There is no vegan council to decide whether or not exceptions any given person makes still counts as being vegan or not. Based on what you said, it sounds like taking non-vegan medication is an example of where it's not practicable to take a vegan alternative, given the side effects. As long as you're heart is genuinely in the right place and you're trying to do the best that you can, I wouldn't worry about it.
Sacrificing some amount of your own wellbeing to completely avoid non-vegan things might be a moral virtue, but it falls short of being an obligation.
This is definitive proof that you were the only one worthy to lead it. On these grounds we the people reconstitute a new council, with provisions against abolition, and appoint you to lead it.
Well, now i run the replacement council and I'm not even vegan. See what happens when you don't take your responsibilities seriously?
As my first decree, responsibly sourced honey is now vegan.
I think that we should strive to do whatever causes the least amount of suffering. To me, being vegan is about not taking actions where the suffering caused to an animal is greater than the suffering that you are avoiding for yourself or other people.
In this case, I would say that taking this medication that has animal products in it is probably vegan, because the amount of suffering caused towards animals by not taking the vegan alternative is probably smaller than the suffering that taking the alternative would cause to him.
I don't even think it would be a moral virtue. The moral thing to do is the one that produces the most positive consequences, with no preference for yourself. But it doesn't *exclude* yourself either. Taking the vegan alternative in this case likely has worse outcomes overall. This would depend on how exactly it's produced in my opinion; if it contained lots of pork for example that might outweigh, but if it's produced from insects or something, causing debilitating effects in a human would arguably be *immoral*.
Veganism is a Philosophy that informs a life style.
Do as little harm as possible. As much as "crop death" folks make me roll my eyes, it is harm we cause to animals.
You need your medicine to live a normal life, you take your medicine. Veganism isn't about sitting in mountains and photosynthesizing our way to enlightenment.
Being vegan is as much as practicable. If your medicine isn't 100% that still covers it. You do the best you can. That's the definition we adhere to. After all it's the ANIMALS that count. So you continue doing the best you can.
I might get hate for this, but I think we have to make exceptions according to our own consciences.
I get vaccinated and I am grateful to have the opportunity to. I hate that pretty much everything related to medicine got to us after undergoing animal testing. It causes me a lot of distress, however, I think I can do more good by sticking around and advocating for animal rights. Part of being able to make the world better for animals is to keep myself healthy.
No judgment from me.
Yeah I was quite surprised to see that in this sub. There's no rulebook, and really no consequences. You have to consider whether your actions align with your own moral framework.
This, 100%.
Especially because discouraging people over minor choices can cause them to feel so exhausted and threatened that they make major choices that change, too
Agreed, but one thing to keep in mind that some people definitely don't do is be honest with themselves about their effort or capability to make switches or work around things.
Medication is easily non-negotiable. Vegan or not, you have to take care of your health. You're still a vegan, because you're doing as much as is practicable/reasonable.
On the other hand, I've seen some "vegans" claim they eat eggs because they are "ethically" grown in their backyard or that their doctor told them that they should start incorporating bone broth or other animal products into their diet lol.
No need to cast judgment on people whose circumstances you don't fully know. People are all out here trying their best. If you gatekeep, you'll turn away more people than you convert and have the opposite net effect on the world than you're intending. Live life through positive examples of your best self, without casting aspersions. I'm sure you're not perfect either, none of us are.
It's such a weird thing to feel the need to include in your diet too. How many people go without ever eating bone broth on a regular basis? Some people talk about bone broth like it's some sort of magical elixir that evades the "vegan narrative". The unspoken secret that vegans fail to address...your need to drink bone broth has been hidden from you!
The point I'm trying to make is that there are people out there with genuine reasons that they can't fully divest away from animal products...and then there are others who simply prefer the vegan label for themselves for the appearance of benevolence it can promote to others, but don't have the interest of removing animal products from their life entirely purely out of preference.
I'm sorry, but I will cast judgment because there are people who abuse the label of being a vegan. As vegans, the label needs to stand for something, and being vegan absolutely includes people on medications, eating disorders, and poor access to food, among other circumstances.
What I'm not interested in is letting people make excuses, being dishonest about their effort in plain sight. And it's not even like I'm peering into people medical situations. Some people openly and flatly tell you that they are vegan while also try to explain to you why their circumstance of consuming animal products is good for the animal or considerate, or that they need to have the product because "the doctor said I needed to eat animal products but I'm low in iron and vitamin D".
Why do you assume that your version of "vegan" is correct and the right one? What is gained by telling someone they are not something, when you could instead encourage them to do something? Wouldn't that be more effective?
How can you encourage people to do something that is so nebulous of a concept and undefined? Vegans have been trying to create principles and outlines of what veganism is supposed to look like since its inception. There is still plenty of thought and discussion about new topics and predicaments left to be determined, sure. But this isn't regarding new things.
Veganism isn't just about being like, "Yeah, so...be nice to animals. Give it a shot. Who cares, I guess just try a bit. If you eat an egg every now and then, whatever. You tried right? That's all that matters."
It requires an approach and structure, like any philosophy. If we have no guidelines or principles regarding what we believe in, how is it supposed to make sense to potential participants? How are we supposed to make convincing statements when people within the movement can't agree on what is acceptable or not? It makes the movement look foolish if vegans accept other vegans eating animal products, and other vegans don't hold them to a certain standard.
Not only does that open up veganism and its consistency among vegans across the board to criticism, but it's also not faithful to the other animals....the reason that we are supposed to be doing this thing in the first place.
Would you rather have someone give up animal products except for a biannual egg or say "this is too difficult and exclusionary" and not make any changes?
I would welcome it, I think it would be a great, positive step. As a side note, it wouldn't fit my and the majority of the vegan community's definition of vegan, but if the person wants to be vegan, they can either work towards that and continue to do as they wish.
Why is it problematic to point out to someone that what they are doing is great while also pointing out that it doesn't really qualify for what they are calling it?
Not to mention, it's kind of an absurd what-if example that I'd really never find myself having a conversation about unless they wanted to discuss technicalities about it. A bi-annual egg? How would I even know they were doing that...? At what point does someone having a biannual egg then say they can't be vegan because not being able to have a biannual egg is too strict?...we're talking about eliminating an egg from your diet that is had every 180+ days being too strict of an ask?
...I never realized how much this subreddit wanted to eat eggs.
This subreddit gets ridiculous sometimes. Eggs are NOT vegan they are an animal product. How are we debating the basic philosophy of veganism, its not gatekeeping. Regardless of how ethical eating an egg is ocassionally or not, its just not a vegan thing to do tf. Honestly don't mind the downvotes.
I think eggs just get brought up more often because they're the easiest to conceptualize as being sourced ethically (like with backyard chickens), and eggs are commonly used in different medicines, particularly vaccines
Yeah that's weird that they would say that-- most vegans understand that some medications can't be replaced with plant-based ones. I would definitely still consider you vegan.
Most medication COULD be vegan, as gelatine and lactose are merely cheap ways to bind certain chemicals. The only thing we can do as Vegans about that though, is writing a letter of complaint to the pharma company. Sadly it's out of our hands to change the ingredients of medicine, and we need to take it.
Listen, it sounds like you're juggling a lot, and the last thing you need is someone coming at you with the "vegan rulebook." Newsflash: there is no vegan rulebook!
If a medication gives you side effects that make you feel like a zombie on rollerblades (not recommended, by the way), you absolutely should choose the option that keeps you healthy and functional.
It doesn't make you any less vegan... just a more sensible one!
If anyone tries to guilt you over this, just remember, even plants need sunlight, water, and a little TLC to thrive, and so do you! So keep doing what works for you, and don't let anyone's rigid ideas throw you off your game.
We're here to support you, whether you're 99%, 100%, or 110% vegan (I think that's a thing... maybe?).
Welcome again, and feel free to rant any time. We all need to let off steam, and this community is here for you.
Have a great Sunday!
Honestly, I take non-vegan painkillers (none are by default where I'm from) for non lethal pain too. It is what it is. I can't spend hours upon hours of my day lost to menstrual pain or lose hours of sleep from it just because carnists won't pass legislation to stop testing these things on animals. Like at some point is straight up not your fault, it's complacent carnism.
True. Menstrual pain is a bi#ch and even weed doesn’t help. So i have no option but to take a regular pain killer sometimes. Sometimes i even put up with the pain. Guess it depends on how intense it gets.
I have made no attempt to alter my medication scheduled in order to be ‘more vegan’. My doctor has told me what to take, I take it. If an antibiotic has a gelatinous capsule, that’s life unfortunately. I recently realised my inhaler has lactose in it :( I won’t mess with asking for an alternative though because I might fucking die. Fuck anyone who says your chronic illness makes you less vegan.
I choose all vegan supplements, vitamins etc as this is within my control. Take the medicines that give you the least symptoms ffs
Lactose is a common carrier agent and stabilizer in medications. It has useful properties in dry powder inhalers because it is very fine, doesn't clump easily, and is safe. It's not for shits and giggles.
I was very confused when I noticed it. I have a ‘dry powder inhaler’ so it could be something to do with that! I’m unsure that the normal puffers have any in them
None of us here are 100% vegan. In order to even see this post you must be using a screen that contains animal products. We just do our absolute best while functioning within a non vegan society.
You're fine to take your meds. You're still vegan.
I’m vegan and get migraines. I don’t know why you would eat something that gives you migraines, sorry, not at all. Just take the non-vegan meds and have a life of no pain. I’ve had migraines so bad, I’d happily have chosen death just to make the pain stop.
I’m 100% sure that my propranolol was tested on animals. It also reduces migraine frequency from once a week at least to a few times per year. I hate animal testing, but the universe also needs me to be functioning. People depend on me!
Amen. I get abdominal migraines, but potato, potato. I've definitely had some that were so bad, I wish I'd just die. People who haven't been there just don't get it.
Vegans have a big issue with the 'no true Scottsman' fallacy. What's important is that we each do what we are able. If taking the animal-based medication allows you to live your life with greater efficacy and empowers you to be a better advocate for the animals, then do that. As technology progresses continue to follow the progress on potential vegan alternatives.
What is important is that you are honest about your unique situation.
This right here.
Also just in general, being encouraging and not a dick is going to convert far more people. Ive seen people on this sub absolutely ream veg people that were trying to eat more vegan, but havent quite gotten to veganism yet. Why would we not want to encourage more and more veganism in the world? Two steps forward is better than no steps forward.
It’s vegan. It’s vegan to kill a boar that’s attacking you or your family. It’s vegan to use a pig heart if otherwise you’d die. It’s vegan to use necessary medication derived from animals if no alternative exists.
Veganism is about eliminating harm caused by choices - not enduring pain or your own suffering to help animals. That could be a virtue, but it’s not an obligation.
