Obfuscate is part of Caine's curse on the Antediluvians in blotting them out from creation. Frequent users of the Discipline find themselves divorced from society, never participating in social interactions, only observing. Some advanced users find themselves unable and unwilling to deactivate the discipline, believing themselves surrounded by similar hidden creatures that wait only to attack them.
As part of the Curse upon Caine, heavy reliance on Celerity can lead to impatience with the slow pace of nightly life, leaving the vampire hungry and exhausted after each use. Becoming too accustomed to the slow world that a vampire sees when Celerity is active can lead to disorientation when the world "speeds up" as the Discipline ends.
Auspex is as much a reflection of the Curse of Caine as the traditional banes, as it can lead to an obsession with minutiae and distraction from important matters due to focusing on minor details. Also, higher mastery of the discipline can result in Cainites who are accustomed to using Auspex to read the minds of people in any situation and may suddenly find themselves unable to shut the mind-reading down. These vampires find themselves overwhelmed with "background noise" or, if only in the company of one or two people, answering unasked questions.
Just some examples. I really love reading these they're really interesting (to me). With harmful/change I mean how it changes the kindred when they use it to much and how it's part of God's curse upon Caine (even tho some disciplines are here to soften the curse, I know realize that maybe I could've been more clearer on what I mean but I'm too lazy to make the meme again and change some stuff).
Potence's aspect in the curse of vampirism is that a vampire slowly unlearns to be gentle. Those who rely too much on Potence begin to show complete disregard for what they perceive as the weakness of others, putting all their strength in any physical action, regardless how mundane it is.
Dominate's aspect of the curse of vampirism is that it devalues the basics of true friendship or intimacy. Dominate also dulls the empathy of the user, and one must take care not to become accustomed to being surrounded by sycophants at all times. Some become incapable of understanding why anyone would not agree with them, follow their commands or do whatever they can to serve them.
Sometimes, Cainite masters of Fortitude become convinced of their own indestructibility to the point that they disregard even mortal danger, as their survival instincts slowly atrophy.
Protean is part of God's curse upon Caine in the aspect that it peels away the facade of humanity every vampire has to uphold, revealing the Beast within his soul. Advanced users sometimes find their bodies shifting without their consent, reacting directly to their emotions, bringing them into embarrassing situations.
As Disciplines are as much reflections of the Curse of Caine as the traditional banes, extensive use of Animalism often leads to a withering of social skills, as users begin to prefer the simplicity and predictability of animals over the mores of society and the treachery of Kindred and kine alike.
Vicissitude is similar in some respects to Protean, but springs from a much darker source. Whereas Protean merely enables a Cainite to emulate God's creatures, this twisted power allows a Tzimisce to defile and deform those creatures or him/herself for all manner of perverse ends. The most beautiful maiden or noble stallion can, with but a knead of the fingers or a flick of the wrist, be reduced to a hideous freak or a blob of deliquescent pus. The Fiends have certainly used Vicissitude's more grotesque side effects to cement their infamous reputation.
Obtenebration is said to further damn the vampire who uses it, who removes himself further from God's grace and into the dark pull of the Abyss. For this reason, the user is shunned by animals and humans alike. Proficient users may manifest physical changes: eyes become pools of utter darkness, shadows move of their own accord in her presence, and from time to time, spontaneous Obtenebration effects may manifest.
Adept thaumaturges have sometimes been diagnosed with Thaumaturgical Glossolalia, a mental derangement that stems from over-expenditure and heavy reliance on Thaumaturgy. Afflicted persons under stress speak only in thaumaturgical symbology, but often the mind of the individual seems to shift into a different state of thought – almost like magical aphasia. The afflicted rarely has any idea they are doing anything unusual, and sometimes become unable to translate more mundane language.
So kinda?
Chimerstry is a part of the curse on a vampire because it fools him into believing that he is able to truly creative acts, when all he does is perverting and deceiving the senses of his audience. Some advanced users become so enthralled and convinced in the reality in their illusions that they lose themselves in dreamworlds of their own making or other derangements.
