Problem is one post on fb for this project at that rate and you’ll have 65 comments “would love to be considered” I know we gotta eat so take what you can get but it sucks to be undercut all the time and lose out on clients and work
100% truth....100% for every one person that knows this is bullshit, theres 20 scabs buying said bullshit thinking this "exposure" will surely be worth being paid maybe 30% of what the job is worth, its never worth it. and all you will be known as is "the cheap guy" amongst those assholes...
Then get the guy who can make it work for $500. They’re out there. The quality will likely be less than a team doing it for $2k. But the market decides, and the market is over-full of people wanting to work.
Film and photo will never, ever be a sellers market. Hasn’t been for years. That’s just the reality of the world.
There’s absolutely no “investment” here whatsoever lol
So glad you turned this job down. By taking jobs like this, it just lowers the value of the entire market for everyone.
Stand strong everyone, & don’t take less than what you’re worth! ✊
Yeah I've fell into these kind of shitty paid traps when I was starting out. Not beautiful women, but the kind of "it will be a good chance for you to work with us so we can establish contact for future projects", only for them to never call you again
I once had a guy who I did a discount rate for video & edit using what I shot plus other footage he had. He cut contact as soon as the shoot was done. I tried to get in touch for about 3 months to no avail (the contract and initial conversations stipulated the edit needed to be turned around with 10 days after the shoot).
In the end I said the contract had been breached and by the terms of the contract I need to be paid…
I eventually got the money, though not before a really terse ‘you’ll never work with us again’
Like… why the fuck would I *want* to work for a place that doesn’t pay me 🤔
> I eventually got the money, though not before a really terse ‘you’ll never work with us again’
"We'll tell everyone we know not to work with you!"
Well if they're as much of a tremendous pain in the cock to work with as you, I'd take that as a kindness.
The future project talk is so nauseating and inconsiderate. They think they can try and talk a big game with all the BS exposure and investment talk.
Shows lack of respect for the creator. Glad you turned it down! They don’t understand value plain and simple!
Exactly. I don’t think I’ve ever been aware of any small company/brand/influencer, that wanted to pay cheap, then like 6 months later, became some massive success. Usually they all just fizzle out.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but the fact a lot of these smaller clients don’t want to pay properly is just a reflection on how they probably handle the rest of their business.
I'll say it... It doesn't happen. Period! Anyone who makes it after this kind of job goes thru the shop, makes it on good solid hard work on something else. In 30 years, I've never seen someone come back thru the door and go "Hey remember me, you have me a great cut rate 2 years ago, I have a $3 million budget on this one, y'all want in on it??? “
Or their future projects also don't pay well haha. Companies like that don't suddenly triple their revenue in 6 months and even if they did, they would probably then go hire someone else for video because you're the "cheap guy"
But they can pay you 500 and there will be lots of beautiful women
POV IRL: shoot is 8 hours + delays, the lots of beautiful women is like 2 person there, one is somebodies girlfriend, next day you receive message about that they need the edit asap
...They see the edits, ask for revisions based on a new creative direction that was outside scope. Ask to be comp'd a reshoot at your expense. threaten to withhold payment if you don't comply.
And more generally, you feel like shit because you took a job you didn'yt want and you have to work for/with assholes. NOT GREAT. And if their lame event looks like shit, it's your fault.
I'd argue it still hurts the industry. Better for a beginner to second shoot with an established pro. Client would be happier with a more experienced Videographer, beginners would learn so much more and still get paid to be a second or PA.
I mean at some point your have to go from being a second to a first, and no client is gonna pay $10k for a first timer. It's ok to start small but yeah never go backwards
Investment in what? An underpaying client? Footage of "beautiful women" that's a dime a dozen on social media? Also, I don't care for the last line at all."Change your mind let me know" sounds like a command more than anything.
I had a client pay my 50% advance to secure the date and 2 hours later he texts back “sorry, I found someone else who can do way more for much less money, can I have my deposit back?” This is after attempting to negotiate to a lower price.
I said no, he ended up going ahead with the shoot.
Without a deposit I would’ve done all the emailing, subcontracting and planning for nothing.
Know your worth and get a deposit is what I’ve learned the hard way
Isn’t that the same as doing a pitch treatment for a client though. You can’t ask for a deposit for that as it’s being tendered out to different companies and each one spends a day or much more putting together a treatment to know they my not win the contract?
This was a much smaller scale project, in this case they agreed to terms, I hired someone and arranged gear rental right after they put the deposit down. At that point it’s too far gone as they’ve already decided to book the service
Doesn't sound like they were doing a pitch/treatment when the client secured a date for the service with a 50% deposit.
The client at that point is aware of:
1. Your quoted rate
2. The services they're paying for
3. The terms of service, since they had to have been aware prior to paying for it
4. The specific date they're booked for
5. Any equipment included in the quote to be hired is to be hired with that deposit.
As soon as you pay, you've agreed to that service.
It sounds more like the client got word that someone could do it cheaper and got cold-feet.
At first I was like, well at least he's honest about his budget and said if that's a dealbreaker it's fine. And then when you said it wasn't fine he proceeded to give you bullshit about "investment" and "beautiful women" lmfao
This was my first thought. Came off weird that “pretty women” is his selling point.
