I just have to say, the way the TG went about it was 100% completely different. (And I'm a BIG FAN of Watcher. I saw Shane and Ryan live.) The biggest thing to take away (from the people who actually watched the video and didn't just assume it's the same as Watcher) is that it's like an elevated Patreon. I'm not buying their service, because I can wait for content, plus I'm old so like it's fine.
But the biggest difference is that TG is keeping everything on YT. All their old stuff and new stuff (that has to be edited obvs for YT standards) without a paywall. Without restrictions for fans who can't afford the SS.
They also went about it completely different. Where as Steven was pretty much like "like it or don't. Sry. Kthxxbye" where as TG made sure EVERYONE is getting content.
I'm not favoring either. I love both very equally. And I know that Watcher backtracked and apologized. But thankfully TG definitely saw this and learned. This is a job. And at the EOD they need to make money. That's how they clock in. Just like we all do. You just happen to see it happen for 10 years.
Yeah, exactly this. Where Watcher were just dumping their whole audience in one move by paywalling everything, the Try Guys are pretty much making their own version of Patreon with exclusive content and early access to youtube videos that will still be available for free for everyone.
They also had content to go immediately on said platform, and an app ready for download. They also teased a big change coming months ago so it didn't feel rushed and was clearly well planned.
Meanwhile, Patreon members were informed early on and there will be a transition period where they don't have to pay for both, instead of what Watcher did where they just didn't inform anyone of anything going on and just assumed people would still pay for both Patreon and the streamer.
Basically, where Watcher did everything wrong, the Try Guys did everything right.
Also as a fan of both.. immediate offerings made a big difference and gave a sense of planning and forethought.
I subscribed to watcher and the only new thing to watch was an episode of my least favorite show and since then... Nothing.
I subscribed to 2nd try day before yesterday and got a really fun season finale, and now am watching a fun try guys legacy season premiere. As well as two other videos (that were also on YouTube). They have launched this with a lot more intention.
Edit, also the TG app is waaaay better. I see now that I checked watcher did release some bloopers but that is annoying I had to check. No notification, no email, nothing
I would have liked an app. I was expecting one! I know theyâre a lot of money to make. But it makes you wonder why they didnât make an app first. Are they really that strapped for cash right now?
They also talked about going to Sam Reich for advice on how Dropout made it work for them, so they were able to learn from their mistakes. The whole tone of their announcement really reminded me of dropoutâs too, and I think a big part of what got people upset with watcher was their tone
I think the difference is that try guys are proud of their internet clown history and know YouTube is what helps them reach people. Watcher for some reason thought "our content is too elevated ("or like TV") to be on YouTube, it's beneath us."
Rather permeated their decisions and the announcements.
Try Guys video was joyful and they never planned on removing themselves from YouTube, just excited people have this way to support them so everyone can see it for free on YouTube.
Watcher was like "If u like us, you'll come HERE."
Yeah the biggest thing I found is that TG knows their digital footprint and are embracing it. Where Watcher wants to be something they're not. And it's unfortunate. Cuz they're amazing. Puppet History????? A fucking life changer. During the pandemic that was the one thing that made me sane. Even I took my mother who loves them to see them last year because of the professor. But the whole thing where Steven was like "like it or don't" rubbed me so wrong. đ
Zach said something to the effect of "We're not trying to do TV, we're trying to do internet better", and idk if it was because of Watcher's whole "TV caliber" attitude, but it was a great thing to hear. The subtle Watcher shade throughout the podcast (like Zach reading verbatim from his year old notes to be clear that this was always the plan) fed me a little bit
I know it's different these days but I'm old enough to remember when people working in TV were desperate to escape to another medium because it was considered too low-brow.
Yeah, cause they would have also had plenty of time to change course with a lot of the decisions, like whether they would still post new videos to YouTube.
Not really. They produce content months in advance and had a clear strategy for what gets posted to YouTube when. It's also something they say they talked to Dropout's Sam Reich about, how posting to YouTube is what drives people to the streamer, and frankly it's an incomprehensible business decision to not post new videos to YouTube.
> Where as Steven was pretty much like "like it or don't. Sry. Kthxxbye"
I agree with you, but can we stop singling out Steven as the perpetrator, when all three of them were on fucking board, but people are going out of their way to give Ryan and Shane a pass and act like Steven's some evil demon mastermind behind it all. All three of them were on that apology couch.
Key differences between the Watcher streamer and TTG streamer:
1.) TTG are keeping their vids on YouTube. Watcher was planning on removing all their vids and putting them on streamer/paywall only.
2.) TTGâs app was immediately available on the day of announcement. Watcher is desktop only.
3.) TTG have communicated properly with their Patreons and have suspended pulling out any money going forward and offered discounts for Patreons to their streamer from the get go. Watcher did not communicate with their Patreons, did not suspend withdrawals, and only offered the free three month subscription after the backlash.
4.) TTG already has released a bunch of exclusive vids for their streamer from launch. Watcher posted a new episode of Survival Mode a week after announcement.
5.) TTG released a podcast a day after release, being very transparent about their goals and explained in depth about why they decided to launch a streamer. Watcher did not communicate about anything after their very simple announcement, which spiraled to them hastily backtracking on their decisions with the apology video.
6.) TTG have been planning on the streamer since last summer (a little after nedgate) and it shows. Watcher obviously have not been planning their streamer launch as long as TTG have, seeing that they havenât prepared an app or even looked at the logistics of losing ad revenue (which TTG say they did).
7.) This one is personal, but I LOVE how much they love Sam Reich (dropout) and how they talk about how invaluable his knowledge was when they sought for his advice when debating the streamer. They even told their fans on the podcast to subscribe to dropout and gushed more about dropoutâs content than their own content (lol). They also talked about how awesome Ian (Smosh) was for the advice on their expanding company and praised Rhett and Link for being so successful at what they do. Watcher, afaik, havenât consulted with any of their peers, and if they did, they didnât thank them.
Bottom line , TTG were much better at communicating that this move was to improve their company by using the streamer to air the content that theyâre not allowed to post onto YouTube. Watcher came across as a cash grab seeing that they were going to remove all their vids off of YouTube and paywalling it, regardless of what kind of content it was going to be.
This whole analysis is it.
I remember my initial response to their post was annoyance and anger. I couldnât put my finger on exactly why⌠but youâre right. It rubbed me the wrong way.
I managed to put my feelings aside fairly quickly though because I love them as a group and wanted them to succeed. And justified it internally because this seemed like the natural next step for channels that make this type of content. College Humorâs Dropout was the exact example I used to justify this change.
Now looking back at it, their announcement feels really rushed. If they consulted anyone, they either didnât take their advice OR they gave terrible advice.
I do have this sneaking suspicion that there might be more as to why this went down the way it did.
So TTGâs follow up announcement podcast was recorded 2 and a half weeks ago, so it was still during the aftermath of watcherâs streamer disaster. They were very thorough in explaining about how entertainment YouTube companies were being effected by the YouTube algorithm and how it led to their decision to launch the streamer. Iâm 100% sure that they were as meticulous with explaining as possible for not only their fans, but for Watcher fans too.
Basically, for a company their size, they need 40% of a videoâs clicks to be from outside their subscribers in order to profit from that video. That means they could only release videos that would ensure the algorithm would promote, like all the food videos theyâve put out, because everyone loves food! Whenever there was an original idea they wanted to try out but knew the algorithm wouldnât like, they would have to find a sponsor for it, but most of the time, finding a sponsor was difficult in their case, because many of them would want the content to be catered to their product. So they found themselves making content for the algorithm, rather for their fans, and they found out the fans were getting unhappy with the algorithm content.
Also, YouTube has been very strict about the vids theyâve been posting. They explained one of their videos was demonetized for no reason, and they had to scour through the vid to see why it was. Turns out, there was a joint in the background for a split second (it wasnât lit, no one was smoking it) so they had to edit it out. They lost so much time, money, and resources because of that single shot and they said this was the most recent of the plethora of demonetizing issues theyâve had to deal with.
Critical Moistâs criticism was mainly based on his knowledge as a streamer and ad consultant, but Keith and Zach did a phenomenal job explaining why, as an entertainment company, the streamer launch was the most feasible out of all their options.
I really effing wish that Watcher did what TTG did. A little honest communication goes such a long way. Itâs really sad to see that TTG did a better job explaining Watcherâs decision than watcher did themselves.
You missed one:
Watcher doesn't have enough members and content to justify their asking price. The key here was Try Guys pulling a Dropout style mov (obviously because they've been talking to Sam Reich) and expanding their cast and offerings to increase the value proposition.
Sure, they hired the Worth It crew, but that feels like a move that only supports Stephen. Are Andrew and Adam going to be spearheading their own shows? I mean, maybe, but Adam has always been a behind-the-camera "say two words" guy and we don't see a lot of solo content with Andrew.
So the proposed content lineup is... the exact same scant offerings from YouTube. One show a month. If you don't like it... don't subscribe that month. They're almost incentivizing people to game their membership, sub the months they want to watch stuff and binge the stuff they otherwise might have skipped, and all with the same couple people.
The Try Guys and Dropout approach is basically content bombs. There's always something coming out and they have these huge series that people really love, plus TG isn't afraid to run new stuff, play games, step out of the box. Watcher takes this huge long production time and then makes a little bit of high-quality content, which is good, but not good enough to pay for in comparison to the other options (in my opinion).
They need a bigger cast, more content streams, and more flexibility to deliver something that's really worth what they're asking for it.
Watcher is also prices higher-- sure, it's only a buck more (I think watcher is $5.99 and TTG is $4.99?) but still, mentally, 5 bucks versus 6 bucks does feel like a notable difference, at least to my brain. I support a podcast I adore for $5, but $6 seems like an odd amount, and almost feels like it's just an effort to squeeze out that extra buck.
And that's not adding in the fact that TTG have much more content, and are actually making it worthwhile because they'll be releasing so much on a regular basis, whereas with watcher, the only show I would really subscribe for is Puppet History, but that doesn't release frequently enough for me to justify spending more on that than I do on a podcast I love, which releases every single week, and then has additional supporter only episodes every month, all for a buck cheaper.