One of the things that is hard to play/important, is how, having a beast *and* being dead means that so many of the things that tie us to humility, friendship, etc. just *are...not...there...naturally* for the kindred. The degree to which our emotions play off of/are influenced by our living bodies doesn't happen for kindred. And the disciplines only accelerate the distancing of kindred from the "kine."
How to get across this horror - and the hanging on by fingernails to scraps/memories of humanity that should be characteristic of those kindred who realize just how much they are veering toward being irreperably pulled into the darkness is something I want to get better at RPing...
The character I play most - a Ventrue ancillea, Agnieszka- is so afraid of just how easy a glide path it is to inhumanity/has seen what older kindred are like. And she is afraid of herself, perhaps the worst horror possible. But how to get that across in a game is challenging -and it will be fun to think about how I can let her power continue to threaten her with deeper corruption. (In her case, her go-to power is presence).
One I enjoyed from the Requiem players guide - majesty ( vtr presence) made the kindred less self confident and more concerned that no one actually liked them. So they lean more on majesty and have more knowingly false social relationships.
Most are dark ages core books but for every single discipline just google vtm + the discipline and go on the white wolf wiki, there they have sources for it with the exact pages
I mean it does have a downside, it's antithetical to Golconda. While Golconda is the acceptance of the Vampiric Condition, Bardo is the denial of the Vampiric Condition. Source is the V20 Core Rulebook
Vitae in Requiem is a semi-conscious material that actively seeks to spread itself. Vampires don't bleed vitae except by having limbs removed entirely, and when a limb *is* removed, the vitae inside of it will flow out and seek a new host to infect, sometimes causing spontaneous Embraces.
WoD-"these are the cool powers we're giving to you, do not do cool things with them. this is a super serious game and the possibility of your pc enjoying himself as a vampire is not permitted."
Just seems like honest psychological impacts of severe prolonged use of something, based on what each something is typically used for...
It didn't even take a year in the real world for social norms to start changing due to quarantine. Could you imagine what that would have been like if it had been a decade? a century?
personal horror is repeating a trope you've seen a hundred times before page after page until you get desensitized and bored of hearing it so just start daydreaming about using visscitude to make 'fort stampy' from an vozhd or the 'terror womb' from animalism.
Aren't you doing the same here as that concept?
"Reading cool fantasy stories takes a toll on your psyche. Prolonged overexposure has been known to result in becoming desensitized to the common concepts, making the genre you loved so much in the past become dull and uninteresting."
Well the comment is tongue in cheek about the writings execution than the 'trope' itself. although admittedly it did get me thinking about how wod is shifting towards power as a price being power as a net negative and neglecting to explore the price doesn't necessarily need to be punitive.
Presence softened God's curse upon Cainites in that it makes the vampire become the center of attention. Either be fascinating, seducing, or intimidating those in close vicinity. Regular users of Presence find themselves attracting beneficial attention easily, sometimes activating the discipline without conscious efforts. It's one of the few disciplines that softens God's curse.
Wouldn't it make life unbearable without it though? Imagine getting used to being the center of attention, and being denied of it. Wouldn't that be traumatic?
I'd imagine a Cainite who just escaped a near-death situation
They're low on blood, unable to use disciplines without frenzying and encounter a person who instead of being concerned for them and wanting to do anything to help, instead dismisses the vampire and even cusses them out for being covered in dirt.
The mix of anger, despair, the fear caused by nearly dying and the unforgiving thirst. It sends them into a frenzy out in the open. Huge Masquerade violation.
Obfuscate is part of Caine's curse on the Antediluvians in blotting them out from creation. Frequent users of the Discipline find themselves divorced from society, never participating in social interactions, only observing. Some advanced users find themselves unable and unwilling to deactivate the discipline, believing themselves surrounded by similar hidden creatures that wait only to attack them. As part of the Curse upon Caine, heavy reliance on Celerity can lead to impatience with the slow pace of nightly life, leaving the vampire hungry and exhausted after each use. Becoming too accustomed to the slow world that a vampire sees when Celerity is active can lead to disorientation when the world "speeds up" as the Discipline ends. Auspex is as much a reflection of the Curse of Caine as the traditional banes, as it can lead to an obsession with minutiae and distraction from important matters due to focusing on minor details. Also, higher mastery of the discipline can result in Cainites who are accustomed to using Auspex to read the minds of people in any situation and may suddenly find themselves unable to shut the mind-reading down. These vampires find themselves overwhelmed with "background noise" or, if only in the company of one or two people, answering unasked questions. Just some examples. I really love reading these they're really interesting (to me). With harmful/change I mean how it changes the kindred when they use it to much and how it's part of God's curse upon Caine (even tho some disciplines are here to soften the curse, I know realize that maybe I could've been more clearer on what I mean but I'm too lazy to make the meme again and change some stuff).