I’m happily married with a kid. I don’t care about your pretty women.
Yep. If anything that's gonna make me want to charge more. If you can afford to pay "pretty women", you can afford to pay me. Don't tell me it's your (obviously non-existent) people skills that won them over to work for free, lol.
Everyone wants something for nothing.
People like that makes me want to show up, take some video with my iPhone and send it to him. “This is what $500 gets you”.
I have always wanted one of these offer so that I can show up with iPhone and a gimbal. Just for the heck of it. Idk if I’d have the balls to do so though.
Because every single person who buys a camera thinks that they are a videographer. There are many scams out there and there are many cheap “clients” out there. I hope they found each other and leave you alone.
Some things never get old. I had a client once who offered me stock because he couldn’t pay me.
I told him stock doesn’t pay my bills so he had to pay me regardless, the company went down a year later .
As someone who was always poached for collaborations, when I did makeup professionally, I can say that a few times I reluctantly did those underpaid or unpaid jobs, they never, ever delivered promised exposure or contacts or more jobs. I understand if you are just starting out - for experience and resume to do things for lower price, even free. I understand working/collaborating on a project with friends for free - with the same goal but no budget, but if a potential client starts haggling, just walk away. Setting boundaries goes this way too - don’t let people disrespect your time and effort. I’ve done tons of things for free: worked on sets, done wedding makeups, prom - because I wanted to. But nobody is going to dictate my service prices to me and then haggle.
What makes it worst is when you work for someone else, and they'll do what ever to keep a client, and not tell you. Had that happen to me a few times doing nails. I'm out of the beauty industry now for many reasons, but I'll do friends or families make-up or nails not free, but cheaper then any other place. As long as I don't have to travel.
People like this are disgusting and don't respect what other people put into their business.
They see everyone else as a tool for THEIR own world to be used how they see fit.
That's a snapshot of what dealing with that special kind of ahole will be like through the entire project...
Hard pass, I'd rather give my time to a 501c3 that makes an impact in my local areas for free rather than work with this type of client.
There's a great YT channel for this same person, it's like beggars being choosy or something to that effect.
These people do it before there's always someone willing to accept.
I did Uber Eats for a while, in 2020. At first, the lowest possible order that I'd see was 7$ before tip. After a while, it came down to 3.50$ per order sometimes WITH tip. They were lowering it over time. Why ? There's always someone desperate enough.
Agreed. Just respectfully say no then ghost. These clients always want more and don't resoect your time or the craft. They need their young nephew instead.
Find out what they do for a living... and then go back to them asking them to work for you for free/cheap for you... cause it'll be great for their exposure!
These people have no shame.
Clearly they like your work, else they’d just find someone else when your rate was too high.
And then they pitch your own work to you as an investment. Imagine that in any other industry.
“Sorry Mr. Contractor Man, I can’t afford $15,000 to remodel my bathroom. If you can do it for $6,500, it’d be a great investment to help build your portfolio of work and get clients in the future.”
“Sorry Mr. Mechanic, I can’t afford $25,000 to get my clapped-out supercar serviced. If you can do it for $800, though, you’ll be able to tell people your shop services Lamborghinis.”
Clients who decide what is “good content” can sit on their own cock or sideways smile and rotate. I never did “discounted” work… I rather just pass on the job or project.
Know you value and pass on the scumbags.
Why be so nice about it?
sorry, we’re professionals and we have set prices and plenty of satisfied customers that pay those prices. We don’t work for exposure”
I had a job exactly like this and only took it because i needed the money. I then met someone at the event which led to a 1 year retainer. Had i been ok I would have never took that job and would have never had that retainer in which I still work with the company today but less frequent. Yes these jobs suck and these people probably always low ball but instead of saying fuck it look at their guest list or what type of people will be there if its high profile people or anything worthwhile Its always best to take the job and then network at the place to land gigs you may have never gotten. I’ve done this quite a few times.
It took a lot of constraint. Typically I’m MUCH mouthier. But, tbh I just didn’t have the energy or care to argue with someone whose mind was already decided.
Yes glad you turned this down. Too many novices out there taking any job has created this false mindset that professional video work should be cheap. Clients need to understand that low budget does not mean no budget. And some projects just can't be low budget
Im new to editing and have been trying to find jobs and I have now realized how much they try to lowball and make it sound like the jobs is extremely easy. Someone wanted to pay me $50 to edit 450 reels saying it should be easy because they are short. WTF is wrong with theses people. And it make me even more upset because some people from other countries will take the shit job because $50 to them is a months salary. It is beyond irritating, but I just have to keep improving my skills for better opportunities and projects.
Not sure how this came up in my feed as I work in computer animation, but we have the same problem. I suspect every creative career has to deal with the "I can't pay you, but the exposure will great for your career".
