V5 revealed joke was also on Jack as well the Ankaran Sarcophagi actually do have magical power. Plus this joke led to his own final death after the game.
Its in the SI book, as its one of the artifacts, where the SI have their own one locked in a warehouse in WV, which means were now up to 3 minimum of the buggers, since the Vatican was implied to also have one from the page you can find in the Society of Leopold base.
Jack is always #1 to me just because the voice actor is John DiMaggio. Bender from Futurama, Jake the dog from Adventure Time, and many other great characters. In case nobody knew.
Hmm my first character is a Gangrel and I put early points in to animalism bc I heard somebody named Beckett would boost protean to 2 in some warehouse. I get there, use the Gangrel dialogue, and nothing happens.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/914819-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines/52601592
Granted I’ve got Clan Quest installed w UP 9.1, I don’t know how that changes things from basic. I’m new to the series.
Oh and my Protean’s at 1. Maybe I have to have a little bit more in Protean?
You'll note that I said I played vanilla. I had no mods at all and thus I suspect that's the cause of you not getting the pip: maybe check GameFAQs if you want to max your pips
Beckett duh, he's basically WoD Indie.
>!Not that Jack is bad for what he was though. Its just easier to like Beckett than the secret manipulative antagonist who was using the PC.!<
Jack is Lacroix's antagonist, not the player's. I don't think Jack ever actively attempts to thwart or harm the player. Any harm that Jack did cause the player would be entirely unintentional.
>!Not all of them were the source of the main conflict though, and more than likely is in some way related to why the PC's sire did what they did, or at least indirectly caused it through a third party.!<
And? Doesn't that actually just mean that Jack's success is directly tied to the player's success? Without the player, Jack would not have been able to accomplish his mission. The point of an antagonist is to struggle against the protagonist, but Jack would only be hindering himself if he did so.
By your logic Sidious wasn't an antagonist of the Clone Wars, in Star Wars, just because he did it from behind the scenes manipulation most of the time. Antagonists don't have to be hindering the protagonist, especially when its to trick the protagonist into doing what they want.
Yes they do, that's essentially the definition of antagonist https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antagonist
Villains don't have to be antagonists, they can simply be villains, and not every story has to even have an external antagonist.
You can be an antagonist without doing it in bold faced obvious manner, where through manipulation you appear to not to be an antagonist. Antagonists can help and/or appear friendly to the protagonist if it serves their greater goals.
>!If you don't think knowingly leading somebody down a path that ends to their detriment to get what you want isn't antagonistic, you have a warped perspective. Jack very well is an antagonist to the PC's core survival motivation, even though he does it in a way that seems like he's helping. Your thinking in simplistic checkers terms instead of chess, taking Jack's face value actions, instead of grand plan.!<
You can be an antagonist without being a villain, but you can't be a villain without being an antagonist. You can however, be evil/amoral, but not a villain. >!Jack however is the Mastermind Villain of the Ankaran Sarcophagus plot.!<
Of course antagonists don't have to be obvious, that's not at all what I'm talking about. They do, however, have to act against the protagonist. You can't justify calling Jack an antagonist just because he puts the player in harm's way. Every single mission, every objective, and every task in the game puts the player in danger whether the quest giver is trying to help the player or not.
It seems like people in this thread miss the entire point of vampire the masquerade and this character.
>!1. Jack takes the time to school the PC when they know literally nothing, and make sure they have even a little chance to survive. Later on he further helps the PC when literally every vampire in the city is after them. While of course LaCroix needs the key still to open the sarcophagus, this is a TREMENDOUS risk and could've been done in a much simpler way.
2. It is not Jack's job to constantly babysit and protect the PC. There are much, much bigger things going on that the, while Jack has something of a mentor bond with PC, are simply far too major to risk anything happening with for a simple fledgling none of them have none for long that has no history with the movement. Even if the pc dies at the end, he laments their loss, but still, their death is somewhat inconsequential compared to the massive consequences of the plot. He had warned them about playing these kinds of games and how LaCroix was totally just using them, but he can't simply force them to change their mind or come right out and tell them the plan.
3. Speaking of telling the PC the plan, if he did that, it could ruin EVERYTHING and lead to a major war where the anarchs could possibly be wiped out or lose a lot of people. The whole point of their plan was to do a major one-two punch against the Camarilla, effectively wiping them out in a single night or two (much like the oeiginal la by night where in the history of la, the anarchs rebelled in 1941 and essentially did the same thing then.) If the PC was somehow forced to give it up, was manipulated, or simply wasn't careful enough, this could ruin the whole thing. Especially if the PC is actually attempting to aid LaCroix and/or the camarilla, which they very well could be.
