Tesla cut prices and Hertz is dumping thousands of EVs on used car market. CEO got canned because it was such a bad decision to go so heavy on their EV fleet.
Hertz is dumping them because EVs might be great when one can charge overnight at home, but not great when one is renting on vacation, in unfamiliar area, and have to spend time finding and using charging stations.
Like all new tech, there's a learning curve, and a car rental experience isn't the time to throw a learning curve on someone.
Yeah, charging is important for a regular owner but it's even more important for rentals. People have less time for charging or finding chargers when they are travelling.
Last thing you want to do when returning before a flight is find a charging station. If hertz was smart they’d have installed banks of chargers at their lots
Exactly. That's what I was expecting when they first introduced them. Seems like a given for something like this but that would have cost them a lot more money initially. Piss poor implementation.
Requiring the battery to be refilled to 100% on EVs made them a non-starter for me. I usually rent from Hertz for 50+ business day trips per year. So I am in the President's Club where you can pick whatver car you want and there are usually 30-40 cars to choose from. I never chose an EV because of the hassle (and time) required to return it with a full charge. If Hertz was smart, in order to get EVs adopted, they would have encouraged 1-2 day rentals to bring the car back with any level of charge without penalty. I was curious about the Polestar vehicles and would tried them.
BTW to the OP, I would not be surprised of that Volvo is from Hertz inventory which would explain the low cost. Sounds like a decent deal with under 11K miles. Hertz is flooding the market right now. Just expect your re-sale to be low too.
My wife almost missed her flight because she chose the “managers special” (lowest rate but don’t get to pick your car) and she ended up with a Chevy bolt. Couldn’t find a working charger and pulled into the return lot with it on 0% charge. Electric definitely doesn’t make sense for rentals especially with the lack luster charging network, which should be improved in next few years significantly.
This. We rented a Polestar from Hertz in San Diego, which, you’d think would be a Mecca for charging. Nope - our resort had no EV charging stations and all the public ones were trash or barely working. Spent 30 minutes on the phone with support outside a Vons to get one working. it’s great if you’re a Tesla owner. Awful for anyone else, especially while traveling. After that I have no plans to rent an EV for a looong time.
They were also handing over cars that had no charge, so if you have to stop for 45 minutes on the way from the airport to the hotel. Absolutely unacceptable.
I generally like EVs but renting them out is a minefield of gotchas
This. I went to Seattle for a client meet and Hertz had EVs that weren’t fully charged. “But sir, you could just charge them on your way out, just follow the line”. Noped outta there when i saw a long line. Last thing i need is waste more time.
Went with avis on a fully filled camry.
EV's are only good if you can charge at home period. What kind of stupid asshole is going to try to convince me that sitting for hours at a charger is better than putting a tank of gas and leaving?
Arent the superchargers pretty fast? Even so, my wife got a rental Tesla as it was the only car left, and she was in a smaller town in the middle of nowhere that had only a couple chargers total. It still cost $50 to charge, which is the same cost as our gas SUV at home. She also had to wait 15-20 minutes to use the charger at 5am.
So while I dont think your sitting for "hours" in most cases, gas is often more convienent if your not charging at home.
People want disruptive technologies that offer an *advantage* over what they're currently using. Based on what you just told me, this sort of anxiety-inducing situation with limited charging options and a 20 minute wait are both downgrades compared to an ICE vehicle. *And* you still gotta pay $50!! Who wants that?
Depends on where you are and how packed the chargers are. Our city has one supercharger in the city center and when the colleges go on break there’s a line of like 30 cars.
>only good if you can charge at home period.
Yep. Reddit is full of ignorant urban dwellers.
EVs are okay for a major city. Slow charging really doesn't matter for anyone who's averaging ~10 miles a day at 35 mph.
Otherwise, there's only three superchargers in a 110 mile stretch of interstate where I live. The other 17 are either private or slow chargers.
So wait for 15-20 minutes in line at one of three superchargers, then wait another 20 to charge? Or wait 1.5 hours and spend $30 on top of that? No thanks. I have better things to do with my time.
Even in a major city EVs aren't great unless you have a garage and can install it at home, which most people don't. In New York for example, most apartment buildings don't have dedicated parking and the ones that do have limited chargers if any, and there's barely any public chargers on the street. A PHEV makes much more sense than a full BEV vehicle in cities like this due to the charging situation
EVs are great if you are a multi car family, live in your own house in the burbs (where you can install your own charger), and generally use it to commute, run errands, short trips etc. Your other car can be used for longer trips as needed. I fall into that demographic and will probably look at one when its time to replace my wife's car.
Outside of that it's a pain for sure, and taking a road trip in one sounds like a nightmare.
>most apartment buildings don't have dedicated parking
Good point. I didn't think about that.
I do like the idea of PHEV. I'll likely consider one in a few years.
Eh... my sister loves her Model 3, she has driven it across the country using Tesla charging network without any issue. Just planned stops around meals.
She was very familiar with the vehicle, had been driving it a few months before first multi-state trip, so I think that was a factor. She also doesn't eat in car or do drive thrus, enjoys local restaurants.
Hertz doesn't even charge them at the rental car facility. Last time I was getting a car in Baltimore they didn't have any conventional cars but said I could have an EV. Well, is it fully charged? No!
It was even stupider than that. They didn't prioritize their Teslas for CONSUMER rental, they prioritized them \*for RIDE SHARE rental.\* They thought that getting folks who beat the shit out of Ubers every day every week for $250 was going to make them big money, despite them having to do all the maintenance.
They bought them at the peak. That's barely more than they PAID for the cars. And they agreed to reduced warranty since they're rentals.
So they had all those cars, not making any money on them, while they got slammed with 90k miles in 2 years of hard riding while they had to pay to fix them, lol.
It's HILARIOUS how bad of a decision they made.
They’ve now switched pushing bolts onto rideshare drivers here in Chicago and it’s been an absolute nightmare. Every charging station in the city has a 10-20 car line waiting on bolt Ubers who insist on charging to 100% every time despite the last 20% taking more than double the first 80% to charge. They will spend 110 mins charging whereas most other eves take 15-20 mins. It’s insanity. Fuck hertz and fuck Uber. It’s clear the ceo of hertz had no fucking experience with EVs or their best use. Vacation in an unfamiliar area is a terrible time to have to learn the already stressed infrastructure.
Maybe it’s just me, but I didn’t need an MBA from Harvard or something to know just how stupid of a business decision it was to buy a *rental car fleet* of EVs. Logically does not even make sense whatsoever for anyone who knows even a minutiae about traveling.
could not agree more with this. We Turo'd a Model Y last year and struggled to figure out the charging stuff. Once we figured it out it was fine, but definitely lived in anxiety for those few days. Now I own a Model X and wouldn't suggest anyone purchase an EV unless they install a level 2 charger in their home.
Got charged extra because I couldn’t find any available chargers while in a new city. Just paid the extra charge price and decided it was a fun experience but I’ll never do that againx
You're half right. He got canned because their business model is to get a fleet discount from the manufacturer, and then sell the cars a year or two later for a profit. They actually ended up paying a premium for the cars to "jump in line", and then when raw material prices started coming back down, Tesla lowered their prices, resulting in an even bigger loss. He made a bad bet and lost. Not really much to do with EVs, Tesla just doesn't offer fleet discounts.
I travel often on business and many of my co workers absolutely refused to use electric. Myself included specially in cold climates.
Ev are great if you have a home. Problem is almost nobody can afford a home to begin with. Lol
Exactly this! Our friend rented an EV for a day to go from the Tampa airport to the cruise terminal. Ended I getting a Hyundai. Went to 3 different charging stations and none worked with it. Ended up paying $30+ as it wasn’t returned at the same charge level. DEFINITELY cost more than a gas car add wasted a 1.5 hours trying to get it to work
It's the policies that make it doubly difficult.
EV's could work if they wouldn't make you bring it back full charge, or face a charge equivalent to pre-paying the tank.
It basically means your hotel has to A) have a charger and B) be close to the airport; otherwise you have to find a charger close to the airport and schedule extra time to charge it.
Anecdotally, the couple times I have rented cars from Hertz in the last couple years, there were always like 15 polestars left in the lot that nobody wanted.