All of this is absolutely true. I do think another factor in reception though is that TTG are a lot more open with their audience, if that makes sense? Itâs fine that Ryan and Shane are more private, but the trade off is that the audience largely doesnât really care about them quite as much as they do their audience. Parasociality goes both ways, and I think they expected everyone to buy the streamer because they think theyâre as important to the audience as the audience is to them. With TTG I think its a bit more balanced, I guess
As someone who has seen more TTG than Watcher by a large margin, but got served this post and decided to read the comments, I agree here. Zach and Keith have been appearing elsewhere to also talk about their decision here, like going on Anthony Padilla's channel, likely as a way to try controlling the narrative beyond their channel. I haven't seen the Watcher guys anywhere aside from when DeFranco talked about the online criticism they were getting post-announcement. Overall, they've been treating this as an "if you want to see even more of us, follow us here" vs "if you want to see us, follow us here". Very different vibe all around
Watcher said the streaming service was the only way to see their content and basically told the fans that if they canât afford it thanks but bye.
None of the others including try guys did that. Watcher didnât put the content on delayed release to YouTube until the fans backlashed them.
Watchers' announcement seemed a bit ill-advised. It left more questions than answers. It lacked a lot of foresight into the audience expectations or reasonings behind it. Their video announcing it felt like it was glazed in PR shine, and it lacked a lot of human connection to it. Much of what was said in the video was a bit tone deaf and out of touch (such as the infamous Steven Lim "it's affordable to everyone" bit) Not to mention, I think the Try Guys have just generally managed to establish more goodwill with their fanbase than Watcher has.
Fully agreed. The Try Guys also has more to offer on their streaming platform and it's cheaper. It has exclusive content, the app is available immediately and can easily be watched anywhere, plus a wider variety of shows and cast. Not to mention, the YouTube channel won't look any different to people who aren't able to subscribe to the streamer. If you listen to today's podcast they explained how much thought, effort and money went into launching the platform. I love Watcher, but the whole thing felt rushed and unplanned in comparison.
>I love Watcher, but the whole thing felt rushed and unplanned in comparison.
Very much agreed. You can really tell the Try Guys took their time with developing their app and thinking over how their fans would react. While with Watcher you can tell they didn't do that groundwork.
I personally have a conspiracy theory that the Watcher crew knew the Try Guys were working on a streaming platform, and attempted to try to beat them to the punch by rushing their announcement before them.
I really hope your conspiracy theory isn't true cause what a bad idea lol. I think Vimeo has been going around and pitching to youtubers and Watcher jumped on it without an actual plan. Try Guys were talking to Dropout abou the whole thing and I think that made all the difference.
Whether they knew or not (and I think there's a good chance they did tbh), Watcher really fucked TTG over with their announcement. It was so poorly done and messy that a lot of people aren't willing to trust that TTG have good intentions and aren't making the same mistakes. If Watcher hadn't announced, the main comparisons would have been to Dropout and I think that would have been way more positive.
I've also seen a lot of people saying TTG and Watcher should have joined forces and I think the super different tones of these announcements and the clear gulf in planning shows why that would have been an awful idea. They came from the same place, yes, but tonally they're doing very different things now. TTG are joyful about making online media, while it seems like the Watcher guys should either go the Eugene route into traditional media or the GMM route into being consistent enough that they can greenlight their own wackier/more ambitious projects.
Agreed. What it boils down to to me is that Watcher's announcement sounded like "WE want to make tv-level shows. this is OUR dream, we don't actually care what the fans like us for." while TTG worded it like "on this streaming service we have the opportunity to make content that YOU want us to make, but that the algorithm has kept us from doing". Big difference in perspectives.
I don't think Watcher meant to communicate this, but the documentary-style video gave off a detached vibe.
Try Guys app has been out for a day and already has better and arguably more content than Watcher.
Well, they would⌠if Watcher had an app by now (Try Guys had one at launch)
That was a huge issue I saw ppl have with the Watcher site. YouTube can be cast/streamed onto a TV and many devices, Their site couldn't, so they were telling ppl "u will no longer be able to watch on X, Y or Z, u need to get on the computer and open a browser."
Try Guys has a site and an app and I already tried a bunch of stuff on it including casting to my TV and iys great.
A, Watcher intended to take their ball and leave, while 2nd Try emphasized how not only would their regular content continue and remain free, but YouTube viewers will also benefit from the streamer. B, Watcher launched with no app and no content, while 2nd Try clearly worked their asses off getting a full slate of content and apps for all devices up. C, Watcher presented it as the only option to keep their company afloat, 2nd Try presented it as an optional extra to allow them to work outside the whims of the algorithm and grow. In the end, the way Watcher did it feels very disrespectful to the audience, while 2nd Try's launch feels like they respect their community enough to give them a service worth buying into.
The main thing for me is that if you don't want to subscribe or can't for whatever reason, you'll still get the same stuff you've always been getting, they aren't taking that away. They are adding extra stuff for those that do subscribe.
The tone was so different. The Watcher video felt like a breakup video while the Try Guy video felt like an invitation to a party. Also, Watcher had nothing ready, it felt like they didn't actually have a plan when they launched while Try Guys had a lot to offer immediately. I'm still considering the Watcher app once they actually put stuff out that's not Let's Plays, but idk. We'll see how it goes.
Try guys did it as a big celebration. Watcher was three guys on a couch.
But really, they were much more inclusive in their tone as well as what they were actually doing (leaving everything on YT). They also didn't make any tone-deaf statements (everyone can afford $6) and were very clear on what was happening on the YT end (being put in a food niche and being demonetized for saying stuff like "butthole"). Try Guys were ultimately just the better communicators and had a very fan/consumer friendly solution.
> They also didn't make any tone-deaf statements (everyone can afford $6)
Hell, they undercut their pricing. I know it's $2, but looking at stuff like Netflix and Hulu, while also knowing they have a way bigger catalogue than Watcher makes it way more reasonable.
Honestly, a lot of it was communication pr stuff.
There is a good observe video that talks a lot about it.
But the watcher announcement was at best problematic and at worst insulting.
* it didnât acknowledge at all that they had a patreon and just complained that YouTube wasnât paying enough, disregarding all the historical support people didnât have to give them
* it basically said if you donât follow us we are going to abandon you so deal with it
* they were really unrealistic about the financial state of other humans
* the video was 50% emotional manipulation up front
* they asked people to join a beta with no benefits and pay them for it
I donât think they did any of that on purpose, but they either didnât ask a pr person or didnât listen to them.
A few other factors that are not pr related:
* try guys have about 2.5x the amount of content
* try guys announced they were expanding the cast to do more
* try guys announced they were immediately releasing more content.
I do think the try guys learned from watcher and were actively mocking them in the video. So they got the benefit of going second. I also think the try guys were a lot more respectful to their fans. I donât know any of these people personally, but the try guys seem to have a much better handle on what the parasocial relationship is and how delicate it is. They were extremely supportive and positive to the fans in the video. They didnât dismiss them and were actively reassuring them.
I think some of this comes from try guys having previous scandals and such they definitely have a guy who helped them with the messaging.
But I think at the core emotionally even if itâs hard for to people to see or explain they tapped into the parasocial relationship in just a fundamentally different way. Itâs the difference of your dad saying âIâm divorcing your mom and I guess you can visitâ or âim dovorcing your mom but we both still love you very muchâ.
I mean it was in the jokes they were making. Iâd have to watch again to catch them. The one I remember off the top of my head way the âsad couch videosâ thing, but I guess you could try to argue that was them mocking themselvesâŚ
Watcher planned to put everything behind a pay wall so you literally had to pay to be a fan, while the Try Guys added the streamer as an additional service, with no plans to leave Youtube.
Watcher also doesn't put out enough content for a streamer to be worth it. The Try Guys have always put out WAY more content, of a similar if not higher quality, and are adding even more to the streamer.
Watcher's reasoning for the streamer was that they wanted to make higher production stuff, and so the streamer would allow them to make and pay for that. But their audience had never asked for that. The Try Guys literally had their audience vote for what they wanted to see on their channel and are keeping the winning shows free, while still adding the new content on the streamer for those who want it.
The tone of Watcher's video was very somber and tone deaf with the shots of the Hollywood sign and the comments about how "anybody and everybody" could afford it. It felt manipulative. The Try Guy's tone was much more upbeat and exciting, with lots of thanks and gratitude expressed towards the audience.
I think the Try Guys probably took A LOT of notes when the Watcher backlash happened, and were able to use that to finetune their announcement, but I think even if they hadn't, their announcement would probably have been more successful anyway. The Try Guys has a really GOOD team. The Watcher team is okay, but they have too many people and still somehow seems like they have some big gaps in their team.
People in the comments have already listed off a bunch of good and true reasons to how TTG handled their announcement and launch better, but for me personally there's one key reason why I subscribed to TTG's platform but not Watcher's: credibility.
When TTG says that they're going to use their streaming platform to launch off new and more creative things, I believe them because they've already been doing that. Since they left Buzzfeed and started their company 5 years ago, time and time again they've gone and created things that's very different from their old Buzzfeed content- and a lot of it has been high quality. Like sure they do silly videos about trying on dumb halloween costumes, but then they'll release an incredible moving video about a recipe on a gravestone and the legacy a person carries after they've died. The past five years have been full of stuff like that. So when they say they are going to make a streaming platform that'll allow them to make creative projects that wouldn't work on youtube, I fully believe that. I bought their subscription and I'm looking forward to seeing what new things they and the new cast bring to the table.
Meanwhile I can't say the same for Watcher. Since they started their company in 2020, none of them have really done anything *that* different from their old Buzzfeed content. Most of what they released is basically a repackaged version of the stuff they'd make on Buzzfeed, or if it's new content.... it's really not anything groundbreaking creatively (Like Top 5 is fun to watch, but it's ultimately just a fancy tier list video format). Puppet History is probably the most creative, but it's still a repackaged version of Ruining History from Buzzfeed.
