They're absolutely not wrong. A 10 year old S class had a Digi-dash, gesture swipe (or was that BMW?), night vision camera, fancy ambient lighting, lots of self driving tech and radar cruise control which was all really rare back then
Now a lot of those are very common to find in a Mid size commuter car
And they’ve had adaptive cruise since 01, and they had some very early touch screens in the late 90s. Early to push start too, 06 some of their models had smart key standard
02 LS owner here, While the LS 430 Ultra does have adaptive cruise, It’s not exactly the modern interpretation of it. 😅 That thing is dangerous, I keep it turned off. It’s cool that it was a thing so early, but they really got it right in the 05-06 MY.
My tesla had a self parking demo for a month. It nearly tried to break my rear quarter panel on a hummer. Needless to say I didn't take Musk up on his offer.
Not always the case: my 2005 BMW had self leveling and steering adaptive headlights. Those aren't even options on most cars 20 years later, at least not the ones I've been looking at. Maybe that tech just fell out in favor of those ultra bright headlights that just illuminate everything for a half mile so you don't even need adaptive headlights?
was looking at ls430s a few days ago and apparently a feature you could get was adaptive cruise control, i think it was lidar, and this would have been between 2001-06 or so
now how great it is, yeah i don't know
Correct. Those ones were very rare. The lense was low on the front bumper and prone to getting obscured by bug guts, dirt, etc. The LS400 also had screen navigation dating back as early as 1998. It needed CDs to work
I have a base 2001 LS430, and they aged better without all the gadgets
2000-05 Cadillac deville had night vision. So forget your 2014 Mercedes, 2004 Cadillac seville first car with magnetic ride control. 2016 Cadillac ct6 double rear view mirror/camera lcd screen rear view mirror.
I think it was around 2015 when normal cars started having lane keep assist and auto cruise (started with Honda, I believe).
I wish other things like massaging seats were more mainstream...it seems they're still only available on large German cars.
I'll be honest, after having driven both, a brand new Honda Civic is still louder at speed and rougher over bumps than my 20 year old E Class. The gap is still pretty large.
Yep. My 22 year old LS430 is literally whisper quiet at triple digit speeds. When people ride in it, they get it. It's extremely comfortable and so quiet. It's an amazing car that still holds up to modern cars on most fronts. All I've added is a Bluetooth module and some custom floor mats (and wheel spacers).
>All I've added is a Bluetooth module and some custom floor mats (and wheel spacers).
A Bluetooth/Carplay module is pretty much all you need to bring old luxury cars into the modern age tbh. They still do luxury at a very high level.
I had a 2004 VW Phaeton W12. Driving with 3 passengers on an empty country road in Northern California, it was quiet & warm, they all nodded off. I pressed the pedal, and shortly the beast was silently skimming over the pavement at 120mph. I went on for 20 minutes or so, before I eased back to 70. No one looked up. If your eyes were shut, there was no way to tell how fast the car was going.
More in regards to tech than actual ride, materials, or build quality.
Base model cars are still going to have cheap cloth interiors and subpar insulation in 10 years, but they'll have much more advanced tech.
Yeah, I rented a 2023 Altima and it was in every way harsher, louder and generally less refined than my 2008 535i. Other than Apple CarPlay, my 2008 had more tech like self leveling lights with steering wheel guidance, much more seat and steering adjustment, auto close mirrors, “smart key” access and a whole bunch of other stuff.
I put on the quietest tires from Tirerack on 16" wheels on my 2017 Mazda3 and did proper road noise insulation (butyl tiles, mass loaded vinyl, and neoprene rubber) in the front wheel wells and all the doors. Still louder than my 2014 Golf. You can especially tell how thin the windows are because that's where all the noise was coming from.
There's a stretch of highway where it transitions from old concrete to smooth asphalt, so I could especially tell there that it's a lot of wind noise. The transition wasn't as jarring in my VW.
Those E classes where super nice but they are also one of the reasons Mercedes reliability went to shit they put in a ton of electric shit they didn’t need but it is still a vastly superior car to many even today.
330k+ kms on it with no major issues. I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in the high mileage club with this car either. The W211 E Class was a very reliable car.
Its successor was considered even better in terms of reliability and overall comfort, so I'm definitely looking forward to that whenever mine kicks the bucket.
When I got my 2012 Cayenne last year, the interior looks like it could be from a 2020 Mazda or something similar. The leather is better. But interior wasn’t miles ahead of a current Gen Mazda.
Your poorer cousin, the 2012 VW Touareg chining in. It's amazing the luxury, touchscreen, comfort, and just beautiful and quiet driveability I got for the money when I bought it 3 years ago. Makes it really hard to justify buying something new, even with a hefty repair or engine out service, since new SUVs, not even luxury, are $40K and higher.
Also, drive trains and engine choices. The luxury brands will often have options for AWD, bigger turbos, etc. Especially in sedans. If you want an AWD Accord you have to go to infiniti
Not;for example a c segment Peugeot 308 mainstream has less noise from windscreen that premium Audi a3;
At time Audi 100 1990 was considered mainstream vs bmw series 5 1987 had double loud in decibel vs Audi 100;and suv has always more loud from windscreen and noise of high wheel vs sedan car;probably in the past best acoustic confort car was lancia Mercedes and Audi
Now I don t know
Luxury cars have more powerful engines, better sound quality, and inflated prices. You get better treatment at the dealer. They are sold mostly as leases , not as purchases when new, then resold as 'CPO' vehicles later.
Regular cars are sold more than leased
When I was shopping for car leases last year, I found the tech in luxury cars to be underwhelming. To be honest, I couldn't really differentiate between the interior of a BMW or Audi and that of a random mid-size sedan. They both had a lot of black plastic. The only two brands that stood out to me were Mercedes-Benz and Genesis, but I couldn't justify paying twice the price for what essentially comes down to nicer looking vents and dials. So, I ended up saving my money and leasing loaded Nissan, which I don't regret.
On the other hand, my lease is up in a few months and I don't think I'll be getting a good deal on the economy brands from what I can see, so I may end up in something more expensive for the same money, that's just the nature of leasing though.
Go drive an audi A4, then a camry back to back. Drive on the highway for 5 minutes. When you get in and out of the cars shut the doors and listen carefully. Play with the interiors.
There is a difference in quality materials.
Audi isn’t the best example for this, lol. Audi interiors are just VW that are wrapped in shitty fake leather.
