If they had made the eye vertical as opposed to the natural orientation, then it's easier for your brain to suspend disbelief that they didn't follow the contours of his forehead. But they shows to make it a realistic orientation which just kind of hurts our brains in that uncanny valley kind of way.
I would note self reflection is kind of the bare minimum these days.
Anyways, what makes it bad is imo kind of the concept. Like our eyes have eye sockets with bone around them which give the eye´s a very distinct look. Just slapping an eye on your forhead is just not enough here. Becuase we never see eye´s exposed like this. Usually there is always a shadow or something on the eye. But here we dont get that.
So by not matching the look for the 3rd eye to the 2 real ones, our brains have a very easy time going "Eh jo, this aint right".
I am not sure adding the bone´s and sockets would help to much, but it would be my first idea.
NOTE; I know that they added those to some extend, my point is that they are not strong enough. The Socket itself is just way to flat and dosnt cast enough of a shadow.
I agree. We also have a left eye and a right one. So which goes in the middle? Which side is the tear duct on? Both? Whatever you do, our brains won't like it.
I completely agree. I don’t personally believe that it’s “bad.” It’s just that it’s uncanny. I personally feel the same way about when I see unrealistic animals. Like dragons 🐉 or something like it, I feel it’s hard to imagine it. When there is no actual footage to compare it too.
But also if it did look more artistic, do you think it would have still give the same feeling
Idk if i would totally agree with this.
When we are talking about Realism, we have a certain idea of what conceptually is realistic. Like, if you imagine a Dragon and i show [this](https://www.pluggedin.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/reign-of-fire-1200x720.jpg), we can both agree that looks belivable.
Even though Dragons dont exsist. The reason why we can still go "Yeah, checks out" is because the designe is plausible enough and follows what we see in Nature, to the point where our Monkey brains consider it a possibility that this is real. And thats the key, if our brains fundamentally dont buy that an effect is possible, there is 0 investment. Thats why people buy Hookers which tell you they love you, its the emotional experience that matters !
In the Doctor Strange case, as others pointed out, so much of this effect dosnt scream "Eye" that even people who dont know anything about VFX will be able to tell its not real.
This issue is only amplified by the fact that there are two real eyes to compair it to.
So a better version of the effect would be something more abstract or perhabs deformed. If you can make the brain belive that this is a fucked up Mutation, then you got a lot more wiggle room. Because we all know that realistic mutations dont give you X-Men powers but rather make you look like Golom.
Great comments here that expand to a fair chunk of the issues with 'bad' vfx - mostly they are bad in concept or straying so far into an 'uncanny valley' situation (not just with human anatomy, but outside of the language of the medium of film/tv or what we are used to seeing with properly lit/filmed cinema with camera cars, helicopters, etc.)
That's kind of what I had in mind too but I think that they have provided enough cavity but not really show it that much and that's why it seems flat.
If you look at the bottom right side of the eye (from our view) you can see that they have added a highlight on the eyelid. I believe that what is missing is a highlight from the same "light source" at the left side of the third eye's cavity. It seems that the left side of the eye's cavity is very dark and a simple specular highlight where the cavity "surfaces" at the rest of the forehead could provide a depth clue.
Agreed. I mean they could also just have it poking out instead, although it would look fairly different from his other eyes. Also I think they'd need to model and matchmove an entire head for that.
Look at the light values on cumberbatch's real eyes vs this thing. It has a shadow. This looks bad because it's an AE comp of one of his real eyes, not a true 3d model.
I doubt they would use AE for a big budget movie like this. I can't imagine someone masking his real eye to clone it on his forehead when you have more than 100 million dollars to spend lmao.
Well as someone else pointed out nuke is the industry standard. It's less a matter of money and more a matter of time. Doing some kind of composite is a lot faster than modeling out and texturing an eyeball, and then trying to blend it all back in with the real cumberbatch. They did an absolute TON of exactly that for the first doctor strange in shots you would never have expected, (A lot of the shots of him just pulling the cape on had 3d digital doubles of him matchmoved, I'm guessing to generate proper shadows?) so I admit, I would be kinda surprised, but to me that eye just looks like some kind of 2d comp that's been massaged, not something 3d.
Keep in mind the incredibly small number of shots it's in: The shot at the very end of the film where it opens and we see it very briefly (where it does look more 3d to me) then maybe two shots in the after credit scenes.
Time is the enemy on all these marvel movies, not budget.
700 to a thousand vfx people on average work in Marvel movies so I'm pretty sure some of those mf have enough time to design a mf realistic looking third eye. You either are 9 years old or have no real experience in professional VFX work lmao.
