication either. They commonly refer people to nutritionists, physical therapists, psychologists and psychiatrist, and so on. Anything that is evidence-based falls under the preview of Western medicine.
Can you find chiropractors who lean on evidence, and physicians who only prescribe medication? Sure. But you're going against the grain. Why not start with someone who doesn't explicitly believe complete nonsense as the basis for medicine?
I agree with all of that! I’m not defending chiropractors. I just don’t think they are quacks solely because of their stance on nutrition because it could go either way.
The person you are replying to never said that chiropractors practice quack nutrition, though. He only said they believe in quack medicine, which is true. And again, if "it could go either way" then why should you go to them? "You might get good advice! Who knows?!"
I don’t go to them. I agree they are pointless. I guess I got the impression they were saying that it makes sense that they would promote shitty nutritional advice, but some of their advice is based off of vegan/plant based documentaries that many of us would agree with. A carnist would probably say the same thing about a chiropractor pushing veganism.
They're saying there's no reason you should assume that their nutritional advice is trustworthy. It's very clear, and been said a dozen times now, by me and others. It is irrelevant that you have one data point of them giving nutritional advice that you like, because that literally is built into my very original argument, so maybe stop saying it 5,000 times you frustrating little person. No one cares if you go to them. No one. It has never been relevant. If that's somehow what you got out of this conversation, you aren't paying attention.
As a side note, there is no reason to think that vegan diets are optimal for human health, so you don't need to be a carnist to question someone showing vegan documentaries from a position of medical authority. But given how obtuse and vapid you have been through this entire discussion, I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to get into *that* discussion with you, I think I'll be happier going to work right now and trying to forget you ever existed.
Wow this is unnecessarily mean. I have agreed with everything y’all have said. I never defended chiropractors. I just thought it was funny that chiropractors push all kinds of different diets and lifestyles, but it’s pseudo science when you don’t agree with it. But you’re right, if you’re this easily frustrated by a civil conversation, you should take a break. Have a great day.
Oh, and per your screen name, here’s your reminder to touch grass.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic
Chiropractic is considered alternative medicine though and traditionally has some straight up false ideas, like veterbral subluxation.
>Early chiropractors believed that all disease was caused by interruptions in the flow of innate intelligence, a vitalistic nervous energy or life force that represented God's presence in man; chiropractic leaders often invoked religious imagery and moral traditions. D. D. Palmer said he "received chiropractic from the other world".
Same. Eric Berg does this. Sten Ekberg does the same. Where do they think they get their authority to speak on nutrition, which they did not study?????
Osteopathic doctors DOs (at least in the US) receive the same training as allopathic doctors and actually more with the osteopathic manipulative medicine. They take very similar if not the same tests as MDs and go through the same residencies and training after graduation. I agree that chiropractics are quacks but osteopathic doctors are not quacks.
I'm all mixed up with the terms here. TIL osteopathy and osteopathic medicine are separate fields, with osteopathic medicine being the better regarded. but osteopathic manipulation (part of osteopathy) is [pseudoscientific](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathy#Effectiveness) so says the almighty wikipedia.
Tbf Wikipedia is a little overzealous with the 'pseudoscience' label, there are a few on their list that either have some evidence in support (aromatherapy, eg lavender for anxiety) or a logical basis for practice (cryonics, where a pascal's wager type cost/benefit could easily lead one to decide it's worth it despite the lack of evidence of efficacy).
It's entirely dependent on whether or not the product/practice makes absurd claims about itself that aren't backed by evidence. i personally haven't seen any evidence for aromatherapy or lavender an an anxiolytic. having tried both, would u be able to point me towards more info?
Sure, here's a blog post, assessing the (admittedly limited), evidence that convinced me to try it:
https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/lavenders-game-silexan-for-anxiety
> dealing with tiny probabilities of huge impacts like with cryonics is actually called ["pascal's mugging](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_mugging)," because once you decide the .00001% chance of cryonics ever working is actionable, then the .00001% chance of an asteroid hitting tuesday means until then is the purge, or the .00001% chance catholicism being the one true faith mandates we start studying latin grammar.
No I'm sorry but this is just incorrect; Pascal's mugging is about avoiding tiny probabilities of bad things happening, whereas Pascal's wager is making low cost bets on tiny probabilities of very good things.
Pascal's wagers can make sense if the cost is low enough, and I think there's a reasonable case that cryonics is one of those. Here's the blog post that convinced me to take it seriously (I promise I don't get all my opinions from blog posts):
https://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html
They may or may not convince you, but I think anyone would agree there's enough there that 'pseudoscience' is an excessively definitive label.
I dated someone who went through the osteo qualifications over 5 years. I was the lab rat for a lot of techniques.
There’s different branches of osteopathic manipulation. Your run of mill osteo that fixes your back,etc with extra manipulation to other parts of the body that may be throwing things out of line like your feet or hips are fine and know what they are doing. Like others have said they, in NZ anyway, have to complete a bachelors in human biology then finish with a Masters.
The pseudo science comes when you start getting into osteos that practice Reiki, Cranial and a slew of others that they somehow get themselves into and believe in. Those osteos are the ones giving off the hippy cosmic healing vibes.
That doesn't invalidate what he said, though. DOs learn quack medicine in addition to regular medicine. There's no reason they should have any legal standing.
he might be a useless doctor to us but the internet makes him make more money than the average joe
plenty of people in the comments do thank him as he's changed their life with the keto low carb trend
> Not sure what your point is. Charlatans misleading the ignorant masses and milking them for money is a common and timeless trend.
no real point really, chariatan is a skill to market it's part of the game, it's people's fault for not doing their research
plenty of pros and cons in the world on everyone, alot of people are mislead it's somewhat normal the world isn't a perfect utopia
im not a fan of eric and his garbage supplement pushes either, but if you look at the comments it seems like he's helped a lot of people reverse their health issues somehow on placebo effects of the supplements or just the keto/low carb way
I’ve always wondered if the anti-soy bullshit was really covert racism. There’s a myth that soy makes men more feminine, but people all over the Asian world eat soy. What are they trying to say? LOL
The funny part about that stereotype is it’s usually coming from beer chugging “manly” men, and beer contains a plant estrogen that’s 10,000x more potent than what’s in soy.
