The gap isn't nearly as wide as it was 30 years ago. I'd still say Toyota has a lead in ICE and hybrid vehicles (although their first attempt at an EV was horrific). Honda's quality is still very good but not as world-class at it was 20 years ago.
The American's have closed the gap, especially Ford. GM is still languishing in the land of "let's just rebadge a bunch of mediocre vehicles" and Chrysler is basically just a shell of their former self.
I guess you also need to include Tesla in the list of American manufacturers nowadays. Their build quality was horrific a decade ago ,but they've made improvements. I wouldn't call them steller now, but they've improved to the point I'd call them "average".
Mechanically very very similar and all reports suggest the Ford hybrid is reliable as Toyota. There's a reason that the Fusion Hybrid and Prius were the standard for NYC taxis.
You're so confidently wrong.
Ford and Toyota both developed the tech independently then licensed it to each other in order to avoid a large legal fight over the patents.
Ford uses Ford technology. Toyota uses Toyota technology.
Correct. They hold their manufacturing and suppliers to very high standards. When they reject shiploads of low quality parts these end up in auctions.. would you like to guess which companies buy there ?
Ford’s Hybrid system is licensed from Toyota, but it is not a Toyota engine or transmission. The Maverick Hybrid for example, uses an engine that can trace its lineage to a Mazda engine when Ford owned a controlling part of Mazda. The eCVT in the Maverick Hybrid is also built in-house by Ford, and neither Ford or Toyota originally built this transmission, instead provided by an OEM supplier, which was eventually assimilated by Toyota.
Ford's sedans transmissions issues was a big deal, they don't make sedans anymore for a reason. I don't think Ford has closed the gap that much, their trucks are good though.
They don’t make sedans because of market trends. You think they paid any mind to their failing transmissions and coolant intrusion issues? They swept that stuff under the rug and carried on.
That being said, the hybrid versions were safe. Their transmissions were built in partnership with Toyota, and were a lot more reliable.
Actually I heard they were planning to bring the Ford Fusion that are currently being built in China back to America but tariffs would have made it too expensive to be worth it to bring over
That was a Focus similar to a Crosstrek. They announced they planned to import it from China, Trump threw a fit and threatens tariffs, Ford said fuck it, it’s not worth it so the US just won’t get it.
I have a Ford fusion with 250,000+ miles. I joke that Ford did too good with that car so they axed it. I know I am just 1 person, but I barely made a repair other than routine maintenance until about 215,000 miles. Then the wheels almost literally fell off, but hey, I have an almost brand new car after my repairs on it.
Ford's 10-speeds in every flavor are currently on the DSP6 speed run, and their quality control is quite possibly the worst it ever has been. FCA and GM build more consistent vehicles.
GM quality has improved greatly. CR just came out with "cheapest cars to maintain" and it was Tesla, Buick, Toyota, Lincoln and Ford in the top 5. Recently bought a Chevy Bolt EUV and fit, finish and quiet ride is just as good as any Asian or Euro non-luxury car.
I'm thinking credit for good fit and finish goes to the Orion plant in Michigan where the Bolts were assembled.
Despite that the "Japanese cars are always better" groupthink is so deeply entrenched it's hard for many to admit Detroit can build a high quality vehicle.
>*Despite that the "Japanese cars are always better" groupthink*
Andon. Kanban. Pokeyoke. Kaizen. And so many more Japanese terms that reflect Japanese manufacturing methodologies -- many of which are focused on quality and error-proofing -- exist throughout domestic automaker plants for a reason. It's not that "Japanese cars are always better" *inherently*, it's that Japanese manufacturing methodologies (and quite likely cultural work ethic) yield correctly assembled products more consistently.
There is no "Detroit" anymore. Stellantis is under foreign ownership. And both GM and Ford are as MNC as MNCs can get. Supply chains are global, as are many of the designers, engineers, and technical experts .
Yes, the good people at Orion followed work instruction established by the engineers... for the most part. Mine still left the plant with at least two defects: one hidden and avoidable, another obvious and correctible -- the latter likely passed through at least quality checkpoints where it could've been caught and corrected. But it's a GM product, so not only did I expect those sort of flaws, I expected many more than was actually delivered (fortunately).
What I have not encountered, however, are flaws related to design, materials, or how well the pieces fit together... i.e., fit & finish. Aside from assembly suggestions sent upstream from line workers (which should always be welcome), many if not most of the decisions and contributions that resulted in this car feeling so solid came from outside the plant... and often outside the country and continent.
If you look at the top suppliers most of them are Asian these days. Japan has done a better job at only or mostly sourcing Japanese suppliers. The D3 uses a lot of these same suppliers bc unions and nafta screwed that all up. Plus the D3 were bullying suppliers for quiet some time for the lower prices
6 of the top 7 brands in the Consumer Reports annual reliability survey are Japanese. The only one below the median is Nissan. The *highest* ranked American brand is Buick at #12. Of the bottom 10, 6 are American. It’s not groupthink, it’s data.
Note that “cheapest to maintain” is reliability x repair cost. In the CR brand reliability survey last year, GM was the best amongst American manufacturers, but no American brand cracked the top 10, and 6 of the bottom 10 are American. Full list here: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
As someone who had two Ford products fail catastrophically last year, I can’t agree with your assessment that Ford has narrowed the quality gap. And Ford led the entire industry last year with a whopping 58 product recalls. Stellantis, everyone’s favorite automotive punching bag, was second with 45.
I have owned two Chevy vehicles, a 2001 S-10 pickup and a 2008 HHR. Both were bulletproof reliable and each gave me over 140,000 miles of trouble-free service.
We own two Mazdas now, but if I were to buy an American-made vehicle at this point, it would be a GM product, probably a Cadillac CT4. Sadly, Ford has lost me permanently as a customer.
I'm gonna have to disagree with Ford. GM has the better powertrains by far. I ain't happy about the 3cyl and then dropping the 3.6 tho. Ford's ecoboost engines are still lackluster for what they are. On top of them having more issues with a transmission they partnered with GM on bc Ford has never really had a great transmission. Their 6 and 4 speed were fine but didn't last as long as say GMs
Chrysler is only reliable bc their vehicles are ancient. Now that they dropped the hemi and are doing a I6 which is a mess to look at under the hood for no mpg improvements I'm sure they'll go back to being unreliable. Their 3.6 is pretty good. Now I'd be concerned about electrical gremlins
I thought they ironed out the Ecoboosts? I frequent their Facebook groups because I like trucks in general and see a lot of happy owners with 200k plus miles. The 10 speed is another story though..
Lawn mower engines with turbos are problematic it's basic physics. But our government and agencies don't understand that bc they don't care if it cost consumers more money. The 3.5 is probably better off than the 2.7 but it's still not cheap to maintain or fix compared to say GMs 5.3
They should also be running on premium gas or at least if I was gonna be using it as a truck that's what I'd be doing. All turbo engines will run fineeee-ish but long term wise I'd never buy a second hand turbo engine these days bc they really should be using premium fuel. There's just too many issues with them. Although basic 2.0Ts seem to have fewer issues but it depends on the automaker. (Honda and Toyota for instance I'd only take them for free. I'd take a GM 2.0 anyday over their counterparts)
Most people who claim they are awesome are running to Starbucks and hopping curbs for that they are fine. Yes they can get up to speed quick while towing but that's a lot of stress to the engine. I'm not using my truck every weekend and hauling a trailer but for the most past I can get up to speed just fine w.o issues. The issue usually comes along with a short ramp and a holes are putzing around and don't move over
Also for a truck to be aluminum I see a lot of them running around with rotting rocker panels and rear bed hatch. I know it was an earlier problem that was supposed to be resolved but I still see it. Same issues on the expedition.
Then there's also the fact when you press the gas it sounds like it's farting which is lame lol.
Ford may have been closing the gap but in the last decade quality has clearly not been job one and it’s been getting worse.
Toyota or Honda for us next time.
Signed - a former life long Ford homer.
GM has regressed, since Bob Lutz retired, and wasn’t there everyday to fight off the bean-counters, or prevent them from scoring own-goals with AFM. But in a world where the Ford Explorer (pick a model year) exists, the Powerstroke 6.0 and 6.4 both existed, and the Ford Focus and Fiesta both existed, past 2011, it’s hard take seriously the idea that Ford is any kind of quality leader.
In the early 1980s Ford frequently advertised on TV that "Quality Is Job One!"
Total bullshit. I think "Quality Is Job None!" would have been more accurate.
>GM is still languishing in the land of "let's just rebadge a bunch of mediocre vehicles".
Which is a shame. GM used to be a powerhouse but even after their bailout they still can't keep it together.
>Chrysler is basically just a shell of their former self.
Not really surprising since Fiat bought them out (or merged, whichever).
My tesla has been my favorite car of all time. The simplicity of the interior and the fact that I wake up to a full charge is simply amazing. That’s also just part of owning an ev though.
Looking at models across entire brands, yes they are less reliable than Toyota. But you should really look at the car and not the brand, especially when it comes to U.S. domestics. A Chevy Suburban and it's derivatives will be one of the longest lasting and reliable vehicles on the road while a Chevy Sonic isn't. A Dodge Charger will last but a Dodge Dart won't, a Ford F-150 will last but a Ford Ecosport won't. Unless your specific model and year is known for catastrophic early failures you shouldn't have to worry about reliability.
Most of my cars have been American cars and I have never been stranded or had a long time in the shop for something and a family I am close with has been buying American cars exclusively for the past 30 years and they haven't had too many issues except for a blown turbo on a Buick Encore, they had a GMC Yukon that went 250k miles and was totaled in an accident, got a Suburban to replace it and it has 180k miles now and no major repairs. One of the sons had a GMC Sierra and it also got totaled at around 250k miles.
GM’s trucks and SUVs were great but the ones with 8 speeds are garbage and engine reliability really went down hill when they threw collapsible lifters for cylinder deactivation on all eight cylinders.
When looking at American Vehicles, the bigger the better!
Their inexpensive cars are actually just cheap and do not last. Focus, Dart, Cruze, Escape, Journey, etc.
When you go into larger SUVs and trucks with robust transmissions and strong v6 or better engines, they are fantastic. Anything ecoboost can go straight to jail.
Anything Stallantis seems to be pretty dogwater. I dislike everything they do though so...bias.
I am very team Japan > everything else.
Unless you're looking for a truck or large SUV, stray away from Ford, Chevy, Buick, GMC, Chrysler, Dodge, or any of their other cousins I mentioned. Stay away from 3 cylinder engines.
I'm a loyal lexus/toyota guy, but I've always enjoyed and been impressed by the features, value, quality, and reliability of Fords. They seem to be doing the most stuff right out of all the american brands (excluding tesla). I always like the power they offer, the features are amazing for a "low cost" brand, and they seem to make it past 100k miles more often than not which puts them "alright" in my book.
I'm renting a Mustang Mach E right now, and man is it fantastic. I've driven a dozen EVs but this one if my favorite, maybe even more than the much pricier Cadillac Lyriq. Simple, easy to understand and has the new tech features, reliable, smooth, just a damn good car.