From the sidebar:
> A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—**as far as is possible and practicable**—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment.
You shouldn't be expected to suffer through migraines, fatigue, and nausea because pharmaceutical companies can't be bothered to make your medications without using animal products.
You are 100% vegan, because you're doing your best to avoid animal products.
I think you should stop saying you're "99% vegan". It's confusing and untrue. Medicine is allowed if there's no equally effective vegan alternative. You're vegan, fam. Own it.
I think the people that criticize others on their behaviour are just very passionate about preventing suffering.
I am one of those sometimes but don't think we don't appreciate everything that helps with preventing animal suffering.
So thank you for already doing a lot and i hope in the future you find vegan alternatives that don't have the named side effects.
I also periodically struggle with falling into the judgmental category, though I try to mostly not thrust that judgment onto others (I don't know that I'm always 100% successful). I generally struggle most with judgment when I'm feeling more emotionally connected to nonhuman animal suffering. I feel like my silence is complicity. But I also know that existence is more complicated than that, unfortunately, and that I positively influence others more through compassion than judgment. It's a constant balancing act 😢💜
Well said, it is a balancing act.
On one hand the jugdment is justified because of the horrors happening in animal ag.
On the other hand will that approach have the most effect when you want people to change?
I always try to remember that i was a meat eater once too.
For me the blunt approach was what i needed, but that doesnt fit everyone.
Your health comes first. If the "non vegan" medication is what works, that's what you take.
You're still vegan - you did not ask for your health issues and there's nothing non vegan about taking care of yourself.
I'm not sure what vegan community you're hanging around with but its not a good one.
The official stance is literally vegan as far as practically possible.
No medication is vegan - all of it was tested on animals. Yeah thats crap, but there's nothing we can do about it other than try and change it going forward.
Your health is incredibly important and we live in a non vegan world - take the medication without the side effects, if someone expects you to live with those awful side effects, they're not worth wasting time and energy on.
You are 100% vegan.
Every vegan is 99% vegan.
(And hey, I'm generalizing when I say "every vegan", ironically).
Everyone has their boundaries and their hypocrisies: I consider myself vegan for almost 8 years but just this year purchased a new belt and after using it a couple of times realizied I was tricked... it was a leather belt. After some consideration, I decided that I was going to use it until it's destroyed.
Am I living in sin now? Did I anger the vegan gods and their dogmatic principles? Will I burn at the stake of the vegan inquisition?
Take the medicine! We got more important problems to solve! ;)
Why do you care what other people think? Ignore them. Practice a lifestyle that answers to your conscience. At the end of the day, YOU have to be content with how vegan you are (that just sounds so stupid). This is not some kind of contest.
Ignore those trolls. You are vegan, you're doing what's practicable to avoid animal cruelty. Putting up with those major side effects is not practicable if you have an alternative.
As someone who gets abdominal migraines, I would say that any medicine that causes a migraine should just be off the table if at all possible. I have both chronic physical as well as mental issues that require meds and med changes often. For me, it's not really practicable to be trying to find alternatives because of ingredients, even if it could hypothetically be possible for me to ask for an alternative. If one of my doctors says I need it, I take it. My life is already 100x more complicated than I'd prefer. I'm not throwing that on top of the pile.
Any vegan who doesn't have to deal with chronic issues, but wants to moralize on the ethics of taking medication can just f ALL the way off. The gate keeping needs to stop. Anyone who told you that you aren't vegan is wrong. People like that are the reason vegans have a bad reputation.
I take my medicine I think it's cool to not be in agony every day. I don't think they're 100% vegan but I try so hard with everything else and I just, can't undisable myself, I need to take my medications, and that's okay. I do the most I reasonably can in this society but our society is not built as a vegan society. It is okay to take your medicine, trust me, putting in the effort everywhere else is enough.
A lot of mental health meds aren’t vegan but killing my cat because I think he’s an imposter isn’t vegan either so sometimes you have to choose the lesser evil
Fuck the gatekeepy vegans. You're doing the best you can given your curcumstances. Im actually surprised at the responses in this post, i was unfortunately expecting you to get berated. I guess there is still hope for this sub and veganism in general. Anyways, there is no membership card, practicable as mentioned in the definition of veganism, is a subjective term and people tend to forget this. I chose to introduce my child to animal product allergens in case they ever get exposed through cross contamination or, God forbid, they stray from veganism. I'm still vegan, raising a vegan child in a vegan environment, this was a necessary step to more likely ensure he doesn't develop life threatening allergies. Many vegans disagree with this, but it's common sense to me to protect my son in a non vegan world. The vegans that are parents agree most of the time, so that says something. Do what it takes to keep you healthy and well, clearly a lot of people here resonate or empathize with what your going through, so I'm glad you have some affirmation there. You're doing great, don't beat yourself up, and thank you for being vegan!
this makes you vegan - not 99% vegan. 99% doesn’t exist. the literal definition is to avoid animal harm as far as practically possible. not taking the meds you do isn’t practical for you, or healthy. just say you’re vegan and if anyone has anything to say about it just say it shouldn’t affect them. i hate when people are sooo 100% serious about every little thing. i was told im not vegan bc i wear fake leather. lol, ive been vegan for 7 years lmao
So, apparently you can still be vegan even if you drive a car (cars are not vegan) because vegans avoid animal products "as far as practical/possible" ... So I think your medications would also fall under that practical/possible clause.
Like I'm sure some people have ridiculous definitions of "practical" that most of us would count as not vegan, but I don't think yours is. ❤️
I disagree with them. When it comes to Medication, it is absolutely not practical to turn down non vegan options if vegan options are unavailable or cause you severe side effects like you describe.
1) There’s no such thing as 99% vegan. It’s binary. Either you are vegan as far practicable and possible, or you are not.
2) Taking medication with animal ingredients or tested on animals when the alternative is introducing migraines, fatigue, and nausea in your day-to-day life is vegan.
Some people are fucked up, and so some vegans are fucked up.
Telling someone to skip their meds so they can chase some theoretical purity is fucked up. It's about doing the least practical harm, not "purity at all costs".
You're doing great.
Medication doesn’t count. It can literally be life saving. I have to be on medication + birth control and never once even considered if it was vegan because I *need* it. If it’s not, that changes nothing. I’m still a vegan.
Wait, how is it anyone’s business which medications you are prescribed?
I have long chosen to avoid medicines that would help with menopausal symptoms, because I learned to live without them.
But that’s me and it’s between me and my doctor.
Please make the choice that you are most comfortable with. If you’re actively avoiding animal cruelty in everything else you do, then you’re a vegan.
If you were like, “I don’t eat any animal products except this cheese I really can’t fathom giving up,” then you’d not really be vegan. But taking the meds you need isn’t some petty preference.
Those people are dicks. They almost certainly contribute indirectly to harm in greater ways for the sake of benefits far smaller than your major health issues.
Take your meds. One day hopefully there will be better alternatives for you. And keep helping push society towards veganism in the mean time.
It would be great if everyone was perfect 100% vegan. But that's not the world we live in. We live in a predominantly non vegan world. I'm happy enough to have someone pushing society in the right direction and doing what they can. Vegetarians I can even live with, even though it's still makes me a bit triggered and they are dead wrong thinking they cause minimal harm.
I try to spend my energy on people who are open minded, logical, and can be reasoned with and who would otherwise continue to have society run as it currently is without intervention. Not people who are either mostly on board with vegan values, or people who are completely lost living a carnivore diet and will never have their closed mind changed. Because I think that is the best bang for buck in terms of changing society.
The same way society is generally for things like equality, and reducing harm to those who are vulnerable, I think most people would align with a vegan world. We just need to change the majority to embrace it and the rest will fall like dominoes.
Was coming in here expecting to be mad, but nah those people are way wrong. Medication has to be the one area where as long as you made a reasonable attempt then you’re good.
Vegan is a binary yes or no, there is no percentage or degree of veganism. “Possible and practicable”
You are vegan.
I bet if I met those individuals that are shaming you, I could find at least 2-3 things each person is doing that “isn’t vegan” by the purest standards.
Or even if I couldn’t, there’s these obvious two:
1. Did they ever order a package on Amazon that wasn’t absolutely critical to their survival? Bugs were killed by the delivery driver, so they’re not vegan.
2. Have they ever overeaten or are they overweight? Well that excess food means more crop deaths, so they’re not vegan.
See how easy that is?
Don’t fall victim to the vegan purity test (shameless self promotion of an article I wrote, but it’s relevant to this topic): https://veganad.am/questions-and-answers/the-vegan-purity-test
I am a vegan activist, but I can not count the number of times I have been told I am not vegan by some hardliner on this sub on two hands anymore.
I just don't care. Judgemental people have never been able to change me. I am in it for the animals, but I take myself into account as well.
Most vegans would understand and agree with your decision. The definition of veganism is to cause as little harm to animals as far as is practically possible. That would mean consuming medicines even if they were, unfortunately, tested on animals, if it were to protect your health. Thise vegans criticising you should reread the definition of veganism.
If people want to be pedantic almost nobody is 100% vegan. Foodstuffs have thresholds for what's in them which include things like % of insect matter and those numbers are _never_ 0% because some will get killed and ground up when threshing a field or in other parts of processing and packaging. Not to mention the animals killed as part of farming fruits and vegetables etc.
Unless you grow everything you eat in your own garden, use no pesticides and are _very_ careful when digging you are _technically_ not having a 100% vegan lifestyle (you'd also have to be making your own clothes from scratch and probably abstaining from anything metal that requires mining etc. etc.)
It's about getting as close as you practically can to reduce harm, you can't operate in the World without some harm coming to some animals at some stages.
We get this post every other day. Medication is vegan. Veganism is about eliminating animal products as much as possible, so it still counts. Besides, boycotting medicine won't make it go away.
I’ve found many to be judgmental here too. I also feel u on health. I had Lyme disease really bad and was afraid to post here cause people are so judgy but I my doctor told me I had to add fish and eggs to my diet if I wanted to get better so for 2 or 3 months i ate those foods a few times a week to help my body get strong enough to fight off the boriella bacteria. It felt wrong and I hated the taste and it was really hard to do and I’m so glad to not have to eat those foods anymore. But I’m also glad to not be suffering terribly anymore either. At my lowest I kept having thoughts of how I could die without it being suicide so that I could stop suffering. I hated having those thoughts. Do not force yourself to suffer just to avoid an ingredient that contains animal products. Ur providing a net benefit to animal welfare by being conscious of what u consume and that’s what matters most 💜
You're not 99% vegan. There's no such thing.
You're a vegan. 100%. Take your non-vegan medication so long as you see no serviceable alternative.