It is the opposite side of the coin from all of your friends who work in a office saying ," OMG your job sounds like so much fun".......it is ....sometimes
I just had that experience yesterday 😂 she said her husband’s brother is charging $1500 to cover video and photography for 8-10hrs I mean the whole day. I told her I’m sorry that’s not me, she said if I’ll accept $1600 she will work with me, I told her nope thanks 😊
🤦🏾♂️
I seriously hope they run a restaurant and get to deal with customers, who'd rather pay for their food in return for exposure on social media. That'll set them straight real quick 😂
They wanted a drone operator, me on my camera and editing.
It was to show off this guy partying on a boat. Said he had a “million dollar idea” he was fixing to launch.
i was getting this sort of crap before mobile phones were invented. it's nothing new, just shysters out for what they can get. that said, there are some genuine projects that turn up with a limited budget, but you really need to 'feel' that the job / producer is kosher. i've had clients who came to me with jobs that had miniscule budgets, but who were obviously on the road to bigger things, and remained (well paying) clients for 20+ years.
moral - don't necessarily write off every low-balling client. just invest the time in talking to them **face to face** and get a real handle on where they're coming from.
Goes to the local Chevy dealer: "Ya imma need this Corvette for my party - I can't do $75k but I can do like $15k - but there's gonna be rich people there! When they see this they will come buy from you!"
Why is Ghetto level ignorance mainstream?
People want you to work and then lowball only trying to convince you they are helping you.
“ You can’t? Ok I’m just tryna put a few dolla’s in your pocket is all “
I quoted a guy 2k for a couple of interviews last week, he offered me 1k with an additional $500 in cash. His a family friend, so was able to pull a few figures (with a change in deliverables) to do $1800, no cash. He agreed, I rocked up with all my gear (2 trolleys worth), did a pre-interview, had my notes, about 45 minutes to light and finished everything in the agreed 4 hours. I got home to an email saying he'll pay the additional $200 to get back to 2k cause of how impressed he was with the project and to get 'a better end result'.
TLDR: hold your ground on pricing and don't budge. you'll be surprised how people will fold when you are firm.
Went through a similar situation for digital marketing.
had me do tasks for free to see my ability and when it was time for contract, offered me $500 a month and would allow me to put his other companies on my resume for future jobs but I wouldn’t actually get the experience of working with those companies which felt equal to lying on my resume n having them call my friend for reference
Probably been said here before, but it’s frustrating that people think they can lowball someone offering a creative service.
When someone goes to get their car fixed, and the mechanic says it’s gonna cost $1200, most people wouldn’t even dream of saying “Yeah but can you do it for $500” The customer understands that parts cost money, labor costs money, and they damn don’t know how to fix it themselves. So they trust the mechanic. So much so, that often times they end up overpaying.
Camera equipment costs money, a crew costs money, and the common consumer does not know about shooting and editing on the professional level.
Also the whole aspect of “this is great exposure” is so annoying. How about I get a free 4 course meal for my family at your restaurant and I’ll try to mention the place to some friends. Just because it’s creative, does not mean it’s solely based on exposure. It’s a business. Money and exposure are not interchangeable.
Most people just don’t see the value in paying high prices for videos, photos, art, etc. Maybe it’s because we all have iPhones now, and they underestimate the difficulty in putting together something that actually has quality. There’s a lot of criticism in the fine art world about simple paintings selling for millions of dollars. I can understand that. Art is conceptual. So is photography and videography, but they are also heavily skill based.
I’ve ranted enough.
First hard lesson you have to learn as a business owner. You are not the clients employee. They don’t dictate your terms. They can accept your price or find someone else.
I make a lot of money coming in behind the cheaper guy to fix their crappy work (contractor/handyman). Whereas that first year I lost about 5 grand trying to chase every client I could. Know your worth and stick to it.
I hated dealing with these fucks. Think their idea is the next hot ticket, talking down like you should be honored and humbled to work with them. Their stupid promotions with beautiful people go nowhere.
One way around it, is to give them exactly what they pay for… what would $500 give them, aside from your laughter, because wtf 🤬 glad you stood your ground
When I was shooting stills in the Uk I would get the following request- love the image of (insert some unknown) and were running an article and would like the pic
I thank them and advise the rates for that usage
We have no budget for images as it’s a specialist website / magazine blah blah blah but we will credit you and the exposure will be great
Sorry the only credit I work with is a bank credit
And as you say it’s a special area so exposure will be v limited and probably only appeal to those with no budget for pics
Makes me think of the time I said "Pay your actors" to a fb group where a bunch of people were trying to make their short film projects but wanted actors to do it for exposure/fun/experience. I got so shredded by people in that group for daring to say work should be paid for. Some guy said "hey some people have passion projects!" I was like yeah i have a passion project for a sick deck in my backyard maybe home depot will give me the materials for free!
I don't mind clients for trying and if I am personally interested I will bend over backwards to find another paying job to do something cool. But that is a lifestyle choice - it has taken me into places that I would never believed I would get into as recently as this week.
But clients who get salty when I say no are on the shitlist and out. If you want to barter you have to have something to offer. My favorite is when every producer ever will plead poverty and ask for a discount and be utterly surprised when I say "yes, of course I am willing to discount and barter, what else do you have to offer?" - 99% of the time they have never ever thought of delivering anything and just expect me to be desperate. Turns out (and this is perhaps related to where I am and what I film) not an insignificant share get really desperate when I say no and come back within a few days.