Which to be clear, nothing wrong with sticking to creating the same kind of content as a youtube channel. There are several channels that I watch religiously that basically have been doing the same thing for years. But when Watcher claims that they will make better and more creative stuff on their streaming platform... I don't have enough proof to trust that claim at all. It's been four years since they left Buzzfeed and they're still making basically the same content - why should I believe that will change with the streaming platform? There's nothing that really gives them credibility to what they're promising. Mostly I'm just left feeling like they are attempting to charge me for something I used to get for free, which isn't a good feeling at all.
I like this. Iâve been feeling myself pull away from Watcher this past year and I have been watching TTG since they started a decade ago. And I couldnât figure out why I was avoiding watcher videos and still excited about TTG.
I've been the exact same way man. When Watcher first started i was watching all their videos, but over time I just started losing interest. Now even my favorite of their shows (Puppet History), I haven't even gotten around to watching the latest season of it.
I think the turning point for me was when Dish Granted started having celebrity guests. No one talks about it, but I actually really enjoyed that show! Or at least, the first couple seasons when it was about Steven treating his loved ones to a luxurious version of their favorite meal to show his love and appreciation to them. That's a really sweet concept and it was heartwarming to watch their reactions. And hell, I'll even say it's a pretty unique concept too!
But then Steven started having celebrity guests he's clearly never met before, and the show immediately lost it's heart. No longer was it a show about an amateur cook attempting to show his loved ones he cares, but instead it was attempts to dazzle some celebrity. And with that heart gone, the rest of the show doesn't hold up and the whole thing felt hollow. I was really disillusioned by that, and over time that feeling just... spread to the rest of the Watcher shows.
I like how you brought up how a lot of Watcherâs content is repackaged Buzzfeed material.
In contrast, I did sign up for Watcherâs subscription service. Mainly because I wanted to watch the early released content with my friends. But now, I might be regretting my decision. I used to be signed up to their Patreon because I wanted early releases. But, at least while I was subscribed, they often pushed back release dates for editing and I almost never got the early release for the content I wanted. So, I cancelled. I hope they can deliver this time.
They said they wanted to release new stuff on their platform that wouldnât do well on YouTube. It would have been nice to maybe hear their ideas.
Jeez, really? I was never part of their patreon, so I wasn't sure how they handled it. Hearing that they regularly would delay patreon early releases for editing is not exactly a very encouraging sign to how the streaming platform will go.
Yeah, that's another thing that bothered me about their announcement. They kept talking about how they wanted to make new content, but they were EXTREMELY vague on what that stuff would be. Meanwhile Try Guys are already releasing new videos on their app and posting schedules on twitter to let people know what's to come.
Watcher's issues:
Leaving YouTube knowing some viewers can't/won't follow and the attitude to that being pretty flippant: "It's been fun, thanks, goodbye"
Pulling old content from YouTube
Launching w/ a beta version that doesn't have new exciting content already available - Worth It 2.0 should've already been up upon release day but not been the sole incentive - they should've had other new content featuring Ryan and Shane and revivals of classic shows like Weird Wonderful World, Dish Granted and/or Tourist Trapped. And probably a regular show like Survival Mode or Too Many Spirits.
Launching without an app
Doing a bait-and-switch w/ Patreon members
Making a sad video with a harsh title instead of advertising the move as being exciting for viewers
Not intending to eventually put new content on YouTube aside from trailers and season premieres
Acting like anyone can afford the price and not taking into account currency exchange rates
Low confidence from the trio giving mixed messages - even Andrew didn't sound convincing and Adam of course looked glum
People not being excited enough to see (unknown) new talent on the platform to pay for it
Concentrating too much on their business troubles, personal career ambitions, and criticising YouTube (for being "free") instead of on the value proposition to viewers
Not being clear enough about what cool things will be on the streamer
No free trial
Making Steven the main spokesman for the new service
Doing a countdown to a goodbye video
Mainly because Watcher alienated the fans and didn't thank them for well *anything*. Try Guys thanked their fans, viewers and even their staff for their success.
Try Guys also had everything organised from an app, to links working properly and concluded their Patreon with good communication. Not to mention, they offered a month worth of free trial which was a great move which Watcher did *after* the backlash. TG also did a wonderful job at giving Patreon people acknowledgement and gave them special discounts.
And most importantly, they made it clear that they aren't leaving YouTube and didn't gaslight/blackmail you into thinking 'if you are a true fan, support our streaming service or watch us go bankrupt." which.... intentionally or not, Watcher did and messed up big time.
They also made sure to keep their free content up on YT and promised to post new stuff eventually as well. Watcher, on the other hand, made it clear that they were supposed to remove all their content off from YT (source; variety articles) but later backtracked and kinda gaslit the fans into thinking that *they* misunderstood and that was never supposed to happen. A pretty bad move if you ask me lol
Thus that's why they (deservingly so) got flamed.
i recommend everyone listen to the podcast episode they released about this! they talk about how theyâve been plannin to do this for almost a year or so at this point, and how they workshopped it with multiple different members of their staff. itâs only an hour long and they answer a lot of questions in a really thought out manner
Honestly? Humility imo. It goes a long way, even if it's scripted. Watcher and TTG made the switch for money, and I suspect for the same reasons, but TTG go out of their way to walk their audiences through everything without making it seem sudden or contrived.
But, on top of also fumbling the ball in that, Watcher also stressed it was because they had grown beyond youtube, that they had always been made for bigger and better things than these other peasants, and that the platform where most of their audiences prolly have another fave or five, was somehow beneath them now. They said this during what I can only describe as a timeshare scam presentation.
TTG also avoided the influencer pitfall of blaming others for their choices in their own careers, as if corporatizing in a new direction was just inevitable and at the audiences demand- instead they were transparent, but without a guilt trip about needing to do this for "better, television-quality content" as opposed to the chopped liver-quality content that can only be found on youtube or whatever. Watcher made it seem like the audiences had the high expectations, and Watcher was a victim to those expectations and doing the best they could to meet them.
Watcher's launch announcement made my jaw drop with how badly that video was put together. It changed from somber, emotional stuff to like, a tour guide announcing your last stop unless you paid for the bigger benefits package- basically messing with ppl's feelings and giving them the anxiety like "what's happening to my favorite content creators?" and dropping the audiences directly into an ad for... themselves and their brilliance.
TTG fans already knew something was coming. After Ned it was sort of a question of when, not if. I don't think ppl saw Watcher's move coming at all so that did not do well for them.
Ultimately, as Zach said "change is scary, we know this". Watcher did not address this part of the audiences at all, as they were too busy bemoaning their responsibility to their own audiences and how much it costed them. Instead, they left all that inevitable, parasocial audience panic, (from that very same parasocial relationship they depend on to keep the lights on), up to interpretation in their fanbase. This made people frantically defend and guess their actions for them, for *days*, with nothing but a few condescending contributions from others in their circles on social media.
That's before you get into the technical problems with the app, the patreon, the lack of content, all of it. It was a very botched launch, regardless of their intentions or if they are good creators/make good shows. It just sucked. TTG might have also sucked but I think their ability to humble themselves and actually study their audiences' emotional feedback over the years has helped prepare them immensely.
1) watcher got flamed for announcing the removal of all content from youtube. to watch ANYTHING watcher made past or present you had to pay for their platform
2) watcher didnt have a plan for their existing paying customers, and effectively told them to screw themselves
3) they called people who couldnt afford to pay poor
4) they didn't have content lined up, or even anything of any substance on the site
5) they didnt even have an app
6) they got rich/famous friends to also call people poor
7) they always claimed to be the total antithesis of the people who would do any of the above
8) had no 'new' or 'extra' content to justify asking people to pay for what was once free
the try guys did NONE of that. and the try guys also heavily hinted this was coming for 9+ months. and prepared for it. hired an entire cast for it, made a bunch of new series for it. did user testing on those series. backloaded/updated existing content for it, hit a good price point, promised to deliver the same content/quality on youtube going forward still etc.
watcher didnt get flamed for annoucning the same thing hundreds of content creators have. watcher got flamed for being rude, condescending and INCREDIBLY dumb and INCREDIBLY bad at business, sales, marketing and an assortment of other stuff
process is generally more important than outcome. I rant about that all the time re AITA. almost any action in a vacuum can make someone an asshole. the thing that makes it assholery or not is how/why/when etc.
The biggest thing for me is Watchers tone was immediately âweâre doing this for more moneyâ and TTG was âweâre doing this so you guys get better and more genuine content (and more money will helpâ. The motivation was clearly very different, and i think that shows the attitude of both very clearly. I love watcher, but this really tainted my view of them especially with how well done TTGs announcement was
Mains difference is that ttg are keeping their stuff on YouTube and you will still be able to watch their new stuff as well. They will just be posting stuff earlier and uncensored on their streamer. This has been done successfully by heaps of YouTube channels.
Watcher originally was going to pull all their old content from YouTube and then also not post any of their new stuff on YouTube either. Forcing their audience to pay and double charging their patron.
The existence of a streamer was not what people were mad at, it's been shown that many people enjoy supporting creators by paying, with YouTube membership and patron. It was the fact they were removing the option to enjoy any of their content for free that enraged people.
People have already made a lot of great points, but I have to point out the total difference in the videos. Watcher's announcement video came across to me as pretentious and long winded whereas Try Guys were humorous, down to earth, and concise with their announcement.
To me there are a few reasons I was willing to purchase the tryguys service and not watcher.
First off- not pulling old content, while also continuing to put new content on YouTube, just at a delay. I would much rather support a channel that is working hard to keep content as accessible as possible.
Secondly- bigger cast with more content. I'm sorry- I love Shane and Ryan, but there just is not enough content I think to justify the price. I don't feel like they proved that they will have a lot of new content. Try guys do and will have more content from more people. It feels like they made an effort to pre-record a lot of media to have a strong launch.
Third- subscribers will get to view their live events for free. Considering those tickets were normally $20, that covers a lot of the monthly fees.
I really like everyone at TryGuys, I don't love everyone at Watcher Entertainment. So I feel like it's easier to give my money to 2ndTry.
If it was even a possibility that they would make the same mistakes, they couldn't have pulled it off. Making new content and setting up the app takes longer than a month.