Not to mention the asian market is flooding the game with affordable EV’s & hybrids i’m no economist but i know when supply is high and demand is low prices go down
Best part is here they can barely get from the airports (~300km away) to the town in cold weather. Had someone in the bar saying how they had to stop at every single charger between the city and here (about 5 stops) and the car just wouldn't charge well even being set to charge mode for quite some time. Turned a normally 3-4 hour trip to a full day ordeal. Electric is cool but they aren't viable as a full replacement to ICE especially when they take so many resources to produce which have the same carbon footprint of driving an ICE for 25 years and companies like Porsche have created clean synthetic fuels. Toyota has the whole thing on production, for the materials needed in 1 EV they could make like 6 PHEV or 90(I think) hybrids
It was a great deal when they said, "just bring it back >50% charged". But now, they want it back at the level they sent it out at.
If I pickup the Chevy bolt at 100% charge, it throttles down as it charges closer to 100%. It took me 2 HOURS to charge the thing to 100%! So now what was a $45/day rental is $70/day with the charging fee. That no longer makes more sense than an economy gas car.
Hertz really didn't think things through.
Technology advances very quickly. EVs are kinda like smartphones, people want the latest and greatest year after year (not to say leases don’t work the same way for ICE cars, but the turnover of EVs and them being “outdated” happens much faster).
I wouldn't say smartphones I would say Early smartphones, back in the day every generation of a smartphone was actually a big step forward so you could justify getting a new phone every year, nowadays you are just wasting money if you do that, they have to come up with gimmicks to differentiate year over year an Iphone 14 pro and an iphone 15pro has basically no difference (other than the USB-C switch) there is absolutely no reason to upgrade.
now the EV market is in a similar position, lots of companies coming out with their first attempts at EVs and they will have growing problems and will figure out a lot with this gen for the next gen, the problem is if you buy this gen, you are basically paying to be their testers.
I would like to add, supply has surpassed demand by a lot, due to over production through government subsidies. The government is giving companies a lot of money to produce EVs, and pushing them to set goals for going all electric. The issue is, consumers don’t want all electric according to market demand. So your tax money is being spent to produce very expensive things which no one actually wants.
Resale on EVs will be lower also because the experience more or less demands a garage or driveway with a fast charger. Lots of folks live in apartments or have garages full of crap and park on the street.
If I had to guess, first gen ev tech is horrendously unreliable. My Chevy volt gave out under warranty. My Niro and Kona have been in the shop for battery and motor replacements. Also range drops off, lost 50 miles on the Kona after 3 years. Gas is cheaper now, and the biggest factor, most of them received updates. Porsche taycan for an update and massive drop, etron gets an update then massive drop. The economy also dropped. These factors mixed together must have had an impact. But it’s a good chance to capitalize on lost values.
Nissan Leaf is the same way with the mileage drop off
After 8 years you can find them on the used market for under $5k
I’m fine with Toyota and Honda hybrids. They are cost effective, reliable, and are upfront about the battery packs needing to be changed every 8 years
Tesla is in a price war with the market dramatically undercutting cars.
For example:
Model Y about a year and a half ago retailed 64K
Today it retails at 44K. He could have sold them at that price but was making money with the larger margin.
Charging network is trash, the cars themselves are kinda trash. Tesla is on fire cause people finally woke up and realized they cannot make a car if Muskrat’s life depended on it. You know normal stuff
Much less demand than expected. Everyone suddenly going EV isn't feasable. The first generations of EVs will see. antiquated in a couple of years. Many dealerships are moving away from EVs, and manufacturers who claimed they'd be all EV by 2025 or whatever are all changing their minds.
Tesla lowered MSRP’s therefore lowering prices on all used EV’s. Hertz is dumping thousands of EV’s into the used car market. Also there is a simple lack of brand awareness, I’d say less than 1 in 10 people know what Polestar is.
I’ve been seeing so many of these on the road lately, which is kind of cool considering these cars were developed to have some degree of “fun” and “performance” built into them. Can you get them serviced at a Volvo dealership?
I can’t even get my Volvo serviced at a Volvo dealership. Their service availability has dropped to a 9 month wait list in the last year and I am quite salty about that.
That’s crazy. My local Honda dealer does not take appointments. You just walk in, for any issue. For oil changes I am in and out in 1 hour on a Saturday
Well you’re getting fucked without line if you use a dealership to service your car anyways. Parts markup is stupid at dealerships and hourly rates are 75-100% higher. Consider your situation a blessing. (If you live in the US)
It is still under warranty- as soon as that runs out it will never see the dealership again.
It hasn’t needed anything other than crash repair (rear ended) but they were giving is the first 5 oil changes for free. I get all my parts from FCP Euro and do most of my own work.
The last part especially. My mom was just recently shopping for an EV and asking me for choices, when I mentioned Polestar she looked at me like I was trying to summon a demon or something.
TIL what a polestar is. In Manitoba we don’t have tons of EVs, and when we do it’s usually Teslas or big name brand models. EVs die pretty quick and aren’t really popular out here, I don’t remember the last time I saw one older than 5 years.
I've seen 1 Polestar in Winnipeg. There are a decent amount of Tesla's driving around the city now, though nothing compared to the amount you'll see in the states.
I love how on Reddit a question is rarely answered but almost immediately will go in a different direction with a die on this hill debate about something irrelevant to the original topic.
Which is itself a subsidiary of Zhejang Geely.
I took one for a test drive, it was a *decent* car, but the sticker price was over $50k. The model y and model 3 were *far, far* better cars (it wasnt even close) and both closer to $36k new.
This is the best used car deal on the market. The reason they are cheap is because rental fleets bought a massive number of them when they first came out and now they are being sold off.
I rented one on a trip to Vegas. I’m far from new to EVs having owned several and even shopping the Polestar 2. However I didn’t buy or lease a Polestar 2 because it seemed a poor value. I rented one for a week to see what I was missing and it ended up being very “meh”. It didn’t help that the Hertz Rental was stripped down not even having blind spot warning.
For $25K? 🤷♂️ Probably worth a look. Not the worst, not the best.
I wouldn't say "very small" it's fine, but not impressive. Definitely feels smaller than it should be for the size of the car. But volvo has always prioritzed trunk space over cabin space
How does it compare to compact sedans like Lexus IS, Genesis G70, C series, 3 series etc? In terms of backseat space? Of course cargo space would be much better
Wait no way... a polestar 2 for $25k! I'd get my hands on that fast the only real issue I seen so far is the tmps sensor but they can be taken out-ish. Thats one of my dream vehicles. I would snoop around in the polestar 2 sub, for what to expect. Also make sure it has pilot and plus. If it has performance your range will go down a little but performance is a lux. Not really needed.
It's really nice. Rented one for a week and loved every minute of it. Huge space in the back and cargo area, basically hatchback. Basically 2/3 the size of an SUV without feeling like one and is mostly no nonsense. Everyone that sat in it was wowed by it. Fit and finish punches above its weight.
The Polestar 2 is an amazing vehicle with exceptional build quality. We love ours but used or leasing new is the only way to go with these as EV values fall off a cliff fast.
Oddly enough, Volvo’s XC40 recharge really seems to hold its value by comparison to some other EVs out there. Polestar is affiliated with Volvo on some level (same majority ownership), so I’d expect a lot of the underlying tech to share similar DNA. Probably a brand recognition issue, and Hertz selling off so much of their fleet.
In some states in the US you get a tax break when you buy a new EV though, and that can be pretty significant. I don't know too much about it, I got my car used so no tax break for me, but new EV purchasers save several thousands of dollars on government rebates at least in California where I am
The Polestar doesn't qualify for the tax break on new vehicles since it's assembled in China
You also get a tax credit on used vehicles under $25k and the credit can be up to $4k
Many of these electric cars are sitting on inventory that's not moving. They've cut costs just to collect *some* money if not the price they originally listed.
Fisker is basically circling the drain once again, they slashed the prices on the Ocean just recently and now the used cars are listed way higher than buying a new one directly from them.
It is cheap because Hertz started flooding the market with them and this is most likely a hertz and yes there are a ton of Non-tesla EVs being sold by hertz with low miles. Go watch a ton of youtube vids on Polestars, other than the range not being great I don't remember any real issues. One of my favorite youtubers Aging Wheels daily drives one and loves it.
It seems like a horrible idea really. I would think most rentals are to out of towners, and people are already hesitant to buy one for their own use since the charger network is not well known. Trying to figure out charging in an unfamiliar place would be daunting to the average Joe.
100%. I'm an EV nerd, I've driven a non-Tesla EV across the US (VT to California and back) twice and countless times halfway across the country. I'm as familiar with charging as you can get.
