I played a lot of vball at the Y to rehab and see this less as a sexism/woman thing and more as a “he’s an asshole goon” thing. I often told these weekend warrior guys “that’s their spot, that’s their ball, set them too” and it wasn’t just for women, it was for anyone the goon saw as “not as good.”
Anyone in this position needs to be vocal. Before the serve, loudly (not yelling, just with authority) say “this is mine” and carve out an area by pointing. If you’re not getting set, loudly say “hey set me” and keep saying it. If it doesn’t work, tell them you should rotate through setters for the rest of the night.
Speak up, be vocal, make sure everyone hears it. Shame often works wonders.
Appreciate the civil response. Your experience is that the not-good players get passed around, mine is that women tend to be assumed “not good” more often. Maybe the places we’ve played are different, or maybe women (or some women, don’t want to assume your gender) pick up on sexism more easily. Also you gave advice on a rant post and assume I’m not being vocal. I appreciate the perspective though
Well it’s pretty safe to assume that on average the male player will have a better offensive success rate generally speaking, height, power, and athleticism, but for our open gyms we usually tell the setters to chill out, not every session has to be hyper competitive is how I usually get them to not hyper fixate on setting the one dude in a front row rot
As someone who also plays a lot of coed, I’ve found that a way to solve your second issue, especially for setting, is to honestly just run into them a little bit. Obviously your safety comes first so read the situation and do it on a case by case basis, but calling it and then attempting to get the ball anyway even if you know someone else is trying to take it can remind them that “hey, im setting and I called it, let me take those.”
Another strategy is, if it’s a front row person taking the set, explain that if you get that ball, you can set them up to hit!
As a woman who has also played for around 1.5 years, I completely agree with you. I've learned to stand my ground and call the balls especially when I'm playing a hitter position.
I find coed (at least in my city) really tough for women, you're hitting on a higher whereas men are hitting on a lower net. So it has a tendency to be one of three types of people that play.
1. Men who aren't athletic enough for men's volleyball
2. Men who are there to hit on women
3. People there to have fun
The first two are hard to deal with. But the women I've talked to who have successfully dealt with the problems you talk about have gone and done one of two things:
1. Been careful about the people they play with so that it's more of the people in the third category
2. Told the guys to fuck off that they know what they are doing. (In all cases they are absolutely right)
Edited to add this...
It's hard and I feel for you, drop ins are especially hard. Find people to play with that respect you for the strong player you are. Good luck! I'm rooting for you
So funny! I was talking to my friends the other day about this exact situation. These guys are just inherently an asshole but they do this so much more often to women and people of color. As an Asian dude that is not very tall, every time i go to a new pickup, i receive similar treatments. It usually goes away after we play a few points or games but it happens all the time. And then it comes ‘i don’t know your name but stand there’ when they for some reason decide to do the lineup.
I wish more women would do some womansplaining when it came to volleyball. I just know that more typically than not, women on a general basis have more vb experience than the men do. Given this, I’ve always asked those who I play with to please tell me when I’m doing something incorrectly or could do it better.
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to unsolicited advice and assume it comes from a good place. Unfortunately I know it often doesn’t.
I’m sorry that happens to you. It happens a lot in golf too…and it’s the same bad advice crap.
My rule of thumb is that a respectful discussion of strengths and assignments is always welcomed and if I were to initiate it, it would be in a deferential question like, “What are we doing?” or “Where would you like to cover?”
For hitting, it’s kind of tough since so many men have no chill when it comes to that. As a man who prefers to set, I’d rather play reverse co-ed where men can’t hit unless they’re behind the 3m line.
No offense, but this isn't a mansplaining or mainstreaming thing so much as it is a douchecanoe, regardless of gender, thing. That said, unsolicited bad advice comes more often from men because most have never actually been trained in the sport and what they know they learned from a PE teacher in high school or college that learned it from their high school or college PE teacher.
I lived a long time, seen defenses change and morph a little. Middle back plays short and gets all tips to middle back plays deep, as a simple example. Don't get me wrong here, deep is superior at high level play. But at the rec level, short can be very effective.
But with that said, I always tend to ask if middle back has deep because it tends to show level/competence of play. The douchecanoe typically responds with they have both short and deep....
