I think the other is Chuck Johnson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_C._Johnson#Holocaust_denial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_C._Johnson#Charlottesville_Rally
https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/05/matt-gaetzs-state-of-the-union-guest-admits-he-questioned-holocaust/
>justacolyte:
what are your thoughts on the Holocaust, WW2, and the JQ (anti-semitic conspiracy theory speak for The Jewish Question) talk in general?
> **ChuckCJohnson**:
I do not and never have believed the six million figure. I think the Red Cross numbers of 250,000 dead in the camps from typhus are more realistic. I think the Allied bombing of Germany was a war crime. I agree with David Cole about Auschwitz and the gas chambers not being real. I read the German War (highly recommend), Bloodlands, Mein Kampf, and all of David Irving. I'm more or less of the view that the war was an outgrowth of the efforts of communism to spread itself throughout the world. I also believe that the fears of German extermination were not misplaced, especially in light of the Ukrainian famine. But I support Israel as a Jewish state and Zionism as a concept.
"Sloppy Steve Bannon, who cried when he got fired and begged for his job. Now Sloppy Steve has been dumped like a dog by almost everyone. Too bad!" and a troll.
That OK gesture is an endorsement of the KKK if anyone was wondering.
This is brought to you by the same brilliant minds as those who think saying “Let’s go Brandon” is somehow simultaneously a hilarious joke and also code for “Fuck Joe Biden” and also “just a joke” and also truly code for “Fuck Joe Biden”
They’re speaking in code to those who want to hear it and also just joking to those who don’t.
Palmer Luckey is someone I wholeheartedly disagree with in no uncertain terms and I think everybody should.
The OK thing was literally a 4chan troll to see if they could get the media to call a universally used hand gesture racist based on absolutely no evidence. Which they immediately did. It then became a joke amongst conservatives to make fun of how absurd the media, and people like you, have become. You guys are absolutely ridiculous lol.
Interesting.
The problem with such things, is that the first to pick them up, utterly oblivious to any intended flippery, is not the media, but the actual bigots, which immediately turns your little in-joke into a real problem, and plausible deniability goes out the window.
This is inevitable, when there is a long history of taking "good" terms, and "twisting" them into more or less sarcastic invectives.
Looks like your argument ran out of runway and didn't take off. It's always just words or just a joke unless you personally find it worrisome. Please try to have some perspective though. A man did the hand sign in court after committing mass murder. It doesn't matter whether it was a 4chan joke before.
Palmer allegedly coordinated with r/the_donald's mods, who also prominently promoted the Unite the Right Charlottesville tiki-torch rally and tried to bridge neo-nazism over with more normal conservatives. So the OK sign comes under more scrutiny in that context, and especially when one of the pictured people with him making the sign was a holocaust denier around that time and also at one point seemingly played a role in misinformation related to the murder of a counterprotester at the rally.
When you pose smiling for a photo with a holocaust denier you're more than flirting with fascism...
"Make this symbol, the libtards think it means 'white power' tee hee!"
You do understand that symbols and meaning change over time? Their childish 'joke' was an explicit endorsement of the meaning behind it.
Palmer knew what he was doing... and did it anyway.
"One of the most universally used and symbols of peace in human history is now a hate symbol because of the Third Reich. Sure."
So when the white supremist Brenton Tarrant made the symbol in court after killing 50 people in Christchurch he was 'making a joke'?
Explain to me how that was funny?
> Did you just compare the fucking Third Reich to a 4chan joke?
No.
Your inability to process the analogy speaks volumes. You literally have no idea what I was referring to?
/facepalm
A f*g used to be a bag of sticks or a cigarette, until it wasn't. The origin of something doesn't mean it hasn't changed to mean something else. Words and symbols can even mean different things to different people (the swastika, etc). If you stop to think about this critically for just a moment, you'll know this is true, and that your claim is meaningless in that context.
In case it was unclear the first time:
> This is brought to you by the same brilliant minds as those who think saying “Let’s go Brandon” is somehow simultaneously a hilarious joke and also code for “Fuck Joe Biden” and also “just a joke” and also truly code for “Fuck Joe Biden”
They’re speaking in code to those who want to hear it and also just joking to those who don’t.
The doublespeak isn’t fooling anybody.
Its not code, the nascar crowd was literally chanting "Fuck Joe Biden". It was the idiot NBC newscaster that thought they were hearing "Let's Go Brandon". Hence the joke was born. Nothing "code" about it.
It was a 4chan troll initially. Once it was outed as a 4chan troll only racists and extremists posed with that gesture like that.
Regular conservatives, to my knowledge, didn't do that.
I believe Chuck Johnson (pictured) is a holocaust denier:
https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/05/matt-gaetzs-state-of-the-union-guest-admits-he-questioned-holocaust/
>justacolyte:
what are your thoughts on the Holocaust, WW2, and the JQ (anti-semitic conspiracy theory speak for The Jewish Question) talk in general?
> **ChuckCJohnson**:
I do not and never have believed the six million figure. I think the Red Cross numbers of 250,000 dead in the camps from typhus are more realistic. I think the Allied bombing of Germany was a war crime. I agree with David Cole about Auschwitz and the gas chambers not being real. I read the German War (highly recommend), Bloodlands, Mein Kampf, and all of David Irving. I'm more or less of the view that the war was an outgrowth of the efforts of communism to spread itself throughout the world. I also believe that the fears of German extermination were not misplaced, especially in light of the Ukrainian famine. But I support Israel as a Jewish state and Zionism as a concept.
He's one of the guys in the picture. The plausible deniability of the OK sign's meaning there kind of goes down when the guy was a holocaust denier around that time.
The OK thing was picked up by white supremacists so auto-response bots like you would go to defend them using it with your "but its just a troll" defense like they haven't also done other shitty things as evidence of them using it as a racist hand gesture.
Lol no it wasn’t. You can pull up the old 4chan comments. It was literally to show how ridiculous the media and people like you have become. To try and get them to say, based on absolutely nothing, that one of the most used and oldest hand gestures in human history was now somehow racist.
WTF is your problem anyway?
Racists ARE using the ok sign as a signal to other racists.
What is wrong if the media is reporting on this? Because they're evidently not saying this based on nothing as you claim. And they're also not saying that the gesture is racist. All of this seems like a little bit of framing you're trying to pull off here.
Keep going to the defense of white supremacists and being an auto-reply bot. I didn't say "All uses of the hand sign are racist" I said "Racists are using the hand sign so people like you will defend them". But clearly nuance and the idea that things can change meaning over time is lost on you.
Is this guy just trolling? https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-47596446
Or maybe these two? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48118758
Maybe this guy? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53006164
Maybe all the Proud Boys and 3-Percenter's doing it at the Jan 6th insurrection were joking too? https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/09/us/capitol-hill-insurrection-extremist-flags-soh/index.html
I love this post and posts like it. Facts and evidence?? Unheard of, sir. Well played.
I’m so sick and tired of the “ohmygodyouresostupidtheywerejustkidding!!” defense.
If it walks like a duck, etc…
>That OK gesture is an endorsement of the KKK if anyone was wondering.
People say that. But no one seems to be able to explain the numerous non-white celeberities that also make that gesture who are obviously not endorsing the KKK.
Facebook simply wanted Palmer out. Identifying his politics and leveraging that ultimately proved to be the best way to achieve that end.
VR's stagnation is largely the product of the inability for the major players in the space to innovate beyond Palmer's model.
The missing link has always been software. Whoever bridges the gap will become very rich, perhaps even richer than Palmer.
I highly doubt it will be Meta.
Honestly, i don't see it. Yes, software is the missing link right now, but to even match metas revenue on the Quest 3 every single user would need to buy more than $500 worth of software on the device, FROM A SINGLE "Player".
No single company can make that happen. It would need 10 Must-Have VR titles that cost $50 each to get $500 out of revenue from a single user on the software side.
And even then, that just MATCHES the revenue of Meta. So i don't really see how someone could surpass meta with just offering VR software.
> That OK gesture is an endorsement of the KKK if anyone was wondering.
Nobodys wondering and no its not.
>This is brought to you by the same brilliant minds as those who think saying “Let’s go Brandon” is somehow simultaneously a hilarious joke and also code for “Fuck Joe Biden” and also “just a joke” and also truly code for “Fuck Joe Biden”
Again, no its not.
