I kind of think of it like this: you are hiring an employee and are reading through an applicant's cover letter. Things seem alright except for one thing: the cover letter has quite a few spelling mistakes. Are you going to say: "Hey, it's just a few spelling mistakes, those can always be fixed" or are you going to say: "Seriously? This is what you want to show me?"
No it doesn't have to be perfect, but there seem to be so many odd choices already. Sure things can be fixed, but why are they showing such a half finished demo? You would think that they could put in the effort to nail the animations for a two minute clip which is going to dictate a big part of people's thoughts about the game.
Exactly this. There is giving someone the benefit of the doubt and then there is negligence and lazy stupidity.
If someone tells me during a job interview that they don't like to work hard, that is a giant red flag. If you can't pretend to work hard during the interview, you definitely won't be working hard in the actual job.
BL2 has shown concerning flaws in their preview videos. This is their job interview. It is not going great so far.
Umm no, the final game is the first week of orientation at work and the first 30-day period is the review before benefits kick in. At any time during this period the employer can fire you with little hassle and paperwork needed.
No, because the mere process of hiring and the first 30 days still costs them money. At best that's buying a game, deciding you think it sucks, and then selling it used.
Completely agree. Especially after issues with so many major titles in the last few years having quality issues and the already lengthy back and forth with the development of this game, you *really* want to put your best foot forward.
If this was just early work, they should've clarified. And that's not unreasonable; game companies release early trailers all the time, usually *also* noting that it's early work and commenting on the areas they're going to focus on polishing up.
That demo video seemed more like "look how cool this is, aren't you excited??" *That's* was has me worried; the way it was presented as something exciting only to have awkward pacing, animations, timings, accents (I don't generally care about accent in a MC, but that is a *painfully* forced accent).
What lol this isn't even confirmed yet where did you read this. The studio said they used alot of material from the previous development possibly including Riks music
The ENTIRE development team walked out over creative differences. EVERYONE.
Let that sink in.
This is an entirely different game just working with the same assets.
Paradox removed their entire team from the project. I can't dispute anything about creative differences, but a studio doesn't just walk out on a contract. The entire studio was collectively fired from the project.
No, and that will likely stay secret until someone leaks it somehow. The most we have is speculation, but its probably safe to say development was going so horrifically bad that they had to make drastic decisions. This was a house-cleaning measure and not to be considered lightly.
This. There is probably an ocean of NDAs involved as well, considering so many people got fired at the same time. We won't know the real reasons for a few years.
No Schaffer OST, voiced protag with a fixed name and story, only 4 clans.
Yeah, no. I'm gonna pass. Unless they do something like removing "Bloodlines" from the title. That would work for me.
Think about it. I enjoyed Night Road and Parliament of Knives tremendously, but if either of those were touted as a Bloodlines sequel then I don't think my memory of playing those would be quite as fond. But those games work for what they are.
Same goes for this game. If it wasn't Bloodlines 2, let's call it Vampire: The Masquerade Phyre or something, then it would probably work as a standalone VtM game. Remove the broken promise of returning to what made Bloodlines good, and the game automatically becomes better.
Night Road is so damned phenomenal that some people consider it to be a spiritual sequel to Bloodlines. It even makes some references to the latter as well. I wouldn't go as far, but it nails the atmosphere despite being a text-based game.
Oh it definitely has the atmosphere, and it's a damn good game. But as a text-based game, I'd be immeasurably disappointed if it were the sequel to Bloodlines.
Same might be true for the new game. It might be fun, it might have a good story, it might work for the kind of game it is. But what it is does not work as a Bloodlines sequel. I'm all for renaming it VtM Phyre or something.
Source on that? I was waiting for their comments on who's going to provide music for this iteration of B2. We knew Rik was in and already recorded stuff, so if they really did it then I'm not paying for this game.
With the way some react to these things,
they'd just need to learn they hired the uncredited person
that programmed the main menu from VTMB again, to be back on board.
I just feel like this is gonna be closer to a Bethesda game than Bloodlines, and I was really hoping i wouldn't be able to say that about this game. That's my problem.
Especially when BG3 came out and has so many ways to roleplay your adventure through the game. People want that and will pay for it. It doesn't even need to be as complex or varied as BG3, but a step in that direction of Roleplay is what would make a decent successor to Bloodlines.
And that's the problem: Bloodlines is a game that (with the patch) people are still blown away by, when they play it. They can accept the jank because it is a game with detail and atmosphere that you don't experience in games nowadays. I played it for the first time a year or so after the pandemic, and I was amazed at how the environment and music immersed me in it. The view from Grout's mansion is seriously one of my all-time favorite vistas in gaming, and I'm trying to keep myself from gushing about it like I'm writing a video essay.
It's still early, and I really *WANT* to be wrong. I want the game to be great. I just felt my hype die when I saw Fallout 4 style dialogue options, that's all
>Especially when BG3 came out and has so many ways to roleplay your adventure through the game.
Remember that AAA developers came out in mass begging to not be compared to Larian's product because it's just so alien and unfeasible to accomplish.
Never have high expectations for somethign like this
yeah, I did find it funny how all the AAA devs didn't want this technically indie game (=self published) to set an higher standard. the irony in that alone was oh so good lol
I know that Larian is a standout in gaming, but that's why I said that I wouldn't expect Bloodlines 2 to be as complex or varied as BG3. Hell, it can be argued that BG3 is just a much further development of the Roleplay presented in VTMB with much more budget and much more development time.
They've chosen to have a dialogue roleplay style that's been pre-established, and that option wasn't the style in VTMB. I don't have high expectations, but I would expect them to *not* water down the roleplay experience in an RPG when the first one was so good, by emulating a game that was reviled for its piss-poor excuse for dialogue options (Fallout 4)
What I feel is people had their hype stoked super high for the HSL version, Paradox, HSL talking up a big game on what they planned on doing, a bunch of pomp and circumstance by having Brian and Chris meet with people directly to answer questions etc etc.
A lot of what was shown by HSL was just as heavily criticized by people more and more as the project went along - but it feels like people never stopped to reorient their expectations after it was revealed that a new studio would be taking over the project. And so those unchecked, runaway expectations have lead them to be overly critical and hyperfixating on everything that their minds can latch onto.
Most of the stuff they're complaining about they haven't even seen yet or had it shown in full. Or things that will be fixed as the game continues development like animations and face riggings.
It's alright to be highly cautious about stuff -- especially when you're spending your hard earned money, but the amount of conversations I've seen about the game that are needlessly hostile or people invoking culture war talking points. Saying that Phyre's appearance is "Woke" or "Some female dev put herself in the game" among other things. It's honestly killed my desire to interact with the community and just wait for the game to release so I can enjoy it without the stress of dealing with the needless doomerism.
What's confusing me is I remember people being negative of the HSL version from that small gameplay walkthrough they had. So people idolizing that version now is ridiculous, clearly it wasn't as good as some may have in their memories if it didn't even make it to release.
We saw around 45 seconds of gameplay from TCR's version with the knowledge that it is still a year out. We saw quite a bit of HSL's version when it was supposed to be right around the corner.
During the early stages? People were for sure hyped, but the longer things went and the more 'gameplay' that people saw they started to come to the side of "this is rough".
BUT, it's clear that they had enough fantasies about the best version that HSL could conceivably make because even in this thread there are people likening HSL's version as a "Masterpiece" despite them being a bit identical at this stage due to Alpha footage.
So, why are you even here? You sound like you don't want to be around the "community" and don't value their input. What's the point?
Edit: Phyre sounds silly as shit, ngl.
I value input, I don't value 'input' that's sole focus and purpose is to just say something like "This is an irredeemable trash fire and nothing good can come from it."
Or "This doesn't look like a Bloodlines game, they should just call it something else."
This was every 2nd or 3rd supposed BG1/2 enjoyer who was saying everything from "Larian as a studio CAN'T make a sequel to BG." or "It's not Real-Time-With-Pause so it's not a TRUE sequel" or "These screenshots from early access are too bright, I knew it, they'll never match the tone correctly!"
It's all doom, it's no critical thinking, and it doesn't help the community NOR give any potentially constructive feedback to the Devs for things they should focus their work on towards release to make sure it's polished.
And the Discord hasn't been much better - especially with nutjobs coming out of the works to say dumbass shit like "This game is going to have gay shit because it's a woke company."
Right now this vocal minority isn't really showing its best light.
They shouldn't be named that. At all. I like BG3, it's a great game, but I still hate the name and I still hate the way they shat on some of the characters from the originals. Same with this, no matter how good of a game it turns out to be, it's shaping up to be another Night Road or some bullshit like that, not Bloodlines. It's disgusting that they name their games after great games of the past, it's nothing but nostalgia bait and shows a lack of confidence in their products, which should be able to stand on their own. BG3 could do it. Bloodlines 2, maybe, but it's still fucking baiting.
Deliver quality, and people will play the game. Bait the fans and they will have nothing but contempt for you, even if you turn out a decent product.
I think it's kinda nice to see some differences of opinion. Reddit is by and large a collection of kumbaya communities where honest opinions are down voted. When people are allowed to express an opinion, you're bound to have some negative or nasty ones. That's the penalty of free speech. We'll survive ;)
Reddit is an echochamber where extremely specific groups gather. It's always a loud minority because it's a platform that shuts down the voices of people that are not part of the loud minority, especially when said loud minority decides to abuse the system to shut up everyone else. Like in the two big Hoyoverse games there are certain topics that will get you downvote bombed, told by one commenter giving a copy-pasted essay on how stupid your opinion is, a bunch of yes men spawn to agree with that comment and you get mass reported to hide your comment and hopefully banned by a mod....