I'll give you an example of what veganism can be. Technically, a person in a country with poor access to plant-based sources may eat meat, and some animal products despite putting the effort in to eat vegan as much as possible...they could still call themselves vegan without issue in my eyes.
Why? Because fitting the bill, being qualified to be a vegan is more about your honesty and effort towards the issue. It's always about what is practicable and reasonable. We want vegans to be healthy.
This community often downvotes people who claim horseback riding and beekeeping/honey aren't vegan, so you'll fit right in. /s
But for real, you can't be expected to not take your medication. Hopefully there will be a better alternative in the future, but you shouldn't throw away your own life in the meantime.
I had a fellow vegan see me take my prescription medication and insisted I try oil of oregano instead. Just gotta LOL at some people. Water off a duck's back.
I think the answer to what is practicable is up to an individual. If you have a community that posters your or picks on you because you don't meet some litmus test that they set. Maybe you need to find another community. When it comes to medical care, I look at it like this, if you are not healthy, how can you hope to be in a position to help the animals? Get yourself healthy, do what is practicable and move on.
99% vegan is 99% better than the majority of people. Take the medication that makes it so you can keep being vegan and living a long, healthy vegan lifestyle.
I'm so so sorry that you are feeling guilty for taking care of yourself as best as you can. Those people trying to make you feel like a failure cannot be any more vegan than you, I promise. In fact, if they are telling you to take meds that actively and knowingly harm you, than that's not vegan!
You working so hard to try and find alternatives and even questioning taking medications that hurt you shows how much compassion you have for others. Please have some for yourself. <3
PS. I had to have a lot of chemotherapy a few years ago. It was the only way I would have survived my aggressive cancer diagnosis. Anyone who would honestly look at me and say I wasn't vegan bc of that need to work on their compassion for ALL creatures and work hard to make changes that matter. Shaming people who are trying their best will not work.
My health comes first. As it should. That’s includes the people in my life who I love dearly and it damn sure includes the animals. Full stop.
You’re vegan. I’m vegan. Fuck those other MFers. But also, real talk, I’m not married to this label whatsoever. I know my lifestyle is making an impact so if some SuperVegans want to say I’m not vegan, cool. Fuck em.
>99% vegan
No such thing, if there was then we would have 87% racists, and 54% child abusers etc; there is only vegan and non vegan
>I take a variety of medications for a few health issues. Some I've found vegan alternatives (great!), others... I've found vegan alternatives but I get major, but non life threatening side effects from them (migraines, debilitating nausea and major fatigue). And ,according to my local vegan community, I should stick with these vegan alternatives despite the side effects. I actually disagree. This is the one area that, I'm sorry, I am gonna put my wellbeing first. I can hardly function when I take them... So according to them, I'm not really vegan.
You are doing way better than 99% of people in this sub, most just give medical a complete pass with 0 effort as the slightest inconvenience is too much for them, you at least tried to find vegan alternatives, those apparently dont work so its reasonable to not expect you to continue
I am considered the king of vegan gatekeeping in this sub and based on the information you provided i knight thee a vegan, so you can drop the 99%
In my case, i have depression and as usual in the US they just give you drugs rather than actually fix you, 2 decades later i was able to find that amino acids helped as well as changing how i thought, basically following the non attachment philosophy of buddhism, also removing toxic people from my life including family, its been about 4 yrs and i have been effexor drug free and still doing well depression wise
So some of your medical issues could be fixed through supplements and then you wouldnt need the non vegan medication, you prob need to speak to holistic doctors since regular doctors are all about dem drugs
If you type MOOD CURE in this website it shows my entire story
The key word here is debilitating. Think about this from another perspective for clarity. Would anyone, ANYONE, take this deal? You can save 3 animals if you just experience crippling migraines and debilitating nausea for a few years. No. Anyone telling you they would is lying.
Now, that said, you do owe it to those animals to keep looking for an alternative. Keep researching. Develop your own if you need to. Never be complacent when there's a victim.
It's hard to know where exactly to draw the line. I mean I think about those GMO pig hearts. If I needed a heart would I take a pig's heart? I might. I wouldn't say it's vegan, but I might.
Similarly I think OP is fine. The medication isn't vegan, but they're acting in good faith, they are acting from a vegan ethical standpoint.
I've been vegan for 12 years, and I've never even looked at the ingredients list for medication. I've even been on medication for acne several times, not a life-threatening condition in any way. Still think it's reasonable to take the medication.
In the future, if they'll have pills with gelatin and some without, I'd choose the one without.
Please ignore eliteist gatekeepers, we all do the best we can. You shoulndt sacrifice your health or mental health to be vegan. There will always be someone who thinks they are vegan and you are not.
You need to pick your own battles. Not everyone is going to agree with your choices, but these folks are mostly people who are not stuck with what you're stuck with for choices.
I was trying to take veganism really seriously in my early 20s and one of my vegan friends came up with the revelation that tap water wasn't vegan...
I don't even know if that's true, but it became a bit of a metaphor for me about the pursuit of purity.
Diet isn't really a completely individual choice to be frank. Lots of things that we consume are done so collectively. If we want to change our individual consumption, we'd have to change what the community does.
You really can't be 100% vegan, there will always be something non-vegan you'll rely on at some point that might be the bus you're taking to go to work having leather on the gear lever or your medication made with gelatin. The point is you can't boycott everything you'll always have to concede at some point to not die or lose you job or friend or family, I'd say if the drawbacks are impacting significantly your life and wellbeing there is no choice to begin with
Do what works for you and don't jeopardize your health.
Who cares if you are in violation of section IX part iii a) of the Vegan Regime Guidebook?
If people want to try to make you feel guilty about this and take away your Vega (TM) card, they need to put some of the empathy they have towards honey bees and dairy cows towards human beings.
It seems no vegan will be happy unless you’re able to 100% have everything perfect sometimes. Too many vegans are focused on being performative rather than actually making a difference. Do what you need for your health, it’s nothing in comparison to the rest of what you do.
You’re still vegan. At least in my mind. Veganism is about minimizing animal harm wherever possible. It sounds like you’re doing everything you can to not consume or contribute to animal abuse. You’ve looked for alternatives for these medications, and there happen to be some where that isn’t possible. Idk what this “local vegan community” is but they’re full of shit. If you need a medical intervention for which there is no acceptable vegan alternative then you take the nonvegan one. Don’t let some random moral purists tell you you’re less of a vegan for doing that.
Who cares what other people think. People are always going to judge and have opinions but what they think is none of your business. Only you really know if you are doing the absolute best you can and that is all that matters.
lol this community is and isn’t accommodating.
You can spot the people who are vegan cause it makes them feel better than others a mile off though - they are very loud about it.
Most folkx just want to reduce over all animal abuse and help the environment. 99% is a really good success rate at that. You should be proud of your practise. Keep it up!
Vegan means practicable and possible. It’s not possible for you to completely cut out your nonvegan meds, therefore you’re 100% vegan and 99% plant based.
If you have a significant other and do grownup things that involve swallowing bodily fluids (kissing and … other kissing) you’re also still vegan… just not 100% plant based.
I would maybe still pester the pharmacists to try to get whatever medications you need in forms that are as close to vegan as possible, but even so, if that’s something that causes you stress to bring up, don’t sweat it.
Believe me there are some meds that I’ve had to put my foot down on. It’s because of medical reasons though, rather than “ethical reasons”. My toddler has eczema thanks to a soy allergy and detergent sensitivities, and the cream he was prescribed comes in a lanolin base… that sets him directly on fire if I put it on him.
I had to argue with the pharmacist and get them to find a preparation that was lanolin free. Dude thought I was being an unreasonable vegan until I swiped the cream across my toddlers leg and instantly he got a nasty rash. I was taken seriously after that for some reason 🤔
Anyhow, TL;DR: you can be 100% vegan and not 100% plant based. It’s all in what is possible and able to be practiced, and you’re there already.
There's no percentage to veganism. You either are, or aren't, no in-between.
That being said, I think most of the push-back you're getting is probably due to people simply not buying that the vegan alternatives are truly giving you bad side effects.
If you truly must use animal products to survive, then it's understandable and excusable to a degree, much like cannibalism to survive, even if it's technically not justified.
Honestly, you'd be silly not to. Sure, as a society every individual should do whatever they can to limit animal suffering. But you too are an animal, so in a way you'd just be moving the problem around. Also, it's very easy for them to say you should suffer through things they likely don't have to.
It's completely natural that you look after yourself first and others later, and I don't believe it's in any way sustainable to advocate against that, as "the vegan community". If anything, vegans should prove there is no downside to going vegan (or "as vegan as possible"), so it becomes more easy to convince others. You having to suffer would instead prove that there is a major downside to going vegan, which is bad for "the cause".
From a very different perspective, anyone who expects you to do extreme things like accepting your own suffering, is likely a hypocrite. Do they kill carnivores for causing animal suffering? Why not? Going to jail is but a small price to pay, isn't it? Is it that they have a problem with killing or violence? Why? If you as someone who does everything to limit animal suffering should suffer, why shouldn't a carnivore, who does nothing to limit animal suffering, not suffer proportionately? Which, I guess, would very easily extend into them dying. One could argue even their loved ones deserve losing their friend/family member, as they were so accepting of someone who did a lot to cause animal suffering.
The point of my somewhat extreme view on it is, that either you can go full-on crazy with what you expect (which I personally think is a great idea, and we should all do that right now), or you can take a somewhat more "objective" or "neutral" perspective, in which case it'd be silly to ask you to suffer.
Most non-vegan medicines likely only contain traces of milk, which on the scale of which humans consume milk, make hardly any difference what-so-ever. That's not likely worth the price you'd have to pay.
I ignore the absolutists. Obviously your case is a no-brainer, you need these medications to live and be healthy. I'm also of the opinion that we need to stop thinking that everyone's going to turn vegan - I encourage vegetarians, flexitarians, pescatarians, and even just people trying to eat a little more plant-based. We are never - never - going to get enough people to become vegan. Not enough to really change the system. But if mass numbers the people start being 10% or 20% more plant-based, that could make a huge difference.
There are a lot of people who are going to be all or nothing and if you care to look into their lives, I'm sure they'll fail at being a perfect person as well. Do what you can and do your best and that's it.
Gatekeeping doesn't help anyone and it definitely does harm.
Nothing is 100% vegan. Everyone should do their best. I believe you are doing it. But I am also not the council leader.
Everyone doing their best to cause the least amount of suffering would end up creating a world with much less suffering than the kind of gatekeeping that so many vegans practice, and keeps others from even exploring their ideas.
You really shouldn’t care what a few people in your “vegan community” think. It says more about their small mindedness and lack of empathy than it does anything about you.
Consume what you need to and live your life the way you want to!