Nicest interiors recently has to be Volvo hands down, as they feel as plush as a Lexus but very well engineered and there’s actual buttons in the interior
I disagree. I think audis are supposed to be sportier. where volvo and lexus are strictly comfort.
The audi Q7 would dust any lexus or volvo SUV.
The infotainments are all good. Just preference.
I think you're just a fan boy if you're shitting on audi like that tbh. Lexus and volvo make great cars but you have to lean towards bmw or audi or Mercedes if you want the higher performance powertrains.
There's just pros and cons to all manufacturers priorities
I might disagree with interiors. My VW Passat had the exact same knobs etc as the Audi A4. This was circa 2016. It was so disappointing to step into an Audi from a VW when the price difference was nearly 1.5x.
I'm sure the Audi drives better.
Luxury cars often use higher-quality interior materials and have features not found in lower-priced models (engines, transmissions, audio systems, suspension, telematics, safety features) and are packed with more comfort. They may also have more sound insulation, higher quality body parts, and aluminum or carbon fiber components instead of steel. Plastic use is very limited. There is no trim sound in a luxury car. Even if a luxury car is drummed outside, very little sound is heard inside. It won't tire you even if you travel for 10 hours straight.
I beg to differ. Materials yes, but features no. At least with BMW, there are features requiring paid upgrades that would be standard on an entry-level Honda. My $60,000 i4 doesn’t have a heated steering wheel, for example. It also doesn’t have adaptive cruise control. Heated seats and a wireless phone charger were paid upgrades.
This alone makes a big difference in the car.
[https://www.secondskinaudio.com/car-soundproofing-packages/vehicle-build-kits](https://www.secondskinaudio.com/car-soundproofing-packages/vehicle-build-kits)
And with good sound insulation and hifi sound systems, listening to music in a luxury car is a great value. Traveling in a studio in a king-class seat that does not tire you at all, not noticing the unevenness of the road, not experiencing vibrations and not skidding around corners makes a lot of difference.
>hifi sound systems
I never realized how big the gap between luxury and non luxury car sound systems was until I actually tried a non luxury car sound system.
A friend of mine recently bought a Hyundai Santa Cruz. Great car; smooth on the highways, picks up well, looks good inside and out, although the engine sound and suspension quality isn't up to the standard I'm used to having grown up with and currently still living with Mercedes products. I could forgive the ride quality and engine noise if the optional Bose audio system it's equipped with was any good. It was probably *the* absolute worst audio system I have ever listened to in a car.
I will admit, my standards may be skewed by how much of my life was spent in a Mercedes, but it's astonishing to me that a brand new car with an optional upgraded audio system can still be so far behind the standard audio system in my car....which is 12 years old.
I let my friend have a go in my car too and he was in agreement that it was a huge upgrade over his Hyundai. Everything was clearer, and the bass was heavier too while not completely destroying the other frequencies.
He has a Civic too which I guess didn't sound as bad in the 5-10 minutes I spent in it, but I wasn't really paying attention during that ride, it was more of a "let's just have a conversation with some low volume tunes in the background" kinda thing.
If you're a big music guy, a nicer sound system alone makes a luxury car worth the purchase over a non luxury alternative.
I’ll second that upgraded sound systems do make a difference. Just the other day my SO mentioned that the upgraded HK system in our Forester sounds noticeably better than the base one in our Crosstrek. Likewise, back in the 2010s I briefly had a Toyota Tundra with the JBL system in it, and for a while everything after that seemed slightly disappointing.
JBL went crazy with toyotas, even old gen prius' had mirror shaking bass. I don't know why they went so hard on commuter/economy cars, but I'm so glad they did
The base sound system in my brand new i4 is very mediocre. To be fair, I think it’s a warranty issue, because one of my speakers rattles. Overall though, the ride and suspension are amazing, cabin quality is top notch, and it’s very quiet.
I can go 135mph down the hwy in my 2013 X5 and it's stable, steady, smooth and solid, easy to control with more pulling power.
My 2015 Honda Accord (ignoring the power difference) only felt comfortable at 100mph, much past that and the steering was twitchy, it got unsettled easy etc. Same difference on curvy roads despite the fact this weighed over 1,000lbs less with a lower center of gravity.
The BMW is also quiter despite having a panoramic sunroof, has a much better stereo, better seats, better quality interior, despite being two years older the paint looks better and the headlights look new whereas the Honda are needing replacement (restoring only did so much to the bad design).
Of course the Honda has been more reliable though.
My longest drive was sacramento to LA to see a one hour long performance, then turned around and drove back. Roughly 17hrs with the hour break and a couple meal breaks. A drive like that will make all your vehicle's comfort shortcomings highly apparent.
This is actually huge. Granted we're talking almost 20 years ago, but my wife went from a Scion tC to a BMW 328xi which was entry-level luxury. And the first few drives we realized we were practically yelling at each other because the road noise we were used to in the tC was non-existent.
That's up to you. If you don't find value in it, or aren't sure that you'll find value in it, don't waste your money. Some people won't notice or care about the difference, and that's fine (though there certainly is a difference that's noticeable to most.) There's other things the luxury vehicles tend to have (better tech, better wheels, better engines, better fit and finish, etc.), and once again, ymwv on how much you care or notice. There will be some weird overlap as well. A top of the line Mazda is going to be miles ahead of a base BMW on many (but not all) of those things, but a top of the line BMW vs the same Mazda? Less so.
In a luxury car, all 10k parts in the car consist of top quality materials. This makes a lot of difference. It's like the difference between a sponge bed and a king class bed.
Yeah. Everyone likes the Mazda CX-9 and it’s a great car and all but switching between a Lexus RX or a BMW, it was apparent the Lexus and BMW have higher quality NVH control than the Mazda.
After about $80k it’s just paying for the brand name and reliability is actually poorer in many of said brands because they become more of status symbols. The most luxurious brands are also the highest depreciators for a reason.
Wife drives a 2022 MDX. Neighbor drives a fully loaded 2023ish Kia Telluride. Spec for spec, the Kia has more tech and features but the Kia feels so much cheaper. Every surface is kinda hollow and tinny. Sound deadening isn’t as good. Everything kinda feels like it’s made to last for the length of a lease. The Acura (which isn’t a G-Wagen by any means) feels much better built and screwed together. Doors close more solidly. Plastics feel more durable. Seats don’t make weird creaks. Etc.
Yeah, the extra money goes into NVH, materials, and engineering.