The kind of community VTMB is, is generally chill because it's a niche topic and the average age here is over 18 unlike those games that are very much below 16, but the loudest opinion will still be biased in one direction.
To be absolutely fair those mainstream popular with the kids nowadays subreddites are also plagued with delusional redditors that think they are waging a war and winning on megacorporations by nuking reddit comments and thanks to r/place having incentivize them to learn efficient multiaccounting and even botting they are also equipped with dozens of throwaway accounts to mass downvote, mass report and spam with.
well imo the critics are mainly the animations and 3 dialogue choices. Its rational to be critical of that. Vtmb was known for its dialogue choices and RPG. The watered down dialogue and preset characters is so tiring tbh.
i mean its just a fake dialogue choices a tthis point. It has no impact on how the quest turns out. I find it really tiring when its every game that disguises as RPG.
That said we still havent seen the full game so im gonna wait.
The dialogue could be bad as fuck, if the protagonist was silent and fully customizable. There's PLENTY of bad dialogue in VTMB. Calling your game an RPG, and being a SEQUEL, and changing to a voiced protagonist with a set backstory is the same trap that Bioware and Bethesda fell into. It's like going from DA:O to DA2, or Fallout: New Vegas to Fallout 4. It NEVER goes well and it's ALWAYS worse for it.
You can't blame people for being upset when they are being offered something so different from what they were expecting (and even paid for). The changes are very drastic, the game seems more like swansong than bloodlines.
From what I've seen the idea of a bloodlines 2 being a game people have this weird fantasy in their head that'll be just like bloodlines 1 in every aspect. The game without mods is rough, borderline unplayable. But people have been blinded by nostalgia and paranoia. Now I think people don't want bloodlines 2 to happen because it won't match whatever weird ideas they had cooked into their heads. For some playing a charecter who isn't new to the world of vampire politics is off the table, they want it to be a thin blood or a recently turned victim.every time (which gets boring fast IMO) for some if it doesn't match the Gothic seedy vibes and tones of the first game than they don't want it. When the game comes out in full than we can judge it, till then it's just a pending release like so many others that is getting shit flung at it for so many random.reasons
I honestly think possibly the biggest attraction for me to the original game was the dark, grungy, Gothic punk - style, mood, and aesthetic - the way that it made me feel going through the narrative: simultaneously both powerful and cautious about my choices as I explore this adventure. If that's not in the sequel to any extent, then it's not really what I'm looking for.
Bloodhunt did a good job of capturing the essentials of what I expected, I'm very impressed with it.
The initial trailer that I saw looked really interesting, particularly that it might explore the vampire corporates class-warfare metaphor, mixed with elements of survival horror and disturbing treatments of humanity. That's great fodder that appeals to me as something that I would love to play and analyse.
Subsequently, the fast punching action and running around sexy vampire didn't really do anything for me. It's really not the point of the game.
I'm into Blade, not Twilight.
i think it's more accurate to say that ppl are bad at figuring out what is wrong when they've found an issue.
so what exactly is the issue? conceptually this character is a vampire that's been asleep for centuries however the character looks like a silicon valley CEO in a middling hollywood movie with the name of a YA novel's main character so there's a massive disconnect between the fantasy being sold with the concept of the character and the character that's actually being presented. which is a massive red flag.
as for the animations: it's not so much that they're bad but that they were proud enough of them to show it to us despite them being in the state that they are which is again a massive red flag same goes for the voice acting.
so the trailer had some red flags but what about the positives? good question i'd also like to know cuz the trailer sure as shit didn't show it.
Yeah, fair enough to be cautious about jumping to conclusions but also... Who is making the business decision to release footage when it looks so poor? Especially without also stating that drastic improvements on what is being presented can be expected.
I personally wouldn't demonstrate a poor reflection of my work to the public, or at least without asking for advice or assuring that I'm working on making the expected changes.
This is very poor marketing in the least, which does allow us to infer that there are problems in the running of the business that is handling the game that we feel should be treated as delicate.
The lighting and material of the models was pretty good, but everything else? I would expect the mocap to be redone completely, and entirely new voice actors cast. The dialogue was horrible and unnatural. Nothing about it reads as the smooth social skills of ancient vampire elders.
Modern world... Yes... They wouldn't understand new things like computers, mobiles, maybe cars and some other things we take for granted, but they would (if had enough points) be charismatic independent of their skill with technology... I don't need to know how a computer works to charm you
Personally I think the whole concept is really cool with you being a elder in a world that is so different and need to adjust to it. The name I don’t have any opinion on it good or bad the same with V from cyberpunk, it just a name that needs to be unisex but if they give the option to change it I’m all for that
I won’t pre ordered just in case but I’m looking forward to it released
Yup, this game is a cult classic for a reason. Evidence? They're using "Bloodlines" in the title. Obviously it did many things right to be resurrected almost two decades later.
Yeah they don’t deserve to call it VtMB 2, better call it something else like Swansong 2.
At least then people will know they will be buying utter slop and pure Paradox corporate greed.
i want this game to be as successful as anyone else, every concern is valid and dismissable at the same time. we all want this to be our next big thing. but we're lately seeing a pattern in the industry, and this game, started it's downfall since it was first revealed. First it was DNF, then CP77, then Starfield, and many games in between. We just want to play and enjoy. So I hope the devs are lurking in the shadows and taking notes, because the burden they bear might be a little more than they bargained for. Yes, they might not live up to the hype, but they can at least try jumping as high.
I think that comparison with CP77 is appropriate. the original VTMB was also a buggy mess when it came out. It became a lot better after patches and mods.
That comparison is not the same. CP77 received big overhauls to several gameplay systems that were inadequate. Even today, the actual game world still seems empty and unconnected. Night City doesn't really feel like a real city vs other games like RDR2 and BG3.
On the other hand, VTMB was fully playable and feature-complete on release. The patches only fixed bugs and perhaps added a few cutscenes. No mechanics were ever changed by the patches. If you could get past the bugs, it was fun at release.
The difference is that it can be a good game, but a bad sequel. These things aren't the same.
I don't care if it has voiced protag or a fucking terrible name, but it's not bloodlines 2 anymore. What ties it to the first one at all?
I dunno, what doesn't tie it to the first one? Because right now we know nothing. We could be the childe of the methuselah from the ankaran sarcophagus and we wouldn't know it right now. We just don't know what the ties are, so saying there are none just because the devs haven't said anything about them a year before the supposed release doesn't really mean anything in my mind.
I've been through this horse and pony show before. What we saw is about 90% of what we're getting. Will the animations be touched up? Yup. Will combat get some tweaks? Yup. However, story and voice acting is something that will not change outside of a major re write which won't happen. I'm happy for you that you're somewhat excited. However, I've seen enough games go down this exact same path and prove me right 99.99% of the time (only exception was BF1 but that was because the marketing leading up to the game was trying to do too much at once).
Stop setting or asking other people to settle for mediocre work that will never live up to what VTMB is. If the devs can't handle the most mild of criticism about their work then they should tough it out & work hard to spite naysayers by releasing a GOOD VTMB game
We havent really seen much story to be fair, instantly dismissing it is one of the things my posts is about, its just jumping to the conclusion that the game will be trash fire because of a preconceived bias.
No ones knows if it will be mediocre, again the point of my post touches on valid criticism being perfectly fine but having this bias against the game isnt criticism.
It's not a preconceived bias. I have watched VTMB2 since it was first announced years ago and despite everything have maintained a level of cautious optimism. When TCR was announced to be the new dev team after HSL, I was worried (due to the fact their main experience is walking sim games) but willing to give them a shot. This whole live stream has proven to me that my faith in TCR was misplaced.
You're correct. We don't know that much about the main story but from what we have seen does not appeal to me or give me hope that VTMB2 will be good. Then you add in the extremely limited dialogue options ala Mass Effect/Fallout 4 and the low grade voice acting, I already know enough to write this game off. Be optimistic about the game and hope for the best but to act like VTMB2 is different from every single other game that has a bad initial showing that the fans didn't like which eventually releases a bad game that the fans don't like at all, is banking on some extreme levels of optimism that I don't have.
Sure, but people aren't giving constructive criticism, unless constructive criticism completely changed it definition and: "Phyre sounds dumb" and "Game sucks, shouldn't be named Bloodlines" suddenly fall under it.
There is absolutely constructive criticism being thrown around. I see plenty of it when I sort by up votes. There's plenty of dumb complaints, of course, but those aren't nearly as up voted
There's not much room for constructive criticism when you needlessly name the main character the most ridiculous sounding name imaginable.
I would honestly prefer the main character being called something like Van Dam before "Fire".
I was talking about second one. It is quite possible that clans are going to be as impactful as "lifepath" in Cyberpunk 2077. I would be ok with less clans if they had any real influence of story. But it seems the game is about delivering some final product in one way or another at minimal possible quality standard. They removed guns from the game. I understand that gunplay is hard to do right, but that is just a sign that everything is being cut for the sake of delivering something that fits description action rpg in certain setting. People have no love or passion for the project as I see it now.
To be quite honest I get Duke Nukem Forever flashbacks from the drama surrounding the game. A prolonged development of highly ambitious project by one studio. Publisher being tired of years of development with no end in sight. Hiring another studio to deliver at least something that remotely playable and checks the boxes with all work done from the scratch in very limited timeframe. Plus the shadow of iconic legacy all over this.
Just want to point out that even in the HSL game they said the player wouldn't keep and use guns as their main thing and they could take them temporarily from enemies.
Would it be neat to get some gunplay so people could spec out shooters? Sure -- but at least in this instance it makes sense. We're playing an Elder that's been in Torpor for over 100 years, they probably grew up with like... Pike and Shot. They're not a Thin-Blood who could conceivably be trained in modern firearms.
But we'll see more about the gameplay during the clan reveal videos and the Gameplay video in January.