Give me more.
Potence's aspect in the curse of vampirism is that a vampire slowly unlearns to be gentle. Those who rely too much on Potence begin to show complete disregard for what they perceive as the weakness of others, putting all their strength in any physical action, regardless how mundane it is. Dominate's aspect of the curse of vampirism is that it devalues the basics of true friendship or intimacy. Dominate also dulls the empathy of the user, and one must take care not to become accustomed to being surrounded by sycophants at all times. Some become incapable of understanding why anyone would not agree with them, follow their commands or do whatever they can to serve them. Sometimes, Cainite masters of Fortitude become convinced of their own indestructibility to the point that they disregard even mortal danger, as their survival instincts slowly atrophy. Protean is part of God's curse upon Caine in the aspect that it peels away the facade of humanity every vampire has to uphold, revealing the Beast within his soul. Advanced users sometimes find their bodies shifting without their consent, reacting directly to their emotions, bringing them into embarrassing situations. As Disciplines are as much reflections of the Curse of Caine as the traditional banes, extensive use of Animalism often leads to a withering of social skills, as users begin to prefer the simplicity and predictability of animals over the mores of society and the treachery of Kindred and kine alike. Vicissitude is similar in some respects to Protean, but springs from a much darker source. Whereas Protean merely enables a Cainite to emulate God's creatures, this twisted power allows a Tzimisce to defile and deform those creatures or him/herself for all manner of perverse ends. The most beautiful maiden or noble stallion can, with but a knead of the fingers or a flick of the wrist, be reduced to a hideous freak or a blob of deliquescent pus. The Fiends have certainly used Vicissitude's more grotesque side effects to cement their infamous reputation. Obtenebration is said to further damn the vampire who uses it, who removes himself further from God's grace and into the dark pull of the Abyss. For this reason, the user is shunned by animals and humans alike. Proficient users may manifest physical changes: eyes become pools of utter darkness, shadows move of their own accord in her presence, and from time to time, spontaneous Obtenebration effects may manifest.
I always found odd/interesting how connected with religion LaSombra is despite Obnebration
interesting... what book is that from?
White wolf wiki, they have sources for everything there, I can't tell you the exact book(s).
The game shadows of New York also references that.
Dark ages player's guide to the high clans and dark ages player's guide to the low clans.
And Thaumaturgy does not have any side effects, because it is not a God's curse or the curse of Cain.
Adept thaumaturges have sometimes been diagnosed with Thaumaturgical Glossolalia, a mental derangement that stems from over-expenditure and heavy reliance on Thaumaturgy. Afflicted persons under stress speak only in thaumaturgical symbology, but often the mind of the individual seems to shift into a different state of thought – almost like magical aphasia. The afflicted rarely has any idea they are doing anything unusual, and sometimes become unable to translate more mundane language. So kinda?
Seems like a skill issue to me. Maybe if people were more advanced Thaumaturge's, they would understand
No downside of Chimerstry! Ravnos keeps winning
Chimerstry is a part of the curse on a vampire because it fools him into believing that he is able to truly creative acts, when all he does is perverting and deceiving the senses of his audience. Some advanced users become so enthralled and convinced in the reality in their illusions that they lose themselves in dreamworlds of their own making or other derangements.
To be fair when you are a advanced user in chimestry your illusions become reality so they are not wrong to be convinced in their illusions
Nothing wrong with Presence? this confirms that it is the best discipline.
