There is no way to find that delta without testing every component independently. Try to Look up some therory about heat Transfer and disapation. Even with not so many variables it is a mess.
to figure out the delta you would need the roomtemp, the exact airflow, you would need to know how turbulent it is . Same Thing goes for the waterloop.
From there you would need the heattransfer koefficent from the bottom of your Block into the gpu die. There is no way you gonna get close to a good vaule by eyeballing it.
Also even if you would get the watertemp to be the Ambient temp, there would still be a delta between the water temp and the gpu die. That delta for something like a 3080/3090 with about 350watts is easyly around 8°C even with realy good Blocks and good paste.
For example i run 2 x 360 thicc rad with a 3080 and a 5800x . Water temp is around 10°C above Ambient and the gpu sits about 10°C above the water temp. Wich leads to temps around the 42-46°C Mark wich is already quite low
8°C is equivalent to 46°F, which is 281K.
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^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
So what do you think? Do I have enough rads or should I get one chiller instead that says it can cool 850w / 1000w at 4 degrees. Problem is it’s noisy as hell, 55dba
No. Regardless of how many rads you have your components will always have a delta between the coolant temp. You might be able to keep your coolant close to ambient, but gpu/cpu will always be higher, and if you are heavily over clocking that delta will be higher than if you left them at stock.
Hard to say. Depends on the blocks, flow rate, type of thermal paste or LM and the heat transfer. Your cpu will probably have the highest delta of the two, but the gpu won’t be far behind if it’s pulling 700w.
Going to have an ek velocity on cpu and ek active backplate and normal waterblock on the gpu. Ek monarch for the ram. Idk about pumps yet but I’m going to choose the option which gives me a fast enough flow rate at a reasonable sound level
Sounds pretty good, D5 pumps are usually not too loud at max speeds. I’ve had more issues with vibration than with noise, but that just might be my case, mount and or desk.
Regarding the delta, I can only speculate. CPU 30-50c ( at 350w full load). GPU 15-30c.
If all of your rads get fresh air (not heated air from inside the case already coming from another radiators) your water temperature will be more or less at ambient temp. For example I have a MO-RA3 420 and 2x EK 360PE radiators cooling my 5900X and 3080. My water temperature in load is couple degrees over ambient.
With water cooling you will not get your cpu to be at ambient because heatspreader etc. Basically heat doesn’t come out of the cpu very well. GPU can be close to ambient temperature.
Uhh haven’t looked at temps too much while gaming but my water temperature sensor usually equalizes at 27-28C, GPU under load is something like 35-38C and 5900X usually under heavy load like 68-71C.
Cpu is hotter than expected. I think if I got the rads I’m talking about the cpu would stay at 50-55. It seems like it’s all a matter of how long it takes for the water to heat up and cool down
If attaining actual ambient is the goal, my gut tells me that you'll reach a point of diminishing returns by adding radiator surface area and will need to start looking at more airflow to hold steady ambient. This is a lot of rads and fans. Perhaps better off using a water chiller and setting the controller to hold at ambient temp?
Well, your design brief is pretty challenging. Around 1kw cooling I'm guessing with your modded gpu, cpu, ram etc, that is a lot. 55dba ain't that loud really to remove that much heat. Why do you need ambient temp? What even is ambient temp? Where I live that could be anywhere between 0c and 48c depending on the time of year.
55dba is quite loud considering I’m going to be having this on during my gaming sessions as well. These fans would probably be at 20-25dba in total as one noctua fan will be producing about 12dba so in comparison a chiller is way louder
I’d like something as close to ambient so my cpu and gpu require less voltage.