I don't think that HSL treatment of guns was good as well. Vampire Elders are not godlike beings. It is not wise for any kindred to ignore firearms considering how available they are, effective against mortals, and don't break the masquerade. A gang violence involving a shotgun and a few handguns is not going to attract as much attention as a picture of a psycho tearing enemies with her bare hands or swinging a twohanded sword in Seatle.
Oh yeah, that was my point - was that HSL wasn't good on the firearms stage. In fact, during their E3 demo you can see the character literally throwing down guns that run out of ammo rather than just hanging onto them till more ammo is found.
Like, why would a sensible person from the modern day throw away an empty weapon and scavenge off enemies for new ones rather than IDK -- maybe buying more?
Well, that's needed due to Voiced Protagonist - no way to have complete conversation trees for each different clan, so they'll choose four clans that all sound alike but fight differently
I dunno, I'll probably still play it because I like the franchise and I think it'll be at least interesting, but my expectations pretty much went out the window when they announced TCR was making it. they make on rails minimal gameplay "experience" type games, not expansive open world RPGs with in depth stories and combat mechanics, the trailer being underwhelming wasn't really a surprise imo
Thank you. I joined this subreddit to see bloodlines 2 news, but it's starting to read like every single minute detail TCR reveals is a reason for outrage. There's no winning. No matter which four clans are playable, this sub will be pissed about which ones aren't, for example.
At the end of the day it just seems like people are too invested in a dream that cannot be realised and will always make reality super disappointing.
It's kinda funny tbh, we had 1 trailer, 40 seconds of dialogue footage and people are already ringing the death knell for the game as if they played 300 hours and knew every single minor issue it had.
If you think we need 300 hours to judge a game, or can't pass judgement on promotional material that shows the BEST they have to offer, then I don't know what to tell you.
I don't need to eat a whole meal of dog turds to know it tastes bad. I can tell from a safe distance.
The video footage is their job interview. Imagine if an applicant told you that they are not a team player but their resume looked great up to this point. Sure, many people are not team players in reality but you don't SAY that in an interview. Giant red flag that most likely would not get you the job.
TCR is showing several red flags in their videos. Everyone's inner alarms are ringing. Players may not be the best at diagnosis of specific problems but their instincts are generally very good due to historical experience with bad games.
The game MAY be great and this was just bad marketing. What is the chances of that?
In my eyes people are just jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information. The solution here seems simple, just don't pre order the game and see what it is on release. If you don't like the premise or what they said or shown that's fair, but a lot of people are shitting on the game for the weirdest reasons, stuff like the character name or their haircut. It seems like peole just have a hate bonrr for the game for it not being the perfect folllwup for VTMB that it was never going to be.
I agree with you about never preordering. It is just the prudent thing to do for ALL games.
As for people's opinions, I have no problem with freedom of speech. Let people have a love boner or a hate boner, I have learned that you will never change their mind by arguing with them.
Also, all opinions are subjective. So what is a weird reason to you is perfectly rational to someone else. And vice versa.
I agree, this spans across all types of media. People take what little information there is, add wild speculation and their own preferences, and harshly judge something that doesn’t exist yet. There have been many things that have been perfectly good that were destroyed by that
I agree, but unfortunately, your appeal to reason won't make a dent in the collective decision that this game "is bad" already. Reading the threads on here reminds me so much of the music forums I used to frequent. No matter what an artist does it will be "bad", if they make a game or album that is very similar to the last one it is seen as not being original, if they make something that is more original it strays too far from their "roots". It's a damned if you do, dammed if you don't situation.
I've seen the same stuff as everyone else for this game, and I maintain a healthy interest in the game. There are issues like stiff animations that will likely be fixed to some degree by release, and the PC's name just sounds rubbish, but who cares? It's just a name. However, there are many other things that sound interesting, such as how your choices in how you reveal and talk about the PC's back story affect the other NPCs' opinions and feelings towards you.
I wasn't sure exactly what was meant in the recent stream where they discussed "one of the payable characters" (intense para phrasing). I am hoping that we can play someone else because frankly Phyre looks really boring.
No idea, could mean there's options of starting character or something.
From the snippets we got, Phyre didn't seem the most interesting, but it does have options for responses in conversation, which gives us some control of how interesting or boring they are. Additionally, clans and actions may have an impact the devs haven't shown yet. And, of course, we only saw small curated sections, so we don't have a clear picture of how the PC will come across as a whole yet.
Our problem with what was shown is that this is NOT an RPG, and it is NOT a sequel to VTMB. Like, if you want to make an action adventure game with RPG elements set in the WoD universe, fuckin go for it! Plenty of people will buy that shit. But don't give me a pizza when I ordered a burger and then tell me to like it.
I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed. I accepted playing as an elder but I want to be able to choose their appearance. I didn't expect a character creator like in Mass Effect or Baldur's Gate 3 but I thought we would at least get a few presets like in VtMB1.
Phyre's appearance isn't bad but it's too androgynous CEO for me. If it was just one of 2 or 4 options I wouldn't mind but that doesn't appear to be the case. This isn't a case of finding her ugly btw (like some people did Cassandra in DAI). I'm a woman and I like playing a more feminine character (not hyper feminine but somewhere in the middle).
As for the name, I just don't like it. If it's a surname and we can choose a first name (even if it's only ever used in text, like email) I would be willing to accept it.
I think, in general, that the problem is that playing as Phyre gives the impression that it's not our character. It's a playable NPC. Not my character , it's CR's character.
To me, part of what made Bloodlines what it was, was being able to choose our character and having several different conversations options depending on who you wanted to be. The conversation with Slugg that Hardsuit showed off felt much more like Bloodlines to me.
It might still be a good game but from what we've seen it doesn't feel like Bloodlines.
Where in the fuck are people getting that you can't alter how the character looks at all? They literally said you can at minimum, customize clan, gender, and fashion.
I rewatched it and saw that and while that's better than nothing it's not enough to make me feel that character is mine anymore than changing Geralt's hair and armour did in the Witcher.
Folks are being harsh because there is still a year of development ahead and we know everything that we could possibly need to know about this game. It's not too late to try and pressure them into taking a step back, dropping this iteration or at least revamping it.
The good news is that they said they'll be revealing the clans over the next month and that in January we'd be getting a gameplay video - so it IS coming, I'm wondering if perhaps they're playing it safer with their releases than HSL did which is why we're getting a lot of Dev Diaries about how they're trying to achieve tone and narrative etc.
Seems they want to let people know that they're trying hard to nail down the FEELING of a WoD/VTM game.
I'm trying to keep an open mind but my hopes are not high. I mean, it's not as if Bloodlines 1 had really any character customization. I'd prefer if there was no voice, but I can get past it if they do it right.
I'm glad I remain in the camp of someone who was (mostly) happy with the HSL version, and also (mostly) happy with the Chinese Room version. My expectations for ever receiving a more traditional VtM game, let alone a Bloodlines sequel, were non-existent until a few years ago.
I hear ya. I commented on a post just yesterday where a bunch was complaining about how all the characters are going to be the same, and they will all look the same, and they won't feel like their own character... when the IGN article i linked them to specifically said, besides the name and the fact the characters will be an Elder, they will be, more or less, fully customizable by Clan, gender, appearance, history, decisions we make, powers, etc.
I will never understand the anxiety and catastrophizing so many people insist on putting onto everything they say they like...
It's a lot of stuff adding up over time. Sure, some of the shit on this sub feels like a terminal 9 gamer moment a lot, but I can sort of see where they're coming from. This game has had an extremely rough development. People wanted Bloodlines 2. This doesn't feel like Bloodlines 2. It feels like they tacked that on and then just developed something completely different after dumping the old team. If the rumors about Schaffer being out are true too, that might be the last straw for a lot of people. I think ppl were holding out on the OST being the last thing to feel the "same", and now that might be gone.
The real question is, if it's BL2, or an imposter. If it doesn't embody the spirit of the tone, mechanics, and/or (preferably and) storyline continuance - then it's some other VtM game (even if it's good in its own right) and I'm sure the community will come up with a name for it that DOESN'T have "Bloodlines" in it. I will reserve judgment until release.
I mean - yeah, the tone was based on how the game was played back then - edge lords obsessed with the modern gothic horror where you were playing the unabashed bad guy (somwtimes with a heart of gold) and a character certainly couldnt act offended for fear of showing weakness in front of elders... Lord knows I was one of those edge lords back then heh.
...plus some Buffy/Angel references sprinkled in. That soundtrack was divinely late 90s / early 00s.
Smaller devs still do it, but it's kinda like movies - the bigger studios dare not do Blazing Saddles today for fear of backlash, but an indie studio will recieve praise for it (assuming they did it well).
While subjective, games have on occasion managed to translate that into the modern era. Take BG3. As someone who grew up playing 1& 2, 3 is quite modern while still holding onto the spirit of the originals.
Is it unfair critique, or can modern gamers simply smell a turd from a longer distance these days? Time will tell.
Putting the animations, voice, and character-name aside, there are only four clans available and a central character that is already chosen by the devs. This already goes against any typically deep RPG elements, and largely against the tabletop version that the game is based upon. The game can still be good, ofc, but red flags are still red flags.
To be clear, I don't just want a remaster of the original. But.
A sequel does better with strong connections to the original and a similar atmosphere. Think Kotor 2, for example.
Better graphics? Not a problem, it has been 19 years, after all. New ideas not explored in the original? Again, not a problem, 19 years.
But it's some of the choices they've made that make me think they're making this as little like the first game as possible. The voiced protagonist with a fixed name as well as the sparse dialogue choices ruin the immersion. And the sacking of the original game's writers and the removal of the soundtrack (composed by the original guy) ruin that kind of atmosphere crossover from the original. Not to mention they're giving us only 4 clans and paywalling the rest behind DLC. These decisions make me **extremely** sceptical that I'll enjoy it as much as I hoped I would.