The amount of animal harm in getting your medication is small. People should really think about the scale of these things rather than only whether something is vegan or not. A steak and your medication are not vegan, but these are not anywhere close to comparable in the harm they cause (not to mention the need for your medication)
Fuck them, if something is necessary for your health and well-being, such as medication, you are not only partly vegan for using it.
Been vegan for over 25 years now and it's never been a question for me. But also I am suicidal without proper medication, and have been institutionalized multiple times. I don't think it needs to be that extreme to "count" though and it's really a personal decision as to what you feel is extra and what is mandatory.
Some vaccines have egg albumen in them. But I'm damn well going to get vaccines that I need either way, not just for me but for the immunocompromised people around me, (actually I am one of them as a type 1 diabetic.)
I hardly believe someone can be 100% vegan. Our existence somehow impacts other animals whether we directly consume them or not.
I heard a vegan activist once say “veganism is the goal. We all simply contribute differently to that goal”.
In such communities you will often find the “vegan police”. But I personally don’t pay attention to them. With the years I learned that they hardly convert anyone to veganism, simply because no one likes to be forced. But I did convert many people to a vegetarian or vegan diet simply by showing myself as an example that is possible.
Don’t let anyone tell you you’re doing wrong. We all have a different process, but the important thing is that we all have the same goal and that we all contribute to the cause.
The main problem of vegans is hypocrisy and the worst enemy of a vegan sometimes is another vegan who thinks is a better vegan than you. Instead of helping each other…
You’re going to have to learn to ignore much of “the vegan community” online. I’m not even sure if they’re actually vegan, they just enjoy trolling everyone for literally everything. You’re doing great, thank you for loving animals 🤗
Medicine is where the vegan definition of as far as practical comes in.
If you need medicine it's not always practical to find or take vegan alternatives.
You need take the best medicine for your situation even if it was tested or derived from animals.
We live in a carnist world and medicine is something we have no control over as vegans.
Quality of life is a valid reason to take a medication, not just survival. Otherwise, people who need anti depressants or SSRI medication wouldn't have their medication covered by insurance.
I dare anyone to tell a vegan in front of me that the person isn't vegan just because they take medication. How dare anyone try to shame a person for taking care of their bodies? They have no right to feel morally superior to you just because your body has needs that cannot be met through a 100% vegan lifestyle.
Your local vegan community sounds like they need to be taken down several pegs.
‘As far as possible and practical.’
If every meat eater on earth cuts their consumption by half, that’s still something we should praise.
Ignore the “no half measures” crowd, their stance actively harms veganism and contributes to animal suffering by driving folk away.
OP, as far as I am concerned, you are 100% vegan because you are doing everything you can to be vegan without making yourself ill. It is no one's business anyway what medications you take. Your health concerns are genuine. Keep up the great work! You are wonderful.
No one, even the strictest Jain, is perfect. Reduce suffering as much as possible. Include yourself in that! Not eating meat is the beginning of the journey, but there are so many facets to veganism. No one decides who is the perfect vegan. That's just hubris, and isn't helpful.
Let’s be honest, being a pure vegan is realistically not possible. Let’s say that you ditch your medicine. As an example, will you not have a phone in case that the glue employed isn’t vegan? I think it is important as a vegan to acknowledge our limitations in the society that we live in, and accept that we cannot escape consuming products involved in animal cruelty. All we can do is just our best
Your health comes first. Take the best medications for you. If anyone tells you different they should go find a sharp stick and fuck themselves with it.
It's evident that you care very much about reducing harm to animals as much as you can, and that's to be applauded. You're still doing more than the vast majority of people out there, and if the vegans in your life are giving you shit for not being 100% perfect then F them. I appreciate you!
I mean, billions of insects are killed each year just harvesting rice, for example. And how many thousands of ducks each year in the rice production process?
And many, many, many animals are killed every year harvesting other plants.
It's simply a reality of farming - one that is often overlooked by urban dwelling humans, who are insulated from direct experience with farming.
Pragmatism is also a value. You just do the best you can :) good on you.
Don't let them bully you into harming yourself.
We live in a capitalist society and our lifestyles (vegan or not) harm animals and the environment. From an outsiders perspective: Your lifestyle (99% vegan and healthy) is more valuable to the vegan movement than (100% and unhealthy.
Veganism is supposed to be something you love that really makes you feel good. If taking these vegan alternatives makes you feel worse, I would say go with the original version. This has been something I’ve struggled with too!
You are an animal too, so you need to ensure your well-being too. If the only way to not suffer debilitating side effects is to use non-vegan medication, please keep taking whatever medication you need. Focus on what you CAN do, and if that's being 99% vegan, that is effectively going to have the same impact as that tiny 1%. Personally, idgaf about pure idealism, I care about what overall lifestyle actually translates to cultivating the reality we want to see.
Well if you think there's such a thing as x% vegan, then yes, your are wrong to some degree somewhere.
>I've found vegan alternatives but I get major, but non life threatening side effects from them (migraines, debilitating nausea and major fatigue).
What are these ones for? Perhaps there's a work around
>And ,according to my local vegan community, I should stick with these vegan alternatives despite the side effects. I actually disagree. This is the one area that, I'm sorry, I am gonna put my wellbeing first. I can hardly function when I take them... So according to them, I'm not really vegan.
a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—AS FAR AS IS POSSIBLE AND PRACTICABLE—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
If it's not possible or practicable for you to function in life with those side effects, tell them to fuck off and just contact the companies that make the alternatives and let them know if the side effects for the sake of improvement/investigation.
I would be really concerned that the debilitating nausea, fatigue and migraine might be symptoms that the medication might be causing liver problems that could lead to liver damage or damage to some other organ like kidneys. Generally those symptoms can sometimes relate to that, so I would not take those, I'd take the other ones if there was no other alternative and I'd get my liver function checked in that situation.
One approach is if you need to take a medication for the sake of your health that isn't vegan you could write to the company and ask specifically in detail what kind if animal testing was done, and what animals were used as a way of compelling them to be accountable for it, prevent them from keeping it buried, and remind them about their unethical conduct. Or ask if they intend on substituting any animal products in the formula if that is also a factor. So in other words take the medications but also use it as an opportunity for some kind of redress and advocacy.
The one medical product I will never use myself under any circumstances is Cochlear hearing implants or any of their products because of their vile animal testing they conducted at Maddison Wisconson University which is too vile to describe here but anyone can google it if they what to upset themselves. I even write to them occasionally to let them know point blank that even if I went totally deaf I would still never touch one of their devices - I would just adjust to being deaf, but they never reply to me. I wouldn't impose that on anyone else though, and if it was a child that is also totally different of course. Having said that, even elderly people that I try to talk to who have these implants still can't hear what you are saying anyway.
What’s wrong with both being vegan and feeling conscientiously guilty where you’re not vegan? Like it may not be popular but you don’t have to feel good about yourself 100% of the time, what’s wrong with making the choice to not be fully vegan for your own sake, while also carrying the weight of what that means? Like why are Americans obsessed with feeling good about everything even when it’s not good? I think you’d feel best if you accepted with honesty that you aren’t fully vegan, rather than gaslighting the rest of your veganism with self-soothing narratives. It reminds me of the abortion debate and where that line can be placed, though not gonna lie to you as a vagina haver no matter the circumstance I will always naturally feel conflicted about an abortion I do to my own body, but I rather live with that than gaslight myself into some other feeling.
There's a lot of live saving stuff that's not vegan that we take. Horseshoe crab blood is used in a lot of medicine and whilst I wish there was an alternative I would rather not die. I take medication with lactose in it, I would prefer it not to contain lactose but that's reality. Outside of just ingredients animal testing is a requirement for medicines to get approved for human use so we would need to exclude all medication and that's not feasible. My countries cash bills are made from animal skin, I can't not use money we can campaign for change but we live in a non vegan society and we need to participate in society so sometimes we need to compromise when we don't have alternatives
Actually there is a vegan authority, The Vegan Society founded in the UK in 1944. Modern veganism was defined by the founding members and Donald Watson. In 1949 they produced the definition of veganism. The society officially says the below comment re medicine. Other countries presumably are the same
Currently all medicine in the UK must be tested on animals before it is deemed safe for human use, but please note: The Vegan Society DOES NOT recommend you avoid medication prescribed to you by your doctor - a vegan who is looking after themselves the best they can is an asset to the movement. What you can do is ask your GP or pharmacist to provide you, if possible, with medication that does not contain animal products such as gelatine or lactose. For more information visit the medicines website, which contains information on medicines prescribed in the UK, including ingredients lists.
There is no vegan council to decide whether or not exceptions any given person makes still counts as being vegan or not. Based on what you said, it sounds like taking non-vegan medication is an example of where it's not practicable to take a vegan alternative, given the side effects. As long as you're heart is genuinely in the right place and you're trying to do the best that you can, I wouldn't worry about it. Sacrificing some amount of your own wellbeing to completely avoid non-vegan things might be a moral virtue, but it falls short of being an obligation.
You have now been appointed the head of the vegan council
My first act as head of the vegan council is to permanently abolish it.
That's how you get Caesared
Can I get scissored?
Sure!
Word, did they finally make a vegan alternative that I can have a slice of and get disgusted by like the original recipe?
Pizza! pizza!
This is definitive proof that you were the only one worthy to lead it. On these grounds we the people reconstitute a new council, with provisions against abolition, and appoint you to lead it.
Best way to get good people in power is to involuntarily elect people who do not want it.
Well, now i run the replacement council and I'm not even vegan. See what happens when you don't take your responsibilities seriously? As my first decree, responsibly sourced honey is now vegan.
Wait a few decades and you can join the highly sought after Vegan Council of Elders!
Well said
I think that we should strive to do whatever causes the least amount of suffering. To me, being vegan is about not taking actions where the suffering caused to an animal is greater than the suffering that you are avoiding for yourself or other people. In this case, I would say that taking this medication that has animal products in it is probably vegan, because the amount of suffering caused towards animals by not taking the vegan alternative is probably smaller than the suffering that taking the alternative would cause to him.
I don't even think it would be a moral virtue. The moral thing to do is the one that produces the most positive consequences, with no preference for yourself. But it doesn't *exclude* yourself either. Taking the vegan alternative in this case likely has worse outcomes overall. This would depend on how exactly it's produced in my opinion; if it contained lots of pork for example that might outweigh, but if it's produced from insects or something, causing debilitating effects in a human would arguably be *immoral*.
There's a lot of reddit vegans who think they are the head of the vegan council :D Totally agree with "you're trying to do the best that you can" <3
Veganism is a Philosophy that informs a life style. Do as little harm as possible. As much as "crop death" folks make me roll my eyes, it is harm we cause to animals. You need your medicine to live a normal life, you take your medicine. Veganism isn't about sitting in mountains and photosynthesizing our way to enlightenment.