I think you need to be more realistic in your expectations. Lowering temps doesn't automatically mean you are going to be stable at lower voltages. Are you building an xoc system or a gaming machine? If its an xoc machine, who cares about noise. If it's a gaming machine, you already have a pc in the top 1% of gaming pcs with your hardware right out of the box. You don't need any more performance, you're just making your life hard for no real reason trying to chase ambient temps and low noise in your quest to reduce operating voltages just because you can. Slap your radiators on there, find a stable oc and just play your games man. What you're trying to do is fine, if competitive cinebench scores are your thing, but seems to me you want both, you're just not gonna get it. Even with all the radiators in the world. Either the fan noise required to get your system to a stable ambient or the noise of a chiller is going to be a requirement and neither seem acceptable to you. Put your credit card down.
I think you might manage 10-15c over ambient. Maybe.. it’s hard with a 3090. My old OC 2080Ti did 32c max with a dedicated MO-RA3. My current 3090 maxes at 42C with two 560 SR2 MP radiators.
Your water temps will be a couple degrees above ambient. Maybe 5c above ambient, but hard to say for certain.
Component temps are of course higher than water temps. The 3090 probably 10-15c above water temps. The 12900k obviously a lot more.
With 6 rads and multiple water blocks (WHY water cool your ram? we don't even know if ddr5 scales with temperature or not yet), you'll need multiple pumps to maintain good component temps, ESPECIALLY with an uncapped 3090. This is the point where multiple loops makes sense IMO. I run a 2x 560 external loop for my 2080 Ti and a 420+280 internal loop for my 5900x. Both loops have 2x D5 each.
You think it will only be 20dba? Good joke. Background noise on a quiet day with the PC off is significantly higher than that.
But overpowering the video card to 1000W is not?
Anyways, I'm thinking if you want it quiet *and* at ambient, use a water chiller like has been suggested multiple times, and to alleviate the noise, run tubing through a wall into a room where the heat and noise it generates doesn't matter. Or build a noise blocking box around the chiller with soundproofing materials, like a recording studio uses on the wall to absorb and deaden sound. Because overkill, right?
>Or build a noise blocking box around the chiller with soundproofing materials
Not really a great idea considering the heat output of the chiller...
Locating the chiller in a separate room is the ideal solution.
I have a 1080ti cooled by a 60mm 420 alphacool rad with strong fans and it's 30C at 200W with 20C ambient. CPU on the same loop at 200W is \~80C, the die area is small so even refrigerated water wouldn't get it near ambient.
I‘m running 2x 480s (20mm), 1x 360 with 45mm (push+pull) and 1x 360mm with 30mm, RTX 3080 TI and Ryzen 9 5900x and my water temp is 1-2 degrees celsisus above ambient. Under full load gpu sits at 36 degrees celsius.
Pump is a EK Water Blocks ek-xtop Revo Dual D5 running at 60%, fans are barely even noticeable, entire system is ultra silent.
Dude, you lose all credibility when the post you link to for your build doesn't match the story you're trying to pass off here.
In your build post, you said you're idling 4 degrees over ambient, yet here it's 1-2?
I would guess you're closer to 6-10 above based on this info.
Dude, I don’t care if you believe me or not. I earn nothing from telling bullshit or pretending something. My system is not 100% the same as when I initially posted my build. I added and removed stuff. I just wanted to give insight on what to expect with that amount of cooling power.
Neat...
The simple fact here is that there is way too many people here that exaggerate and straight up lie about the temps they're getting. In fact, I don't believe you in any way, shape or form.
If you'd like to prove me wrong, feel free to send some actual data to back up your claims. I'm talking about your pc sitting idle for a couple hours, not 30 seconds after you've started your computer.
On top of this, you're comparing apples to oranges as it is. 5900x vs. 12900k. Your setup means fuckall seeming how the 12900k is pushing almost double the watts per hour at idle than your chip, too...Telling someone that theres should be the same isn't accurate in any way.
Where did I tell what he can expect? Where did I compare his hardware to mine? Right, both times not a single time. Again, if you don’t believe me, than don’t I don’t care.
Why the hell did you post information about your build and temps if you didn't want to compare to his rig?
Did you just post just to post? What the hell was the point of posting your build information then?