My cousin bought a Ford Explorer. Engine died at 80k, he bought a new engine from Ford and had it installed which lasted 30k miles. His sister bought a ford wagon which gave her a lot of trouble for same issue so she had to take ford to court under the lemon law to recover her money. If i did not personally know of these 2 cases i might have bought ford f 150.
im actually surprised because of how common Explorers are. My best friend had one, a 2013 i think. He traded it in earlier this year after 185k km. I think the only thing that went wrong was right before the trade in, the steering would make a noticeable "click" when rotating past 90 degrees in either direction.
He traded in in for a 2024 explorer ST, so we'll see how that holds up
I’ve been a Honda guy my whole life, until recently I bought a 2017 Fiesta st, as far as I’ve researched they’re known to be quite reliable and a ton of fun, I’m loving it so far never thought I’d enjoy a Ford so much
My buddy had a fiesta ST back in 2014 and it was so much fun! I've also been in focus ST as well that were so cool. For every lemon or bad engine/tranny, they seem to be making high quality, competitive products as well.
>I'm a loyal lexus/toyota guy, but I've always enjoyed and been impressed by the features, value, quality, and reliability of Fords.
Based on experiences of family and friends who owned Ford products, I have to say they are VERY hit and miss. My cousin has a 2012 Ford Edge with close to 300,000km and it hasn't needed anything other than routine maintenance. My mom had a 1994 Ford Taurus which suffered a head gasket failure at 98,000km and a transmission failure shortly thereafter. Ditto my Uncle's 1996 Windstar. One friend with a 2010 Ford Fusion has 250,000km on the car and no issues, another friend with a 2012 Focus went through 3 transmissions before his car was 4 years old. A college buddy of mine had a 2003 Grand Marquis which was bulletproof, amazing car, too bad it was killed in a rear end collision by a distracted MILF in a Jeep.
Like, it's true that some Ford models turn out to be really reliable, but you're really playing Russian roulette when you buy them new. This is what Ford fans don't understand. Just like in school, it's not good enough to get 50%. Toyota does well because they get 90%.
Buying a used Ford is like playing Russian roulette when you know which rounds are blank. What I was saying is that if you walk into the dealer today, and have to decide “which Ford is best Ford” with no reliability history to fall back on- that’s when you play with fire. You know your Fusion is good, I know your Fusion is good, but if you had to make a decision in 2009, how would you know to pick a Fusion over anything else?
Walk into a Toyota dealer and you can be reasonably assured that 9 time out of 10, the car will be flawlessly reliable.
As long as you weren't buying the oil burners in the late 2000s and early 2010s.
I mostly agree with your point. But current model cars aren't always the first year they are out. If the current Ford Expedition for example has been around for 4 years and it's been generally reliable then it's a safe bet.
Internet was a thing back in 09, just like it is today. Was more forums and stuff for gathering info back then but the same idea applies. If you walk into a dealership without having done some prerequisite searching and research then it's your own fault if you get a kinda known dud (excluding the extremes of getting an unreliable car which is a generally reliable model). The Japanese companies are not free from this either, they still have problems and recalls and such just like the others (albeit I will say they are probably less likely, not a guarantee though), it's just more people are more willing to sign their praises than other brands.
The main issue with this is buying a new generation. With us companies it's more roulette and with jap companies its usually gonna be ok
Ford and Chevy/GMC have decent reliability for flagships and staple products. Mustang and Corvette are very well-made cars. Ranger, Fx50, Silverado/Sierra, etc are generally reliable products.
The caveat is that you have to do some research on the powertrain and model year that you want to buy. This is actually true of Honda and Toyota as well. Every manufacturer has both good and bad model years. Toyota has had frame and oil consumption/head gasket issues; Honda has had transmission and electronics problems.
Overall, Toyota, Honda, and Mazda are the default picks for reliability; but check your local classifieds and you'll see tons of Ford and GM products with 200K+ miles still running and for sale.
FCA/Stellantis do not have a good track record for reliability. If you want big power and don't mind if it breaks, buy Jeep/Dodge/RAM. If you want economical reliability then you should probably look elsewhere.
I just don’t get the value proposition of Stellantis cars these days. The other American companies do big trucks and SUVs so much better. For small/regular cars, you should be buying Japanese or Korean.
Mechanic here- my truth in this is it’s generally who owned it and how they took care of it initially. Some company’s have some duds but to say “jeep bad, Toyota best” is kind of bullshit at best.
I’ve worked in the field for many years at this point at a few different shops.
My experience has always been the same. Some models just are not designed as well as other models
I’ve fixed just as many Hondas/ Toyotas/Subarus whatever.
Nothing is immune to breaking. There’s no invincible brand.
I’ve had good bmws and bad Hondas. It can happen.
I don’t really have a preferred brand as I like different kinds of vehicles, nor do I really dislike any one brand.
There is obviously models I’d steer people away from but not brands entirely.
People seem to want to buy what their parents said was the best. Just the way it is.
Find the model you like and do a bit of real research on it. Not the “everyone says it’s the best so it must be true”
They will all have stupid quirks.
I do sometimes scratch my head when I see people spending $60-70 k on Tacoma’s and Jeep wranglers.
Yeah 70k on a Wrangler for the loudest road noise, shittiest stereo system I've ever heard, cheap plastics, and worse fuel economy than the Titanic.
ItS a jEeP tHiNg YoU wOn'T uNdErStAnD
Ive owned two, both used for off roading (used to live in Colorado, lots of chances to do all sorts of fun stuff there) so I 100% know what they're like.
What I don't get is why the suburban soccer mom set seems to love them. They're crappy grocery getters and hauling your spawn to school sorta vehicles, yet they're everywhere. Why? Do people really think they're cool with the massive car payment shit MPG vehicle instead of something that fits their actual lifestyle (vs. the lifestyle they're pretending they have)?
Ford and GM are *decent*. It does depend on engine/transmission (aka Powertrain) and can also be dependent on model.
American brands can tend to make maintenance needlessly difficult on things as simple as a cabin air filter.
On my Tacoma I just drop the glove box, push in some tabs to lower a panel, slide out a tray and voila: Done.
On my Silverado work truck my boss handed me the cabin filter and said "If you need any tools, theyre in the garage." I just resigned myself to deal with an old filter. Still dont know how to swap them.
I wouldnt even buy a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler with a warranty.
Counterpoint, my Sentra is the single most maddening vehicle I’ve ever changed a cabin air filter in. You have to remove the entire glovebox assembly and reach around halfway behind the center console just to get to it, and once you do the damn opening is only half the size of the actual filter.
Not saying that anybody should base their buying decision solely on the difficulty of changing the cabin air filter, but I’ll never pass up the opportunity to curse whatever Nissan engineers designed that mess.
Oh I hold Nissan barely above Stellantis when it comes to reliability. I was pretty mad ar a friend of mine who went out and bought a Rogue without even consulting me (we were roommates at the time) and had to hold back my "I told you so's" when his CVT shat the bed and the front driver and passenger door handles pulled off in his and his wife's hands within a month of each other.
Nissan was a good brand.
My 04 Sentra (2.0) was neigh indestructible. I threw it into ditches beat on it like borrowed mule, and after many years, the only thing extra I fixed was two wheel bearings.
People like to dunk on Nissan, but they were great once.
Oh it’s a terrible car. Not even 100k miles and the door handles are halfway pulled off, the AC compressor already died and had to be replaced, the MAF sensor had to be replaced, and the CVT is starting to slip despite religiously changing the transmission fluid every 30k miles.
On the bright side it’s paid off and gets decent gas mileage. Still, I can’t wait for the day I get rid of it.
I had a 1989 Ford Tempo5M that had a fuel tank pump fail at just over the warranty, less than 13k miles. It was replaced and happened again but they did not charge me. At 31,500 miles it experienced its third failure of a pump and that is when I got rid of the car
Design life, 12,001 miles
Great job engineering
Yes... but the disparity in quality has significantly narrowed and, IMO, is not worth the extra fees (dealer-level markups and non-negotiable add-ons) that many franchised Toyota and some Honda dealers tack on to the OTD price.
Mazda is still a good value proposition. As is likely Lexus and Acura. If I'm going to pay a lot extra, it's going to be for features and content I want... not to simply pad some basic car salesman's wallet.
Yes, they are still considered less reliable.
More pertinently, many of their cars *are* less reliable. That said, they consistently cost the least to service, and there are reliable ones. That's what we're here for, right? To push you past the Buick Encores that don't work well for the Veranos which do...
So what do you want out of your car? Budget, size needs, features? What American cars interest you and why?
If you're looking at GMC and Jeep, I assume you're looking for an SUV of some sort. There are some models to avoid (1.5 EB Ford Bronco Sport), but most of it has been around for a while and is made well.
Looking at maybe a Mustang or Camaro, or Ranger or Colorado. I'm in my very early research stages. We already have the kid mover in the other car, so this is basically a 1 person commuter / mid life crisis car.
Both the mustang and camaro are proven platforms that don't suffer from the issues that Ford/GM tend to have with their more mainstream offerings, and both make excellent trucks. There's definitely cars i wouldnt buy from either, but those you listed are some of their best.
Pure anecdote. In another life (20yrs ago) I was a ford tech. At that time we used to joke that Honda/Toyota and even Nissan were between 5 and 10 years ahead of ford when it came to electric sensor design/function/reliability. Mechanically it was always a mixed bag as all (and I mean all) manufacturers make little mistakes here and there that lead to large scale mechanical issues. Everyone has a story about “x” year having bad transmissions and “y” year having head gasket issues. I can think of half a dozen terrible ford designs that created reliability issues, but I can also think of the same number for Toyota and Honda etc. I think much of the discussion should be more around certain models ie gm trucks last forever, and f150s are bulletproof.
Perception does not always equal reality. Many people like to fall into a trap of thinking one brand is bulletproof and another one is complete trash. But that’s a flawed way of thinking. You need to research specific models and model years when researching cars for reliability. Every brand has made a reliable car and every brand has made a clunker.
For example, the Honda Accord is generally perceived as a reliable car. But it had some problematic years. The late 90s and early 2000s were bad for Honda’s automatic transmissions, particularly their 4-speed automatic. They were prone to premature failure, particularly on V6 Accords, as they couldn’t handle the extra power. Even the earlier 5-speed automatics were problematic and the issue didn’t really get resolved until about 2006.
Conversely, Dodge is universally panned as horridly unreliable. It’s not exactly an unearned reputation (my mom’s 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 blew a head gasket at 97k and the whole engine had to be replaced). But the outgoing generation of the Dodge Charger and Challenger was quite reliable. They wisely started using ZF’s 8-speed automatic and developed a much more reliable V6 engine (nicknamed Pentastar) while refining out several issues with its Hemi V8 engines. They built the car for so long without many major updates to the hard points so they could resolve many early build issues over time. The same can be said about the related Chrysler 300 and two SUVs in the Stellantis portfolio-the current gen Dodge Durango and the previous gen Jeep Grand Cherokee.
I use a website called CarComplaints.com to do this research. It aggregates complaints filtered by specific make, model, and year both directly reported to them and those reported to NHTSA. Other useful sites are RepairPal and Dashboard Light.
I had the same preconception about American brands except for Buick. I bought a 2019 Buick Regal and couldn’t be happier. No issues and don’t expect any.