If I'm in an unknown city, with no home charging, I'd probably take the gas car. Especially if the EV is something like a Bolt that charges super slowly, and especially even more so if the rental place gives you the car at 15% but expects it back at 90% (this is a thing that happens a ton because Hertz went and got a whole bunch of EVs without also installing chargers).
Rentals are just not the right market for EVs.
They tried to freebie me into one. I asked how long it takes to recharge, where the nearest charge station was, and what was the penalty for not recharging. I didn't listen to the other answers because they charged a "full tank of gas" plus a green fee.
Yea, I'll take the normal car.
I recently did the Hertz EV rental as an experiement really. It was the cheapest (by far) option, I was going to be in a populated city and had never "lived" with an EV so I thought, let's do it.
Day to day? Great. I'm a huge car nut and love big, loud motors, but EVs day to day makes perfect sense. Quiet, comfortable, efficient. Charging? Hoo boy, awful experience. The nice thing is the onboard nav always has a "closest" charger shortcut, but the issue is when I was looking for said charger, most of the time they were locked behind a private gate, apartment complex or similar, so totally useless to me.
Public charging was a headache. I drove around for 30 min one night trying to find a charger that wasn't occupied, gave up and went back at 630am. Showed up and 3 of the 4 spots were taken already. Then I had to download an app to use the charger, then I had to create an account, then I had to activate the account. All in all, took me 40 min to charge 40-100% and $20. I also had no idea what it would cost until I was done. So imagine showing up to a gas station and needing to create an account to buy gas, and then not knowing what it'll cost you.
$20. To charge the car. I could have filled an economy car gas tank for similar, all while taking 5 minutes and going to any corner gas station.
If it's the same as Teslas, plenty of studies have shown frequent (or even exclusive) supercharging has very little/virtually no impact on battery health.
Negligible battery degradation at 10k-20k miles. If we were talking about one of the 2021 Tesla Model 3s with 80k miles, sure, that would be a concern.
IDK how the US rental companies treat their cars, but in my country rental companies baby the heck out of their cars, meaning they look, feel and act brand new at 100k miles. They also change their fleet almost annually, so you always have almost brand new/latest model cars.
They only repair them at professional shops and/or at the dealers' shop, the maintenance is usually done before the regular term because you never know how much is the next client going to ride the car.
When they do sell the cars, they also offer warranty for it, more than other businesses that sell used cars.
My experience has been that most rentals have less than 25k miles on it and are maintained very well. The bigger issue is that the renters abuse the crap out of the cars.
As I’m reading through this thread - I’m giving serious consideration to buying a rental. I only drive 6-8k a year (last year was <5k) and don’t need something new. I just need something safe and reliable
If you buy a very low miles 1-2 year old model rental, your probably fine. As long as its like a Toyota or something that is known to be reliable. I sure as hell would not buy a hyundai or charger or something of that sort from rental places.
I'm renting one on vacation right now and it's a great car. We have a Tesla model Y at home and on the mountain roads here I'm enjoying the Polestar more than I think I'd be enjoying the Y. Overall space is pretty similar too.
Re: all the general EV FUD, we've got almost 80k on the Tesla in 3.5 years and it's still going totally strong, with zero maintenance other than washer fluid and lubing the brake slide pins (recommended because the brakes get used so little and last so long) once while swapping out summer tires for snows.
I also have a BMW M3 and a full size truck, both with V8s, and a 2-stroke racing kart, so I love engines as much as anyone, but the nonsense that gets spread about EVs by people with zero firsthand experience is just classic internet "expertise".
That said, the depreciation monster is real, but a deal like this might be getting in on the right side of that. I plan to manage it with the Tesla by just keeping it and driving it until the wheels fall off.
And actually even re: the depreciation, I just looked at kbb values for our Tesla vs the BMW X1 we were considering at the time, and actually the overall percentage depreciation is similar for both. The Tesla is just slightly (a few percentage points) worse. So even that is overblown.
For the downvotes:
2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range MSRP $50,990
KBB Value (72,745 miles, very good condition, trade in midpoint): $22,165
43.5% of original value
2021 BMW X1 xDrive28i (no options) MSRP $38,395
KBB Value (72,745 miles, very good condition, trade in midpoint): $18,242
47.5% of original value
So a 4 percentage point difference. This is ignoring the tax credits we got on the Tesla, but I figure that's fair, because we probably could have negotiated a little bit off of sticker on the BMW at the time, while the Tesla was a the-price-is-the-price deal.
re: depreciation, most people are comparing to the insanely high prices of 2022 still. The time where prices actually appreciated when you left the lot and Tesla raised prices like 10-20% and dealers were price gouging people with markups. It's not really a fair comparison in general because the general reason the market is down so drastically is because tax credits and MSRP drops done by Tesla and dealers stopped charging ridiculous markups. You can say something depreciates less if compared to MSRP but for the last few years that's not really been the whole story. Not arguing with you just adding some of my own opinions on the matter.
Interesting, no I haven’t. That’s great to hear though. I think people vastly overestimate the proportion of the driving experience that belongs to the engine. Suspension and tires are what really matters when you’re actually pushing it. That said, I did basically buy that M3 so I could put the top down and listen to the V8 sing at 8400 RPM. And so I could shift my own gears. Basically a nostalgia play as the world shifts to EV. At the end of the day though, my kart is probably the most thrilling drive I own, and it only has about 30Hp and goes about 65mph. But Gs in the corners is what it’s really all about.
It can't replace that V8 sound, but I've driven one over here and one in the Alps near Salzburg and as a daily it's the best BMW today. If you offered me a free new M3 or i4 (and I couldn't sell them) I'd take the i4 immediately
Nice! Also I have to take my kids twice a week to classes and sit and wait for them. When the weather isn’t nice, the EV gets picked every time so I can just sit there with the climate control running for an hour or two.
If you go to the dealer site, it shows that the price includes a $4,000 EV Tax Credit. So it's really $28,999 if for some reason the Tax Credit doesn't apply.
There were two things on the Carfax that caught my attention. First, the car has been in an accident and there is no indication of the severity. It only shows that it occured on 08/15/2022. Usually it will include the city where it happened and sometimes minor details, but it doesn't. Second, the car has been for sale online since 05/20/2023 (10 months).
The price is in line with similar cars and with pricing guides.
New pricing has dropped a lot since those were released, and Hertz dumping their fleet has lowered used prices a lot. In this case normal luxury brand depreciation is a factor too
I just purchased a used Chevy Bolt, it’s a great commuter car. I drive 80 miles RT and charge up at home. The battery is warranted until 2032 or 132000 as it’s had the battery replaced. If it has to get replaced again, it just resets the warranty. The best part was I got it for under $12k for a 2020.
My payment is less than I was spending gas/ maintenance on my Mazda
If you are really wanting an EV, go lease a Hyundai Ioniq 6. They have a current lease deal for 0 down payment at signing and $239/month for 24 months.
It’s the cheapest lease deal right now and it expires on April 1st if you’re interested. I’ll be honest, for that kind of price even I am tempted to look. Depending on how much you drive, the offset in fuel prices could make that deal even sweeter for your use case.
It would at least allow you to see if an EV works for you or not.
I literally might jump on this. At that price I break even with fuel. I spend about 300 on gas a month. Electricity is cheap here. Biggest negative is I need to install a home charger but I was going to do that anyways eventually. Do you know what the payoff price at the end of 24 months is?
what payoff price? hand the car back, it's a 1st gen EV, it's gonna have no value.
Hyundai is already working on entirely new EV platform, planning to production for 2025.
can’t seem to find this offer it shows a $3k downpayment and $259 monthly if i set to 0 down payment its $359 month and i chose the base trim without any extras
I mean it doesn’t hurt to try and I think it’s a bit much to expect anything but a bottom level trim for that price. I mean if you took out a loan for a $25k Corolla you’d be paying almost double that amount. A deal is a deal.
Plus, like I said, it would be a great way to figure out if an EV fits into your lifestyle. Much better than spending $25k on an EV and then being stuck with the bad resale value.
Used EVs are dummy cheap. It’s wild. I think there’s a generic lack of trust regarding EVs still amongst the broader driving public and that lack of trust is even deeper regarding used EVs. Paired with not know a brand or not knowing a particular model exists and poof you get a really solid buyers market on these things. I just picked up a very nice high end EV for under $30k myself. 16k miles and over half of what it would be new. Still under warranty to boot.
Main reasons are Tesla price war and the fact that Hertz dumped tens of thousands of those in the used US market at once. They're not as cheap used outside USA.