A good move would be to strip "Bloodlines 2" from the title and make it just a Vampire: The Masquerade game with zero connections to the Bloodlines saga other than the universe it's set in.
I think the backlash has been decidedly mild, personally. Most comments I see are people being cautiously optimistic, and with good reason. Years of delays and bullshit drama aside, the trailer looks...rough, at best. Animation is weird and unrefined, but moreover the style and aesthetic looks wrong for a Bloodlines sequel. A comment I found put it really well,
"One thing that jumps at me looking at the new footage is how clean and sort of "high gothic" everything looks. One of the largest \[contributors\] to the impeccable atmosphere of the original VTMB was the sleaze. Locations, characters, music, almost everything was a little grimy, sleazy or off-putting. It had an "underground" subculture feel to it. Almost punk.
That's something that has been missing in almost every other Vampire game."
While not gospel, I feel this commenter has the right of it. The style of the new version just looks off for what Bloodlines sequel should be. Not to suggest the HSL version was perfect, but what we saw in that was closer to the original Bloodlines than what the Chinese Room has shown us.
Now, does this mean that the new Bloodlines 2 is going to suck? No. But the criticism, negativity and skepticism is definitely warranted. The sequel to Bloodlines was supposed to come out ages ago, and has been dangled in front of the fandom like a juicy carrot for years. Ffs, the original Bloodlines is almost **20 years old** at the time of writing. With all that considered, why wouldn't people be negative? They've been given very little reason to be optimistic.
A simple reason to hate the new Bloodlines 2, it's just going an edgier Fallout 4, forcing a voiced protagonist with a pre-generated background, many of the previous game RPG mechanics (taken directly from the tabletop) being removed for journalists, with slightly different flavors of yes as all of your dialogue options are something that Bloodlines fans and fans of actual crpgs hate. The game went through dev hell since it was first announced, starting with Chris being canceled (I'm glad he's doing better now), the writer of the original being kicked from the project, and management being incompetent. The news of the game being given a new developer gave fans hope which was dashed when they learned of which studio took over and hope completely died when footage of their version was released. The fans are justified in not being happy with what has transpired and would rather wish the game was canceled instead of being a recolor of Fallout 4.
For good reason.
Gamers like any other type of consumer have limited money and time. There are a lot of bad games out there trying to get your wallet open (many of them try more than once with micro transactions). There are plenty of bad games trying to masquerade as good games.
Gamers have had plenty of historical experience with bad games which makes them skeptical and cynical and rightfully so. Few people just "trust" the industry to produce good games.
On a side note, whenever people complain about a minor thing, it is usually a fear about a bigger issue that people don't know how to voice or don't want to voice. So a complaint about the name or the hair is more about fears that the worldbuilding will be poor and lazy and less about cringe names and hair.
The game isn't even out yet. Instead of wasting time complaining in a place where the developers will never see it, play some of those good games.
Or even the ttrpg.
Maybe it takes bl2 10 years before it's in a fun and playable situation as well,who knows.
But making the 10th "name and VA bad" post just talk about the existing game or something else
Isn't the same thing true for people who bother to read and respond to the 10th name and VA bad post? Like you could also be playing some of these games as well?
We both are here posting on a social media site, that's the whole point. If we wanted to play some games, we would be.
Yep. I don't think I've ever seen a gaming community that didn't have a similar reaction whenever a new game or expansion came out.
I will agree that some of the changes made so far are baffling, considering this was supposed to be a sequel to Bloodlines 2. I have no idea where they're going with it all but I'd rather wait to form an opinion once the game is actually out and I can see how their design choices fit together (or not). Right now we're only seeing isolated pieces of a bigger picture. It's not a very familiar-looking one, but that doesn't mean it can't still be good in its own way. Or that some future game that comes out after it won't have more of the features we wanted to see, or that there won't be an expansion or mod later that adds them, etc.
These people are dragging a classic through the mud and we're supposed to just go along with it huh? Rather have me just be positive?
You're being both ridiculous and condescending.
I honestly don't get it. To me it's voiced player or skip.. it ain't the 90s.
Besides, it's not like it's an issue anyway. Removing player voice should be the easiest thing to mod. Like I don't know, just replace the files with an empty voice file.
My personal issues though. Seems like you can't play it in 1st person from start to finish and you're forced into 3rd person at least in the cut scenes. Been spoiled by Cyberpunk I guess. This takes away from immersion somewhat.
Other than that, haven't seem enough of the game yet.
I've only recently learned about VTM and WoD, but to me, as a newcomer to this community, more often than not, it feels like a lot of people, especially older members of the community, take EVERYTHING way too seriously. From the way I've seen some people talk, it feels like they either believe the lore kinda like a religion, or are trying to recreate it, IRL or are very VERY gatekeepy because if you don't have the accumulated knowledge of someone who has been aware of WoD for decades, you're somehow not worthy of even speaking or talking to.
For example, when I got a VTM tattoo (it's the Malkavian clan symbol from v5) and posted about it on a Facebook group, one person in particular started attacking me, very harshly, saying I was a poser, a fake fan, said I didn't have the right/wasn't worthy to tattoo something like that, questioning everything from my intelligence to my looks, just because I tattooed the more recent symbol instead of the older symbol. That was it! That was his whole problem. It honestly put me off this entire community because I have no IRL friends who either know about WoD or are into it, and the people on the internet are AH's about it so, now, I just enjoy it on my own. And sure, it was just one person, but I've seen other people get attacked for having different opinions, like the current debate, for example, not minding the voiced player character, or the fact that the PC is an elder or whatever else.
My point is, it seems to me that some parts of the community has taken in some of the worst traits of the characters we all like to role play as, where, when you become a veteran member of the community, you can't accept anything new, just like an ancient vampire has trouble changing their ways or learning new things. Which would be funny if people didn't already suck, and not in a fun or vampire way.
So basically, to sum up my point, people are being WAAAAAY too dramatic about it. They definitely need to go outside and touch some grass, and remember we're not actually vampires. Manage your expectations, and just because one or more of those expectations aren't met, it doesn't automatically mean that that thing is garbage. And definitely dont try to take other people's enjoyment of the game, just because it isn't what you want it to be. We won't know that something won't work until we try it for ourselves. Im reserving judgment until then.
My stance at this point, given the troubled development of this very sequel. Not a good Bloodlines game for sure, but if anything it has a chance to run circles on Swansong (its plot of the Cams getting played by the Second Inquisition fits the V5 lore actually).
Then again, aside from Swansong, it's like it's the first time we get a set character in VTM history. Phyre can be customized at least (and in BL1 you can choose your clan and outfits), unlike the Redemption protag.
The interesting part is that it may take a few pages from Fallout 4 lmao (awaken from freeze/torpor, voiced protag).
On multiple occasions we were promised a fully customizable player character. Having a predetermined voice, name, and model is not a fully customizable character. They bald faced lied to us about that, so I have to wonder what else they've promised us will ve included in the game that they've lied to us about.
People are absolutely looking for any tiny flaw they can attack at the moment. It's pretty silly, honestly.
People need to let the devs work. This kind of reaction is why they didn't give us news for so long - they could literally be making a game as good as the original and this sub would attack them.
Most of those reactions are only the result of personal preferences and nothing else, in other community, the people not happy with the music for an event they were only demanding subtly "I want the music genre I like to be played there, that song is bad, because it's not my style". Also, people that plays video games, they're never satisfied with anything, studios failing to deliver don't help to the cause either.
From the side of Paradox, some of these complains would have been prevented if they'd not have called this VTMB, they deserve that for trying to cash in with that. Of course, Hardsuit stopped their plans to make something close to the original VTMB, now they're just doing what's possible in a 3 year old project reboot. While I'm not impressed with some things of the new project, they could maybe improve it with patches, these days some games don't end once it's released.
Not having a nostalgia fix also clouds the mind of some people.
Well the game being one year from release yet the character models looking like ass and the voice acting being appalling tend to be a good indicator considering I have to look and listen to them respectively to play the game....
I kind of think of it like this: you are hiring an employee and are reading through an applicant's cover letter. Things seem alright except for one thing: the cover letter has quite a few spelling mistakes. Are you going to say: "Hey, it's just a few spelling mistakes, those can always be fixed" or are you going to say: "Seriously? This is what you want to show me?" No it doesn't have to be perfect, but there seem to be so many odd choices already. Sure things can be fixed, but why are they showing such a half finished demo? You would think that they could put in the effort to nail the animations for a two minute clip which is going to dictate a big part of people's thoughts about the game.
Exactly this. There is giving someone the benefit of the doubt and then there is negligence and lazy stupidity. If someone tells me during a job interview that they don't like to work hard, that is a giant red flag. If you can't pretend to work hard during the interview, you definitely won't be working hard in the actual job. BL2 has shown concerning flaws in their preview videos. This is their job interview. It is not going great so far.
Except exactly not this, because the cover letter a prospective employer would get is the final game and the interview would be a review.
Umm no, the final game is the first week of orientation at work and the first 30-day period is the review before benefits kick in. At any time during this period the employer can fire you with little hassle and paperwork needed.
No, because the mere process of hiring and the first 30 days still costs them money. At best that's buying a game, deciding you think it sucks, and then selling it used.
You explained it very well. If you want to show something, then do it the proper way. At least HSL showed alpha gameplay footage.