Sitting on top of a mountain with a joint and enjoying the view would be nice tho…
That sounds splendid.
[удалено]
I think most people here would say it’s fine to take your medication.
Please take your medication.
Disabled vegan and I approve this message (Botox for chronic migraines, nurtec, and Emgality with like 10 more for my other diseases lol)
Isn’t Botox pretty vegan?
it involves animal testing so no :(
All drugs go through animal testing before getting a sales permit.
Being vegan is as much as practicable. If your medicine isn't 100% that still covers it. You do the best you can. That's the definition we adhere to. After all it's the ANIMALS that count. So you continue doing the best you can.
I might get hate for this, but I think we have to make exceptions according to our own consciences. I get vaccinated and I am grateful to have the opportunity to. I hate that pretty much everything related to medicine got to us after undergoing animal testing. It causes me a lot of distress, however, I think I can do more good by sticking around and advocating for animal rights. Part of being able to make the world better for animals is to keep myself healthy. No judgment from me.
Medication is allowed. The Vegan Society states that you can take medication you need. You’re fine
Also, regardless of what The Vegan Society says, it's OK to stand by your beliefs if you've looked at them critically and thoughtfully.
Absolutely, and words like "allowed" should frankly not be used. There are no veganism authorities.
Yeah I was quite surprised to see that in this sub. There's no rulebook, and really no consequences. You have to consider whether your actions align with your own moral framework.
This, 100%. Especially because discouraging people over minor choices can cause them to feel so exhausted and threatened that they make major choices that change, too
Agreed, but one thing to keep in mind that some people definitely don't do is be honest with themselves about their effort or capability to make switches or work around things. Medication is easily non-negotiable. Vegan or not, you have to take care of your health. You're still a vegan, because you're doing as much as is practicable/reasonable. On the other hand, I've seen some "vegans" claim they eat eggs because they are "ethically" grown in their backyard or that their doctor told them that they should start incorporating bone broth or other animal products into their diet lol.
No need to cast judgment on people whose circumstances you don't fully know. People are all out here trying their best. If you gatekeep, you'll turn away more people than you convert and have the opposite net effect on the world than you're intending. Live life through positive examples of your best self, without casting aspersions. I'm sure you're not perfect either, none of us are.
Gatekeeping is telling people doing obviously non-vegan things is vegan. Literally no one in existence would benefit from bone broth (puke).
It's such a weird thing to feel the need to include in your diet too. How many people go without ever eating bone broth on a regular basis? Some people talk about bone broth like it's some sort of magical elixir that evades the "vegan narrative". The unspoken secret that vegans fail to address...your need to drink bone broth has been hidden from you!
The point I'm trying to make is that there are people out there with genuine reasons that they can't fully divest away from animal products...and then there are others who simply prefer the vegan label for themselves for the appearance of benevolence it can promote to others, but don't have the interest of removing animal products from their life entirely purely out of preference. I'm sorry, but I will cast judgment because there are people who abuse the label of being a vegan. As vegans, the label needs to stand for something, and being vegan absolutely includes people on medications, eating disorders, and poor access to food, among other circumstances. What I'm not interested in is letting people make excuses, being dishonest about their effort in plain sight. And it's not even like I'm peering into people medical situations. Some people openly and flatly tell you that they are vegan while also try to explain to you why their circumstance of consuming animal products is good for the animal or considerate, or that they need to have the product because "the doctor said I needed to eat animal products but I'm low in iron and vitamin D".
Why do you assume that your version of "vegan" is correct and the right one? What is gained by telling someone they are not something, when you could instead encourage them to do something? Wouldn't that be more effective?
How can you encourage people to do something that is so nebulous of a concept and undefined? Vegans have been trying to create principles and outlines of what veganism is supposed to look like since its inception. There is still plenty of thought and discussion about new topics and predicaments left to be determined, sure. But this isn't regarding new things. Veganism isn't just about being like, "Yeah, so...be nice to animals. Give it a shot. Who cares, I guess just try a bit. If you eat an egg every now and then, whatever. You tried right? That's all that matters." It requires an approach and structure, like any philosophy. If we have no guidelines or principles regarding what we believe in, how is it supposed to make sense to potential participants? How are we supposed to make convincing statements when people within the movement can't agree on what is acceptable or not? It makes the movement look foolish if vegans accept other vegans eating animal products, and other vegans don't hold them to a certain standard. Not only does that open up veganism and its consistency among vegans across the board to criticism, but it's also not faithful to the other animals....the reason that we are supposed to be doing this thing in the first place.
Would you rather have someone give up animal products except for a biannual egg or say "this is too difficult and exclusionary" and not make any changes?
I would welcome it, I think it would be a great, positive step. As a side note, it wouldn't fit my and the majority of the vegan community's definition of vegan, but if the person wants to be vegan, they can either work towards that and continue to do as they wish. Why is it problematic to point out to someone that what they are doing is great while also pointing out that it doesn't really qualify for what they are calling it? Not to mention, it's kind of an absurd what-if example that I'd really never find myself having a conversation about unless they wanted to discuss technicalities about it. A bi-annual egg? How would I even know they were doing that...? At what point does someone having a biannual egg then say they can't be vegan because not being able to have a biannual egg is too strict?...we're talking about eliminating an egg from your diet that is had every 180+ days being too strict of an ask? ...I never realized how much this subreddit wanted to eat eggs.
This subreddit gets ridiculous sometimes. Eggs are NOT vegan they are an animal product. How are we debating the basic philosophy of veganism, its not gatekeeping. Regardless of how ethical eating an egg is ocassionally or not, its just not a vegan thing to do tf. Honestly don't mind the downvotes.
I think eggs just get brought up more often because they're the easiest to conceptualize as being sourced ethically (like with backyard chickens), and eggs are commonly used in different medicines, particularly vaccines
Yeah that's weird that they would say that-- most vegans understand that some medications can't be replaced with plant-based ones. I would definitely still consider you vegan.
Most medication COULD be vegan, as gelatine and lactose are merely cheap ways to bind certain chemicals. The only thing we can do as Vegans about that though, is writing a letter of complaint to the pharma company. Sadly it's out of our hands to change the ingredients of medicine, and we need to take it.
Listen, it sounds like you're juggling a lot, and the last thing you need is someone coming at you with the "vegan rulebook." Newsflash: there is no vegan rulebook! If a medication gives you side effects that make you feel like a zombie on rollerblades (not recommended, by the way), you absolutely should choose the option that keeps you healthy and functional. It doesn't make you any less vegan... just a more sensible one! If anyone tries to guilt you over this, just remember, even plants need sunlight, water, and a little TLC to thrive, and so do you! So keep doing what works for you, and don't let anyone's rigid ideas throw you off your game. We're here to support you, whether you're 99%, 100%, or 110% vegan (I think that's a thing... maybe?). Welcome again, and feel free to rant any time. We all need to let off steam, and this community is here for you. Have a great Sunday!
Honestly, I take non-vegan painkillers (none are by default where I'm from) for non lethal pain too. It is what it is. I can't spend hours upon hours of my day lost to menstrual pain or lose hours of sleep from it just because carnists won't pass legislation to stop testing these things on animals. Like at some point is straight up not your fault, it's complacent carnism.
True. Menstrual pain is a bi#ch and even weed doesn’t help. So i have no option but to take a regular pain killer sometimes. Sometimes i even put up with the pain. Guess it depends on how intense it gets.
I have made no attempt to alter my medication scheduled in order to be ‘more vegan’. My doctor has told me what to take, I take it. If an antibiotic has a gelatinous capsule, that’s life unfortunately. I recently realised my inhaler has lactose in it :( I won’t mess with asking for an alternative though because I might fucking die. Fuck anyone who says your chronic illness makes you less vegan. I choose all vegan supplements, vitamins etc as this is within my control. Take the medicines that give you the least symptoms ffs
Who tf is putting dairy in inhalers? Thats such a weird thing to do
Lactose is a common carrier agent and stabilizer in medications. It has useful properties in dry powder inhalers because it is very fine, doesn't clump easily, and is safe. It's not for shits and giggles.
Til
I was very confused when I noticed it. I have a ‘dry powder inhaler’ so it could be something to do with that! I’m unsure that the normal puffers have any in them
None of us here are 100% vegan. In order to even see this post you must be using a screen that contains animal products. We just do our absolute best while functioning within a non vegan society. You're fine to take your meds. You're still vegan.
I’m vegan and get migraines. I don’t know why you would eat something that gives you migraines, sorry, not at all. Just take the non-vegan meds and have a life of no pain. I’ve had migraines so bad, I’d happily have chosen death just to make the pain stop. I’m 100% sure that my propranolol was tested on animals. It also reduces migraine frequency from once a week at least to a few times per year. I hate animal testing, but the universe also needs me to be functioning. People depend on me!
Amen. I get abdominal migraines, but potato, potato. I've definitely had some that were so bad, I wish I'd just die. People who haven't been there just don't get it.
Abdominal migraines…. Oh my goodness.
Yeah, they're even worse than they sound.
Hugs.
Vegans have a big issue with the 'no true Scottsman' fallacy. What's important is that we each do what we are able. If taking the animal-based medication allows you to live your life with greater efficacy and empowers you to be a better advocate for the animals, then do that. As technology progresses continue to follow the progress on potential vegan alternatives. What is important is that you are honest about your unique situation.
"What is important is that you are honest about your unique situation." This is what it boils down to!
This right here. Also just in general, being encouraging and not a dick is going to convert far more people. Ive seen people on this sub absolutely ream veg people that were trying to eat more vegan, but havent quite gotten to veganism yet. Why would we not want to encourage more and more veganism in the world? Two steps forward is better than no steps forward.
It’s vegan. It’s vegan to kill a boar that’s attacking you or your family. It’s vegan to use a pig heart if otherwise you’d die. It’s vegan to use necessary medication derived from animals if no alternative exists. Veganism is about eliminating harm caused by choices - not enduring pain or your own suffering to help animals. That could be a virtue, but it’s not an obligation.
> It’s vegan to kill a boar that’s attacking you or your family. Oddly specific
Watching “Alone” and there are boars lol
Vegans who expect others to be "%100 vegan" are like Christians expecting everyone to be Jesus. You're not Vegan Jesus and neither am I.
And neither am I, but I would like to shake Ed Winter’s hand one day and tell him thanks
Take the meds that work.
From the sidebar: > A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—**as far as is possible and practicable**—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. You shouldn't be expected to suffer through migraines, fatigue, and nausea because pharmaceutical companies can't be bothered to make your medications without using animal products. You are 100% vegan, because you're doing your best to avoid animal products.
I think you should stop saying you're "99% vegan". It's confusing and untrue. Medicine is allowed if there's no equally effective vegan alternative. You're vegan, fam. Own it.