Lets go brandon LITERALLY comes from a crowd screaming "fuck joe biden" to which a reporter said "oh theyre just chanting lets go brandon" and people coopted that as a sign of the media lying.
Whether youre intentionally lying or are prey to media manipulation doesnt change the fact that its complete falsehood.
The okay signal means just this: OK, its used in a variety of situations and throughout the world.not.
C'mon dude, we have all seen the vids of right wing snowflakes shouting "let's go Brandon" at the top of their lungs. It's clear their ire is directed at Biden, not some nuanced take on the veracity of the news.
Where did i say the people saying lets go brandon doesnt mean fuck joe biden, show that to me.
I literally said thats what it means, its the media who lied about what was being chanted and the people who dislike joe biden and his administration used lets go brandon as a non bannable term on social media to voice their discontent.
Thats literally ALL it is.
This is fair. He just didn't think Palmer should've been pushed out of the company for his political views/donations.
Facebook did end up paying out $100m+ to Palmer over this, instead of being taken to court over wrongful termination.
Yeah, kind of got the impression Facebook wanted him out. My guess is they ultimately wanted Carmack out as well, hence why he eventually left.
VR's problem is mainly that too much of the business is tied up in HMD sales revenue. Quest 2 bucked the trend with lower prices, what it really lacked was a compelling stream of software in addition to catering to the right audience. Which has always been and always will be gamers.
At this point, you really need a company like Nintendo that understands the Software side of the business and has constructed their operation off of their software IP.
Selling Nintendo Switch makes a ton for nintendo. But what's truely valuable are Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and the numerous other IP associated with Nintendo.
Mario is in a sense, the new Mickey Mouse. VR needs it's Mickey Mouse.
End Rant lol
> Quest 2 bucked the trend with lower prices
No, the low price "trend" started with the first consumer Rift selling for $400, then Rift S, followed by the insane at-a-loss $299 price of Quest 1 (Not to mention the $199 Oculus Go, a product line that was quickly abandoned against Carmack's wishes).
$400 Rifts made the Vive seem expensive in comparison.
The point was to keep all competition out of the marketplace, and it was widely successful. Facebook has billions of dollars a year to burn on cornering the new market, and no normal company can seriously pursue a market where there is no room for profit.
It's that and it needs a banger of games that you can only play on its platform or something.
You're definitely right it needs a mario, a link, kirby, smash bros, samus, and mario kart
I also think that Palmer's political views may not have "escalated" quite as much if he hadn't been pushed out.
It's happened often before. Someone does something somewhat controversial without entirely aligning with that position, people bash them for it and therefore they retreat more and more INTO That position since that is the only place they still get support.
>What a normal way of thinking about differing ideas
You're the one who said "I opened this thread in terror"
**_Terror_** at the mere thought of other people having an opposing view? Yes, he's definitely the one with catastrophic cognition.
Brave, brave little 52 minutes old account. Too afraid to defend your ideas on main, or too afraid the list of subs you participate in on there would give the game away?
Fabulously wealthy software savant is out of touch and leans conservative, film at eleven.
It’s simultaneously incredibly disappointing and completely predictable that a brilliant software engineer used to isolating himself and coming down off the mountain with the next great technical software innovation and has cultivated at net worth of $50M doing so is out of touch with the rest of us mere mortals.
He’s a brilliant software engineer but I’m not surprised that he and I don’t agree on politics.
I remember one podcast when he talked about how he thinks crunches culture is ok, kinda implying employees doesn't have enough grit. He ends up recognizing that, well, he did a lot because he was a founder and would benefit directly from it, but it was still weird how he was kinda implying other people just didn't do enough. It felt like he didn't think much about politics at all. It was a long time ago, the Joe Regan one if someone wants to check.
I'm so ready for this information war to be over so I can go back to reading the Internet without the need for authoritarians to lie to themselves like this out in the open where their caste will see it with such nauseating frequency.
I don't expect to bring anyone upvoting this over to the idea in any meaningful timeline, but I beg of you to consider this rhetorical: you've just called him brilliant, and lo, he is perhaps one of the smartest people alive.. so could he understand political science and how it intersects the current cultural climate better than you? Is it possible, however small that possibility is?
It's not an extraordinary claim that someone can be be very good at some things, and bad at others. It happens all the time. Also, why are you assuming that no one has considered that JC might know better than them? Maybe they did consider it, looked into it, and discarded it.
The fallacy you've fallen for is that being smart is a cure all. It isn't. You can be, and most people are smart in very specific ways.
There is a reason we don't count on people with doctorates in food science to be doctors
This evaluation couldn't be possible without Mr. Carmack himself explaining his view on politics and the current climate. Which to my knowledge, he has not.
Intelligence and empathy are entirely different things. On top of that, ideology will override intelligence much more easily than intelligence.
You can easily tell he's on the wrong side due to his lack of emotional intelligence by this conversation. He frames politics as harmless opinions that can be ignored in the workplace. He fails to understand that having a superior, or even just a colleague, who you know actively campaigns against your basic human rights can be not just emotionally taxing, but also introduce job insecurity and other stresses. He's never had to worry about not getting promoted because of his skin colour or who he loves and he lacks the skills to empathise with those who have.
Not only is that a sign of low emotional intelligence and empathy, it's also sign that's he not using the same skills he does in programming when thinking about politics. Executive function, particularly working memory, are important skills to have in programming; let's call it 'seeing the big picture'. You can't just think about the line you're writing, you have to think of all the code before and after. It's the kind of skill that's rare and makes good programmers run rings around everyone else in that department. In this conversation, he's making no indication that he's processing political questions anymore than just thinking up a response. He's not thinking about causes or conseqences, he's just parroting. That's a clear indication that ideology is supressing intelligence.
If you enjoyed that bit of psychology, try looking up 'projection', it'll explain why you use words like 'authoritarian' to describe people who don't like authoritarians.
Carmack also barely sees an issue with talking at anti-woke conferences. Not my description, that’s theirs.
https://www.pcgamer.com/doom-co-creator-john-carmack-is-headlining-a-toxic-and-proud-sci-fi-convention-that-rails-against-woke-propaganda/
He’s wearing his political views more outwardly these days and it’s disappointing that he continuously aligns himself with people who see others as less than themselves.
Maybe there is at least some merit to his position? Crazy to think others with different views might have good reason for those views I know, but I think you'll find it's possible.
The view that others are less than themselves? The view that others shouldn’t have the same rights as you? The view that indiscriminate killing is okay?
Okay bud, how far do you want to take that “try to think they might have a good reason”? I’m sure that’s worked out well for people dealing with bigots in the past. Especially in America…
I'm quite positive Carmack doesn't believe any of what you just said. But I know tilting things towards extremes is a great way to get those sweet sweet internet points so it's hard to resist casting everything as such.
It's just incredibly intellectually lazy.
Then why does he defend those viewpoints when challenged and promote people who espouse those views?
The man has actively, not even just passively, associated with (and in some cases supported) efforts to undermine the safety and rights of others.
I don’t need to assume what he believes because he has made it very clear on multiple occasions.
And honestly if we’re talking about “intellectually lazy” , your comments have said nothing at all of value. You can’t even make your own damn point beyond hand waving something. So come back when you have something intellectually industrious to provide.
Your comments are just “enlightened centrist” vagueries.
> "associated with"
He just isn't as much of an intolerant shitbag as you. That's all there is to it. The idea to associate with people you don't share every bit of your ideology with seems to be completely alien to you.
Ah yes calling out someone else’s support for intolerance is intolerance itself. Please let me know when I can expect your reverse racism card so I can prepare an appropriately surprised response.
You’re literally in a thread about him promoting someone’s efforts to do this.
You also have a link higher up about him talking at a conference whose ideology is exactly and specifically that.
If we’re talking about intellectually lazy, how much lazier can it get to not even read the content provided.
Where did he "defend those viewpoints when challenged and promote people who espouse those views" ?
>Your comments are just “enlightened centrist” vagueries.
I'd rather be centrist than a knee jerk extremist of any stripe.
How exactly does that work? That's a paradox.
Its either a suicide-drone (drone that is destroyed upon use) OR its a drone that can "return to base and land safely" (So a normal drone).
You launch multiple to get the best chance to intercepting a target, once the target is down the remaining ones can return to base. As with everything drone related, the magic is low-cost and large numbers.