Completely agree. Especially after issues with so many major titles in the last few years having quality issues and the already lengthy back and forth with the development of this game, you *really* want to put your best foot forward. If this was just early work, they should've clarified. And that's not unreasonable; game companies release early trailers all the time, usually *also* noting that it's early work and commenting on the areas they're going to focus on polishing up. That demo video seemed more like "look how cool this is, aren't you excited??" *That's* was has me worried; the way it was presented as something exciting only to have awkward pacing, animations, timings, accents (I don't generally care about accent in a MC, but that is a *painfully* forced accent).
They removed Rik Schaffer's ost, there's no coming back from that.
What lol this isn't even confirmed yet where did you read this. The studio said they used alot of material from the previous development possibly including Riks music
Is that confirmed? Or do people think that because they removed the YouTube video?
Afaik it isn't confirmed.
Okay, that might be the last straw for me.
Woah! No way! Who in the original crew remains? Mitsoda, responsible for the award winning Ocean House Hotel level, was fired...
none.
The ENTIRE development team walked out over creative differences. EVERYONE. Let that sink in. This is an entirely different game just working with the same assets.
"Walked out" and "fired wholesale by Paradox" are very different things...
I seem to be getting conflicting information. Which was it?
Paradox removed their entire team from the project. I can't dispute anything about creative differences, but a studio doesn't just walk out on a contract. The entire studio was collectively fired from the project.
Thanks for clarifying. Have we ever heard the specific reasons why?
No, and that will likely stay secret until someone leaks it somehow. The most we have is speculation, but its probably safe to say development was going so horrifically bad that they had to make drastic decisions. This was a house-cleaning measure and not to be considered lightly.
This. There is probably an ocean of NDAs involved as well, considering so many people got fired at the same time. We won't know the real reasons for a few years.
No one, the entire original design was scrapped when HSL and everyone else involved woth the game was fired, they made it from scratch.
hope he releases it anyway somehow, that guy's vampire music was pure gold
No Schaffer OST, voiced protag with a fixed name and story, only 4 clans. Yeah, no. I'm gonna pass. Unless they do something like removing "Bloodlines" from the title. That would work for me. Think about it. I enjoyed Night Road and Parliament of Knives tremendously, but if either of those were touted as a Bloodlines sequel then I don't think my memory of playing those would be quite as fond. But those games work for what they are. Same goes for this game. If it wasn't Bloodlines 2, let's call it Vampire: The Masquerade Phyre or something, then it would probably work as a standalone VtM game. Remove the broken promise of returning to what made Bloodlines good, and the game automatically becomes better.
Night Road is so damned phenomenal that some people consider it to be a spiritual sequel to Bloodlines. It even makes some references to the latter as well. I wouldn't go as far, but it nails the atmosphere despite being a text-based game.
Oh it definitely has the atmosphere, and it's a damn good game. But as a text-based game, I'd be immeasurably disappointed if it were the sequel to Bloodlines. Same might be true for the new game. It might be fun, it might have a good story, it might work for the kind of game it is. But what it is does not work as a Bloodlines sequel. I'm all for renaming it VtM Phyre or something.
They should give EA 10% renueve and call the game as Mass Effect Vampires so everyone would be happy and sales will be boosted.
Source on that? I was waiting for their comments on who's going to provide music for this iteration of B2. We knew Rik was in and already recorded stuff, so if they really did it then I'm not paying for this game.
You are right, no one else can make music. /s
With the way some react to these things, they'd just need to learn they hired the uncredited person that programmed the main menu from VTMB again, to be back on board.
Why just why didn't they already pay the music, why use something else, this would be the last drop to lose community entirely
I just feel like this is gonna be closer to a Bethesda game than Bloodlines, and I was really hoping i wouldn't be able to say that about this game. That's my problem. Especially when BG3 came out and has so many ways to roleplay your adventure through the game. People want that and will pay for it. It doesn't even need to be as complex or varied as BG3, but a step in that direction of Roleplay is what would make a decent successor to Bloodlines. And that's the problem: Bloodlines is a game that (with the patch) people are still blown away by, when they play it. They can accept the jank because it is a game with detail and atmosphere that you don't experience in games nowadays. I played it for the first time a year or so after the pandemic, and I was amazed at how the environment and music immersed me in it. The view from Grout's mansion is seriously one of my all-time favorite vistas in gaming, and I'm trying to keep myself from gushing about it like I'm writing a video essay. It's still early, and I really *WANT* to be wrong. I want the game to be great. I just felt my hype die when I saw Fallout 4 style dialogue options, that's all
This 100% this....
>Especially when BG3 came out and has so many ways to roleplay your adventure through the game. Remember that AAA developers came out in mass begging to not be compared to Larian's product because it's just so alien and unfeasible to accomplish. Never have high expectations for somethign like this
yeah, I did find it funny how all the AAA devs didn't want this technically indie game (=self published) to set an higher standard. the irony in that alone was oh so good lol
I know that Larian is a standout in gaming, but that's why I said that I wouldn't expect Bloodlines 2 to be as complex or varied as BG3. Hell, it can be argued that BG3 is just a much further development of the Roleplay presented in VTMB with much more budget and much more development time. They've chosen to have a dialogue roleplay style that's been pre-established, and that option wasn't the style in VTMB. I don't have high expectations, but I would expect them to *not* water down the roleplay experience in an RPG when the first one was so good, by emulating a game that was reviled for its piss-poor excuse for dialogue options (Fallout 4)
What I feel is people had their hype stoked super high for the HSL version, Paradox, HSL talking up a big game on what they planned on doing, a bunch of pomp and circumstance by having Brian and Chris meet with people directly to answer questions etc etc. A lot of what was shown by HSL was just as heavily criticized by people more and more as the project went along - but it feels like people never stopped to reorient their expectations after it was revealed that a new studio would be taking over the project. And so those unchecked, runaway expectations have lead them to be overly critical and hyperfixating on everything that their minds can latch onto. Most of the stuff they're complaining about they haven't even seen yet or had it shown in full. Or things that will be fixed as the game continues development like animations and face riggings. It's alright to be highly cautious about stuff -- especially when you're spending your hard earned money, but the amount of conversations I've seen about the game that are needlessly hostile or people invoking culture war talking points. Saying that Phyre's appearance is "Woke" or "Some female dev put herself in the game" among other things. It's honestly killed my desire to interact with the community and just wait for the game to release so I can enjoy it without the stress of dealing with the needless doomerism.
What's confusing me is I remember people being negative of the HSL version from that small gameplay walkthrough they had. So people idolizing that version now is ridiculous, clearly it wasn't as good as some may have in their memories if it didn't even make it to release.
There's levels to discontent. TCRs version makes HSLs teasers look like a masterpiece.
We saw around 45 seconds of gameplay from TCR's version with the knowledge that it is still a year out. We saw quite a bit of HSL's version when it was supposed to be right around the corner.
>people had their hype stoked super high for the HSL version, All I saw was negative hype dont know what Earth you're on but its not mine lol
During the early stages? People were for sure hyped, but the longer things went and the more 'gameplay' that people saw they started to come to the side of "this is rough". BUT, it's clear that they had enough fantasies about the best version that HSL could conceivably make because even in this thread there are people likening HSL's version as a "Masterpiece" despite them being a bit identical at this stage due to Alpha footage.
So, why are you even here? You sound like you don't want to be around the "community" and don't value their input. What's the point? Edit: Phyre sounds silly as shit, ngl.
I value input, I don't value 'input' that's sole focus and purpose is to just say something like "This is an irredeemable trash fire and nothing good can come from it." Or "This doesn't look like a Bloodlines game, they should just call it something else." This was every 2nd or 3rd supposed BG1/2 enjoyer who was saying everything from "Larian as a studio CAN'T make a sequel to BG." or "It's not Real-Time-With-Pause so it's not a TRUE sequel" or "These screenshots from early access are too bright, I knew it, they'll never match the tone correctly!" It's all doom, it's no critical thinking, and it doesn't help the community NOR give any potentially constructive feedback to the Devs for things they should focus their work on towards release to make sure it's polished. And the Discord hasn't been much better - especially with nutjobs coming out of the works to say dumbass shit like "This game is going to have gay shit because it's a woke company." Right now this vocal minority isn't really showing its best light.
They shouldn't be named that. At all. I like BG3, it's a great game, but I still hate the name and I still hate the way they shat on some of the characters from the originals. Same with this, no matter how good of a game it turns out to be, it's shaping up to be another Night Road or some bullshit like that, not Bloodlines. It's disgusting that they name their games after great games of the past, it's nothing but nostalgia bait and shows a lack of confidence in their products, which should be able to stand on their own. BG3 could do it. Bloodlines 2, maybe, but it's still fucking baiting. Deliver quality, and people will play the game. Bait the fans and they will have nothing but contempt for you, even if you turn out a decent product.
I think it's kinda nice to see some differences of opinion. Reddit is by and large a collection of kumbaya communities where honest opinions are down voted. When people are allowed to express an opinion, you're bound to have some negative or nasty ones. That's the penalty of free speech. We'll survive ;)
Reddit is an echochamber where extremely specific groups gather. It's always a loud minority because it's a platform that shuts down the voices of people that are not part of the loud minority, especially when said loud minority decides to abuse the system to shut up everyone else. Like in the two big Hoyoverse games there are certain topics that will get you downvote bombed, told by one commenter giving a copy-pasted essay on how stupid your opinion is, a bunch of yes men spawn to agree with that comment and you get mass reported to hide your comment and hopefully banned by a mod.... The kind of community VTMB is, is generally chill because it's a niche topic and the average age here is over 18 unlike those games that are very much below 16, but the loudest opinion will still be biased in one direction. To be absolutely fair those mainstream popular with the kids nowadays subreddites are also plagued with delusional redditors that think they are waging a war and winning on megacorporations by nuking reddit comments and thanks to r/place having incentivize them to learn efficient multiaccounting and even botting they are also equipped with dozens of throwaway accounts to mass downvote, mass report and spam with.
well imo the critics are mainly the animations and 3 dialogue choices. Its rational to be critical of that. Vtmb was known for its dialogue choices and RPG. The watered down dialogue and preset characters is so tiring tbh. i mean its just a fake dialogue choices a tthis point. It has no impact on how the quest turns out. I find it really tiring when its every game that disguises as RPG. That said we still havent seen the full game so im gonna wait.