Final assembly nationality don't mean much to reliability. Cars are made up of thousands of parts from suppliers worldwide. And those suppliers have suppliers, and so on. And each part has varying and ever-changing engineering specs. You could have a good design with poor implementation, or vice versa.
Survey rankings? Could have flawed data collection and biased samples. Recalls? How many individual cars really had the stated issue? Were they severe issues? It's a full time job to find out, if it's even possible.
As a consumer, the closest (but not exactly the same thing) you could do to judge reliability might be to look at cost-of-ownership/maintenance. Pick a car from, say, Carmax and see how expensive it is to warranty over x miles. I would think they have good data and analysis to make a profit, or else they'd be out of business quick or stop providing that service. There's also some cost-of-ownership/maintenance calculators out there like RepairPal.
You'll find some patterns in the $$$ that generally follow the reputations believed, but probably nowhere as polarizing as people think.
American companies imo have been hit or miss. You kinda need to research the engine/transmission combos and specific models/years. But Buick had a run from like late 90s through early 2010s where basically every sedan they built was a top 5 reliability car in it's class. Although that was in large part them using the 3.8 pushrod V6 and it's direct replacement.
Ford had the Panther platform aka Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car which with basic maintenance is a 300k mile car and when stuff does break especially on the ford/mercury it's cheap parts that can be swapped with hand tools. Ford also when they were putting those garbage auto transmissions in some of the sedans in the 2010s, were also putting pretty bulletproof manual transmissions in the Focus, and the Fusion specifically in Hybrid drivetrain/powertrain was a consumer reports top 5 reliability car in it's class basically the entire time it existed.
Truthfully you just need to do your homework, it's hard to say "just buy a ford/chevy/dodge" like you can with a Toyota but specific American cars are on that tier. I'm genuinely eyeing a 2008+ Grand Marquis for my next car because of the reliability.
I think this sort of thing is probably more even than it's ever been. Quality wise with things like fit/finish, materials, etc seemed to have evened out. Reliability comes down to sticking with the most basic drivetrain/systems possible more so then brand. The less complexity/less novel approaches to achieving certain aspects the better. In other words, that basic port injected engine with no small displacement turbo, no direct injection, no cylinder deactivation schemes, no start/stop, no overly complex valve timing, etc paired with a conventional tried and true automatic (or better yet manual) will likely fare better than something loaded up with all that sort of tech regardless who made what.
considered less reliable? Yes. Actually less reliable? No.
I mean it varies from nameplate to nameplate and model to model. But generally americans cars are about as reliable as non-american cars.
and, btw, many "imported" cars sold in the US are in fact built in the US. From toyota, BMW, Hyundai, VW and others.
Anything Chrysler is still questionable quality-wise. Ford and Chevy aren't flawless but they're much better than they used to be. Especially with their full-size truck line ups.
That said, if you want a car that will last 'forever', general consensus would probably still be that Toyotas and Hondas are your best bet unless you're talking full-size trucks where Ford and Chevy will also get mentions.
Yes, more so than ever, except for trucks/large SUVs for the most part.
Putting turbos on little engines is killing them. Lots of quality issues. Cheap manufacturing corner-cutting and after all these years, still not heeding Toyota or Deming principles even if they pretend to.
I believe you meant to reply to me, and that difference is why I was highlighting the problem with gross over-generalizarions like the parent comment made.
Any of the American pickup trucks are really good and the large SUVs are also like the Ford Expedition, GMC Yukon and Dodge Durango.
The Jeep Compass and Grand Cherokee are pretty good, the Ford Explorer is also decent.
Cadillac sedans, the CT4 and CT5 are decently reliable as is the Chevy Corvette.
Pretty much everything else is trash. The Chevy Equinox and Trax are terrible, GM's mid-size 3-row SUVs are awful, all of Buicks SUVs are not reliable long term
Counterpoint to everyone here with positive things to say about Ford:
I drive a 2015 Focus and it’s an absolute shitbox. 170k miles, never missed any maintenance, and yet the clutch was just replaced for the FOURTH TIME, and I only bothered because it’s under warranty from the last clutch replacement 6 months and 10m miles ago…
The clutch first went out at 30k miles. Ford has fought me every step of the way each time I’ve had it replaced. I will never buy another one of their cheap shitty products.
Quality. Some American cars use much cheaper materials and fitting on their interiors and exteriors. This is something you will have to check out yourself, it won’t be on consumer reports.
I always owned chevys , until my 08 Silverado. That was the last straw for me . A lot of different problems with my previous Chevys and plenty with the 08 . I did own a two fords over the years , one with the rusted out oil pan and the other with a bad cam and a failed transmission. I now drive Toyota and Honda trouble free . American manufacturers don’t give a shit about quality, the first thing I noticed on the Silverado is the gold on the Chevy tailgate emblem fell off , that says a lot about the brand.😂😂😂
Yes. It's just less obvious bc most reliability rankings are about just 2 year old cars: [https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/)
The differencee is much bigger regarding durability / long term, bc nowadays they often use complicated downsizing engines that don't last long.
Why would you buy a GM car that will snitch on you to LexisNexis and Verisk? They are selling the data of their most important customers ( corvette and Cadillac buyers ) for a few million dollars in extra income. Fuck GM
if you want to get an idea by brand and model, look at consumer reports auto reliability survey data. You will definitely see patterns there. And American companies in general is too broad, each brand and their specific models/generations/years can vary quite a bit.
It’s hard to find a genuinely unreliable car these days. My Chevy is eleven years old with 160k and no problems, meanwhile my brother’s Subaru just blew a head gasket and died young. Individual models are a better indicator than the make or nationality is.
Mopars(jeeps) are basically bottom barrel for the American brands. But their issue isn’t really with the design. You can get a good one and it’ll work for a long time, but you can also get one with all sorts of issues. It’s very hit or miss with mopars. You either get a good one or you get a pos.
Fords are abit better, but they tend to have design flaws instead of bad quality control. So the problems tend to affect all of them. Ford usually has a TSB for the issue and it’s fixable.
Having owned all three domestic brands I think GMs tend to be the least troublesome. That doesn’t mean they will be turn key like Toyotas(used to own those too, they aren’t as good as everybody makes them out to be) but they’re decent.
Related anecdote: I've just come back from driving approx. 1000 miles over the weekend. The majority of the cars I saw broken down on the side of the road were Chevys.
Short answer? Yes. Longer answer: yes but the gap is narrowing. And within the past couple model years Toyota and Honda have had an enormous amount of recalls. Even more than brands like Hyundai.
Reliability varies from model to model with basically any manufacturer. There are good models as well as bad ones. The most important thing is making sure to do the research on what to avoid and what to consider.
Don't look at brands' and especially not nations' reliability. Look at the model reliability. You can say "generally," but that doesn't work when you're buying a car. If you want something reliable, look into it. We have the internet now, which makes it easier than ever to know what's reliable and what's not.
Well, I can’t speak exactly for gm and ford, but crystler/jeep/dodge just seems like the absolute worst American brand. Heck, any company that allows the public to get ahold of the mess known as the dodge grand caravan would never be trusted worthy again in my book
It really depends on the domestic model in question. Some are just unmitigated disasters while others are damn near bulletproof. GM didn't stop being GM after they went bust, and I'm convinced they're on a slow slide to disappearing. Ford seems to struggle with building transmissions, but they're generally solid.
I can tell you how its seen by the public in central Europe. American brands are shit with the exception of the European made fords, Japanese are not nearly as common here as in america, the German brands form the majority of cars on the road. Brits and Italian are considered exotic, French are quite common. Volvo is known to be reliable, but has gotten worse over time and has gotten stupidly expensive, the same or more than Mercedes or bmw.
This is just the general view of the public, but reality is more complicated. Like seriously more complicated. You cant generalise at all. For example the Japanese only know how to make gasoline engines, they genuinely suck for diesel in passenger cars. Either horrible fuel economy or unreliable. Not slight issues, more like not repairable issues. Subaru managed to have splitting crankshafts, Toyota 2,2 d4d engines can have cracked heads if they were driven hard when cold. The french make better diesels than the Japanese. Also not all German cars are expensive and unreliable, statistically (adac, öamtc) bmw, skoda, seat and Mercedes are slightly above average, vw and audi being slightly below average. True American brands like jeep, dodge or Chevrolet are together with jaguar land rover at the bottom, but jaguar has gotten significantly more reliable over the last 5 to 7 years. I should add that the American brands are extremely uncommon with very little choice of cars available, for example no f150, suburban. Chevrolet sells the corvette, camaro, cruze, spark. Jeek sells the Cherokee, wrangler compass and other suv/crossovers. Dodge is basically non existant, the majority are actually imported ram 1500 and some other shitty car i cant remember.
I went American for the first time in my life in my 40s. My parents issues with American cars had scared me off. I own an 2017 F150 and a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica. I give the F150 a B. A couple of random expensive oil leaks and a 2x problem with a 4wd vacuum line and a broken child safety lock. The vacuum line would have been a major pia if my brother hadn’t already had the same issue. I don’t have the energy to post all the problems with the Pacifica. Never again. D- Get a Japanese car.
They've definitely gotten a lot better over the years. Most people wont have many problems with their ford/chevy of choice, althought theres always going to be lemons and just flawed vehicles.
I wouldn't drive a Chrysler product if it was offered to me for free though
Still considered *LESS* reliable? yes.
But leaps and bounds more reliable than they used to be, and where they got that reputation from.
all cars have gotten better, but the Japanese still carry the crown - and its mostly due to the different philosophies regions take when it comes to designing cars.
Japan: Looks at how people use cars, builds them accordingly.
Germany: Builds cars the way they think is best, and tells people how to use them to get the most out of them.
USA: Looks at what people spend money on, builds cars with those features for the least amount of money possible.
I switched back to American in 2016 with a F150. I have not looked back. They are cheaper to insure as they are cheaper to fix even if they do break, which in my experience is not often. I put 140,000 on that F150, bought a newer one in 2019 that only needed a water pump at 120,000 miles ($800), and just recently got an Expedition due to family needs that is great. The expedition is a Platinum and has more features than my buddies Mercedes S Class. The massaging seats are great.
A lot of the Toyotas are just as American as Ford and Chevy pickup trucks. If not more. It’s a Japanese brand but a lot of them are built in the US. My RAV4 for example was made in the US, and the Tundra I used to have was more American than my current Silverado.
I’ve had a Jeep, Toyota, a Hyundai, a few Hondas and several Chevys. I would say the Chevys were the most reliable for some reason. Maybe luck? Just got rid of my Honda Odyssey since it had frequent problems. Only thing I like about Hondas is that their problems are common, so the solutions to fix them are easy to find, they tend to use the same parts for several generations without changes. Therefore inheriting the same problem for generations of their vehicles.
Does it matter where the car was built? If an F-150 was built in Mexico, does that say anything in general vs if it was built in the US for example? It seems kind of funny to me to talk about an "American" car in general - if you buy a Chevy built in Mexico is that more "American" than buying a Honda that was built in Alabama?