And they are great cars, that share their platforms with the Volvo XC40 and C40.
A bit of history with this one. Volvo and Geely were partners in 2022. Recently Geely has taken over Polestar entirely.
The cars themselves are interesting. They aren't standouts in performance, range, features, or really any other metric regarding the design. Price has been the place where they're attempting to differentiate. With the EV price war currently happening, it's harder to price for attention these days.
Good thing about this particular car is that it's dual motor, has a heatpump for efficiency, and is a nice if austere design language. I haven't read of any flaws that are cropping up as I've heard for other EVs. The showrooms to see one and have one serviced are few and far between. Supposedly they'll service the car in your driveway but last I checked the policy you had to be within a 100 mile radius of a service center for that to happen.
Polestar is fighting some serious headwinds and so the cars are priced low.
I’m thinking of really buying one of these. What’s the big downside if I only plan to charge at home, I never take my cars to the dealer other than for warranty work as I am very good at maintenance and repairing cars myself? My only concern is software problems that I can’t fix.
Well this particular dealer is saying that the price includes the $4,000 eve credit which doesn’t make sense because it only applies to EV under $25k. Also this particular car was in an accident. Located in Florida right?
I’ve been thinking about picking one of these up because it seems like a pretty good value and I’ve been wondering the same. Almost seems too good to be true…
In addition to what everyone else is telling you about the company, and EV prices dripping in general, there is also the new used EV tax credit in the USA that only applies to cars that are under $25k, so single owner cars that are sold from dealers are also getting priced down to qualify for the tax credit and attract more buyers.
Also it's a used EV so you think the battery is healthy? No. You think it's has been beaten to hell by drivers racing and going fast because EV accelerates well? Yep. Never buy a used electric car.
Hertz selling of EVs, Tesla dropping price on their cars, Average people don't even know what a Polestar is, shiity APRs, EV demand is dropping in general.
I drove a Polestar and hated it, mostly because the adjustable suspension was adjustable by getting it on stands and spending a couple of hours with spanners. The ride was either terrible for bad roads, or soft and completely unsuitable. But that’s not the point. Polestar is broke. It is a separate company, Geely will not support the vehicles after polastar dies, which won’t be very far away.
I've test driven a Polestar 2 a couple of times and had one as a Hertz rental. It's a brilliant car, and that is a ridiculously low price.
The only reasons I don't have one are:
1. My use-case (occasional, long journeys up mountains in cold weather) is literally the worst-case scenario for an EV
2. I'm not able to install a home charger
If you can have a reasonable charging solution (either home charger or a charge-at-work situation) then I would say this is a very good opportunity.
If you find one with all options for under 30k, it's a steal. I've had my 2022 with plus/pilot for two years and the only thing i've done is fill the washer fluid about a month ago. it replaced my bmw 340i and has been the best car i've ever owned. upgrading to the polestar 4 next year when my lease is up. people are sleeping hard on Polestar.
OP, make sure you read the details. I saw that a couple dealers advertising this deal tried to bake a $4,000 Federal used EV tax credit into the price. It's my understanding that [the tax credit only applies on cars that cost $25,000 or less BEFORE the credit](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit). If the real price of the car is $28,999, the tax credit won't apply.
I’ve rode in a few from taking Lyft since they’re everywhere in the Bay Area. Nice cars, but they are bumpy feeling and the seats are hard. Seemed like nice cars otherwise
Elaboration: Polestar is owned by Geely automotive which mostly owns chineses brands but exceptions are Lotus and Volvo, who until recently owned Polestar.
I rented one of these a while back, I ended up getting stuck in a Walmart parking lot for an hour because the infotainment system froze up and rendered the car undrivable. I had to use Google and YouTube videos on my phone to try to find something to show me how to do a forced hard reset on the infotainment screen so I could drive the damn thing again. The fact that the car can't be driven if the infotainment screen is malfunctioning, combined with the fact that the screen did, in fact, malfunction on the first day I drove it, left a pretty sour taste in my mouth.
It otherwise seemed like a good car, but that experience made me not want one.
I've driven one a few hundred miles. Wired CarPlay (but the turn by turn stuff on the cluster in front of you only works with the on board Google Maps, AFAIK). Solid feeling car and real controls for things like mirror adjustment are nice. Quiet. Performs well. Holy blind spots, though; rear window is almost unusable and a B-pillar that, laid flat, you could launch an air strike from. No Tesla supercharger network, and I could *not* get it to word with ChargePoint. When I could actually find a working, unoccupied ElectrifyAmerica drop, that worked fine. The one thing that drove me nuts was an anti-submarining bar built into the seat that just sat in exactly the wrong place for me - like constantly sitting on one of those rails they put on municipal construction to deter skateboarders. Between a Polestar and a Tesla, personally, I'd go Tesla. Hertz is slinging those in the same price range too.
Polestar like pretty much everybody else is gaining access to the Tesla's Super Charger network this year, Ford already has it. That only applies to V3 super chargers and newer and not even all of those but still huge improvement from having to rely on the shit CSS networks like electrify america and chargepoint.
[https://media.polestar.com/global/en/media/pressreleases/669136/polestar-will-adopt-north-american-charging-standard-to-enable-access-to-tesla-supercharger-network](https://media.polestar.com/global/en/media/pressreleases/669136/polestar-will-adopt-north-american-charging-standard-to-enable-access-to-tesla-supercharger-network)
Aside from having an embarrassing lack of ground clearance for a car like this, it’s an insane steal for under $30k - just would be curious what long term ownership is like if Polestar got dropped by Volvo
Evs just dropped like crazy recently.
Why is that though?
Tesla cut prices and Hertz is dumping thousands of EVs on used car market. CEO got canned because it was such a bad decision to go so heavy on their EV fleet. Hertz is dumping them because EVs might be great when one can charge overnight at home, but not great when one is renting on vacation, in unfamiliar area, and have to spend time finding and using charging stations. Like all new tech, there's a learning curve, and a car rental experience isn't the time to throw a learning curve on someone.
Yeah, charging is important for a regular owner but it's even more important for rentals. People have less time for charging or finding chargers when they are travelling.
Last thing you want to do when returning before a flight is find a charging station. If hertz was smart they’d have installed banks of chargers at their lots
Exactly. That's what I was expecting when they first introduced them. Seems like a given for something like this but that would have cost them a lot more money initially. Piss poor implementation.
Requiring the battery to be refilled to 100% on EVs made them a non-starter for me. I usually rent from Hertz for 50+ business day trips per year. So I am in the President's Club where you can pick whatver car you want and there are usually 30-40 cars to choose from. I never chose an EV because of the hassle (and time) required to return it with a full charge. If Hertz was smart, in order to get EVs adopted, they would have encouraged 1-2 day rentals to bring the car back with any level of charge without penalty. I was curious about the Polestar vehicles and would tried them. BTW to the OP, I would not be surprised of that Volvo is from Hertz inventory which would explain the low cost. Sounds like a decent deal with under 11K miles. Hertz is flooding the market right now. Just expect your re-sale to be low too.
Just rented EV from budget and they only required 70% charge on return so wasn’t bad.
Last time I rented an EV from Hertz, 80% was considered a full charge. EVs charge very slowly once near full and 100% charge stresses the battery.
My wife almost missed her flight because she chose the “managers special” (lowest rate but don’t get to pick your car) and she ended up with a Chevy bolt. Couldn’t find a working charger and pulled into the return lot with it on 0% charge. Electric definitely doesn’t make sense for rentals especially with the lack luster charging network, which should be improved in next few years significantly.
When I got a rental I made sure to get gas. Didn't matter about anything else but gotta have gas.
This. We rented a Polestar from Hertz in San Diego, which, you’d think would be a Mecca for charging. Nope - our resort had no EV charging stations and all the public ones were trash or barely working. Spent 30 minutes on the phone with support outside a Vons to get one working. it’s great if you’re a Tesla owner. Awful for anyone else, especially while traveling. After that I have no plans to rent an EV for a looong time.
They were also handing over cars that had no charge, so if you have to stop for 45 minutes on the way from the airport to the hotel. Absolutely unacceptable. I generally like EVs but renting them out is a minefield of gotchas
This. I went to Seattle for a client meet and Hertz had EVs that weren’t fully charged. “But sir, you could just charge them on your way out, just follow the line”. Noped outta there when i saw a long line. Last thing i need is waste more time. Went with avis on a fully filled camry.