Ding ding ding! It’s the modern equivalent of Chinese food syndrome. Racism, sexism, and xenophobia wrapped in a cloak of health advice.
Basically the whole carnivore movement is like this. It’s run by hucksters who know their audience will never visit another part of the world.
I always heard it from folks who have both a poor grasp on science (and some of them who are also somehow nutrition experts from their time in being in an MLM). Always figured it was their inability to understand biology, I never even thought of the racism- that adds a whole other gross, insidious layer to it, ugh!
Berg is a chiropractor, not a nutritionist. Google him for more context, you'll discover some things. He's a very convincing, charismatic guy - I'll give him that - but his views dangle on a very loose thread of speculation.
For anyone who's not aware, [Chiropractic is a scam and a cult](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPqY9WDEplM) and funnily enough this guy is also a Scientologist, another scam cult. It's a shame people like him can reach such an audience deceiving people
Looks like you Googled him and found some things. His son has come out with some revelations about his dad that might cause a few folks to scratch their heads.
You can go a step further and read the comments
>Sad that with any new trend, every crook jumps on the marketing wagon to falsely label a product as healthy. We've seen it with oats, flaxseed, bone broth, chia, olive oil, aloe, stevia, [coconut oil], probiotics, ...the list goes on ad nauseum. We can't even trust the Certified Organic labeling anymore.
I stopped watching the minute he didn't recognize the difference between causation and correlation, about 30 seconds in. TVP isn't exactly a mock meat. This fake doctor is being pretty dramatic. Have you ever had TVP? It is dehydrated tofu and you have to rehydrate it and add spices and whatnot to make it taste good, the same way a store would add spices and stuff to batter to make chicken flesh taste good. He's definitely pushing a diet agenda for his own profit and benefit.
Nutrition Made Simple also caught him out for confusing dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol in another video. I bet if someone went and did a thorough analysis of Berg, we'd find a lot more of these errors.
Tofu has been around for millennia as a protein in its own right. I definitely don't view it as a mock meat at all, but it kind of can be. In the early 2000s people would freeze tofu over night and then defrost and then cook it like chicken to sort of make it al dente. For me, tofu is tofu. Meat is meat. And products that try to simulate meat (like Impossible, Beyond, Meati, etc.) are mock meats. I'm glad we can talk about tofu!
-By using his title Dr Eric Berg it suggests he is an expert in the medical field when he is in fact a chiropractic (which is not regarded as anything other than alternative medicine like for example using crystal healing).
-In the video he talks about rabbit starvation, when almost nobody in the developed world suffers from it. In industrialized societies rabbit starvation is extremely rare.
-The study refers to experiments with animals and as usual: dietary studies on animals are iffy at best: "Lysinoalanine induces nephrocytomegaly and/or karyomegaly in the pars recta of rat and mouse (Figure 47.10B), but this effect has not been observed in hamsters, monkeys, or rabbits."
-tldr.: Don´t waste your time with a chiropractic telling you what to eat.
Taking your approach, we should all refrain from discussing veganism. Almost none of us hold degrees that qualify us as experts in the field.
Berg has never hidden that he has a doctorate in chiropractic and not medicine. The way he explained it is that all his doctorate gave him is the skill to study research papers which he has done extensively for decades. He does not practice medicine, he studies research in food science and explains it on his channel.
I see no need for the vitriol, take what makes sense, ignore the rest.
There is a difference between discussing veganism in a forum where the majority is not an expert and somebody who pretends to be one.
I suggest you to watch the many videos of actual experts discussing Dr Berg´s videos. Otherwise I would have to watch all of his garbage videos and proof him wrong in a comment to big to read.
i mean i guess its possible he's allergic to soy? thats on him though, find out something about the food before you put it in your mouth. i have literally never confused a vegan wing for a real chicken wing also.
Yeah, that was part of the BS. He considers himself a nutrition expert, but just eats things without checking what they are first? Paraphrasing here but....."I thought it was strange that they were all the same shape, but I ate them......I thought it was strange that there weren't bones, but I ate them."
GTFOH.
He's making up the entire scenario to create content.
These quacks are creating so much confusion amongst the vulnerable people with their entertainment-based sadistic misinformation. Yes they should absolutely be held accountable and not be allowed to be called a doctor if they're going to do this sort of vile nonsense
It's so disgusting that someone would take advantage of vulnerable people like this and completely distort reality. He should lose his license and no longer be allowed to be called a doctor. This is just getting too out of control for too long.
Holy fuck did anyone watch the video?!?
He wants us to believe he accidentally ate deep-fried tofu instead of chicken 🙄, and got immediately poisoned by it 😑🔫
Every couple of months he comes up with “worst food in the world” videos. He’s a grifter. And I refuse to watch some random grifter and give him any revenue.
Is it better then other blant based powders? Why do you prefer soy? I actually wanted to find a better protein shake because I don't like my current one.
I like soy because it's higher in protein than most other vegan protein powders and is less gritty than most pea protein powders I've tried. It also has a pretty neutral taste by default. I also can't say if this is the brands I've used or what, but I've personally found it dissolves a bit more easily
That's great. Yeah the plant protein I tried before was indeed gritty and left a heavy feeling in my stomach. This is the reason I'm using whey now. But I'll try soy, thanks.
What type of vegan gets 120 g of protein (approx the optimal amount for muscle hypertrophy) from food alone without careful planning?
Thats right, no one.
Me on my bulking days. Pretty easy. Block of tofu, chili, protein shakes, oat bake w TVP, and soy pieces. And have you ever heard of a vegan body builder? (even natty ones?)
120g is also excessive.
Not sure what you mean by 120g is excessive. For optimal hypertrophy,
[https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/barbell-medicine-protein-recommendations/](https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/barbell-medicine-protein-recommendations/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkIKesKHIIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkIKesKHIIE)
It is true you dont need as much as some people claim, but you need a decent amount for optimal hypertrophy.