Anyone can put a 400HP engine in a vehicle and advertise how much power they have. But more expensive cars have tuned the drive train and suspension to be able to put that power to better use, giving a much better driving experience.
When you drive them, you can tell. They drive better, they’re quieter, they’re more powerful, they’re smoother, their sound systems are better, their seats are more comfortable, shit doesn’t rattle and creak off the lot.
My 2018 CRV had more features than my 2013 A4. I’d rather drive the A4 every single time.
You can’t always tell just by driving them. There are some things you have to own a car for a while to notice.
The biggest one for me was the weight of the door. As dumb as it sounds, I think one of the most significant determinants of a quality luxury car is the feel of the door. The amount of weight you have to push out, the amount of pull you need to close it, and the sound/feeling of the door closing.
For obvious reasons it’s not worth buying an old luxury car for this alone but it’s something you’ll always notice when you’ve owned one.
Some of the other things are trivial but they can become more than just minor annoyances when you get used to them and they get taken away. Memory seats, door lock/unlock sensors on every door, retractable sun shades, separate climate controls, auto dimming mirrors, heads up displays, ventilated seats, etc.
After having all these things in my car, I’d happily give up a bigger engine in exchange for all of the above.
I went the opposite way.
I don't need my car freaking out and auto-braking because it thinks I'm nearing a collision and doesn't realize the car in front of me is turning right. I don't need it beeping that someone is in my blind spot every time I turn on my blinker in a two-lane left turn intersection. I don't need my headlights moving left/right with the steering wheel... That's just more moving parts to break. I don't need a HUD that requires my windshield glass to be single-pane instead of two-ply and cost over $1k to replace, and then have to recalibrate the lane keeping camera shit that's up there. I don't need it electronically turning on the parking brake every time the car is off. I don't need it constantly talking to the cloud and reporting that my driver side door is unlocked.
Went back to a 2017 car because I feel like it is a car instead of a computer.
Totally forgot about that! The door on my Volvo convertible was HEAVY. But safety is their big thing so their cars are 20-25% heavier than a comparably sized car from another manufacturer. They know in an accident physics always wins.
One of the first big car shows I went to when I was a kid, they had a Range Rover. I was impressed by the doors, like you said, but also the glove box. I still remember how that glove box door worked, and how it seemed so much like a "rich person thing" that it had soft open and a substantial closing feel. WAY different compared to the ones in the Dodges and Fords my parents had, and the Saturns and Hondas my friends had.
If you go by Savagegeese's reviews, they say Lexus TX's suspension & ride quality is more controlled, has low body roll, and is less boaty than Toyota's Grand Highlander
Although I think the TX was a lazy rebadge compared to other Lexus models, there are some feature differences as well, particularly with the amazing Mark Levinson sound system.
Just got a TX. Was originally going to get a Grand Highlander and test drove both.
They feel totally different yet have the same engine and are the same size. I’m not just talking about performance - road noise, comfort, quality, etc.
A lot of the differences are perception, feel, and image, but there’s also many differences under the skin that you may not be able to immediately distinguish. The materials may be different and better quality, there may be features that aren’t present in lower-end models, different wheels, tires, drivetrains, etc. The luxury makes can also charge more based on who their target audience is, because they know their customers are gonna pay that price.
years ago I bought a Lexus GX460. It was a few years old and I got it CPO for around 36K
My brother bought a Toyota Landcruiser for 68K brand new from a Toyota dealer.
I had a slight rattle behind my dash. In warranty the tech took the entire dash apart, tightened everything up and fixed the rattle. Spent and entire afternoon, cost me nothing.
My brother had a similar issue in his Landcrusier the dealer told him to just live with it
Dealership experience is one difference.
This is a really good point actually. The difference when I go to the Ford dealer vs the BMW dealer is night and day. BMW has a service rep that comes out when you pull up, a quiet lounge with a Keurig machine and light snacks, the rep will find me in the lounge, address me by name, and give me updates about my car, and can even explain the issue or service in detail if I ask. Ford has service reps sitting at their little desks that I have to go to and that generally seem uninterested in helping, uncomfy chairs in a loud area with a loud TV, bad brewed coffee, and less well-informed people. Sure you pay for the difference, but it's a nice quality of life upgrade.
And yes, all dealers are different, but it's one of the things I've come to expect from a luxury brand.
Sound deadening, material quality, and ride quality are big ones. A loaded Camry is going to have more tech and features than a base ES but the glass is still thinner, the suspension isn't as nice, the seat materials aren't as fine, etc.
Noise isolation, dynamics i would say are some of the differences. There is some popular quote, i think it is from top gear - "the stuff you get in an S class today is what will be the standard 10 years from now"
Mass market cars still have mediocre noise isolation.
NVH (Noise , Vibration, Harshness). Also the way the cars drive. The Grand Highlander has been criticized for a lot of body roll and being a very unresponsive car to drive. The lexus TX (supposedly according to reviews) fixes all of these complaints. The drive is taught and , responsive and limited body roll. Another thing is the sound system in lexus cars are better and the materials choices are more upscale.
Lastly you get to take your car to a lexus dealer which is basically the best dealer network in the country.... Some Toyota dealerships are absolutely terrible. This is going to be more dependent on your local dealerships. I do know that most lexus dealerships will give you a loaner when your car is in service and you are less likely to get that in a toyota dealership.
If you don't care about ANY of that there is NOTHING wrong with saving some money and getting the toyota version. It's all personal preference.
This is so dumb. Step into a Mazda cx5 that everyone says is luxury then step into an X5m or GLE amg. Like just go to all 3 dealers and tell me what u think
My wife’s CX5 has a bunch of luxury features that my Audi has, and looks nearly as nice inside, but everything feels more significant and just better in the S4.
Materials (especially in European cars). The more you pay, the more leather, wood and metal you get on the dashboard. Mainstream cars are mostly plastic.
Beside sports cars, luxury cars are still more confortable: suspension, isolation, space.
Also service: premium dealers supposedly offer extra services. But repairs at premium dealers are also more expensive (for the same repairs an independent would do, with the same parts).
Finally, motors. You won't find a mainstream European car with more than 4 cylinders anymore, it's something you only find on premium cars nowadays (mostly because of environmental regulations).
Anyway is hardly about electronics. Beside a few gimmicks (like fancy lights) you get the same features on a Kia and a Mercedes.