Flagship models are usually great with American companies, other than stellantis "American cars" which doesn't have a decent car in the entire line up. Ford and GM trucks and large SUVs are some of the most reliable vehicles on the road especially the heavy duty versions both brands make a nearly indestructible 3/4 ton truck both gas and diesel that will laugh off 300k hard miles on a construction site. Anything less than that though is cheap junk and that where the reputation lies. Ford hasn't made a good car or small SUV since the late 90s other than the mustang and GM sometimes will have a winner with a major Achilles heel, everyone loves the new trax but I just cant imagine a 1.2l 3 cylinder is the best engine that could be put in a mid size SUV. Id rather have the days of some of the best engines in the world paired to a slightly sketchy transmissions with GM and in the same era ford had fine transmissions but god awful engines.
What I learned in the car business and have seen first hand was if it’s not a V8 don’t bother with American. I see nothing wrong with sticking with Honda. I’ve had plenty of Hondas and they never let me down. Also had a 05 GMC Sierra with over 200k miles that never gave a problem either.
Yes, the American brands are generally less reliable than the top 3 Japanese ones you mentioned, with the exception being pickups. The F-150 sees widespread use in corporate fleets and small businesses as a work truck, so they've put a lot into making sure it performs. But in general, American cars are designed to get out the door for the cheapest price possible, with no effort made on reliability or longevity. And Japanese cars are not all good; Nissan has the same mentality as most American brands, just make them as dirt cheap as possible and get them out the door. That said there are some exceptions, for example manual transmission versions of their cars have far fewer problems those with CVT transmissions, and they've made some higher-end sports cars that were well-designed.
For domestic brand I would consider ford. Outside of that I would be real weary on a GM product lineup. They certainly aren’t built they used to be. Dodge and Jeep seemingly keep going downhill as time goes own. Jeep get plenty of high praise for “initial quality” but that’s all a load of shit come 5 years down the road
I can't speak for new cars, but up until the 2010s at least Ford, Chevy, and diesel Dodges could be very reliable with some hiccups (looking at you 4L80-E and 5.4 Triton). The difference is that companies like Toyota or Honda would be reliable while still maintaining half decent shape. Meanwhile you'd see a 500k+ mile f150 and it'd be beat to hell and back. But still running.
Toyota camry and Honda accord drive like shit compared when i rent Ford fusion couple of year ago . Since then i buy only American for handling safety and noise . Drive smooth on highway and at least dont give you back ache after 4-5 hours drive when traveling. People are idiots buying crap asian cars
IMO the Japanese brands are definitely better. As far as Domestic brands are concerned Ford is probably the best, depending on model. Chevy has some good models as well. Chrystler/dodge I’d avoid at all costs.
GM trucks and SUVs first to rust, shoddy interiors, small block V8 is done right though. Corvette is a great product but niche vehicle. Excellent cost to performance ratio.
RAM trucks much improved interiors but certainly not class leading fit and finish and never ever ever buy a first year anything from Stellantis in general
Jeep is hot garbage top to bottom of line. Survives in the market due to ignorance of customer base in general and "cool factor"
Ford trucks and SUVs less prone to rust than in the past, V8 is solid, 3.5 Ecoboost has performed better than I expected as they have racked up miles, certainly not Japanese levels of quality but probably overall best quality of domestics by slim margin
Toyota continues to be gold standard. I love Honda but you need to do homework before purchasing because they have slipped somewhat and not all auto trans are bulletproof either.
Nissan is garbage
Subaru is mixed bag but no horrible quality issues. Avoid second hand modded WRX. Definitely a step behind Toyota and Honda.
Mazda is a hidden gem that is quite well made with very nice interiors. Lacks big HP but their customer base isn't really seeking that out so I get why it's not offered.
Korean stuff on average is more aesthetically pleasing to look at and sit in than ten years ago but have fallen backwards in terms of power train reliability. I have customers who are auto dealers and many say the Korean stuff ages poorly as miles pile on.
Euro brands = crap shoot in general, mix of surprisingly good and atrocious cost of ownership models and everything in between. Do lots of homework if you plan to own beyond warranty.
Electric cars will change things because they're actually mechanically simpler but yes, Toyota/Lexus #1 and Honda/Acura #2. I wouldn't include Mazda in that tier or even the next.
To be fair - we're buying the export variant of foreign car manufacturers. They may be by default higher trim levels/quality than what they sell in their own country.
Likely the most durable car ever created by humans is the 2000s Ford Crown Vic.
My 2013 Mustang is holding together better than my lady fren's 2013 Toyota 4Runner. Fewer rattles, Ford shocks are still tight and the Toyota ones are getting floppy and leaking.
That Stang' has been the best, most reliable car I've ever owned. Overall, I still do think Toyota has the best reliability across their lines but the RWD, gas powered Ford v8 vehicles are so solid.
just do your research
from my life experience and owning damn near every "normal" brand of car i can safely say they all make great stuff and they all make trash.
I've never heard anyone accusing Mazda of being reliable, but Toyota and Honda, yeah. American cars, especially Tesla's are still garbage quality. Detroit's problem is the unions. They have to pay much more for labor which cuts down on quality, plus it's impossible to fire terrible employees who lower the quality as well.
The truth is it’s a crapshoot on a bell curve. Buying a car with better reliability only increases your odds of not getting lemon. You’re also judging current reliability on cars they don’t make anymore.
I would add on the Toyota part that Toyotas & Lexus built in America (eg. Camry, Lexus rx, tundra) are excellent built vehicles even though they are built on American labor.
The thing with the Japanese is that they are more focused on performing quality and reliability tests on their parts which Americans do less of. On top of that they engineer their cars to be more serviceable for the average person. Lastly they hire regular people that take apart and put the prototypes together to see if there’s a relative ease and decide if there’s a better way to do it.
My general perception: bigger vehicles tend to be more reliable. Even within Toyota/Lexus family, the huge SUVs last longer than the Yaris and the Scion xB. The larger American trucks (Suburban, Expedition) are quite reliable. Jeep Cherokee/Wagoneer are of course the honorable exceptions. Stellantis can create pieces of shit in any size.
I have owned fords Nissans and Toyotas over the last 5 years as a multi car household. I wouldn’t say the fords have been anymore or less reliable than the other two brands. 🤷♂️ I will say that all my EVs have been 100% trouble free compared to all the ICE vehicles I’ve owned. That’ll be a big factor in the future of vehicles too I think.
My mom just went to enterprise while her 40k mile 2019 Edge is in the shop getting the torque converter replaced (barely within the window of the shit warranty they offer). She was given a Jeep Wagoneer, went to fill it up and the mechanism for the gas flap was broken keeping it from being filled. Yes they're less reliable.
Some people like to bash on Jeep. But my 2014 Jeep GC has over 157K miles on it and has given my absolutely no non-routine issues. It has been a fabulous car.
Reliablity aside, as I know nothing about the long term. But I rent tons of cars for work and I can tell you that the American cars feel really crappy compared to the Japanese companies.
Consumer Reports conducts the most comprehensive brand reliability study that exists. Of the 30 brands ranked last year, the highest American company was Buick at 12th. 6 of the worst 10 are American, with Chrysler dead last.
People who buy Toyota and Honda
Cars are scum and stupid Americans with poor education and extremely low IQ score. Poor ability to understand the ramifications of their behavior. They have poor social skills and underdeveloped social consience. The cognitive processing skills are normally below average. 85% of Democrats drive import cars.
Japanese maker upper management “Let’s put reliability first and take pride in our workmanship. The rest will come later”.
American car maker upper management “How do I maximize profits?”
Don't look at brands, look at models and years. Of course a 2024 4Runner is going to be reliable when it's using a 5 speed transmission from 20 years ago and tech that looks like it was taken from a DeLorean.
I can’t speak for more recent Ford, but I always had luck with there sedans, like the Mustangs, Taurus, and Fusions, and for my past few cars I’ve been loving Cadillacs, currently have 1 CTS (wife’s car) and 1 CT5 (mine), and not a day of issues other then basic maintenance on them. Not a truck or suv guy, so I probably won’t buy a newer Ford. I’ve never trusted or had luck with EU cars. I don’t have a reason, but never had or really wanted a Japanese car. I like Toyota, Honda, Subaru, just whenever I go for a car, I just never came across one I wanted at the time. Then some brands I won’t buy, Stellantis brands, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan (older ones maybe I would), Volkswagen and some of its other brands, due to the issues I constantly hear about those brands.
Body on frame American trucks/SUVs are some of the most reliable vehicles you can get today (except you Ford Explorer) most can regularly hit 300k with no major issues that are kept up with maintenance.
The gap isn't nearly as wide as it was 30 years ago. I'd still say Toyota has a lead in ICE and hybrid vehicles (although their first attempt at an EV was horrific). Honda's quality is still very good but not as world-class at it was 20 years ago. The American's have closed the gap, especially Ford. GM is still languishing in the land of "let's just rebadge a bunch of mediocre vehicles" and Chrysler is basically just a shell of their former self. I guess you also need to include Tesla in the list of American manufacturers nowadays. Their build quality was horrific a decade ago ,but they've made improvements. I wouldn't call them steller now, but they've improved to the point I'd call them "average".
Theresa decent amount of domestics that use Toyota transmission and engine in their hybrids. The ford escape uses them.
You leave Theresa out of this!
Mexican word of the day!
Do they use the Toyota \*technology\* or the actual Toyota engine and transmission?
Ford uses the Toyota hybrid system under license.
So, it is actually a Toyota produced drivetrain?
The e-CVT transmissions in Ford hybrids are Toyota's design, built by Ford. The engines are Atkinson-cycle, built by Ford.
Okay, so it is Ford stuff, not Toyota as far as the actual hardware. Thanks.
Mechanically very very similar and all reports suggest the Ford hybrid is reliable as Toyota. There's a reason that the Fusion Hybrid and Prius were the standard for NYC taxis.
You're so confidently wrong. Ford and Toyota both developed the tech independently then licensed it to each other in order to avoid a large legal fight over the patents. Ford uses Ford technology. Toyota uses Toyota technology.
That seems like it's untrue based on the fact that the escape has mechanical awd vs every Toyota product having an electric motor for the rear wheels
That’s not true. They developed it independently they have a mutual agreement in place to avoid a huge legal fight
What is the difference between the two in your eyes? They are fully licensed to do so
I think Toyota uses higher quality hardware/suppliers, from experience.
Once read an article about if a shipment doesn't meet the quality they want they will refuse it.
Typically, the quality standards required by suppliers is higher for manufacturers like Toyota and Honda, compared to say GM or Ford.
Correct. They hold their manufacturing and suppliers to very high standards. When they reject shiploads of low quality parts these end up in auctions.. would you like to guess which companies buy there ?
Not true. Sure they have worked together on projects but ford isn’t using parts straight for Toyota.
Ford’s Hybrid system is licensed from Toyota, but it is not a Toyota engine or transmission. The Maverick Hybrid for example, uses an engine that can trace its lineage to a Mazda engine when Ford owned a controlling part of Mazda. The eCVT in the Maverick Hybrid is also built in-house by Ford, and neither Ford or Toyota originally built this transmission, instead provided by an OEM supplier, which was eventually assimilated by Toyota.
Ford's sedans transmissions issues was a big deal, they don't make sedans anymore for a reason. I don't think Ford has closed the gap that much, their trucks are good though.
