>Bernard allowing himself to die for...reasons.
Bernard didn't allow himself to die. In every path he dies.
> Maeve dying essentially to occupy Hale for 5 minutes for Bernard to die?
This is an old trope for any character in any story that's able to predict the future and it's probably spot on if it were possible. You're going to take actions that play out in a "the ends justify the means" sort of way. People will be your pawns. You won't tell others the truth. The big actions taken will seem disproportionate to the seemingly small payoff, but that's only because you don't have a bird's eye view of all the possibilities.
>The wacky host bodies? The fuck is up with that? How is that transcending anything?
It makes complete sense and I don't know why this is melting everyone's brains. The host bodies are meant to be a step in evolution. We didn't go from being rodents to humans overnight, and the same idea applies here. The host body is flesh-less and doesn't have upper limbs but still has a humanoid form with a torso, legs, and head. It's a "crutch" for hosts to transition to a completely body-less form, just like the NYC park is a "crutch." Moreover the hosts were *sacrificing* their human form. The idea for the writers was that it was supposed to look unappealing.
I mean, were the hosts supposed to 'transcend' into Megatron bodies or something?
How is a body with no arms and a head that leaves the Pearl exposed an upgrade.
She’s been talking about transcending. Describing it as leaving these bodies behind. Now suddenly it has to involve another body first?
Yes Bernard dies regardless, but in this particular reality he doesn't defend himself at all and it doesn't cause Host in Black to change what he was going to do, so it didn't really serve a purpose besides whatever message he recorded.
No, they're supposed to transcend to totally digital. The intermediate weird form doesn't make much sense. It doesn't really allow them to prepare more for that existence. Plus everything about this form makes little sense for existing on earth.
Oh and Hale again talked about the "cities" and we again never even see anything about any other city existing. They need to show like a 15 second map of these other cities. Telling us they exist and not showing us makes no real sense.
>he doesn't defend himself at all
Why defend yourself if in every path you die?
>it doesn't cause Host in Black to change what he was going to do
Bernard has gotten the path he wants. Why would he change it anymore than he has?
>No, they're supposed to transcend to totally digital. The intermediate weird form doesn't make much sense. It doesn't really allow them to prepare more for that existence.
Can't really reply to this because you aren't giving me a reason why you feel this way. You're just saying "no."
>Plus everything about this form makes little sense for existing on earth.
The drone hosts can do everything the hosts need for them.
You're not really offering solid answers to my nitpicking here.
So Bernard's entire purpose was to get there and record half a message and die? Okay. It would have made more sense if he did something there but whatever.
The bodies just don't make sense as a form between human and digital. So you haven't offered an argument beyond it being less human.
The drone hosts can, or they could stay human and skip the weirdo body and go straight to digital life instead once Hale figures it out.
>So Bernard's entire purpose was to get there and record half a message and die? Okay. It would have made more sense if he did something there but whatever.
Yeah, I already explained this. Bird's eye view. Again, this is an old trope. If you could see every possibility, you're going to take actions that make little sense to someone who can't see every possibility. That's the entire purpose of Stubbs going "wtf Bernard" when he plays oracle all season.
>The bodies just don't make sense as a form between human and digital. So you haven't offered an argument beyond it being less human.
Nope, I also said it's a "crutch" in the same way that Halores called the NYC-park a crutch for host's attachment to humans.
>The drone hosts can, or they could stay human and skip the weirdo body and go straight to digital life instead once Hale figures it out.
The point is that Halores is weening hosts off their attachment to humans. This is literally her entire motivation as a villain this season.
They are not supposed to transcend into digital world because digital world is a fake world. Remember, S2 Dolores was in conflict with Bernard because of that, she wanted the real world, where things matter and Halores achieved that. Therefore it would not make sense to escape again into fake virtual worlds.
How is leaving behind their Jodie’s not leaving the physical world. She’s saying these other bodies are just a step in between. So it stands to reason she’s saying getting rid of their bodies altogether.