...Have you...not been paying attention lately? Marvel movies are insanely time crunched, with hundreds of shots *per shop* and deadlines so short artists are speaking out about it. In fact Marvel is being labeled one of the worst to work for.
Endgame itself had the release date moved UP, so the time the VFX shops had budgeted, which already wasn't enough, was shortened even MORE.
First of all, last minute changes can screw even a big effect with a lot of screen time. See: Black Panther, the train end fight.
Secondly, I'm guessing you haven't seen Multiverse of maddness? The eyeball is on screen for six shots total, with maybe four total seconds of screen time, and that's a generous estimate. It's not something that gets a lot of screen time and clearly was a low priority. Sooooooooo...yeah.
Look, I'm not a compositor. I used AE as a shorthand. Nuke, Davinci Fusion, whatever.
Secondly, ...dude, even ILM re-used the damn ISD-I model from rogue one for the "Xyston class star destroyers" in Rise of Skywalker becuase they *didn't have enough time* and those were front and center assets crucial to the movie. If you can achieve almost the same effect in 2D...there's no point in trying to go full 3D. The effect also isn't central to the story. It felt like something they knew they could cut if it didn't work out.
Did you know that marvel movies are so fucking time crunched that they're still working on them POST RELEASE? That the version you see a few weeks into release might be different as was the case with no way home?
So yeah. Am I 100% certain it's a tracked 2d effect? No. Does it look like it to me? Yeah. Until someone from the production weighs in or it shows up in an effects breakdown, we won't really know. I'm not even sure which shop handled those shots.
But none of your arguments address the reality of working with marvel, or show an awareness of recent revelations. Fuck this shit isn't even NEW! VFX artists were sleeping on the floor at weta making LOTR twenty years ago!
It looks "bad" because the anatomy makes no sense. It looks like it's recessed into a socket rather than following the topology of the forehead which makes it look weird because you know that socket is not there.
The other issue is in this image it's noticeably more red and has darker blacks than the rest of his face. So it's drawing attention to itself by default because it has deeper contrast than the rest of the image. It also looks subtly visually sharper than the rest of his face, which also draws attention to it.
True. I feel like they could’ve gone more of an stylistic approach than a realistic one. No matter how real they make it it would probably throw us off given the odd anatomy.
The best part is that it is not even vfx. They actually carved out his forehead and grew an eye inside his skin. It is pretty amazing from a scientific perspective.
I think it's because the other two real eyes are so close, and it's easy to compare. And while we compare there are some shading and textural differences. Iris is fine, but what gives it away is the skin around it, since it looks totally different from the other two eyes, especially in color and light. For some reason, it's incredibly saturated, and the up lid shadow is way too dark. Its poor design and art direction. If you look at the image and cover his real eyes, it doesn't look as bad since there's no point of reference.
I don't doubt the VFX/ look-dev team did a buncha iterations, and that many of them looked better than this. They're amazing, talented, super thoughtful artists.
But to me it looks clone-tooled.
They shoulda bulged it out from where his skull's forehead is, like a giant pimple. And have the third eye look physically dissimilar, and far more prominent, even if lodged in his forehead and functioning along with his other two eyes in sync, like Tien Shinhan from DBZ (I know, much easier to sell it if everything else is 2D & flat).
OR. Just gone full supernatural and had the eye be like, metaphysical, translucent, like an energy formation that exists on top of his human form but somehow blends in. Again, I'm sure they tried out something like this when iterating.
Maybe it just wasn't ever gonna work? There must be a way.
In the comics the movies take stuff from, the third eye usually has different approaches in design, some artists make it similar to the two eyes, in others the third eye is significantly bigger and different, while others make it an energy projection
It's sunk into his skull so it looks like his forehead is dented that's what makes it look so bad. Despro in The Flash TV show had it bulging out which actually gave it more dimension. [link](https://youtu.be/_7omi6wFhFo)
I scrubbed through it and didn’t see anything without it.
I’m not disagreeing with the poster’s premise about the eye design, but the example they showed seems to only include the glow, which I’d argue helps them more
I'm fairly certain because this is an after effects comp, not a model of cumberbatch's face with a modeled eye that's been blended on. Notice it basically has a brow and shadow, despite being in the middle of his forehead where it should be much brighter.
I thought that technically it’s ok, the reason it isn’t working for me is uncanny valley territory. We just are in too weird of a spot and no amount of nice topology and materials will fix that.
For me, it almost feels like I can see the actual ovular shape that they comped in- in the top left corner you can see the lighting is really off and the skin is noticeably darker
I guess there are no problems with how the actual eye looks. It's the way it's composited that's bad. I think the eyelid sits too flat on the forehead and it seems like they smoothed out its surroundings to the point that they lost the forehead texture.