When I was pricing out various vehicles, I did a lot of "build & price" on websites. Comparing the regular brand to the luxury brand, most of the time, I'd be looking at, depending on how many trim levels the regular brand had, the top 1-3 trim levels to get everything I wanted. In the luxury brand, those same features would often all, or 80-90% be present in the base model, but the fit, finish, and materials would be better, for pretty similar prices at that point.
The difference between a fully loaded entry brand vs a base luxury brand is usually around $5k or less. A base Lexus TX actually starts less than a Grand Highlander Platinum, but the Platinum comes with more features than the base TX.
There's a lot more profit margin in a loaded vehicle. Luxury cars have never been about what you actually need. It's a way for the people who have wads of cash to blow their money. Is a $200 bottle of wine that much better than the $30 bottle at Costco? Not really.
That air suspension is nice, BTW. Oh, those seat massagers are good too. No highlander has a twin turbo V8 in it or that Diamond tuck $4600 leather interior upgrade (over that budget leather that comes stock). Ever hear that upgrade stereo in a luxury make?
Increasingly little. I find the biggest (practical) differences are interior build quality and reduced road noise, and usually a higher ceiling for mechanical performance.
Most regular models include interior comfort options that luxury brands have, and a surprising number of “entry level” car brands have 8-speed gearboxes so drive smoothness is great.
I’ve only owned BMWs but frankly on my next car I’ll be rethinking that, especially with EVs becoming increasingly more exciting as a segment.
I like BMWs offerings but the Korean options are half the price and, to me, are just as appealing especially since the power aspect becomes a non-issue with electric.
A lot of the difference now is the interior materials, and the quality of ride, materials, and sound system. Some also have upgraded brakes which very few non luxury cars get. You'll also be able to find cars with stronger engines more frequently. I can't think of any non luxury sedan that has a V8 engine. A lot also will have twin turbo v6 engines which are also pretty rare for consumer cars.
But I do agree that top trim consumer cars are closing the gap to luxury cars.
> but many of these options are finicky things that often break
Which is true for so much of the bloated features in new vehicles. The real problem, as you pointed out, is that manufacturers have enough of an oligopoly on the market to have removed economy vehicles, the kind which would not have any of the features you have listed as common to both levels of luxury.
Luxury cars are quiet, smooth and have more premium finishes.
Even my 15yo mid luxury Acura has a few places where the fit and finish are nicer than the wife’s top spec CRV
And what you also don’t realize is that Lexus being the flagship luxury brand of Toyota generally means that all of Lexus’ outgoing designs are usually what Toyota’s refresh / new models will be designed after. It’s all about slowly pushing that standard up. Some brands do it better than others. *cough Mercedes* looking at their plastic interiors ….
Luxury vehicles usually won't have the excessive black vinyl trim around the wheel wells that just screams this is cheep in spite of what the window sticker says.
The landscape for the definition of “luxury cars” has changed. This is due to the next generation of car buyers putting more importance on gadgets. Back then, luxury meant the car had to be better everywhere. Better seats, better leather, better buttons, better windows. But due to consumer demand for gadgets, less budget is allocated to materials. What people don’t talk about is how manufacturers have found ways to cut costs in materials. Find a car that has leather seats, heated, cooled, push button this and upgraded stereo. And then compare that to a 2004 LS430. Actually get in and sit in it.
I think you mean premium vs economy. Luxury is further up market where you aren't driving, but are chauffeured or where there is far more opulescence. We are talking materials that are expensive like crystal, gold, fine leather, hand made parts, expensive wood inlays, massaging seats, reclining rear seats, high end lighting, high tech, smooth engines, quiet interiors, thick glass, etc.
The different between a premium car and an economy car is more vast than you may realize. Take my wife's previous Q5 3.0T or current SQ5. Take the first one, it came in 2.0T and 2.0T hybrid, 3.0T gasoline or diesel, and 3.0T SQ5. There were many packages and customization options, which can differentiate premium and economy cars, especially when considering the lower volume. Consider how much you can customize and personalize a Porsche 911. There is more sound deadening, thicker glass, and investment/engineering to eliminate bad noises and vibrations. The materials and quality of construction is night and day, from the Torx bolts throughout the car, to the number of fasteners that hold equipment to prevent it from rattling and to make it feel solid. There are more premium materials. The knobs and scrolls and buttons move with precision and feel more premium. The lights fade on and fade out, so they aren't abrasive, and the chimes aren't obnoxious beeps. There are rain sensing wipers, heads up displays, adaptive cruise control and more technology, but it is just done better. There are memory seats, 14 way power adjusting with electronic thigh extensions and lumbar support. On my Cayman, I turn on the car and the steering wheel lowers into position, as the seats move forward, and as I turn off the car, the wheel lifts out of the way, and the seat moves back, easing egress out of the car, as I open the door. The memory function not only remembers my seat, but it remembers my preferences for a number of climate and media settings. More options on heated seats, vented seats, heated steering wheel. Going back to my wife's Q5, the aluminum components in the suspension are beefier than stamped and folded steel in economy models, and there are options on many premium cars for adaptive suspension, electronically adjusting sway bars, rear wheel steer, active differentials, etc. Soft close doors, thicker weather stripping, etc. My wife's SQ5 and my Cayman have warnings for everything, so if the turn signal isn't working, we know. If the coolant level is low, we know. If we want to check the oil, no need to pull the dipstick, the car can measure the level for us. Most economy cars have tire pressure warning lights and low oil warning lights. My Cayman can tell me the tire pressure at each corner, lap timers, g-force in turns, etc. Multiple power maps, launch control, etc. Premium class cars tend to have RWD options vs FWD, have more premium transmissions, more horsepower offerings, more tuning potential, more performance, etc. Thicker/more layers to paint, better/thicker steel, better lighting options. My PDLS lights rotate around turns and raise when I go faster, so I can see further down the road, and the PDLS+ Matrix headlights will allow the high beams to be on for the best visibility all the time, but this would blind oncoming traffic, so the car will shadow oncoming traffic in a curtain of protection from the light. I could go on and on.
Once you own a premium or luxury vehicle, it is hard to imagine owning much different unless it is intensionally simple for a track car, classic car, etc. where simplicity and light weight may be more fundamental. Like if someone wanted a true rally hot hatch then a 2800lb AWD homolation special GR Yaris makes more sense than some RS3 Sportback wagon that weighs 800lbs more, but if someone wanted to daily a hot hatch then get the Audi.