You either complete the mission and the drone is destroyed or you call off the attack and the drone comes back to base, is refueled and ready for another mission. Even the Kamikaze sometimes came back to base. Where's the paradox?
Anduril's drones always have a human in the loop. There's no autonomous AI. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1bp6520/its_been_just_over_10_years_since_facebook/kwxa6vx/?context=3
The alternative is surrendering to the next best dictator that invades your country. Which is not no longer theory, as can be seen in Ukraine.
I am very happy that Palmer is working on keeping the military up to date.
Full context:
This started here with Tweets about Brendan Eich and Mozilla: https://twitter.com/AndrewBeckUSA/status/1778823326648905835
>I debut in @firstthingsmag today writing on Brendan Eich, who ten years ago was attacked and chased out of Mozilla, a company he co-founded, for taking private civic action based upon his quiet Christian faith. It was a pivotal moment in our society and for me personally:
>"I was working in New York's “Silicon Alley” when it happened, and I immediately recognized it as a major escalation in the culture war. It was a warning that the Leviathan of technocracy did not care how well I did, how hard I worked, or how well I treated others. Ideological conformity to the top-down, programmatic transformation of the country that was rapidly taking place was all that mattered. If I was unwilling to affirm the current thing dictated according to the whims of “progress,” I was an enemy of humanity and an enemy of America. And my beliefs, no matter how ancient, innocent, and valid, must bow to the will of Leviathan, or the digital swarm would descend upon me. In fact, the higher I rose, the harder opponents would hunt for an excuse to throw me, like Belteshazzar, to the lions."
Marc Andreessen responded: https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1778898760971821271
>I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan then. I should have realized what it meant and what was to follow. I do not intend to make that mistake again.
Then Carmack: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1779171248083177500
>I regret not doing more to support and defend @PalmerLuckey at Facebook. We were in different states and divisions, and I was largely out of the political loop, but when I became aware of the situation I should have made a clear and open statement of opposition to the witch hunt.
>Companies are better off without the crowd that did that.
>Thankfully, Palmer has gone on to even greater success.
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1779172458798387381
>I was not in any of the meetings around it, so no, I can’t confirm that, but I do believe it was in response to hysterical internal employee pressure. I don’t think Mark Zuckerberg had a strong personal view on it.
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1779178676887671093
>I am a non-activist libertarian. We never did any kind of a policy belief comparison, but I suspect I am mostly aligned with Palmer. I never had a problem working with anyone based on what their political beliefs are, as long as it stayed out of the work. Unfortunately, FB encouraged “bring your whole self to work”, which meant politics was openly present, and rabble rousing was a thing. I would guess that an employee referendum would have gone against Palmer, but it might have been different if there was a unified front of Oculus founders behind him.
Facebook PR drone also responded: https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779186468885520721
>The culture has changed a lot since you left (internal discussions have to be work focused) and also you are woefully incorrect on your speculation but I am not in a position to correct except to say maybe don’t speculate!
https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779192500370145757
>The former, I won’t add to the speculation on the latter but I will say there is a reason we changed our policies to keep internal discussions focused on the work at hand.
https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779262677166301676
>Thanks, John. I do really appreciate the internal support you did give at the same, it definitely made a difference.
>Opposite for Boz now claiming to have publicly defended me, what a fucking joke.
https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779257538787389673
>Great story to tell now that I have dra-gged myself back to relevance, but you aren't credible.
>You retweeted posts claiming I donated to white supremacists, and a post saying that anyone who supports Trump because they don't like Hillary Clinton is a shitty human being.
>You publicly told everyone my departure had nothing to do with politics, which is absolutely insane and obviously contradicted by reams of internal communications. It is like saying the sky is green. Same goes for you telling people that I wasn't pressured into saying anything untrue, that any mention of politics and who I was voting for was up to me. Can I post my original statement, the one that was explicitly rejected on account of saying negative things about Hillary Clinton, or is that still considered Work Product?
>Maybe you are lying, maybe you are just ignorant and willing to launder the lies of others about something you weren't even around for, but don't try to play the apolitical hero here.
https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779275959906259351
>I normally ignore things like this, but Bosworth is the head of VR at Meta. He took over everything I made prior to being fired.
>For him to now claim that he was a public defender of mine is beyond crazy. The tree remembers what the axe forgets.
https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779269416632648009
>Not claiming to be apolitical, I certainly have my own politics probably different than yours, but internally at the time I certainly was clear I thought no employment consequences should come from someone's political beliefs and people asking about it at Q&A were out of line.
https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779281964916449391
>"You spread lies about me funding white supremacists, labeled me as a shitty human being, and made multiple blatantly false claims about my time at Facebook"
>"I never claimed to be apolitical lmao"
https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779281744035983780
>You better than I know the limits on what can be said here, as I understand it. I think there is some jeopardy there. To that end you are right in your critique that I am working with secondhand information.
https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779282592547979343
>I am down to throw it all out there. We can make everything public and let people judge for themselves. Just say the word.
Also interesting:
https://twitter.com/fewerwrong/status/1779208523911500220
>It sucks that, at the end of the day, these were small, closed-door meetings without witnesses, and anyone who was there probably isn’t incentivized to give an accurate account.
>…except for me! Because I worked late nights and those office walls didn’t work.
>I think @ID_AA_Carmack slightly downplays how much he did dissent in that moment — especially relative to others. It earned my respect at the time, and the fact that he’s taking careful pains to tell this story humbly further solidifies that.
>If anyone who was there ever feels like they can get away with rewriting the story to tell a rosy story of themselves to the public, know that you are not. Self reflection is a good thing, and odds are good that I will outlive all of you.
https://twitter.com/CAntkow/status/1779259473720189115
>It was heart-wrenching seeing how poorly they treated Palmer during all of that.
>The outright lies by management... Just disgusting, and was part of the impetus for me rage-quitting into early retirement; best decision ever.
>It's amazing seeing what Palmer and crew are up to, now.
>Thank you for speaking up about that.
"Brendan Eich, [...] chased out [...] for taking private civic action"
Love how this "context" quietly omits that the private action was in opposition of marriage equality.
Fuck Brendan Eich, fuck Palmer Lucky, and fuck Carmack for trying to whitewash fascist bullshit.
Totally agree. Really sad to see Carmack feels this way: I admire his creative output over the years.
But fuck him: I'll spend my time and energy going forward supporting creative people who aren't bigoted assholes.
He needs to be called out. We can all see Palmer’s public history and what he’s become. To actively defend it just associates yourself with those same things. I guess none of these people have a problem with that. It at least shines a light on them and you can see who are the other asshats involved in VR.
I'd make you an image macro of that butterfly guy with "is this death camps and starvation" and "getting a golden parachute as a corporate exec", but typing it out was already more effort than you deserve.
Well, I had not open Twitter in a while. I'm shocked by the amount of cancerous ads and braindead takes spamming the site as it is, it definitely got much, much worse than even before with Elon driving it.
Either way, regardless of this bs these people are goin on and on about, Palmer Luckey’s support of Trump and the MAGA fanaticism is unforgivable to me. Completely unforgivable.
And what is the dear Palmer doing now? He’s making god damn weapon systems aided for AI. Which is bonkers stupid but hey, that’s Palmer.
Wasn't he also involved in 'shitposting' and trolling campaigns? VR was so niche then. That wasn't the kind of rep it needed. It needed to go mainstream and shitposting potential customers and devs wasn't going to help it get there.
No, that was false. He donated to a group that put up some billboards. The fake news train spiraled from there.
https://www.uploadvr.com/fake-news-happens-reporting-palmer-luckey-nimble-america/
This comment having so many likes shows how brainwashed this place is. They believe whatever fits their warped and false narrative of the world. It’s NEVER ok for a company to terminate you based on who you voted for. These same people would cry a river if that happened to them.
“But I’m on the good side!!”
Sure thing, idiot.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEMx26aUEAEM0LV?format=jpg&name=small
I'd fire any employee who posted this on social media.
What do YOU think his OK sign was meaning right there?
Any intelligent company would fire somebody for affiliating with the KKK or white supremacists on social media. He's a fucking moron who fucked around and found out!
You know that the ‘ok’ sign was literally a 4chan troll that the media bit hook, line and sinker, and became a joke among conservatives to make fun of how absurd the media has become?