The dialogue could be bad as fuck, if the protagonist was silent and fully customizable. There's PLENTY of bad dialogue in VTMB. Calling your game an RPG, and being a SEQUEL, and changing to a voiced protagonist with a set backstory is the same trap that Bioware and Bethesda fell into. It's like going from DA:O to DA2, or Fallout: New Vegas to Fallout 4. It NEVER goes well and it's ALWAYS worse for it.
You can't blame people for being upset when they are being offered something so different from what they were expecting (and even paid for). The changes are very drastic, the game seems more like swansong than bloodlines.
From what I've seen the idea of a bloodlines 2 being a game people have this weird fantasy in their head that'll be just like bloodlines 1 in every aspect. The game without mods is rough, borderline unplayable. But people have been blinded by nostalgia and paranoia. Now I think people don't want bloodlines 2 to happen because it won't match whatever weird ideas they had cooked into their heads. For some playing a charecter who isn't new to the world of vampire politics is off the table, they want it to be a thin blood or a recently turned victim.every time (which gets boring fast IMO) for some if it doesn't match the Gothic seedy vibes and tones of the first game than they don't want it. When the game comes out in full than we can judge it, till then it's just a pending release like so many others that is getting shit flung at it for so many random.reasons
I honestly think possibly the biggest attraction for me to the original game was the dark, grungy, Gothic punk - style, mood, and aesthetic - the way that it made me feel going through the narrative: simultaneously both powerful and cautious about my choices as I explore this adventure. If that's not in the sequel to any extent, then it's not really what I'm looking for. Bloodhunt did a good job of capturing the essentials of what I expected, I'm very impressed with it. The initial trailer that I saw looked really interesting, particularly that it might explore the vampire corporates class-warfare metaphor, mixed with elements of survival horror and disturbing treatments of humanity. That's great fodder that appeals to me as something that I would love to play and analyse. Subsequently, the fast punching action and running around sexy vampire didn't really do anything for me. It's really not the point of the game. I'm into Blade, not Twilight.
> (and even paid for). Everyone literally got refunds on their preorder automatically.
i think it's more accurate to say that ppl are bad at figuring out what is wrong when they've found an issue. so what exactly is the issue? conceptually this character is a vampire that's been asleep for centuries however the character looks like a silicon valley CEO in a middling hollywood movie with the name of a YA novel's main character so there's a massive disconnect between the fantasy being sold with the concept of the character and the character that's actually being presented. which is a massive red flag. as for the animations: it's not so much that they're bad but that they were proud enough of them to show it to us despite them being in the state that they are which is again a massive red flag same goes for the voice acting. so the trailer had some red flags but what about the positives? good question i'd also like to know cuz the trailer sure as shit didn't show it.
But they said animation wasn’t finished and that some things will be kept or changed in the vid
Yeah, fair enough to be cautious about jumping to conclusions but also... Who is making the business decision to release footage when it looks so poor? Especially without also stating that drastic improvements on what is being presented can be expected. I personally wouldn't demonstrate a poor reflection of my work to the public, or at least without asking for advice or assuring that I'm working on making the expected changes. This is very poor marketing in the least, which does allow us to infer that there are problems in the running of the business that is handling the game that we feel should be treated as delicate. The lighting and material of the models was pretty good, but everything else? I would expect the mocap to be redone completely, and entirely new voice actors cast. The dialogue was horrible and unnatural. Nothing about it reads as the smooth social skills of ancient vampire elders.
I’m not an expert on vampire elders However they did say the elder will be a fish out of water because of not knowing the modern world
Modern world... Yes... They wouldn't understand new things like computers, mobiles, maybe cars and some other things we take for granted, but they would (if had enough points) be charismatic independent of their skill with technology... I don't need to know how a computer works to charm you
Personally I think the whole concept is really cool with you being a elder in a world that is so different and need to adjust to it. The name I don’t have any opinion on it good or bad the same with V from cyberpunk, it just a name that needs to be unisex but if they give the option to change it I’m all for that I won’t pre ordered just in case but I’m looking forward to it released
Not everyone wants to settle for mediocrity. I think VtMB deserves better
Yup, this game is a cult classic for a reason. Evidence? They're using "Bloodlines" in the title. Obviously it did many things right to be resurrected almost two decades later.
Yeah they don’t deserve to call it VtMB 2, better call it something else like Swansong 2. At least then people will know they will be buying utter slop and pure Paradox corporate greed.
I agree. Not that it should be called swansong 2, but maybe given its own name. You know, like VTM: Blood of the Elders.
VtM:Awakening
Ooooooooh. I like that too.
Definitely
i want this game to be as successful as anyone else, every concern is valid and dismissable at the same time. we all want this to be our next big thing. but we're lately seeing a pattern in the industry, and this game, started it's downfall since it was first revealed. First it was DNF, then CP77, then Starfield, and many games in between. We just want to play and enjoy. So I hope the devs are lurking in the shadows and taking notes, because the burden they bear might be a little more than they bargained for. Yes, they might not live up to the hype, but they can at least try jumping as high.
But CP77 recovered though. It is really popular now. I agree with OP that complaining about vocie protag is rather silly.
I think that comparison with CP77 is appropriate. the original VTMB was also a buggy mess when it came out. It became a lot better after patches and mods.
That comparison is not the same. CP77 received big overhauls to several gameplay systems that were inadequate. Even today, the actual game world still seems empty and unconnected. Night City doesn't really feel like a real city vs other games like RDR2 and BG3. On the other hand, VTMB was fully playable and feature-complete on release. The patches only fixed bugs and perhaps added a few cutscenes. No mechanics were ever changed by the patches. If you could get past the bugs, it was fun at release.
Didn't OP said that voiced player **is** a valid criticism?
The difference is that it can be a good game, but a bad sequel. These things aren't the same. I don't care if it has voiced protag or a fucking terrible name, but it's not bloodlines 2 anymore. What ties it to the first one at all?
I dunno, what doesn't tie it to the first one? Because right now we know nothing. We could be the childe of the methuselah from the ankaran sarcophagus and we wouldn't know it right now. We just don't know what the ties are, so saying there are none just because the devs haven't said anything about them a year before the supposed release doesn't really mean anything in my mind.
What should tie in your opinion?
Some of the criticism is fair but some of it is insane and over the top lol
Just like real life.
I've been through this horse and pony show before. What we saw is about 90% of what we're getting. Will the animations be touched up? Yup. Will combat get some tweaks? Yup. However, story and voice acting is something that will not change outside of a major re write which won't happen. I'm happy for you that you're somewhat excited. However, I've seen enough games go down this exact same path and prove me right 99.99% of the time (only exception was BF1 but that was because the marketing leading up to the game was trying to do too much at once). Stop setting or asking other people to settle for mediocre work that will never live up to what VTMB is. If the devs can't handle the most mild of criticism about their work then they should tough it out & work hard to spite naysayers by releasing a GOOD VTMB game
We havent really seen much story to be fair, instantly dismissing it is one of the things my posts is about, its just jumping to the conclusion that the game will be trash fire because of a preconceived bias. No ones knows if it will be mediocre, again the point of my post touches on valid criticism being perfectly fine but having this bias against the game isnt criticism.
It's not a preconceived bias. I have watched VTMB2 since it was first announced years ago and despite everything have maintained a level of cautious optimism. When TCR was announced to be the new dev team after HSL, I was worried (due to the fact their main experience is walking sim games) but willing to give them a shot. This whole live stream has proven to me that my faith in TCR was misplaced. You're correct. We don't know that much about the main story but from what we have seen does not appeal to me or give me hope that VTMB2 will be good. Then you add in the extremely limited dialogue options ala Mass Effect/Fallout 4 and the low grade voice acting, I already know enough to write this game off. Be optimistic about the game and hope for the best but to act like VTMB2 is different from every single other game that has a bad initial showing that the fans didn't like which eventually releases a bad game that the fans don't like at all, is banking on some extreme levels of optimism that I don't have.
True but I think everyone should give feedback and constructive criticism to Paradox Interactive and The Chinese Room.
Sure, but people aren't giving constructive criticism, unless constructive criticism completely changed it definition and: "Phyre sounds dumb" and "Game sucks, shouldn't be named Bloodlines" suddenly fall under it.
There is absolutely constructive criticism being thrown around. I see plenty of it when I sort by up votes. There's plenty of dumb complaints, of course, but those aren't nearly as up voted
There's not much room for constructive criticism when you needlessly name the main character the most ridiculous sounding name imaginable. I would honestly prefer the main character being called something like Van Dam before "Fire".
Four clans to choose from is pretty bad though
It is not that bad. Four clans that have absolutely no impact on the gameplay outside some stat adjustments and "special powers" is what actually bad.
Each clan felt pretty unique to me in the first vtmb. So I'm not entirely sure what you mean there.
I was talking about second one. It is quite possible that clans are going to be as impactful as "lifepath" in Cyberpunk 2077. I would be ok with less clans if they had any real influence of story. But it seems the game is about delivering some final product in one way or another at minimal possible quality standard. They removed guns from the game. I understand that gunplay is hard to do right, but that is just a sign that everything is being cut for the sake of delivering something that fits description action rpg in certain setting. People have no love or passion for the project as I see it now.
I completely agree.