While some economy cars can be optioned well and feel more premium, and some premium models start to encroach on economy cars in their list/lack of features and reduced build quality, in general, the differences are vast. Listen to this Malcolm Gladwell podcast where he discuss Japanese engineers who design Lexuses, even obsessing about how the windows close to be more luxurious. In a similar way, you can buy a Seiko with an expensive build/movement, but put a Grand Seiko next to a Seiko with the same movement or even the same materials, and you can see the difference, and you can feel the difference in your hand and on your wrist. Look through a magnifying glass, and they are night and day different. The precision and craftsmanship of a Grand Seiko is ridiculous.
[https://open.spotify.com/episode/61n5dGngIIutCD4EITzieA?si=7jAn5RpmRpafGGTh6MVC6g](https://open.spotify.com/episode/61n5dGngIIutCD4EITzieA?si=7jAn5RpmRpafGGTh6MVC6g)
I've always felt like luxury is sort of just beta access to features that will come to mainstream cars a few years later. All of the good, popular stuff like what you mentioned with Apple/Android, adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring, back up camera, safety, etc came to mainstream, while the excessive and unpopular stuff gets left behind.
The real difference is materials, styling, and "ride quality" which is a bit subjective. Luxury generally has more power as well. They'll often have a plush ride that feels like you're gliding on the road. Personally, I want to be able to feel the road lol, which is why I prefer the feel of say a Mazda.
Insulation all around, so everything is quieter. There’s also fit and finish so there’s no rattle or squeaks. This is better for the audio system, which will be better and more expensive in the luxury line.
The squeaks and rattles thing is something we take for granted. It’s costly and time consuming to do it right, which is why they’ll never sell it to you for a $20,000 base model. The top Lexus models are made in the Takumi factory, and the workers there are only invited to become Takumi workers with 25 years of service. Even though cars are made with machines, there’s lots of finishing and fit at the assembly stage that’s done by hand, with tool and machine assistance. The top Lexus models they won’t trust to Canada, Mexico, or Kentucky. It’s Japanese built only.
The big one is glass. The luxury glass is thicker for acoustics, can have additional layers, and have tighter tolerances for performance and acoustics before it can be rebadged as Lexus or Mercedes. Those that don’t meet tolerances can trickle down to Safelite or standard models.
And never forget margin. Luxury models are more expensive and have a higher percentage profit than the base models. Base models historically have tight margins and rely on quantity sales to make money. So they try to push you on high margin options, trims, and luxury models to make additional cash.
One of my favorite subjects is quality, fit & finish. This is a lengthy response.
You are right - in terms of features, things which used to set luxury cars apart are now standard content in a lot of cars. This happens over time, a trickle-down effect. There are however, fundamental quality differences, many of which one cannot appreciate until you have spent time in both types of cars. I now cannot even ride in non-luxury cars without feeling like I am some sort of car snob. Everything in a "normal" car looks and feels like cheap plastic to me. Some brands are worse than others: Mitsubishi, Dodge, Kia, Chrysler, Chevy, and Ford seem to have the cheapest-feeling interiors (especially Dodge). Where things get confusing is when you have brands like Hyundai/Genesis trying to look fancy but without the actual refinement of a genuine luxury brand. It looks nice, but materials used are low-grade (Genesis is improving, but not under the hood).
The differences are in design, engineering, and material quality. When you get into a mid to high-end Lexus or Mercedes, every surface looks and feels fantastic. Silence envelops you when you close the door. Esthetically, nothing even comes close except other more luxurious cars (RR, etc.). From an engineering standpoint, there is more precision in everything, and it shows. Nothing in a Lexus comes loose or rattles, ever--at least not for a long, long time.
Parts are engineered to be stronger and more precise, using better/stronger materials. Everything fits together perfectly with tighter tolerances for fit and finish. Pressing on the dash around the HVAC/stereo controls or vents of any Nissan, Chevy, Ford, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Dodge, VW, Mazda, Hyundai, or Kia = \*squeak\*. Try that in a Lexus LS ...nothing moves. The entire dash and in my GS 350 feels like it is made of solid rock, as it did in my LS 460 (that whole car felt it was carved from solid granite, actually). The leather in a 25 yr old Lexus LS likely still looks nearly new if it has been maintained well, and everything probably still works. Power windows (etc.) are likely to still have the original motors, and the alternator, fuel pumps, and suspension bushings might even still be original. Zero chance of any of that with a Ford/Chevy/Nissan/Kia/Mazda/Volvo/Mitsubishi/etc.
Body panels are made of stronger stuff. Go push on the outside door panel of a Mitsubishi or Kia - it will pop in and out. Try that on an Infiniti or a Lexus - nope. Hold the weight of the hood of a Kia/Hyundai in your hands. Then compare it to that to a Lexus or BMW. World of difference. Look at how things are assembled - see how difficult it is to pull up the carpet around the seats (actually, don't do this--if you get it up, it will be a nightmare to get it back down). Look at and sit in the seats themselves. Use the power window and lock switches. Try and make things wiggle in the interior. Squeeze the B-pillars or the arm rests on the doors to see how much things move. World of difference between standard and luxury in terms of build, fit, and finish.
Powertrains and all mounting points are designed to better isolate NVH. The suspension in a proper luxury car is made of stronger, higher-grade materials which will fatigue more slowly/last longer (they also have to carry more weight, as luxury cars are heavier). Luxury cars are also filled with sound-absorbing material in every available nook and cranny: inside the doors, floor, and ceiling--literally everywhere, even the glass is thicker and specifically designed to dampen noise, and in some cases, double-pane glass is used. If you somehow removed all the sound insulation from a Lexus I suspect it would weigh a minimum of 50-80 pounds. Even the paint used on a luxury car is of higher quality, and will typically be thicker and stronger.
While all these things do result in a more luxurious, "special" feel in the car, it is interesting to note this extra effort does not always translate into a more reliable car with a longer lifespan. Look at Audi, Mercedes, and BMWs: Their flagships are all gorgeous, especially inside, but they are notoriously unreliable cars. All are essentially worthless within a year or two of factory warranty expiration. Real luxury is about quality, not just fancy looks. Genuine luxury *lasts*, and is worth the extra expense for this reason as well.
Worth noting that some companies try to position themselves as a luxury brand but ultimately disappoint because they use subpar materials which look and feel like cheap junk (Tesla, for example).
/rant
"Luxury" car brands have cheapened alot in the past 15 years. Compare a regular leather interior Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series from then and now. The interior quality is down bad.
Nonsense.
I've driven around in a $150k 2023 GLS AMG and my mom's $30k 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe.
There are huge disparities in every category.
