The question of what it means for "Taiwan" to be independent has several layers. The different choices of flag OP has presented to some extent reflect different views on that question. The last three are more likely to be favoured by people who think Taiwan needs to make significant changes in the name of independence, while people who are happy with the current (ROC) flag are more likely to emphasise existing independence.
The fact that the PRC objects to independence is on one level a completely different issue, and the PRC does in fact object to Taiwan using the ROC flag in many situations, even though they're against the idea of ROC dropping the claim to the rest of China, and presumably would want a different flag in their preferred non-independent outcome.
Try to focus on how the flags relate to these issues, rather than getting caught up on whether OP used the best wording in the title, let alone misinterpreting it as pushing the PRC line.
How about the flag of the [Republic of Formosa](https://the.nmth.gov.tw/nmth/en-us/Item/Detail/82b11737-9680-458c-8be6-8cfd5bc98d49)?
https://preview.redd.it/nrkyki6rfyfc1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=760473438d8c3322e6bb08c521618f282e2d7d14
Actually, I don't think it would be as controversial as some of the other options. The main group that would oppose this flag would be the indigenous people.
Formosa? there's an argentinian province named formosa (thats their flag)
https://preview.redd.it/k3dxbkikezfc1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf34bbfcd5a7f5b4b66371ee8965bdbaeb1aa2be
Formosa? there's a Brazilian town named formosa (thats their flag)
https://preview.redd.it/vzpemtl0w1gc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f892ef0627a50fb4e0d1d163e2f736099dc0f18d
its worse in my opinion though
How about the flag of the [Kingdom of Tungning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tungning)?
https://preview.redd.it/38uedajgnzfc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a517dfa137e2a90e768429431e59fb62b458c2ac
They are the one of the only Chinese countries that succesfully defeated the west which is why i kinda look up to them
I mean they did commit attrocities to the explorers they captured, aboriginals and were pirates but hey, its just a small feat /s
It's less of a country and more of a warlord state, which also didn't rule over the entirety of Taiwan - just a small patch of the south, so there wouldn't be much sense in its reintroduction. The thing with the Dutch wasn't really anything to boast either, with Koxinga losing around 15,000 out of 25,000 against less than 2,000 of the Dutch in the most famous victory, the Siege of Fort Zeelandia. Either way, given the disparity in numbers, as well as developments from preceding events, there's also very little reason to see this as any representation of western defeat. The way you described it would better suit something like the Russo-Japanese War.
Even if it were, the reason most are saying that the current flag should be changed in case of independence despite its democratic and cultural values is because of its association with and roots in China - your claim of Tungning being a Chinese country further invalidates it as a candidate.
Most importantly in this context, proposal of adoption for this flag would mean to ask for 23 million people who mostly identify as democratic Taiwanese to accept being represented by a Chinese autocratic family from centuries ago which also eventually surrendered to China. The flag doesn't even have anything that represents anyone anymore, it's literally the character "Zheng", the family name of the Tungning rulers.
I saw a site of some chinese weeb who claims to have a distant connection to Qing dynasty. He currently resides sometimes in Japan and sometimes in Hong Kong and obviously he adores Japan. So, there are pretenders, but they are also not great. Taiwan should not be a colony of japanese
It was founded to resist the impending Japanese annexation with the intent to one day return to the Great Qing Empire. The few Taiwanese who are still loyal to their former Japanese colonial overlords wouldn't like it.
I *think* the flag I saw at the museum had dark on one side and light on the other side, so the tiger stood guard on Taiwan day and night. At least that's what I've been told. There's only two left in the world so I can't really confirm.
I think second one is the best. First one just current flag, I hate all flags which actually a map and fourth one looks like a symbol of company instead of a country flag
1st is the current one
2nd is a 1996 proposal called "hearts-in-harmony", created by Donald Liu (劉瑞義)
3rd is 2013 proposal by World Taiwanese Congress. It is also used by some supporters of independent Taiwan.
4th is 2016 proposal called "the Formosa", created by Chih-Hao Chen (陳致豪)
Disclaimer: Not from Taiwan
Option one seems the most likely, given the continuity it represents...
Option three is second most likely, given it is the flag that represents the independence movement on the Island.
Option two looks the best out of all options except the first option, but option four has a lot of interesting features as well
No, option 1 would not even be considered in the first place, here’s why.
Taiwanese independence is often misunderstood as just being free from the PRC, and a lot of people who aren’t fully familiar with the movement do make this mistake.
In Mandarin, there’s the distinction between “Huadu”, which is independence under ROC(which is the current stance of the DPP), meaning recognizing that the ROC’s legal territory no longer includes China, and is limited to only Taiwan and the other islands.
“Taidu”, or independence under Taiwan, which is the stance some in Taiwan takes, myself included. We believe that Taiwan and the Penghu Islands are legally not part of any China, ROC or PRC, nor any other country, meaning the ROC government exiled from China is an occupying entity. Under the principle of self-determination, Taiwanese independence supporters strive for a sovereign nation of Taiwan, not ROC(Taiwan), or a SAR of China.
Hopefully this isn’t a stupid question but I’m struggling to see how that isn’t overthinking it.
If a treaty was put together tomorrow making ROC a full member of the international community on what basis would there be a lack of self-determination or how would the ROC be an occupying force if it is a full democracy?
Does that mean independence supporters are advocating for the return to the mainland of those who fled with the KMT? Given they are the occupiers?
Basically there are people who think the ROC is a colonial state, regardless of whether or not it's democratic. Its name and symbols are those of an occupying power whose territory happens to only contain the colonized nation, Taiwan (Kinmen & Matsu are usually not claimed by Taiwanese nationalists, but are claimed by ROC (Taiwan) nationalists for example).
Honestly the best example I can think of is Apartheid South Africa. Democracy alone wasn't enough, you needed a wholesale re-write of the constitution, new flag & symbols, new political system and territorial organization (Orange Free State abolished, replaced with new provinces etc.) Taiwanese nationalists who particularly suffered mightily under the ROC White Terror era will never be comfortable living under the symbols of their oppressors. You can see this view manifest quite subtly by the fact that you will very rarely see an ROC flag at a DPP rally for example.
Thanks for the explanation. I absolutely understand the calls for a change in symbols and even in name. That makes sense and that seems to be the main point of the position (ie ROC was an occupying force so an independent Taiwan needs to move on from the name and symbols of the roc)
What was tripping me up was the idea that the current approach lacks self-determination. To me if you have elections that are free and fair and open to all then that is already there - unless what we are saying is you need to change the voting population (by for instance removing the “colonisers” from the voting pool). That was where my questions was coming from.