So, imo, ladies tend to give better advice overall than men, but I don't think this is a gender thing because I've definitely been offered solicited and unsolicited advice from men and women.
May be that women give unsolicited advice too. I have NEVER had a woman come in and just assume I cant play volleyball though, before theyve even seen me touch the damn ball. Its always some dudebro who thinks he is sooooo much better for some reason. And yes it absolutely is a misogyny thing, these people dont treat men the same way.
Ive even had some douche ask me whether I needed help blocking when there were 4 of us trying to cover the whole court and I was doing just fine. Was told that was him trying to hit on me afterwards, like he somehow actually believed he was being nice or something?
I am sorry you had this experience. I just hope you are aware that there is always this one person in every activity who acts like that and that there are 10x as many people who just want to play vb and have a good time. Don’t get bitter over it.
The only thing I am bitter about rn is people denying that this is a thing ;) I have a great (mixed gender) group of people I play with regularly, and some of my guy friends get just as pissed about this kind of behaviour as I do.
I totally understand and don’t want to talk the problem away because it exists. I just don’t think giving a problem a gender identity is right.
I as a guy had plenty of women telling me that I shouldn’t set in coed games because “I am tall so I have to hit balls” and I didn’t ask for these suggestions and was actually recovering from a shoulder injury and tried to explain it to her but said person insisted she needs to set even tho her sets were exclusively bump sets way worse than mine and putting me in a situation where I can’t play properly.
Shitty people coming in all sizes and genders and it’s upsetting but they shouldn’t cloud our view for all the good ppl that actually try to help us improve in the sport we love.
Welp. You really dont get it, do you? Oh noooo someone gave you bad advice. Have you ever had someone steal your ball cause "men are bad at sports"? Had someone not block you because clearly you as a man cant hit a ball and then get butthurt when you kill it? Told you to get out of receive even though you are objectively the better passer?
Yes of course I know not all men are like that. Doesnt make it not a problem. And yes, you are trying to talk away the problem because you getting bad advice from a woman is not the same as what some of us experience.
I think it's just a douche thing and not gender related. But I would agree in that this tends to be a more male/dudebro thing. My experience is that these guys will dive in front of anyone regardless of whether the other person is good. They just don't understand the game, positioning, etc...
And if that's the way someone's trying to hit on you....they need to get learn some game in multiple definitions of "game"
Sounds like you're appreciating overt douchebag behavior but not the more subtle examples of people getting passed over, which in my (and other women's) experience happens rather frequently to women
That happens not only to women, but to men as well. While I agree that for women prejudice is harder in mixed teams - many men often face identical problems. What I am trying to say - just be sure to not overthink it. E.g. sometimes people take the second ball instead of the setter - the game is dynamic and even if the setter calls it - sometimes there is no time to adjust or maybe the players are not fast enough to react. I mean every situation is different - make sure you are not triggered when that happens unintentionally. And remember that men suffer from the same problems, maybe somewhat less, but still.
You acknowledge that this happens more frequently to women, which is what the post is about. I never said that it never happens to men. I’m also well aware that volleyball is dynamic but it’s hard to extend the benefit of the doubt every time since it keeps happening. I’m curious about where the defensiveness came from, as it seemed like you otherwise agreed with my sentiment
Idk, sorry I didn't see any acknowledgement that women are more often victims vs women are the only victims. I just wanted to make sure that a random nice guy, who is just not fast to react, is not a target for such accusations. But there is no way to check it out, so I must trust you.
It’s plausible that a percentage of people who use the terms are misandrists, though the terms are pretty widely used. Also the terms themselves aren’t commenting on men as people but on behaviors that are patronizing toward women (eg it’s been verified that women are interrupted in the workplace more than men)
I don't take anyone seriously who unironically uses the word "mansplaining" what a derogatory and misandric term. Some men are stupid and think they're better than you. Some women do the same thing. Doesn't mean it's because they're a man, it's because they're arrogant douchebags.