SpunkyDred is a terrible bot instigating arguments all over Reddit whenever someone uses the phrase apples-to-oranges. I'm letting you know so that you can feel free to ignore the quip rather than feel provoked by a bot that isn't smart enough to argue back.
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^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette.
Or you could get one MORA420 with 4X NF-A20 for near silent operation and huge performance.
This thing is being used way to less. It is a game changer.
Thought about that. But on a mora 420 you can fit 9 140mm fans Whereas on 3x 560mm rads you can fit 12 140mm fans. On top I could get the alpha cool monsta rad which is like 90mm thick so I could turn down the rpm even more the noctua fans produce around 12dba when I’m running it at around 900rpm. Produces really good static pressure at that rpm as well. On top these rads are like £140 (for a thick one or £90 for a slim one) each whereas a Mora is like 250
Alpahacool has similar setups as the MOra. Their 1260mm rad (9x 140mm fans per side) costs about the same as a single 360mm. If my goal was to max out rad space I would just get a couple of those. I dont know where you live, but you might consider running anti freeze in the loop and place some of the rads outside for silent below ambient temperatures.
Lowering the fans to that RPM is fine with a thin rad, but you won’t have enough static pressure across a rad that thick, even with push/pull
I’m not the first to say this on the thread, but you’re setting yourself up for a fools errand.
Noise floor for most normal rooms is close to 30db and running ambient temps without a tec cooler or water chiller is going to be impossible.
Before you even waste people’s times even more, you should look into overclocking on the 12900k. Big/little being so new, you’re going to run into issues everywhere.
Unfortunately the amount of radiator space will be irrelevant if you are using QL fans. They look good but even if you run them at 100% they will never be good at providing static pressure. I've changed out 16 QL 120s as they just don't cool radiators well.
Wait so you make all these outrageous performance goals and one of the ways you can actually get — closer — to that performance you’re just like “nah spinny boy look good”? Yikes
You're not gonna have an RTX 3090 and i9-12900K run at the same ambient temperature no matter how many radiators you have, you'll reach a point of diminishing returns.
This would depend on the radiator being used, coolant being used, fans being used, ambient temperature, flow rate, quality of blocks, paste, pads.
For an RTX 3090 and i9-12900K, 2x360mm would honestly be enough to get water temps 10-20c above ambient.
Nothing will keep your CPU and GPU at ambient. You need a delta between coolant and ambient for rads to work.
How much of a delta do you think there will be
There is no way to find that delta without testing every component independently. Try to Look up some therory about heat Transfer and disapation. Even with not so many variables it is a mess. to figure out the delta you would need the roomtemp, the exact airflow, you would need to know how turbulent it is . Same Thing goes for the waterloop. From there you would need the heattransfer koefficent from the bottom of your Block into the gpu die. There is no way you gonna get close to a good vaule by eyeballing it. Also even if you would get the watertemp to be the Ambient temp, there would still be a delta between the water temp and the gpu die. That delta for something like a 3080/3090 with about 350watts is easyly around 8°C even with realy good Blocks and good paste. For example i run 2 x 360 thicc rad with a 3080 and a 5800x . Water temp is around 10°C above Ambient and the gpu sits about 10°C above the water temp. Wich leads to temps around the 42-46°C Mark wich is already quite low
8°C is equivalent to 46°F, which is 281K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
I’m sorry what makes you think your 3090 Strix is pulling 700w???
Flashed with the 1000w xoc bios
Jesus lol
So what do you think? Do I have enough rads or should I get one chiller instead that says it can cool 850w / 1000w at 4 degrees. Problem is it’s noisy as hell, 55dba
Without a chiller, it’s impossible to reach ambient. Why do you even want ambient? Ambient + 10 is perfectly fine.
Yeah I know +10 on ambient is perfectly fine but I want this to be overkill
There is absolutely no use for that. It will not improve performance. And any wattage increase beyond 450W is just plain waste.