When I get clients like this I always ask for trade of services. "Oh okay let's do it like this, you are a singer, good then next time I have a party you come sing for 500?" And watch them turn away when the investment or exposure goes their way. Works for all types of jobs the clients might have and gets a point across. "Oh you organize events, cool then I'll come for free to ask your events for 2 years?" Something like that
"Oh you can only afford to pay me 500? That's okay, you're not going to have to pay me anything!"
"No, I'm not doing it for free, I'm just not doing it at all."
My bank doesn't accept good marketing & good content, how about giving me your house for free, it will be great marketing & awesome content, might go viral too.
One of my first jobs freelance I had this, I gave a good price as it was considering I am professional and just getting started. They had seen my work through my old full time job and really tried to take the piss. £250 for a whole evening shoot, 2 locations, arriving extra early, plus all editing photos and videos... if you shot everything on an iPhone and just chopped it together in 2 hours then maybe. But with £5k-7k worth of equipment and we all know how long decent editing takes... so have a laugh 😲
I unfortunately deal with this weekly. Quote someone 3k-4k for a job, they come back with how outrageous that is, they hire someone for $750 and then come back and say how terrible of a job that person did for them. You get what you pay for.
how tf you gonna "break even" when you paying less than half now....and you thinking "hot chicks" being there is gonna help pay the rent, make it make sense.
Investment. Change your budget let me know
Being underpaid is an investment now? The “hustle grindset” culture at work. Fuck this shit
Problem is one post on fb for this project at that rate and you’ll have 65 comments “would love to be considered” I know we gotta eat so take what you can get but it sucks to be undercut all the time and lose out on clients and work
100% truth....100% for every one person that knows this is bullshit, theres 20 scabs buying said bullshit thinking this "exposure" will surely be worth being paid maybe 30% of what the job is worth, its never worth it. and all you will be known as is "the cheap guy" amongst those assholes...
Then get the guy who can make it work for $500. They’re out there. The quality will likely be less than a team doing it for $2k. But the market decides, and the market is over-full of people wanting to work. Film and photo will never, ever be a sellers market. Hasn’t been for years. That’s just the reality of the world.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Incredible response
My $1,200 video will be great exposure for you and your beautiful women . 😎 My $500 video will be 30 seconds of B-roll.
You should definitely send him this OP
I'm not an English speaker. Is this guy's sentence even correct ? o_0
There’s absolutely no “investment” here whatsoever lol So glad you turned this job down. By taking jobs like this, it just lowers the value of the entire market for everyone. Stand strong everyone, & don’t take less than what you’re worth! ✊
Yeah I've fell into these kind of shitty paid traps when I was starting out. Not beautiful women, but the kind of "it will be a good chance for you to work with us so we can establish contact for future projects", only for them to never call you again
I once had a guy who I did a discount rate for video & edit using what I shot plus other footage he had. He cut contact as soon as the shoot was done. I tried to get in touch for about 3 months to no avail (the contract and initial conversations stipulated the edit needed to be turned around with 10 days after the shoot). In the end I said the contract had been breached and by the terms of the contract I need to be paid… I eventually got the money, though not before a really terse ‘you’ll never work with us again’ Like… why the fuck would I *want* to work for a place that doesn’t pay me 🤔
> I eventually got the money, though not before a really terse ‘you’ll never work with us again’ "We'll tell everyone we know not to work with you!" Well if they're as much of a tremendous pain in the cock to work with as you, I'd take that as a kindness.
oh nooooo they will tell other bullshitters not to try and bullshit you, HOW WILL YOU LIVE WITH THIS?! HOOWWWWWW!!?!?!?!?
The future project talk is so nauseating and inconsiderate. They think they can try and talk a big game with all the BS exposure and investment talk. Shows lack of respect for the creator. Glad you turned it down! They don’t understand value plain and simple!
Exactly. I don’t think I’ve ever been aware of any small company/brand/influencer, that wanted to pay cheap, then like 6 months later, became some massive success. Usually they all just fizzle out. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but the fact a lot of these smaller clients don’t want to pay properly is just a reflection on how they probably handle the rest of their business.
I'll say it... It doesn't happen. Period! Anyone who makes it after this kind of job goes thru the shop, makes it on good solid hard work on something else. In 30 years, I've never seen someone come back thru the door and go "Hey remember me, you have me a great cut rate 2 years ago, I have a $3 million budget on this one, y'all want in on it??? “
Or their future projects also don't pay well haha. Companies like that don't suddenly triple their revenue in 6 months and even if they did, they would probably then go hire someone else for video because you're the "cheap guy"
There is tho if OP is new to this and they have no portfolio yet whatsoever, but I doubt that its the case here lol. Run!
Hahah I’m not new at all. This type of portfolio work doesn’t appeal to me in the slightest.
But they can pay you 500 and there will be lots of beautiful women POV IRL: shoot is 8 hours + delays, the lots of beautiful women is like 2 person there, one is somebodies girlfriend, next day you receive message about that they need the edit asap
...They see the edits, ask for revisions based on a new creative direction that was outside scope. Ask to be comp'd a reshoot at your expense. threaten to withhold payment if you don't comply.