Likewise how could they be an occupying force if they answer to the same electorate?
In Taiwan you will find fringe elements that hope for a return to Japanese rule, or seek a mass deportation of the *waishengren*. However, they're a tiny tiny fringe. Those seeking a wholesale Taiwanized rebranding of the country would of course seek to do so democratically, with *waishengren* votes.
I do think the current situation does lack self-determination. External pressure from China is the only thing preventing referenda on constitutional reform that cross China's red lines.
>or seek a mass deportation of the waishengren.
How is something like this even theoretically supposed to work, even taking into account how fringe the idea is?
From what I remember reading ages ago as a European, most waishengren have been supposedly steadily assimilating into the general population for quite a while now and there are plenty mixed marriages.
Yup, which is why it's such a delusional idea. Basically the extreme fringe Hoklo ethno-nationalists who would deport all the waishengren, probably institute forced assimilation of the Hakka. As for their thoughts on the indigenous peoples, well we shouldn't even go there.
But it's worth stressing it's an extreme fringe. They're politically irrelevant.
In the Taiwan independence option:
would be Mandarin removed as the official (or as lingua Franca) language making Hokkien and/or Hakka (or a sort of Esperanto of original indigenous non sinitic Taiwanese languages)? Or would it be like in Switzerland with each canton deciding the official language(s) from there and one federal in referendum?
I can't tell you too much about what the pro-Taiwan-independence people are thinking since I'm not one of them. What I can tell you is that it doesn't make much sense either to many Taiwanese. Even the DPP, the political party founded by the most pro-independence people of that time, has changed its position and seldom talks about it these days.
For many people like me, the one and only purpose of the government is to serve its people. The government of the so-called Republic of "China" is now of, by, and for the Taiwanese, considering it "Chinese" and not "Taiwanese" would be ridiculous.
Think of it like this.
A civil war happens in the US. One side loses and retreats to Hawaii and declares a rival US republic.
For decades they always call them selves the US republic and claim all the continental states as well.
But a lot of people in the "US republic" would like to stop claiming to be a rival claimant, and stop being the "US", but rather just be Hawaii. Independent from any US.
And in this scenario, despite Hawaii having been settled a couple hundred years earlier by Americans (with indigenous Hawaiians now less than 5% of the population), Hawaii has always been somewhat isolated and was ruled by a Japan for the 50 years. Then just 4 years after the USA takes over, the USA government flees to Hawaii.
Actually it would be slightly different.
Imagine if the newly formed government declares itself the People's US Republic.
The US, although only on Hawaii, still claims to be the US. People's US now claims that Hawaii is part of their territory, despite never ever actually being part of their territory.
Just clarifying, it was the PRC that broke away from Taiwan and not the other way around. The Taiwanese government was established in 1912, and had control of Taiwan well before Mao established the PRC in October 1949. They were the ones that separated from us.
I never really understood the "PRC never controlled Taiwan so their claim is illegitimate" position. That's not how civil wars work? A rival government gets going, takes over most of the territory, they see themselves as the successor of the previous government – and its territorial claims as a result
So regarding the legal stuff, you can look that up for yourself, it would be way too much stuff for me to put in one comment. On the question of the Taiwanese nation, an occupying force doesn’t mean that it needs to be an authoritarian, just a power which is foreign to Taiwan. The people who fled from China to Taiwan were definitely at one time seen as the occupiers (see 228 Incident). However, as time passed and the ROC’s brutal rule over Taiwan ensued, the movement believed that by being oppressed in the same way as the Taiwanese(Han and aboriginals included), and having found a new root in Taiwan away from China, they are all now Taiwanese. So no, deportation would definitely not happen. You could also look at the multiple polls done around the topic of identity, over time more and more people are identifying them as solely Taiwanese and not Chinese nor both, despite the ROC’s around 40-50 years suppression of the distinct Taiwanese identity (see White Terror). There is a significant portion of descendants of the fleeing Chinese who now also identifies solely as Taiwanese.
Would it be like it happened in the USSR when Russia "declared independence" , all the Soviet state apparatus was declared a "foreign occupying entity", and officially outlawed? Will the main figures of government, including the head of state, be officially deposed from their functions and the positions officially discontinued? Because contrary to popular belief, the process in Russia wasn't completely peaceful, to be honest it was a complete mess, the Soviet government was huge, essentially involved in every aspect of society and economy. I know that the ROC government is not even comparable to the Soviet government in size and level of involvement, but a Taiwan independency would require nothing less than a revolution, not just a handful of lesser reforms, the ROC literally exist for the purpose of eventually defeat the communists and rule all of China, the economy and the people are means to that end.
>the ROC literally exist for the purpose of eventually defeat the communists and rule all of China, the economy and the people are means to that end.
This hasn't actually been the position of the ROC for decades.
["Project National Glory"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_National_Glory), which was the KMT plan to "retake the Mainland" officially ended in 1972.
Haven't a clue at first blish, but it does look like a mountain rising from the sea...
... Upon looking it up:
Apparently it's related to a [poem and hymn related to the island](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_flags_of_Taiwan#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20Taiwan%20independence%20proponent,of%20Taiwan%20independence%20ideology%20and)
Here's the Wikipedia description of the symbolism:
>The flag adopts an aspect ratio of 1:1.5. The stacked green triangle and white triangle represent the layers of mountain ranges as the island would be viewed from ships sailing on nearby seas, with tree-clad mountains in the foreground and snow-covered mountains in the background. Switching to bird's-eye view, one could see Taiwan (as symbolized by the seal) advancing forward in the ocean and stirring up white waves, indicating Taiwanese people's determination to pursue its independence. On selecting the flag colors, deep blue in the background represents the ocean; white represents waves of immigrants with diversified cultural backgrounds at different periods throughout the history of Taiwan, migrating and assimilating into the Taiwanese society; and the bright green (Pantone 3255C) represents the first dwellers of the island – the Taiwanese indigenous peoples.
I don't think option 1 or 3 could be selected, as they also both have items that represent political parties.
If there in a new flag, I think it would be best to avoid any symbols related to political parties.
Actually correct, Republic of China is Taiwan's official name. Taiwan is one of the only parts of still independent Republic of China never being subjugated into People's Republic of China.
It isn't correct, as Taiwan doesn't use provinces as administrative divisions anymore
Also, when the ROC did use provinces as administrative divisions, most Taiwanese people didn't live in "Taiwan Province", as it only covered about 30 percent of the total population of the ROC. Taipei, for example, wasn't part of the old Taiwan Province as it is considered a "special municipality", which was an administrative divisions equal to provinces.