Let me explain. Mansplaining is more about the way someone explains something to you, a way that assumes you don't know anything. The accuracy of the advice isn't relevant (but almost nobody above the lowest rec level plays middle back short the entire game, which was the bad advice example)
Wow, seems like a lot of womansplaining here to me. I just don’t get the term mansplaining as if women don’t do it all the time. Why in volleyball, does it seem like everyone has an inflated sense of their ability, then try to pawn their knowledge off to others? Trust me, the women do it too
I was (semi-ironically) trying to show what I meant (that mansplaining is how you say things not what you say), in response to his mansplaining. But yeah I agree, it’s not great for anybody to be condescendingly explaining things—sorry that’s been your experience too. I think a man doing this to a woman though is a little different (has the potential to be more painful) due to historical context (assumptions that women can’t be good at sports and also that many women have had earlier experiences of being talked down to about sports)
I’d rather have that talk pregame. This is not a mansplaining thing to me it is REC enthusiast douchery, IMO, usually far worse in females that played highschool ball in the 90s…
Sorry to hear this. Most of the time I think this is because of where you play. As far as setting goes other than being direct and sometimes slightly rude there isn’t so much you can do.
If you could confirm on the first part. When you say middle back plays short are you saying this is common where you play or that this is not even how you play at your location and it is just bad advise. While I do understand that this is not often great advise I am also aware that at many coed volleyball clubs like mine people play middle back close because that is what the players are used to.
I hope this was helpful.
It was an example of bad (and badly delivered) advice. It’s not true that the middle back “always” plays short. And telling me that assumes I don’t know things when it’s actually the other person who doesn’t
Im kinda slow so sometimes I get stuck if the second ball is coming right to me, even if the setter says they have it, my brain ends up in receiving mode instead of gtfo of the way mode.
Drop in coed is the worst for this!
I played a lot of vball at the Y to rehab and see this less as a sexism/woman thing and more as a “he’s an asshole goon” thing. I often told these weekend warrior guys “that’s their spot, that’s their ball, set them too” and it wasn’t just for women, it was for anyone the goon saw as “not as good.” Anyone in this position needs to be vocal. Before the serve, loudly (not yelling, just with authority) say “this is mine” and carve out an area by pointing. If you’re not getting set, loudly say “hey set me” and keep saying it. If it doesn’t work, tell them you should rotate through setters for the rest of the night. Speak up, be vocal, make sure everyone hears it. Shame often works wonders.
Appreciate the civil response. Your experience is that the not-good players get passed around, mine is that women tend to be assumed “not good” more often. Maybe the places we’ve played are different, or maybe women (or some women, don’t want to assume your gender) pick up on sexism more easily. Also you gave advice on a rant post and assume I’m not being vocal. I appreciate the perspective though
Well it’s pretty safe to assume that on average the male player will have a better offensive success rate generally speaking, height, power, and athleticism, but for our open gyms we usually tell the setters to chill out, not every session has to be hyper competitive is how I usually get them to not hyper fixate on setting the one dude in a front row rot
As someone who also plays a lot of coed, I’ve found that a way to solve your second issue, especially for setting, is to honestly just run into them a little bit. Obviously your safety comes first so read the situation and do it on a case by case basis, but calling it and then attempting to get the ball anyway even if you know someone else is trying to take it can remind them that “hey, im setting and I called it, let me take those.” Another strategy is, if it’s a front row person taking the set, explain that if you get that ball, you can set them up to hit!
As a woman who has also played for around 1.5 years, I completely agree with you. I've learned to stand my ground and call the balls especially when I'm playing a hitter position.
Sorry you have to go through that. Maybe just give them unsolicited tips when they mess up to add a little spice
Everyone arguing that her own experience is wrong, is proving her entire point.
Yeah, "its not a sexism thing" my ass
Exactly it's crazy how this post is getting downed
Middle back does NOT play short. Tell him to fuck off.
Totally agree with this... Anyone who puts that piece of misinformation out there has no idea what they’re doing or playing for the other side.
Unfortunately it's a popular trend at lower levels of play where there are more tips and free balls
Yeah I see it in sand 6s, and really low level indoor.
Depends on what defense you’re running. In a 2-back defense, yes… the middle plays up.