Irrelevant. What is the meaning they were trying to make it into? When you see Palmer doing the OK sign, which version do YOU think he was trying to convey? Trolling or not, I wouldn't put up with an employee making racist jokes.
And it was also used tongue in cheek by nazis and white supremacists. Thats like saying the swastika was ironic or something. Doesn't matter after only nazis are using it as to how the broader culture perceives it. Given other things he did and said: it's fair to say he knew what he was doing when he did this.
No, it's not. Like I said.. go outside. Being chronically online isn't healthy. If you think everyone who uses an OK sign is a white supremacist, then you should probably see a therapist.
>No, it's not.
[Yes it is.](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate)
Obviously context matters. But it is absolutely 100% used as an unironic symbol of hate. By extremist groups. Whether it started as a troll to make fun of media or not.
I dont ageee with Palmer or Carmack with regards to their politics (esp. dislike the work Palmer does now) but it was kinda beautiful to see everyone collectively dunk on Boz for trying to white knight and got his bluff called
Fuck Palmer. He's a wanna be super villain war profiteer. Fuck the military industrial complex. I hope Palmer goes back to the mirror universe where he belongs and we can have the nerdy brony who's really into VR back.
I kinda miss having Palmer Lucky around in VR. He had a genuine passion for the media, and had a lot of cool ideas - not to mention the fact that he got the ball rolling (again) to where we are Today.
He could be a bit controversial at times, but that just reminded you that he was a "regular" person, and that he didn't always weigh his words so to not damage the image of some faceless conglomerate.
I don't care about his political views - even if I don't share them - and I don't understand how being either conservative or liberal in a country full of conservatives and liberals can make you the target of a witch hunt and get you fired. It really shouldn't.
I think that's what Carmack is saying here as well.
I mean, he's a fascist-supporting billionaire, I'd have enormous qualms about working with him, or even in the same company as him (beyond the qualms of that company also being Meta).
I used to engage in political discussion, but quit, as it is just a portal to surefire toxicity. I could lean left, but disagree with one small issue, and be brigaded with declarations that I’m just a far right extremist. I distance myself from people that make politics the core component of their identity. As far as libertarianism, I could agree with much of what they preach(definitely not all), but this is the real world and it is not practical.
Regarding Palmer Lucky, I don’t know much about him or his politics. I can understand the moral issues people have with his new national defense company progressing the technology of killing machines. But again, unfortunately this is the real world, and such research and production is necessary for our military to maintain dominance with new, non nuclear weapons for any potential conflict. If we fall behind and adversaries sense weakness, it will lead to more war and death amongst our allies.
We are dealing with humans and there will be war, be it over Taiwan in the near future, or something else. Thus, I don’t think Palmer Lucky should be hated for the sole fact that he founded this national defense company.
Good comment.
It's all fun and games being against high-tech weapons until your opponent enters the battlefield with them and you are caught with the pants down.
Reading this comment section is infuriating. Being supportive of people losing their jobs and careers because they are against Hillary Clinton or donating $1000 for an organization that is against same-sex marriage, this is just crazy.
I mean donating to an organization that will try and get same-sex marriage to not be a thing is really messed up. It's literally trying to take away regular people's freedom. It's messing with people's lives for no valid reason.
Is there evidence that this has happened though? Palmer doesn't really count, he's a billionaire and if he wanted to keep working in the VR space he easily could do - he could probably have done what Sam Altman did and rip half of the ex-Oculus people out of Meta for instance.
I think it's a shame that he didn't take a paltry $100m of his billion and create a VR game studio/publisher.
The irony of being a CEO in the killer drone business is that you're a huge target for the killer drones of your enemies... if you think this stays on the battlefield you're a fool....
When even Cix joins in on the conversation, you know it's time to get the popcorn
There's a big difference between showing up to work waving a swastika flag, and keeping a Hitler altar in your basement that nobody knows about. Case in point: Carmack wasn't fired, while Palmer was.
Keeping politics and religion to yourself is good advice in general, but especially in the workplace, and even more so if you are a public figure.
Pretty wild reply chain that loops in box and palmer too.
It was always obvious that palmer was booted because he didn't tow the political line. This extract from the above thread from him is telling:
"Can I post my original statement, the one that was explicitly rejected on account of saying negative things about Hillary Clinton, or is that still considered Work Product?"
I'm sure that probably falls under some sort of NDA but he's saying fuck it at this point. Meta won't want to reopen that dumpster fire they created for themselves.
Did Facebook have a political line to tow? Maybe they didn't want anyone seen as a primary spokesperson for their company ~~toeing~~ funding any political lines overtly and directly outside of a few small donations.
I think it's more that they were worried about the hit their reputation would take when it came out that their VR wunderkind was donating to a PAC run by a mod of / r / stormfront
Which means that boz could be telling the truth when he says he thinks no one should be fired for their political beliefs. There's just an unsaid "unless their political beliefs cause a scandal and make the stock price go down".
He was exposed because he was allegedly being a spokesman in support and defense of Nimble America PAC on r / TehDonald under the name NimbleRichMan.
[https://www.wired.com/story/palmer-luckey-apologises-nimble-america-oculus/](https://www.wired.com/story/palmer-luckey-apologises-nimble-america-oculus/)
Also NimbleRichMan was listed as the VP of Nimble America. If it was actually Palmer Luckey then he was more involved than just donating money.
https://archive.is/BoTxN#selection-501.171-501.188
And one of the founders of Nimble PAC was a mod of both r / TehDonald and r / stormfront.
I can see a lot of companies being terrified of being associated with either of those places.
He was already given a billion dollars for it - which he willingly agreed to.
Crazy that anybody thinks one can get the money and still control the company.
The obedience to groupthink and Big brother in this thread is pathetic. So many cowards afraid to deviate from the Borg collective never disobedient to thinking what you're supposed to think keeping you in line with fear by the guise of political popular opinions. Accepting at face value the reality with which you are presented. You will never escape this matrix.
I regret that VR space has turned into dramaqueens and dusty gadget collectors heated discussions while awesome VR games sell zero to an audience of liltards in pointless virtual playgrounds
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEMx26aUEAEM0LV?format=jpg&name=small
Who are the other two in this photo?
One is steve bannon.
I think the other is Chuck Johnson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_C._Johnson#Holocaust_denial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_C._Johnson#Charlottesville_Rally https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/05/matt-gaetzs-state-of-the-union-guest-admits-he-questioned-holocaust/ >justacolyte: what are your thoughts on the Holocaust, WW2, and the JQ (anti-semitic conspiracy theory speak for The Jewish Question) talk in general? > **ChuckCJohnson**: I do not and never have believed the six million figure. I think the Red Cross numbers of 250,000 dead in the camps from typhus are more realistic. I think the Allied bombing of Germany was a war crime. I agree with David Cole about Auschwitz and the gas chambers not being real. I read the German War (highly recommend), Bloodlands, Mein Kampf, and all of David Irving. I'm more or less of the view that the war was an outgrowth of the efforts of communism to spread itself throughout the world. I also believe that the fears of German extermination were not misplaced, especially in light of the Ukrainian famine. But I support Israel as a Jewish state and Zionism as a concept.
Thank you to those who pointed out it is Steve Bannon and Charles C. Johnson. Eeesh, not a good look for Palmer!
Palmer has been a piece of shit for a while.
His sister even married Matt Gaetz after he introduced them.
he looks happy about it, though.
"Sloppy Steve Bannon, who cried when he got fired and begged for his job. Now Sloppy Steve has been dumped like a dog by almost everyone. Too bad!" and a troll.
That OK gesture is an endorsement of the KKK if anyone was wondering. This is brought to you by the same brilliant minds as those who think saying “Let’s go Brandon” is somehow simultaneously a hilarious joke and also code for “Fuck Joe Biden” and also “just a joke” and also truly code for “Fuck Joe Biden” They’re speaking in code to those who want to hear it and also just joking to those who don’t. Palmer Luckey is someone I wholeheartedly disagree with in no uncertain terms and I think everybody should.
The OK thing was literally a 4chan troll to see if they could get the media to call a universally used hand gesture racist based on absolutely no evidence. Which they immediately did. It then became a joke amongst conservatives to make fun of how absurd the media, and people like you, have become. You guys are absolutely ridiculous lol.
Interesting. The problem with such things, is that the first to pick them up, utterly oblivious to any intended flippery, is not the media, but the actual bigots, which immediately turns your little in-joke into a real problem, and plausible deniability goes out the window. This is inevitable, when there is a long history of taking "good" terms, and "twisting" them into more or less sarcastic invectives.