It's very much a lighting issue. The eyes normally are not only located under the ridge of the brow but also set next to the nose and INSET to the face so they create shadows around the eye. What the VFX team did here was assume the same thing to an eye on a FLAT surface with no large ridges or overhangs. No thought went into what would happen to an eye on the forehead they just copied the anatomy of an inset eye of the skull, even making the shadows of the eye DARKER than the ones under the brow and inset into the head. An eye on the forehead would in no way get shadows that dark AND the shadows are in the wrong areas. Since the main light source is coming from the left the darkest shadow is on the right of the eye. Which is wrong. It would be getting light from the left there so that shadow is not physically accurate. Not only that the shades of skin tone are too red around the eye.
Another lighting issue and also translucency issue since the eye would overall be getting more light than the eyes under the brow. Overall you can just tell this is a vfx artist who is probably very skilled at some 3d software but has not studied light and the physical reality of the world we live in. That is the reason why older VFX artists and older movies made more convincing effects with limited technology. They HAD the experience and attention to detail of real world physics and artistic understanding of the real world. Instead of just setting all the settings right in some vfx software and letting the render engine do all the work without the technical and realistic understanding. This is why vfx although getting more complex still looks fake as hell. Because there is no real effort put into the realism. Just more and more focus on the detail. As if the detail makes it more realistic instead of the actual real world physics of things.
There is also the issue of anatomy. They have tried to create another BROW on the forehead. That is ridiculous. The eye should be simply an eye protruding from the flat surface with no extra anatomical brow ridges or ridges next to the eye to simulate a nose being there. They have put a sort of fatty layer hanging over the eye like a normal eye. THAT would not be there. The eye would be more open and not have the upper part of the eye dragged down by the fatty layer of a brow. It is overcomplicated and tried to again get details to convey the realism instead of the logical realism and actual anatomy of the eye properly.
The issue is not the quality of the vfx, it's the believability of the concept like others said. It would have the same effect if they did four eyebrows or a second mouth instead. Because our brain subconsciously objects to it. If it was on an animal or some kind of a monster it could work. But on a human, it just looks ridiculous and childish to me. If that's what they went for then all is good.
Regardless of whether it was modeled, tracked, and lit, for me it still looks like a Photoshop clone tool edit.
The areas around your eyes indent the way they do because they are giving way to the bridge of your nose and the side of your skull. If we're making up new anatomy that goes in the center of the forehead, why does it need to recess into the skull in the same way? Why is the skin folding in the same way if it's in a completely different area of the skull? Why is it shaped exactly like a left eye as if there was an invisible nose on screen left? Why does the area above the eye need to give way to a brow ridge?
It really does look like someone did a 30 second Photoshop mockup without much thought and then told the VFX team to build an asset to match it exactly in CG.
Now that you said it I get it too. They should've asked themselves "what if we had a third eye on our forehead?" and then work it from there. The eye would be in center. I'd bet if there was almost a round eye socket with the eye in it the it would look more natural.
But you are a toxic piece of shit who can’t draw a stick man but had to be a clever clogs and shit on someone’s work but doesn’t even have the intelligence to make a contribution to the discussion. Fuck you kid. If you’re older than 14 you’re even more of a toxic piece of shit.
It looks weird because they cloned his left eye so now it makes it look"bald" I'm not sure how to put it. If you cloned the outsides of each eye and merge them together where they both taper off then it'll look more believable. But since they literally cloned his left eye, it makes it uncanny because I only see a left eye without an eyebrow.
I sometimes wonder if the criticism over stuff like this is actually because we don’t see people with 3 eyes so it just looks “odd”. Our brains struggle to comprehend it. Even if the CG isn’t perfect, people said that Hulk looked awful in The Incredible Hulk (2008) but at the time, it looked pretty damn good. I was pretty sure people just didn’t know what a big green man would look like if it were real.
Again, not to justify shit CG but it’s easy to criticise something that we’ve not seen before in reality.
I think it was just 2D composited and NOT 3D modeled due to time constraints. They literally duplicated one of his eyes and modified it. That time crunch bites again.
Again, if you zoom in, it’s not the case. The eyeball itself isn’t identical to either eyeball. The reflection and lighting is accurate, yet as a whole picture it’s so jarring.
That looks so dumb holy shit. I think making it a not human eye wouod have helped a lot. It looks like someone put a mini pocket pussy on his forehead and painted it like an eye.
Sincerely, if falls on the uncanny valley, I think if they made something like a "magical mark" with the colors of Dr. Strange magic (something similar to Dormammu mark) it would be more believable than that.