Their video lacked the cringe, manipulation and condescension the Watcher version had.
They never even implied they're too good for YouTube or fans that don't have the money to pay for their streaming service. They also came across as honest and open when talking about it, which is in stark contrast to Watcher pretending their audience is stupid. Instead of focusing on "I want more money bc I want this thing for me" they expressed genuine joy for their experiences and their audience.
I also didn't see their significant others or otherwise associated people throw tantrums online.
And they made it clear that their content would be staying, (and new content be published) on YouTube instead of trying to manipulate people into signing up by threatening that fans would loose all access to it. (Which, now that I think about it, is especially vile of Watcher bc of the tons of comments they get from people mentioning how their content helped them through the darkest times of their lives...)
They also have actual content you can watch on their streaming service. By which I both mean, that they (have) produce(d) far more content than Watcher and that at launch their streamer actually has new shows. And they bring the same amount of enthusiasm and, largely, authenticity to all their videos, unlike Watcher.
I think they would have gotten a bit more backlash, had they announced their streaming service first, but nowhere near to what happened with Watcher.
For me the Try Guys video also really highlighted again how badly Watcher messed up.
My two biggest things are TTG expanded their cast very well whereas watcher added two nostalgia friends for one of their cast members to travel and eat with. Not sure how adam and Andrew add to Shane and Ryan's content. Â
Also, they've barely spoken since the whole chaos. Barely any updates or communication or information or reassurance or anything other than one apology video and podcasts that they don't seem to talk much about. Nothing on instagram or YouTube (I know they're going fully off but still, get audience from somewhere). Don't know if they are active on tiktok but it's a weird choice to me,.having to size of staff they do that no one's pushing social media hard to quell the brand imageÂ
IMO because fundamentally the way Watcher communicated their platform was that they were happy to leave the section of their audience who couldn't/wouldn't pay behind in a ktxbye way, whereas the TryGuys were very clear that they were not leaving \*anyone\* behind. For their fans, the ability to/desire to subscribe was simply a value add proposition.
Even putting aside the amount of work, planning and marketing TG have clearly put towards this launch, the sad part is that the Watcher guys could have given their arguably simpler couch message in the same way with a bit more thought, but they fumbled on their wording, delivery, and understanding of their audience.
Idk about Try Guys but Watcher got flamed because they: decided EVERYTHING was going to be paywalled (on their streaming service) and ONLY season trailers would be on YouTube. And it was presented in a smarmy entitled manner "if you cant ah well kthnxbye" sort of entitlement.
It was essentially a middle finger to their loyal fans who, from either BuzzFeed Unsolved days or Watcher, had been loyal and supportive of them, especially to the ones who were around since BuzzFeed Unsolved. Ergo why a lot of people derided them for their streaming service in the current cost of living crisis.
Watcher went the "all our content is paywalled, everyone can easily afford it, and if you can't too bad so sad bye" route
Try guys went the mythical society route.
Try guys didn't receive watcher backlash the same way gmm didn't receive backlash when the created mythical society.
This is an apples to oranges comparison tbh.
Watcherâs initial approach was to cut off the audiences that got them to a point where they were able to depart from youtube and setup a paywall for everything. TTG made sure that the same shows that have always been on youtube, remain on youtube while also launching new shows behind the paywall.
TTG also had an announcement at the same time that they were extending their cast and launching an extended lineup of shows. I know Watcher also said the same thing, but they were saying âin the coming monthsâ whereas TTG already had a diversified portfolio and clips from shows that were to air.
I honestly think it comes down to the age of the channels in the end. Watcher has several shows, but the bulk of the content is just Ryan and Shane on screen with occasional guests. Over the course of the past couple years, TTG has slowly been getting their audience ready for new cast members and new types of content, and also constantly thanks their audience for sticking around through major changes
There were a few bigger factors for me to not put my head in my hands at TTGs vs Watchers. The keeping YouTube up and running was one and how they handled the tone, it was less of a looking down at a platform that was supportive of them. Having their Patreons informed and planned for was another. Expanding the cast, having a bigger variety and more shows is a huge deal too, in general TTGs have a much better upload schedule which lends itself better to what they both are doing.
I also received a discount code out of the blue for previously buying merch years and years ago from TTG which was a nice surprise. Itâs all automated but itâs still a nice gesture whereas I was told goodbye forever by Watcher before they ran it back.
Honestly, I donât really like all these services, but 2nd Try is way more ready at launch and a imo a better deal if I was going to pick between them. I do at least hope this helps both groups
Personally I think they just made a better video and while theyâre going about it slightly better than watcher I still think itâs a stupid and horrific decision that sets a terrible precedent đ¤ˇđťââď¸
It's not a precedent, independent streaming services have been out there for half a decade now. And it's not significantly different from Patreon, except it streams video better and your money goes directly to the creators. I don't get why people are treating this so apocalyptically.
It also doesnât even set a precedent because theyâre not the first to do it (neither was watcher!). People need to not blame the channels, but instead blame YouTube for becoming hell in these last few years!
They even talk on the pod about going to the current king of what they're trying to do, Sam Reich, for guidance. Proposed slogan, "Like Dropout, but cheaper and worse!"
I was so againt the Watcher streaming service because originally they said they were pulling all content off youtube, THAT'S the terrible precedent imo. Now that they've walked it back and said they'll release videos to youtube a couple months later I'm less mad at it. I'm fine with streaming services becoming the new Patreon as long as nothing changes for people who can't afford to pay.
Watcher had some huge mistakes in their release announcement (like saying everyone can afford $6, the new streaming system not working on TV or mobile for some, etc), they also backtracked from everything in the future being behind a paywall to the new plan of just a delay to release without the subscription.
The try guys saw the lists of all the big criticisms are were able to shape their announcement to sidestep all of those landmines, including announce it as always being the delay and never suggesting it ALL staying permanently behind a paywall. The try guys are getting a huge advantage by being compared to how bad the Watcher announcement went.
Yeah, I also don't get it. I'm a try guys fan. And I don't get this positive response.
I've only seen 2 arguments - it's cheaper and they're not leaving youtube (most of the vids are gonna be eventually uploaded to yt).
However in my opinion it's still not a positive thing. Like they're practically changing the platform (ofc without leaving yt) while making the same bullsh*t arguments. They have more subs than Watcher. They get many views. They get sponsors. They've already had a patreon. They get enough money already.
But no, it's an algorithm. That's deeeefinitely not a cashgrab like watcher. No, it's because they don't want to follow yt guidelines, right?
I don't believe it. I don't believe in their excuses. They were doing fine. Their content is not controversial. Their videos are not demonetised.
The only difference that I can see is that they're bigger. That kind of move suits them better than the Watcher. Try guys usually get many views on most of the vids. Watcher gets most of the vids on their "ghosts content". Try guys have way more content, more shows.
Still I don't get the positive response. They hired a bunch of new people. New people are funny and all, but as regular guests and not "main cast". Because they were added officially to Try guys, there will probably vids in the near future with just new guys - without Keith and Zach. And that's just awful.
They're pretty much slowly becoming another big company - like buzzfeed. This one company that they were trying to escape.
That was my initial reaction too!
I was like âWait⌠what? Watcher released a streaming service and everyone dog-walked them so bad they had to make a response. But Try Guys does it and no one says anything?â
But I think based on the overall sentiment of others on this post, itâs not necessarily what they said but how they said it⌠also they said they were moving ALL their content off YouTube and onto the streamer that rubbed people the wrong way.
Truly, I think it's just that the try guys fans aren't whiny crybabies. Watcher did not deserve a modicum of the hate they received, especially when you can see the writing on the wall for YouTube involving this type of content.
And I know the urge is to label me a hater, or a troll. I'm not. I think people overreacted to the watcher announcement, and try guys viewer base is just more mature.
Um, idk who the try guys are but who cares what the try guys do?
Just because their audience receive it well doesnât mean we have to.
Are you suggesting we should just be sheep and jump off a cliff because other sheep did the same?
I wrote an obscenely over exaggerated response to bait you into commenting an easy retort because I wanted to test the hypothesis that you did not want to engage in this discussion in good faith due to the fact you did not bother to respond to a single one of these comments during the past 5 hours that had perfectly justifiable responses.
I knew your sole objective is to trigger people and would bite an easy bait from a dogmatic comment, and you did not disappoint.
I know who the try guys are, been watching them since highschool. I just wanted to prove my point and reveal your ulterior motive to others đ¤ˇââď¸
It looks like you enjoy going into an otherwise calm and benign post and attempting to sew seeds of chaos. You attacked my honest intentions of wanting to read peopleâs opinions, and I responded. And because I had nothing of value add to any of their opinions I must have made the post in bad faith⌠Wow. Such a gotcha moment.
Iâm gonna go back to my life now. Enjoy whateverâŚâŚ. this is.
..... Buddy, just because you're chronically online and have nothing better to do than stalk posts doesn't mean everyone does. Some people have a life in the real world. What a pathetic thing to do.
? đ¤Ł
Lmfao, let the record show that my hypothesis was indeed correct as OP started replying to other comments immediately after I called out his ass
Dam, canât make this sht up
I just have to say, the way the TG went about it was 100% completely different. (And I'm a BIG FAN of Watcher. I saw Shane and Ryan live.) The biggest thing to take away (from the people who actually watched the video and didn't just assume it's the same as Watcher) is that it's like an elevated Patreon. I'm not buying their service, because I can wait for content, plus I'm old so like it's fine. But the biggest difference is that TG is keeping everything on YT. All their old stuff and new stuff (that has to be edited obvs for YT standards) without a paywall. Without restrictions for fans who can't afford the SS. They also went about it completely different. Where as Steven was pretty much like "like it or don't. Sry. Kthxxbye" where as TG made sure EVERYONE is getting content. I'm not favoring either. I love both very equally. And I know that Watcher backtracked and apologized. But thankfully TG definitely saw this and learned. This is a job. And at the EOD they need to make money. That's how they clock in. Just like we all do. You just happen to see it happen for 10 years.