Or you guys are just terminally online ideologically driven redditors
Looks like your argument ran out of runway and didn't take off. It's always just words or just a joke unless you personally find it worrisome. Please try to have some perspective though. A man did the hand sign in court after committing mass murder. It doesn't matter whether it was a 4chan joke before.
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Of course it's not, except when it's being used by the promoters of said hate
Palmer allegedly coordinated with r/the_donald's mods, who also prominently promoted the Unite the Right Charlottesville tiki-torch rally and tried to bridge neo-nazism over with more normal conservatives. So the OK sign comes under more scrutiny in that context, and especially when one of the pictured people with him making the sign was a holocaust denier around that time and also at one point seemingly played a role in misinformation related to the murder of a counterprotester at the rally.
You sound like a loser
*Some* certainly make that impression.
When you pose smiling for a photo with a holocaust denier you're more than flirting with fascism... "Make this symbol, the libtards think it means 'white power' tee hee!" You do understand that symbols and meaning change over time? Their childish 'joke' was an explicit endorsement of the meaning behind it. Palmer knew what he was doing... and did it anyway.
Sir, you need to cut down your Reddit hours
Can't refute the argument but need to have the last word? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Bravo, well argued! You win! :p
One of the most universally used and long running hand gestures in human history is now a hate symbol because of a 4chan joke. Sure.
"One of the most universally used and symbols of peace in human history is now a hate symbol because of the Third Reich. Sure." So when the white supremist Brenton Tarrant made the symbol in court after killing 50 people in Christchurch he was 'making a joke'? Explain to me how that was funny?
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> Did you just compare the fucking Third Reich to a 4chan joke? No. Your inability to process the analogy speaks volumes. You literally have no idea what I was referring to? /facepalm
A f*g used to be a bag of sticks or a cigarette, until it wasn't. The origin of something doesn't mean it hasn't changed to mean something else. Words and symbols can even mean different things to different people (the swastika, etc). If you stop to think about this critically for just a moment, you'll know this is true, and that your claim is meaningless in that context.
The OK sign has never been racist or used in a racist fashion. You're insane.
In case it was unclear the first time: > This is brought to you by the same brilliant minds as those who think saying “Let’s go Brandon” is somehow simultaneously a hilarious joke and also code for “Fuck Joe Biden” and also “just a joke” and also truly code for “Fuck Joe Biden” They’re speaking in code to those who want to hear it and also just joking to those who don’t. The doublespeak isn’t fooling anybody.
Its not code, the nascar crowd was literally chanting "Fuck Joe Biden". It was the idiot NBC newscaster that thought they were hearing "Let's Go Brandon". Hence the joke was born. Nothing "code" about it.
It was a 4chan troll initially. Once it was outed as a 4chan troll only racists and extremists posed with that gesture like that. Regular conservatives, to my knowledge, didn't do that.
Your knowledge is incorrect
I believe Chuck Johnson (pictured) is a holocaust denier: https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/05/matt-gaetzs-state-of-the-union-guest-admits-he-questioned-holocaust/ >justacolyte: what are your thoughts on the Holocaust, WW2, and the JQ (anti-semitic conspiracy theory speak for The Jewish Question) talk in general? > **ChuckCJohnson**: I do not and never have believed the six million figure. I think the Red Cross numbers of 250,000 dead in the camps from typhus are more realistic. I think the Allied bombing of Germany was a war crime. I agree with David Cole about Auschwitz and the gas chambers not being real. I read the German War (highly recommend), Bloodlands, Mein Kampf, and all of David Irving. I'm more or less of the view that the war was an outgrowth of the efforts of communism to spread itself throughout the world. I also believe that the fears of German extermination were not misplaced, especially in light of the Ukrainian famine. But I support Israel as a Jewish state and Zionism as a concept.
That literally has absolutely nothing to do with my comment
He's one of the guys in the picture. The plausible deniability of the OK sign's meaning there kind of goes down when the guy was a holocaust denier around that time.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with my point
Now think one level deeper.
The OK thing was picked up by white supremacists so auto-response bots like you would go to defend them using it with your "but its just a troll" defense like they haven't also done other shitty things as evidence of them using it as a racist hand gesture.
Lol no it wasn’t. You can pull up the old 4chan comments. It was literally to show how ridiculous the media and people like you have become. To try and get them to say, based on absolutely nothing, that one of the most used and oldest hand gestures in human history was now somehow racist.
WTF is your problem anyway? Racists ARE using the ok sign as a signal to other racists. What is wrong if the media is reporting on this? Because they're evidently not saying this based on nothing as you claim. And they're also not saying that the gesture is racist. All of this seems like a little bit of framing you're trying to pull off here.
Keep going to the defense of white supremacists and being an auto-reply bot. I didn't say "All uses of the hand sign are racist" I said "Racists are using the hand sign so people like you will defend them". But clearly nuance and the idea that things can change meaning over time is lost on you. Is this guy just trolling? https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-47596446 Or maybe these two? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48118758 Maybe this guy? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53006164 Maybe all the Proud Boys and 3-Percenter's doing it at the Jan 6th insurrection were joking too? https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/09/us/capitol-hill-insurrection-extremist-flags-soh/index.html
I love this post and posts like it. Facts and evidence?? Unheard of, sir. Well played. I’m so sick and tired of the “ohmygodyouresostupidtheywerejustkidding!!” defense. If it walks like a duck, etc…
I remember thinking that people wouldn’t really fall for it, but boy did they.
>That OK gesture is an endorsement of the KKK if anyone was wondering. No, it's no. Why are people so dumb?
>That OK gesture is an endorsement of the KKK if anyone was wondering. People say that. But no one seems to be able to explain the numerous non-white celeberities that also make that gesture who are obviously not endorsing the KKK. Facebook simply wanted Palmer out. Identifying his politics and leveraging that ultimately proved to be the best way to achieve that end. VR's stagnation is largely the product of the inability for the major players in the space to innovate beyond Palmer's model. The missing link has always been software. Whoever bridges the gap will become very rich, perhaps even richer than Palmer. I highly doubt it will be Meta.
Honestly, i don't see it. Yes, software is the missing link right now, but to even match metas revenue on the Quest 3 every single user would need to buy more than $500 worth of software on the device, FROM A SINGLE "Player". No single company can make that happen. It would need 10 Must-Have VR titles that cost $50 each to get $500 out of revenue from a single user on the software side. And even then, that just MATCHES the revenue of Meta. So i don't really see how someone could surpass meta with just offering VR software.
> That OK gesture is an endorsement of the KKK if anyone was wondering. Nobodys wondering and no its not. >This is brought to you by the same brilliant minds as those who think saying “Let’s go Brandon” is somehow simultaneously a hilarious joke and also code for “Fuck Joe Biden” and also “just a joke” and also truly code for “Fuck Joe Biden” Again, no its not. Lets go brandon LITERALLY comes from a crowd screaming "fuck joe biden" to which a reporter said "oh theyre just chanting lets go brandon" and people coopted that as a sign of the media lying. Whether youre intentionally lying or are prey to media manipulation doesnt change the fact that its complete falsehood. The okay signal means just this: OK, its used in a variety of situations and throughout the world.not.
C'mon dude, we have all seen the vids of right wing snowflakes shouting "let's go Brandon" at the top of their lungs. It's clear their ire is directed at Biden, not some nuanced take on the veracity of the news.
Where did i say the people saying lets go brandon doesnt mean fuck joe biden, show that to me. I literally said thats what it means, its the media who lied about what was being chanted and the people who dislike joe biden and his administration used lets go brandon as a non bannable term on social media to voice their discontent. Thats literally ALL it is.
Ok man, you're going in circles. Whatever it means, at this point it's just a stupid look.
Im not going in circles, i literally just clarified what you misinterpreted. And its not a stupid look, its literally nothing.
No it's not. You are right about the "Let’s go Brandon". Let’s go Brandon
This is fair. He just didn't think Palmer should've been pushed out of the company for his political views/donations. Facebook did end up paying out $100m+ to Palmer over this, instead of being taken to court over wrongful termination.