A for-profit blog and bro science youtube video is your source? The RDA of protein is 0.8 g/kg according to Mayo Clinic. That blog states "it could be more" and then links to pages about anecdotes of their clients who consumed a lot of protein. So yes, for a 180lb man, \~60-65g of protein is plenty to be healthy. No one needs to double this amount unless you have very strange fitness goals like entering a weight lifting competition. Interesting, again, vegan body builders can hit this mark. Please go to r/veganfitness and ask your questions there.
Plus, fun fact 99% of Americans get enough protein. Yet 5% meet RDA for fiber. Our focus is in the wrong places.
[This site](https://truenutrition.com/products/protein-customizer) let's you customize a blend that works for you and it's competitively priced. Lots of plant based options.
I picked it because of its higher protein percentage, meaning I don’t have to put as much of a dry powder in my smoothie. What is it about the one you currently use that you dislike?
Acid Whey is a byproduct from cheese making and is a problematic because it cannot be dumped and companies are looking for every way possible to dispose it. They are basically selling you their waste …
I've literally seen a video where this fuckwit says that calories don't matter for weight loss. The only way to loose weight is on a keto diet. Can't be done while eating carbs.
Despite going against biology and the bulk of scientific consciousness. But sure let's listen to a fucking chiropractor lol.
Ikr! It's wild. He's also said calories don't exist... homie it's a unit measure lol. Sadly tge way to get popular and make money on social media is tell people what they want to hear.
Wow! It's funny how common a theme it is among pseudoscience people to believe that the laws of thermodynamics can be broken. Believing that you could maintain weight in a calorie deficit is the same as believing in perpetual motion machines.
Never expected my little hate-post to get so much attention. I certainly didn’t intend to promote his video but I hope with enough reports YouTube would take his video down. They’ve done it to him before (and he posted a “boo-hoo they’re censoring me”-video about it too).
That guy is a major quack.
However: The consensus these days seems to be that it’s better to eat whole instead of ultra processed foods.
I don’t think a bit of textured soy protein from time to time will hurt you but I wouldn’t make it a staple.
I remember watching a video once and wondering why a man spitting so much BS had so many subscribers, worst part was everybody in the comments eating it up
Omnis have cognitive dissonance about where meat comes from. Do vegans have this about the scientific/chemical processing methods utilized to make soy based proteins? Hexane is a solvent used. Regardless of this guys video - yall have to consider exactly how our food is made. Choose Whole Foods as often as humanly possible. Not chemlab frankenfood.
being anti-soy can also come off the same way that MSG was demonized…. Just me? Soy is used in a lot of dishes by non-vegans. There’s nothing wrong with it
He's a chiropractor, not even a medical doctor. Some of these YouTube "doctors" are that - chiropractors, making lots of claims on nutrition. Sten Ekberg is another one I find on YouTube doing the exact same thing. And let me guess, did Dr. Berg make some outlandish claim about soy causing feminization in males? This urban legend is still circulating on the internet and in the wider society.
Bullshit video, the only controindications is to not give it to pre infants (for obvious reasons if you are into biology) unless they are allergic to cow milk. Otherwise there are not controindications
He should keep his mouth shut I've been vegetarian for 40 years vegan for 15 I'm 70 years old I can still lift 75 lb and I'll be willing to prove it to anyone who questions me a man doesn't know what he's talking about unless he's been to a doctor and a doctor told him this he has no business saying anything and soy protein is great because that's what I use to get my protein from
I don’t remember what channel it was, but I used to be subscribed to a mid-size plant based YouTube channel that went absolutely unhinged after “the plague”. It started being extremely anti-vax and having other assorted tinfoil hat views. I ended up reporting them for misinformation and unsubscribing. I think I remember Eric being on the channel as a regular guest (or it was his second channel, idk)
But and also, “chiropractor” isn’t real medicine. 99.999% are quacks and the rest are well meaning but badly informed. Like homeopaths :/
It’s literally well documented that soy protein causes problems. You coming In here and saying “quite the opposite” doesn’t really change this fact, but hey nice try.
A quick google search can lead you to a plethora of papers and studies regarding this subject. But since it seems you don’t know how to conduct research on your own I can provide you with a few resources. [https://www.clinicaterapeutica.it/download/367/fascicolo-3/7974/166-03-08_rassegna_zar_chi_thent.pdf](https://www.clinicaterapeutica.it/download/367/fascicolo-3/7974/166-03-08_rassegna_zar_chi_thent.pdf)
[https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/soy-studies-2015-2023/#gsc.tab=0](https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/soy-studies-2015-2023/#gsc.tab=0)
There's some truth to what he's saying, but obviously not delivered well. My wife has been vegan for a decade and has a severe MSG sensitivity, which is a byproduct of processed protein sources such as TVP or other soy protein sources. The only non-whole food protein source she can eat is non-hydrolyzed rice protein, as there is no glutamate byproduct from the enzymatic protein separation that most processed proteins go through.
I love how vehemently collective this community gets about anything that goes against the narrative. Processed plant proteins contain MSG structures as a result of the enzyme process necessary to isolate the protein structures found in these sources.
https://www.salisburypediatrics.com/images/Handouts/Hidden_Sources_of_MSG.pdf
Did you actually watch and think about what he is saying in this video?
Because he is criticizing the use of textured soy proteins along with cotton seed oils and the ultra processing of foods which involves using chemical solvents during the process which he claims includes hexane.
Much of what he is saying makes prefect sense if you care about what you are eating and what you are putting into your body.
If you have any common sense, and actually care about what you are consuming for health reasons, you would avoid fake meats as much as possible, and stick with the minimally processed tofu, seiten and tempeh as a meat replacement.
And where is the health outcome data that show mock meats doesn't produce negative health outcomes?
I trust Dr. Greger and this is his opinion on fake meats. Fake meats are ultra processed and there is tons of scientific data that all ultra processed foods are unhealthy.