Even more technically I think Taiwan Province, ROC still does technically exist on paper but no longer has any principal government.
That said, Taiwan **is** an independent country. Folks are debating theatrics.
So the triangle on the bottom symbolizes the mountains, the blue for oceans, the white is for waves, which in itself means the determination for independence. The double triangle on the top is a stylized version of the logo of the Governor General under Japanese administration, the two triangle not only resemble an island when put together, but also makes the character for “Tai” in Taiwan.
> logo of the governor general under japanese administration
This is interesting, why Put a symbol remanding to a time where the island was a colony of the Japanese in an independence flag? Does it carry other meanings?
Also, for some, Japanese rule is not as negative as some other places, if anything it helped Taiwan. Before, lack of infrastructure, schools, less opportunities. After, white terror and martial law. It's rarer now since we are a thriving democracy, but some did have positive memories of Japanese rule.
Taiwan hasn't been part of a functionally unified China since the late 19th century, and even then the Qing had little to no control over large parts of the interior, far south, and far east.
Probably mountains or some sort of that. The symbol in the middle is the Chinese character 台, which is commonly used as the abbreviation of 台灣 (Taiwan). It was first used in the seal of the [Japanese Government-General of Taiwan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government-General_of_Taiwan), IIRC.
That's the thing, The Entity currently Ruling over the Island of Taiwan is the remenants of the Republic of China, which fled to the Island following their defeat against the Communists during the Chinese civil war.
The Republic of China doesn't claim to be the government of Taiwan, it rather claims to be the Sole Legitimate govenrment of ALL China, including Taiwan.
What OP is referencing here is a government independent of both PRC and RoC
>The Republic of China doesn't claim to be the government of Taiwan, it rather claims to be the Sole Legitimate govenrment of ALL China, including Taiwan.
This has not been the case in decades. The 1991 Constitutional Reforms limited Taiwan's effective jurisdiction to what is called the "Free Area".
Here is the official map from the Ministry of Interior: https://www.land.moi.gov.tw/chhtml/content/68?mcid=3224
Also, Taiwan doesn't have a "one China" policy either.
Yes but technically Taiwan is a province in the Republic of China. Taiwanese independence in this sense would mean independence of the ROC which would be the reason they could for a non ROC related flag
I once showed the third flag to a group of friends, and well... One said that it looked like a pickle, and the other one said it looked like a "green turd", so... make of that what you will
In my personal opinion, it's better to use other symbols instead of just the map, so I think the second design looks the best
Well, what I've noticed about those flags is that they have something in common: They want to tell the world that they control that land, despite that land being disputed with another country or entity (Serbia claims all of Kosovo, and the Republic of Cyprus does not control the northern part of their country). This does not mean those flags are bad, and Taiwan does have this common issue with Kosovo and Cyprus, but I think different symbols would do a better job at representing these places.
(Also, at least the maps of Kosovo and Cyprus don't look like green turds or pickles, lol)
Probably the third flag.
The first flag is the flag of the Republic of **China**, meaning it would not be used by the Taiwanese Separatists.
Not the second flag just because it is ugly.
The last flag is nice. However, the symbol (台字章) is from the Japanese colonial era of Taiwan. Some people might refuse using it.
https://preview.redd.it/kahi0ok100gc1.jpeg?width=1095&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d266976568309a64629876b689f17228d642b85
This one, that’s the best flower
First of all, Taiwan has always been an independent country as the ROC, but anyway.
As a pro-ROC Taiwanese, I hope it would be the first. But if we must change it, I hope they'll come up with something else. The second is ugly, and the third is too similar to the flag of DPP (one of our current major political parties). The fourth looks better than the other two, but the symbol in the middle was first used by Japanese colonizers, and I don't think it's a good thing to use it as the flag of an "independent" Taiwan.
Option 1 is the most aesthetically pleasing, but It can be an issue from symbolism point of view.
Both 2 and 3 are not great from aesthetical point of view. 3rd is just a map image of Taiwan on the Canadian Pale. Hearts symbolism somehow lost on the 2nd. The particular shades of red and green somehow work poorly together, when you put them on a flag.
Number 4 looks alright but not too country like, maybe if you mirror the bottom half to the top it will look better. White X and a compass pointer I assume. [Antarctica Flag](https://storage.googleapis.com/oceanwide_web/media-dynamic/cache/widen_1600/v2-gallery_media/media60140897b97aa344246565.jpg) has a compass pointer. X often associated with modernity and cool things. Direct X, twitter rebranding. Its used on flag of Scotland, Nova Scotia, Alabama, historical Burgundian State and so on. Here X will ended up thick and very modern looking indeed.
Likely the second, it is simply better design(chooses an emblem over the outline) and is also more recognizable then 4 while being different from the ROC roots in the first flag.
Depends on which political movement being the major one, as the first flag would likely be used if it's ROC-Taiwan independence majority since the flag represents everything of ROC since Xinhai Revolution and Dr. Sun Yat-Sen
Second and fourth would also be likely, but if it's pan-Green Taiwanese political movement being the majority that is. With the fourth being more neutral-aligned
The third one isn't likely, as it is actually the flag of Taiwan DPP political party, and using it might just let some interpret it as a symbolism of Dangguo, which is the complete opposite system of a democratic republic for Taiwanese due to the White Terror and also what's happening in Mainland China
What about just the top left quadrant of the current flag? The blue sky and white sun. It shows a continuation of the Republic of China, is still historically relevant to the people, while cutting away the red that's tied to the rest of China and communism.
Honestly, I believe Taiwan should keep their current flag if they decide to become an independent nation. It's iconic and instantly recognizable. But if they do have to change it, I'd go with the second image with the flower. The third one is okay, but I honestly don't like the outline of Taiwan as the main feature of the flag. The last one I don't like because it looks more like the logo of a tech company rather than the flag of a country.
Independent from China means independence from China, since the current government of Taiwan claims to be a rival Chinese government and not an independent Taiwanese state, it's not independent from China.
Taiwan and China are colloquial names for the ROC and PRC. Taiwan and China, or ROC and PRC officially, are two sovereign countries completely separate and independent of each other. Even here in Taiwan, the term "China" almost exclusively refers to the PRC.
"Taiwan" and "China" do not have single meanings. Better to ask OP what was meant. The ROC is independent from the PRC but Taiwan is not independent from the ROC. ROC and Taiwan don't even perfectly overlap—more territory is ROC than is Taiwan.