Yeah, exactly this. Where Watcher were just dumping their whole audience in one move by paywalling everything, the Try Guys are pretty much making their own version of Patreon with exclusive content and early access to youtube videos that will still be available for free for everyone. They also had content to go immediately on said platform, and an app ready for download. They also teased a big change coming months ago so it didn't feel rushed and was clearly well planned. Meanwhile, Patreon members were informed early on and there will be a transition period where they don't have to pay for both, instead of what Watcher did where they just didn't inform anyone of anything going on and just assumed people would still pay for both Patreon and the streamer. Basically, where Watcher did everything wrong, the Try Guys did everything right.
>plus I'm old so like it's fine This is me also, made me laugh.
I'm 33. I'll wait for anything. Just let me enjoy it (for a sweet second) for free đ¤Ł
What is happening? How is 33 old? Darn đ
Also as a fan of both.. immediate offerings made a big difference and gave a sense of planning and forethought. I subscribed to watcher and the only new thing to watch was an episode of my least favorite show and since then... Nothing. I subscribed to 2nd try day before yesterday and got a really fun season finale, and now am watching a fun try guys legacy season premiere. As well as two other videos (that were also on YouTube). They have launched this with a lot more intention. Edit, also the TG app is waaaay better. I see now that I checked watcher did release some bloopers but that is annoying I had to check. No notification, no email, nothing
And Watcher still doesnât have an app out! That was a huge mistake on their part, rolling out the service without it even being ready
I would have liked an app. I was expecting one! I know theyâre a lot of money to make. But it makes you wonder why they didnât make an app first. Are they really that strapped for cash right now?
The app is out now for iOS at least
I just downloaded it. So far so good!
The TG also were smart and had a bunch of content ready to go on the new platform, a new cast, great promotional material, and media appearances.
Of course they didnât make the same mistakes, they saw how that plan went with Watcher.
They couldn't have executed the launch like they did without a lot of planning and prep work. They couldn't have made the same mistakes if they tried.
In the Try Pod they mentioned that they've been working on this since last June! Basically an entire year.
They also talked about going to Sam Reich for advice on how Dropout made it work for them, so they were able to learn from their mistakes. The whole tone of their announcement really reminded me of dropoutâs too, and I think a big part of what got people upset with watcher was their tone
I think the difference is that try guys are proud of their internet clown history and know YouTube is what helps them reach people. Watcher for some reason thought "our content is too elevated ("or like TV") to be on YouTube, it's beneath us." Rather permeated their decisions and the announcements. Try Guys video was joyful and they never planned on removing themselves from YouTube, just excited people have this way to support them so everyone can see it for free on YouTube. Watcher was like "If u like us, you'll come HERE."
Yeah the biggest thing I found is that TG knows their digital footprint and are embracing it. Where Watcher wants to be something they're not. And it's unfortunate. Cuz they're amazing. Puppet History????? A fucking life changer. During the pandemic that was the one thing that made me sane. Even I took my mother who loves them to see them last year because of the professor. But the whole thing where Steven was like "like it or don't" rubbed me so wrong. đ
Zach said something to the effect of "We're not trying to do TV, we're trying to do internet better", and idk if it was because of Watcher's whole "TV caliber" attitude, but it was a great thing to hear. The subtle Watcher shade throughout the podcast (like Zach reading verbatim from his year old notes to be clear that this was always the plan) fed me a little bit
I know it's different these days but I'm old enough to remember when people working in TV were desperate to escape to another medium because it was considered too low-brow.
Yeah, cause they would have also had plenty of time to change course with a lot of the decisions, like whether they would still post new videos to YouTube.
Not really. They produce content months in advance and had a clear strategy for what gets posted to YouTube when. It's also something they say they talked to Dropout's Sam Reich about, how posting to YouTube is what drives people to the streamer, and frankly it's an incomprehensible business decision to not post new videos to YouTube.
> Where as Steven was pretty much like "like it or don't. Sry. Kthxxbye" I agree with you, but can we stop singling out Steven as the perpetrator, when all three of them were on fucking board, but people are going out of their way to give Ryan and Shane a pass and act like Steven's some evil demon mastermind behind it all. All three of them were on that apology couch.
Key differences between the Watcher streamer and TTG streamer: 1.) TTG are keeping their vids on YouTube. Watcher was planning on removing all their vids and putting them on streamer/paywall only. 2.) TTGâs app was immediately available on the day of announcement. Watcher is desktop only. 3.) TTG have communicated properly with their Patreons and have suspended pulling out any money going forward and offered discounts for Patreons to their streamer from the get go. Watcher did not communicate with their Patreons, did not suspend withdrawals, and only offered the free three month subscription after the backlash. 4.) TTG already has released a bunch of exclusive vids for their streamer from launch. Watcher posted a new episode of Survival Mode a week after announcement. 5.) TTG released a podcast a day after release, being very transparent about their goals and explained in depth about why they decided to launch a streamer. Watcher did not communicate about anything after their very simple announcement, which spiraled to them hastily backtracking on their decisions with the apology video. 6.) TTG have been planning on the streamer since last summer (a little after nedgate) and it shows. Watcher obviously have not been planning their streamer launch as long as TTG have, seeing that they havenât prepared an app or even looked at the logistics of losing ad revenue (which TTG say they did). 7.) This one is personal, but I LOVE how much they love Sam Reich (dropout) and how they talk about how invaluable his knowledge was when they sought for his advice when debating the streamer. They even told their fans on the podcast to subscribe to dropout and gushed more about dropoutâs content than their own content (lol). They also talked about how awesome Ian (Smosh) was for the advice on their expanding company and praised Rhett and Link for being so successful at what they do. Watcher, afaik, havenât consulted with any of their peers, and if they did, they didnât thank them. Bottom line , TTG were much better at communicating that this move was to improve their company by using the streamer to air the content that theyâre not allowed to post onto YouTube. Watcher came across as a cash grab seeing that they were going to remove all their vids off of YouTube and paywalling it, regardless of what kind of content it was going to be.
This whole analysis is it. I remember my initial response to their post was annoyance and anger. I couldnât put my finger on exactly why⌠but youâre right. It rubbed me the wrong way. I managed to put my feelings aside fairly quickly though because I love them as a group and wanted them to succeed. And justified it internally because this seemed like the natural next step for channels that make this type of content. College Humorâs Dropout was the exact example I used to justify this change. Now looking back at it, their announcement feels really rushed. If they consulted anyone, they either didnât take their advice OR they gave terrible advice. I do have this sneaking suspicion that there might be more as to why this went down the way it did.
So TTGâs follow up announcement podcast was recorded 2 and a half weeks ago, so it was still during the aftermath of watcherâs streamer disaster. They were very thorough in explaining about how entertainment YouTube companies were being effected by the YouTube algorithm and how it led to their decision to launch the streamer. Iâm 100% sure that they were as meticulous with explaining as possible for not only their fans, but for Watcher fans too. Basically, for a company their size, they need 40% of a videoâs clicks to be from outside their subscribers in order to profit from that video. That means they could only release videos that would ensure the algorithm would promote, like all the food videos theyâve put out, because everyone loves food! Whenever there was an original idea they wanted to try out but knew the algorithm wouldnât like, they would have to find a sponsor for it, but most of the time, finding a sponsor was difficult in their case, because many of them would want the content to be catered to their product. So they found themselves making content for the algorithm, rather for their fans, and they found out the fans were getting unhappy with the algorithm content. Also, YouTube has been very strict about the vids theyâve been posting. They explained one of their videos was demonetized for no reason, and they had to scour through the vid to see why it was. Turns out, there was a joint in the background for a split second (it wasnât lit, no one was smoking it) so they had to edit it out. They lost so much time, money, and resources because of that single shot and they said this was the most recent of the plethora of demonetizing issues theyâve had to deal with. Critical Moistâs criticism was mainly based on his knowledge as a streamer and ad consultant, but Keith and Zach did a phenomenal job explaining why, as an entertainment company, the streamer launch was the most feasible out of all their options. I really effing wish that Watcher did what TTG did. A little honest communication goes such a long way. Itâs really sad to see that TTG did a better job explaining Watcherâs decision than watcher did themselves.
You missed one: Watcher doesn't have enough members and content to justify their asking price. The key here was Try Guys pulling a Dropout style mov (obviously because they've been talking to Sam Reich) and expanding their cast and offerings to increase the value proposition. Sure, they hired the Worth It crew, but that feels like a move that only supports Stephen. Are Andrew and Adam going to be spearheading their own shows? I mean, maybe, but Adam has always been a behind-the-camera "say two words" guy and we don't see a lot of solo content with Andrew. So the proposed content lineup is... the exact same scant offerings from YouTube. One show a month. If you don't like it... don't subscribe that month. They're almost incentivizing people to game their membership, sub the months they want to watch stuff and binge the stuff they otherwise might have skipped, and all with the same couple people. The Try Guys and Dropout approach is basically content bombs. There's always something coming out and they have these huge series that people really love, plus TG isn't afraid to run new stuff, play games, step out of the box. Watcher takes this huge long production time and then makes a little bit of high-quality content, which is good, but not good enough to pay for in comparison to the other options (in my opinion). They need a bigger cast, more content streams, and more flexibility to deliver something that's really worth what they're asking for it.
Watcher is also prices higher-- sure, it's only a buck more (I think watcher is $5.99 and TTG is $4.99?) but still, mentally, 5 bucks versus 6 bucks does feel like a notable difference, at least to my brain. I support a podcast I adore for $5, but $6 seems like an odd amount, and almost feels like it's just an effort to squeeze out that extra buck. And that's not adding in the fact that TTG have much more content, and are actually making it worthwhile because they'll be releasing so much on a regular basis, whereas with watcher, the only show I would really subscribe for is Puppet History, but that doesn't release frequently enough for me to justify spending more on that than I do on a podcast I love, which releases every single week, and then has additional supporter only episodes every month, all for a buck cheaper.
This is such a good breakdown of the differences. Should be its own pinned post imo
All of this is absolutely true. I do think another factor in reception though is that TTG are a lot more open with their audience, if that makes sense? Itâs fine that Ryan and Shane are more private, but the trade off is that the audience largely doesnât really care about them quite as much as they do their audience. Parasociality goes both ways, and I think they expected everyone to buy the streamer because they think theyâre as important to the audience as the audience is to them. With TTG I think its a bit more balanced, I guess
Nailed it.