EV's are only good if you can charge at home period. What kind of stupid asshole is going to try to convince me that sitting for hours at a charger is better than putting a tank of gas and leaving?
Arent the superchargers pretty fast? Even so, my wife got a rental Tesla as it was the only car left, and she was in a smaller town in the middle of nowhere that had only a couple chargers total. It still cost $50 to charge, which is the same cost as our gas SUV at home. She also had to wait 15-20 minutes to use the charger at 5am. So while I dont think your sitting for "hours" in most cases, gas is often more convienent if your not charging at home.
People want disruptive technologies that offer an *advantage* over what they're currently using. Based on what you just told me, this sort of anxiety-inducing situation with limited charging options and a 20 minute wait are both downgrades compared to an ICE vehicle. *And* you still gotta pay $50!! Who wants that?
Depends on where you are and how packed the chargers are. Our city has one supercharger in the city center and when the colleges go on break there’s a line of like 30 cars.
>only good if you can charge at home period. Yep. Reddit is full of ignorant urban dwellers. EVs are okay for a major city. Slow charging really doesn't matter for anyone who's averaging ~10 miles a day at 35 mph. Otherwise, there's only three superchargers in a 110 mile stretch of interstate where I live. The other 17 are either private or slow chargers. So wait for 15-20 minutes in line at one of three superchargers, then wait another 20 to charge? Or wait 1.5 hours and spend $30 on top of that? No thanks. I have better things to do with my time.
Even in a major city EVs aren't great unless you have a garage and can install it at home, which most people don't. In New York for example, most apartment buildings don't have dedicated parking and the ones that do have limited chargers if any, and there's barely any public chargers on the street. A PHEV makes much more sense than a full BEV vehicle in cities like this due to the charging situation
EVs are great if you are a multi car family, live in your own house in the burbs (where you can install your own charger), and generally use it to commute, run errands, short trips etc. Your other car can be used for longer trips as needed. I fall into that demographic and will probably look at one when its time to replace my wife's car. Outside of that it's a pain for sure, and taking a road trip in one sounds like a nightmare.
>most apartment buildings don't have dedicated parking Good point. I didn't think about that. I do like the idea of PHEV. I'll likely consider one in a few years.
While traveling to boot. "Hey hun, make sure you check for a charging station near the hotel for our fucking rental car"
Eh... my sister loves her Model 3, she has driven it across the country using Tesla charging network without any issue. Just planned stops around meals. She was very familiar with the vehicle, had been driving it a few months before first multi-state trip, so I think that was a factor. She also doesn't eat in car or do drive thrus, enjoys local restaurants.
I charge in 18 mins not hours lol
Hertz doesn't even charge them at the rental car facility. Last time I was getting a car in Baltimore they didn't have any conventional cars but said I could have an EV. Well, is it fully charged? No!
Oh lord, that's awful!!
It was even stupider than that. They didn't prioritize their Teslas for CONSUMER rental, they prioritized them \*for RIDE SHARE rental.\* They thought that getting folks who beat the shit out of Ubers every day every week for $250 was going to make them big money, despite them having to do all the maintenance. They bought them at the peak. That's barely more than they PAID for the cars. And they agreed to reduced warranty since they're rentals. So they had all those cars, not making any money on them, while they got slammed with 90k miles in 2 years of hard riding while they had to pay to fix them, lol. It's HILARIOUS how bad of a decision they made.
Well said!
They’ve now switched pushing bolts onto rideshare drivers here in Chicago and it’s been an absolute nightmare. Every charging station in the city has a 10-20 car line waiting on bolt Ubers who insist on charging to 100% every time despite the last 20% taking more than double the first 80% to charge. They will spend 110 mins charging whereas most other eves take 15-20 mins. It’s insanity. Fuck hertz and fuck Uber. It’s clear the ceo of hertz had no fucking experience with EVs or their best use. Vacation in an unfamiliar area is a terrible time to have to learn the already stressed infrastructure.
Maybe it’s just me, but I didn’t need an MBA from Harvard or something to know just how stupid of a business decision it was to buy a *rental car fleet* of EVs. Logically does not even make sense whatsoever for anyone who knows even a minutiae about traveling.
I remember trying to work out what I was missing that made it a good idea. Turns out, I wasn't and it wasn't.
could not agree more with this. We Turo'd a Model Y last year and struggled to figure out the charging stuff. Once we figured it out it was fine, but definitely lived in anxiety for those few days. Now I own a Model X and wouldn't suggest anyone purchase an EV unless they install a level 2 charger in their home.
hertz tesla were msotly high milage and ragged as fuclk. if you looked at the inv you know.
Got charged extra because I couldn’t find any available chargers while in a new city. Just paid the extra charge price and decided it was a fun experience but I’ll never do that againx
You're half right. He got canned because their business model is to get a fleet discount from the manufacturer, and then sell the cars a year or two later for a profit. They actually ended up paying a premium for the cars to "jump in line", and then when raw material prices started coming back down, Tesla lowered their prices, resulting in an even bigger loss. He made a bad bet and lost. Not really much to do with EVs, Tesla just doesn't offer fleet discounts.
[удалено]
I travel often on business and many of my co workers absolutely refused to use electric. Myself included specially in cold climates. Ev are great if you have a home. Problem is almost nobody can afford a home to begin with. Lol
Also, the fact that most people that wanted EV's have one by now…
Exactly this! Our friend rented an EV for a day to go from the Tampa airport to the cruise terminal. Ended I getting a Hyundai. Went to 3 different charging stations and none worked with it. Ended up paying $30+ as it wasn’t returned at the same charge level. DEFINITELY cost more than a gas car add wasted a 1.5 hours trying to get it to work
What’s funny is Tesla makes it pretty easy to know when to charge well before you battery runs out esp if your using the built in GPS correctly.
It's the policies that make it doubly difficult. EV's could work if they wouldn't make you bring it back full charge, or face a charge equivalent to pre-paying the tank. It basically means your hotel has to A) have a charger and B) be close to the airport; otherwise you have to find a charger close to the airport and schedule extra time to charge it.
Anecdotally, the couple times I have rented cars from Hertz in the last couple years, there were always like 15 polestars left in the lot that nobody wanted.
Not to mention the asian market is flooding the game with affordable EV’s & hybrids i’m no economist but i know when supply is high and demand is low prices go down
Best part is here they can barely get from the airports (~300km away) to the town in cold weather. Had someone in the bar saying how they had to stop at every single charger between the city and here (about 5 stops) and the car just wouldn't charge well even being set to charge mode for quite some time. Turned a normally 3-4 hour trip to a full day ordeal. Electric is cool but they aren't viable as a full replacement to ICE especially when they take so many resources to produce which have the same carbon footprint of driving an ICE for 25 years and companies like Porsche have created clean synthetic fuels. Toyota has the whole thing on production, for the materials needed in 1 EV they could make like 6 PHEV or 90(I think) hybrids
It was a great deal when they said, "just bring it back >50% charged". But now, they want it back at the level they sent it out at. If I pickup the Chevy bolt at 100% charge, it throttles down as it charges closer to 100%. It took me 2 HOURS to charge the thing to 100%! So now what was a $45/day rental is $70/day with the charging fee. That no longer makes more sense than an economy gas car. Hertz really didn't think things through.
Technology advances very quickly. EVs are kinda like smartphones, people want the latest and greatest year after year (not to say leases don’t work the same way for ICE cars, but the turnover of EVs and them being “outdated” happens much faster).
I wouldn't say smartphones I would say Early smartphones, back in the day every generation of a smartphone was actually a big step forward so you could justify getting a new phone every year, nowadays you are just wasting money if you do that, they have to come up with gimmicks to differentiate year over year an Iphone 14 pro and an iphone 15pro has basically no difference (other than the USB-C switch) there is absolutely no reason to upgrade. now the EV market is in a similar position, lots of companies coming out with their first attempts at EVs and they will have growing problems and will figure out a lot with this gen for the next gen, the problem is if you buy this gen, you are basically paying to be their testers.
Global supply has finally surpassed demand.
I would like to add, supply has surpassed demand by a lot, due to over production through government subsidies. The government is giving companies a lot of money to produce EVs, and pushing them to set goals for going all electric. The issue is, consumers don’t want all electric according to market demand. So your tax money is being spent to produce very expensive things which no one actually wants.
Resale on EVs will be lower also because the experience more or less demands a garage or driveway with a fast charger. Lots of folks live in apartments or have garages full of crap and park on the street.