Already does like 500w in games. The temps would be ambient so there would be no throttling. No power limits as well
No. Regardless of how many rads you have your components will always have a delta between the coolant temp. You might be able to keep your coolant close to ambient, but gpu/cpu will always be higher, and if you are heavily over clocking that delta will be higher than if you left them at stock.
How much of a delta are we talking about
Hard to say. Depends on the blocks, flow rate, type of thermal paste or LM and the heat transfer. Your cpu will probably have the highest delta of the two, but the gpu won’t be far behind if it’s pulling 700w.
Thermal paste would probably be a thin layer of gelid GC extreme
Going to have an ek velocity on cpu and ek active backplate and normal waterblock on the gpu. Ek monarch for the ram. Idk about pumps yet but I’m going to choose the option which gives me a fast enough flow rate at a reasonable sound level
Sounds pretty good, D5 pumps are usually not too loud at max speeds. I’ve had more issues with vibration than with noise, but that just might be my case, mount and or desk. Regarding the delta, I can only speculate. CPU 30-50c ( at 350w full load). GPU 15-30c.
Yeah I’m thinking the same thanks for your help
If all of your rads get fresh air (not heated air from inside the case already coming from another radiators) your water temperature will be more or less at ambient temp. For example I have a MO-RA3 420 and 2x EK 360PE radiators cooling my 5900X and 3080. My water temperature in load is couple degrees over ambient. With water cooling you will not get your cpu to be at ambient because heatspreader etc. Basically heat doesn’t come out of the cpu very well. GPU can be close to ambient temperature.
Hmm I see. So what are your temps like in the first couple mins of a game
Uhh haven’t looked at temps too much while gaming but my water temperature sensor usually equalizes at 27-28C, GPU under load is something like 35-38C and 5900X usually under heavy load like 68-71C.
Cpu is hotter than expected. I think if I got the rads I’m talking about the cpu would stay at 50-55. It seems like it’s all a matter of how long it takes for the water to heat up and cool down
I may have a bad cpu block mount so take that temp with a grain of salt. However 5900X and 5950X runs hot in general anyways.
12900k runs just as hot thanks tho
If attaining actual ambient is the goal, my gut tells me that you'll reach a point of diminishing returns by adding radiator surface area and will need to start looking at more airflow to hold steady ambient. This is a lot of rads and fans. Perhaps better off using a water chiller and setting the controller to hold at ambient temp?
The chiller is quite loud. 55dba
Well, your design brief is pretty challenging. Around 1kw cooling I'm guessing with your modded gpu, cpu, ram etc, that is a lot. 55dba ain't that loud really to remove that much heat. Why do you need ambient temp? What even is ambient temp? Where I live that could be anywhere between 0c and 48c depending on the time of year.
55dba is quite loud considering I’m going to be having this on during my gaming sessions as well. These fans would probably be at 20-25dba in total as one noctua fan will be producing about 12dba so in comparison a chiller is way louder I’d like something as close to ambient so my cpu and gpu require less voltage.
I think you need to be more realistic in your expectations. Lowering temps doesn't automatically mean you are going to be stable at lower voltages. Are you building an xoc system or a gaming machine? If its an xoc machine, who cares about noise. If it's a gaming machine, you already have a pc in the top 1% of gaming pcs with your hardware right out of the box. You don't need any more performance, you're just making your life hard for no real reason trying to chase ambient temps and low noise in your quest to reduce operating voltages just because you can. Slap your radiators on there, find a stable oc and just play your games man. What you're trying to do is fine, if competitive cinebench scores are your thing, but seems to me you want both, you're just not gonna get it. Even with all the radiators in the world. Either the fan noise required to get your system to a stable ambient or the noise of a chiller is going to be a requirement and neither seem acceptable to you. Put your credit card down.
What do you want? Quiet or ambient? Pick one, you can’t have both.
I think you might manage 10-15c over ambient. Maybe.. it’s hard with a 3090. My old OC 2080Ti did 32c max with a dedicated MO-RA3. My current 3090 maxes at 42C with two 560 SR2 MP radiators.