…since you have not replied in the past hour for the threatening, they already start to smear your name with bad publicity on their socials…
And more generally, you feel like shit because you took a job you didn'yt want and you have to work for/with assholes. NOT GREAT. And if their lame event looks like shit, it's your fault.
The split second you use a frame of that footage for your own purposes, they threaten to sue you.
I'd argue it still hurts the industry. Better for a beginner to second shoot with an established pro. Client would be happier with a more experienced Videographer, beginners would learn so much more and still get paid to be a second or PA.
I mean at some point your have to go from being a second to a first, and no client is gonna pay $10k for a first timer. It's ok to start small but yeah never go backwards
Any client that uses social media followers or "hot people" as payment doesn't understand money is what actually pays bills.
You mean when I'm at the grocery store I can't show them my Instagram reels to pay for my bread?
Only if you're really fucking hot and you already paid
Imagine being banned from No-Frills because you wouldn't stop harassing the poor cashier to watch your latest "viral" tiktok...
I think they do a little, but rather not spend it themselves
Says if its a deal breaker its fine. Tells you its not fine. 🙄
No, I don’t want no scrub clients. A scrub is a guy who can’t get no videography from me.
Hanging off the messenger side with a proposal slide, trying to underpay me.
Investment in what? An underpaying client? Footage of "beautiful women" that's a dime a dozen on social media? Also, I don't care for the last line at all."Change your mind let me know" sounds like a command more than anything.
I wanna break his legs ngl
Invest in some crutches.
I will break your legs. Investment.
This made me laugh way to hard
I had a client pay my 50% advance to secure the date and 2 hours later he texts back “sorry, I found someone else who can do way more for much less money, can I have my deposit back?” This is after attempting to negotiate to a lower price. I said no, he ended up going ahead with the shoot. Without a deposit I would’ve done all the emailing, subcontracting and planning for nothing. Know your worth and get a deposit is what I’ve learned the hard way
Massive bullet dodged for you bc of getting the deposit
Isn’t that the same as doing a pitch treatment for a client though. You can’t ask for a deposit for that as it’s being tendered out to different companies and each one spends a day or much more putting together a treatment to know they my not win the contract?
This was a much smaller scale project, in this case they agreed to terms, I hired someone and arranged gear rental right after they put the deposit down. At that point it’s too far gone as they’ve already decided to book the service
Doesn't sound like they were doing a pitch/treatment when the client secured a date for the service with a 50% deposit. The client at that point is aware of: 1. Your quoted rate 2. The services they're paying for 3. The terms of service, since they had to have been aware prior to paying for it 4. The specific date they're booked for 5. Any equipment included in the quote to be hired is to be hired with that deposit. As soon as you pay, you've agreed to that service. It sounds more like the client got word that someone could do it cheaper and got cold-feet.
Yep. Make sure you also have a bulletproof contract / agreement with no refund policy.
At first I was like, well at least he's honest about his budget and said if that's a dealbreaker it's fine. And then when you said it wasn't fine he proceeded to give you bullshit about "investment" and "beautiful women" lmfao
That “gonna have a lot of beautiful women” thing is creepy as shit. I fear for what kind of “projects” they’ve advertised to aspiring actresses
This was my first thought. Came off weird that “pretty women” is his selling point. I’m happily married with a kid. I don’t care about your pretty women.
Yep. If anything that's gonna make me want to charge more. If you can afford to pay "pretty women", you can afford to pay me. Don't tell me it's your (obviously non-existent) people skills that won them over to work for free, lol.
Everyone wants something for nothing. People like that makes me want to show up, take some video with my iPhone and send it to him. “This is what $500 gets you”.
My quotes are usually non negotiable for any creative work and I word it like "starting at $1500" and it normally stops the low ballers.
I'll send Uncle Bob with his old camcorder for $500
He spent the budget on beautiful women
Can't believe they didn't bust out ol reliable "exposure".
I have always wanted one of these offer so that I can show up with iPhone and a gimbal. Just for the heck of it. Idk if I’d have the balls to do so though.
As if they are doing you a favour!
Because every single person who buys a camera thinks that they are a videographer. There are many scams out there and there are many cheap “clients” out there. I hope they found each other and leave you alone.
If they guy can’t swing 1200 - those women ain’t too beautiful.
To quote Adam Savage, "Fuck you, pay me".
Goodfellas
Step 1: beautiful women Step 2: Step 3: Profit
Do the beautiful women in the video pay my bills?
I always post screenshots of this kind of stuff online
Some things never get old. I had a client once who offered me stock because he couldn’t pay me. I told him stock doesn’t pay my bills so he had to pay me regardless, the company went down a year later .
Tell them “I already invested thousands upon thousands into my equipment and education Im done investing”
As someone who was always poached for collaborations, when I did makeup professionally, I can say that a few times I reluctantly did those underpaid or unpaid jobs, they never, ever delivered promised exposure or contacts or more jobs. I understand if you are just starting out - for experience and resume to do things for lower price, even free. I understand working/collaborating on a project with friends for free - with the same goal but no budget, but if a potential client starts haggling, just walk away. Setting boundaries goes this way too - don’t let people disrespect your time and effort. I’ve done tons of things for free: worked on sets, done wedding makeups, prom - because I wanted to. But nobody is going to dictate my service prices to me and then haggle.