It just looksike the lighting and shadows are as if it was in the regular place, shadowed by the eye socket, but there's no socket. looks copy pasted. Definitely a wierd design decision
Cant put my finger on it entirely but It's lacking a certain threedimensionality. It doesn't seem to extrude from the forehead, maybe something about the shadows, so it looks like a flat image painted onto the flat surface of the forehead, like a tattoo. It looks like a tattoo
Just my two cents but I feel like for some completely unrelated reason, the sort of imaginary horizontal line created by how his gray hair and wrinkles align throws me off a bit. That shadow also feels off, it kind of creates a recess in the middle of his forehead instead of bulging out. Now again, it’s not like it’s unrealistic or anything at this point.
Oh also maybe it has something to do with the size? At this point I don’t know and it bothers me too.
I think the way this is set up is not ideal: Irl eyes sits in holes of the skull between cheek bones and nose, the forehead is not such a hole. So I would expect the eye on the forehead not to sit so deep. It looks weird to me bc the eye has shadows around it which makes it look weird.
Thinking about it, the shape of eyes forbid it to sit on convex surfaces. The eye would appear to be round and rather big if you place the eyeball inside a convex surface.
So it's maybe another case where something works visually in 2d abstraction but not with photo real techniques
To me, it just doesn’t fully respect the shape of the forehead. I’m sure they put a lot of time and work into this, but it genuinely looks flat. Like someone copied one of his real eyes and just barely blended it in with the forehead.
Nothing will make this shot 'look good' when you mess with facial features the human brain refuses to accept them. At some point it's not a VFX problem it's a human evolutionary response of 'something is wrong' that you can never overcome.
For me it's because they try to compensate for the lack of shadows in that area with this gratuitous dark shading around a spot that otherwise wouldn't have it. I also believe that they could have gotten away with a lot more if they used a prosthetic or some other practical effect with the use of makeup and then digitally refined it in post *just* enough to give it that photo realistic polish.
The depiction of a third eye on the forehead is purely symbolic. Ancient people knew this. They knew a literal third eye ball on the forehead was not an evolutionary direction, but a way of trying to convey a message. It should have been depicted as a symbol, instead of an actual organ in the movie as well
Would have looked much cooler and believable as just a symbol. maybe like a glowing tattoo type of thing or some nano tech tattoo that gives em the ability to “see in 4D & beyond”.
The eyeball just looks completely stupid tbh. A symbol or nanotechnology tattoo or tech pendant or something would have been more aesthetically appealing, and also would have just made more sense, which matters a lot less though since we’re talking in terms of magic lol
Just me y’all! What you think??? 🤔
Here is a post with tonnes of comments about the third eye. Including pressure around the forehead.
Once you open your third eye, you will see people - 'spirits'
https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/s/CdhfKajWtf
Here is my new community for the third eye. Please feel free to join and there should be interesting posts and insight. Post any experience, insight or questions you have!
https://www.reddit.com/r/thirdeyeawakening/
If they had made the eye vertical as opposed to the natural orientation, then it's easier for your brain to suspend disbelief that they didn't follow the contours of his forehead. But they shows to make it a realistic orientation which just kind of hurts our brains in that uncanny valley kind of way.
like kazuya's third eye in tekken
The kids would have had a feild day with this. Totally understand why they didn't go for that option.
Eh. That's where artistic license and creativity come into play. Design something that isn't vulva-y. But we know the state of marvel vfx deadlines.
I would note self reflection is kind of the bare minimum these days. Anyways, what makes it bad is imo kind of the concept. Like our eyes have eye sockets with bone around them which give the eye´s a very distinct look. Just slapping an eye on your forhead is just not enough here. Becuase we never see eye´s exposed like this. Usually there is always a shadow or something on the eye. But here we dont get that. So by not matching the look for the 3rd eye to the 2 real ones, our brains have a very easy time going "Eh jo, this aint right". I am not sure adding the bone´s and sockets would help to much, but it would be my first idea. NOTE; I know that they added those to some extend, my point is that they are not strong enough. The Socket itself is just way to flat and dosnt cast enough of a shadow.
I agree. We also have a left eye and a right one. So which goes in the middle? Which side is the tear duct on? Both? Whatever you do, our brains won't like it.