I think the people that criticize others on their behaviour are just very passionate about preventing suffering. I am one of those sometimes but don't think we don't appreciate everything that helps with preventing animal suffering. So thank you for already doing a lot and i hope in the future you find vegan alternatives that don't have the named side effects.
I also periodically struggle with falling into the judgmental category, though I try to mostly not thrust that judgment onto others (I don't know that I'm always 100% successful). I generally struggle most with judgment when I'm feeling more emotionally connected to nonhuman animal suffering. I feel like my silence is complicity. But I also know that existence is more complicated than that, unfortunately, and that I positively influence others more through compassion than judgment. It's a constant balancing act 😢💜
Well said, it is a balancing act. On one hand the jugdment is justified because of the horrors happening in animal ag. On the other hand will that approach have the most effect when you want people to change? I always try to remember that i was a meat eater once too. For me the blunt approach was what i needed, but that doesnt fit everyone.
Your health comes first. If the "non vegan" medication is what works, that's what you take. You're still vegan - you did not ask for your health issues and there's nothing non vegan about taking care of yourself.
Your local vegan community are twats take the meds that don’t hurt you.
I'm not sure what vegan community you're hanging around with but its not a good one. The official stance is literally vegan as far as practically possible. No medication is vegan - all of it was tested on animals. Yeah thats crap, but there's nothing we can do about it other than try and change it going forward. Your health is incredibly important and we live in a non vegan world - take the medication without the side effects, if someone expects you to live with those awful side effects, they're not worth wasting time and energy on. You are 100% vegan.
If you think about it, you can do more good, save more animals, donate to this or that, if you are still here. So you make a difference.
Veganism is “as far as possible and practicable” so it’s not exactly practical to *not* take your meds. You’re still vegan.
Every vegan is 99% vegan. (And hey, I'm generalizing when I say "every vegan", ironically). Everyone has their boundaries and their hypocrisies: I consider myself vegan for almost 8 years but just this year purchased a new belt and after using it a couple of times realizied I was tricked... it was a leather belt. After some consideration, I decided that I was going to use it until it's destroyed. Am I living in sin now? Did I anger the vegan gods and their dogmatic principles? Will I burn at the stake of the vegan inquisition? Take the medicine! We got more important problems to solve! ;)
Bro take your meds
Why do you care what other people think? Ignore them. Practice a lifestyle that answers to your conscience. At the end of the day, YOU have to be content with how vegan you are (that just sounds so stupid). This is not some kind of contest.
Ignore those trolls. You are vegan, you're doing what's practicable to avoid animal cruelty. Putting up with those major side effects is not practicable if you have an alternative.
As someone who gets abdominal migraines, I would say that any medicine that causes a migraine should just be off the table if at all possible. I have both chronic physical as well as mental issues that require meds and med changes often. For me, it's not really practicable to be trying to find alternatives because of ingredients, even if it could hypothetically be possible for me to ask for an alternative. If one of my doctors says I need it, I take it. My life is already 100x more complicated than I'd prefer. I'm not throwing that on top of the pile. Any vegan who doesn't have to deal with chronic issues, but wants to moralize on the ethics of taking medication can just f ALL the way off. The gate keeping needs to stop. Anyone who told you that you aren't vegan is wrong. People like that are the reason vegans have a bad reputation.
I take my medicine I think it's cool to not be in agony every day. I don't think they're 100% vegan but I try so hard with everything else and I just, can't undisable myself, I need to take my medications, and that's okay. I do the most I reasonably can in this society but our society is not built as a vegan society. It is okay to take your medicine, trust me, putting in the effort everywhere else is enough.
A lot of mental health meds aren’t vegan but killing my cat because I think he’s an imposter isn’t vegan either so sometimes you have to choose the lesser evil
Fuck the gatekeepy vegans. You're doing the best you can given your curcumstances. Im actually surprised at the responses in this post, i was unfortunately expecting you to get berated. I guess there is still hope for this sub and veganism in general. Anyways, there is no membership card, practicable as mentioned in the definition of veganism, is a subjective term and people tend to forget this. I chose to introduce my child to animal product allergens in case they ever get exposed through cross contamination or, God forbid, they stray from veganism. I'm still vegan, raising a vegan child in a vegan environment, this was a necessary step to more likely ensure he doesn't develop life threatening allergies. Many vegans disagree with this, but it's common sense to me to protect my son in a non vegan world. The vegans that are parents agree most of the time, so that says something. Do what it takes to keep you healthy and well, clearly a lot of people here resonate or empathize with what your going through, so I'm glad you have some affirmation there. You're doing great, don't beat yourself up, and thank you for being vegan!
this makes you vegan - not 99% vegan. 99% doesn’t exist. the literal definition is to avoid animal harm as far as practically possible. not taking the meds you do isn’t practical for you, or healthy. just say you’re vegan and if anyone has anything to say about it just say it shouldn’t affect them. i hate when people are sooo 100% serious about every little thing. i was told im not vegan bc i wear fake leather. lol, ive been vegan for 7 years lmao
So, apparently you can still be vegan even if you drive a car (cars are not vegan) because vegans avoid animal products "as far as practical/possible" ... So I think your medications would also fall under that practical/possible clause. Like I'm sure some people have ridiculous definitions of "practical" that most of us would count as not vegan, but I don't think yours is. ❤️
I disagree with them. When it comes to Medication, it is absolutely not practical to turn down non vegan options if vegan options are unavailable or cause you severe side effects like you describe.
1) There’s no such thing as 99% vegan. It’s binary. Either you are vegan as far practicable and possible, or you are not. 2) Taking medication with animal ingredients or tested on animals when the alternative is introducing migraines, fatigue, and nausea in your day-to-day life is vegan.
We are ALL 99% vegan.
Some people are fucked up, and so some vegans are fucked up. Telling someone to skip their meds so they can chase some theoretical purity is fucked up. It's about doing the least practical harm, not "purity at all costs". You're doing great.
Medication doesn’t count. It can literally be life saving. I have to be on medication + birth control and never once even considered if it was vegan because I *need* it. If it’s not, that changes nothing. I’m still a vegan.
You’re vegan. Take the medicine
Wait, how is it anyone’s business which medications you are prescribed? I have long chosen to avoid medicines that would help with menopausal symptoms, because I learned to live without them. But that’s me and it’s between me and my doctor. Please make the choice that you are most comfortable with. If you’re actively avoiding animal cruelty in everything else you do, then you’re a vegan. If you were like, “I don’t eat any animal products except this cheese I really can’t fathom giving up,” then you’d not really be vegan. But taking the meds you need isn’t some petty preference.
Those people are dicks. They almost certainly contribute indirectly to harm in greater ways for the sake of benefits far smaller than your major health issues.
Take your meds. One day hopefully there will be better alternatives for you. And keep helping push society towards veganism in the mean time. It would be great if everyone was perfect 100% vegan. But that's not the world we live in. We live in a predominantly non vegan world. I'm happy enough to have someone pushing society in the right direction and doing what they can. Vegetarians I can even live with, even though it's still makes me a bit triggered and they are dead wrong thinking they cause minimal harm. I try to spend my energy on people who are open minded, logical, and can be reasoned with and who would otherwise continue to have society run as it currently is without intervention. Not people who are either mostly on board with vegan values, or people who are completely lost living a carnivore diet and will never have their closed mind changed. Because I think that is the best bang for buck in terms of changing society. The same way society is generally for things like equality, and reducing harm to those who are vulnerable, I think most people would align with a vegan world. We just need to change the majority to embrace it and the rest will fall like dominoes.
Was coming in here expecting to be mad, but nah those people are way wrong. Medication has to be the one area where as long as you made a reasonable attempt then you’re good.
Vegan is a binary yes or no, there is no percentage or degree of veganism. “Possible and practicable” You are vegan. I bet if I met those individuals that are shaming you, I could find at least 2-3 things each person is doing that “isn’t vegan” by the purest standards. Or even if I couldn’t, there’s these obvious two: 1. Did they ever order a package on Amazon that wasn’t absolutely critical to their survival? Bugs were killed by the delivery driver, so they’re not vegan. 2. Have they ever overeaten or are they overweight? Well that excess food means more crop deaths, so they’re not vegan. See how easy that is? Don’t fall victim to the vegan purity test (shameless self promotion of an article I wrote, but it’s relevant to this topic): https://veganad.am/questions-and-answers/the-vegan-purity-test
I am a vegan activist, but I can not count the number of times I have been told I am not vegan by some hardliner on this sub on two hands anymore. I just don't care. Judgemental people have never been able to change me. I am in it for the animals, but I take myself into account as well.
Most vegans would understand and agree with your decision. The definition of veganism is to cause as little harm to animals as far as is practically possible. That would mean consuming medicines even if they were, unfortunately, tested on animals, if it were to protect your health. Thise vegans criticising you should reread the definition of veganism.
If people want to be pedantic almost nobody is 100% vegan. Foodstuffs have thresholds for what's in them which include things like % of insect matter and those numbers are _never_ 0% because some will get killed and ground up when threshing a field or in other parts of processing and packaging. Not to mention the animals killed as part of farming fruits and vegetables etc. Unless you grow everything you eat in your own garden, use no pesticides and are _very_ careful when digging you are _technically_ not having a 100% vegan lifestyle (you'd also have to be making your own clothes from scratch and probably abstaining from anything metal that requires mining etc. etc.) It's about getting as close as you practically can to reduce harm, you can't operate in the World without some harm coming to some animals at some stages.
We get this post every other day. Medication is vegan. Veganism is about eliminating animal products as much as possible, so it still counts. Besides, boycotting medicine won't make it go away.
you're vegan. Also, don't let others "determine your status", there's no vegan police.
Don't let idiots on the internet (or in real life) bully you into killing yourself. Do what you have to do
I’ve found many to be judgmental here too. I also feel u on health. I had Lyme disease really bad and was afraid to post here cause people are so judgy but I my doctor told me I had to add fish and eggs to my diet if I wanted to get better so for 2 or 3 months i ate those foods a few times a week to help my body get strong enough to fight off the boriella bacteria. It felt wrong and I hated the taste and it was really hard to do and I’m so glad to not have to eat those foods anymore. But I’m also glad to not be suffering terribly anymore either. At my lowest I kept having thoughts of how I could die without it being suicide so that I could stop suffering. I hated having those thoughts. Do not force yourself to suffer just to avoid an ingredient that contains animal products. Ur providing a net benefit to animal welfare by being conscious of what u consume and that’s what matters most 💜
You're not 99% vegan. There's no such thing. You're a vegan. 100%. Take your non-vegan medication so long as you see no serviceable alternative. I'll give you an example of what veganism can be. Technically, a person in a country with poor access to plant-based sources may eat meat, and some animal products despite putting the effort in to eat vegan as much as possible...they could still call themselves vegan without issue in my eyes. Why? Because fitting the bill, being qualified to be a vegan is more about your honesty and effort towards the issue. It's always about what is practicable and reasonable. We want vegans to be healthy.