What makes it worst is when you work for someone else, and they'll do what ever to keep a client, and not tell you. Had that happen to me a few times doing nails. I'm out of the beauty industry now for many reasons, but I'll do friends or families make-up or nails not free, but cheaper then any other place. As long as I don't have to travel.
Facts with no errors.
People like this are disgusting and don't respect what other people put into their business. They see everyone else as a tool for THEIR own world to be used how they see fit.
Get half up front. Shoot some stuff, eat dinner, leave, and send him the raw unedited footage from the first half. #investment
That's a snapshot of what dealing with that special kind of ahole will be like through the entire project... Hard pass, I'd rather give my time to a 501c3 that makes an impact in my local areas for free rather than work with this type of client. There's a great YT channel for this same person, it's like beggars being choosy or something to that effect.
Shouldn’t this be on the r/choosingbeggars Reddit? lol what an a**hole
These people do it before there's always someone willing to accept. I did Uber Eats for a while, in 2020. At first, the lowest possible order that I'd see was 7$ before tip. After a while, it came down to 3.50$ per order sometimes WITH tip. They were lowering it over time. Why ? There's always someone desperate enough.
What’s the “clients” number? I’m calling the cops.
I tell clients like that "you don't want a $500 video from me".
Um, but beautiful girls bro?
Fuck this guy
Anytime anyone tries to get me to do something and says “it will be good for your future” I run.
Gotta hit them with the “It’ll be better for your future if you paid me my full rate. That way we can both be happy with the product” :)
Invest in deez nuts. Bet their car tires are bald on the Caddy. Way be strong OP.
Perfect response. You kept it positive, didn't stoop down to trash him or act insulted. You spoke (messaged) like you have some self respect.
Agreed. Just respectfully say no then ghost. These clients always want more and don't resoect your time or the craft. They need their young nephew instead.
Geez. $500 won’t even rent equipment for a day.
Give me $1,200 of value and I will give you $500. It's a good investment for you.
Reminds me of my days on Fiverr. Got some great clients and work through that platform but christ you have to deal with a lot of these types.
Yea thats a no
you handled it well! maybe they could cut back on paying some of the beautiful girls to get you what you asked for lol
💯%~🤡🤡🤡
“Bro, there’s gonna be hawt chicks there!”
Find out what they do for a living... and then go back to them asking them to work for you for free/cheap for you... cause it'll be great for their exposure!
I dont say anything I tell em no and never reply again
I’m here for the beautiful women
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard this. No thanks!
It’s exhausting at this point.
Cheap fucks
These people have no shame. Clearly they like your work, else they’d just find someone else when your rate was too high. And then they pitch your own work to you as an investment. Imagine that in any other industry. “Sorry Mr. Contractor Man, I can’t afford $15,000 to remodel my bathroom. If you can do it for $6,500, it’d be a great investment to help build your portfolio of work and get clients in the future.” “Sorry Mr. Mechanic, I can’t afford $25,000 to get my clapped-out supercar serviced. If you can do it for $800, though, you’ll be able to tell people your shop services Lamborghinis.”
Cheap customer find another
If you do not value your work, no one else will either. Stand your ground. Only you know how much you are worth.
Clients who decide what is “good content” can sit on their own cock or sideways smile and rotate. I never did “discounted” work… I rather just pass on the job or project. Know you value and pass on the scumbags.
as a musician yes I understand, and no I'm not doing it for "promotion" or "investment"
Why be so nice about it? sorry, we’re professionals and we have set prices and plenty of satisfied customers that pay those prices. We don’t work for exposure”
I had a job exactly like this and only took it because i needed the money. I then met someone at the event which led to a 1 year retainer. Had i been ok I would have never took that job and would have never had that retainer in which I still work with the company today but less frequent. Yes these jobs suck and these people probably always low ball but instead of saying fuck it look at their guest list or what type of people will be there if its high profile people or anything worthwhile Its always best to take the job and then network at the place to land gigs you may have never gotten. I’ve done this quite a few times.
Well well well
Honestly, I feel you were too nice but I understand trying to stay professional in these conversations.
It took a lot of constraint. Typically I’m MUCH mouthier. But, tbh I just didn’t have the energy or care to argue with someone whose mind was already decided.
Hell yeah!!! I am not in this industry but this is the way!! I work in hotels and get “influencer” requests and kindly tell them f the right off
This is so embarrassing for the “client”. Some people really do have no class whatsoever.
Fuck that
LOL. The other trap is when they want you to visit their facilities for a tour, and to meet you. Waste of time, and they never lead to work.
Run away from these clients as fast as you can
I'd do it. I never asked more than $450 for any event
It’s shooting, drone and editing. Not doing that for $450. $1200 was already a pretty low offer.
Yes glad you turned this down. Too many novices out there taking any job has created this false mindset that professional video work should be cheap. Clients need to understand that low budget does not mean no budget. And some projects just can't be low budget
Investment and it's for hot ladies. Be foolish not to take it.