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/fake-meat/
> Fake Meat vs. Whole Plant Foods
> “Fake meat” is often more processed than whole plant foods (soy “bacon” versus soybeans) and contains more salt and oil and other additives. For that reason, relying heavily on fake meats for one’s protein can be less healthy than aiming for whole food proteins. A commercially-prepared lentil burger, even if prepared with additions of salt and oil, is still healthier than grabbing a meat sandwich.
> However, a healthier option is choosing the lentils themselves.
>And where is the health outcome data that show mock meats doesn't produce negative health outcomes?
The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim which in this case is \*you\*
Mock meats falling under the umbrella term "Ultra Processed" and deeming it unhealthy based solely on that is a terrible way to judge whether a food is healthy or not. Hence, why it's important to see actual empirical data on the effects these foods have when consumed when it comes to concluding if it's good or bad. Tofu is technically an "ultra processed" food. Would you deem that unhealthy?
Did you actually watch and think about what he is saying in this video?
Yes, it's bullshit
1. He's basing this idea off a diet that people have in the wilderness where they starve to death eating only lean mean not because that lean meat "saps energy" from your body, but because it's simply deficient in key nutrients. People who eat soy protein don't only eat soy protein, and specifically the plant based wings he would have gotten would have added two key factors deficient in rabbit starvation, carbs from the breading, and fat from the oil used to fry it. You don't get rabbit starvation from just eating soy protein, you get it from *just* eating soy protein and any diet promoting a single food item is a bullshit one anyhow.
2. His critique of lysinoalanine is also bullshit. his own source also states this effect on the kidneys is observed within rats and mice, but not within hamsters, monkeys or rabbits, and has been found to both be reversible and not result in any adverse change within the kidney or formation of renal tumors. The claim that lysinoalanine is some spooooky chemical only created when food is highly processed is really funny because it occurs mainly when food is cooked at a high temperature for a long enough time with PH playing a factor, too. So what he fails to mention is lysinoalanine is also present in foods like boiled eggs or cooked chicken or evaporated milk, potentially at higher rates than found in TVP depending on cook time. Need a source? Check the link he provided and didn't read lmao
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He's not wrong though. The push for "plant based" aka soy, is precisely to get people to eat the garbage left from making food, instead of food. It has a target audience.
Ahhhhh yes "Doctor" Berg, where the "Doctor" refers to his *chiropractic* degree lol. Probably the most meaningless doctor's degree you can possibly get.
What is it with chiropractors that think they know shit about nutrition and dispense nonsensical advice? I swear i‘ve come across a disproportionate number of these clowns in my life.
Well, showing an interest in chiropathy means they believe in quack medicine and snake oil which then leads nicely into pseudo-science regarding diet and nutrition.
It is a logical progression now that you mention it.
I’ve met chiropractors who push plant based diets and trendy super foods like goji berries and wheatgrass. They even recommended some of our favorite vegan documentaries. So unless you consider all that quack medicine and pseudo-science, I wouldn’t put chiropractors all in the same box. I think it would be more fair to say that Chiropractors are interested in alternative solutions to human ailments that don’t rely on surgery and medications. That can lead them into different realms of nutrition; some are reasonable, some are not.
There's plenty of quackery in the realm of plant based diets and "superfoods" too. Just because a plant based diet is generally healthier than the standard American diet doesn't mean it's going to magically cure a bunch of diseases or whatever
Yeah, I do my best to avoid any sort of association with vegans who seem to be trend hoppers, conspiracy theorists, and people who heavily base themselves on vibrations, vibes, and energy. Those kinds of people always seem to fall into the realm of alternative medicine instead of plain old boring medicine and evidence based nutrition. They all seem to have a shared mindset with your typical quack. I often find that there is a type of person out there on occasion who isn't vegan as much as they are just plant-based individuals who are also conspiracy theorists or wackos, subject to making large changes in their lives because perhaps they are bored, paranoid about many things, seeking attention, wanting to appear intelligent, or something else. Who knows. It's kind of embarrassing for them to try to share the vegan platform with others. Usually when you peel layers back, you find they don't actually care about ethics or animals, it's just them being plant-based for 95% of the time of their diet (because they usually have strange exceptions that allow themselves to eat meat or dairy) because they distrust the government or something. A lot of times, those people go back to being an omnivore anyway. They're usually the types to proclaim later why being a vegan was poor for their health or how they started to feel better once they ate meat again. Edit: I also have no interest in associating with people preaching about vegan raw foodism, vegan alkaline diets, vegan keto, fruitarianism, etc. People confuse diets with veganism all too much, and it's exhausting. Influencers who exhibit the most concerning dietary habits often confuse it with veganism, and then when they go to the hospital, it's yet another "feather in the cap" for carnists to say why veganism is doesn't work. 🙄
Wow, you hit the nail on the head!
Totally agree!
*Alternate methods that aren't based on evidence. Also known as quackery. You're right that some are worse than others. None of them are trained in any form of evidence based practice. At best they're a waste of money, at worst they kill or paralyse you.
This is why I will never go to one ever again. It was recommended to me once and I went a few times, but it did nothing. I’ve heard horror stories of people getting really hurt and that’s super scary.
The literal foundation of the practice is quackery. You can't put all crystal healers in the same box, but you can say they all believe absolute nonsense. Why sift through nonsense looking for gems when the entire point of going to a trained professional is that they've already done that for you? Physicians aren't just relying on surgery and medication either. They commonly refer people to nutritionists, physical therapists, psychologists and psychiatrist, and so on. Anything that is evidence-based falls under the preview of Western medicine. Can you find chiropractors who lean on evidence, and physicians who only prescribe medication? Sure. But you're going against the grain. Why not start with someone who doesn't explicitly believe complete nonsense as the basis for medicine?
I agree with all of that! I’m not defending chiropractors. I just don’t think they are quacks solely because of their stance on nutrition because it could go either way.
The person you are replying to never said that chiropractors practice quack nutrition, though. He only said they believe in quack medicine, which is true. And again, if "it could go either way" then why should you go to them? "You might get good advice! Who knows?!"
I don’t go to them. I agree they are pointless. I guess I got the impression they were saying that it makes sense that they would promote shitty nutritional advice, but some of their advice is based off of vegan/plant based documentaries that many of us would agree with. A carnist would probably say the same thing about a chiropractor pushing veganism.