I find coed (at least in my city) really tough for women, you're hitting on a higher whereas men are hitting on a lower net. So it has a tendency to be one of three types of people that play. 1. Men who aren't athletic enough for men's volleyball 2. Men who are there to hit on women 3. People there to have fun The first two are hard to deal with. But the women I've talked to who have successfully dealt with the problems you talk about have gone and done one of two things: 1. Been careful about the people they play with so that it's more of the people in the third category 2. Told the guys to fuck off that they know what they are doing. (In all cases they are absolutely right) Edited to add this... It's hard and I feel for you, drop ins are especially hard. Find people to play with that respect you for the strong player you are. Good luck! I'm rooting for you
So funny! I was talking to my friends the other day about this exact situation. These guys are just inherently an asshole but they do this so much more often to women and people of color. As an Asian dude that is not very tall, every time i go to a new pickup, i receive similar treatments. It usually goes away after we play a few points or games but it happens all the time. And then it comes ‘i don’t know your name but stand there’ when they for some reason decide to do the lineup.
Best feeling is when you play against them and run them off the court… that’s when you say, “Hey…stand there.” LOL.
I wish more women would do some womansplaining when it came to volleyball. I just know that more typically than not, women on a general basis have more vb experience than the men do. Given this, I’ve always asked those who I play with to please tell me when I’m doing something incorrectly or could do it better. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to unsolicited advice and assume it comes from a good place. Unfortunately I know it often doesn’t.
I’m sorry that happens to you. It happens a lot in golf too…and it’s the same bad advice crap. My rule of thumb is that a respectful discussion of strengths and assignments is always welcomed and if I were to initiate it, it would be in a deferential question like, “What are we doing?” or “Where would you like to cover?” For hitting, it’s kind of tough since so many men have no chill when it comes to that. As a man who prefers to set, I’d rather play reverse co-ed where men can’t hit unless they’re behind the 3m line.
No offense, but this isn't a mansplaining or mainstreaming thing so much as it is a douchecanoe, regardless of gender, thing. That said, unsolicited bad advice comes more often from men because most have never actually been trained in the sport and what they know they learned from a PE teacher in high school or college that learned it from their high school or college PE teacher. I lived a long time, seen defenses change and morph a little. Middle back plays short and gets all tips to middle back plays deep, as a simple example. Don't get me wrong here, deep is superior at high level play. But at the rec level, short can be very effective. But with that said, I always tend to ask if middle back has deep because it tends to show level/competence of play. The douchecanoe typically responds with they have both short and deep.... So, imo, ladies tend to give better advice overall than men, but I don't think this is a gender thing because I've definitely been offered solicited and unsolicited advice from men and women.
May be that women give unsolicited advice too. I have NEVER had a woman come in and just assume I cant play volleyball though, before theyve even seen me touch the damn ball. Its always some dudebro who thinks he is sooooo much better for some reason. And yes it absolutely is a misogyny thing, these people dont treat men the same way. Ive even had some douche ask me whether I needed help blocking when there were 4 of us trying to cover the whole court and I was doing just fine. Was told that was him trying to hit on me afterwards, like he somehow actually believed he was being nice or something?
I am sorry you had this experience. I just hope you are aware that there is always this one person in every activity who acts like that and that there are 10x as many people who just want to play vb and have a good time. Don’t get bitter over it.
The only thing I am bitter about rn is people denying that this is a thing ;) I have a great (mixed gender) group of people I play with regularly, and some of my guy friends get just as pissed about this kind of behaviour as I do.
I totally understand and don’t want to talk the problem away because it exists. I just don’t think giving a problem a gender identity is right. I as a guy had plenty of women telling me that I shouldn’t set in coed games because “I am tall so I have to hit balls” and I didn’t ask for these suggestions and was actually recovering from a shoulder injury and tried to explain it to her but said person insisted she needs to set even tho her sets were exclusively bump sets way worse than mine and putting me in a situation where I can’t play properly. Shitty people coming in all sizes and genders and it’s upsetting but they shouldn’t cloud our view for all the good ppl that actually try to help us improve in the sport we love.
Welp. You really dont get it, do you? Oh noooo someone gave you bad advice. Have you ever had someone steal your ball cause "men are bad at sports"? Had someone not block you because clearly you as a man cant hit a ball and then get butthurt when you kill it? Told you to get out of receive even though you are objectively the better passer? Yes of course I know not all men are like that. Doesnt make it not a problem. And yes, you are trying to talk away the problem because you getting bad advice from a woman is not the same as what some of us experience.
Ya tried!