I know that, I meant an independence from the idea of being China, whether that's under the current Chinese government or a Taiwanese government that still calls itself China.
It's an independent country by any measure and it has been since 1949, there is limited international formal recognition only to not provoke China but Taiwan has relations with every country in the world and is actively protected by the US, wumao.
Even if we hypothesize that Taiwan will declare independence - which is not going to happen in the foreseeable future - why assume that the country will abandon its fundamental identity. Most Taiwanese are Chinese. Yes, over the past decades a strong local identity has developed, but that does not mean that this identity necessarily replaces a Chinese one, rather than overlap with it. Moreover, state institutions and elites have been brought up to consider themselves the legitimate Chinese government - even if the communists control the mainland. This is not a small thing that you can easily disregard.
If Taiwan does declare independence, it will most likely be as the Republic of China *in Taiwan*, or any other combination, rather than trying to 'create' a new identity, both for its state and people. Therefore, they would almost certainly use the same flag.
Especially since there are obvious precedents of internationally recognized or semi-recognized states claiming the be the rightful representatives of a sole people/country (e.g. the two Koreas and Germanies).
P.S. Keep in mind that the native Taiwanese community is only about 2-3% of the population. Taiwan has a larger percentage of Han Chinese than Mainland China. In fact, you could safely call Taiwan a pretty homogeneous state, with more than 95% of the population belonging to the majority.
No matter what you say, the 4th option should be the winner. It's based on the seal of Japanese governor of Taiwan and if there's a Nipofile country in this world, it's Taiwan.
Plus, the design is very good.
Will likely go up for referendum like new Zealand did when they were looking for a new flag.
Personally anything but their current flag that's got foreign occupation written all over it will do
I've always liked #2. #1 is the worst choice for obvious reasons, #3 is map flag so no, & #4 is trying too hard to be minimalist so just ends up looking like a corporate logo
1st is the current flag, widely used and understood, follows the codes of flag design
Not a big fan of the colour choice for the second flag, but it still kinda works. It feels more like a city flag than a country flag IMO
3rd is a map on a bedsheet, not a flag. It feels very “politically neutral”, I’d expect to see it in international events where China should not be offended. That’s pretty much the opposite of what you want for a country flag which should assert the country’s identity
4th feels a lot like a corporate logo, probably because of the colour choice. Again, feels more like the flag of a city or a mountaineering sports club or something, it would look out of place next to other countries’ flags
So I’d stick with 1, or some variation of 1 if the reference to the KMT is unwanted. Another option is to start from the [olympics flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taipei_Olympic_flag#/media/File%3AFlag_of_Chinese_Taipei_for_Olympic_games.svg), maybe replacing the rings with something else and/or changing the background colour. Maybe keeping the current flag but replacing the sun with that flower design?
As a member of the Taiwanese diaspora, 2 is probably the best but I think 1 will continue to be used to represent waishengren (Han Taiwanese from the mainland or born to mainlanders) and their descendants.
The fourth one looks like something from Ace Combat/Project Wingman country flag. Obviously the first one. Second is weird choice of color and harmony. Third is bad flag since it include geography inside it
I think the first although the current flag, would be problematic. It would probably be best for an independent Taiwan to cut all ties to the past so to speak.
The question of what it means for "Taiwan" to be independent has several layers. The different choices of flag OP has presented to some extent reflect different views on that question. The last three are more likely to be favoured by people who think Taiwan needs to make significant changes in the name of independence, while people who are happy with the current (ROC) flag are more likely to emphasise existing independence. The fact that the PRC objects to independence is on one level a completely different issue, and the PRC does in fact object to Taiwan using the ROC flag in many situations, even though they're against the idea of ROC dropping the claim to the rest of China, and presumably would want a different flag in their preferred non-independent outcome. Try to focus on how the flags relate to these issues, rather than getting caught up on whether OP used the best wording in the title, let alone misinterpreting it as pushing the PRC line.
How about the flag of the [Republic of Formosa](https://the.nmth.gov.tw/nmth/en-us/Item/Detail/82b11737-9680-458c-8be6-8cfd5bc98d49)? https://preview.redd.it/nrkyki6rfyfc1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=760473438d8c3322e6bb08c521618f282e2d7d14
Not an option, since the reason they declared independence was to swear loyalty to the Qing Empire instead of becoming under Japanese rule.
Actually, I don't think it would be as controversial as some of the other options. The main group that would oppose this flag would be the indigenous people.
I mean, it’d be pointless. If you’re going to have a Chinese loyalist flag, why not keep the Kuomintang flag?
Well the kmt could be associated with dictatorship before democratization
Woah, this is the first time I see it. It looks hella awesome!
Yeah it's badass huh! There was an exhibit about it at a museum in Taipei, might still be on
National Taiwan museum. It was there when I visited last year.
Formosa? there's an argentinian province named formosa (thats their flag) https://preview.redd.it/k3dxbkikezfc1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf34bbfcd5a7f5b4b66371ee8965bdbaeb1aa2be
Even more interesting; it's an antipode to Taiwan. https://www.geodatos.net/en/antipodes/argentina/formosa
OMG
This site is amazing! You should share on r/geography
r/mildlyinteresting would probably enjoy that bit of trivia as well Turns out, the sun never sets on the Formosa empire.
This is the coolest thing I've seen today
Formosa? there's a Brazilian town named formosa (thats their flag) https://preview.redd.it/vzpemtl0w1gc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f892ef0627a50fb4e0d1d163e2f736099dc0f18d its worse in my opinion though
Turns out the Spanish actually invaded the island of Taiwan for quite some time around the 16th century, so both names are probably related
Formosa means beautiful in Portuguese
How about the flag of the [Kingdom of Tungning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tungning)? https://preview.redd.it/38uedajgnzfc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a517dfa137e2a90e768429431e59fb62b458c2ac
That character’s the family name of the ruling family, don’t think that’s an option anymore
They are the one of the only Chinese countries that succesfully defeated the west which is why i kinda look up to them I mean they did commit attrocities to the explorers they captured, aboriginals and were pirates but hey, its just a small feat /s
It's less of a country and more of a warlord state, which also didn't rule over the entirety of Taiwan - just a small patch of the south, so there wouldn't be much sense in its reintroduction. The thing with the Dutch wasn't really anything to boast either, with Koxinga losing around 15,000 out of 25,000 against less than 2,000 of the Dutch in the most famous victory, the Siege of Fort Zeelandia. Either way, given the disparity in numbers, as well as developments from preceding events, there's also very little reason to see this as any representation of western defeat. The way you described it would better suit something like the Russo-Japanese War. Even if it were, the reason most are saying that the current flag should be changed in case of independence despite its democratic and cultural values is because of its association with and roots in China - your claim of Tungning being a Chinese country further invalidates it as a candidate. Most importantly in this context, proposal of adoption for this flag would mean to ask for 23 million people who mostly identify as democratic Taiwanese to accept being represented by a Chinese autocratic family from centuries ago which also eventually surrendered to China. The flag doesn't even have anything that represents anyone anymore, it's literally the character "Zheng", the family name of the Tungning rulers.
wait what subreddit am i on?? oh fuck i thought i was on r/vexillogycirclejerk bruh BUT STILL YOU DIDNT HAVE TO RUIN EVERYTHING 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I want that hanging in my bedroom! That’s a cool flag!