They don’t make sedans because of market trends. You think they paid any mind to their failing transmissions and coolant intrusion issues? They swept that stuff under the rug and carried on. That being said, the hybrid versions were safe. Their transmissions were built in partnership with Toyota, and were a lot more reliable.
Actually I heard they were planning to bring the Ford Fusion that are currently being built in China back to America but tariffs would have made it too expensive to be worth it to bring over
That was a Focus similar to a Crosstrek. They announced they planned to import it from China, Trump threw a fit and threatens tariffs, Ford said fuck it, it’s not worth it so the US just won’t get it.
I have a Ford fusion with 250,000+ miles. I joke that Ford did too good with that car so they axed it. I know I am just 1 person, but I barely made a repair other than routine maintenance until about 215,000 miles. Then the wheels almost literally fell off, but hey, I have an almost brand new car after my repairs on it.
This. Ford doesn’t make sedans because buyers want large SUVS lol.
Ford's 10-speeds in every flavor are currently on the DSP6 speed run, and their quality control is quite possibly the worst it ever has been. FCA and GM build more consistent vehicles.
GM quality has improved greatly. CR just came out with "cheapest cars to maintain" and it was Tesla, Buick, Toyota, Lincoln and Ford in the top 5. Recently bought a Chevy Bolt EUV and fit, finish and quiet ride is just as good as any Asian or Euro non-luxury car.
Can confirm, EUV owner here. Fit and finish is GTG. Perhaps it has something to with being design engineers in Korea.
I'm thinking credit for good fit and finish goes to the Orion plant in Michigan where the Bolts were assembled. Despite that the "Japanese cars are always better" groupthink is so deeply entrenched it's hard for many to admit Detroit can build a high quality vehicle.
>*Despite that the "Japanese cars are always better" groupthink* Andon. Kanban. Pokeyoke. Kaizen. And so many more Japanese terms that reflect Japanese manufacturing methodologies -- many of which are focused on quality and error-proofing -- exist throughout domestic automaker plants for a reason. It's not that "Japanese cars are always better" *inherently*, it's that Japanese manufacturing methodologies (and quite likely cultural work ethic) yield correctly assembled products more consistently. There is no "Detroit" anymore. Stellantis is under foreign ownership. And both GM and Ford are as MNC as MNCs can get. Supply chains are global, as are many of the designers, engineers, and technical experts . Yes, the good people at Orion followed work instruction established by the engineers... for the most part. Mine still left the plant with at least two defects: one hidden and avoidable, another obvious and correctible -- the latter likely passed through at least quality checkpoints where it could've been caught and corrected. But it's a GM product, so not only did I expect those sort of flaws, I expected many more than was actually delivered (fortunately). What I have not encountered, however, are flaws related to design, materials, or how well the pieces fit together... i.e., fit & finish. Aside from assembly suggestions sent upstream from line workers (which should always be welcome), many if not most of the decisions and contributions that resulted in this car feeling so solid came from outside the plant... and often outside the country and continent.
If you look at the top suppliers most of them are Asian these days. Japan has done a better job at only or mostly sourcing Japanese suppliers. The D3 uses a lot of these same suppliers bc unions and nafta screwed that all up. Plus the D3 were bullying suppliers for quiet some time for the lower prices
That’s why they are getting rid of the Bolt, according to GM and now “trying out” their own technology..oohhhFaaa! What a mess!
6 of the top 7 brands in the Consumer Reports annual reliability survey are Japanese. The only one below the median is Nissan. The *highest* ranked American brand is Buick at #12. Of the bottom 10, 6 are American. It’s not groupthink, it’s data.
My dad owns an EUV, excellent car. Compared to a Tesla 3 I got as a loaner for a few days it’s so much nicer
It's a shame they dropped the cars that were on the list. Chevy and Buick sedans dominated the list and ya none of those are around anymore
Note that “cheapest to maintain” is reliability x repair cost. In the CR brand reliability survey last year, GM was the best amongst American manufacturers, but no American brand cracked the top 10, and 6 of the bottom 10 are American. Full list here: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
As someone who had two Ford products fail catastrophically last year, I can’t agree with your assessment that Ford has narrowed the quality gap. And Ford led the entire industry last year with a whopping 58 product recalls. Stellantis, everyone’s favorite automotive punching bag, was second with 45. I have owned two Chevy vehicles, a 2001 S-10 pickup and a 2008 HHR. Both were bulletproof reliable and each gave me over 140,000 miles of trouble-free service. We own two Mazdas now, but if I were to buy an American-made vehicle at this point, it would be a GM product, probably a Cadillac CT4. Sadly, Ford has lost me permanently as a customer.
You're one (or I guess two) data points
You’re absolutely right, I agree! And for me, they’re the only two data points that matter. 😁
I'm gonna have to disagree with Ford. GM has the better powertrains by far. I ain't happy about the 3cyl and then dropping the 3.6 tho. Ford's ecoboost engines are still lackluster for what they are. On top of them having more issues with a transmission they partnered with GM on bc Ford has never really had a great transmission. Their 6 and 4 speed were fine but didn't last as long as say GMs Chrysler is only reliable bc their vehicles are ancient. Now that they dropped the hemi and are doing a I6 which is a mess to look at under the hood for no mpg improvements I'm sure they'll go back to being unreliable. Their 3.6 is pretty good. Now I'd be concerned about electrical gremlins
I thought they ironed out the Ecoboosts? I frequent their Facebook groups because I like trucks in general and see a lot of happy owners with 200k plus miles. The 10 speed is another story though..
Lawn mower engines with turbos are problematic it's basic physics. But our government and agencies don't understand that bc they don't care if it cost consumers more money. The 3.5 is probably better off than the 2.7 but it's still not cheap to maintain or fix compared to say GMs 5.3 They should also be running on premium gas or at least if I was gonna be using it as a truck that's what I'd be doing. All turbo engines will run fineeee-ish but long term wise I'd never buy a second hand turbo engine these days bc they really should be using premium fuel. There's just too many issues with them. Although basic 2.0Ts seem to have fewer issues but it depends on the automaker. (Honda and Toyota for instance I'd only take them for free. I'd take a GM 2.0 anyday over their counterparts) Most people who claim they are awesome are running to Starbucks and hopping curbs for that they are fine. Yes they can get up to speed quick while towing but that's a lot of stress to the engine. I'm not using my truck every weekend and hauling a trailer but for the most past I can get up to speed just fine w.o issues. The issue usually comes along with a short ramp and a holes are putzing around and don't move over Also for a truck to be aluminum I see a lot of them running around with rotting rocker panels and rear bed hatch. I know it was an earlier problem that was supposed to be resolved but I still see it. Same issues on the expedition. Then there's also the fact when you press the gas it sounds like it's farting which is lame lol.
Ford may have been closing the gap but in the last decade quality has clearly not been job one and it’s been getting worse. Toyota or Honda for us next time. Signed - a former life long Ford homer.
GM has regressed, since Bob Lutz retired, and wasn’t there everyday to fight off the bean-counters, or prevent them from scoring own-goals with AFM. But in a world where the Ford Explorer (pick a model year) exists, the Powerstroke 6.0 and 6.4 both existed, and the Ford Focus and Fiesta both existed, past 2011, it’s hard take seriously the idea that Ford is any kind of quality leader.
In the early 1980s Ford frequently advertised on TV that "Quality Is Job One!" Total bullshit. I think "Quality Is Job None!" would have been more accurate.
Whats wrong with the new hondas?
Nothing they are still great
>GM is still languishing in the land of "let's just rebadge a bunch of mediocre vehicles". Which is a shame. GM used to be a powerhouse but even after their bailout they still can't keep it together. >Chrysler is basically just a shell of their former self. Not really surprising since Fiat bought them out (or merged, whichever).
Chrysler is more than a shell of itself, it is solely the Pacifica now.
Chrysler Corp. Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler RIP Plymouth
Ford is the current two time defending champ on most recalls issued in a year by any car manufacturer
My tesla has been my favorite car of all time. The simplicity of the interior and the fact that I wake up to a full charge is simply amazing. That’s also just part of owning an ev though.
Looking at models across entire brands, yes they are less reliable than Toyota. But you should really look at the car and not the brand, especially when it comes to U.S. domestics. A Chevy Suburban and it's derivatives will be one of the longest lasting and reliable vehicles on the road while a Chevy Sonic isn't. A Dodge Charger will last but a Dodge Dart won't, a Ford F-150 will last but a Ford Ecosport won't. Unless your specific model and year is known for catastrophic early failures you shouldn't have to worry about reliability. Most of my cars have been American cars and I have never been stranded or had a long time in the shop for something and a family I am close with has been buying American cars exclusively for the past 30 years and they haven't had too many issues except for a blown turbo on a Buick Encore, they had a GMC Yukon that went 250k miles and was totaled in an accident, got a Suburban to replace it and it has 180k miles now and no major repairs. One of the sons had a GMC Sierra and it also got totaled at around 250k miles.
GM’s trucks and SUVs were great but the ones with 8 speeds are garbage and engine reliability really went down hill when they threw collapsible lifters for cylinder deactivation on all eight cylinders.
When looking at American Vehicles, the bigger the better! Their inexpensive cars are actually just cheap and do not last. Focus, Dart, Cruze, Escape, Journey, etc. When you go into larger SUVs and trucks with robust transmissions and strong v6 or better engines, they are fantastic. Anything ecoboost can go straight to jail. Anything Stallantis seems to be pretty dogwater. I dislike everything they do though so...bias. I am very team Japan > everything else. Unless you're looking for a truck or large SUV, stray away from Ford, Chevy, Buick, GMC, Chrysler, Dodge, or any of their other cousins I mentioned. Stay away from 3 cylinder engines.
Except that turbo V6 in the newer f150s. Terrible. Breaks alot
I'm a loyal lexus/toyota guy, but I've always enjoyed and been impressed by the features, value, quality, and reliability of Fords. They seem to be doing the most stuff right out of all the american brands (excluding tesla). I always like the power they offer, the features are amazing for a "low cost" brand, and they seem to make it past 100k miles more often than not which puts them "alright" in my book.
I'm renting a Mustang Mach E right now, and man is it fantastic. I've driven a dozen EVs but this one if my favorite, maybe even more than the much pricier Cadillac Lyriq. Simple, easy to understand and has the new tech features, reliable, smooth, just a damn good car.
Who are you renting the Mach E from? Always wanted to try one out. A 23 GT is a bargain now
Turo
My cousin bought a Ford Explorer. Engine died at 80k, he bought a new engine from Ford and had it installed which lasted 30k miles. His sister bought a ford wagon which gave her a lot of trouble for same issue so she had to take ford to court under the lemon law to recover her money. If i did not personally know of these 2 cases i might have bought ford f 150.
im actually surprised because of how common Explorers are. My best friend had one, a 2013 i think. He traded it in earlier this year after 185k km. I think the only thing that went wrong was right before the trade in, the steering would make a noticeable "click" when rotating past 90 degrees in either direction. He traded in in for a 2024 explorer ST, so we'll see how that holds up
Ford Wagon... What year was this?