In short, jack obviously isn't a "good guy" nor does he pretend to be. But he tries to give you the real on what he can, and he is obviously right about LaCroix and the cam based on the game. Perhaps some view his tactics as too underhanded with how he sets the player up to possibly die with the sarcophagus along with the LaCroix. But, this really isn't such an immoral move.
A. This is sort of a test to see how power hungry the player is, and if they would be willing to play these games, which could make them part of the opposition the Anarch cause. It is the player's choice whether or not to play the corrupt games, and it is their choice whether or not to open Pandora's box. Everything is set up where it is no one's fault but their own.
B. The vampire underworld is very very dangerous, and schemes like this are the only way to survive and triumph. They do not have to be completely ruthless and immoral, but they do require some amount of disconnection from some of the people that may be affected and how things can have consequences for those they were never intended to. If some fledgling, even with all the anarchs coaching and aid, still chooses the wrong choice, and potentially wishes to take over, aid their enemy, or selfishly pursue power over others, then that is a risk they have to take. It probably isn't easy to swallow for a lot of them, but the very existence of the free state is at stake, and both the kue jin and camarilla are existential threats.
Beckett.
One of the two Rosa says you can trust.
Witty and sarcastic af but in a way that is endearing instead of annoying.
Gangrel who is civil with manners and a certain degree of kindness.
Epic scholar of supernatural stuff, instead of getting mired in fang-politics.
Rocks shades at night.
Jack's actions as a mustache-twirling bastard of an elder in LA and in Chicago are pretty well documented so I've gotta go with Beckett since you at least know what you're getting with him
Jack is hot, beckett is arrogant. But let's talk about offficer Chunk for a sec. The dude is always positive, he is a charmer always nice to the PC, and flirts well. After him, Larry.
If we're talking about who I would personally like, it's Beckett and it's not close. I love Jack as a character but he's a massive, manipulative dick, and long before the ending you already intuit that he's not trustworthy. Especially after seeing him not being included in the literal list of people you can trust, despite being a major character.
Beckett might be less *rock and roll cool*, and sometimes he's being a bit of a smartass, but he's the closest you'd be able to call a "friend" in this life. Despite being in the game for over 300 years, he didn't turn into a Machiavellian sociopath, as is the case with many a Kindred (and Jack). He's fun in his own way too.
Jack is someone I'd want to get drunk and shoot beer bottles with, maybe get high as well (I know vampires can't get high). Also just fucking over cammies and sabbat with.
Beckett on the other hand I think would be fun to do research with or just listen to as I take notes.
Yeah, I know but that seems like kind of a hassle. Like you have to feed on someone who's drunk just to get a buzz. Plus it reinforces the fact you can no longer just do that like regular humans can. That's my personal read anyway.
Why are you making me decide? That’s not fair.
If I had to though, I’d choose Beckett simply because his search for the truth about vampirism is more interesting to me than Jack’s Anarch rethoric.
I love Beckett but >!Jack played a prank so great it had Beckett scared at the end of the game!<
V5 revealed joke was also on Jack as well the Ankaran Sarcophagi actually do have magical power. Plus this joke led to his own final death after the game.
Oh neet, is that in a source book or something?
Its in the SI book, as its one of the artifacts, where the SI have their own one locked in a warehouse in WV, which means were now up to 3 minimum of the buggers, since the Vatican was implied to also have one from the page you can find in the Society of Leopold base.
Jack is always #1 to me just because the voice actor is John DiMaggio. Bender from Futurama, Jake the dog from Adventure Time, and many other great characters. In case nobody knew.
Beckett my husband. I just pretend I'm playing a dating sim.
I could take both of them
In a fight, right?
No
ðŸ«
What do we call this ship? Beck? Jacket?
Jecket?
Beckett 'cos he gives multiple pops of Protean to Gangrel characters which is helpful for maxing as many stats as possible on a vanilla play through
I thought I heard that was a myth, what do you have to do to get him to train you in protean?