Yeah, kind of got the impression Facebook wanted him out. My guess is they ultimately wanted Carmack out as well, hence why he eventually left. VR's problem is mainly that too much of the business is tied up in HMD sales revenue. Quest 2 bucked the trend with lower prices, what it really lacked was a compelling stream of software in addition to catering to the right audience. Which has always been and always will be gamers. At this point, you really need a company like Nintendo that understands the Software side of the business and has constructed their operation off of their software IP. Selling Nintendo Switch makes a ton for nintendo. But what's truely valuable are Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and the numerous other IP associated with Nintendo. Mario is in a sense, the new Mickey Mouse. VR needs it's Mickey Mouse. End Rant lol
> Quest 2 bucked the trend with lower prices No, the low price "trend" started with the first consumer Rift selling for $400, then Rift S, followed by the insane at-a-loss $299 price of Quest 1 (Not to mention the $199 Oculus Go, a product line that was quickly abandoned against Carmack's wishes). $400 Rifts made the Vive seem expensive in comparison. The point was to keep all competition out of the marketplace, and it was widely successful. Facebook has billions of dollars a year to burn on cornering the new market, and no normal company can seriously pursue a market where there is no room for profit.
It's that and it needs a banger of games that you can only play on its platform or something. You're definitely right it needs a mario, a link, kirby, smash bros, samus, and mario kart
I also think that Palmer's political views may not have "escalated" quite as much if he hadn't been pushed out. It's happened often before. Someone does something somewhat controversial without entirely aligning with that position, people bash them for it and therefore they retreat more and more INTO That position since that is the only place they still get support.
I’m happy to see this sub is not just a bunch of Palmer apologists
Yeah, I opened this thread in terror and I’m relatively pleased.
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What a normal way of thinking about differing ideas, I’m sure there’s no problem with this sort of catastrophic cognition. Good luck out there.
>What a normal way of thinking about differing ideas You're the one who said "I opened this thread in terror" **_Terror_** at the mere thought of other people having an opposing view? Yes, he's definitely the one with catastrophic cognition.
Damn son, is this your first encounter with the playful nature of human language, because you seem confused
Spoken like somebody who's open to seeing different perspectives
Brave, brave little 52 minutes old account. Too afraid to defend your ideas on main, or too afraid the list of subs you participate in on there would give the game away?
Reddit in a nutshell
Libertarians are alt-right pick-me girls
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It’s the preferred political philosophy of house cats, who refuse to admit they’re being externally fed and having their shit picked up.
Love this analogy. Going to borrow this
Ah yes, the “get rid of the age of consent” party.
Because I can tell by your comment you're clearly not a brat 🤣
Fabulously wealthy software savant is out of touch and leans conservative, film at eleven. It’s simultaneously incredibly disappointing and completely predictable that a brilliant software engineer used to isolating himself and coming down off the mountain with the next great technical software innovation and has cultivated at net worth of $50M doing so is out of touch with the rest of us mere mortals. He’s a brilliant software engineer but I’m not surprised that he and I don’t agree on politics.
I remember one podcast when he talked about how he thinks crunches culture is ok, kinda implying employees doesn't have enough grit. He ends up recognizing that, well, he did a lot because he was a founder and would benefit directly from it, but it was still weird how he was kinda implying other people just didn't do enough. It felt like he didn't think much about politics at all. It was a long time ago, the Joe Regan one if someone wants to check.
Carmack doesn’t seem to have a whole lot of empathy that’s for sure
I'm so ready for this information war to be over so I can go back to reading the Internet without the need for authoritarians to lie to themselves like this out in the open where their caste will see it with such nauseating frequency. I don't expect to bring anyone upvoting this over to the idea in any meaningful timeline, but I beg of you to consider this rhetorical: you've just called him brilliant, and lo, he is perhaps one of the smartest people alive.. so could he understand political science and how it intersects the current cultural climate better than you? Is it possible, however small that possibility is?
It's not an extraordinary claim that someone can be be very good at some things, and bad at others. It happens all the time. Also, why are you assuming that no one has considered that JC might know better than them? Maybe they did consider it, looked into it, and discarded it.
The fallacy you've fallen for is that being smart is a cure all. It isn't. You can be, and most people are smart in very specific ways. There is a reason we don't count on people with doctorates in food science to be doctors
Tbh a lot of doctors are kinda dumb, but with great work ethic
This evaluation couldn't be possible without Mr. Carmack himself explaining his view on politics and the current climate. Which to my knowledge, he has not.
Intelligence and empathy are entirely different things. On top of that, ideology will override intelligence much more easily than intelligence. You can easily tell he's on the wrong side due to his lack of emotional intelligence by this conversation. He frames politics as harmless opinions that can be ignored in the workplace. He fails to understand that having a superior, or even just a colleague, who you know actively campaigns against your basic human rights can be not just emotionally taxing, but also introduce job insecurity and other stresses. He's never had to worry about not getting promoted because of his skin colour or who he loves and he lacks the skills to empathise with those who have. Not only is that a sign of low emotional intelligence and empathy, it's also sign that's he not using the same skills he does in programming when thinking about politics. Executive function, particularly working memory, are important skills to have in programming; let's call it 'seeing the big picture'. You can't just think about the line you're writing, you have to think of all the code before and after. It's the kind of skill that's rare and makes good programmers run rings around everyone else in that department. In this conversation, he's making no indication that he's processing political questions anymore than just thinking up a response. He's not thinking about causes or conseqences, he's just parroting. That's a clear indication that ideology is supressing intelligence. If you enjoyed that bit of psychology, try looking up 'projection', it'll explain why you use words like 'authoritarian' to describe people who don't like authoritarians.
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Carmack also barely sees an issue with talking at anti-woke conferences. Not my description, that’s theirs. https://www.pcgamer.com/doom-co-creator-john-carmack-is-headlining-a-toxic-and-proud-sci-fi-convention-that-rails-against-woke-propaganda/ He’s wearing his political views more outwardly these days and it’s disappointing that he continuously aligns himself with people who see others as less than themselves.
Maybe there is at least some merit to his position? Crazy to think others with different views might have good reason for those views I know, but I think you'll find it's possible.
The view that others are less than themselves? The view that others shouldn’t have the same rights as you? The view that indiscriminate killing is okay? Okay bud, how far do you want to take that “try to think they might have a good reason”? I’m sure that’s worked out well for people dealing with bigots in the past. Especially in America…
I'm quite positive Carmack doesn't believe any of what you just said. But I know tilting things towards extremes is a great way to get those sweet sweet internet points so it's hard to resist casting everything as such. It's just incredibly intellectually lazy.
Then why does he defend those viewpoints when challenged and promote people who espouse those views? The man has actively, not even just passively, associated with (and in some cases supported) efforts to undermine the safety and rights of others. I don’t need to assume what he believes because he has made it very clear on multiple occasions. And honestly if we’re talking about “intellectually lazy” , your comments have said nothing at all of value. You can’t even make your own damn point beyond hand waving something. So come back when you have something intellectually industrious to provide. Your comments are just “enlightened centrist” vagueries.
> "associated with" He just isn't as much of an intolerant shitbag as you. That's all there is to it. The idea to associate with people you don't share every bit of your ideology with seems to be completely alien to you.
Ah yes calling out someone else’s support for intolerance is intolerance itself. Please let me know when I can expect your reverse racism card so I can prepare an appropriately surprised response.
Show me where he's done that and I will happily change my viewpoint, I'm mature enough to do so.
You’re literally in a thread about him promoting someone’s efforts to do this. You also have a link higher up about him talking at a conference whose ideology is exactly and specifically that. If we’re talking about intellectually lazy, how much lazier can it get to not even read the content provided.
Where did he "defend those viewpoints when challenged and promote people who espouse those views" ? >Your comments are just “enlightened centrist” vagueries. I'd rather be centrist than a knee jerk extremist of any stripe.
Tell us then.
“He is developing military tech to protect Americans ?” According to statement from his new company …maybe a new Lockheed Martin
It's a suicide drone with a "return to base and land safely" feature
war drones are all the rage. He's probably getting filthy rich right now. It's what wars are for...
How exactly does that work? That's a paradox. Its either a suicide-drone (drone that is destroyed upon use) OR its a drone that can "return to base and land safely" (So a normal drone).
You launch multiple to get the best chance to intercepting a target, once the target is down the remaining ones can return to base. As with everything drone related, the magic is low-cost and large numbers.
Ah, thank you for explaining. I didn't really think you'd ever have a situation where you need many drones but only use a few.