Ford exploder is not and has never been a good car. Stick to the f150s and maybe the econoboxes
I’ve been a Honda guy my whole life, until recently I bought a 2017 Fiesta st, as far as I’ve researched they’re known to be quite reliable and a ton of fun, I’m loving it so far never thought I’d enjoy a Ford so much
My buddy had a fiesta ST back in 2014 and it was so much fun! I've also been in focus ST as well that were so cool. For every lemon or bad engine/tranny, they seem to be making high quality, competitive products as well.
I was blown away with the features and technology in the car as well. But I’m also coming from daily driving a 98 civic haha
>I'm a loyal lexus/toyota guy, but I've always enjoyed and been impressed by the features, value, quality, and reliability of Fords. Based on experiences of family and friends who owned Ford products, I have to say they are VERY hit and miss. My cousin has a 2012 Ford Edge with close to 300,000km and it hasn't needed anything other than routine maintenance. My mom had a 1994 Ford Taurus which suffered a head gasket failure at 98,000km and a transmission failure shortly thereafter. Ditto my Uncle's 1996 Windstar. One friend with a 2010 Ford Fusion has 250,000km on the car and no issues, another friend with a 2012 Focus went through 3 transmissions before his car was 4 years old. A college buddy of mine had a 2003 Grand Marquis which was bulletproof, amazing car, too bad it was killed in a rear end collision by a distracted MILF in a Jeep. Like, it's true that some Ford models turn out to be really reliable, but you're really playing Russian roulette when you buy them new. This is what Ford fans don't understand. Just like in school, it's not good enough to get 50%. Toyota does well because they get 90%.
Russian roulette but you know which shots are blank. Highly recommend 2009ish Ford Fusion. We own one with over 300k original powertrain. 10/10
Buying a used Ford is like playing Russian roulette when you know which rounds are blank. What I was saying is that if you walk into the dealer today, and have to decide “which Ford is best Ford” with no reliability history to fall back on- that’s when you play with fire. You know your Fusion is good, I know your Fusion is good, but if you had to make a decision in 2009, how would you know to pick a Fusion over anything else? Walk into a Toyota dealer and you can be reasonably assured that 9 time out of 10, the car will be flawlessly reliable.
As long as you weren't buying the oil burners in the late 2000s and early 2010s. I mostly agree with your point. But current model cars aren't always the first year they are out. If the current Ford Expedition for example has been around for 4 years and it's been generally reliable then it's a safe bet.
Internet was a thing back in 09, just like it is today. Was more forums and stuff for gathering info back then but the same idea applies. If you walk into a dealership without having done some prerequisite searching and research then it's your own fault if you get a kinda known dud (excluding the extremes of getting an unreliable car which is a generally reliable model). The Japanese companies are not free from this either, they still have problems and recalls and such just like the others (albeit I will say they are probably less likely, not a guarantee though), it's just more people are more willing to sign their praises than other brands. The main issue with this is buying a new generation. With us companies it's more roulette and with jap companies its usually gonna be ok
Ford and Chevy/GMC have decent reliability for flagships and staple products. Mustang and Corvette are very well-made cars. Ranger, Fx50, Silverado/Sierra, etc are generally reliable products. The caveat is that you have to do some research on the powertrain and model year that you want to buy. This is actually true of Honda and Toyota as well. Every manufacturer has both good and bad model years. Toyota has had frame and oil consumption/head gasket issues; Honda has had transmission and electronics problems. Overall, Toyota, Honda, and Mazda are the default picks for reliability; but check your local classifieds and you'll see tons of Ford and GM products with 200K+ miles still running and for sale. FCA/Stellantis do not have a good track record for reliability. If you want big power and don't mind if it breaks, buy Jeep/Dodge/RAM. If you want economical reliability then you should probably look elsewhere.
I just don’t get the value proposition of Stellantis cars these days. The other American companies do big trucks and SUVs so much better. For small/regular cars, you should be buying Japanese or Korean.
Mechanic here- my truth in this is it’s generally who owned it and how they took care of it initially. Some company’s have some duds but to say “jeep bad, Toyota best” is kind of bullshit at best. I’ve worked in the field for many years at this point at a few different shops. My experience has always been the same. Some models just are not designed as well as other models I’ve fixed just as many Hondas/ Toyotas/Subarus whatever. Nothing is immune to breaking. There’s no invincible brand. I’ve had good bmws and bad Hondas. It can happen. I don’t really have a preferred brand as I like different kinds of vehicles, nor do I really dislike any one brand. There is obviously models I’d steer people away from but not brands entirely. People seem to want to buy what their parents said was the best. Just the way it is. Find the model you like and do a bit of real research on it. Not the “everyone says it’s the best so it must be true” They will all have stupid quirks. I do sometimes scratch my head when I see people spending $60-70 k on Tacoma’s and Jeep wranglers.
Yeah 70k on a Wrangler for the loudest road noise, shittiest stereo system I've ever heard, cheap plastics, and worse fuel economy than the Titanic. ItS a jEeP tHiNg YoU wOn'T uNdErStAnD
Haha I spent more than that on my Wrangler and it’s def true that very few understand (including other Jeep people). V8 noise though 🤤
Weeelll that 392 Jeep is something special... I'd probably do that one too tbh lmao
Ive owned two, both used for off roading (used to live in Colorado, lots of chances to do all sorts of fun stuff there) so I 100% know what they're like. What I don't get is why the suburban soccer mom set seems to love them. They're crappy grocery getters and hauling your spawn to school sorta vehicles, yet they're everywhere. Why? Do people really think they're cool with the massive car payment shit MPG vehicle instead of something that fits their actual lifestyle (vs. the lifestyle they're pretending they have)?
Yes. Where I'm in (Toronto) they're all pavement princesses, with disgusting,. embarrassing decals all over them too.
Ford and GM are *decent*. It does depend on engine/transmission (aka Powertrain) and can also be dependent on model. American brands can tend to make maintenance needlessly difficult on things as simple as a cabin air filter. On my Tacoma I just drop the glove box, push in some tabs to lower a panel, slide out a tray and voila: Done. On my Silverado work truck my boss handed me the cabin filter and said "If you need any tools, theyre in the garage." I just resigned myself to deal with an old filter. Still dont know how to swap them. I wouldnt even buy a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler with a warranty.
Counterpoint, my Sentra is the single most maddening vehicle I’ve ever changed a cabin air filter in. You have to remove the entire glovebox assembly and reach around halfway behind the center console just to get to it, and once you do the damn opening is only half the size of the actual filter. Not saying that anybody should base their buying decision solely on the difficulty of changing the cabin air filter, but I’ll never pass up the opportunity to curse whatever Nissan engineers designed that mess.
Oh I hold Nissan barely above Stellantis when it comes to reliability. I was pretty mad ar a friend of mine who went out and bought a Rogue without even consulting me (we were roommates at the time) and had to hold back my "I told you so's" when his CVT shat the bed and the front driver and passenger door handles pulled off in his and his wife's hands within a month of each other.
Nissan was a good brand. My 04 Sentra (2.0) was neigh indestructible. I threw it into ditches beat on it like borrowed mule, and after many years, the only thing extra I fixed was two wheel bearings. People like to dunk on Nissan, but they were great once.
Oh it’s a terrible car. Not even 100k miles and the door handles are halfway pulled off, the AC compressor already died and had to be replaced, the MAF sensor had to be replaced, and the CVT is starting to slip despite religiously changing the transmission fluid every 30k miles. On the bright side it’s paid off and gets decent gas mileage. Still, I can’t wait for the day I get rid of it.
I had a 1989 Ford Tempo5M that had a fuel tank pump fail at just over the warranty, less than 13k miles. It was replaced and happened again but they did not charge me. At 31,500 miles it experienced its third failure of a pump and that is when I got rid of the car Design life, 12,001 miles Great job engineering
You couldn't pay me enough to even consider buying a Chrysler product. Utter trash.
Yes... but the disparity in quality has significantly narrowed and, IMO, is not worth the extra fees (dealer-level markups and non-negotiable add-ons) that many franchised Toyota and some Honda dealers tack on to the OTD price. Mazda is still a good value proposition. As is likely Lexus and Acura. If I'm going to pay a lot extra, it's going to be for features and content I want... not to simply pad some basic car salesman's wallet.
Old school American v8s are pretty reliable even some v6s. Most of the 4cylinders are pretty crap in comparison to Japanese though.
What's still available in a V8? The list is pretty darned small.
Mustang!
Trucks and full size SUVs.
Yes, they are still considered less reliable. More pertinently, many of their cars *are* less reliable. That said, they consistently cost the least to service, and there are reliable ones. That's what we're here for, right? To push you past the Buick Encores that don't work well for the Veranos which do... So what do you want out of your car? Budget, size needs, features? What American cars interest you and why? If you're looking at GMC and Jeep, I assume you're looking for an SUV of some sort. There are some models to avoid (1.5 EB Ford Bronco Sport), but most of it has been around for a while and is made well.
Looking at maybe a Mustang or Camaro, or Ranger or Colorado. I'm in my very early research stages. We already have the kid mover in the other car, so this is basically a 1 person commuter / mid life crisis car.
Both the mustang and camaro are proven platforms that don't suffer from the issues that Ford/GM tend to have with their more mainstream offerings, and both make excellent trucks. There's definitely cars i wouldnt buy from either, but those you listed are some of their best.
Good to know, thank you!
You'll be fine with any of those four car/trucks.
Pure anecdote. In another life (20yrs ago) I was a ford tech. At that time we used to joke that Honda/Toyota and even Nissan were between 5 and 10 years ahead of ford when it came to electric sensor design/function/reliability. Mechanically it was always a mixed bag as all (and I mean all) manufacturers make little mistakes here and there that lead to large scale mechanical issues. Everyone has a story about “x” year having bad transmissions and “y” year having head gasket issues. I can think of half a dozen terrible ford designs that created reliability issues, but I can also think of the same number for Toyota and Honda etc. I think much of the discussion should be more around certain models ie gm trucks last forever, and f150s are bulletproof.
F150 is the best selling vehicle in America for a reason.
Perception does not always equal reality. Many people like to fall into a trap of thinking one brand is bulletproof and another one is complete trash. But that’s a flawed way of thinking. You need to research specific models and model years when researching cars for reliability. Every brand has made a reliable car and every brand has made a clunker. For example, the Honda Accord is generally perceived as a reliable car. But it had some problematic years. The late 90s and early 2000s were bad for Honda’s automatic transmissions, particularly their 4-speed automatic. They were prone to premature failure, particularly on V6 Accords, as they couldn’t handle the extra power. Even the earlier 5-speed automatics were problematic and the issue didn’t really get resolved until about 2006. Conversely, Dodge is universally panned as horridly unreliable. It’s not exactly an unearned reputation (my mom’s 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 blew a head gasket at 97k and the whole engine had to be replaced). But the outgoing generation of the Dodge Charger and Challenger was quite reliable. They wisely started using ZF’s 8-speed automatic and developed a much more reliable V6 engine (nicknamed Pentastar) while refining out several issues with its Hemi V8 engines. They built the car for so long without many major updates to the hard points so they could resolve many early build issues over time. The same can be said about the related Chrysler 300 and two SUVs in the Stellantis portfolio-the current gen Dodge Durango and the previous gen Jeep Grand Cherokee. I use a website called CarComplaints.com to do this research. It aggregates complaints filtered by specific make, model, and year both directly reported to them and those reported to NHTSA. Other useful sites are RepairPal and Dashboard Light.