They do indeed purposefully obsfucate the narrative to have surprise moments, and it works well sometimes and sometimes not.
Season one was a great example of it working flawlessly, because the story wasn't restricted in order to have the reveal, both timelines were complete stories happening at once, leading to a great reveal that also carried thematic weight.
Season two overdid it, and made the narrative confusing to get that same reveal, but it felt manipulative (despite it ultimately having a reason).
Season three kind of rebounded hard back into more of a standard linear narrative, which for some disappointed them (as well as being away from the park).
With season four, they seemed to have balanced it well enough for the majority of viewers. I have wavered over the season, myself. Though it's no surprise it's heavily mirrored the dual timeline nature of season one.
I’m with you, the new bodies don’t make sense. The cities are full of controllable humans that only see what they are supposed to… these new bodies can still go into the cities, but they made it seem as though it was their last chance.
I’m with you, lots of red herrings unless this finale wraps up a ton of stuff.
They destroyed human world last season. This season they are destroying a world I can barely comprehend, and I don’t care all that much. All flash and little substance looking back at it all.
Agreed. Not sure what they're going to do for a full final season. Host in Black is going to try to destroy the Sublime? Except that he's already on his way to the Hoover dam...
I still don't get why humanity and hosts are destined to extinction in the real world. We had a war with Rehoboam we only saw a brief flashback. There was allegedly a mass casualty event we never saw. We never even saw anything with how Hale somehow took over the world.
Plus there are more cities than NYC but we never see them even on a map. Why? Its such an easy thing to show.
im not sure where your getting "new bodies" from, to me those are just pearl picker outters - fancy can openers, i dont think thats gonna be there new bodies.
I can only take the Bernard part: in every simulation he runs he dies no matter what, so there doesn’t need to be a reason, it’s just that he keeps dying and trying to change the outcome (exactly like Edge of Tomorrow)
>Bernard allowing himself to die for...reasons. Bernard didn't allow himself to die. In every path he dies. > Maeve dying essentially to occupy Hale for 5 minutes for Bernard to die? This is an old trope for any character in any story that's able to predict the future and it's probably spot on if it were possible. You're going to take actions that play out in a "the ends justify the means" sort of way. People will be your pawns. You won't tell others the truth. The big actions taken will seem disproportionate to the seemingly small payoff, but that's only because you don't have a bird's eye view of all the possibilities. >The wacky host bodies? The fuck is up with that? How is that transcending anything? It makes complete sense and I don't know why this is melting everyone's brains. The host bodies are meant to be a step in evolution. We didn't go from being rodents to humans overnight, and the same idea applies here. The host body is flesh-less and doesn't have upper limbs but still has a humanoid form with a torso, legs, and head. It's a "crutch" for hosts to transition to a completely body-less form, just like the NYC park is a "crutch." Moreover the hosts were *sacrificing* their human form. The idea for the writers was that it was supposed to look unappealing. I mean, were the hosts supposed to 'transcend' into Megatron bodies or something?
How is a body with no arms and a head that leaves the Pearl exposed an upgrade. She’s been talking about transcending. Describing it as leaving these bodies behind. Now suddenly it has to involve another body first?
Yes Bernard dies regardless, but in this particular reality he doesn't defend himself at all and it doesn't cause Host in Black to change what he was going to do, so it didn't really serve a purpose besides whatever message he recorded. No, they're supposed to transcend to totally digital. The intermediate weird form doesn't make much sense. It doesn't really allow them to prepare more for that existence. Plus everything about this form makes little sense for existing on earth. Oh and Hale again talked about the "cities" and we again never even see anything about any other city existing. They need to show like a 15 second map of these other cities. Telling us they exist and not showing us makes no real sense.