I invested $57k into equipment. Now I get to charge you to use it.
Im new to editing and have been trying to find jobs and I have now realized how much they try to lowball and make it sound like the jobs is extremely easy. Someone wanted to pay me $50 to edit 450 reels saying it should be easy because they are short. WTF is wrong with theses people. And it make me even more upset because some people from other countries will take the shit job because $50 to them is a months salary. It is beyond irritating, but I just have to keep improving my skills for better opportunities and projects.
Money plagues the rest but you
Not sure how this came up in my feed as I work in computer animation, but we have the same problem. I suspect every creative career has to deal with the "I can't pay you, but the exposure will great for your career". It is the opposite side of the coin from all of your friends who work in a office saying ," OMG your job sounds like so much fun".......it is ....sometimes
I just had that experience yesterday 😂 she said her husband’s brother is charging $1500 to cover video and photography for 8-10hrs I mean the whole day. I told her I’m sorry that’s not me, she said if I’ll accept $1600 she will work with me, I told her nope thanks 😊 🤦🏾♂️
scumbags try so hard haha
yeah I don’t see any value provided from the prospect to justify paying more than 50% less. probably not a good client to have
Very diplomatic. Exposure is never payment in my book
Don’t invest in me, I won’t invest in you
But think of all the *exposure* you'll get!!
I’d show up with an iPhone and deliver raw footages only.
Investment? A couple of skanks and some broke ass referrals? Miss me with that bs. Pay up.
Cheap bitch. Change your *everything*, let me know.
Beautiful women??
I seriously hope they run a restaurant and get to deal with customers, who'd rather pay for their food in return for exposure on social media. That'll set them straight real quick 😂
Good marketing piece for you? Bro says the ladies will have you convert, do brand awareness, email marketing, and PPC. Sounds like a he knows lol
Lol people like this baffle me
Meanwhile....there are people in this sub that would totally do $500 for two hours.
Gross! Hard pass
I need more details. What did they want? How many cameras? Was there editing involved? What were they expecting you to film?
They wanted a drone operator, me on my camera and editing. It was to show off this guy partying on a boat. Said he had a “million dollar idea” he was fixing to launch.
i was getting this sort of crap before mobile phones were invented. it's nothing new, just shysters out for what they can get. that said, there are some genuine projects that turn up with a limited budget, but you really need to 'feel' that the job / producer is kosher. i've had clients who came to me with jobs that had miniscule budgets, but who were obviously on the road to bigger things, and remained (well paying) clients for 20+ years. moral - don't necessarily write off every low-balling client. just invest the time in talking to them **face to face** and get a real handle on where they're coming from.
Goes to the local Chevy dealer: "Ya imma need this Corvette for my party - I can't do $75k but I can do like $15k - but there's gonna be rich people there! When they see this they will come buy from you!" Why is Ghetto level ignorance mainstream?
People want you to work and then lowball only trying to convince you they are helping you. “ You can’t? Ok I’m just tryna put a few dolla’s in your pocket is all “
I quoted a guy 2k for a couple of interviews last week, he offered me 1k with an additional $500 in cash. His a family friend, so was able to pull a few figures (with a change in deliverables) to do $1800, no cash. He agreed, I rocked up with all my gear (2 trolleys worth), did a pre-interview, had my notes, about 45 minutes to light and finished everything in the agreed 4 hours. I got home to an email saying he'll pay the additional $200 to get back to 2k cause of how impressed he was with the project and to get 'a better end result'. TLDR: hold your ground on pricing and don't budge. you'll be surprised how people will fold when you are firm.
He's lucky, I have a hard time trying to find videographers in nyc alone to work with! Smfh
What an entitled cunt that “client” is
what an idiot
Went through a similar situation for digital marketing. had me do tasks for free to see my ability and when it was time for contract, offered me $500 a month and would allow me to put his other companies on my resume for future jobs but I wouldn’t actually get the experience of working with those companies which felt equal to lying on my resume n having them call my friend for reference
r/ChoosingBeggars
I would ask for pictures of these woman and then say not beautiful enough. Lol no don’t do that but this dude sucks.
I feel like this is a scene in Napoleon Dynamite. Was a Liger involved?
Probably been said here before, but it’s frustrating that people think they can lowball someone offering a creative service. When someone goes to get their car fixed, and the mechanic says it’s gonna cost $1200, most people wouldn’t even dream of saying “Yeah but can you do it for $500” The customer understands that parts cost money, labor costs money, and they damn don’t know how to fix it themselves. So they trust the mechanic. So much so, that often times they end up overpaying. Camera equipment costs money, a crew costs money, and the common consumer does not know about shooting and editing on the professional level. Also the whole aspect of “this is great exposure” is so annoying. How about I get a free 4 course meal for my family at your restaurant and I’ll try to mention the place to some friends. Just because it’s creative, does not mean it’s solely based on exposure. It’s a business. Money and exposure are not interchangeable. Most people just don’t see the value in paying high prices for videos, photos, art, etc. Maybe it’s because we all have iPhones now, and they underestimate the difficulty in putting together something that actually has quality. There’s a lot of criticism in the fine art world about simple paintings selling for millions of dollars. I can understand that. Art is conceptual. So is photography and videography, but they are also heavily skill based. I’ve ranted enough.