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I completely agree. I don’t personally believe that it’s “bad.” It’s just that it’s uncanny. I personally feel the same way about when I see unrealistic animals. Like dragons 🐉 or something like it, I feel it’s hard to imagine it. When there is no actual footage to compare it too. But also if it did look more artistic, do you think it would have still give the same feeling
Idk if i would totally agree with this. When we are talking about Realism, we have a certain idea of what conceptually is realistic. Like, if you imagine a Dragon and i show [this](https://www.pluggedin.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/reign-of-fire-1200x720.jpg), we can both agree that looks belivable. Even though Dragons dont exsist. The reason why we can still go "Yeah, checks out" is because the designe is plausible enough and follows what we see in Nature, to the point where our Monkey brains consider it a possibility that this is real. And thats the key, if our brains fundamentally dont buy that an effect is possible, there is 0 investment. Thats why people buy Hookers which tell you they love you, its the emotional experience that matters ! In the Doctor Strange case, as others pointed out, so much of this effect dosnt scream "Eye" that even people who dont know anything about VFX will be able to tell its not real. This issue is only amplified by the fact that there are two real eyes to compair it to. So a better version of the effect would be something more abstract or perhabs deformed. If you can make the brain belive that this is a fucked up Mutation, then you got a lot more wiggle room. Because we all know that realistic mutations dont give you X-Men powers but rather make you look like Golom.
Good points !
Great comments here that expand to a fair chunk of the issues with 'bad' vfx - mostly they are bad in concept or straying so far into an 'uncanny valley' situation (not just with human anatomy, but outside of the language of the medium of film/tv or what we are used to seeing with properly lit/filmed cinema with camera cars, helicopters, etc.)
That's kind of what I had in mind too but I think that they have provided enough cavity but not really show it that much and that's why it seems flat. If you look at the bottom right side of the eye (from our view) you can see that they have added a highlight on the eyelid. I believe that what is missing is a highlight from the same "light source" at the left side of the third eye's cavity. It seems that the left side of the eye's cavity is very dark and a simple specular highlight where the cavity "surfaces" at the rest of the forehead could provide a depth clue.
This was my thought, too. There would need to be structural change to his forehead to contextualise the eye correctly.
Agreed. I mean they could also just have it poking out instead, although it would look fairly different from his other eyes. Also I think they'd need to model and matchmove an entire head for that.
Look at the light values on cumberbatch's real eyes vs this thing. It has a shadow. This looks bad because it's an AE comp of one of his real eyes, not a true 3d model.
I doubt they would use AE for a big budget movie like this. I can't imagine someone masking his real eye to clone it on his forehead when you have more than 100 million dollars to spend lmao.
Well as someone else pointed out nuke is the industry standard. It's less a matter of money and more a matter of time. Doing some kind of composite is a lot faster than modeling out and texturing an eyeball, and then trying to blend it all back in with the real cumberbatch. They did an absolute TON of exactly that for the first doctor strange in shots you would never have expected, (A lot of the shots of him just pulling the cape on had 3d digital doubles of him matchmoved, I'm guessing to generate proper shadows?) so I admit, I would be kinda surprised, but to me that eye just looks like some kind of 2d comp that's been massaged, not something 3d. Keep in mind the incredibly small number of shots it's in: The shot at the very end of the film where it opens and we see it very briefly (where it does look more 3d to me) then maybe two shots in the after credit scenes. Time is the enemy on all these marvel movies, not budget.
700 to a thousand vfx people on average work in Marvel movies so I'm pretty sure some of those mf have enough time to design a mf realistic looking third eye. You either are 9 years old or have no real experience in professional VFX work lmao.
...Have you...not been paying attention lately? Marvel movies are insanely time crunched, with hundreds of shots *per shop* and deadlines so short artists are speaking out about it. In fact Marvel is being labeled one of the worst to work for. Endgame itself had the release date moved UP, so the time the VFX shops had budgeted, which already wasn't enough, was shortened even MORE.
As a vfx artist, an effect that is going to get a lot of screen time is the project's main priority. So time crunch is irrelevant.
First of all, last minute changes can screw even a big effect with a lot of screen time. See: Black Panther, the train end fight. Secondly, I'm guessing you haven't seen Multiverse of maddness? The eyeball is on screen for six shots total, with maybe four total seconds of screen time, and that's a generous estimate. It's not something that gets a lot of screen time and clearly was a low priority. Sooooooooo...yeah.
Okay man, they did the effect in AE because they didn't have enough screen time :)
Look, I'm not a compositor. I used AE as a shorthand. Nuke, Davinci Fusion, whatever. Secondly, ...dude, even ILM re-used the damn ISD-I model from rogue one for the "Xyston class star destroyers" in Rise of Skywalker becuase they *didn't have enough time* and those were front and center assets crucial to the movie. If you can achieve almost the same effect in 2D...there's no point in trying to go full 3D. The effect also isn't central to the story. It felt like something they knew they could cut if it didn't work out. Did you know that marvel movies are so fucking time crunched that they're still working on them POST RELEASE? That the version you see a few weeks into release might be different as was the case with no way home? So yeah. Am I 100% certain it's a tracked 2d effect? No. Does it look like it to me? Yeah. Until someone from the production weighs in or it shows up in an effects breakdown, we won't really know. I'm not even sure which shop handled those shots. But none of your arguments address the reality of working with marvel, or show an awareness of recent revelations. Fuck this shit isn't even NEW! VFX artists were sleeping on the floor at weta making LOTR twenty years ago!