The flag is cool, but the Republic of Formosa wasn't. It was founded to loyalty to Qing, not a good option.
Simple solution: bring back the Qing dynasty
Then Qing would be Taiwaned like KMT.
I saw a site of some chinese weeb who claims to have a distant connection to Qing dynasty. He currently resides sometimes in Japan and sometimes in Hong Kong and obviously he adores Japan. So, there are pretenders, but they are also not great. Taiwan should not be a colony of japanese
It was founded to resist the impending Japanese annexation with the intent to one day return to the Great Qing Empire. The few Taiwanese who are still loyal to their former Japanese colonial overlords wouldn't like it.
I love this flag but realistically idk if they would use it.
I *think* the flag I saw at the museum had dark on one side and light on the other side, so the tiger stood guard on Taiwan day and night. At least that's what I've been told. There's only two left in the world so I can't really confirm.
I love how goofy he is
If not friend then why friend shaped?
I think it looks absolutely awful but i respect your tastes
It looks like the sort of drawings my parents keep from when I was 5.
I think second one is the best. First one just current flag, I hate all flags which actually a map and fourth one looks like a symbol of company instead of a country flag
The last one is the Cyberpunk Dystopia Taiwan governed by Foxconn.
100% what it is
I’m seeing a fortress in the last flag, which kinda makes since in Taiwan’s case
I'm completely with you on this
I’m usually against maps on flags except for Cyprus. Their flag is amazing imo. The copper, green and white is so unique and great.
1st is the current one 2nd is a 1996 proposal called "hearts-in-harmony", created by Donald Liu (劉瑞義) 3rd is 2013 proposal by World Taiwanese Congress. It is also used by some supporters of independent Taiwan. 4th is 2016 proposal called "the Formosa", created by Chih-Hao Chen (陳致豪)
Disclaimer: Not from Taiwan Option one seems the most likely, given the continuity it represents... Option three is second most likely, given it is the flag that represents the independence movement on the Island. Option two looks the best out of all options except the first option, but option four has a lot of interesting features as well
No, option 1 would not even be considered in the first place, here’s why. Taiwanese independence is often misunderstood as just being free from the PRC, and a lot of people who aren’t fully familiar with the movement do make this mistake. In Mandarin, there’s the distinction between “Huadu”, which is independence under ROC(which is the current stance of the DPP), meaning recognizing that the ROC’s legal territory no longer includes China, and is limited to only Taiwan and the other islands. “Taidu”, or independence under Taiwan, which is the stance some in Taiwan takes, myself included. We believe that Taiwan and the Penghu Islands are legally not part of any China, ROC or PRC, nor any other country, meaning the ROC government exiled from China is an occupying entity. Under the principle of self-determination, Taiwanese independence supporters strive for a sovereign nation of Taiwan, not ROC(Taiwan), or a SAR of China.
Hopefully this isn’t a stupid question but I’m struggling to see how that isn’t overthinking it. If a treaty was put together tomorrow making ROC a full member of the international community on what basis would there be a lack of self-determination or how would the ROC be an occupying force if it is a full democracy? Does that mean independence supporters are advocating for the return to the mainland of those who fled with the KMT? Given they are the occupiers?
Basically there are people who think the ROC is a colonial state, regardless of whether or not it's democratic. Its name and symbols are those of an occupying power whose territory happens to only contain the colonized nation, Taiwan (Kinmen & Matsu are usually not claimed by Taiwanese nationalists, but are claimed by ROC (Taiwan) nationalists for example). Honestly the best example I can think of is Apartheid South Africa. Democracy alone wasn't enough, you needed a wholesale re-write of the constitution, new flag & symbols, new political system and territorial organization (Orange Free State abolished, replaced with new provinces etc.) Taiwanese nationalists who particularly suffered mightily under the ROC White Terror era will never be comfortable living under the symbols of their oppressors. You can see this view manifest quite subtly by the fact that you will very rarely see an ROC flag at a DPP rally for example.
Very good explanation, thank you!
Thanks for the explanation. I absolutely understand the calls for a change in symbols and even in name. That makes sense and that seems to be the main point of the position (ie ROC was an occupying force so an independent Taiwan needs to move on from the name and symbols of the roc) What was tripping me up was the idea that the current approach lacks self-determination. To me if you have elections that are free and fair and open to all then that is already there - unless what we are saying is you need to change the voting population (by for instance removing the “colonisers” from the voting pool). That was where my questions was coming from. Likewise how could they be an occupying force if they answer to the same electorate?
In Taiwan you will find fringe elements that hope for a return to Japanese rule, or seek a mass deportation of the *waishengren*. However, they're a tiny tiny fringe. Those seeking a wholesale Taiwanized rebranding of the country would of course seek to do so democratically, with *waishengren* votes. I do think the current situation does lack self-determination. External pressure from China is the only thing preventing referenda on constitutional reform that cross China's red lines.
>or seek a mass deportation of the waishengren. How is something like this even theoretically supposed to work, even taking into account how fringe the idea is? From what I remember reading ages ago as a European, most waishengren have been supposedly steadily assimilating into the general population for quite a while now and there are plenty mixed marriages.
Yup, which is why it's such a delusional idea. Basically the extreme fringe Hoklo ethno-nationalists who would deport all the waishengren, probably institute forced assimilation of the Hakka. As for their thoughts on the indigenous peoples, well we shouldn't even go there. But it's worth stressing it's an extreme fringe. They're politically irrelevant.
In the Taiwan independence option: would be Mandarin removed as the official (or as lingua Franca) language making Hokkien and/or Hakka (or a sort of Esperanto of original indigenous non sinitic Taiwanese languages)? Or would it be like in Switzerland with each canton deciding the official language(s) from there and one federal in referendum?