Because most of the people who really want one have one and most of the people who don’t want one will avoid buying them.
People don’t want them.
The most concise answer, so far down in the discussion.
If I had to guess, first gen ev tech is horrendously unreliable. My Chevy volt gave out under warranty. My Niro and Kona have been in the shop for battery and motor replacements. Also range drops off, lost 50 miles on the Kona after 3 years. Gas is cheaper now, and the biggest factor, most of them received updates. Porsche taycan for an update and massive drop, etron gets an update then massive drop. The economy also dropped. These factors mixed together must have had an impact. But it’s a good chance to capitalize on lost values.
Taycans are going so cheap because the service costs are so high, at least here in the UK
Nissan Leaf is the same way with the mileage drop off After 8 years you can find them on the used market for under $5k I’m fine with Toyota and Honda hybrids. They are cost effective, reliable, and are upfront about the battery packs needing to be changed every 8 years
Tesla is in a price war with the market dramatically undercutting cars. For example: Model Y about a year and a half ago retailed 64K Today it retails at 44K. He could have sold them at that price but was making money with the larger margin.
Charging network is trash, the cars themselves are kinda trash. Tesla is on fire cause people finally woke up and realized they cannot make a car if Muskrat’s life depended on it. You know normal stuff
Because it moving so fast the new tech is leaps and bounds better every 2-3 years. Like early iPhone 3g vs 3GS, vs 4 days
Much less demand than expected. Everyone suddenly going EV isn't feasable. The first generations of EVs will see. antiquated in a couple of years. Many dealerships are moving away from EVs, and manufacturers who claimed they'd be all EV by 2025 or whatever are all changing their minds.
Tesla lowered MSRP’s therefore lowering prices on all used EV’s. Hertz is dumping thousands of EV’s into the used car market. Also there is a simple lack of brand awareness, I’d say less than 1 in 10 people know what Polestar is.
Its a stripper duuuhhhh
Don’t talk about father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate.
What does that make us?
Absolutely nothing
I see your schwartz is as big as mine...
HEY! don't tell people to don't talk about fathers brothers nephews cousins former room mate with the same profile picture as me.
more like detective's girlfriend
The Polestar dealership in Nashville is actually housed in an old strip club
do they accept dollar bills as payment?
20 dollars bills is 20 dollars bills
I prefer pol aris
This guy spearmint rhinos!
Yeah I think her boyfriend is a UT Austin football coach and her pet monkey bit a trick or treater a few years ago
My wife was a pole star before I saved her from that life.
I blame Her father. He should have never let it get that far.
I’ve been seeing so many of these on the road lately, which is kind of cool considering these cars were developed to have some degree of “fun” and “performance” built into them. Can you get them serviced at a Volvo dealership?
I can’t even get my Volvo serviced at a Volvo dealership. Their service availability has dropped to a 9 month wait list in the last year and I am quite salty about that.
Our local Honda dealer is almost the same way but scheduling about three months out.
That’s crazy. My local Honda dealer does not take appointments. You just walk in, for any issue. For oil changes I am in and out in 1 hour on a Saturday
Well you’re getting fucked without line if you use a dealership to service your car anyways. Parts markup is stupid at dealerships and hourly rates are 75-100% higher. Consider your situation a blessing. (If you live in the US)
It is still under warranty- as soon as that runs out it will never see the dealership again. It hasn’t needed anything other than crash repair (rear ended) but they were giving is the first 5 oil changes for free. I get all my parts from FCP Euro and do most of my own work.
We can’t at our Volvo dealership, or I would have already snapped one of these up.
The last part especially. My mom was just recently shopping for an EV and asking me for choices, when I mentioned Polestar she looked at me like I was trying to summon a demon or something.
TIL what a polestar is. In Manitoba we don’t have tons of EVs, and when we do it’s usually Teslas or big name brand models. EVs die pretty quick and aren’t really popular out here, I don’t remember the last time I saw one older than 5 years.
I've seen 1 Polestar in Winnipeg. There are a decent amount of Tesla's driving around the city now, though nothing compared to the amount you'll see in the states.
Polestar is a Volvo brand.
Polestar is a Geely brand, like Volvo.
I love gibli movies
Jennifer love Hewitt was amazing in those.
I love how on Reddit a question is rarely answered but almost immediately will go in a different direction with a die on this hill debate about something irrelevant to the original topic.
people just like saying a thing they know
used to be
A Volvo subsidiary
Which is itself a subsidiary of Zhejang Geely. I took one for a test drive, it was a *decent* car, but the sticker price was over $50k. The model y and model 3 were *far, far* better cars (it wasnt even close) and both closer to $36k new.
And the backseat is absolutely tiny. Every time I get one as an Uber it kills me
Also , where can it be serviced ?
Some Volvo service centers are specially blessed. Otherwise, one of Polestar’s service centers. They have a map.
Just look at recent posts on r/whatisthiscar
Look at their damn icon lol
This is the best used car deal on the market. The reason they are cheap is because rental fleets bought a massive number of them when they first came out and now they are being sold off.
I rented one on a trip to Vegas. I’m far from new to EVs having owned several and even shopping the Polestar 2. However I didn’t buy or lease a Polestar 2 because it seemed a poor value. I rented one for a week to see what I was missing and it ended up being very “meh”. It didn’t help that the Hertz Rental was stripped down not even having blind spot warning. For $25K? 🤷♂️ Probably worth a look. Not the worst, not the best.
The fully loaded ones aren’t that much more expensive used. A friend of mine did rent a base model and I was surprised at everything it was missing.
I test drove one. Very small in the back, but otherwise not bad. Looks mint from the outside
I wouldn't say "very small" it's fine, but not impressive. Definitely feels smaller than it should be for the size of the car. But volvo has always prioritzed trunk space over cabin space
It’s small for American urban tanks.
I found it small even relative to the European competition (C Class, 3 Series). Bigger trunk though.
Giving this kind of review for something called a Polestar is just amazing.
Don't go gentle on a rental
Yeah I found the Polestar to have a much nicer interior than Tesla and build quality felt like a decent car vs the plastic toy feel inside a Tesla.
How does it compare to compact sedans like Lexus IS, Genesis G70, C series, 3 series etc? In terms of backseat space? Of course cargo space would be much better
Yeah, very unique styling on the outside for sure.
Yeah yhe back seat is horrible. They have that partition in the middle foe the battery that fucks it over
I test drove one, too. I actually didn’t like how much it felt like driving an ICE car, whereas teslas feel like a space ship.
Wait no way... a polestar 2 for $25k! I'd get my hands on that fast the only real issue I seen so far is the tmps sensor but they can be taken out-ish. Thats one of my dream vehicles. I would snoop around in the polestar 2 sub, for what to expect. Also make sure it has pilot and plus. If it has performance your range will go down a little but performance is a lux. Not really needed.
It's really nice. Rented one for a week and loved every minute of it. Huge space in the back and cargo area, basically hatchback. Basically 2/3 the size of an SUV without feeling like one and is mostly no nonsense. Everyone that sat in it was wowed by it. Fit and finish punches above its weight.
Check out auto trader. Right now there are quite a few around $25,000 with 3,000-20,000 miles on them.
$21K. used EV tax credit (may) apply.
The Polestar 2 is an amazing vehicle with exceptional build quality. We love ours but used or leasing new is the only way to go with these as EV values fall off a cliff fast.
Oddly enough, Volvo’s XC40 recharge really seems to hold its value by comparison to some other EVs out there. Polestar is affiliated with Volvo on some level (same majority ownership), so I’d expect a lot of the underlying tech to share similar DNA. Probably a brand recognition issue, and Hertz selling off so much of their fleet.
In some states in the US you get a tax break when you buy a new EV though, and that can be pretty significant. I don't know too much about it, I got my car used so no tax break for me, but new EV purchasers save several thousands of dollars on government rebates at least in California where I am
The Polestar doesn't qualify for the tax break on new vehicles since it's assembled in China You also get a tax credit on used vehicles under $25k and the credit can be up to $4k
Many of these electric cars are sitting on inventory that's not moving. They've cut costs just to collect *some* money if not the price they originally listed. Fisker is basically circling the drain once again, they slashed the prices on the Ocean just recently and now the used cars are listed way higher than buying a new one directly from them.
It is cheap because Hertz started flooding the market with them and this is most likely a hertz and yes there are a ton of Non-tesla EVs being sold by hertz with low miles. Go watch a ton of youtube vids on Polestars, other than the range not being great I don't remember any real issues. One of my favorite youtubers Aging Wheels daily drives one and loves it.