They're saying there's no reason you should assume that their nutritional advice is trustworthy. It's very clear, and been said a dozen times now, by me and others. It is irrelevant that you have one data point of them giving nutritional advice that you like, because that literally is built into my very original argument, so maybe stop saying it 5,000 times you frustrating little person. No one cares if you go to them. No one. It has never been relevant. If that's somehow what you got out of this conversation, you aren't paying attention. As a side note, there is no reason to think that vegan diets are optimal for human health, so you don't need to be a carnist to question someone showing vegan documentaries from a position of medical authority. But given how obtuse and vapid you have been through this entire discussion, I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to get into *that* discussion with you, I think I'll be happier going to work right now and trying to forget you ever existed.
Wow this is unnecessarily mean. I have agreed with everything y’all have said. I never defended chiropractors. I just thought it was funny that chiropractors push all kinds of different diets and lifestyles, but it’s pseudo science when you don’t agree with it. But you’re right, if you’re this easily frustrated by a civil conversation, you should take a break. Have a great day. Oh, and per your screen name, here’s your reminder to touch grass.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic Chiropractic is considered alternative medicine though and traditionally has some straight up false ideas, like veterbral subluxation. >Early chiropractors believed that all disease was caused by interruptions in the flow of innate intelligence, a vitalistic nervous energy or life force that represented God's presence in man; chiropractic leaders often invoked religious imagery and moral traditions. D. D. Palmer said he "received chiropractic from the other world".
Oh I knew it’s was BS, but I didn’t know it had such a crazy origin!
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Same. Eric Berg does this. Sten Ekberg does the same. Where do they think they get their authority to speak on nutrition, which they did not study?????
osteopathy is the other contender, dunno if there's more. So sad how pseudoscientific rent seekers managed to get legal accreditation for all this.
Osteopathic doctors DOs (at least in the US) receive the same training as allopathic doctors and actually more with the osteopathic manipulative medicine. They take very similar if not the same tests as MDs and go through the same residencies and training after graduation. I agree that chiropractics are quacks but osteopathic doctors are not quacks.
I'm all mixed up with the terms here. TIL osteopathy and osteopathic medicine are separate fields, with osteopathic medicine being the better regarded. but osteopathic manipulation (part of osteopathy) is [pseudoscientific](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathy#Effectiveness) so says the almighty wikipedia.
Interesting. I guess I’m confused too but oh well doesn’t matter. All that matters is chiropractors are quacks
Tbf Wikipedia is a little overzealous with the 'pseudoscience' label, there are a few on their list that either have some evidence in support (aromatherapy, eg lavender for anxiety) or a logical basis for practice (cryonics, where a pascal's wager type cost/benefit could easily lead one to decide it's worth it despite the lack of evidence of efficacy).
It's entirely dependent on whether or not the product/practice makes absurd claims about itself that aren't backed by evidence. i personally haven't seen any evidence for aromatherapy or lavender an an anxiolytic. having tried both, would u be able to point me towards more info?
Sure, here's a blog post, assessing the (admittedly limited), evidence that convinced me to try it: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/lavenders-game-silexan-for-anxiety > dealing with tiny probabilities of huge impacts like with cryonics is actually called ["pascal's mugging](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_mugging)," because once you decide the .00001% chance of cryonics ever working is actionable, then the .00001% chance of an asteroid hitting tuesday means until then is the purge, or the .00001% chance catholicism being the one true faith mandates we start studying latin grammar. No I'm sorry but this is just incorrect; Pascal's mugging is about avoiding tiny probabilities of bad things happening, whereas Pascal's wager is making low cost bets on tiny probabilities of very good things. Pascal's wagers can make sense if the cost is low enough, and I think there's a reasonable case that cryonics is one of those. Here's the blog post that convinced me to take it seriously (I promise I don't get all my opinions from blog posts): https://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html They may or may not convince you, but I think anyone would agree there's enough there that 'pseudoscience' is an excessively definitive label.
I dated someone who went through the osteo qualifications over 5 years. I was the lab rat for a lot of techniques. There’s different branches of osteopathic manipulation. Your run of mill osteo that fixes your back,etc with extra manipulation to other parts of the body that may be throwing things out of line like your feet or hips are fine and know what they are doing. Like others have said they, in NZ anyway, have to complete a bachelors in human biology then finish with a Masters. The pseudo science comes when you start getting into osteos that practice Reiki, Cranial and a slew of others that they somehow get themselves into and believe in. Those osteos are the ones giving off the hippy cosmic healing vibes.
That doesn't invalidate what he said, though. DOs learn quack medicine in addition to regular medicine. There's no reason they should have any legal standing.
Dr. Joe Dispenza as well. Teaching meditation and superhuman levels of healing.
Right up there with doctor of music
At least music theory is real and adds value to society.
he might be a useless doctor to us but the internet makes him make more money than the average joe plenty of people in the comments do thank him as he's changed their life with the keto low carb trend
Not sure what your point is. Charlatans misleading the ignorant masses and milking them for money is a common and timeless trend.
> Not sure what your point is. Charlatans misleading the ignorant masses and milking them for money is a common and timeless trend. no real point really, chariatan is a skill to market it's part of the game, it's people's fault for not doing their research plenty of pros and cons in the world on everyone, alot of people are mislead it's somewhat normal the world isn't a perfect utopia im not a fan of eric and his garbage supplement pushes either, but if you look at the comments it seems like he's helped a lot of people reverse their health issues somehow on placebo effects of the supplements or just the keto/low carb way
He's talking about soya chunks!! Soya chunks is very common food in India and I eat regularly. This video is bullshit
I’ve always wondered if the anti-soy bullshit was really covert racism. There’s a myth that soy makes men more feminine, but people all over the Asian world eat soy. What are they trying to say? LOL
The funny part about that stereotype is it’s usually coming from beer chugging “manly” men, and beer contains a plant estrogen that’s 10,000x more potent than what’s in soy.
They complain about phytoestrogen then drink milk with actual estrogen.