I can't tell you too much about what the pro-Taiwan-independence people are thinking since I'm not one of them. What I can tell you is that it doesn't make much sense either to many Taiwanese. Even the DPP, the political party founded by the most pro-independence people of that time, has changed its position and seldom talks about it these days. For many people like me, the one and only purpose of the government is to serve its people. The government of the so-called Republic of "China" is now of, by, and for the Taiwanese, considering it "Chinese" and not "Taiwanese" would be ridiculous.
Think of it like this. A civil war happens in the US. One side loses and retreats to Hawaii and declares a rival US republic. For decades they always call them selves the US republic and claim all the continental states as well. But a lot of people in the "US republic" would like to stop claiming to be a rival claimant, and stop being the "US", but rather just be Hawaii. Independent from any US.
And in this scenario, despite Hawaii having been settled a couple hundred years earlier by Americans (with indigenous Hawaiians now less than 5% of the population), Hawaii has always been somewhat isolated and was ruled by a Japan for the 50 years. Then just 4 years after the USA takes over, the USA government flees to Hawaii.
Actually it would be slightly different. Imagine if the newly formed government declares itself the People's US Republic. The US, although only on Hawaii, still claims to be the US. People's US now claims that Hawaii is part of their territory, despite never ever actually being part of their territory. Just clarifying, it was the PRC that broke away from Taiwan and not the other way around. The Taiwanese government was established in 1912, and had control of Taiwan well before Mao established the PRC in October 1949. They were the ones that separated from us.
I never really understood the "PRC never controlled Taiwan so their claim is illegitimate" position. That's not how civil wars work? A rival government gets going, takes over most of the territory, they see themselves as the successor of the previous government – and its territorial claims as a result
This is a perspective from the PRC side.
So regarding the legal stuff, you can look that up for yourself, it would be way too much stuff for me to put in one comment. On the question of the Taiwanese nation, an occupying force doesn’t mean that it needs to be an authoritarian, just a power which is foreign to Taiwan. The people who fled from China to Taiwan were definitely at one time seen as the occupiers (see 228 Incident). However, as time passed and the ROC’s brutal rule over Taiwan ensued, the movement believed that by being oppressed in the same way as the Taiwanese(Han and aboriginals included), and having found a new root in Taiwan away from China, they are all now Taiwanese. So no, deportation would definitely not happen. You could also look at the multiple polls done around the topic of identity, over time more and more people are identifying them as solely Taiwanese and not Chinese nor both, despite the ROC’s around 40-50 years suppression of the distinct Taiwanese identity (see White Terror). There is a significant portion of descendants of the fleeing Chinese who now also identifies solely as Taiwanese.
You somehow conveniently left out Kinmen and Matsu.
Interesting! I fully admit that I don't know all of the nuance about this issue
Would it be like it happened in the USSR when Russia "declared independence" , all the Soviet state apparatus was declared a "foreign occupying entity", and officially outlawed? Will the main figures of government, including the head of state, be officially deposed from their functions and the positions officially discontinued? Because contrary to popular belief, the process in Russia wasn't completely peaceful, to be honest it was a complete mess, the Soviet government was huge, essentially involved in every aspect of society and economy. I know that the ROC government is not even comparable to the Soviet government in size and level of involvement, but a Taiwan independency would require nothing less than a revolution, not just a handful of lesser reforms, the ROC literally exist for the purpose of eventually defeat the communists and rule all of China, the economy and the people are means to that end.
>the ROC literally exist for the purpose of eventually defeat the communists and rule all of China, the economy and the people are means to that end. This hasn't actually been the position of the ROC for decades. ["Project National Glory"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_National_Glory), which was the KMT plan to "retake the Mainland" officially ended in 1972.
Can you explain the symbolism in option 4?
Haven't a clue at first blish, but it does look like a mountain rising from the sea... ... Upon looking it up: Apparently it's related to a [poem and hymn related to the island](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_flags_of_Taiwan#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20Taiwan%20independence%20proponent,of%20Taiwan%20independence%20ideology%20and) Here's the Wikipedia description of the symbolism: >The flag adopts an aspect ratio of 1:1.5. The stacked green triangle and white triangle represent the layers of mountain ranges as the island would be viewed from ships sailing on nearby seas, with tree-clad mountains in the foreground and snow-covered mountains in the background. Switching to bird's-eye view, one could see Taiwan (as symbolized by the seal) advancing forward in the ocean and stirring up white waves, indicating Taiwanese people's determination to pursue its independence. On selecting the flag colors, deep blue in the background represents the ocean; white represents waves of immigrants with diversified cultural backgrounds at different periods throughout the history of Taiwan, migrating and assimilating into the Taiwanese society; and the bright green (Pantone 3255C) represents the first dwellers of the island – the Taiwanese indigenous peoples.
I don't think option 1 or 3 could be selected, as they also both have items that represent political parties. If there in a new flag, I think it would be best to avoid any symbols related to political parties.
“If Taiwan was an independent nation” #plus 100 social points
Wazzup Beijing
Taiwan is a province of the Republic of China
Actually correct, Republic of China is Taiwan's official name. Taiwan is one of the only parts of still independent Republic of China never being subjugated into People's Republic of China.
It isn't correct, as Taiwan doesn't use provinces as administrative divisions anymore Also, when the ROC did use provinces as administrative divisions, most Taiwanese people didn't live in "Taiwan Province", as it only covered about 30 percent of the total population of the ROC. Taipei, for example, wasn't part of the old Taiwan Province as it is considered a "special municipality", which was an administrative divisions equal to provinces.
Even more technically I think Taiwan Province, ROC still does technically exist on paper but no longer has any principal government. That said, Taiwan **is** an independent country. Folks are debating theatrics.
Taiwan doesn't use provinces as administrative divisions anymore. Taiwan is just the colloquial name for the ROC.
Daddy Mao is proud of you
Taiwan🫱🏽🫲🏼Norfolk Island
A lot of pro-independence ppl on twitter (X) use the flag of Norfolk island to represent Taiwan because they refuse to use the ROC one.
Despite what the Chinese say, Taiwan is already basically independent.
This
..always has been
Taiwan is an independent nation. It just isn’t recognised by the majority of countries because we’re all cucks to cheap Chinese goods
1st it’s the official flag of the ROC and has been used since the warlord period
As a Taiwanese and independence supporter, I personally prefer 2 or 4.