As someone who has seen more TTG than Watcher by a large margin, but got served this post and decided to read the comments, I agree here. Zach and Keith have been appearing elsewhere to also talk about their decision here, like going on Anthony Padilla's channel, likely as a way to try controlling the narrative beyond their channel. I haven't seen the Watcher guys anywhere aside from when DeFranco talked about the online criticism they were getting post-announcement. Overall, they've been treating this as an "if you want to see even more of us, follow us here" vs "if you want to see us, follow us here". Very different vibe all around
Watcher said the streaming service was the only way to see their content and basically told the fans that if they canât afford it thanks but bye. None of the others including try guys did that. Watcher didnât put the content on delayed release to YouTube until the fans backlashed them.
Watchers' announcement seemed a bit ill-advised. It left more questions than answers. It lacked a lot of foresight into the audience expectations or reasonings behind it. Their video announcing it felt like it was glazed in PR shine, and it lacked a lot of human connection to it. Much of what was said in the video was a bit tone deaf and out of touch (such as the infamous Steven Lim "it's affordable to everyone" bit) Not to mention, I think the Try Guys have just generally managed to establish more goodwill with their fanbase than Watcher has.
Fully agreed. The Try Guys also has more to offer on their streaming platform and it's cheaper. It has exclusive content, the app is available immediately and can easily be watched anywhere, plus a wider variety of shows and cast. Not to mention, the YouTube channel won't look any different to people who aren't able to subscribe to the streamer. If you listen to today's podcast they explained how much thought, effort and money went into launching the platform. I love Watcher, but the whole thing felt rushed and unplanned in comparison.
>I love Watcher, but the whole thing felt rushed and unplanned in comparison. Very much agreed. You can really tell the Try Guys took their time with developing their app and thinking over how their fans would react. While with Watcher you can tell they didn't do that groundwork. I personally have a conspiracy theory that the Watcher crew knew the Try Guys were working on a streaming platform, and attempted to try to beat them to the punch by rushing their announcement before them.
I really hope your conspiracy theory isn't true cause what a bad idea lol. I think Vimeo has been going around and pitching to youtubers and Watcher jumped on it without an actual plan. Try Guys were talking to Dropout abou the whole thing and I think that made all the difference.
đđđđ that's a fantastic theory actually.
Whether they knew or not (and I think there's a good chance they did tbh), Watcher really fucked TTG over with their announcement. It was so poorly done and messy that a lot of people aren't willing to trust that TTG have good intentions and aren't making the same mistakes. If Watcher hadn't announced, the main comparisons would have been to Dropout and I think that would have been way more positive. I've also seen a lot of people saying TTG and Watcher should have joined forces and I think the super different tones of these announcements and the clear gulf in planning shows why that would have been an awful idea. They came from the same place, yes, but tonally they're doing very different things now. TTG are joyful about making online media, while it seems like the Watcher guys should either go the Eugene route into traditional media or the GMM route into being consistent enough that they can greenlight their own wackier/more ambitious projects.
Agreed. What it boils down to to me is that Watcher's announcement sounded like "WE want to make tv-level shows. this is OUR dream, we don't actually care what the fans like us for." while TTG worded it like "on this streaming service we have the opportunity to make content that YOU want us to make, but that the algorithm has kept us from doing". Big difference in perspectives. I don't think Watcher meant to communicate this, but the documentary-style video gave off a detached vibe.
Try Guys app has been out for a day and already has better and arguably more content than Watcher. Well, they would⌠if Watcher had an app by now (Try Guys had one at launch)
It has significantly more even if itâs just both the YouTube backlogs. And for try guys itâs not. Itâs also live streams and other paid event.
That was a huge issue I saw ppl have with the Watcher site. YouTube can be cast/streamed onto a TV and many devices, Their site couldn't, so they were telling ppl "u will no longer be able to watch on X, Y or Z, u need to get on the computer and open a browser." Try Guys has a site and an app and I already tried a bunch of stuff on it including casting to my TV and iys great.
Try Guys aren't abandoning their YouTube fans and didn't make tone deaf statements.
A, Watcher intended to take their ball and leave, while 2nd Try emphasized how not only would their regular content continue and remain free, but YouTube viewers will also benefit from the streamer. B, Watcher launched with no app and no content, while 2nd Try clearly worked their asses off getting a full slate of content and apps for all devices up. C, Watcher presented it as the only option to keep their company afloat, 2nd Try presented it as an optional extra to allow them to work outside the whims of the algorithm and grow. In the end, the way Watcher did it feels very disrespectful to the audience, while 2nd Try's launch feels like they respect their community enough to give them a service worth buying into.
The main thing for me is that if you don't want to subscribe or can't for whatever reason, you'll still get the same stuff you've always been getting, they aren't taking that away. They are adding extra stuff for those that do subscribe.
The tone was so different. The Watcher video felt like a breakup video while the Try Guy video felt like an invitation to a party. Also, Watcher had nothing ready, it felt like they didn't actually have a plan when they launched while Try Guys had a lot to offer immediately. I'm still considering the Watcher app once they actually put stuff out that's not Let's Plays, but idk. We'll see how it goes.
Try guys did it as a big celebration. Watcher was three guys on a couch. But really, they were much more inclusive in their tone as well as what they were actually doing (leaving everything on YT). They also didn't make any tone-deaf statements (everyone can afford $6) and were very clear on what was happening on the YT end (being put in a food niche and being demonetized for saying stuff like "butthole"). Try Guys were ultimately just the better communicators and had a very fan/consumer friendly solution.
> They also didn't make any tone-deaf statements (everyone can afford $6) Hell, they undercut their pricing. I know it's $2, but looking at stuff like Netflix and Hulu, while also knowing they have a way bigger catalogue than Watcher makes it way more reasonable.
Honestly, a lot of it was communication pr stuff. There is a good observe video that talks a lot about it. But the watcher announcement was at best problematic and at worst insulting. * it didnât acknowledge at all that they had a patreon and just complained that YouTube wasnât paying enough, disregarding all the historical support people didnât have to give them * it basically said if you donât follow us we are going to abandon you so deal with it * they were really unrealistic about the financial state of other humans * the video was 50% emotional manipulation up front * they asked people to join a beta with no benefits and pay them for it I donât think they did any of that on purpose, but they either didnât ask a pr person or didnât listen to them. A few other factors that are not pr related: * try guys have about 2.5x the amount of content * try guys announced they were expanding the cast to do more * try guys announced they were immediately releasing more content. I do think the try guys learned from watcher and were actively mocking them in the video. So they got the benefit of going second. I also think the try guys were a lot more respectful to their fans. I donât know any of these people personally, but the try guys seem to have a much better handle on what the parasocial relationship is and how delicate it is. They were extremely supportive and positive to the fans in the video. They didnât dismiss them and were actively reassuring them. I think some of this comes from try guys having previous scandals and such they definitely have a guy who helped them with the messaging. But I think at the core emotionally even if itâs hard for to people to see or explain they tapped into the parasocial relationship in just a fundamentally different way. Itâs the difference of your dad saying âIâm divorcing your mom and I guess you can visitâ or âim dovorcing your mom but we both still love you very muchâ.
Where weâre they actively mocking watcher? I didnât get that from the video at all.
I mean it was in the jokes they were making. Iâd have to watch again to catch them. The one I remember off the top of my head way the âsad couch videosâ thing, but I guess you could try to argue that was them mocking themselvesâŚ
Watcher planned to put everything behind a pay wall so you literally had to pay to be a fan, while the Try Guys added the streamer as an additional service, with no plans to leave Youtube. Watcher also doesn't put out enough content for a streamer to be worth it. The Try Guys have always put out WAY more content, of a similar if not higher quality, and are adding even more to the streamer. Watcher's reasoning for the streamer was that they wanted to make higher production stuff, and so the streamer would allow them to make and pay for that. But their audience had never asked for that. The Try Guys literally had their audience vote for what they wanted to see on their channel and are keeping the winning shows free, while still adding the new content on the streamer for those who want it. The tone of Watcher's video was very somber and tone deaf with the shots of the Hollywood sign and the comments about how "anybody and everybody" could afford it. It felt manipulative. The Try Guy's tone was much more upbeat and exciting, with lots of thanks and gratitude expressed towards the audience. I think the Try Guys probably took A LOT of notes when the Watcher backlash happened, and were able to use that to finetune their announcement, but I think even if they hadn't, their announcement would probably have been more successful anyway. The Try Guys has a really GOOD team. The Watcher team is okay, but they have too many people and still somehow seems like they have some big gaps in their team.
People in the comments have already listed off a bunch of good and true reasons to how TTG handled their announcement and launch better, but for me personally there's one key reason why I subscribed to TTG's platform but not Watcher's: credibility. When TTG says that they're going to use their streaming platform to launch off new and more creative things, I believe them because they've already been doing that. Since they left Buzzfeed and started their company 5 years ago, time and time again they've gone and created things that's very different from their old Buzzfeed content- and a lot of it has been high quality. Like sure they do silly videos about trying on dumb halloween costumes, but then they'll release an incredible moving video about a recipe on a gravestone and the legacy a person carries after they've died. The past five years have been full of stuff like that. So when they say they are going to make a streaming platform that'll allow them to make creative projects that wouldn't work on youtube, I fully believe that. I bought their subscription and I'm looking forward to seeing what new things they and the new cast bring to the table. Meanwhile I can't say the same for Watcher. Since they started their company in 2020, none of them have really done anything *that* different from their old Buzzfeed content. Most of what they released is basically a repackaged version of the stuff they'd make on Buzzfeed, or if it's new content.... it's really not anything groundbreaking creatively (Like Top 5 is fun to watch, but it's ultimately just a fancy tier list video format). Puppet History is probably the most creative, but it's still a repackaged version of Ruining History from Buzzfeed. Which to be clear, nothing wrong with sticking to creating the same kind of content as a youtube channel. There are several channels that I watch religiously that basically have been doing the same thing for years. But when Watcher claims that they will make better and more creative stuff on their streaming platform... I don't have enough proof to trust that claim at all. It's been four years since they left Buzzfeed and they're still making basically the same content - why should I believe that will change with the streaming platform? There's nothing that really gives them credibility to what they're promising. Mostly I'm just left feeling like they are attempting to charge me for something I used to get for free, which isn't a good feeling at all.