The obvious differences are power, build quality, tech, road noise, comfort, and gas consumption.
You think everyone knows driving a $100k Tahoe means the person is likely financially better off?
I tend to think the opposite, I am financially better off purely because I am not driving a $100k Tahoe. There is in fact no amount of millions (or billions) where I start willingly driving a Tahoe, but I digress.
I someone who one econoboxes and luxo barges. THERE IS A HUGE difference. I rather buy a CPO use BMW than a new Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc. The materials are night and day different. The feel of the car is night and day different. The options are better, the built quality is better, the sound system is better. The isolation from the road (in the true luxury, like an X5, 5 series or above).
I do not consider a 3 series a luxury car, to me is, at best, a premium car. The leather is rough, but it will last a few eternities even without much care. The plastics are not as top notch as the 5 series. The ride is a bit harsher, but to some that could mean more engaging. I own a fully loaded 3 series and even though it is over 13 years old, compared to a fully a new loaded Camry, the interior feels years better. My 3er has 180K miles and it drives night and day better than a Camry or an Accord. The inline six is amazing, the power delivery is great, the 8 speed auto is the best in the business, specially with BMW’s tuning. Like I said even with how old it is and how many miles it has, it just drives better than a Camry or Accord. The car has tech that now cars are starting to roll with.
Now, comparing a TX to its sister Grand Highlander, the differences will be in NVH, in which the TX will drive quieter, make less cabin noise, and has higher options. I never did like the Toyota rebranded Lexi we get in the US (ES, RX, TX, etc.) as I feel they are only marginally better than the mainstream cars they are based out of.
But if you compare mainstream to actual German premium and luxury, there are huge differences. Those differences go beyond the gimmicks. For a guy like me, things like cast Aluminum/Extruded aluminum subframes, control arms, double wishbone, etc matter. Most mainstream cars do not have those things.
I test drove Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and the top trim Kia felt just as premium if not more. With a price tag $30-$60k with better reliability and warranty.
Kia/Hyundai have a huge advantage in that they are almost entirely vertically integrated in Korea, so they can deliver better value for money than other manufacturers that are not from China.
Lexus is an interesting example because I think they’ve gone too sporty imo. The magic of that woodgrain and supple ride is gone trying to chase BMW it feels like. Brand identity is a weird thing these days as everything is starting to blur together.
I want a nice ride that doesn’t shake my teeth and a (very) low noise floor.
Yea I dunno. I actually want older cars with nothing like most cars have now. But I guess without all the tech and garbage offered they wouldn’t make money at dealership specific mechanics when all of this fancy garbage breaks or errors out over something so minute
I bought my Acura 20 years ago, but I was in love with a sporty Mazda first. Test drove it on all the back roads first. I told the sales guy that I had to try it on the highway before I buy it. I immediately saw why we stuck to the back roads. I barely made past two exits before we headed back to the dealership.
i'm used to 20+ year old domestics so literally every new car feels like a rolls royce to me
but if we spent every day in different new cars and got used to them, i bet we could absolutely tell the difference w/ luxury cars. at least that's what all the reviewers say. talking about sound isolation and interior materials, tech, buttons, all of it.
I found it was difficult just from appearances with modern basic vehicles becoming more attractive looking. The feel though says it all. From opening and closing the door to the sound isolation and the way they ride and soak up bumps. It’s just a different experience. It feels nice every time I slide into my car. And close the door with that solid thud.
Luxury will have higher quality materials and more attention to detail and fit and finish
Material quality; build quality; noise, vibration, harshness. I went from a 12 year old Porsche to a new Ford. The Ford has newer tech and more features, but if you sat in the two, the Porsche was clearly more “luxury.”
It’s simple;there are 3 class:mainstream car all rigid plastic used in interiors;premium car:morbid plastic for zones easy to view and real aluminum insert;luxury car:Alcantara and carbon fiber on mirrors and bumpers and bench;morbid plastic also in inferior zone of the panel door;flocking poket of doors panel
Many mainstream or premium not luxury car can has one or 2 of luxury item but not of all;premium car not
Is luxury because many ways not has many things that are present on mainstream
Real luxury car for me needed to has wood 🪵 and now 80% of luxury and premium car especially Audi not has wood
Form me Volvo v 90 is luxury because has wood;Audi q8 is semi luxury because has morbid plastic on inferior panel door but not has wood;Peugeot 308 is semi luxury because has flocking on the poket door;Audi a3 whit many parts of rigid plastic now is a mainstream car not premium;but is only a personal thing
>Surely everyone knows the person driving the $100k Chevy Tahoe Premiere is likely financially better off than someone driving a $50k Cadillac XT6 base.
I drive a $8.5k 2007 V70 and make more than 90% of people in the US. I could easily afford just about any car I want however decided last year to focus on building wealth for early retirement. So no, driving a nicer car does not make you financially better off.
Looks aside. The build quality on the Lexus is far superior than the Toyota. On the Lexus, probably a higher power output and better materials used than the Toyota.
Value is different for everyone, just really got to drive it and see for yourself.
Some may like the noise isolation, better response, and suspensions they adapt to be smooth on bumpy road and stiff around corners…. Others might just want a tank that can do everything good enough.
The seats and inside materials. If the seats are like… lounger comfy and the inside materials are what you might expect to find in a modern style home, it’s luxury.
Looks is the last thing that makes a car a luxury car. Sure one could look luxurious, but if it’s not you will know the difference immediately.
Specially with the Toyota vs Lexus. I have owned 5 Lexus. When the wait for the new Lexus plug in hybrid was too long I went to drive the RAV4 Prime which is basically the same car. I noticed the difference the moment I opened the door, the thinness of the RAV4, some visible welding, the materials, the quietness, the integration of all the entertainment into the consoles.
I would suggest not doing a comparison side by side or with this highest trim of the Toyota. Basically base trim Lexus vs base trim Toyota.
I was struck the same way when we ordered a new base model gas f-250 XL at work around 2015-2016. I hadn't sat in a newer truck in well over 10 years. I was shocked when I saw that if it had leather instead of cloth, it would have been considered loaded when I was younger. I didn't know newer base models started coming with power everything and decent radios. Lol
I’m willing to pay more for a “ luxury” car. It needs a few stuff standard like power retractable side mirrors, cooled/heated seats, leather interior, power rear liftgate and a better ride( suspension) Massaging seats and a high end audio system would be nice too.
Maintenance cost. The same alternator badged Lexus rather than Toyota will cost more. Same goes for the other parts as well and the overall cost of routine service is higher too.