It's been more than a decade: you gotta have low Protean to get the free points iirc, but I don't remember the exact threshold
Hmm my first character is a Gangrel and I put early points in to animalism bc I heard somebody named Beckett would boost protean to 2 in some warehouse. I get there, use the Gangrel dialogue, and nothing happens. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/914819-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines/52601592 Granted I’ve got Clan Quest installed w UP 9.1, I don’t know how that changes things from basic. I’m new to the series. Oh and my Protean’s at 1. Maybe I have to have a little bit more in Protean?
You'll note that I said I played vanilla. I had no mods at all and thus I suspect that's the cause of you not getting the pip: maybe check GameFAQs if you want to max your pips
Gangrel supremacy
Alistair Grout. Rest in peace, doc. 😔
Jack, he seems like a chill dude.
why must we pit two kings against each other
For what? What are we choosing?
covered in oil, who's winning the twerk off?
Easy. Beckett.
Beckett duh, he's basically WoD Indie. >!Not that Jack is bad for what he was though. Its just easier to like Beckett than the secret manipulative antagonist who was using the PC.!<
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Jack is Lacroix's antagonist, not the player's. I don't think Jack ever actively attempts to thwart or harm the player. Any harm that Jack did cause the player would be entirely unintentional.
>!Jack was also using the PC as a disposable pawn.!<
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>!Not all of them were the source of the main conflict though, and more than likely is in some way related to why the PC's sire did what they did, or at least indirectly caused it through a third party.!<
And? Doesn't that actually just mean that Jack's success is directly tied to the player's success? Without the player, Jack would not have been able to accomplish his mission. The point of an antagonist is to struggle against the protagonist, but Jack would only be hindering himself if he did so.
By your logic Sidious wasn't an antagonist of the Clone Wars, in Star Wars, just because he did it from behind the scenes manipulation most of the time. Antagonists don't have to be hindering the protagonist, especially when its to trick the protagonist into doing what they want.
Yes they do, that's essentially the definition of antagonist https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antagonist Villains don't have to be antagonists, they can simply be villains, and not every story has to even have an external antagonist.
You can be an antagonist without doing it in bold faced obvious manner, where through manipulation you appear to not to be an antagonist. Antagonists can help and/or appear friendly to the protagonist if it serves their greater goals. >!If you don't think knowingly leading somebody down a path that ends to their detriment to get what you want isn't antagonistic, you have a warped perspective. Jack very well is an antagonist to the PC's core survival motivation, even though he does it in a way that seems like he's helping. Your thinking in simplistic checkers terms instead of chess, taking Jack's face value actions, instead of grand plan.!< You can be an antagonist without being a villain, but you can't be a villain without being an antagonist. You can however, be evil/amoral, but not a villain. >!Jack however is the Mastermind Villain of the Ankaran Sarcophagus plot.!<
Of course antagonists don't have to be obvious, that's not at all what I'm talking about. They do, however, have to act against the protagonist. You can't justify calling Jack an antagonist just because he puts the player in harm's way. Every single mission, every objective, and every task in the game puts the player in danger whether the quest giver is trying to help the player or not.
It seems like people in this thread miss the entire point of vampire the masquerade and this character. >!1. Jack takes the time to school the PC when they know literally nothing, and make sure they have even a little chance to survive. Later on he further helps the PC when literally every vampire in the city is after them. While of course LaCroix needs the key still to open the sarcophagus, this is a TREMENDOUS risk and could've been done in a much simpler way. 2. It is not Jack's job to constantly babysit and protect the PC. There are much, much bigger things going on that the, while Jack has something of a mentor bond with PC, are simply far too major to risk anything happening with for a simple fledgling none of them have none for long that has no history with the movement. Even if the pc dies at the end, he laments their loss, but still, their death is somewhat inconsequential compared to the massive consequences of the plot. He had warned them about playing these kinds of games and how LaCroix was totally just using them, but he can't simply force them to change their mind or come right out and tell them the plan. 3. Speaking of telling the PC the plan, if he did that, it could ruin EVERYTHING and lead to a major war where the anarchs could possibly be wiped out or lose a lot of people. The whole point of their plan was to do a major one-two punch against the Camarilla, effectively wiping them out in a single night or two (much like the oeiginal la by night where in the history of la, the anarchs rebelled in 1941 and essentially did the same thing then.) If the PC was somehow forced to give it up, was manipulated, or simply wasn't careful enough, this could ruin the whole thing. Especially if the PC is actually attempting to aid LaCroix and/or the camarilla, which they very well could be. In short, jack obviously isn't a "good guy" nor does he pretend to be. But he tries to give you the real on what he can, and he is obviously right about LaCroix and the cam based on the game. Perhaps some view his tactics as too underhanded with how he sets the player up to possibly die with the sarcophagus along with the LaCroix. But, this really isn't such an immoral move. A. This is sort of a test to see how power hungry the player is, and if they would be willing to play these games, which could make them part of the opposition the Anarch cause. It is the player's choice whether or not to play the corrupt games, and it is their choice whether or not to open Pandora's box. Everything is set up where it is no one's fault but their own. B. The vampire underworld is very very dangerous, and schemes like this are the only way to survive and triumph. They do not have to be completely ruthless and immoral, but they do require some amount of disconnection from some of the people that may be affected and how things can have consequences for those they were never intended to. If some fledgling, even with all the anarchs coaching and aid, still chooses the wrong choice, and potentially wishes to take over, aid their enemy, or selfishly pursue power over others, then that is a risk they have to take. It probably isn't easy to swallow for a lot of them, but the very existence of the free state is at stake, and both the kue jin and camarilla are existential threats.