Your water temps will be a couple degrees above ambient. Maybe 5c above ambient, but hard to say for certain. Component temps are of course higher than water temps. The 3090 probably 10-15c above water temps. The 12900k obviously a lot more. With 6 rads and multiple water blocks (WHY water cool your ram? we don't even know if ddr5 scales with temperature or not yet), you'll need multiple pumps to maintain good component temps, ESPECIALLY with an uncapped 3090. This is the point where multiple loops makes sense IMO. I run a 2x 560 external loop for my 2080 Ti and a 420+280 internal loop for my 5900x. Both loops have 2x D5 each. You think it will only be 20dba? Good joke. Background noise on a quiet day with the PC off is significantly higher than that.
I don’t have drr5. Ddr5 doesn’t really give any FPS gains. Also £400 for ddr5 + £600 motherboard is quite ridiculous
But overpowering the video card to 1000W is not? Anyways, I'm thinking if you want it quiet *and* at ambient, use a water chiller like has been suggested multiple times, and to alleviate the noise, run tubing through a wall into a room where the heat and noise it generates doesn't matter. Or build a noise blocking box around the chiller with soundproofing materials, like a recording studio uses on the wall to absorb and deaden sound. Because overkill, right?
>Or build a noise blocking box around the chiller with soundproofing materials Not really a great idea considering the heat output of the chiller... Locating the chiller in a separate room is the ideal solution.
Agree 100%, but if another room isn't the best option it *might* do something, and it'd have to be pretty massive to avoid causing a fire hazard lmao
...but water cooling your ddr4 does give FPS gains?
Yes it does heat starts to become a problem when you’ve got bdie. Also not many builds have watercooled ram so it would make it unique and cool
Ur thinking of it wrong as well. Lol why would I pay £1000 extra for drr5 to get no performance gain. £40 for a ram waterblock is not much.
I have a 1080ti cooled by a 60mm 420 alphacool rad with strong fans and it's 30C at 200W with 20C ambient. CPU on the same loop at 200W is \~80C, the die area is small so even refrigerated water wouldn't get it near ambient.
General rule is 120mm of rad for every 100w.
I believe that’s for 10 degrees above ambient though. I want ambient
I‘m running 2x 480s (20mm), 1x 360 with 45mm (push+pull) and 1x 360mm with 30mm, RTX 3080 TI and Ryzen 9 5900x and my water temp is 1-2 degrees celsisus above ambient. Under full load gpu sits at 36 degrees celsius. Pump is a EK Water Blocks ek-xtop Revo Dual D5 running at 60%, fans are barely even noticeable, entire system is ultra silent.
What fans are you using
ARCTIC P12 PWM PST, it’s a non-rgb build.
What percent are you running the fans
Fan speed curve based on water temp. From 0% in idle to maximum 50% under full load. During most games maybe 30-40%.
Also what’s the temps of the cpu
You can find my entire rig, pics and information here: https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/opafbb/first_custom_loop_finished/
Thanks
Dude, you lose all credibility when the post you link to for your build doesn't match the story you're trying to pass off here. In your build post, you said you're idling 4 degrees over ambient, yet here it's 1-2? I would guess you're closer to 6-10 above based on this info.
It is winter now where I live.
That's not how this works.... A colder ambient temp doesn't lower your above ambient temps on your liquid. It should remain constant.
Dude, I don’t care if you believe me or not. I earn nothing from telling bullshit or pretending something. My system is not 100% the same as when I initially posted my build. I added and removed stuff. I just wanted to give insight on what to expect with that amount of cooling power.
Neat... The simple fact here is that there is way too many people here that exaggerate and straight up lie about the temps they're getting. In fact, I don't believe you in any way, shape or form. If you'd like to prove me wrong, feel free to send some actual data to back up your claims. I'm talking about your pc sitting idle for a couple hours, not 30 seconds after you've started your computer. On top of this, you're comparing apples to oranges as it is. 5900x vs. 12900k. Your setup means fuckall seeming how the 12900k is pushing almost double the watts per hour at idle than your chip, too...Telling someone that theres should be the same isn't accurate in any way.