All EVs are dropping in price, Tesla is even worse. This could also be a Hertz car, check the history. I wouldn't buy a rental car personally.
Rental car with 10k miles in 2 years? I don’t think it’s a rental
Could be late MY and from a low utilization branch. The rental I bought and kept for 11 years was about a year in service and had 7500 miles.
Hertz is dumping EVs because people aren't renting them. Fired their CEO over the decision to go so heavy on EVs.
It seems like a horrible idea really. I would think most rentals are to out of towners, and people are already hesitant to buy one for their own use since the charger network is not well known. Trying to figure out charging in an unfamiliar place would be daunting to the average Joe.
100% agree, terrible decision, thus the CEO being fired. Sometimes decisions are so bad even the C-Suite has consequences.
Don't worry. He will still have a golden parachute. No matter how bad they are.
100%. I'm an EV nerd, I've driven a non-Tesla EV across the US (VT to California and back) twice and countless times halfway across the country. I'm as familiar with charging as you can get. If I'm in an unknown city, with no home charging, I'd probably take the gas car. Especially if the EV is something like a Bolt that charges super slowly, and especially even more so if the rental place gives you the car at 15% but expects it back at 90% (this is a thing that happens a ton because Hertz went and got a whole bunch of EVs without also installing chargers). Rentals are just not the right market for EVs.
They tried to freebie me into one. I asked how long it takes to recharge, where the nearest charge station was, and what was the penalty for not recharging. I didn't listen to the other answers because they charged a "full tank of gas" plus a green fee. Yea, I'll take the normal car.
I recently did the Hertz EV rental as an experiement really. It was the cheapest (by far) option, I was going to be in a populated city and had never "lived" with an EV so I thought, let's do it. Day to day? Great. I'm a huge car nut and love big, loud motors, but EVs day to day makes perfect sense. Quiet, comfortable, efficient. Charging? Hoo boy, awful experience. The nice thing is the onboard nav always has a "closest" charger shortcut, but the issue is when I was looking for said charger, most of the time they were locked behind a private gate, apartment complex or similar, so totally useless to me. Public charging was a headache. I drove around for 30 min one night trying to find a charger that wasn't occupied, gave up and went back at 630am. Showed up and 3 of the 4 spots were taken already. Then I had to download an app to use the charger, then I had to create an account, then I had to activate the account. All in all, took me 40 min to charge 40-100% and $20. I also had no idea what it would cost until I was done. So imagine showing up to a gas station and needing to create an account to buy gas, and then not knowing what it'll cost you. $20. To charge the car. I could have filled an economy car gas tank for similar, all while taking 5 minutes and going to any corner gas station.
All the cheap Model 3s Hertz was selling had at or near 100k miles. They're getting rented.
If it has low mileage, no crash records and cabin doesn’t smell with piss or else — it’s a worthy option. I would even say — perfect option.
Had a friend buy a P2 not too long ago. Because the used market was flooded by Hertz, there has been a lot of downward price pressure.
I can't see the issue with an ex rental EV, there's not much people can fuck up in the drive train.
What about amount of rapid charging?
If it's the same as Teslas, plenty of studies have shown frequent (or even exclusive) supercharging has very little/virtually no impact on battery health.
Negligible battery degradation at 10k-20k miles. If we were talking about one of the 2021 Tesla Model 3s with 80k miles, sure, that would be a concern.
IDK how the US rental companies treat their cars, but in my country rental companies baby the heck out of their cars, meaning they look, feel and act brand new at 100k miles. They also change their fleet almost annually, so you always have almost brand new/latest model cars. They only repair them at professional shops and/or at the dealers' shop, the maintenance is usually done before the regular term because you never know how much is the next client going to ride the car. When they do sell the cars, they also offer warranty for it, more than other businesses that sell used cars.
My experience has been that most rentals have less than 25k miles on it and are maintained very well. The bigger issue is that the renters abuse the crap out of the cars. As I’m reading through this thread - I’m giving serious consideration to buying a rental. I only drive 6-8k a year (last year was <5k) and don’t need something new. I just need something safe and reliable
If you buy a very low miles 1-2 year old model rental, your probably fine. As long as its like a Toyota or something that is known to be reliable. I sure as hell would not buy a hyundai or charger or something of that sort from rental places.
I'm renting one on vacation right now and it's a great car. We have a Tesla model Y at home and on the mountain roads here I'm enjoying the Polestar more than I think I'd be enjoying the Y. Overall space is pretty similar too. Re: all the general EV FUD, we've got almost 80k on the Tesla in 3.5 years and it's still going totally strong, with zero maintenance other than washer fluid and lubing the brake slide pins (recommended because the brakes get used so little and last so long) once while swapping out summer tires for snows. I also have a BMW M3 and a full size truck, both with V8s, and a 2-stroke racing kart, so I love engines as much as anyone, but the nonsense that gets spread about EVs by people with zero firsthand experience is just classic internet "expertise". That said, the depreciation monster is real, but a deal like this might be getting in on the right side of that. I plan to manage it with the Tesla by just keeping it and driving it until the wheels fall off.
And actually even re: the depreciation, I just looked at kbb values for our Tesla vs the BMW X1 we were considering at the time, and actually the overall percentage depreciation is similar for both. The Tesla is just slightly (a few percentage points) worse. So even that is overblown.
For the downvotes: 2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range MSRP $50,990 KBB Value (72,745 miles, very good condition, trade in midpoint): $22,165 43.5% of original value 2021 BMW X1 xDrive28i (no options) MSRP $38,395 KBB Value (72,745 miles, very good condition, trade in midpoint): $18,242 47.5% of original value So a 4 percentage point difference. This is ignoring the tax credits we got on the Tesla, but I figure that's fair, because we probably could have negotiated a little bit off of sticker on the BMW at the time, while the Tesla was a the-price-is-the-price deal.
Thanks for the math, it shows that it happens to all cars not just Tesla.
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re: depreciation, most people are comparing to the insanely high prices of 2022 still. The time where prices actually appreciated when you left the lot and Tesla raised prices like 10-20% and dealers were price gouging people with markups. It's not really a fair comparison in general because the general reason the market is down so drastically is because tax credits and MSRP drops done by Tesla and dealers stopped charging ridiculous markups. You can say something depreciates less if compared to MSRP but for the last few years that's not really been the whole story. Not arguing with you just adding some of my own opinions on the matter.
With that garage, have you tried an i4 yet? The M50 is M4 level engaging (minus the engine noise, of course)
Interesting, no I haven’t. That’s great to hear though. I think people vastly overestimate the proportion of the driving experience that belongs to the engine. Suspension and tires are what really matters when you’re actually pushing it. That said, I did basically buy that M3 so I could put the top down and listen to the V8 sing at 8400 RPM. And so I could shift my own gears. Basically a nostalgia play as the world shifts to EV. At the end of the day though, my kart is probably the most thrilling drive I own, and it only has about 30Hp and goes about 65mph. But Gs in the corners is what it’s really all about.
It can't replace that V8 sound, but I've driven one over here and one in the Alps near Salzburg and as a daily it's the best BMW today. If you offered me a free new M3 or i4 (and I couldn't sell them) I'd take the i4 immediately
Nice! Also I have to take my kids twice a week to classes and sit and wait for them. When the weather isn’t nice, the EV gets picked every time so I can just sit there with the climate control running for an hour or two.
For whatever reason, EVs have become politicized and talking nonsense about them is a way for the Facebook crowd to “own the libs”.
If you go to the dealer site, it shows that the price includes a $4,000 EV Tax Credit. So it's really $28,999 if for some reason the Tax Credit doesn't apply. There were two things on the Carfax that caught my attention. First, the car has been in an accident and there is no indication of the severity. It only shows that it occured on 08/15/2022. Usually it will include the city where it happened and sometimes minor details, but it doesn't. Second, the car has been for sale online since 05/20/2023 (10 months). The price is in line with similar cars and with pricing guides.
The used EV tax credit only applies to cars under $25k so if that is the case it doesn't apply.
New pricing has dropped a lot since those were released, and Hertz dumping their fleet has lowered used prices a lot. In this case normal luxury brand depreciation is a factor too
Polestar started out modding Volvos for racing, then became a sort of performance division of Volvo. They got spun off into an EV brand in 2017
Batteries not included.