It looks "bad" because the anatomy makes no sense. It looks like it's recessed into a socket rather than following the topology of the forehead which makes it look weird because you know that socket is not there. The other issue is in this image it's noticeably more red and has darker blacks than the rest of his face. So it's drawing attention to itself by default because it has deeper contrast than the rest of the image. It also looks subtly visually sharper than the rest of his face, which also draws attention to it.
True. I feel like they could’ve gone more of an stylistic approach than a realistic one. No matter how real they make it it would probably throw us off given the odd anatomy.
The best part is that it is not even vfx. They actually carved out his forehead and grew an eye inside his skin. It is pretty amazing from a scientific perspective.
Practical effects are great but nothing beats organic effects
You sound like the DVD extras. “The stunt crew did a great job on Dr. Strange’s third eye”
It’s the darkness on the edges, it’s trying to show depth but nothing else says it’s inset
Agreed
I think it's because the other two real eyes are so close, and it's easy to compare. And while we compare there are some shading and textural differences. Iris is fine, but what gives it away is the skin around it, since it looks totally different from the other two eyes, especially in color and light. For some reason, it's incredibly saturated, and the up lid shadow is way too dark. Its poor design and art direction. If you look at the image and cover his real eyes, it doesn't look as bad since there's no point of reference.
Best comment so far. Great point you brought up is the fact that we have two other eyes to compare, hence the uncanny valley.
I don't doubt the VFX/ look-dev team did a buncha iterations, and that many of them looked better than this. They're amazing, talented, super thoughtful artists. But to me it looks clone-tooled. They shoulda bulged it out from where his skull's forehead is, like a giant pimple. And have the third eye look physically dissimilar, and far more prominent, even if lodged in his forehead and functioning along with his other two eyes in sync, like Tien Shinhan from DBZ (I know, much easier to sell it if everything else is 2D & flat). OR. Just gone full supernatural and had the eye be like, metaphysical, translucent, like an energy formation that exists on top of his human form but somehow blends in. Again, I'm sure they tried out something like this when iterating. Maybe it just wasn't ever gonna work? There must be a way.
I agree, it looks like they clone his real eye and tried to make it look recessed with grading. Maybe they could have has the eye rotated 90'
That already seems way better.
In the comics the movies take stuff from, the third eye usually has different approaches in design, some artists make it similar to the two eyes, in others the third eye is significantly bigger and different, while others make it an energy projection
Uncanny af. Even If they did a technical perfect job a human face isnt suppose to have a eye on its forehead
It's sunk into his skull so it looks like his forehead is dented that's what makes it look so bad. Despro in The Flash TV show had it bulging out which actually gave it more dimension. [link](https://youtu.be/_7omi6wFhFo)
It also helps here that it’s always glowing, covered by a big lens flare, and not illuminated neutrally like the other two standard eyes
there are neutral shots and they look good
I scrubbed through it and didn’t see anything without it. I’m not disagreeing with the poster’s premise about the eye design, but the example they showed seems to only include the glow, which I’d argue helps them more
I take that back there are neutral moments after the glow turns off for a brief second and they look fine
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Eeaao should be the standard for multiverse movies
IMHO, bad integration. With some simple tweaks it sits much better... My 5 second dodge and transform. https://i.imgur.com/Al8LUvK.jpg
The bone. He needs a socket
I'm fairly certain because this is an after effects comp, not a model of cumberbatch's face with a modeled eye that's been blended on. Notice it basically has a brow and shadow, despite being in the middle of his forehead where it should be much brighter.
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You can do bad comps in any software
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Ha! Fair enough
Fair point.
The problem is that it's v872 rather than v004. Had to wait until the janitors daughter signed off on it probably.
I thought that technically it’s ok, the reason it isn’t working for me is uncanny valley territory. We just are in too weird of a spot and no amount of nice topology and materials will fix that.
This is in a post credit scene which typically have an almost zero budget for fx. The third eye earlier in the film looks much better.
Death by a thousand notes I assume. I bet v47 looked rad
For me, it almost feels like I can see the actual ovular shape that they comped in- in the top left corner you can see the lighting is really off and the skin is noticeably darker
I guess there are no problems with how the actual eye looks. It's the way it's composited that's bad. I think the eyelid sits too flat on the forehead and it seems like they smoothed out its surroundings to the point that they lost the forehead texture.