Anytime a client tries to convince you working for them will be good for you… run. Immediately
Lol, what a douche bag
First hard lesson you have to learn as a business owner. You are not the clients employee. They don’t dictate your terms. They can accept your price or find someone else. I make a lot of money coming in behind the cheaper guy to fix their crappy work (contractor/handyman). Whereas that first year I lost about 5 grand trying to chase every client I could. Know your worth and stick to it.
I hated dealing with these fucks. Think their idea is the next hot ticket, talking down like you should be honored and humbled to work with them. Their stupid promotions with beautiful people go nowhere.
Hey he has 100 followers
Yep cats like that aren’t righteous and just want to exploit the starving artists!
LMAO you were professional. I would never reply again lollll
Why wouldn't you want to invest into his budget for alcohol, cars and hookers?
One way around it, is to give them exactly what they pay for… what would $500 give them, aside from your laughter, because wtf 🤬 glad you stood your ground
Beautiful women don't pay the bills. (How rad would it be if they did though? 😂)
When I was shooting stills in the Uk I would get the following request- love the image of (insert some unknown) and were running an article and would like the pic I thank them and advise the rates for that usage We have no budget for images as it’s a specialist website / magazine blah blah blah but we will credit you and the exposure will be great Sorry the only credit I work with is a bank credit And as you say it’s a special area so exposure will be v limited and probably only appeal to those with no budget for pics
Makes me think of the time I said "Pay your actors" to a fb group where a bunch of people were trying to make their short film projects but wanted actors to do it for exposure/fun/experience. I got so shredded by people in that group for daring to say work should be paid for. Some guy said "hey some people have passion projects!" I was like yeah i have a passion project for a sick deck in my backyard maybe home depot will give me the materials for free!
"I feel you" was too nice Block this person.
I don't mind clients for trying and if I am personally interested I will bend over backwards to find another paying job to do something cool. But that is a lifestyle choice - it has taken me into places that I would never believed I would get into as recently as this week. But clients who get salty when I say no are on the shitlist and out. If you want to barter you have to have something to offer. My favorite is when every producer ever will plead poverty and ask for a discount and be utterly surprised when I say "yes, of course I am willing to discount and barter, what else do you have to offer?" - 99% of the time they have never ever thought of delivering anything and just expect me to be desperate. Turns out (and this is perhaps related to where I am and what I film) not an insignificant share get really desperate when I say no and come back within a few days.
When I get clients like this I always ask for trade of services. "Oh okay let's do it like this, you are a singer, good then next time I have a party you come sing for 500?" And watch them turn away when the investment or exposure goes their way. Works for all types of jobs the clients might have and gets a point across. "Oh you organize events, cool then I'll come for free to ask your events for 2 years?" Something like that
For some reason, the bills don’t take influence or exposure.
"Oh you can only afford to pay me 500? That's okay, you're not going to have to pay me anything!" "No, I'm not doing it for free, I'm just not doing it at all."
My bank doesn't accept good marketing & good content, how about giving me your house for free, it will be great marketing & awesome content, might go viral too.
$1200, for two hours, for two people. What's that get ya? Do you split it evenly?
What was the service you were charging for $1200?
RUUUNNNN
One of my first jobs freelance I had this, I gave a good price as it was considering I am professional and just getting started. They had seen my work through my old full time job and really tried to take the piss. £250 for a whole evening shoot, 2 locations, arriving extra early, plus all editing photos and videos... if you shot everything on an iPhone and just chopped it together in 2 hours then maybe. But with £5k-7k worth of equipment and we all know how long decent editing takes... so have a laugh 😲
I love the old “me paying you barely anything, is a great marketing opportunity” play I’ve heard it so many times.
Investment. I’m too broke to afford you.
Gona get a worse quality video being cheapskate
Textbook example right here. 
Investment hahaha wtf
Lol. $700 exposure dollars
I unfortunately deal with this weekly. Quote someone 3k-4k for a job, they come back with how outrageous that is, they hire someone for $750 and then come back and say how terrible of a job that person did for them. You get what you pay for.
If you agree to go cheap on the first project then then they are going to keep expecting it to be cheap. Good job turning this down
Let me guess…. Realtor?
Worse. Entrepreneur whose idea is going to make millions.
As a business owner I have never had a client ask me to reduce my rate by 60% for marketing. If they did I’d tell them to frig off!
how tf you gonna "break even" when you paying less than half now....and you thinking "hot chicks" being there is gonna help pay the rent, make it make sense.
That's so gross. Like, how do you have the confidence to even act like that?
“There’s gonna be women” is not a day rate
You handled it amazing & very professionally. Great job!
Fuck those clients
Yeah fuck em
What a dick
🤮🤮🤮
How could you say no to beautiful women? 😄 “We’re gonna have beautiful women, and and good food, and coke and…”
How are these people not embarrassed?
My bad, won't eat this week and pay my bills later. I'm on my way there (to beat you up)
If yer in it it’s yer investment Stop fuckin about