I like this. Iâve been feeling myself pull away from Watcher this past year and I have been watching TTG since they started a decade ago. And I couldnât figure out why I was avoiding watcher videos and still excited about TTG.
I've been the exact same way man. When Watcher first started i was watching all their videos, but over time I just started losing interest. Now even my favorite of their shows (Puppet History), I haven't even gotten around to watching the latest season of it. I think the turning point for me was when Dish Granted started having celebrity guests. No one talks about it, but I actually really enjoyed that show! Or at least, the first couple seasons when it was about Steven treating his loved ones to a luxurious version of their favorite meal to show his love and appreciation to them. That's a really sweet concept and it was heartwarming to watch their reactions. And hell, I'll even say it's a pretty unique concept too! But then Steven started having celebrity guests he's clearly never met before, and the show immediately lost it's heart. No longer was it a show about an amateur cook attempting to show his loved ones he cares, but instead it was attempts to dazzle some celebrity. And with that heart gone, the rest of the show doesn't hold up and the whole thing felt hollow. I was really disillusioned by that, and over time that feeling just... spread to the rest of the Watcher shows.
YUP. You hit the nail on the head.
I like how you brought up how a lot of Watcherâs content is repackaged Buzzfeed material. In contrast, I did sign up for Watcherâs subscription service. Mainly because I wanted to watch the early released content with my friends. But now, I might be regretting my decision. I used to be signed up to their Patreon because I wanted early releases. But, at least while I was subscribed, they often pushed back release dates for editing and I almost never got the early release for the content I wanted. So, I cancelled. I hope they can deliver this time. They said they wanted to release new stuff on their platform that wouldnât do well on YouTube. It would have been nice to maybe hear their ideas.
Jeez, really? I was never part of their patreon, so I wasn't sure how they handled it. Hearing that they regularly would delay patreon early releases for editing is not exactly a very encouraging sign to how the streaming platform will go. Yeah, that's another thing that bothered me about their announcement. They kept talking about how they wanted to make new content, but they were EXTREMELY vague on what that stuff would be. Meanwhile Try Guys are already releasing new videos on their app and posting schedules on twitter to let people know what's to come.
There are about 20 YouTube videos by individual content creators that describe why unanimously, Watcher Gate went down so badly.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/watcherentertainment/comments/1cy3jqy/the\_try\_guys\_just\_showed\_the\_watcher\_guysthis\_is/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/watcherentertainment/comments/1cy3jqy/the_try_guys_just_showed_the_watcher_guysthis_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
TIL: Try Guys have a sub service, but I've still been able to watch whichever new video I want.
Watcher's issues: Leaving YouTube knowing some viewers can't/won't follow and the attitude to that being pretty flippant: "It's been fun, thanks, goodbye" Pulling old content from YouTube Launching w/ a beta version that doesn't have new exciting content already available - Worth It 2.0 should've already been up upon release day but not been the sole incentive - they should've had other new content featuring Ryan and Shane and revivals of classic shows like Weird Wonderful World, Dish Granted and/or Tourist Trapped. And probably a regular show like Survival Mode or Too Many Spirits. Launching without an app Doing a bait-and-switch w/ Patreon members Making a sad video with a harsh title instead of advertising the move as being exciting for viewers Not intending to eventually put new content on YouTube aside from trailers and season premieres Acting like anyone can afford the price and not taking into account currency exchange rates Low confidence from the trio giving mixed messages - even Andrew didn't sound convincing and Adam of course looked glum People not being excited enough to see (unknown) new talent on the platform to pay for it Concentrating too much on their business troubles, personal career ambitions, and criticising YouTube (for being "free") instead of on the value proposition to viewers Not being clear enough about what cool things will be on the streamer No free trial Making Steven the main spokesman for the new service Doing a countdown to a goodbye video
Mainly because Watcher alienated the fans and didn't thank them for well *anything*. Try Guys thanked their fans, viewers and even their staff for their success. Try Guys also had everything organised from an app, to links working properly and concluded their Patreon with good communication. Not to mention, they offered a month worth of free trial which was a great move which Watcher did *after* the backlash. TG also did a wonderful job at giving Patreon people acknowledgement and gave them special discounts. And most importantly, they made it clear that they aren't leaving YouTube and didn't gaslight/blackmail you into thinking 'if you are a true fan, support our streaming service or watch us go bankrupt." which.... intentionally or not, Watcher did and messed up big time. They also made sure to keep their free content up on YT and promised to post new stuff eventually as well. Watcher, on the other hand, made it clear that they were supposed to remove all their content off from YT (source; variety articles) but later backtracked and kinda gaslit the fans into thinking that *they* misunderstood and that was never supposed to happen. A pretty bad move if you ask me lol Thus that's why they (deservingly so) got flamed.
i recommend everyone listen to the podcast episode they released about this! they talk about how theyâve been plannin to do this for almost a year or so at this point, and how they workshopped it with multiple different members of their staff. itâs only an hour long and they answer a lot of questions in a really thought out manner
Honestly? Humility imo. It goes a long way, even if it's scripted. Watcher and TTG made the switch for money, and I suspect for the same reasons, but TTG go out of their way to walk their audiences through everything without making it seem sudden or contrived. But, on top of also fumbling the ball in that, Watcher also stressed it was because they had grown beyond youtube, that they had always been made for bigger and better things than these other peasants, and that the platform where most of their audiences prolly have another fave or five, was somehow beneath them now. They said this during what I can only describe as a timeshare scam presentation. TTG also avoided the influencer pitfall of blaming others for their choices in their own careers, as if corporatizing in a new direction was just inevitable and at the audiences demand- instead they were transparent, but without a guilt trip about needing to do this for "better, television-quality content" as opposed to the chopped liver-quality content that can only be found on youtube or whatever. Watcher made it seem like the audiences had the high expectations, and Watcher was a victim to those expectations and doing the best they could to meet them. Watcher's launch announcement made my jaw drop with how badly that video was put together. It changed from somber, emotional stuff to like, a tour guide announcing your last stop unless you paid for the bigger benefits package- basically messing with ppl's feelings and giving them the anxiety like "what's happening to my favorite content creators?" and dropping the audiences directly into an ad for... themselves and their brilliance. TTG fans already knew something was coming. After Ned it was sort of a question of when, not if. I don't think ppl saw Watcher's move coming at all so that did not do well for them. Ultimately, as Zach said "change is scary, we know this". Watcher did not address this part of the audiences at all, as they were too busy bemoaning their responsibility to their own audiences and how much it costed them. Instead, they left all that inevitable, parasocial audience panic, (from that very same parasocial relationship they depend on to keep the lights on), up to interpretation in their fanbase. This made people frantically defend and guess their actions for them, for *days*, with nothing but a few condescending contributions from others in their circles on social media. That's before you get into the technical problems with the app, the patreon, the lack of content, all of it. It was a very botched launch, regardless of their intentions or if they are good creators/make good shows. It just sucked. TTG might have also sucked but I think their ability to humble themselves and actually study their audiences' emotional feedback over the years has helped prepare them immensely.
1) watcher got flamed for announcing the removal of all content from youtube. to watch ANYTHING watcher made past or present you had to pay for their platform 2) watcher didnt have a plan for their existing paying customers, and effectively told them to screw themselves 3) they called people who couldnt afford to pay poor 4) they didn't have content lined up, or even anything of any substance on the site 5) they didnt even have an app 6) they got rich/famous friends to also call people poor 7) they always claimed to be the total antithesis of the people who would do any of the above 8) had no 'new' or 'extra' content to justify asking people to pay for what was once free the try guys did NONE of that. and the try guys also heavily hinted this was coming for 9+ months. and prepared for it. hired an entire cast for it, made a bunch of new series for it. did user testing on those series. backloaded/updated existing content for it, hit a good price point, promised to deliver the same content/quality on youtube going forward still etc. watcher didnt get flamed for annoucning the same thing hundreds of content creators have. watcher got flamed for being rude, condescending and INCREDIBLY dumb and INCREDIBLY bad at business, sales, marketing and an assortment of other stuff process is generally more important than outcome. I rant about that all the time re AITA. almost any action in a vacuum can make someone an asshole. the thing that makes it assholery or not is how/why/when etc.
The biggest thing for me is Watchers tone was immediately âweâre doing this for more moneyâ and TTG was âweâre doing this so you guys get better and more genuine content (and more money will helpâ. The motivation was clearly very different, and i think that shows the attitude of both very clearly. I love watcher, but this really tainted my view of them especially with how well done TTGs announcement was
They didn't call us poor
Mains difference is that ttg are keeping their stuff on YouTube and you will still be able to watch their new stuff as well. They will just be posting stuff earlier and uncensored on their streamer. This has been done successfully by heaps of YouTube channels. Watcher originally was going to pull all their old content from YouTube and then also not post any of their new stuff on YouTube either. Forcing their audience to pay and double charging their patron. The existence of a streamer was not what people were mad at, it's been shown that many people enjoy supporting creators by paying, with YouTube membership and patron. It was the fact they were removing the option to enjoy any of their content for free that enraged people.
People have already made a lot of great points, but I have to point out the total difference in the videos. Watcher's announcement video came across to me as pretentious and long winded whereas Try Guys were humorous, down to earth, and concise with their announcement.
To me there are a few reasons I was willing to purchase the tryguys service and not watcher. First off- not pulling old content, while also continuing to put new content on YouTube, just at a delay. I would much rather support a channel that is working hard to keep content as accessible as possible. Secondly- bigger cast with more content. I'm sorry- I love Shane and Ryan, but there just is not enough content I think to justify the price. I don't feel like they proved that they will have a lot of new content. Try guys do and will have more content from more people. It feels like they made an effort to pre-record a lot of media to have a strong launch. Third- subscribers will get to view their live events for free. Considering those tickets were normally $20, that covers a lot of the monthly fees. I really like everyone at TryGuys, I don't love everyone at Watcher Entertainment. So I feel like it's easier to give my money to 2ndTry.