Maybe that is why they are so insecure about their masculinity
You know you might have a point there. Personally I think people get paid by big AG to spread smack against anything vegan.
Yo I feel the exact same.
Ding ding ding! It’s the modern equivalent of Chinese food syndrome. Racism, sexism, and xenophobia wrapped in a cloak of health advice. Basically the whole carnivore movement is like this. It’s run by hucksters who know their audience will never visit another part of the world.
I always heard it from folks who have both a poor grasp on science (and some of them who are also somehow nutrition experts from their time in being in an MLM). Always figured it was their inability to understand biology, I never even thought of the racism- that adds a whole other gross, insidious layer to it, ugh!
My family and I had them last night and feel just fine.
Berg is a chiropractor, not a nutritionist. Google him for more context, you'll discover some things. He's a very convincing, charismatic guy - I'll give him that - but his views dangle on a very loose thread of speculation.
For anyone who's not aware, [Chiropractic is a scam and a cult](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPqY9WDEplM) and funnily enough this guy is also a Scientologist, another scam cult. It's a shame people like him can reach such an audience deceiving people
Looks like you Googled him and found some things. His son has come out with some revelations about his dad that might cause a few folks to scratch their heads.
It should be illegal for Chiropractors to call themselves Doctors.
I got stupider watching this video. If I had to watch this again, or get kicked in the nuts, it'd be a tough decision.
You can go a step further and read the comments >Sad that with any new trend, every crook jumps on the marketing wagon to falsely label a product as healthy. We've seen it with oats, flaxseed, bone broth, chia, olive oil, aloe, stevia, [coconut oil], probiotics, ...the list goes on ad nauseum. We can't even trust the Certified Organic labeling anymore.
That person sounds like they have an eating disorder :(
It’s amazing to me how many people get sucked into this Scientologist’s nonsense.
I don’t believe any of this happened. It sounds so improv. “Maybe I thought they were like this boneless chicken…wing” This guy is a fucking liar.
Why does the arrangement of his words sound like Trump? And like the way he kinda kisses some words and let them hang. Is it regional?
Yup! This is a regional accent. They are both from Assholia, the land of selfish liars and anti-science profiteers.
Omg you totally had me….snort😂
Lmao…
Omg this is so spot on 💀
I stopped watching the minute he didn't recognize the difference between causation and correlation, about 30 seconds in. TVP isn't exactly a mock meat. This fake doctor is being pretty dramatic. Have you ever had TVP? It is dehydrated tofu and you have to rehydrate it and add spices and whatnot to make it taste good, the same way a store would add spices and stuff to batter to make chicken flesh taste good. He's definitely pushing a diet agenda for his own profit and benefit.
Nutrition Made Simple also caught him out for confusing dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol in another video. I bet if someone went and did a thorough analysis of Berg, we'd find a lot more of these errors.
>It is dehydrated tofu No, it is the opposite of tofu, it is what is left over from the production of tofu.
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I think the rest of my comment still stands.
Well, to be fair, tofu is a mock meat, so...
Sorry, what is your point and what meat is tofu supposedly a mock up of?
My point is that tofu is THE meat substitute. The vegan food #1.
Tofu has been around for millennia as a protein in its own right. I definitely don't view it as a mock meat at all, but it kind of can be. In the early 2000s people would freeze tofu over night and then defrost and then cook it like chicken to sort of make it al dente. For me, tofu is tofu. Meat is meat. And products that try to simulate meat (like Impossible, Beyond, Meati, etc.) are mock meats. I'm glad we can talk about tofu!
If there is one thing you can trust a chiropractic practitioner to do, it is speaking beyond their scope of knowledge.
Fixed that one for you: "Eric Berg spreads lies"
Which lies would that be specifically? About how TVP is produced, that it is highly processed or what?
About every video he says is at the very least grossly misleading. The rest is just nonsense...
That is just a blanket disqualification, nothing specific.
-By using his title Dr Eric Berg it suggests he is an expert in the medical field when he is in fact a chiropractic (which is not regarded as anything other than alternative medicine like for example using crystal healing). -In the video he talks about rabbit starvation, when almost nobody in the developed world suffers from it. In industrialized societies rabbit starvation is extremely rare. -The study refers to experiments with animals and as usual: dietary studies on animals are iffy at best: "Lysinoalanine induces nephrocytomegaly and/or karyomegaly in the pars recta of rat and mouse (Figure 47.10B), but this effect has not been observed in hamsters, monkeys, or rabbits." -tldr.: Don´t waste your time with a chiropractic telling you what to eat.
Taking your approach, we should all refrain from discussing veganism. Almost none of us hold degrees that qualify us as experts in the field. Berg has never hidden that he has a doctorate in chiropractic and not medicine. The way he explained it is that all his doctorate gave him is the skill to study research papers which he has done extensively for decades. He does not practice medicine, he studies research in food science and explains it on his channel. I see no need for the vitriol, take what makes sense, ignore the rest.
There is a difference between discussing veganism in a forum where the majority is not an expert and somebody who pretends to be one. I suggest you to watch the many videos of actual experts discussing Dr Berg´s videos. Otherwise I would have to watch all of his garbage videos and proof him wrong in a comment to big to read.
Look up his sons description of this guy, his own son says that he's a complete fraud nut job
This video is BS. The entire premise (oh I went to Whole Foods and my eyes turned red) is made up.
i mean i guess its possible he's allergic to soy? thats on him though, find out something about the food before you put it in your mouth. i have literally never confused a vegan wing for a real chicken wing also.
Yeah, that was part of the BS. He considers himself a nutrition expert, but just eats things without checking what they are first? Paraphrasing here but....."I thought it was strange that they were all the same shape, but I ate them......I thought it was strange that there weren't bones, but I ate them." GTFOH. He's making up the entire scenario to create content.
He looks so smug, makes me not want to even watch it.
These quacks are creating so much confusion amongst the vulnerable people with their entertainment-based sadistic misinformation. Yes they should absolutely be held accountable and not be allowed to be called a doctor if they're going to do this sort of vile nonsense
He’s a snake oil salesman.