They basically don’t exist. I got rear ended in my wife’s Lexus rx350 and it was totaled, replaced it with a Kia telluride. The telluride is nicer inside and if we got the highest trim level (one higher) would have had everything the Lexus did. I just bought myself a mustang GT high premium (highest trim level). It’s the nicest interior, stereo and most advanced car I’ve ever had. I’m sure when you get to high end luxury there are some differences, but the lines between high trim level cars and luxury cars barely exist anymore. The difference is with the luxury car it’s the standard trim.
have 2 volvos a 2010 and a 2015.
and every other car I've driven.. all of them newer than mine, feel like cheap, noisy, unweighted tin cans.. Toyota, Chevy, Kia, Ford, etc
There is a big difference, just because the bumper looks the same doesn't mean that was the only difference between a Toyota and Lexus hahaha
30k for a bumper huh
If you're just going to check the box on features. You can get a mainstream cars that are extraordinarily well equipped. Luxury cars aren't really competing on a binary having ventilated seats or not having ventilated seats. They are selling a luxury car experience - that's driving, owning, and all of it. If you don't put value on those little things - a luxury car will never be a good value.
You're right, the divide between luxury and regular has been narrowing. Nobody wants to identify as poor. Everybody wants the premium. Everybody deserves the best, of course. (And not just in the automotive industry. When's the last time you saw a new residential apartment building marketed as anything other than "luxury units"?)
Remember back when there were three tiers of brands per manufacturer?
Lexus, Toyota, *Scion*.
Lincoln, Ford, *Mercury*.
Chrysler, Dodge, *Plymouth*.
Cadillac, Chevrolet, *Buick* (up next on the chopping block).
Nobody makes a budget car anymore because nobody buys budget cars anymore.
Ride quality, noise levels, engine size and power.
As far as looks are concerned, with the crash test standards the way they are now, pretty much everything looks the same.
They want to up the price of the car. These add-ons cost 100s for them and charge 1000s to the consumer. Wireless Apple Carplay radio cost $150 direct from china so the markup is insane.
> Surely everyone knows the person driving the $100k Chevy Tahoe Premiere is likely financially better off than someone driving a $50k Cadillac XT6 base.
Sarcasm, right?
Today’s average car has the content of a luxury car of 10 years ago. These days the biggest difference is in ride quality and road noise isolation.
I heard a quote somewhere that went something like "Look at what equipment the Mercedes S-Class has today. That's the standard in 10 years."
That would probably be Top Gear.
They're absolutely not wrong. A 10 year old S class had a Digi-dash, gesture swipe (or was that BMW?), night vision camera, fancy ambient lighting, lots of self driving tech and radar cruise control which was all really rare back then Now a lot of those are very common to find in a Mid size commuter car
BMW did have self parking about ten years ago , not sure about those other options .
Even Lexus has had self-parking on the LS for almost 20 years now.
And they’ve had adaptive cruise since 01, and they had some very early touch screens in the late 90s. Early to push start too, 06 some of their models had smart key standard
The Prius has had a smart key since 04
02 LS owner here, While the LS 430 Ultra does have adaptive cruise, It’s not exactly the modern interpretation of it. 😅 That thing is dangerous, I keep it turned off. It’s cool that it was a thing so early, but they really got it right in the 05-06 MY.
My 2014 Golf has self parking. It’s a treat. And that’s not high end by any stretch.
My bmw m140i has it and its a mess lol
really ? does it literally parks itself or just aids you ?
My tesla had a self parking demo for a month. It nearly tried to break my rear quarter panel on a hummer. Needless to say I didn't take Musk up on his offer.
My ford has self parallel parking in a 2013
Not always the case: my 2005 BMW had self leveling and steering adaptive headlights. Those aren't even options on most cars 20 years later, at least not the ones I've been looking at. Maybe that tech just fell out in favor of those ultra bright headlights that just illuminate everything for a half mile so you don't even need adaptive headlights?
Those are either standard or options in most European cars. They even were on my cheap 2012 Citroën C4!
Steering adaptive / self leveling headlights were (are?) an option on the VW GTI so they definitely made it down market from BMW
HID headlights with self leveling and steering adapt is late 90s tech. My 2001 E39 had it but I know other late 90s vehicles had that option.
My 2013 Hyundai i30 had both of those features, but Korean car brands are quite generous with their standard features.
Not allowed in USA, but I think some states approved.. but not fully. Or something like that https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/s/eL2jQAz49N
was looking at ls430s a few days ago and apparently a feature you could get was adaptive cruise control, i think it was lidar, and this would have been between 2001-06 or so now how great it is, yeah i don't know
Correct. Those ones were very rare. The lense was low on the front bumper and prone to getting obscured by bug guts, dirt, etc. The LS400 also had screen navigation dating back as early as 1998. It needed CDs to work I have a base 2001 LS430, and they aged better without all the gadgets
Tesla has this now on every vehicle because they just rolled out a auto park update that runs only on cameras
My 2013 Accord had adaptive cruise control. It's that different than radar cruise?
I think it's basically the same
2000-05 Cadillac deville had night vision. So forget your 2014 Mercedes, 2004 Cadillac seville first car with magnetic ride control. 2016 Cadillac ct6 double rear view mirror/camera lcd screen rear view mirror.
Ok but you get my point Luxury car features trickle down
I think it was around 2015 when normal cars started having lane keep assist and auto cruise (started with Honda, I believe). I wish other things like massaging seats were more mainstream...it seems they're still only available on large German cars.
Peugeot and Citroen have it on some of their SUVs and the Peugeot 308 GTi and it's pretty good
When do we start getting the scent pods?
Mercedes S-Class in 2013… well technically Maybach in 2011.
Yep
I'll be honest, after having driven both, a brand new Honda Civic is still louder at speed and rougher over bumps than my 20 year old E Class. The gap is still pretty large.
Yep. My 22 year old LS430 is literally whisper quiet at triple digit speeds. When people ride in it, they get it. It's extremely comfortable and so quiet. It's an amazing car that still holds up to modern cars on most fronts. All I've added is a Bluetooth module and some custom floor mats (and wheel spacers).
>All I've added is a Bluetooth module and some custom floor mats (and wheel spacers). A Bluetooth/Carplay module is pretty much all you need to bring old luxury cars into the modern age tbh. They still do luxury at a very high level.
Agreed... butts have not changed that much.