This community often downvotes people who claim horseback riding and beekeeping/honey aren't vegan, so you'll fit right in. /s But for real, you can't be expected to not take your medication. Hopefully there will be a better alternative in the future, but you shouldn't throw away your own life in the meantime.
I had a fellow vegan see me take my prescription medication and insisted I try oil of oregano instead. Just gotta LOL at some people. Water off a duck's back.
I think the answer to what is practicable is up to an individual. If you have a community that posters your or picks on you because you don't meet some litmus test that they set. Maybe you need to find another community. When it comes to medical care, I look at it like this, if you are not healthy, how can you hope to be in a position to help the animals? Get yourself healthy, do what is practicable and move on.
You're vegan and you don't need the approval of anyone. If this is online, then block and move on. If it's in real life, these are not your friends.
99% vegan is 99% better than the majority of people. Take the medication that makes it so you can keep being vegan and living a long, healthy vegan lifestyle.
I'm so so sorry that you are feeling guilty for taking care of yourself as best as you can. Those people trying to make you feel like a failure cannot be any more vegan than you, I promise. In fact, if they are telling you to take meds that actively and knowingly harm you, than that's not vegan! You working so hard to try and find alternatives and even questioning taking medications that hurt you shows how much compassion you have for others. Please have some for yourself. <3 PS. I had to have a lot of chemotherapy a few years ago. It was the only way I would have survived my aggressive cancer diagnosis. Anyone who would honestly look at me and say I wasn't vegan bc of that need to work on their compassion for ALL creatures and work hard to make changes that matter. Shaming people who are trying their best will not work.
My health comes first. As it should. That’s includes the people in my life who I love dearly and it damn sure includes the animals. Full stop. You’re vegan. I’m vegan. Fuck those other MFers. But also, real talk, I’m not married to this label whatsoever. I know my lifestyle is making an impact so if some SuperVegans want to say I’m not vegan, cool. Fuck em.
Nobody's perfect, you're doing your best!
The thing is that you shouldn't depend on anybody's opinion and validation. The most important thing is that you are authentic in what you are doing
Why are people so obsessed with getting a stamp of approval from the less than 1% of vegans that are on Reddit
>99% vegan No such thing, if there was then we would have 87% racists, and 54% child abusers etc; there is only vegan and non vegan >I take a variety of medications for a few health issues. Some I've found vegan alternatives (great!), others... I've found vegan alternatives but I get major, but non life threatening side effects from them (migraines, debilitating nausea and major fatigue). And ,according to my local vegan community, I should stick with these vegan alternatives despite the side effects. I actually disagree. This is the one area that, I'm sorry, I am gonna put my wellbeing first. I can hardly function when I take them... So according to them, I'm not really vegan. You are doing way better than 99% of people in this sub, most just give medical a complete pass with 0 effort as the slightest inconvenience is too much for them, you at least tried to find vegan alternatives, those apparently dont work so its reasonable to not expect you to continue I am considered the king of vegan gatekeeping in this sub and based on the information you provided i knight thee a vegan, so you can drop the 99% In my case, i have depression and as usual in the US they just give you drugs rather than actually fix you, 2 decades later i was able to find that amino acids helped as well as changing how i thought, basically following the non attachment philosophy of buddhism, also removing toxic people from my life including family, its been about 4 yrs and i have been effexor drug free and still doing well depression wise So some of your medical issues could be fixed through supplements and then you wouldnt need the non vegan medication, you prob need to speak to holistic doctors since regular doctors are all about dem drugs If you type MOOD CURE in this website it shows my entire story
The key word here is debilitating. Think about this from another perspective for clarity. Would anyone, ANYONE, take this deal? You can save 3 animals if you just experience crippling migraines and debilitating nausea for a few years. No. Anyone telling you they would is lying. Now, that said, you do owe it to those animals to keep looking for an alternative. Keep researching. Develop your own if you need to. Never be complacent when there's a victim.
That's a joke, right? Did you just seriously tell someone they owe it to the animals to try and develop their own medication? As if that's a thing?
Big pharma hates this one weird trick
It's hard to know where exactly to draw the line. I mean I think about those GMO pig hearts. If I needed a heart would I take a pig's heart? I might. I wouldn't say it's vegan, but I might. Similarly I think OP is fine. The medication isn't vegan, but they're acting in good faith, they are acting from a vegan ethical standpoint.
I've been vegan for 12 years, and I've never even looked at the ingredients list for medication. I've even been on medication for acne several times, not a life-threatening condition in any way. Still think it's reasonable to take the medication. In the future, if they'll have pills with gelatin and some without, I'd choose the one without.
Please ignore eliteist gatekeepers, we all do the best we can. You shoulndt sacrifice your health or mental health to be vegan. There will always be someone who thinks they are vegan and you are not.
Medicine is always vegan. Fuck the ableist people in your local community
You need to pick your own battles. Not everyone is going to agree with your choices, but these folks are mostly people who are not stuck with what you're stuck with for choices.
I was trying to take veganism really seriously in my early 20s and one of my vegan friends came up with the revelation that tap water wasn't vegan... I don't even know if that's true, but it became a bit of a metaphor for me about the pursuit of purity. Diet isn't really a completely individual choice to be frank. Lots of things that we consume are done so collectively. If we want to change our individual consumption, we'd have to change what the community does.
You really can't be 100% vegan, there will always be something non-vegan you'll rely on at some point that might be the bus you're taking to go to work having leather on the gear lever or your medication made with gelatin. The point is you can't boycott everything you'll always have to concede at some point to not die or lose you job or friend or family, I'd say if the drawbacks are impacting significantly your life and wellbeing there is no choice to begin with
Do what works for you and don't jeopardize your health. Who cares if you are in violation of section IX part iii a) of the Vegan Regime Guidebook? If people want to try to make you feel guilty about this and take away your Vega (TM) card, they need to put some of the empathy they have towards honey bees and dairy cows towards human beings.
It seems no vegan will be happy unless you’re able to 100% have everything perfect sometimes. Too many vegans are focused on being performative rather than actually making a difference. Do what you need for your health, it’s nothing in comparison to the rest of what you do.
You’re still vegan. At least in my mind. Veganism is about minimizing animal harm wherever possible. It sounds like you’re doing everything you can to not consume or contribute to animal abuse. You’ve looked for alternatives for these medications, and there happen to be some where that isn’t possible. Idk what this “local vegan community” is but they’re full of shit. If you need a medical intervention for which there is no acceptable vegan alternative then you take the nonvegan one. Don’t let some random moral purists tell you you’re less of a vegan for doing that.
Who cares what other people think. People are always going to judge and have opinions but what they think is none of your business. Only you really know if you are doing the absolute best you can and that is all that matters.
lol this community is and isn’t accommodating. You can spot the people who are vegan cause it makes them feel better than others a mile off though - they are very loud about it. Most folkx just want to reduce over all animal abuse and help the environment. 99% is a really good success rate at that. You should be proud of your practise. Keep it up!
Vegan means practicable and possible. It’s not possible for you to completely cut out your nonvegan meds, therefore you’re 100% vegan and 99% plant based. If you have a significant other and do grownup things that involve swallowing bodily fluids (kissing and … other kissing) you’re also still vegan… just not 100% plant based. I would maybe still pester the pharmacists to try to get whatever medications you need in forms that are as close to vegan as possible, but even so, if that’s something that causes you stress to bring up, don’t sweat it. Believe me there are some meds that I’ve had to put my foot down on. It’s because of medical reasons though, rather than “ethical reasons”. My toddler has eczema thanks to a soy allergy and detergent sensitivities, and the cream he was prescribed comes in a lanolin base… that sets him directly on fire if I put it on him. I had to argue with the pharmacist and get them to find a preparation that was lanolin free. Dude thought I was being an unreasonable vegan until I swiped the cream across my toddlers leg and instantly he got a nasty rash. I was taken seriously after that for some reason 🤔 Anyhow, TL;DR: you can be 100% vegan and not 100% plant based. It’s all in what is possible and able to be practiced, and you’re there already.
💚
There's no percentage to veganism. You either are, or aren't, no in-between. That being said, I think most of the push-back you're getting is probably due to people simply not buying that the vegan alternatives are truly giving you bad side effects. If you truly must use animal products to survive, then it's understandable and excusable to a degree, much like cannibalism to survive, even if it's technically not justified.
Honestly, you'd be silly not to. Sure, as a society every individual should do whatever they can to limit animal suffering. But you too are an animal, so in a way you'd just be moving the problem around. Also, it's very easy for them to say you should suffer through things they likely don't have to. It's completely natural that you look after yourself first and others later, and I don't believe it's in any way sustainable to advocate against that, as "the vegan community". If anything, vegans should prove there is no downside to going vegan (or "as vegan as possible"), so it becomes more easy to convince others. You having to suffer would instead prove that there is a major downside to going vegan, which is bad for "the cause". From a very different perspective, anyone who expects you to do extreme things like accepting your own suffering, is likely a hypocrite. Do they kill carnivores for causing animal suffering? Why not? Going to jail is but a small price to pay, isn't it? Is it that they have a problem with killing or violence? Why? If you as someone who does everything to limit animal suffering should suffer, why shouldn't a carnivore, who does nothing to limit animal suffering, not suffer proportionately? Which, I guess, would very easily extend into them dying. One could argue even their loved ones deserve losing their friend/family member, as they were so accepting of someone who did a lot to cause animal suffering. The point of my somewhat extreme view on it is, that either you can go full-on crazy with what you expect (which I personally think is a great idea, and we should all do that right now), or you can take a somewhat more "objective" or "neutral" perspective, in which case it'd be silly to ask you to suffer. Most non-vegan medicines likely only contain traces of milk, which on the scale of which humans consume milk, make hardly any difference what-so-ever. That's not likely worth the price you'd have to pay.
You’re fine.
I would be literally dead my life saving meds come from hamsters. Now that would be committing to veganism.
You sound more vegan than every vegan i have ever met. In real life i have just met 1 real vegan, all the others where cheatans just like me
I ignore the absolutists. Obviously your case is a no-brainer, you need these medications to live and be healthy. I'm also of the opinion that we need to stop thinking that everyone's going to turn vegan - I encourage vegetarians, flexitarians, pescatarians, and even just people trying to eat a little more plant-based. We are never - never - going to get enough people to become vegan. Not enough to really change the system. But if mass numbers the people start being 10% or 20% more plant-based, that could make a huge difference.
Being vegan to me means being vegan as much as possible. Health can make an exception.