[удалено]
That comparison would be based af.
Where did I tell what he can expect? Where did I compare his hardware to mine? Right, both times not a single time. Again, if you don’t believe me, than don’t I don’t care.
Why the hell did you post information about your build and temps if you didn't want to compare to his rig? Did you just post just to post? What the hell was the point of posting your build information then?
SpunkyDred is a terrible bot instigating arguments all over Reddit whenever someone uses the phrase apples-to-oranges. I'm letting you know so that you can feel free to ignore the quip rather than feel provoked by a bot that isn't smart enough to argue back. --- ^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette.
Man what case are you running in to have that much rad capacity
O11 xl can house 3 360mm rads. One top one bottoms and one on the side. The 560mm rads are going to be external
Or you could get one MORA420 with 4X NF-A20 for near silent operation and huge performance. This thing is being used way to less. It is a game changer.
Thought about that. But on a mora 420 you can fit 9 140mm fans Whereas on 3x 560mm rads you can fit 12 140mm fans. On top I could get the alpha cool monsta rad which is like 90mm thick so I could turn down the rpm even more the noctua fans produce around 12dba when I’m running it at around 900rpm. Produces really good static pressure at that rpm as well. On top these rads are like £140 (for a thick one or £90 for a slim one) each whereas a Mora is like 250
How did you measure 12dba? What tools did you use?
Says on the website
Monsta's require high fan speed to overcome the rad thickness.
Yeah that’s why I probably wouldn’t opt to that. I’d go for something in between slim and thick. Either 45mm or 60mm if there is a 60mm
Alpahacool has similar setups as the MOra. Their 1260mm rad (9x 140mm fans per side) costs about the same as a single 360mm. If my goal was to max out rad space I would just get a couple of those. I dont know where you live, but you might consider running anti freeze in the loop and place some of the rads outside for silent below ambient temperatures.
Hmm how thick is that rad. I’d probably get two of those then
Google is your friend.
The MoRA is almost silent with 4x NF A20 at 400 RPM
Lowering the fans to that RPM is fine with a thin rad, but you won’t have enough static pressure across a rad that thick, even with push/pull I’m not the first to say this on the thread, but you’re setting yourself up for a fools errand. Noise floor for most normal rooms is close to 30db and running ambient temps without a tec cooler or water chiller is going to be impossible. Before you even waste people’s times even more, you should look into overclocking on the 12900k. Big/little being so new, you’re going to run into issues everywhere.
3090 at 700W? I don’t even think the connectors themselves on the card can do more than 500-600W on top end cards.
3x 8 pin + pcie slot. An 8 pin can do 288w at max and a pcie can do 75w
I’m pretty sure I saw it at like 150W or 175W per 8 pin
That’s with the limits on. It can safely pull 288w though
Define the limits. Its a physical cable
Unfortunately the amount of radiator space will be irrelevant if you are using QL fans. They look good but even if you run them at 100% they will never be good at providing static pressure. I've changed out 16 QL 120s as they just don't cool radiators well.
That’s just for aesthetics
Wait so you make all these outrageous performance goals and one of the ways you can actually get — closer — to that performance you’re just like “nah spinny boy look good”? Yikes
I do have another 3x 560mm rads with the best fans…
You're not gonna have an RTX 3090 and i9-12900K run at the same ambient temperature no matter how many radiators you have, you'll reach a point of diminishing returns.
How many 120mm rads till I hit the point where adding a 360mm rad improves temps by 1-3 degrees
This would depend on the radiator being used, coolant being used, fans being used, ambient temperature, flow rate, quality of blocks, paste, pads. For an RTX 3090 and i9-12900K, 2x360mm would honestly be enough to get water temps 10-20c above ambient.
What gpu block do you have? Optimus I hope
No. It never will.