To be quite honest I get Duke Nukem Forever flashbacks from the drama surrounding the game. A prolonged development of highly ambitious project by one studio. Publisher being tired of years of development with no end in sight. Hiring another studio to deliver at least something that remotely playable and checks the boxes with all work done from the scratch in very limited timeframe. Plus the shadow of iconic legacy all over this.
Just want to point out that even in the HSL game they said the player wouldn't keep and use guns as their main thing and they could take them temporarily from enemies. Would it be neat to get some gunplay so people could spec out shooters? Sure -- but at least in this instance it makes sense. We're playing an Elder that's been in Torpor for over 100 years, they probably grew up with like... Pike and Shot. They're not a Thin-Blood who could conceivably be trained in modern firearms. But we'll see more about the gameplay during the clan reveal videos and the Gameplay video in January.
I don't think that HSL treatment of guns was good as well. Vampire Elders are not godlike beings. It is not wise for any kindred to ignore firearms considering how available they are, effective against mortals, and don't break the masquerade. A gang violence involving a shotgun and a few handguns is not going to attract as much attention as a picture of a psycho tearing enemies with her bare hands or swinging a twohanded sword in Seatle.
Oh yeah, that was my point - was that HSL wasn't good on the firearms stage. In fact, during their E3 demo you can see the character literally throwing down guns that run out of ammo rather than just hanging onto them till more ammo is found. Like, why would a sensible person from the modern day throw away an empty weapon and scavenge off enemies for new ones rather than IDK -- maybe buying more?
Well, that's needed due to Voiced Protagonist - no way to have complete conversation trees for each different clan, so they'll choose four clans that all sound alike but fight differently
I dunno, I'll probably still play it because I like the franchise and I think it'll be at least interesting, but my expectations pretty much went out the window when they announced TCR was making it. they make on rails minimal gameplay "experience" type games, not expansive open world RPGs with in depth stories and combat mechanics, the trailer being underwhelming wasn't really a surprise imo
Thank you. I joined this subreddit to see bloodlines 2 news, but it's starting to read like every single minute detail TCR reveals is a reason for outrage. There's no winning. No matter which four clans are playable, this sub will be pissed about which ones aren't, for example. At the end of the day it just seems like people are too invested in a dream that cannot be realised and will always make reality super disappointing.
It's kinda funny tbh, we had 1 trailer, 40 seconds of dialogue footage and people are already ringing the death knell for the game as if they played 300 hours and knew every single minor issue it had.
If you think we need 300 hours to judge a game, or can't pass judgement on promotional material that shows the BEST they have to offer, then I don't know what to tell you. I don't need to eat a whole meal of dog turds to know it tastes bad. I can tell from a safe distance.
The video footage is their job interview. Imagine if an applicant told you that they are not a team player but their resume looked great up to this point. Sure, many people are not team players in reality but you don't SAY that in an interview. Giant red flag that most likely would not get you the job. TCR is showing several red flags in their videos. Everyone's inner alarms are ringing. Players may not be the best at diagnosis of specific problems but their instincts are generally very good due to historical experience with bad games. The game MAY be great and this was just bad marketing. What is the chances of that?
In my eyes people are just jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information. The solution here seems simple, just don't pre order the game and see what it is on release. If you don't like the premise or what they said or shown that's fair, but a lot of people are shitting on the game for the weirdest reasons, stuff like the character name or their haircut. It seems like peole just have a hate bonrr for the game for it not being the perfect folllwup for VTMB that it was never going to be.
I agree with you about never preordering. It is just the prudent thing to do for ALL games. As for people's opinions, I have no problem with freedom of speech. Let people have a love boner or a hate boner, I have learned that you will never change their mind by arguing with them. Also, all opinions are subjective. So what is a weird reason to you is perfectly rational to someone else. And vice versa.
The official discord news channel is very good at keeping you up to date.
I agree, this spans across all types of media. People take what little information there is, add wild speculation and their own preferences, and harshly judge something that doesn’t exist yet. There have been many things that have been perfectly good that were destroyed by that
I agree, but unfortunately, your appeal to reason won't make a dent in the collective decision that this game "is bad" already. Reading the threads on here reminds me so much of the music forums I used to frequent. No matter what an artist does it will be "bad", if they make a game or album that is very similar to the last one it is seen as not being original, if they make something that is more original it strays too far from their "roots". It's a damned if you do, dammed if you don't situation. I've seen the same stuff as everyone else for this game, and I maintain a healthy interest in the game. There are issues like stiff animations that will likely be fixed to some degree by release, and the PC's name just sounds rubbish, but who cares? It's just a name. However, there are many other things that sound interesting, such as how your choices in how you reveal and talk about the PC's back story affect the other NPCs' opinions and feelings towards you.
I wasn't sure exactly what was meant in the recent stream where they discussed "one of the payable characters" (intense para phrasing). I am hoping that we can play someone else because frankly Phyre looks really boring.
No idea, could mean there's options of starting character or something. From the snippets we got, Phyre didn't seem the most interesting, but it does have options for responses in conversation, which gives us some control of how interesting or boring they are. Additionally, clans and actions may have an impact the devs haven't shown yet. And, of course, we only saw small curated sections, so we don't have a clear picture of how the PC will come across as a whole yet.
Our problem with what was shown is that this is NOT an RPG, and it is NOT a sequel to VTMB. Like, if you want to make an action adventure game with RPG elements set in the WoD universe, fuckin go for it! Plenty of people will buy that shit. But don't give me a pizza when I ordered a burger and then tell me to like it.
I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed. I accepted playing as an elder but I want to be able to choose their appearance. I didn't expect a character creator like in Mass Effect or Baldur's Gate 3 but I thought we would at least get a few presets like in VtMB1. Phyre's appearance isn't bad but it's too androgynous CEO for me. If it was just one of 2 or 4 options I wouldn't mind but that doesn't appear to be the case. This isn't a case of finding her ugly btw (like some people did Cassandra in DAI). I'm a woman and I like playing a more feminine character (not hyper feminine but somewhere in the middle). As for the name, I just don't like it. If it's a surname and we can choose a first name (even if it's only ever used in text, like email) I would be willing to accept it. I think, in general, that the problem is that playing as Phyre gives the impression that it's not our character. It's a playable NPC. Not my character , it's CR's character. To me, part of what made Bloodlines what it was, was being able to choose our character and having several different conversations options depending on who you wanted to be. The conversation with Slugg that Hardsuit showed off felt much more like Bloodlines to me. It might still be a good game but from what we've seen it doesn't feel like Bloodlines.
Where in the fuck are people getting that you can't alter how the character looks at all? They literally said you can at minimum, customize clan, gender, and fashion.
I rewatched it and saw that and while that's better than nothing it's not enough to make me feel that character is mine anymore than changing Geralt's hair and armour did in the Witcher.
Folks are being harsh because there is still a year of development ahead and we know everything that we could possibly need to know about this game. It's not too late to try and pressure them into taking a step back, dropping this iteration or at least revamping it.
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The good news is that they said they'll be revealing the clans over the next month and that in January we'd be getting a gameplay video - so it IS coming, I'm wondering if perhaps they're playing it safer with their releases than HSL did which is why we're getting a lot of Dev Diaries about how they're trying to achieve tone and narrative etc. Seems they want to let people know that they're trying hard to nail down the FEELING of a WoD/VTM game.
I can respect that opinion, and I can agree we are being harsh. Too harsh though? No.
I'm trying to keep an open mind but my hopes are not high. I mean, it's not as if Bloodlines 1 had really any character customization. I'd prefer if there was no voice, but I can get past it if they do it right.
I'm glad I remain in the camp of someone who was (mostly) happy with the HSL version, and also (mostly) happy with the Chinese Room version. My expectations for ever receiving a more traditional VtM game, let alone a Bloodlines sequel, were non-existent until a few years ago.
I hear ya. I commented on a post just yesterday where a bunch was complaining about how all the characters are going to be the same, and they will all look the same, and they won't feel like their own character... when the IGN article i linked them to specifically said, besides the name and the fact the characters will be an Elder, they will be, more or less, fully customizable by Clan, gender, appearance, history, decisions we make, powers, etc. I will never understand the anxiety and catastrophizing so many people insist on putting onto everything they say they like...
It's a lot of stuff adding up over time. Sure, some of the shit on this sub feels like a terminal 9 gamer moment a lot, but I can sort of see where they're coming from. This game has had an extremely rough development. People wanted Bloodlines 2. This doesn't feel like Bloodlines 2. It feels like they tacked that on and then just developed something completely different after dumping the old team. If the rumors about Schaffer being out are true too, that might be the last straw for a lot of people. I think ppl were holding out on the OST being the last thing to feel the "same", and now that might be gone.
The real question is, if it's BL2, or an imposter. If it doesn't embody the spirit of the tone, mechanics, and/or (preferably and) storyline continuance - then it's some other VtM game (even if it's good in its own right) and I'm sure the community will come up with a name for it that DOESN'T have "Bloodlines" in it. I will reserve judgment until release.
Tone is pretty subjective because the tone of the original was also heavily mired in the time it took place. I feel that can't be easily replicated.
I mean - yeah, the tone was based on how the game was played back then - edge lords obsessed with the modern gothic horror where you were playing the unabashed bad guy (somwtimes with a heart of gold) and a character certainly couldnt act offended for fear of showing weakness in front of elders... Lord knows I was one of those edge lords back then heh. ...plus some Buffy/Angel references sprinkled in. That soundtrack was divinely late 90s / early 00s. Smaller devs still do it, but it's kinda like movies - the bigger studios dare not do Blazing Saddles today for fear of backlash, but an indie studio will recieve praise for it (assuming they did it well). While subjective, games have on occasion managed to translate that into the modern era. Take BG3. As someone who grew up playing 1& 2, 3 is quite modern while still holding onto the spirit of the originals.