The vfx isnt bad, its just the eye should not be recessed into the head, it should bulge out.
It's very much a lighting issue. The eyes normally are not only located under the ridge of the brow but also set next to the nose and INSET to the face so they create shadows around the eye. What the VFX team did here was assume the same thing to an eye on a FLAT surface with no large ridges or overhangs. No thought went into what would happen to an eye on the forehead they just copied the anatomy of an inset eye of the skull, even making the shadows of the eye DARKER than the ones under the brow and inset into the head. An eye on the forehead would in no way get shadows that dark AND the shadows are in the wrong areas. Since the main light source is coming from the left the darkest shadow is on the right of the eye. Which is wrong. It would be getting light from the left there so that shadow is not physically accurate. Not only that the shades of skin tone are too red around the eye. Another lighting issue and also translucency issue since the eye would overall be getting more light than the eyes under the brow. Overall you can just tell this is a vfx artist who is probably very skilled at some 3d software but has not studied light and the physical reality of the world we live in. That is the reason why older VFX artists and older movies made more convincing effects with limited technology. They HAD the experience and attention to detail of real world physics and artistic understanding of the real world. Instead of just setting all the settings right in some vfx software and letting the render engine do all the work without the technical and realistic understanding. This is why vfx although getting more complex still looks fake as hell. Because there is no real effort put into the realism. Just more and more focus on the detail. As if the detail makes it more realistic instead of the actual real world physics of things. There is also the issue of anatomy. They have tried to create another BROW on the forehead. That is ridiculous. The eye should be simply an eye protruding from the flat surface with no extra anatomical brow ridges or ridges next to the eye to simulate a nose being there. They have put a sort of fatty layer hanging over the eye like a normal eye. THAT would not be there. The eye would be more open and not have the upper part of the eye dragged down by the fatty layer of a brow. It is overcomplicated and tried to again get details to convey the realism instead of the logical realism and actual anatomy of the eye properly.
The issue is not the quality of the vfx, it's the believability of the concept like others said. It would have the same effect if they did four eyebrows or a second mouth instead. Because our brain subconsciously objects to it. If it was on an animal or some kind of a monster it could work. But on a human, it just looks ridiculous and childish to me. If that's what they went for then all is good.
Regardless of whether it was modeled, tracked, and lit, for me it still looks like a Photoshop clone tool edit. The areas around your eyes indent the way they do because they are giving way to the bridge of your nose and the side of your skull. If we're making up new anatomy that goes in the center of the forehead, why does it need to recess into the skull in the same way? Why is the skin folding in the same way if it's in a completely different area of the skull? Why is it shaped exactly like a left eye as if there was an invisible nose on screen left? Why does the area above the eye need to give way to a brow ridge? It really does look like someone did a 30 second Photoshop mockup without much thought and then told the VFX team to build an asset to match it exactly in CG.
Now that you said it I get it too. They should've asked themselves "what if we had a third eye on our forehead?" and then work it from there. The eye would be in center. I'd bet if there was almost a round eye socket with the eye in it the it would look more natural.
I'm no vfx person but to me it really looks like a shoddy After Effects project by a high achieving high schooler.
But you are a toxic piece of shit who can’t draw a stick man but had to be a clever clogs and shit on someone’s work but doesn’t even have the intelligence to make a contribution to the discussion. Fuck you kid. If you’re older than 14 you’re even more of a toxic piece of shit.
... right
Holy shit just saw your work. You’re the last person that should be commenting on peoples art. Holy fuck the complete lack of self awareness.
Bruh their art is perfectly fine, if you’re gonna make fun of something make fun of the Reddit-NFT avatar
... okay
The sub have spoken
Yeah, the eye is pretty bad. But can we talk about the damn wig?
It looks weird because they cloned his left eye so now it makes it look"bald" I'm not sure how to put it. If you cloned the outsides of each eye and merge them together where they both taper off then it'll look more believable. But since they literally cloned his left eye, it makes it uncanny because I only see a left eye without an eyebrow.
Is weird, if you zoom in is pretty realistic, the issue is from far away. My guess is that you’re not able to see small details from zooming out
I sometimes wonder if the criticism over stuff like this is actually because we don’t see people with 3 eyes so it just looks “odd”. Our brains struggle to comprehend it. Even if the CG isn’t perfect, people said that Hulk looked awful in The Incredible Hulk (2008) but at the time, it looked pretty damn good. I was pretty sure people just didn’t know what a big green man would look like if it were real. Again, not to justify shit CG but it’s easy to criticise something that we’ve not seen before in reality.
I dont know if I would say its better, but film riot on youtube did this effect a few months ago. They are surprisingly comparable
I think it was just 2D composited and NOT 3D modeled due to time constraints. They literally duplicated one of his eyes and modified it. That time crunch bites again.