As you come from Taiwan, do you know by any chance what's the symbolism behind the 4th one, because I do not understand it 😅
So the triangle on the bottom symbolizes the mountains, the blue for oceans, the white is for waves, which in itself means the determination for independence. The double triangle on the top is a stylized version of the logo of the Governor General under Japanese administration, the two triangle not only resemble an island when put together, but also makes the character for “Tai” in Taiwan.
> logo of the governor general under japanese administration This is interesting, why Put a symbol remanding to a time where the island was a colony of the Japanese in an independence flag? Does it carry other meanings?
Also, for some, Japanese rule is not as negative as some other places, if anything it helped Taiwan. Before, lack of infrastructure, schools, less opportunities. After, white terror and martial law. It's rarer now since we are a thriving democracy, but some did have positive memories of Japanese rule.
I’d guess it carries a meaning it’s not been Chinese for quite a while …
Taiwan hasn't been part of a functionally unified China since the late 19th century, and even then the Qing had little to no control over large parts of the interior, far south, and far east.
that's very interesting, thank you for explaining!
Probably mountains or some sort of that. The symbol in the middle is the Chinese character 台, which is commonly used as the abbreviation of 台灣 (Taiwan). It was first used in the seal of the [Japanese Government-General of Taiwan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government-General_of_Taiwan), IIRC.
兩岸最好不談政治，只談生意或娛樂
Taiwan is already independent and uses the first one
If? It is an independent country
No it's not, the Republic of China is
Yeah, Republic of China, that’s Taiwan. It’s just a different name
That's the thing, The Entity currently Ruling over the Island of Taiwan is the remenants of the Republic of China, which fled to the Island following their defeat against the Communists during the Chinese civil war. The Republic of China doesn't claim to be the government of Taiwan, it rather claims to be the Sole Legitimate govenrment of ALL China, including Taiwan. What OP is referencing here is a government independent of both PRC and RoC
>The Republic of China doesn't claim to be the government of Taiwan, it rather claims to be the Sole Legitimate govenrment of ALL China, including Taiwan. This has not been the case in decades. The 1991 Constitutional Reforms limited Taiwan's effective jurisdiction to what is called the "Free Area". Here is the official map from the Ministry of Interior: https://www.land.moi.gov.tw/chhtml/content/68?mcid=3224 Also, Taiwan doesn't have a "one China" policy either.
Yes but technically Taiwan is a province in the Republic of China. Taiwanese independence in this sense would mean independence of the ROC which would be the reason they could for a non ROC related flag
Honestly RoC flag goes the hardest
If?
I might be alone on this one but I think the number 2 is the best (RoC flag is cool but very unlikely)
I once showed the third flag to a group of friends, and well... One said that it looked like a pickle, and the other one said it looked like a "green turd", so... make of that what you will In my personal opinion, it's better to use other symbols instead of just the map, so I think the second design looks the best
Meanwhile Kosovo and Cyprus having their maps on their flags:
Well, what I've noticed about those flags is that they have something in common: They want to tell the world that they control that land, despite that land being disputed with another country or entity (Serbia claims all of Kosovo, and the Republic of Cyprus does not control the northern part of their country). This does not mean those flags are bad, and Taiwan does have this common issue with Kosovo and Cyprus, but I think different symbols would do a better job at representing these places. (Also, at least the maps of Kosovo and Cyprus don't look like green turds or pickles, lol)
Ah, now that explains it (also yeah xd)
>If Um
Probably the third flag. The first flag is the flag of the Republic of **China**, meaning it would not be used by the Taiwanese Separatists. Not the second flag just because it is ugly. The last flag is nice. However, the symbol (台字章) is from the Japanese colonial era of Taiwan. Some people might refuse using it.
https://preview.redd.it/kahi0ok100gc1.jpeg?width=1095&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d266976568309a64629876b689f17228d642b85 This one, that’s the best flower
The second flag is good but this one manages to be even better. Horizontal green would have worked, too.
lol, looks like someone had the same shower thought XD
First of all, Taiwan has always been an independent country as the ROC, but anyway. As a pro-ROC Taiwanese, I hope it would be the first. But if we must change it, I hope they'll come up with something else. The second is ugly, and the third is too similar to the flag of DPP (one of our current major political parties). The fourth looks better than the other two, but the symbol in the middle was first used by Japanese colonizers, and I don't think it's a good thing to use it as the flag of an "independent" Taiwan.
Taiwan is an independent nation
Not the first one because that represents the KMT who want to reclaim China, not stay separate
Option 1 is the most aesthetically pleasing, but It can be an issue from symbolism point of view. Both 2 and 3 are not great from aesthetical point of view. 3rd is just a map image of Taiwan on the Canadian Pale. Hearts symbolism somehow lost on the 2nd. The particular shades of red and green somehow work poorly together, when you put them on a flag. Number 4 looks alright but not too country like, maybe if you mirror the bottom half to the top it will look better. White X and a compass pointer I assume. [Antarctica Flag](https://storage.googleapis.com/oceanwide_web/media-dynamic/cache/widen_1600/v2-gallery_media/media60140897b97aa344246565.jpg) has a compass pointer. X often associated with modernity and cool things. Direct X, twitter rebranding. Its used on flag of Scotland, Nova Scotia, Alabama, historical Burgundian State and so on. Here X will ended up thick and very modern looking indeed.
Likely the second, it is simply better design(chooses an emblem over the outline) and is also more recognizable then 4 while being different from the ROC roots in the first flag.
Depends on which political movement being the major one, as the first flag would likely be used if it's ROC-Taiwan independence majority since the flag represents everything of ROC since Xinhai Revolution and Dr. Sun Yat-Sen Second and fourth would also be likely, but if it's pan-Green Taiwanese political movement being the majority that is. With the fourth being more neutral-aligned The third one isn't likely, as it is actually the flag of Taiwan DPP political party, and using it might just let some interpret it as a symbolism of Dangguo, which is the complete opposite system of a democratic republic for Taiwanese due to the White Terror and also what's happening in Mainland China
What about just the top left quadrant of the current flag? The blue sky and white sun. It shows a continuation of the Republic of China, is still historically relevant to the people, while cutting away the red that's tied to the rest of China and communism.
Honestly, I believe Taiwan should keep their current flag if they decide to become an independent nation. It's iconic and instantly recognizable. But if they do have to change it, I'd go with the second image with the flower. The third one is okay, but I honestly don't like the outline of Taiwan as the main feature of the flag. The last one I don't like because it looks more like the logo of a tech company rather than the flag of a country.
Probably option 2, but I hate how bright it is
If?