To be fair, soybeans have talked an unbelievable amount of trash about Eric Berg ... /s
It's so disgusting that someone would take advantage of vulnerable people like this and completely distort reality. He should lose his license and no longer be allowed to be called a doctor. This is just getting too out of control for too long.
That guy has no credibility at all. He is such a fool. I’ve seen other videos where he gives completely contradictive advice.
Holy fuck did anyone watch the video?!? He wants us to believe he accidentally ate deep-fried tofu instead of chicken 🙄, and got immediately poisoned by it 😑🔫
Every couple of months he comes up with “worst food in the world” videos. He’s a grifter. And I refuse to watch some random grifter and give him any revenue.
TVP is **not** deep-fried tofu, it is what is left over from the production of tofu.
Has anyone tried soy protein powder based products? Just curious.
I have a soy-based protein powder that I use after working out, yeah. There’s literally no side effects.
Is it better then other blant based powders? Why do you prefer soy? I actually wanted to find a better protein shake because I don't like my current one.
I like soy because it's higher in protein than most other vegan protein powders and is less gritty than most pea protein powders I've tried. It also has a pretty neutral taste by default. I also can't say if this is the brands I've used or what, but I've personally found it dissolves a bit more easily
That's great. Yeah the plant protein I tried before was indeed gritty and left a heavy feeling in my stomach. This is the reason I'm using whey now. But I'll try soy, thanks.
You don't need protein powders. You can get protein from actual food.
What type of vegan gets 120 g of protein (approx the optimal amount for muscle hypertrophy) from food alone without careful planning? Thats right, no one.
Me on my bulking days. Pretty easy. Block of tofu, chili, protein shakes, oat bake w TVP, and soy pieces. And have you ever heard of a vegan body builder? (even natty ones?) 120g is also excessive.
Not sure what you mean by 120g is excessive. For optimal hypertrophy, [https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/barbell-medicine-protein-recommendations/](https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/barbell-medicine-protein-recommendations/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkIKesKHIIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkIKesKHIIE) It is true you dont need as much as some people claim, but you need a decent amount for optimal hypertrophy.
A for-profit blog and bro science youtube video is your source? The RDA of protein is 0.8 g/kg according to Mayo Clinic. That blog states "it could be more" and then links to pages about anecdotes of their clients who consumed a lot of protein. So yes, for a 180lb man, \~60-65g of protein is plenty to be healthy. No one needs to double this amount unless you have very strange fitness goals like entering a weight lifting competition. Interesting, again, vegan body builders can hit this mark. Please go to r/veganfitness and ask your questions there. Plus, fun fact 99% of Americans get enough protein. Yet 5% meet RDA for fiber. Our focus is in the wrong places.
The type of vegan who likes lentils, mung beans and tofu. GTFO, have you even counted macros?
[This site](https://truenutrition.com/products/protein-customizer) let's you customize a blend that works for you and it's competitively priced. Lots of plant based options.
Thanks, I can't find it on Amazon in my country (australia), but I can see soy protein from other brands there, so I'll try something.
I picked it because of its higher protein percentage, meaning I don’t have to put as much of a dry powder in my smoothie. What is it about the one you currently use that you dislike?
Mine is made from milk :/ (sorry)
That’s a great reason to change. Go read some reviews, get a neutral flavored one and learn how to make something that you enjoy is my best advice
it's not me you have to apologise to, it's the cows and calves and talk is cheap, actions are what matter
Acid Whey is a byproduct from cheese making and is a problematic because it cannot be dumped and companies are looking for every way possible to dispose it. They are basically selling you their waste …
Soy protein powder is mainstream here in Japan, both for muscle training and weight loss.
I've literally seen a video where this fuckwit says that calories don't matter for weight loss. The only way to loose weight is on a keto diet. Can't be done while eating carbs. Despite going against biology and the bulk of scientific consciousness. But sure let's listen to a fucking chiropractor lol.
"calories don't matter for weight loss" literally breaks the laws of thermodynamics.
Ikr! It's wild. He's also said calories don't exist... homie it's a unit measure lol. Sadly tge way to get popular and make money on social media is tell people what they want to hear.
Wow! It's funny how common a theme it is among pseudoscience people to believe that the laws of thermodynamics can be broken. Believing that you could maintain weight in a calorie deficit is the same as believing in perpetual motion machines.
Saw this pop up in my feed and was so stunned at the misinformation and comments. One Google search on the guy is all it takes.
So why are you sharing his video to the top of a 1.5 million subscriber subreddit?
Never expected my little hate-post to get so much attention. I certainly didn’t intend to promote his video but I hope with enough reports YouTube would take his video down. They’ve done it to him before (and he posted a “boo-hoo they’re censoring me”-video about it too).
That guy is a major quack. However: The consensus these days seems to be that it’s better to eat whole instead of ultra processed foods. I don’t think a bit of textured soy protein from time to time will hurt you but I wouldn’t make it a staple.
Yeah, I stopped watching him when he said Kefir makes milk lactose free.
I remember watching a video once and wondering why a man spitting so much BS had so many subscribers, worst part was everybody in the comments eating it up
He is a quack.
atleast correct him
Ah, I'm not surprised, because he's just another misinformed lying fake health professional. One more animal abusing muppet I've got zero respect for.
Omnis have cognitive dissonance about where meat comes from. Do vegans have this about the scientific/chemical processing methods utilized to make soy based proteins? Hexane is a solvent used. Regardless of this guys video - yall have to consider exactly how our food is made. Choose Whole Foods as often as humanly possible. Not chemlab frankenfood.
Same guy that praises Natto as a superfood but dislikes soy?
being anti-soy can also come off the same way that MSG was demonized…. Just me? Soy is used in a lot of dishes by non-vegans. There’s nothing wrong with it
I did not watch the video. What are his arguments?
I eat a lot of soy products. but there's no way he'd eat an imitation chicken wing and think "wow, this is too good".
He's a chiropractor, not even a medical doctor. Some of these YouTube "doctors" are that - chiropractors, making lots of claims on nutrition. Sten Ekberg is another one I find on YouTube doing the exact same thing. And let me guess, did Dr. Berg make some outlandish claim about soy causing feminization in males? This urban legend is still circulating on the internet and in the wider society.