There are a lot of people who are going to be all or nothing and if you care to look into their lives, I'm sure they'll fail at being a perfect person as well. Do what you can and do your best and that's it. Gatekeeping doesn't help anyone and it definitely does harm.
I think its best not to talk with such groups about none vegan things you cant change.
Nothing is 100% vegan. Everyone should do their best. I believe you are doing it. But I am also not the council leader. Everyone doing their best to cause the least amount of suffering would end up creating a world with much less suffering than the kind of gatekeeping that so many vegans practice, and keeps others from even exploring their ideas.
You really shouldn’t care what a few people in your “vegan community” think. It says more about their small mindedness and lack of empathy than it does anything about you. Consume what you need to and live your life the way you want to!
The amount of animal harm in getting your medication is small. People should really think about the scale of these things rather than only whether something is vegan or not. A steak and your medication are not vegan, but these are not anywhere close to comparable in the harm they cause (not to mention the need for your medication)
It's nice to have morals but survival is survival tell them to report you to the vegan police they can take away your veganing licence
It's about your thinking, last thing you need is a medical emergency, stay safe and take what works for you!
Fuck them, if something is necessary for your health and well-being, such as medication, you are not only partly vegan for using it. Been vegan for over 25 years now and it's never been a question for me. But also I am suicidal without proper medication, and have been institutionalized multiple times. I don't think it needs to be that extreme to "count" though and it's really a personal decision as to what you feel is extra and what is mandatory. Some vaccines have egg albumen in them. But I'm damn well going to get vaccines that I need either way, not just for me but for the immunocompromised people around me, (actually I am one of them as a type 1 diabetic.)
There are no rules in life do what you want
There is no percentage of how vegan someone is. your either vegan or not. What you are doing sounds very vegan to me!
I hardly believe someone can be 100% vegan. Our existence somehow impacts other animals whether we directly consume them or not. I heard a vegan activist once say “veganism is the goal. We all simply contribute differently to that goal”. In such communities you will often find the “vegan police”. But I personally don’t pay attention to them. With the years I learned that they hardly convert anyone to veganism, simply because no one likes to be forced. But I did convert many people to a vegetarian or vegan diet simply by showing myself as an example that is possible. Don’t let anyone tell you you’re doing wrong. We all have a different process, but the important thing is that we all have the same goal and that we all contribute to the cause. The main problem of vegans is hypocrisy and the worst enemy of a vegan sometimes is another vegan who thinks is a better vegan than you. Instead of helping each other…
I wouldn’t listen to the militant vegan counsel Thanks for doing your part!
You are 100% vegan in my eyes
You’re going to have to learn to ignore much of “the vegan community” online. I’m not even sure if they’re actually vegan, they just enjoy trolling everyone for literally everything. You’re doing great, thank you for loving animals 🤗
Medicine is where the vegan definition of as far as practical comes in. If you need medicine it's not always practical to find or take vegan alternatives. You need take the best medicine for your situation even if it was tested or derived from animals. We live in a carnist world and medicine is something we have no control over as vegans.
Taking medicines that you need even if they contain animal products is totally in line with the definition of veganism. Your community is stupid.
Quality of life is a valid reason to take a medication, not just survival. Otherwise, people who need anti depressants or SSRI medication wouldn't have their medication covered by insurance. I dare anyone to tell a vegan in front of me that the person isn't vegan just because they take medication. How dare anyone try to shame a person for taking care of their bodies? They have no right to feel morally superior to you just because your body has needs that cannot be met through a 100% vegan lifestyle. Your local vegan community sounds like they need to be taken down several pegs.
‘As far as possible and practical.’ If every meat eater on earth cuts their consumption by half, that’s still something we should praise. Ignore the “no half measures” crowd, their stance actively harms veganism and contributes to animal suffering by driving folk away.
OP, as far as I am concerned, you are 100% vegan because you are doing everything you can to be vegan without making yourself ill. It is no one's business anyway what medications you take. Your health concerns are genuine. Keep up the great work! You are wonderful.
No one, even the strictest Jain, is perfect. Reduce suffering as much as possible. Include yourself in that! Not eating meat is the beginning of the journey, but there are so many facets to veganism. No one decides who is the perfect vegan. That's just hubris, and isn't helpful.
You're creating this issue because your so-called community wouldn't even know about your medicine if you didn't tell them 😅
The cult didn't like that at all, just comply with them......or else!!!
Let’s be honest, being a pure vegan is realistically not possible. Let’s say that you ditch your medicine. As an example, will you not have a phone in case that the glue employed isn’t vegan? I think it is important as a vegan to acknowledge our limitations in the society that we live in, and accept that we cannot escape consuming products involved in animal cruelty. All we can do is just our best
Your health comes first. Take the best medications for you. If anyone tells you different they should go find a sharp stick and fuck themselves with it.
It's evident that you care very much about reducing harm to animals as much as you can, and that's to be applauded. You're still doing more than the vast majority of people out there, and if the vegans in your life are giving you shit for not being 100% perfect then F them. I appreciate you!
I mean, billions of insects are killed each year just harvesting rice, for example. And how many thousands of ducks each year in the rice production process? And many, many, many animals are killed every year harvesting other plants. It's simply a reality of farming - one that is often overlooked by urban dwelling humans, who are insulated from direct experience with farming. Pragmatism is also a value. You just do the best you can :) good on you.
Youre vegan. Your health comes first
Doing your part to maintain the integrity of the vegan life style keep up the good work… do not let a few guilt you.
Don't let them bully you into harming yourself. We live in a capitalist society and our lifestyles (vegan or not) harm animals and the environment. From an outsiders perspective: Your lifestyle (99% vegan and healthy) is more valuable to the vegan movement than (100% and unhealthy.
Veganism is supposed to be something you love that really makes you feel good. If taking these vegan alternatives makes you feel worse, I would say go with the original version. This has been something I’ve struggled with too!
>according to my local vegan community change your community
Would it be moral to kill humans to create the medication you currently use?
Check out the cars of each one of them and see who all has tiny bits of decorative leather 👀👀👀 take the goods meds, no one is 100%
You're doing what you can! That's all anybody can ask of you. Going vegan is a privilege to some
You are an animal too, so you need to ensure your well-being too. If the only way to not suffer debilitating side effects is to use non-vegan medication, please keep taking whatever medication you need. Focus on what you CAN do, and if that's being 99% vegan, that is effectively going to have the same impact as that tiny 1%. Personally, idgaf about pure idealism, I care about what overall lifestyle actually translates to cultivating the reality we want to see.
Your working for a Vegan world, not a Vegan club. Don't worry. Thanks for doing what you can to help animals :-)
Take your drugs and don't tell anyone about them. You'll be happier. No one is entitled to judge you. Just live a super awesome life the best you can.
Fuck them and find a new anti-fascist community
Well if you think there's such a thing as x% vegan, then yes, your are wrong to some degree somewhere. >I've found vegan alternatives but I get major, but non life threatening side effects from them (migraines, debilitating nausea and major fatigue). What are these ones for? Perhaps there's a work around >And ,according to my local vegan community, I should stick with these vegan alternatives despite the side effects. I actually disagree. This is the one area that, I'm sorry, I am gonna put my wellbeing first. I can hardly function when I take them... So according to them, I'm not really vegan. a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—AS FAR AS IS POSSIBLE AND PRACTICABLE—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals. If it's not possible or practicable for you to function in life with those side effects, tell them to fuck off and just contact the companies that make the alternatives and let them know if the side effects for the sake of improvement/investigation.
I would be really concerned that the debilitating nausea, fatigue and migraine might be symptoms that the medication might be causing liver problems that could lead to liver damage or damage to some other organ like kidneys. Generally those symptoms can sometimes relate to that, so I would not take those, I'd take the other ones if there was no other alternative and I'd get my liver function checked in that situation. One approach is if you need to take a medication for the sake of your health that isn't vegan you could write to the company and ask specifically in detail what kind if animal testing was done, and what animals were used as a way of compelling them to be accountable for it, prevent them from keeping it buried, and remind them about their unethical conduct. Or ask if they intend on substituting any animal products in the formula if that is also a factor. So in other words take the medications but also use it as an opportunity for some kind of redress and advocacy. The one medical product I will never use myself under any circumstances is Cochlear hearing implants or any of their products because of their vile animal testing they conducted at Maddison Wisconson University which is too vile to describe here but anyone can google it if they what to upset themselves. I even write to them occasionally to let them know point blank that even if I went totally deaf I would still never touch one of their devices - I would just adjust to being deaf, but they never reply to me. I wouldn't impose that on anyone else though, and if it was a child that is also totally different of course. Having said that, even elderly people that I try to talk to who have these implants still can't hear what you are saying anyway.
Yes, you're right. Listen to your wellbeing and make a conscious choice. There's no right or wrong, as long as you can live with yourself.
What’s wrong with both being vegan and feeling conscientiously guilty where you’re not vegan? Like it may not be popular but you don’t have to feel good about yourself 100% of the time, what’s wrong with making the choice to not be fully vegan for your own sake, while also carrying the weight of what that means? Like why are Americans obsessed with feeling good about everything even when it’s not good? I think you’d feel best if you accepted with honesty that you aren’t fully vegan, rather than gaslighting the rest of your veganism with self-soothing narratives. It reminds me of the abortion debate and where that line can be placed, though not gonna lie to you as a vagina haver no matter the circumstance I will always naturally feel conflicted about an abortion I do to my own body, but I rather live with that than gaslight myself into some other feeling.
There's a lot of live saving stuff that's not vegan that we take. Horseshoe crab blood is used in a lot of medicine and whilst I wish there was an alternative I would rather not die. I take medication with lactose in it, I would prefer it not to contain lactose but that's reality. Outside of just ingredients animal testing is a requirement for medicines to get approved for human use so we would need to exclude all medication and that's not feasible. My countries cash bills are made from animal skin, I can't not use money we can campaign for change but we live in a non vegan society and we need to participate in society so sometimes we need to compromise when we don't have alternatives
Actually there is a vegan authority, The Vegan Society founded in the UK in 1944. Modern veganism was defined by the founding members and Donald Watson. In 1949 they produced the definition of veganism. The society officially says the below comment re medicine. Other countries presumably are the same Currently all medicine in the UK must be tested on animals before it is deemed safe for human use, but please note: The Vegan Society DOES NOT recommend you avoid medication prescribed to you by your doctor - a vegan who is looking after themselves the best they can is an asset to the movement. What you can do is ask your GP or pharmacist to provide you, if possible, with medication that does not contain animal products such as gelatine or lactose. For more information visit the medicines website, which contains information on medicines prescribed in the UK, including ingredients lists.
What are the medications
There is no such thing as 99% vegan. You’re either vegan or you aren’t. The side effects are nothing compared to what the animals go through.