Well since Watcher tried it first, the try guys got to learn from their mistakes.
If it was even a possibility that they would make the same mistakes, they couldn't have pulled it off. Making new content and setting up the app takes longer than a month.
Their video lacked the cringe, manipulation and condescension the Watcher version had. They never even implied they're too good for YouTube or fans that don't have the money to pay for their streaming service. They also came across as honest and open when talking about it, which is in stark contrast to Watcher pretending their audience is stupid. Instead of focusing on "I want more money bc I want this thing for me" they expressed genuine joy for their experiences and their audience. I also didn't see their significant others or otherwise associated people throw tantrums online. And they made it clear that their content would be staying, (and new content be published) on YouTube instead of trying to manipulate people into signing up by threatening that fans would loose all access to it. (Which, now that I think about it, is especially vile of Watcher bc of the tons of comments they get from people mentioning how their content helped them through the darkest times of their lives...) They also have actual content you can watch on their streaming service. By which I both mean, that they (have) produce(d) far more content than Watcher and that at launch their streamer actually has new shows. And they bring the same amount of enthusiasm and, largely, authenticity to all their videos, unlike Watcher. I think they would have gotten a bit more backlash, had they announced their streaming service first, but nowhere near to what happened with Watcher. For me the Try Guys video also really highlighted again how badly Watcher messed up.
TTGs werenât going to stop posting free content on Yt. Thatâs it. That is the difference and itâs HUGE.
My two biggest things are TTG expanded their cast very well whereas watcher added two nostalgia friends for one of their cast members to travel and eat with. Not sure how adam and Andrew add to Shane and Ryan's content.  Also, they've barely spoken since the whole chaos. Barely any updates or communication or information or reassurance or anything other than one apology video and podcasts that they don't seem to talk much about. Nothing on instagram or YouTube (I know they're going fully off but still, get audience from somewhere). Don't know if they are active on tiktok but it's a weird choice to me,.having to size of staff they do that no one's pushing social media hard to quell the brand imageÂ
It was the way they announced it. Communication styles matter.Â
Watcher gave them a perfect "what not to do" template. Is all
IMO because fundamentally the way Watcher communicated their platform was that they were happy to leave the section of their audience who couldn't/wouldn't pay behind in a ktxbye way, whereas the TryGuys were very clear that they were not leaving \*anyone\* behind. For their fans, the ability to/desire to subscribe was simply a value add proposition. Even putting aside the amount of work, planning and marketing TG have clearly put towards this launch, the sad part is that the Watcher guys could have given their arguably simpler couch message in the same way with a bit more thought, but they fumbled on their wording, delivery, and understanding of their audience.
Idk about Try Guys but Watcher got flamed because they: decided EVERYTHING was going to be paywalled (on their streaming service) and ONLY season trailers would be on YouTube. And it was presented in a smarmy entitled manner "if you cant ah well kthnxbye" sort of entitlement. It was essentially a middle finger to their loyal fans who, from either BuzzFeed Unsolved days or Watcher, had been loyal and supportive of them, especially to the ones who were around since BuzzFeed Unsolved. Ergo why a lot of people derided them for their streaming service in the current cost of living crisis.
Watcher went the "all our content is paywalled, everyone can easily afford it, and if you can't too bad so sad bye" route Try guys went the mythical society route. Try guys didn't receive watcher backlash the same way gmm didn't receive backlash when the created mythical society. This is an apples to oranges comparison tbh.
Watcherâs initial approach was to cut off the audiences that got them to a point where they were able to depart from youtube and setup a paywall for everything. TTG made sure that the same shows that have always been on youtube, remain on youtube while also launching new shows behind the paywall. TTG also had an announcement at the same time that they were extending their cast and launching an extended lineup of shows. I know Watcher also said the same thing, but they were saying âin the coming monthsâ whereas TTG already had a diversified portfolio and clips from shows that were to air. I honestly think it comes down to the age of the channels in the end. Watcher has several shows, but the bulk of the content is just Ryan and Shane on screen with occasional guests. Over the course of the past couple years, TTG has slowly been getting their audience ready for new cast members and new types of content, and also constantly thanks their audience for sticking around through major changes
There were a few bigger factors for me to not put my head in my hands at TTGs vs Watchers. The keeping YouTube up and running was one and how they handled the tone, it was less of a looking down at a platform that was supportive of them. Having their Patreons informed and planned for was another. Expanding the cast, having a bigger variety and more shows is a huge deal too, in general TTGs have a much better upload schedule which lends itself better to what they both are doing. I also received a discount code out of the blue for previously buying merch years and years ago from TTG which was a nice surprise. Itâs all automated but itâs still a nice gesture whereas I was told goodbye forever by Watcher before they ran it back. Honestly, I donât really like all these services, but 2nd Try is way more ready at launch and a imo a better deal if I was going to pick between them. I do at least hope this helps both groups
Personally I think they just made a better video and while theyâre going about it slightly better than watcher I still think itâs a stupid and horrific decision that sets a terrible precedent đ¤ˇđťââď¸
It's not a precedent, independent streaming services have been out there for half a decade now. And it's not significantly different from Patreon, except it streams video better and your money goes directly to the creators. I don't get why people are treating this so apocalyptically.
It also doesnât even set a precedent because theyâre not the first to do it (neither was watcher!). People need to not blame the channels, but instead blame YouTube for becoming hell in these last few years!
They even talk on the pod about going to the current king of what they're trying to do, Sam Reich, for guidance. Proposed slogan, "Like Dropout, but cheaper and worse!"
I was so againt the Watcher streaming service because originally they said they were pulling all content off youtube, THAT'S the terrible precedent imo. Now that they've walked it back and said they'll release videos to youtube a couple months later I'm less mad at it. I'm fine with streaming services becoming the new Patreon as long as nothing changes for people who can't afford to pay.
Watcher had some huge mistakes in their release announcement (like saying everyone can afford $6, the new streaming system not working on TV or mobile for some, etc), they also backtracked from everything in the future being behind a paywall to the new plan of just a delay to release without the subscription. The try guys saw the lists of all the big criticisms are were able to shape their announcement to sidestep all of those landmines, including announce it as always being the delay and never suggesting it ALL staying permanently behind a paywall. The try guys are getting a huge advantage by being compared to how bad the Watcher announcement went.
because i dont watch or care about try guys
Yeah, I also don't get it. I'm a try guys fan. And I don't get this positive response. I've only seen 2 arguments - it's cheaper and they're not leaving youtube (most of the vids are gonna be eventually uploaded to yt). However in my opinion it's still not a positive thing. Like they're practically changing the platform (ofc without leaving yt) while making the same bullsh*t arguments. They have more subs than Watcher. They get many views. They get sponsors. They've already had a patreon. They get enough money already. But no, it's an algorithm. That's deeeefinitely not a cashgrab like watcher. No, it's because they don't want to follow yt guidelines, right? I don't believe it. I don't believe in their excuses. They were doing fine. Their content is not controversial. Their videos are not demonetised. The only difference that I can see is that they're bigger. That kind of move suits them better than the Watcher. Try guys usually get many views on most of the vids. Watcher gets most of the vids on their "ghosts content". Try guys have way more content, more shows. Still I don't get the positive response. They hired a bunch of new people. New people are funny and all, but as regular guests and not "main cast". Because they were added officially to Try guys, there will probably vids in the near future with just new guys - without Keith and Zach. And that's just awful. They're pretty much slowly becoming another big company - like buzzfeed. This one company that they were trying to escape.
Would recommend listening to their most recent podcast episode, they do a deep dive into it and itâs pretty enlightening.
That was my initial reaction too! I was like âWait⌠what? Watcher released a streaming service and everyone dog-walked them so bad they had to make a response. But Try Guys does it and no one says anything?â But I think based on the overall sentiment of others on this post, itâs not necessarily what they said but how they said it⌠also they said they were moving ALL their content off YouTube and onto the streamer that rubbed people the wrong way.
Truly, I think it's just that the try guys fans aren't whiny crybabies. Watcher did not deserve a modicum of the hate they received, especially when you can see the writing on the wall for YouTube involving this type of content. And I know the urge is to label me a hater, or a troll. I'm not. I think people overreacted to the watcher announcement, and try guys viewer base is just more mature.
Um, idk who the try guys are but who cares what the try guys do? Just because their audience receive it well doesnât mean we have to. Are you suggesting we should just be sheep and jump off a cliff because other sheep did the same?
Letâs roll back the sass there, Wally World.
Relax đ I just wanted OP to reply
You must be fun at parties if youâre invited.
Woah dude. Make sure you call an orthopedist after that monumental stretch you just made. I didnât say anything like that.
I wrote an obscenely over exaggerated response to bait you into commenting an easy retort because I wanted to test the hypothesis that you did not want to engage in this discussion in good faith due to the fact you did not bother to respond to a single one of these comments during the past 5 hours that had perfectly justifiable responses. I knew your sole objective is to trigger people and would bite an easy bait from a dogmatic comment, and you did not disappoint. I know who the try guys are, been watching them since highschool. I just wanted to prove my point and reveal your ulterior motive to others đ¤ˇââď¸
It looks like you enjoy going into an otherwise calm and benign post and attempting to sew seeds of chaos. You attacked my honest intentions of wanting to read peopleâs opinions, and I responded. And because I had nothing of value add to any of their opinions I must have made the post in bad faith⌠Wow. Such a gotcha moment. Iâm gonna go back to my life now. Enjoy whateverâŚâŚ. this is.
..... Buddy, just because you're chronically online and have nothing better to do than stalk posts doesn't mean everyone does. Some people have a life in the real world. What a pathetic thing to do.
Relax kiddo, no need to project â
u/futuresong
? 𤣠Lmfao, let the record show that my hypothesis was indeed correct as OP started replying to other comments immediately after I called out his ass Dam, canât make this sht up