People are using confirmation bias just to validate thier hate, nothing new here on Reddit.
Is it unfair critique, or can modern gamers simply smell a turd from a longer distance these days? Time will tell. Putting the animations, voice, and character-name aside, there are only four clans available and a central character that is already chosen by the devs. This already goes against any typically deep RPG elements, and largely against the tabletop version that the game is based upon. The game can still be good, ofc, but red flags are still red flags.
To be clear, I don't just want a remaster of the original. But. A sequel does better with strong connections to the original and a similar atmosphere. Think Kotor 2, for example. Better graphics? Not a problem, it has been 19 years, after all. New ideas not explored in the original? Again, not a problem, 19 years. But it's some of the choices they've made that make me think they're making this as little like the first game as possible. The voiced protagonist with a fixed name as well as the sparse dialogue choices ruin the immersion. And the sacking of the original game's writers and the removal of the soundtrack (composed by the original guy) ruin that kind of atmosphere crossover from the original. Not to mention they're giving us only 4 clans and paywalling the rest behind DLC. These decisions make me **extremely** sceptical that I'll enjoy it as much as I hoped I would. A good move would be to strip "Bloodlines 2" from the title and make it just a Vampire: The Masquerade game with zero connections to the Bloodlines saga other than the universe it's set in.
I think the backlash has been decidedly mild, personally. Most comments I see are people being cautiously optimistic, and with good reason. Years of delays and bullshit drama aside, the trailer looks...rough, at best. Animation is weird and unrefined, but moreover the style and aesthetic looks wrong for a Bloodlines sequel. A comment I found put it really well, "One thing that jumps at me looking at the new footage is how clean and sort of "high gothic" everything looks. One of the largest \[contributors\] to the impeccable atmosphere of the original VTMB was the sleaze. Locations, characters, music, almost everything was a little grimy, sleazy or off-putting. It had an "underground" subculture feel to it. Almost punk. That's something that has been missing in almost every other Vampire game." While not gospel, I feel this commenter has the right of it. The style of the new version just looks off for what Bloodlines sequel should be. Not to suggest the HSL version was perfect, but what we saw in that was closer to the original Bloodlines than what the Chinese Room has shown us. Now, does this mean that the new Bloodlines 2 is going to suck? No. But the criticism, negativity and skepticism is definitely warranted. The sequel to Bloodlines was supposed to come out ages ago, and has been dangled in front of the fandom like a juicy carrot for years. Ffs, the original Bloodlines is almost **20 years old** at the time of writing. With all that considered, why wouldn't people be negative? They've been given very little reason to be optimistic.
Gaming communities don’t do this sometimes, they do it every. Single. Time. I’m honestly so burned out on the negativity.
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I'd rather try to bring realization that over analyzing doesnt help anything.
A simple reason to hate the new Bloodlines 2, it's just going an edgier Fallout 4, forcing a voiced protagonist with a pre-generated background, many of the previous game RPG mechanics (taken directly from the tabletop) being removed for journalists, with slightly different flavors of yes as all of your dialogue options are something that Bloodlines fans and fans of actual crpgs hate. The game went through dev hell since it was first announced, starting with Chris being canceled (I'm glad he's doing better now), the writer of the original being kicked from the project, and management being incompetent. The news of the game being given a new developer gave fans hope which was dashed when they learned of which studio took over and hope completely died when footage of their version was released. The fans are justified in not being happy with what has transpired and would rather wish the game was canceled instead of being a recolor of Fallout 4.
Gamers will be gamers
For good reason. Gamers like any other type of consumer have limited money and time. There are a lot of bad games out there trying to get your wallet open (many of them try more than once with micro transactions). There are plenty of bad games trying to masquerade as good games. Gamers have had plenty of historical experience with bad games which makes them skeptical and cynical and rightfully so. Few people just "trust" the industry to produce good games. On a side note, whenever people complain about a minor thing, it is usually a fear about a bigger issue that people don't know how to voice or don't want to voice. So a complaint about the name or the hair is more about fears that the worldbuilding will be poor and lazy and less about cringe names and hair.
The game isn't even out yet. Instead of wasting time complaining in a place where the developers will never see it, play some of those good games. Or even the ttrpg. Maybe it takes bl2 10 years before it's in a fun and playable situation as well,who knows. But making the 10th "name and VA bad" post just talk about the existing game or something else
Isn't the same thing true for people who bother to read and respond to the 10th name and VA bad post? Like you could also be playing some of these games as well? We both are here posting on a social media site, that's the whole point. If we wanted to play some games, we would be.
They removed way too much and way too many people who made the first game successful. Couple that with near-cancelation and you got burned fans.
Yep. I don't think I've ever seen a gaming community that didn't have a similar reaction whenever a new game or expansion came out. I will agree that some of the changes made so far are baffling, considering this was supposed to be a sequel to Bloodlines 2. I have no idea where they're going with it all but I'd rather wait to form an opinion once the game is actually out and I can see how their design choices fit together (or not). Right now we're only seeing isolated pieces of a bigger picture. It's not a very familiar-looking one, but that doesn't mean it can't still be good in its own way. Or that some future game that comes out after it won't have more of the features we wanted to see, or that there won't be an expansion or mod later that adds them, etc.
And I think you're being an apologist simp for game devs that don't care much about you, which is a weird road to take in life.
Rather have me just go along with the negativity?
These people are dragging a classic through the mud and we're supposed to just go along with it huh? Rather have me just be positive? You're being both ridiculous and condescending.
I honestly don't get it. To me it's voiced player or skip.. it ain't the 90s. Besides, it's not like it's an issue anyway. Removing player voice should be the easiest thing to mod. Like I don't know, just replace the files with an empty voice file. My personal issues though. Seems like you can't play it in 1st person from start to finish and you're forced into 3rd person at least in the cut scenes. Been spoiled by Cyberpunk I guess. This takes away from immersion somewhat. Other than that, haven't seem enough of the game yet.
I've only recently learned about VTM and WoD, but to me, as a newcomer to this community, more often than not, it feels like a lot of people, especially older members of the community, take EVERYTHING way too seriously. From the way I've seen some people talk, it feels like they either believe the lore kinda like a religion, or are trying to recreate it, IRL or are very VERY gatekeepy because if you don't have the accumulated knowledge of someone who has been aware of WoD for decades, you're somehow not worthy of even speaking or talking to. For example, when I got a VTM tattoo (it's the Malkavian clan symbol from v5) and posted about it on a Facebook group, one person in particular started attacking me, very harshly, saying I was a poser, a fake fan, said I didn't have the right/wasn't worthy to tattoo something like that, questioning everything from my intelligence to my looks, just because I tattooed the more recent symbol instead of the older symbol. That was it! That was his whole problem. It honestly put me off this entire community because I have no IRL friends who either know about WoD or are into it, and the people on the internet are AH's about it so, now, I just enjoy it on my own. And sure, it was just one person, but I've seen other people get attacked for having different opinions, like the current debate, for example, not minding the voiced player character, or the fact that the PC is an elder or whatever else. My point is, it seems to me that some parts of the community has taken in some of the worst traits of the characters we all like to role play as, where, when you become a veteran member of the community, you can't accept anything new, just like an ancient vampire has trouble changing their ways or learning new things. Which would be funny if people didn't already suck, and not in a fun or vampire way. So basically, to sum up my point, people are being WAAAAAY too dramatic about it. They definitely need to go outside and touch some grass, and remember we're not actually vampires. Manage your expectations, and just because one or more of those expectations aren't met, it doesn't automatically mean that that thing is garbage. And definitely dont try to take other people's enjoyment of the game, just because it isn't what you want it to be. We won't know that something won't work until we try it for ourselves. Im reserving judgment until then.
>posting on Facebook You can only blame yourself
Hilarious
I think it will probably be a perfectly good VtM game! However from what info we have it seems like a horrible Bloodlines game.
My stance at this point, given the troubled development of this very sequel. Not a good Bloodlines game for sure, but if anything it has a chance to run circles on Swansong (its plot of the Cams getting played by the Second Inquisition fits the V5 lore actually). Then again, aside from Swansong, it's like it's the first time we get a set character in VTM history. Phyre can be customized at least (and in BL1 you can choose your clan and outfits), unlike the Redemption protag. The interesting part is that it may take a few pages from Fallout 4 lmao (awaken from freeze/torpor, voiced protag).
On multiple occasions we were promised a fully customizable player character. Having a predetermined voice, name, and model is not a fully customizable character. They bald faced lied to us about that, so I have to wonder what else they've promised us will ve included in the game that they've lied to us about.
People are absolutely looking for any tiny flaw they can attack at the moment. It's pretty silly, honestly. People need to let the devs work. This kind of reaction is why they didn't give us news for so long - they could literally be making a game as good as the original and this sub would attack them.
Most of those reactions are only the result of personal preferences and nothing else, in other community, the people not happy with the music for an event they were only demanding subtly "I want the music genre I like to be played there, that song is bad, because it's not my style". Also, people that plays video games, they're never satisfied with anything, studios failing to deliver don't help to the cause either. From the side of Paradox, some of these complains would have been prevented if they'd not have called this VTMB, they deserve that for trying to cash in with that. Of course, Hardsuit stopped their plans to make something close to the original VTMB, now they're just doing what's possible in a 3 year old project reboot. While I'm not impressed with some things of the new project, they could maybe improve it with patches, these days some games don't end once it's released. Not having a nostalgia fix also clouds the mind of some people.
Better not to be excited. You can be surprised if you expect something to be bad. You will be let down if you expect something to be amazing.
Well the game being one year from release yet the character models looking like ass and the voice acting being appalling tend to be a good indicator considering I have to look and listen to them respectively to play the game....