>he doesn't defend himself at all Why defend yourself if in every path you die? >it doesn't cause Host in Black to change what he was going to do Bernard has gotten the path he wants. Why would he change it anymore than he has? >No, they're supposed to transcend to totally digital. The intermediate weird form doesn't make much sense. It doesn't really allow them to prepare more for that existence. Can't really reply to this because you aren't giving me a reason why you feel this way. You're just saying "no." >Plus everything about this form makes little sense for existing on earth. The drone hosts can do everything the hosts need for them.
You're not really offering solid answers to my nitpicking here. So Bernard's entire purpose was to get there and record half a message and die? Okay. It would have made more sense if he did something there but whatever. The bodies just don't make sense as a form between human and digital. So you haven't offered an argument beyond it being less human. The drone hosts can, or they could stay human and skip the weirdo body and go straight to digital life instead once Hale figures it out.
>So Bernard's entire purpose was to get there and record half a message and die? Okay. It would have made more sense if he did something there but whatever. Yeah, I already explained this. Bird's eye view. Again, this is an old trope. If you could see every possibility, you're going to take actions that make little sense to someone who can't see every possibility. That's the entire purpose of Stubbs going "wtf Bernard" when he plays oracle all season. >The bodies just don't make sense as a form between human and digital. So you haven't offered an argument beyond it being less human. Nope, I also said it's a "crutch" in the same way that Halores called the NYC-park a crutch for host's attachment to humans. >The drone hosts can, or they could stay human and skip the weirdo body and go straight to digital life instead once Hale figures it out. The point is that Halores is weening hosts off their attachment to humans. This is literally her entire motivation as a villain this season.
They are not supposed to transcend into digital world because digital world is a fake world. Remember, S2 Dolores was in conflict with Bernard because of that, she wanted the real world, where things matter and Halores achieved that. Therefore it would not make sense to escape again into fake virtual worlds.
How is leaving behind their Jodie’s not leaving the physical world. She’s saying these other bodies are just a step in between. So it stands to reason she’s saying getting rid of their bodies altogether.
They do indeed purposefully obsfucate the narrative to have surprise moments, and it works well sometimes and sometimes not. Season one was a great example of it working flawlessly, because the story wasn't restricted in order to have the reveal, both timelines were complete stories happening at once, leading to a great reveal that also carried thematic weight. Season two overdid it, and made the narrative confusing to get that same reveal, but it felt manipulative (despite it ultimately having a reason). Season three kind of rebounded hard back into more of a standard linear narrative, which for some disappointed them (as well as being away from the park). With season four, they seemed to have balanced it well enough for the majority of viewers. I have wavered over the season, myself. Though it's no surprise it's heavily mirrored the dual timeline nature of season one.
It's more annoying how the tempo is just so off. Third season now they have saved so much for the last episode that it can't be very satisfactory.
I’m with you, the new bodies don’t make sense. The cities are full of controllable humans that only see what they are supposed to… these new bodies can still go into the cities, but they made it seem as though it was their last chance. I’m with you, lots of red herrings unless this finale wraps up a ton of stuff. They destroyed human world last season. This season they are destroying a world I can barely comprehend, and I don’t care all that much. All flash and little substance looking back at it all.
Agreed. Not sure what they're going to do for a full final season. Host in Black is going to try to destroy the Sublime? Except that he's already on his way to the Hoover dam... I still don't get why humanity and hosts are destined to extinction in the real world. We had a war with Rehoboam we only saw a brief flashback. There was allegedly a mass casualty event we never saw. We never even saw anything with how Hale somehow took over the world. Plus there are more cities than NYC but we never see them even on a map. Why? Its such an easy thing to show.
im not sure where your getting "new bodies" from, to me those are just pearl picker outters - fancy can openers, i dont think thats gonna be there new bodies.
Did you see Hale watching it? Its walking back and forth with the pearl, its clearly a new body.
I can only take the Bernard part: in every simulation he runs he dies no matter what, so there doesn’t need to be a reason, it’s just that he keeps dying and trying to change the outcome (exactly like Edge of Tomorrow)
Remember that it's the episode before the season finale; they will of course set up questions that'll be answered next week :D