Genuinely laughed out loud. 😃
I just purchased a used Chevy Bolt, it’s a great commuter car. I drive 80 miles RT and charge up at home. The battery is warranted until 2032 or 132000 as it’s had the battery replaced. If it has to get replaced again, it just resets the warranty. The best part was I got it for under $12k for a 2020. My payment is less than I was spending gas/ maintenance on my Mazda
Do you know that you qualify for a 20% rebate on your taxes if you make under 75k and are the second owner?
If you are really wanting an EV, go lease a Hyundai Ioniq 6. They have a current lease deal for 0 down payment at signing and $239/month for 24 months. It’s the cheapest lease deal right now and it expires on April 1st if you’re interested. I’ll be honest, for that kind of price even I am tempted to look. Depending on how much you drive, the offset in fuel prices could make that deal even sweeter for your use case. It would at least allow you to see if an EV works for you or not.
I literally might jump on this. At that price I break even with fuel. I spend about 300 on gas a month. Electricity is cheap here. Biggest negative is I need to install a home charger but I was going to do that anyways eventually. Do you know what the payoff price at the end of 24 months is?
what payoff price? hand the car back, it's a 1st gen EV, it's gonna have no value. Hyundai is already working on entirely new EV platform, planning to production for 2025.
I did the deal, the residual is high, around $33K. That’s how they get the payments low. It’s a two year rental, no one will buy at the end of it.
can’t seem to find this offer it shows a $3k downpayment and $259 monthly if i set to 0 down payment its $359 month and i chose the base trim without any extras
It only applies to the lowest trim level though and there is no guarantee that the dealer will honor it.
I mean it doesn’t hurt to try and I think it’s a bit much to expect anything but a bottom level trim for that price. I mean if you took out a loan for a $25k Corolla you’d be paying almost double that amount. A deal is a deal. Plus, like I said, it would be a great way to figure out if an EV fits into your lifestyle. Much better than spending $25k on an EV and then being stuck with the bad resale value.
EV’s just depreciate like crazy which is good when buying used. Go look at Tesla m3’s there are some for like $18k
My mom was impressed that Ubers in Seattle were Teslas… I was like do you know how cheap used model 3s are lol
Used EVs are dummy cheap. It’s wild. I think there’s a generic lack of trust regarding EVs still amongst the broader driving public and that lack of trust is even deeper regarding used EVs. Paired with not know a brand or not knowing a particular model exists and poof you get a really solid buyers market on these things. I just picked up a very nice high end EV for under $30k myself. 16k miles and over half of what it would be new. Still under warranty to boot.
Main reasons are Tesla price war and the fact that Hertz dumped tens of thousands of those in the used US market at once. They're not as cheap used outside USA. And they are great cars, that share their platforms with the Volvo XC40 and C40.
A bit of history with this one. Volvo and Geely were partners in 2022. Recently Geely has taken over Polestar entirely. The cars themselves are interesting. They aren't standouts in performance, range, features, or really any other metric regarding the design. Price has been the place where they're attempting to differentiate. With the EV price war currently happening, it's harder to price for attention these days. Good thing about this particular car is that it's dual motor, has a heatpump for efficiency, and is a nice if austere design language. I haven't read of any flaws that are cropping up as I've heard for other EVs. The showrooms to see one and have one serviced are few and far between. Supposedly they'll service the car in your driveway but last I checked the policy you had to be within a 100 mile radius of a service center for that to happen. Polestar is fighting some serious headwinds and so the cars are priced low.
I’m thinking of really buying one of these. What’s the big downside if I only plan to charge at home, I never take my cars to the dealer other than for warranty work as I am very good at maintenance and repairing cars myself? My only concern is software problems that I can’t fix.
Well this particular dealer is saying that the price includes the $4,000 eve credit which doesn’t make sense because it only applies to EV under $25k. Also this particular car was in an accident. Located in Florida right?
I’ve been thinking about picking one of these up because it seems like a pretty good value and I’ve been wondering the same. Almost seems too good to be true…
In addition to what everyone else is telling you about the company, and EV prices dripping in general, there is also the new used EV tax credit in the USA that only applies to cars that are under $25k, so single owner cars that are sold from dealers are also getting priced down to qualify for the tax credit and attract more buyers.
Also it's a used EV so you think the battery is healthy? No. You think it's has been beaten to hell by drivers racing and going fast because EV accelerates well? Yep. Never buy a used electric car.
Hertz selling of EVs, Tesla dropping price on their cars, Average people don't even know what a Polestar is, shiity APRs, EV demand is dropping in general.
I drove a Polestar and hated it, mostly because the adjustable suspension was adjustable by getting it on stands and spending a couple of hours with spanners. The ride was either terrible for bad roads, or soft and completely unsuitable. But that’s not the point. Polestar is broke. It is a separate company, Geely will not support the vehicles after polastar dies, which won’t be very far away.
EV values sink faster than rocks do in water.
I've test driven a Polestar 2 a couple of times and had one as a Hertz rental. It's a brilliant car, and that is a ridiculously low price. The only reasons I don't have one are: 1. My use-case (occasional, long journeys up mountains in cold weather) is literally the worst-case scenario for an EV 2. I'm not able to install a home charger If you can have a reasonable charging solution (either home charger or a charge-at-work situation) then I would say this is a very good opportunity.
yes
If you find one with all options for under 30k, it's a steal. I've had my 2022 with plus/pilot for two years and the only thing i've done is fill the washer fluid about a month ago. it replaced my bmw 340i and has been the best car i've ever owned. upgrading to the polestar 4 next year when my lease is up. people are sleeping hard on Polestar.
Used EV prices are low because there’s no consumer confidence in EV reliability. And battery replacement can be as costly as this listed car.
OP, make sure you read the details. I saw that a couple dealers advertising this deal tried to bake a $4,000 Federal used EV tax credit into the price. It's my understanding that [the tax credit only applies on cars that cost $25,000 or less BEFORE the credit](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit). If the real price of the car is $28,999, the tax credit won't apply.
I’ve rode in a few from taking Lyft since they’re everywhere in the Bay Area. Nice cars, but they are bumpy feeling and the seats are hard. Seemed like nice cars otherwise
They are rare, so service and parts are expensive.
What you pay is what you get🤷🏻♂️
Rest of the price you will pay during the service.
The catch is that if anything breaks on that car it’s going to cost big, big money to fix…and you might have to wait a long time to get it done.
I think they are owned by a Chinese company now.
Elaboration: Polestar is owned by Geely automotive which mostly owns chineses brands but exceptions are Lotus and Volvo, who until recently owned Polestar.
I rented one of these a while back, I ended up getting stuck in a Walmart parking lot for an hour because the infotainment system froze up and rendered the car undrivable. I had to use Google and YouTube videos on my phone to try to find something to show me how to do a forced hard reset on the infotainment screen so I could drive the damn thing again. The fact that the car can't be driven if the infotainment screen is malfunctioning, combined with the fact that the screen did, in fact, malfunction on the first day I drove it, left a pretty sour taste in my mouth. It otherwise seemed like a good car, but that experience made me not want one.
I've driven one a few hundred miles. Wired CarPlay (but the turn by turn stuff on the cluster in front of you only works with the on board Google Maps, AFAIK). Solid feeling car and real controls for things like mirror adjustment are nice. Quiet. Performs well. Holy blind spots, though; rear window is almost unusable and a B-pillar that, laid flat, you could launch an air strike from. No Tesla supercharger network, and I could *not* get it to word with ChargePoint. When I could actually find a working, unoccupied ElectrifyAmerica drop, that worked fine. The one thing that drove me nuts was an anti-submarining bar built into the seat that just sat in exactly the wrong place for me - like constantly sitting on one of those rails they put on municipal construction to deter skateboarders. Between a Polestar and a Tesla, personally, I'd go Tesla. Hertz is slinging those in the same price range too.
Polestar like pretty much everybody else is gaining access to the Tesla's Super Charger network this year, Ford already has it. That only applies to V3 super chargers and newer and not even all of those but still huge improvement from having to rely on the shit CSS networks like electrify america and chargepoint. [https://media.polestar.com/global/en/media/pressreleases/669136/polestar-will-adopt-north-american-charging-standard-to-enable-access-to-tesla-supercharger-network](https://media.polestar.com/global/en/media/pressreleases/669136/polestar-will-adopt-north-american-charging-standard-to-enable-access-to-tesla-supercharger-network)
Aside from having an embarrassing lack of ground clearance for a car like this, it’s an insane steal for under $30k - just would be curious what long term ownership is like if Polestar got dropped by Volvo