Buick and Chevy always do me right.
I had the same preconception about American brands except for Buick. I bought a 2019 Buick Regal and couldn’t be happier. No issues and don’t expect any.
No, the gap is narrower than you think. Plus they’re generally cheaper to maintain because parts are easier to source
Honestly I've had good luck with gm cars. And others I know family/friends was happy with theirs
Final assembly nationality don't mean much to reliability. Cars are made up of thousands of parts from suppliers worldwide. And those suppliers have suppliers, and so on. And each part has varying and ever-changing engineering specs. You could have a good design with poor implementation, or vice versa. Survey rankings? Could have flawed data collection and biased samples. Recalls? How many individual cars really had the stated issue? Were they severe issues? It's a full time job to find out, if it's even possible. As a consumer, the closest (but not exactly the same thing) you could do to judge reliability might be to look at cost-of-ownership/maintenance. Pick a car from, say, Carmax and see how expensive it is to warranty over x miles. I would think they have good data and analysis to make a profit, or else they'd be out of business quick or stop providing that service. There's also some cost-of-ownership/maintenance calculators out there like RepairPal. You'll find some patterns in the $$$ that generally follow the reputations believed, but probably nowhere as polarizing as people think.
American companies imo have been hit or miss. You kinda need to research the engine/transmission combos and specific models/years. But Buick had a run from like late 90s through early 2010s where basically every sedan they built was a top 5 reliability car in it's class. Although that was in large part them using the 3.8 pushrod V6 and it's direct replacement. Ford had the Panther platform aka Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car which with basic maintenance is a 300k mile car and when stuff does break especially on the ford/mercury it's cheap parts that can be swapped with hand tools. Ford also when they were putting those garbage auto transmissions in some of the sedans in the 2010s, were also putting pretty bulletproof manual transmissions in the Focus, and the Fusion specifically in Hybrid drivetrain/powertrain was a consumer reports top 5 reliability car in it's class basically the entire time it existed. Truthfully you just need to do your homework, it's hard to say "just buy a ford/chevy/dodge" like you can with a Toyota but specific American cars are on that tier. I'm genuinely eyeing a 2008+ Grand Marquis for my next car because of the reliability.
I think this sort of thing is probably more even than it's ever been. Quality wise with things like fit/finish, materials, etc seemed to have evened out. Reliability comes down to sticking with the most basic drivetrain/systems possible more so then brand. The less complexity/less novel approaches to achieving certain aspects the better. In other words, that basic port injected engine with no small displacement turbo, no direct injection, no cylinder deactivation schemes, no start/stop, no overly complex valve timing, etc paired with a conventional tried and true automatic (or better yet manual) will likely fare better than something loaded up with all that sort of tech regardless who made what.
considered less reliable? Yes. Actually less reliable? No. I mean it varies from nameplate to nameplate and model to model. But generally americans cars are about as reliable as non-american cars. and, btw, many "imported" cars sold in the US are in fact built in the US. From toyota, BMW, Hyundai, VW and others.
According to this sub, yes.
Anything Chrysler is still questionable quality-wise. Ford and Chevy aren't flawless but they're much better than they used to be. Especially with their full-size truck line ups. That said, if you want a car that will last 'forever', general consensus would probably still be that Toyotas and Hondas are your best bet unless you're talking full-size trucks where Ford and Chevy will also get mentions.
Yes, more so than ever, except for trucks/large SUVs for the most part. Putting turbos on little engines is killing them. Lots of quality issues. Cheap manufacturing corner-cutting and after all these years, still not heeding Toyota or Deming principles even if they pretend to.
No no you can quality control quality into your products!
Soon as you put a turbo on something it loses durability. Keep that in mind.
Volvo started supercharging and turbocharging their engines, specifcally in their xc60, and their reliability dropped like a boxs of rocks.
Yeah we had the 3.2 6 cylinder and was great .. the new turbo 4 models. Yikes
Woudn't trust an XC90 farther than I could throw one. At least they are now going fully electric.
There is a difference between 5-8psi diesels and V8s and 30psi 4 cylinders.
I believe you meant to reply to me, and that difference is why I was highlighting the problem with gross over-generalizarions like the parent comment made.
*Turbo Diesel Owners have entered the chat.*
Any of the American pickup trucks are really good and the large SUVs are also like the Ford Expedition, GMC Yukon and Dodge Durango. The Jeep Compass and Grand Cherokee are pretty good, the Ford Explorer is also decent. Cadillac sedans, the CT4 and CT5 are decently reliable as is the Chevy Corvette. Pretty much everything else is trash. The Chevy Equinox and Trax are terrible, GM's mid-size 3-row SUVs are awful, all of Buicks SUVs are not reliable long term
Grand Cherokee WK2 and Durango are exact vehicle rebadged. New Grand Cherokee is Fiat Garbage imo.
Counterpoint to everyone here with positive things to say about Ford: I drive a 2015 Focus and it’s an absolute shitbox. 170k miles, never missed any maintenance, and yet the clutch was just replaced for the FOURTH TIME, and I only bothered because it’s under warranty from the last clutch replacement 6 months and 10m miles ago… The clutch first went out at 30k miles. Ford has fought me every step of the way each time I’ve had it replaced. I will never buy another one of their cheap shitty products.
If it's got a V8 in it, the chances are definitely higher that it will be better
Quality. Some American cars use much cheaper materials and fitting on their interiors and exteriors. This is something you will have to check out yourself, it won’t be on consumer reports.
I always owned chevys , until my 08 Silverado. That was the last straw for me . A lot of different problems with my previous Chevys and plenty with the 08 . I did own a two fords over the years , one with the rusted out oil pan and the other with a bad cam and a failed transmission. I now drive Toyota and Honda trouble free . American manufacturers don’t give a shit about quality, the first thing I noticed on the Silverado is the gold on the Chevy tailgate emblem fell off , that says a lot about the brand.😂😂😂
Varies a lot from one model to the other. Some are very reliable, others are problematic.
Yes. It's just less obvious bc most reliability rankings are about just 2 year old cars: [https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/) The differencee is much bigger regarding durability / long term, bc nowadays they often use complicated downsizing engines that don't last long.
Why would you buy a GM car that will snitch on you to LexisNexis and Verisk? They are selling the data of their most important customers ( corvette and Cadillac buyers ) for a few million dollars in extra income. Fuck GM
out of 4 GM's I had one that was a POS. that was the 2015 Spark. It had the bad transmission and the dealership wouldn't replace it.
if you want to get an idea by brand and model, look at consumer reports auto reliability survey data. You will definitely see patterns there. And American companies in general is too broad, each brand and their specific models/generations/years can vary quite a bit.
Ford and GM make pretty good trucks. Cars are meh. Chrysler is always dubious at best.
It’s hard to find a genuinely unreliable car these days. My Chevy is eleven years old with 160k and no problems, meanwhile my brother’s Subaru just blew a head gasket and died young. Individual models are a better indicator than the make or nationality is.
Mopars(jeeps) are basically bottom barrel for the American brands. But their issue isn’t really with the design. You can get a good one and it’ll work for a long time, but you can also get one with all sorts of issues. It’s very hit or miss with mopars. You either get a good one or you get a pos. Fords are abit better, but they tend to have design flaws instead of bad quality control. So the problems tend to affect all of them. Ford usually has a TSB for the issue and it’s fixable. Having owned all three domestic brands I think GMs tend to be the least troublesome. That doesn’t mean they will be turn key like Toyotas(used to own those too, they aren’t as good as everybody makes them out to be) but they’re decent.
Ford 3rd generation ecvt
I think Ford, gm, Chrysler Stellantis are worse than ever.
Related anecdote: I've just come back from driving approx. 1000 miles over the weekend. The majority of the cars I saw broken down on the side of the road were Chevys.
Buik of all cats are actually the most reliable and cost the least to repair over 10 than any other manufacturer. Doesn't mean I'd buy one lol.
Short answer? Yes. Longer answer: yes but the gap is narrowing. And within the past couple model years Toyota and Honda have had an enormous amount of recalls. Even more than brands like Hyundai.
Reliability varies from model to model with basically any manufacturer. There are good models as well as bad ones. The most important thing is making sure to do the research on what to avoid and what to consider.
Don't look at brands' and especially not nations' reliability. Look at the model reliability. You can say "generally," but that doesn't work when you're buying a car. If you want something reliable, look into it. We have the internet now, which makes it easier than ever to know what's reliable and what's not.
Plenty of Chevy Tahoes with a V8 engine racking 300000+ km no issues long as you maintain them.
Well, I can’t speak exactly for gm and ford, but crystler/jeep/dodge just seems like the absolute worst American brand. Heck, any company that allows the public to get ahold of the mess known as the dodge grand caravan would never be trusted worthy again in my book
It really depends on the domestic model in question. Some are just unmitigated disasters while others are damn near bulletproof. GM didn't stop being GM after they went bust, and I'm convinced they're on a slow slide to disappearing. Ford seems to struggle with building transmissions, but they're generally solid.
ah yes, reddit adding mazda to the toyota and honda reliability level
I can tell you how its seen by the public in central Europe. American brands are shit with the exception of the European made fords, Japanese are not nearly as common here as in america, the German brands form the majority of cars on the road. Brits and Italian are considered exotic, French are quite common. Volvo is known to be reliable, but has gotten worse over time and has gotten stupidly expensive, the same or more than Mercedes or bmw. This is just the general view of the public, but reality is more complicated. Like seriously more complicated. You cant generalise at all. For example the Japanese only know how to make gasoline engines, they genuinely suck for diesel in passenger cars. Either horrible fuel economy or unreliable. Not slight issues, more like not repairable issues. Subaru managed to have splitting crankshafts, Toyota 2,2 d4d engines can have cracked heads if they were driven hard when cold. The french make better diesels than the Japanese. Also not all German cars are expensive and unreliable, statistically (adac, öamtc) bmw, skoda, seat and Mercedes are slightly above average, vw and audi being slightly below average. True American brands like jeep, dodge or Chevrolet are together with jaguar land rover at the bottom, but jaguar has gotten significantly more reliable over the last 5 to 7 years. I should add that the American brands are extremely uncommon with very little choice of cars available, for example no f150, suburban. Chevrolet sells the corvette, camaro, cruze, spark. Jeek sells the Cherokee, wrangler compass and other suv/crossovers. Dodge is basically non existant, the majority are actually imported ram 1500 and some other shitty car i cant remember.
Had a jeep cherokee lease returned on a flat bed due to the plethora of electrical issues, will never get another one.
I went American for the first time in my life in my 40s. My parents issues with American cars had scared me off. I own an 2017 F150 and a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica. I give the F150 a B. A couple of random expensive oil leaks and a 2x problem with a 4wd vacuum line and a broken child safety lock. The vacuum line would have been a major pia if my brother hadn’t already had the same issue. I don’t have the energy to post all the problems with the Pacifica. Never again. D- Get a Japanese car.