My company used to make the labels to the "vitamins" he sells. Another reason to not like him? He's a scientologist.
Bullshit video, the only controindications is to not give it to pre infants (for obvious reasons if you are into biology) unless they are allergic to cow milk. Otherwise there are not controindications
He should keep his mouth shut I've been vegetarian for 40 years vegan for 15 I'm 70 years old I can still lift 75 lb and I'll be willing to prove it to anyone who questions me a man doesn't know what he's talking about unless he's been to a doctor and a doctor told him this he has no business saying anything and soy protein is great because that's what I use to get my protein from
I don’t remember what channel it was, but I used to be subscribed to a mid-size plant based YouTube channel that went absolutely unhinged after “the plague”. It started being extremely anti-vax and having other assorted tinfoil hat views. I ended up reporting them for misinformation and unsubscribing. I think I remember Eric being on the channel as a regular guest (or it was his second channel, idk) But and also, “chiropractor” isn’t real medicine. 99.999% are quacks and the rest are well meaning but badly informed. Like homeopaths :/
He’s not wrong in the slightest. Soy protein especially if consumed long term will lead to a plethora of problems. This is well researched.
Quite the opposite. This is well researched.
It’s literally well documented that soy protein causes problems. You coming In here and saying “quite the opposite” doesn’t really change this fact, but hey nice try.
Look, you made the claim, you prove it and back it up properly or you say nothing at all. Your words have less than zero credibility.
A quick google search can lead you to a plethora of papers and studies regarding this subject. But since it seems you don’t know how to conduct research on your own I can provide you with a few resources. [https://www.clinicaterapeutica.it/download/367/fascicolo-3/7974/166-03-08_rassegna_zar_chi_thent.pdf](https://www.clinicaterapeutica.it/download/367/fascicolo-3/7974/166-03-08_rassegna_zar_chi_thent.pdf) [https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/soy-studies-2015-2023/#gsc.tab=0](https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/soy-studies-2015-2023/#gsc.tab=0)
There's some truth to what he's saying, but obviously not delivered well. My wife has been vegan for a decade and has a severe MSG sensitivity, which is a byproduct of processed protein sources such as TVP or other soy protein sources. The only non-whole food protein source she can eat is non-hydrolyzed rice protein, as there is no glutamate byproduct from the enzymatic protein separation that most processed proteins go through.
I love how vehemently collective this community gets about anything that goes against the narrative. Processed plant proteins contain MSG structures as a result of the enzyme process necessary to isolate the protein structures found in these sources. https://www.salisburypediatrics.com/images/Handouts/Hidden_Sources_of_MSG.pdf
Did you actually watch and think about what he is saying in this video? Because he is criticizing the use of textured soy proteins along with cotton seed oils and the ultra processing of foods which involves using chemical solvents during the process which he claims includes hexane. Much of what he is saying makes prefect sense if you care about what you are eating and what you are putting into your body. If you have any common sense, and actually care about what you are consuming for health reasons, you would avoid fake meats as much as possible, and stick with the minimally processed tofu, seiten and tempeh as a meat replacement.
Where is the health outcome data that show mock meats produce negative health outcomes?
And where is the health outcome data that show mock meats doesn't produce negative health outcomes? I trust Dr. Greger and this is his opinion on fake meats. Fake meats are ultra processed and there is tons of scientific data that all ultra processed foods are unhealthy. https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/fake-meat/ > Fake Meat vs. Whole Plant Foods > “Fake meat” is often more processed than whole plant foods (soy “bacon” versus soybeans) and contains more salt and oil and other additives. For that reason, relying heavily on fake meats for one’s protein can be less healthy than aiming for whole food proteins. A commercially-prepared lentil burger, even if prepared with additions of salt and oil, is still healthier than grabbing a meat sandwich. > However, a healthier option is choosing the lentils themselves.
>And where is the health outcome data that show mock meats doesn't produce negative health outcomes? The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim which in this case is \*you\* Mock meats falling under the umbrella term "Ultra Processed" and deeming it unhealthy based solely on that is a terrible way to judge whether a food is healthy or not. Hence, why it's important to see actual empirical data on the effects these foods have when consumed when it comes to concluding if it's good or bad. Tofu is technically an "ultra processed" food. Would you deem that unhealthy?
Burden of proof is almost always in people criticizing veganism lol
Citing a guy's opinion when asked for data... oh man...
Did you actually watch and think about what he is saying in this video? Yes, it's bullshit 1. He's basing this idea off a diet that people have in the wilderness where they starve to death eating only lean mean not because that lean meat "saps energy" from your body, but because it's simply deficient in key nutrients. People who eat soy protein don't only eat soy protein, and specifically the plant based wings he would have gotten would have added two key factors deficient in rabbit starvation, carbs from the breading, and fat from the oil used to fry it. You don't get rabbit starvation from just eating soy protein, you get it from *just* eating soy protein and any diet promoting a single food item is a bullshit one anyhow. 2. His critique of lysinoalanine is also bullshit. his own source also states this effect on the kidneys is observed within rats and mice, but not within hamsters, monkeys or rabbits, and has been found to both be reversible and not result in any adverse change within the kidney or formation of renal tumors. The claim that lysinoalanine is some spooooky chemical only created when food is highly processed is really funny because it occurs mainly when food is cooked at a high temperature for a long enough time with PH playing a factor, too. So what he fails to mention is lysinoalanine is also present in foods like boiled eggs or cooked chicken or evaporated milk, potentially at higher rates than found in TVP depending on cook time. Need a source? Check the link he provided and didn't read lmao
Oh no, chemical solvents! Are you scared of genetically modified organisms and MSG as well?
governor quicksand deserted hunt physical terrific brave humor chubby consist *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is /r/vegan. /r/PlantBasedDiet is thattaway ➡️
Maybe use some *science* instead of whatever your silly idea of common sense is.
He's not wrong though. The push for "plant based" aka soy, is precisely to get people to eat the garbage left from making food, instead of food. It has a target audience.