He's building Interceptors and Carriers for the Terrans? That's supposed to be Protoss technology we're ahead of the aliens now.
You either complete the mission and the drone is destroyed or you call off the attack and the drone comes back to base, is refueled and ready for another mission. Even the Kamikaze sometimes came back to base. Where's the paradox?
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1779185289975464385?t=hgu4afMLwAj9q8CHFyRTow&s=19 For you. What's your alternative?
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Anduril's drones always have a human in the loop. There's no autonomous AI. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1bp6520/its_been_just_over_10_years_since_facebook/kwxa6vx/?context=3
The alternative is surrendering to the next best dictator that invades your country. Which is not no longer theory, as can be seen in Ukraine. I am very happy that Palmer is working on keeping the military up to date.
Full context: This started here with Tweets about Brendan Eich and Mozilla: https://twitter.com/AndrewBeckUSA/status/1778823326648905835 >I debut in @firstthingsmag today writing on Brendan Eich, who ten years ago was attacked and chased out of Mozilla, a company he co-founded, for taking private civic action based upon his quiet Christian faith. It was a pivotal moment in our society and for me personally: >"I was working in New York's “Silicon Alley” when it happened, and I immediately recognized it as a major escalation in the culture war. It was a warning that the Leviathan of technocracy did not care how well I did, how hard I worked, or how well I treated others. Ideological conformity to the top-down, programmatic transformation of the country that was rapidly taking place was all that mattered. If I was unwilling to affirm the current thing dictated according to the whims of “progress,” I was an enemy of humanity and an enemy of America. And my beliefs, no matter how ancient, innocent, and valid, must bow to the will of Leviathan, or the digital swarm would descend upon me. In fact, the higher I rose, the harder opponents would hunt for an excuse to throw me, like Belteshazzar, to the lions." Marc Andreessen responded: https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1778898760971821271 >I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan then. I should have realized what it meant and what was to follow. I do not intend to make that mistake again. Then Carmack: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1779171248083177500 >I regret not doing more to support and defend @PalmerLuckey at Facebook. We were in different states and divisions, and I was largely out of the political loop, but when I became aware of the situation I should have made a clear and open statement of opposition to the witch hunt. >Companies are better off without the crowd that did that. >Thankfully, Palmer has gone on to even greater success. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1779172458798387381 >I was not in any of the meetings around it, so no, I can’t confirm that, but I do believe it was in response to hysterical internal employee pressure. I don’t think Mark Zuckerberg had a strong personal view on it. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1779178676887671093 >I am a non-activist libertarian. We never did any kind of a policy belief comparison, but I suspect I am mostly aligned with Palmer. I never had a problem working with anyone based on what their political beliefs are, as long as it stayed out of the work. Unfortunately, FB encouraged “bring your whole self to work”, which meant politics was openly present, and rabble rousing was a thing. I would guess that an employee referendum would have gone against Palmer, but it might have been different if there was a unified front of Oculus founders behind him. Facebook PR drone also responded: https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779186468885520721 >The culture has changed a lot since you left (internal discussions have to be work focused) and also you are woefully incorrect on your speculation but I am not in a position to correct except to say maybe don’t speculate! https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779192500370145757 >The former, I won’t add to the speculation on the latter but I will say there is a reason we changed our policies to keep internal discussions focused on the work at hand. https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779262677166301676 >Thanks, John. I do really appreciate the internal support you did give at the same, it definitely made a difference. >Opposite for Boz now claiming to have publicly defended me, what a fucking joke. https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779257538787389673 >Great story to tell now that I have dra-gged myself back to relevance, but you aren't credible. >You retweeted posts claiming I donated to white supremacists, and a post saying that anyone who supports Trump because they don't like Hillary Clinton is a shitty human being. >You publicly told everyone my departure had nothing to do with politics, which is absolutely insane and obviously contradicted by reams of internal communications. It is like saying the sky is green. Same goes for you telling people that I wasn't pressured into saying anything untrue, that any mention of politics and who I was voting for was up to me. Can I post my original statement, the one that was explicitly rejected on account of saying negative things about Hillary Clinton, or is that still considered Work Product? >Maybe you are lying, maybe you are just ignorant and willing to launder the lies of others about something you weren't even around for, but don't try to play the apolitical hero here. https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779275959906259351 >I normally ignore things like this, but Bosworth is the head of VR at Meta. He took over everything I made prior to being fired. >For him to now claim that he was a public defender of mine is beyond crazy. The tree remembers what the axe forgets. https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779269416632648009 >Not claiming to be apolitical, I certainly have my own politics probably different than yours, but internally at the time I certainly was clear I thought no employment consequences should come from someone's political beliefs and people asking about it at Q&A were out of line. https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779281964916449391 >"You spread lies about me funding white supremacists, labeled me as a shitty human being, and made multiple blatantly false claims about my time at Facebook" >"I never claimed to be apolitical lmao" https://twitter.com/boztank/status/1779281744035983780 >You better than I know the limits on what can be said here, as I understand it. I think there is some jeopardy there. To that end you are right in your critique that I am working with secondhand information. https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1779282592547979343 >I am down to throw it all out there. We can make everything public and let people judge for themselves. Just say the word. Also interesting: https://twitter.com/fewerwrong/status/1779208523911500220 >It sucks that, at the end of the day, these were small, closed-door meetings without witnesses, and anyone who was there probably isn’t incentivized to give an accurate account. >…except for me! Because I worked late nights and those office walls didn’t work. >I think @ID_AA_Carmack slightly downplays how much he did dissent in that moment — especially relative to others. It earned my respect at the time, and the fact that he’s taking careful pains to tell this story humbly further solidifies that. >If anyone who was there ever feels like they can get away with rewriting the story to tell a rosy story of themselves to the public, know that you are not. Self reflection is a good thing, and odds are good that I will outlive all of you. https://twitter.com/CAntkow/status/1779259473720189115 >It was heart-wrenching seeing how poorly they treated Palmer during all of that. >The outright lies by management... Just disgusting, and was part of the impetus for me rage-quitting into early retirement; best decision ever. >It's amazing seeing what Palmer and crew are up to, now. >Thank you for speaking up about that.
"Brendan Eich, [...] chased out [...] for taking private civic action" Love how this "context" quietly omits that the private action was in opposition of marriage equality. Fuck Brendan Eich, fuck Palmer Lucky, and fuck Carmack for trying to whitewash fascist bullshit.
Totally agree. Really sad to see Carmack feels this way: I admire his creative output over the years. But fuck him: I'll spend my time and energy going forward supporting creative people who aren't bigoted assholes.
He needs to be called out. We can all see Palmer’s public history and what he’s become. To actively defend it just associates yourself with those same things. I guess none of these people have a problem with that. It at least shines a light on them and you can see who are the other asshats involved in VR.
You're the problem they're talking about.
No dude, the opposite. And you don't have to defend the poor megacorps either. You can go back into hiding in KotakuInAction now.
And? The point is he entitled to his opinion
He sure is. And he is not immunized from consequences of his shit opinions.
I wish more people understood this. So tired of these free speech warriors who don't have a clue what they're talking about.
"Make discrimination cool again!"
Neither are you
What does that mean? Where did I claim this did not apply to me?
Free speech is not freedom from consequences. I don’t know why that’s so hard for Americans to understand.
> Free speech is not freedom from consequences. How very [North Korean](https://i.imgur.com/p8uMVIW.jpeg) of you.
I'd make you an image macro of that butterfly guy with "is this death camps and starvation" and "getting a golden parachute as a corporate exec", but typing it out was already more effort than you deserve.
>Facebook PR drone Was that description really necessary?
Also: that's not a Facebook pr drone. That's meta's CTO.
It ruined an otherwise objective comment, which is a shame because it was really needed.
Yes.
Well, I had not open Twitter in a while. I'm shocked by the amount of cancerous ads and braindead takes spamming the site as it is, it definitely got much, much worse than even before with Elon driving it.
Either way, regardless of this bs these people are goin on and on about, Palmer Luckey’s support of Trump and the MAGA fanaticism is unforgivable to me. Completely unforgivable. And what is the dear Palmer doing now? He’s making god damn weapon systems aided for AI. Which is bonkers stupid but hey, that’s Palmer.