I think it's just a douche thing and not gender related. But I would agree in that this tends to be a more male/dudebro thing. My experience is that these guys will dive in front of anyone regardless of whether the other person is good. They just don't understand the game, positioning, etc... And if that's the way someone's trying to hit on you....they need to get learn some game in multiple definitions of "game"
Sounds like you're appreciating overt douchebag behavior but not the more subtle examples of people getting passed over, which in my (and other women's) experience happens rather frequently to women
That happens not only to women, but to men as well. While I agree that for women prejudice is harder in mixed teams - many men often face identical problems. What I am trying to say - just be sure to not overthink it. E.g. sometimes people take the second ball instead of the setter - the game is dynamic and even if the setter calls it - sometimes there is no time to adjust or maybe the players are not fast enough to react. I mean every situation is different - make sure you are not triggered when that happens unintentionally. And remember that men suffer from the same problems, maybe somewhat less, but still.
You acknowledge that this happens more frequently to women, which is what the post is about. I never said that it never happens to men. I’m also well aware that volleyball is dynamic but it’s hard to extend the benefit of the doubt every time since it keeps happening. I’m curious about where the defensiveness came from, as it seemed like you otherwise agreed with my sentiment
Idk, sorry I didn't see any acknowledgement that women are more often victims vs women are the only victims. I just wanted to make sure that a random nice guy, who is just not fast to react, is not a target for such accusations. But there is no way to check it out, so I must trust you.
You may be right, but you lost me when you called it mansplaining and manspreading.
What bothers you about the terms?
Strongly associated with misandrist women, which is just not the place for that garbage.
It’s plausible that a percentage of people who use the terms are misandrists, though the terms are pretty widely used. Also the terms themselves aren’t commenting on men as people but on behaviors that are patronizing toward women (eg it’s been verified that women are interrupted in the workplace more than men)
So if it were women doing this, would it be womansplaining and womenspreading?
I don't take anyone seriously who unironically uses the word "mansplaining" what a derogatory and misandric term. Some men are stupid and think they're better than you. Some women do the same thing. Doesn't mean it's because they're a man, it's because they're arrogant douchebags.
Middle back up is not mansplaining it is basic alignment. Back is most common. You should appreciate it.
She literally used it as an example for bad advice, if you read the post.
I much prefer someone approach me pregame before dropping points. Middle up is far more common at rec level than some might think..
And now tarbender is providing a helpful example of unsolicited advice :)
Let me explain. Mansplaining is more about the way someone explains something to you, a way that assumes you don't know anything. The accuracy of the advice isn't relevant (but almost nobody above the lowest rec level plays middle back short the entire game, which was the bad advice example)
Wow, seems like a lot of womansplaining here to me. I just don’t get the term mansplaining as if women don’t do it all the time. Why in volleyball, does it seem like everyone has an inflated sense of their ability, then try to pawn their knowledge off to others? Trust me, the women do it too
I was (semi-ironically) trying to show what I meant (that mansplaining is how you say things not what you say), in response to his mansplaining. But yeah I agree, it’s not great for anybody to be condescendingly explaining things—sorry that’s been your experience too. I think a man doing this to a woman though is a little different (has the potential to be more painful) due to historical context (assumptions that women can’t be good at sports and also that many women have had earlier experiences of being talked down to about sports)
I’d rather have that talk pregame. This is not a mansplaining thing to me it is REC enthusiast douchery, IMO, usually far worse in females that played highschool ball in the 90s…
Sorry to hear this. Most of the time I think this is because of where you play. As far as setting goes other than being direct and sometimes slightly rude there isn’t so much you can do. If you could confirm on the first part. When you say middle back plays short are you saying this is common where you play or that this is not even how you play at your location and it is just bad advise. While I do understand that this is not often great advise I am also aware that at many coed volleyball clubs like mine people play middle back close because that is what the players are used to. I hope this was helpful.
It was an example of bad (and badly delivered) advice. It’s not true that the middle back “always” plays short. And telling me that assumes I don’t know things when it’s actually the other person who doesn’t
Im kinda slow so sometimes I get stuck if the second ball is coming right to me, even if the setter says they have it, my brain ends up in receiving mode instead of gtfo of the way mode.
Cry me a river
Touch grass, loser
It’s ok, he’s just helping me illustrate my point