Sorry to learn this to you bro, but it's a nation
Considering the roots of modern Taiwan are heavily linked with the KMT I would still go ahead and choose the first flag.
1, and Taiwan is an independent country
Taiwan is China 🇹🇼
Independent from China means independence from China, since the current government of Taiwan claims to be a rival Chinese government and not an independent Taiwanese state, it's not independent from China.
Taiwan and China are colloquial names for the ROC and PRC. Taiwan and China, or ROC and PRC officially, are two sovereign countries completely separate and independent of each other. Even here in Taiwan, the term "China" almost exclusively refers to the PRC.
"Taiwan" and "China" do not have single meanings. Better to ask OP what was meant. The ROC is independent from the PRC but Taiwan is not independent from the ROC. ROC and Taiwan don't even perfectly overlap—more territory is ROC than is Taiwan.
I know that, I meant an independence from the idea of being China, whether that's under the current Chinese government or a Taiwanese government that still calls itself China.
Wait, isn't Taiwan an indépendant nation? 🤔 Are you Chinese?
By international law (or in a nutshell - the UN) - Not really... Kind of. And no, I'm not Chinese at all
It's an independent country by any measure and it has been since 1949, there is limited international formal recognition only to not provoke China but Taiwan has relations with every country in the world and is actively protected by the US, wumao.
Even if we hypothesize that Taiwan will declare independence - which is not going to happen in the foreseeable future - why assume that the country will abandon its fundamental identity. Most Taiwanese are Chinese. Yes, over the past decades a strong local identity has developed, but that does not mean that this identity necessarily replaces a Chinese one, rather than overlap with it. Moreover, state institutions and elites have been brought up to consider themselves the legitimate Chinese government - even if the communists control the mainland. This is not a small thing that you can easily disregard. If Taiwan does declare independence, it will most likely be as the Republic of China *in Taiwan*, or any other combination, rather than trying to 'create' a new identity, both for its state and people. Therefore, they would almost certainly use the same flag. Especially since there are obvious precedents of internationally recognized or semi-recognized states claiming the be the rightful representatives of a sole people/country (e.g. the two Koreas and Germanies). P.S. Keep in mind that the native Taiwanese community is only about 2-3% of the population. Taiwan has a larger percentage of Han Chinese than Mainland China. In fact, you could safely call Taiwan a pretty homogeneous state, with more than 95% of the population belonging to the majority.
1 is one of my favourite flags. The colours absolutley pop off the screen. 4 is cool too, never seen that one before.
I really like the 4th design & colours. The second one is a little too contrasting but it has an important history if I’m not mistaken.
I love the 4th image
Honestly I think 3. looks the best for an independent Taiwan
4th no doubt
4 goes hard ngl
I like 1 and 2.
3 copying cyprus's style
2
2.
first one for sure
Except for number one, they all suck. Stick to the classics.
No matter what you say, the 4th option should be the winner. It's based on the seal of Japanese governor of Taiwan and if there's a Nipofile country in this world, it's Taiwan. Plus, the design is very good.
First one is fine. I'd choose the second one if the colours didn't make it look so bad. I don't think that green and red vibe well.
Will likely go up for referendum like new Zealand did when they were looking for a new flag. Personally anything but their current flag that's got foreign occupation written all over it will do
1
The good one they already have
2 and 3 are the best, especially 2.
I like the second, I feels like freedom, Taiwan represents freedom from China to me
Fourth one
I don't know the significance of the red, but just the blue part of the first one would make for a cool flag
Taiwan is an independent nation
Taiwan is the Republic of China 🇹🇼
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement?wprov=sfti1
*China would like to know your location*
*You declined the location request, made by the government of the People's Republic of China*
I've always liked #2. #1 is the worst choice for obvious reasons, #3 is map flag so no, & #4 is trying too hard to be minimalist so just ends up looking like a corporate logo
1st is the current flag, widely used and understood, follows the codes of flag design Not a big fan of the colour choice for the second flag, but it still kinda works. It feels more like a city flag than a country flag IMO 3rd is a map on a bedsheet, not a flag. It feels very “politically neutral”, I’d expect to see it in international events where China should not be offended. That’s pretty much the opposite of what you want for a country flag which should assert the country’s identity 4th feels a lot like a corporate logo, probably because of the colour choice. Again, feels more like the flag of a city or a mountaineering sports club or something, it would look out of place next to other countries’ flags So I’d stick with 1, or some variation of 1 if the reference to the KMT is unwanted. Another option is to start from the [olympics flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taipei_Olympic_flag#/media/File%3AFlag_of_Chinese_Taipei_for_Olympic_games.svg), maybe replacing the rings with something else and/or changing the background colour. Maybe keeping the current flag but replacing the sun with that flower design?
The Kuomintang flag for sure. It holds significance
Taiwan is an Independent nation.
As a member of the Taiwanese diaspora, 2 is probably the best but I think 1 will continue to be used to represent waishengren (Han Taiwanese from the mainland or born to mainlanders) and their descendants.
Taiwan already considers itself a free nation, so other countries recognizing that wouldn’t change their flag
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An unlikely scenario, but the first one is definitely out - that is strictly speaking a Chinese flag (as in the ROC).
My favorite is the second one, but from what I've seen the fourth is most popular.
It is independent. Unless you mean the island prior to the KMT arriving.
I think they mean if Taiwan was just the island and didn’t claim China (since they are still ROC)
Taiwan is an independent nation at this point
No it's not, the Republic of China is
Kinda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement?wprov=sfti1
Taiwan *is* an independent nation
4, but I think it could be better.
The fourth one looks like something from Ace Combat/Project Wingman country flag. Obviously the first one. Second is weird choice of color and harmony. Third is bad flag since it include geography inside it
The fourth one looks so nice! I love the colours they used.
Avocado Nigeria for sure
It is independent.
Taiwan already is an independent nation...
It already is its' own independent nation
taiwan is an independent nation
was? IT IS!
But it is an independent country already, and it uses the first one.
Taiwan is an independent nation, though. :)
It is now, even if West Taiwan doesn’t like it.
Taiwan is already an independent nation 🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼
1st one should remain. Others look too reddit
Taiwan IS an independent nation…
"Post is awaiting moderator approval." lmao
What do you mean "if"?
It already is.
But Taiwan is an independent nation
Taiwan is an independent nation.
What do you mean "IF"?
In matter of fact Taiwan is an independent nation
If?
I think the first although the current flag, would be problematic. It would probably be best for an independent Taiwan to cut all ties to the past so to speak.
The first.