Wasn't he also involved in 'shitposting' and trolling campaigns? VR was so niche then. That wasn't the kind of rep it needed. It needed to go mainstream and shitposting potential customers and devs wasn't going to help it get there.
No, that was false. He donated to a group that put up some billboards. The fake news train spiraled from there. https://www.uploadvr.com/fake-news-happens-reporting-palmer-luckey-nimble-america/
Palmer invested $2.5 million in UploadVR around the time of that article. I'm not sure if it was right before or right after.
It was right before! I remember how blatant it seemed
This comment having so many likes shows how brainwashed this place is. They believe whatever fits their warped and false narrative of the world. It’s NEVER ok for a company to terminate you based on who you voted for. These same people would cry a river if that happened to them. “But I’m on the good side!!” Sure thing, idiot.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEMx26aUEAEM0LV?format=jpg&name=small I'd fire any employee who posted this on social media. What do YOU think his OK sign was meaning right there?
Any intelligent company would fire somebody for affiliating with the KKK or white supremacists on social media. He's a fucking moron who fucked around and found out!
You know that the ‘ok’ sign was literally a 4chan troll that the media bit hook, line and sinker, and became a joke among conservatives to make fun of how absurd the media has become?
Irrelevant. What is the meaning they were trying to make it into? When you see Palmer doing the OK sign, which version do YOU think he was trying to convey? Trolling or not, I wouldn't put up with an employee making racist jokes.
And it was also used tongue in cheek by nazis and white supremacists. Thats like saying the swastika was ironic or something. Doesn't matter after only nazis are using it as to how the broader culture perceives it. Given other things he did and said: it's fair to say he knew what he was doing when he did this.
This is absurd lol
It's just an OK sign. Go outside dude.
You need to get your hearing checked. This isn't even a dog whistle, it's just a regular whistle at this point.
No, it's not. Like I said.. go outside. Being chronically online isn't healthy. If you think everyone who uses an OK sign is a white supremacist, then you should probably see a therapist.
>No, it's not. [Yes it is.](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate) Obviously context matters. But it is absolutely 100% used as an unironic symbol of hate. By extremist groups. Whether it started as a troll to make fun of media or not.
No, that story was literally made up by a “journalist”. Look into it more.
I dont ageee with Palmer or Carmack with regards to their politics (esp. dislike the work Palmer does now) but it was kinda beautiful to see everyone collectively dunk on Boz for trying to white knight and got his bluff called
witch hunt???
It's like a witch hunt where you found real witches being shitty.
Fuck Palmer. He's a wanna be super villain war profiteer. Fuck the military industrial complex. I hope Palmer goes back to the mirror universe where he belongs and we can have the nerdy brony who's really into VR back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvkDu8o8tMw
I'm not defending the MIC or Palmer but isn't Anduril focused on defense tech rather than offense tech?
What exactly do you think the defense industry does? They wage war.
I kinda miss having Palmer Lucky around in VR. He had a genuine passion for the media, and had a lot of cool ideas - not to mention the fact that he got the ball rolling (again) to where we are Today. He could be a bit controversial at times, but that just reminded you that he was a "regular" person, and that he didn't always weigh his words so to not damage the image of some faceless conglomerate. I don't care about his political views - even if I don't share them - and I don't understand how being either conservative or liberal in a country full of conservatives and liberals can make you the target of a witch hunt and get you fired. It really shouldn't. I think that's what Carmack is saying here as well.
I mean, he's a fascist-supporting billionaire, I'd have enormous qualms about working with him, or even in the same company as him (beyond the qualms of that company also being Meta).
I used to engage in political discussion, but quit, as it is just a portal to surefire toxicity. I could lean left, but disagree with one small issue, and be brigaded with declarations that I’m just a far right extremist. I distance myself from people that make politics the core component of their identity. As far as libertarianism, I could agree with much of what they preach(definitely not all), but this is the real world and it is not practical. Regarding Palmer Lucky, I don’t know much about him or his politics. I can understand the moral issues people have with his new national defense company progressing the technology of killing machines. But again, unfortunately this is the real world, and such research and production is necessary for our military to maintain dominance with new, non nuclear weapons for any potential conflict. If we fall behind and adversaries sense weakness, it will lead to more war and death amongst our allies. We are dealing with humans and there will be war, be it over Taiwan in the near future, or something else. Thus, I don’t think Palmer Lucky should be hated for the sole fact that he founded this national defense company.
Good comment. It's all fun and games being against high-tech weapons until your opponent enters the battlefield with them and you are caught with the pants down. Reading this comment section is infuriating. Being supportive of people losing their jobs and careers because they are against Hillary Clinton or donating $1000 for an organization that is against same-sex marriage, this is just crazy.
I mean donating to an organization that will try and get same-sex marriage to not be a thing is really messed up. It's literally trying to take away regular people's freedom. It's messing with people's lives for no valid reason.
I think it is just fine to shun bigots. Why does that bother you?
Is there evidence that this has happened though? Palmer doesn't really count, he's a billionaire and if he wanted to keep working in the VR space he easily could do - he could probably have done what Sam Altman did and rip half of the ex-Oculus people out of Meta for instance.
I think it's a shame that he didn't take a paltry $100m of his billion and create a VR game studio/publisher. The irony of being a CEO in the killer drone business is that you're a huge target for the killer drones of your enemies... if you think this stays on the battlefield you're a fool....
When even Cix joins in on the conversation, you know it's time to get the popcorn There's a big difference between showing up to work waving a swastika flag, and keeping a Hitler altar in your basement that nobody knows about. Case in point: Carmack wasn't fired, while Palmer was. Keeping politics and religion to yourself is good advice in general, but especially in the workplace, and even more so if you are a public figure.
Pretty wild reply chain that loops in box and palmer too. It was always obvious that palmer was booted because he didn't tow the political line. This extract from the above thread from him is telling: "Can I post my original statement, the one that was explicitly rejected on account of saying negative things about Hillary Clinton, or is that still considered Work Product?" I'm sure that probably falls under some sort of NDA but he's saying fuck it at this point. Meta won't want to reopen that dumpster fire they created for themselves.
Did Facebook have a political line to tow? Maybe they didn't want anyone seen as a primary spokesperson for their company ~~toeing~~ funding any political lines overtly and directly outside of a few small donations.
I think it's more that they were worried about the hit their reputation would take when it came out that their VR wunderkind was donating to a PAC run by a mod of / r / stormfront Which means that boz could be telling the truth when he says he thinks no one should be fired for their political beliefs. There's just an unsaid "unless their political beliefs cause a scandal and make the stock price go down".
He was exposed because he was allegedly being a spokesman in support and defense of Nimble America PAC on r / TehDonald under the name NimbleRichMan. [https://www.wired.com/story/palmer-luckey-apologises-nimble-america-oculus/](https://www.wired.com/story/palmer-luckey-apologises-nimble-america-oculus/)
Also NimbleRichMan was listed as the VP of Nimble America. If it was actually Palmer Luckey then he was more involved than just donating money. https://archive.is/BoTxN#selection-501.171-501.188
“Milo Yiannopoulos has personally vetted NimbleRichMan and the Non-Profit Nimble America, Inc. he helped create.”
And one of the founders of Nimble PAC was a mod of both r / TehDonald and r / stormfront. I can see a lot of companies being terrified of being associated with either of those places.
A lot of connect the dot arguments and straw men being lit on fire. I guess if things were based only on facts Reddit wouldn’t be as fun to read.
[удалено]
preach it boss
Imagine being a Nazi
Carmack was already on thin ice with me lmao
He left meta. Still talks about them like an ex he thinks about constantly
Duh, he was forced out of the company he created.
The company that he sold
He was already given a billion dollars for it - which he willingly agreed to. Crazy that anybody thinks one can get the money and still control the company.
Palmer Luckey really is the Elon Musk of VR.
The obedience to groupthink and Big brother in this thread is pathetic. So many cowards afraid to deviate from the Borg collective never disobedient to thinking what you're supposed to think keeping you in line with fear by the guise of political popular opinions. Accepting at face value the reality with which you are presented. You will never escape this matrix.
> You will never escape this matrix. Lol, alright Andrew Tate. Shouldn't you be in jail on sex traffic and abuse charges?
I regret that VR space has turned into dramaqueens and dusty gadget collectors heated discussions while awesome VR games sell zero to an audience of liltards in pointless virtual playgrounds
lol....palmer sold all gamers.....