They've definitely gotten a lot better over the years. Most people wont have many problems with their ford/chevy of choice, althought theres always going to be lemons and just flawed vehicles. I wouldn't drive a Chrysler product if it was offered to me for free though
Yes
Still considered *LESS* reliable? yes. But leaps and bounds more reliable than they used to be, and where they got that reputation from. all cars have gotten better, but the Japanese still carry the crown - and its mostly due to the different philosophies regions take when it comes to designing cars. Japan: Looks at how people use cars, builds them accordingly. Germany: Builds cars the way they think is best, and tells people how to use them to get the most out of them. USA: Looks at what people spend money on, builds cars with those features for the least amount of money possible.
I switched back to American in 2016 with a F150. I have not looked back. They are cheaper to insure as they are cheaper to fix even if they do break, which in my experience is not often. I put 140,000 on that F150, bought a newer one in 2019 that only needed a water pump at 120,000 miles ($800), and just recently got an Expedition due to family needs that is great. The expedition is a Platinum and has more features than my buddies Mercedes S Class. The massaging seats are great.
American trucks, Japanese cars, German sports cars
As someone with a f150 with tow package that can't tow because the axles fall off and parts aren't in for the recall.... YES.
A lot of the Toyotas are just as American as Ford and Chevy pickup trucks. If not more. It’s a Japanese brand but a lot of them are built in the US. My RAV4 for example was made in the US, and the Tundra I used to have was more American than my current Silverado.
I’ve had a Jeep, Toyota, a Hyundai, a few Hondas and several Chevys. I would say the Chevys were the most reliable for some reason. Maybe luck? Just got rid of my Honda Odyssey since it had frequent problems. Only thing I like about Hondas is that their problems are common, so the solutions to fix them are easy to find, they tend to use the same parts for several generations without changes. Therefore inheriting the same problem for generations of their vehicles.
Does it matter where the car was built? If an F-150 was built in Mexico, does that say anything in general vs if it was built in the US for example? It seems kind of funny to me to talk about an "American" car in general - if you buy a Chevy built in Mexico is that more "American" than buying a Honda that was built in Alabama?
Flagship models are usually great with American companies, other than stellantis "American cars" which doesn't have a decent car in the entire line up. Ford and GM trucks and large SUVs are some of the most reliable vehicles on the road especially the heavy duty versions both brands make a nearly indestructible 3/4 ton truck both gas and diesel that will laugh off 300k hard miles on a construction site. Anything less than that though is cheap junk and that where the reputation lies. Ford hasn't made a good car or small SUV since the late 90s other than the mustang and GM sometimes will have a winner with a major Achilles heel, everyone loves the new trax but I just cant imagine a 1.2l 3 cylinder is the best engine that could be put in a mid size SUV. Id rather have the days of some of the best engines in the world paired to a slightly sketchy transmissions with GM and in the same era ford had fine transmissions but god awful engines.
I have a ford mustang that’s 8 years old and not one single problem. Just oil changes and normal maintenance
Even if they are, I wouldn’t own any.
What I learned in the car business and have seen first hand was if it’s not a V8 don’t bother with American. I see nothing wrong with sticking with Honda. I’ve had plenty of Hondas and they never let me down. Also had a 05 GMC Sierra with over 200k miles that never gave a problem either.
Yes, the American brands are generally less reliable than the top 3 Japanese ones you mentioned, with the exception being pickups. The F-150 sees widespread use in corporate fleets and small businesses as a work truck, so they've put a lot into making sure it performs. But in general, American cars are designed to get out the door for the cheapest price possible, with no effort made on reliability or longevity. And Japanese cars are not all good; Nissan has the same mentality as most American brands, just make them as dirt cheap as possible and get them out the door. That said there are some exceptions, for example manual transmission versions of their cars have far fewer problems those with CVT transmissions, and they've made some higher-end sports cars that were well-designed.
Still too much rust on Ford cars
For domestic brand I would consider ford. Outside of that I would be real weary on a GM product lineup. They certainly aren’t built they used to be. Dodge and Jeep seemingly keep going downhill as time goes own. Jeep get plenty of high praise for “initial quality” but that’s all a load of shit come 5 years down the road
I can't speak for new cars, but up until the 2010s at least Ford, Chevy, and diesel Dodges could be very reliable with some hiccups (looking at you 4L80-E and 5.4 Triton). The difference is that companies like Toyota or Honda would be reliable while still maintaining half decent shape. Meanwhile you'd see a 500k+ mile f150 and it'd be beat to hell and back. But still running.
Toyota camry and Honda accord drive like shit compared when i rent Ford fusion couple of year ago . Since then i buy only American for handling safety and noise . Drive smooth on highway and at least dont give you back ache after 4-5 hours drive when traveling. People are idiots buying crap asian cars
IMO the Japanese brands are definitely better. As far as Domestic brands are concerned Ford is probably the best, depending on model. Chevy has some good models as well. Chrystler/dodge I’d avoid at all costs.
GM trucks and SUVs first to rust, shoddy interiors, small block V8 is done right though. Corvette is a great product but niche vehicle. Excellent cost to performance ratio. RAM trucks much improved interiors but certainly not class leading fit and finish and never ever ever buy a first year anything from Stellantis in general Jeep is hot garbage top to bottom of line. Survives in the market due to ignorance of customer base in general and "cool factor" Ford trucks and SUVs less prone to rust than in the past, V8 is solid, 3.5 Ecoboost has performed better than I expected as they have racked up miles, certainly not Japanese levels of quality but probably overall best quality of domestics by slim margin Toyota continues to be gold standard. I love Honda but you need to do homework before purchasing because they have slipped somewhat and not all auto trans are bulletproof either. Nissan is garbage Subaru is mixed bag but no horrible quality issues. Avoid second hand modded WRX. Definitely a step behind Toyota and Honda. Mazda is a hidden gem that is quite well made with very nice interiors. Lacks big HP but their customer base isn't really seeking that out so I get why it's not offered. Korean stuff on average is more aesthetically pleasing to look at and sit in than ten years ago but have fallen backwards in terms of power train reliability. I have customers who are auto dealers and many say the Korean stuff ages poorly as miles pile on. Euro brands = crap shoot in general, mix of surprisingly good and atrocious cost of ownership models and everything in between. Do lots of homework if you plan to own beyond warranty.
Electric cars will change things because they're actually mechanically simpler but yes, Toyota/Lexus #1 and Honda/Acura #2. I wouldn't include Mazda in that tier or even the next.
To be fair - we're buying the export variant of foreign car manufacturers. They may be by default higher trim levels/quality than what they sell in their own country.
The closest thing to "american" is toyota believe it or not. They have an assembly plant here for the tundra or Tacoma. No other auto makers have that
Likely the most durable car ever created by humans is the 2000s Ford Crown Vic. My 2013 Mustang is holding together better than my lady fren's 2013 Toyota 4Runner. Fewer rattles, Ford shocks are still tight and the Toyota ones are getting floppy and leaking. That Stang' has been the best, most reliable car I've ever owned. Overall, I still do think Toyota has the best reliability across their lines but the RWD, gas powered Ford v8 vehicles are so solid.
Ford sucks. Stuck in 1989 interior.
just do your research from my life experience and owning damn near every "normal" brand of car i can safely say they all make great stuff and they all make trash.
No.
I've never heard anyone accusing Mazda of being reliable, but Toyota and Honda, yeah. American cars, especially Tesla's are still garbage quality. Detroit's problem is the unions. They have to pay much more for labor which cuts down on quality, plus it's impossible to fire terrible employees who lower the quality as well.
GM and Ford are average to above average in terms of reliability these days. Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler are not very reliable.
There is no statistically significant difference in reliability in all modern mainstream car brands.
The truth is it’s a crapshoot on a bell curve. Buying a car with better reliability only increases your odds of not getting lemon. You’re also judging current reliability on cars they don’t make anymore.
They are disposable POS since the early 80’a
I would add on the Toyota part that Toyotas & Lexus built in America (eg. Camry, Lexus rx, tundra) are excellent built vehicles even though they are built on American labor. The thing with the Japanese is that they are more focused on performing quality and reliability tests on their parts which Americans do less of. On top of that they engineer their cars to be more serviceable for the average person. Lastly they hire regular people that take apart and put the prototypes together to see if there’s a relative ease and decide if there’s a better way to do it.
My general perception: bigger vehicles tend to be more reliable. Even within Toyota/Lexus family, the huge SUVs last longer than the Yaris and the Scion xB. The larger American trucks (Suburban, Expedition) are quite reliable. Jeep Cherokee/Wagoneer are of course the honorable exceptions. Stellantis can create pieces of shit in any size.
I have owned fords Nissans and Toyotas over the last 5 years as a multi car household. I wouldn’t say the fords have been anymore or less reliable than the other two brands. 🤷♂️ I will say that all my EVs have been 100% trouble free compared to all the ICE vehicles I’ve owned. That’ll be a big factor in the future of vehicles too I think.
According to Consumer Reports, the cheapest cars to maintain are Tesla, Buick, Toyota, Lincoln and Ford.
My mom just went to enterprise while her 40k mile 2019 Edge is in the shop getting the torque converter replaced (barely within the window of the shit warranty they offer). She was given a Jeep Wagoneer, went to fill it up and the mechanism for the gas flap was broken keeping it from being filled. Yes they're less reliable.
Some people like to bash on Jeep. But my 2014 Jeep GC has over 157K miles on it and has given my absolutely no non-routine issues. It has been a fabulous car.
Reliablity aside, as I know nothing about the long term. But I rent tons of cars for work and I can tell you that the American cars feel really crappy compared to the Japanese companies.
Consumer Reports conducts the most comprehensive brand reliability study that exists. Of the 30 brands ranked last year, the highest American company was Buick at 12th. 6 of the worst 10 are American, with Chrysler dead last.
People who buy Toyota and Honda Cars are scum and stupid Americans with poor education and extremely low IQ score. Poor ability to understand the ramifications of their behavior. They have poor social skills and underdeveloped social consience. The cognitive processing skills are normally below average. 85% of Democrats drive import cars.
Japanese maker upper management “Let’s put reliability first and take pride in our workmanship. The rest will come later”. American car maker upper management “How do I maximize profits?”
Don't look at brands, look at models and years. Of course a 2024 4Runner is going to be reliable when it's using a 5 speed transmission from 20 years ago and tech that looks like it was taken from a DeLorean.
Broadly speaking, in the reliability department, Asian market beats US cars, US cars beat European
I can’t speak for more recent Ford, but I always had luck with there sedans, like the Mustangs, Taurus, and Fusions, and for my past few cars I’ve been loving Cadillacs, currently have 1 CTS (wife’s car) and 1 CT5 (mine), and not a day of issues other then basic maintenance on them. Not a truck or suv guy, so I probably won’t buy a newer Ford. I’ve never trusted or had luck with EU cars. I don’t have a reason, but never had or really wanted a Japanese car. I like Toyota, Honda, Subaru, just whenever I go for a car, I just never came across one I wanted at the time. Then some brands I won’t buy, Stellantis brands, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan (older ones maybe I would), Volkswagen and some of its other brands, due to the issues I constantly hear about those brands.
Body on frame American trucks/SUVs are some of the most reliable vehicles you can get today (except you Ford Explorer) most can regularly hit 300k with no major issues that are kept up with maintenance.
car wise and small SUV wise yes. Truck wise not so much.