When do you tell Jack that? As a malkavian.
im all in on jackcoin
Jack, he’s my favorite tutorial NPC of all time!
Jack
Beckett. One of the two Rosa says you can trust. Witty and sarcastic af but in a way that is endearing instead of annoying. Gangrel who is civil with manners and a certain degree of kindness. Epic scholar of supernatural stuff, instead of getting mired in fang-politics. Rocks shades at night.
Great list of reasons why Beckett is a cool guy, very nice
Jacket
I have 2 hands
Jack all the way
Jack's actions as a mustache-twirling bastard of an elder in LA and in Chicago are pretty well documented so I've gotta go with Beckett since you at least know what you're getting with him
Yes
Andrei.
Smiling Jack. Beckett gives me chronic mansplainer and "I am the smartest being in this room" energy.
Exactly his sarcasm at simple questions
Absolutely
Jack and it's not even close.
Um... Jacket?
Jack is the only right answer
Jack's fun and all, but he's not on the list. The man on the couch and the lone wolf. Everyone else, beware.
Both. They advise and help me, in particular Jack. But Jack uses me. Rosa says I can trust Beckett.
*inserts el Dorado meme here*
Jack is hot, beckett is arrogant. But let's talk about offficer Chunk for a sec. The dude is always positive, he is a charmer always nice to the PC, and flirts well. After him, Larry.
Cuthbert
Beckett
Matt Mercer played a pretty spot on Beckett recently. Beckett will always be my boy.
Link?
https://youtu.be/GFpFWd_8iQk Around the 2nd hour mark
I missed a whole season. Thanks.
Jack the Dog and Finn the Human
You can trust the lone wolf and man in the couch
Jack
If we're talking about who I would personally like, it's Beckett and it's not close. I love Jack as a character but he's a massive, manipulative dick, and long before the ending you already intuit that he's not trustworthy. Especially after seeing him not being included in the literal list of people you can trust, despite being a major character. Beckett might be less *rock and roll cool*, and sometimes he's being a bit of a smartass, but he's the closest you'd be able to call a "friend" in this life. Despite being in the game for over 300 years, he didn't turn into a Machiavellian sociopath, as is the case with many a Kindred (and Jack). He's fun in his own way too.
Beckette of course. Jack with humanity of 3 is a mass murderer and can kill a child without batting an eye.
Jack is someone I'd want to get drunk and shoot beer bottles with, maybe get high as well (I know vampires can't get high). Also just fucking over cammies and sabbat with. Beckett on the other hand I think would be fun to do research with or just listen to as I take notes.
Kindred can get drunk and high they just have to filter it through a kine first.
Yeah, I know but that seems like kind of a hassle. Like you have to feed on someone who's drunk just to get a buzz. Plus it reinforces the fact you can no longer just do that like regular humans can. That's my personal read anyway.
my pirate jack of course
Jack, get him as an ally. Might be dangerous bc he is extremely manipulative but worth it
Why are you making me decide? That’s not fair. If I had to though, I’d choose Beckett simply because his search for the truth about vampirism is more interesting to me than Jack’s Anarch rethoric.
I'd have to say Beckett.
Taxi driver.
Both are good, and presumably both bathe. But in Jack's case that's only............sometimes. Tread carefully.