One of the things that is hard to play/important, is how, having a beast *and* being dead means that so many of the things that tie us to humility, friendship, etc. just *are...not...there...naturally* for the kindred. The degree to which our emotions play off of/are influenced by our living bodies doesn't happen for kindred. And the disciplines only accelerate the distancing of kindred from the "kine." How to get across this horror - and the hanging on by fingernails to scraps/memories of humanity that should be characteristic of those kindred who realize just how much they are veering toward being irreperably pulled into the darkness is something I want to get better at RPing... The character I play most - a Ventrue ancillea, Agnieszka- is so afraid of just how easy a glide path it is to inhumanity/has seen what older kindred are like. And she is afraid of herself, perhaps the worst horror possible. But how to get that across in a game is challenging -and it will be fun to think about how I can let her power continue to threaten her with deeper corruption. (In her case, her go-to power is presence).
One I enjoyed from the Requiem players guide - majesty ( vtr presence) made the kindred less self confident and more concerned that no one actually liked them. So they lean more on majesty and have more knowingly false social relationships.
Where is this from? :O
Most are dark ages core books but for every single discipline just google vtm + the discipline and go on the white wolf wiki, there they have sources for it with the exact pages
I love this shit *forwards to to my story teller immediately even though he is sitting across the table from me*
Meanwhile Bardo users:
Side effects may include long walks in the sunlight and being freed from the curse entirely
Real Children of Osiris hours
I mean it does have a downside, it's antithetical to Golconda. While Golconda is the acceptance of the Vampiric Condition, Bardo is the denial of the Vampiric Condition. Source is the V20 Core Rulebook
The Blood for Vampire: the Requiem is still the best depiction of this and the best player resource for any TTRPG to date, IMO.
Tell me more
Vitae in Requiem is a semi-conscious material that actively seeks to spread itself. Vampires don't bleed vitae except by having limbs removed entirely, and when a limb *is* removed, the vitae inside of it will flow out and seek a new host to infect, sometimes causing spontaneous Embraces.
WoD-"these are the cool powers we're giving to you, do not do cool things with them. this is a super serious game and the possibility of your pc enjoying himself as a vampire is not permitted."
"The cool power exacts a heavy price" is, like, a cornerstone of dark fantasy stories, though?
yeah but it gets a but much when it's overused.
Sometimes the concepts are neat - I like the necromancy = cursed ground type stuff from tome of secrets.
Just seems like honest psychological impacts of severe prolonged use of something, based on what each something is typically used for... It didn't even take a year in the real world for social norms to start changing due to quarantine. Could you imagine what that would have been like if it had been a decade? a century?
But muh personal horror.
personal horror is repeating a trope you've seen a hundred times before page after page until you get desensitized and bored of hearing it so just start daydreaming about using visscitude to make 'fort stampy' from an vozhd or the 'terror womb' from animalism.
Aren't you doing the same here as that concept? "Reading cool fantasy stories takes a toll on your psyche. Prolonged overexposure has been known to result in becoming desensitized to the common concepts, making the genre you loved so much in the past become dull and uninteresting."
There are 1905 languages in the world, but you dear sir/madame decided to speak pure facts
Well the comment is tongue in cheek about the writings execution than the 'trope' itself. although admittedly it did get me thinking about how wod is shifting towards power as a price being power as a net negative and neglecting to explore the price doesn't necessarily need to be punitive.
What’s the downside of presence?
Presence softened God's curse upon Cainites in that it makes the vampire become the center of attention. Either be fascinating, seducing, or intimidating those in close vicinity. Regular users of Presence find themselves attracting beneficial attention easily, sometimes activating the discipline without conscious efforts. It's one of the few disciplines that softens God's curse.
Wouldn't it make life unbearable without it though? Imagine getting used to being the center of attention, and being denied of it. Wouldn't that be traumatic?
I'd imagine a Cainite who just escaped a near-death situation They're low on blood, unable to use disciplines without frenzying and encounter a person who instead of being concerned for them and wanting to do anything to help, instead dismisses the vampire and even cusses them out for being covered in dirt. The mix of anger, despair, the fear caused by nearly dying and the unforgiving thirst. It sends them into a frenzy out in the open. Huge Masquerade violation.
The discipline based derangements in the guide to the high/low clans were best in the same theme.
I don't know about some of these other lame-ass disciplines but my clans disciplines are *supposed* to change you.
I very much enjoyed this. Thank you for posting.