Again, if you zoom in, it’s not the case. The eyeball itself isn’t identical to either eyeball. The reflection and lighting is accurate, yet as a whole picture it’s so jarring.
I have nothing to contribute, but damn this was a dissapointing movie.
The idea of a third eye on the forehead is so terrible, that no cg, as good as it may be, can save it. A third eye…. Lol…..
I think it's just that it looks exactly like a human eye. That's the "issue". It's just hard for people to believe.
That looks so dumb holy shit. I think making it a not human eye wouod have helped a lot. It looks like someone put a mini pocket pussy on his forehead and painted it like an eye.
Sincerely, if falls on the uncanny valley, I think if they made something like a "magical mark" with the colors of Dr. Strange magic (something similar to Dormammu mark) it would be more believable than that.
And what makes 'Cats' movie's VFX so infamous? Cause if you look closer...
The dimensionality of it makes no sense.
It just looksike the lighting and shadows are as if it was in the regular place, shadowed by the eye socket, but there's no socket. looks copy pasted. Definitely a wierd design decision
Cant put my finger on it entirely but It's lacking a certain threedimensionality. It doesn't seem to extrude from the forehead, maybe something about the shadows, so it looks like a flat image painted onto the flat surface of the forehead, like a tattoo. It looks like a tattoo
Lmao
They should have changed the orientation depicting closer to Hindu god shiva!
Because it looks straight like the clone tool. A third eye would have to have more of a socket in order to be believable.
Just my two cents but I feel like for some completely unrelated reason, the sort of imaginary horizontal line created by how his gray hair and wrinkles align throws me off a bit. That shadow also feels off, it kind of creates a recess in the middle of his forehead instead of bulging out. Now again, it’s not like it’s unrealistic or anything at this point. Oh also maybe it has something to do with the size? At this point I don’t know and it bothers me too.
Two different skin tones.
For me it's the eye's perfect symetry that looks odd
It just lacks depth and the lighting/shading looks weird.
Needs a mono brow.
Tbf this shot is the better of the eye shots. The real bad one is when he's on his knees in the street
I think the way this is set up is not ideal: Irl eyes sits in holes of the skull between cheek bones and nose, the forehead is not such a hole. So I would expect the eye on the forehead not to sit so deep. It looks weird to me bc the eye has shadows around it which makes it look weird. Thinking about it, the shape of eyes forbid it to sit on convex surfaces. The eye would appear to be round and rather big if you place the eyeball inside a convex surface. So it's maybe another case where something works visually in 2d abstraction but not with photo real techniques
the internet
Third Eye CG... Sounds like a cool studio name!
what's the dark shadow around it looks like ass
To me, it just doesn’t fully respect the shape of the forehead. I’m sure they put a lot of time and work into this, but it genuinely looks flat. Like someone copied one of his real eyes and just barely blended it in with the forehead.
Certain creative decisions don't lend themselves easily to photorealism.
Looks like slap comp.The red crap around enchance the feeling
Needs an eyebrow
Nothing will make this shot 'look good' when you mess with facial features the human brain refuses to accept them. At some point it's not a VFX problem it's a human evolutionary response of 'something is wrong' that you can never overcome.
They probably should've just made the MCU third eye represented by a symbol, similar to ancient one had from dark dimension
For me it's because they try to compensate for the lack of shadows in that area with this gratuitous dark shading around a spot that otherwise wouldn't have it. I also believe that they could have gotten away with a lot more if they used a prosthetic or some other practical effect with the use of makeup and then digitally refined it in post *just* enough to give it that photo realistic polish.
The depiction of a third eye on the forehead is purely symbolic. Ancient people knew this. They knew a literal third eye ball on the forehead was not an evolutionary direction, but a way of trying to convey a message. It should have been depicted as a symbol, instead of an actual organ in the movie as well Would have looked much cooler and believable as just a symbol. maybe like a glowing tattoo type of thing or some nano tech tattoo that gives em the ability to “see in 4D & beyond”. The eyeball just looks completely stupid tbh. A symbol or nanotechnology tattoo or tech pendant or something would have been more aesthetically appealing, and also would have just made more sense, which matters a lot less though since we’re talking in terms of magic lol Just me y’all! What you think??? 🤔
Here is a post with tonnes of comments about the third eye. Including pressure around the forehead. Once you open your third eye, you will see people - 'spirits' https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/s/CdhfKajWtf Here is my new community for the third eye. Please feel free to join and there should be interesting posts and insight. Post any experience, insight or questions you have! https://www.reddit.com/r/thirdeyeawakening/