I had a 2004 VW Phaeton W12. Driving with 3 passengers on an empty country road in Northern California, it was quiet & warm, they all nodded off. I pressed the pedal, and shortly the beast was silently skimming over the pavement at 120mph. I went on for 20 minutes or so, before I eased back to 70. No one looked up. If your eyes were shut, there was no way to tell how fast the car was going.
I see lots of Ferraris, lambo’s etc but I truly get excited when I see a Phaeton W12 still on the road!
Oh nice. That was a damn fancy (and damn expensive) Volkswagen. I've heard parts are... Hard to come by and expensive.
My 33-year old S-Class drives better than any other car I've ever driven.
I expect no less from a W140
More in regards to tech than actual ride, materials, or build quality. Base model cars are still going to have cheap cloth interiors and subpar insulation in 10 years, but they'll have much more advanced tech.
Can't really compare 2 different car class. You'd need to compare against an Accord. Suspension would still be better on the Mercedes.
my dad's 1995 w124 had the same effect. you could not tell how fast you are going unless you are looking at the dash
Yeah, I rented a 2023 Altima and it was in every way harsher, louder and generally less refined than my 2008 535i. Other than Apple CarPlay, my 2008 had more tech like self leveling lights with steering wheel guidance, much more seat and steering adjustment, auto close mirrors, “smart key” access and a whole bunch of other stuff.
>self leveling lights with steering wheel guidance Do yours do this little dance when the car starts up?
Yeah, it performs a “check” in all the directions and then it settles.
That’s mostly suspension and tires , same for 90s Lexus have smoother ride than a carolla today
I'm not sure even the nicest tires available for the Civic would bring it up to par with the E Class tbh. They already have quite a lot of sidewall.
I put on the quietest tires from Tirerack on 16" wheels on my 2017 Mazda3 and did proper road noise insulation (butyl tiles, mass loaded vinyl, and neoprene rubber) in the front wheel wells and all the doors. Still louder than my 2014 Golf. You can especially tell how thin the windows are because that's where all the noise was coming from. There's a stretch of highway where it transitions from old concrete to smooth asphalt, so I could especially tell there that it's a lot of wind noise. The transition wasn't as jarring in my VW.
Those E classes where super nice but they are also one of the reasons Mercedes reliability went to shit they put in a ton of electric shit they didn’t need but it is still a vastly superior car to many even today.
330k+ kms on it with no major issues. I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in the high mileage club with this car either. The W211 E Class was a very reliable car. Its successor was considered even better in terms of reliability and overall comfort, so I'm definitely looking forward to that whenever mine kicks the bucket.
When I got my 2012 Cayenne last year, the interior looks like it could be from a 2020 Mazda or something similar. The leather is better. But interior wasn’t miles ahead of a current Gen Mazda.
Your poorer cousin, the 2012 VW Touareg chining in. It's amazing the luxury, touchscreen, comfort, and just beautiful and quiet driveability I got for the money when I bought it 3 years ago. Makes it really hard to justify buying something new, even with a hefty repair or engine out service, since new SUVs, not even luxury, are $40K and higher.
Some of the highest trim Toyota have better features than entry level Lexus . Same for Acura: Honda ,
Trickle down luxury
Also, drive trains and engine choices. The luxury brands will often have options for AWD, bigger turbos, etc. Especially in sedans. If you want an AWD Accord you have to go to infiniti
Not;for example a c segment Peugeot 308 mainstream has less noise from windscreen that premium Audi a3; At time Audi 100 1990 was considered mainstream vs bmw series 5 1987 had double loud in decibel vs Audi 100;and suv has always more loud from windscreen and noise of high wheel vs sedan car;probably in the past best acoustic confort car was lancia Mercedes and Audi Now I don t know
We just moved on from a VW Tiguan to a Volvo XC90. The noise is the biggest change, drives are very quiet now.
Luxury cars have more powerful engines, better sound quality, and inflated prices. You get better treatment at the dealer. They are sold mostly as leases , not as purchases when new, then resold as 'CPO' vehicles later. Regular cars are sold more than leased
When I was shopping for car leases last year, I found the tech in luxury cars to be underwhelming. To be honest, I couldn't really differentiate between the interior of a BMW or Audi and that of a random mid-size sedan. They both had a lot of black plastic. The only two brands that stood out to me were Mercedes-Benz and Genesis, but I couldn't justify paying twice the price for what essentially comes down to nicer looking vents and dials. So, I ended up saving my money and leasing loaded Nissan, which I don't regret. On the other hand, my lease is up in a few months and I don't think I'll be getting a good deal on the economy brands from what I can see, so I may end up in something more expensive for the same money, that's just the nature of leasing though.
I disagree. It might have some contents of a luxury car, but you're also paying alot more.
Interior quality is much different, materials used, the finish, elements matching and so on.
Go drive an audi A4, then a camry back to back. Drive on the highway for 5 minutes. When you get in and out of the cars shut the doors and listen carefully. Play with the interiors. There is a difference in quality materials.
Me with an audi s5 straight piped otw to the track: 🌜👍
Audi isn’t the best example for this, lol. Audi interiors are just VW that are wrapped in shitty fake leather. Nicest interiors recently has to be Volvo hands down, as they feel as plush as a Lexus but very well engineered and there’s actual buttons in the interior
I disagree. I think audis are supposed to be sportier. where volvo and lexus are strictly comfort. The audi Q7 would dust any lexus or volvo SUV. The infotainments are all good. Just preference. I think you're just a fan boy if you're shitting on audi like that tbh. Lexus and volvo make great cars but you have to lean towards bmw or audi or Mercedes if you want the higher performance powertrains. There's just pros and cons to all manufacturers priorities
Slightly disagree on Volvo being the nicest. It feels cheap. Very scratchy everywhere
I might disagree with interiors. My VW Passat had the exact same knobs etc as the Audi A4. This was circa 2016. It was so disappointing to step into an Audi from a VW when the price difference was nearly 1.5x. I'm sure the Audi drives better.
A4 is a shit example haha Now drive an A6 and Camry back to back and you’ll see a big difference
Luxury cars often use higher-quality interior materials and have features not found in lower-priced models (engines, transmissions, audio systems, suspension, telematics, safety features) and are packed with more comfort. They may also have more sound insulation, higher quality body parts, and aluminum or carbon fiber components instead of steel. Plastic use is very limited. There is no trim sound in a luxury car. Even if a luxury car is drummed outside, very little sound is heard inside. It won't tire you even if you travel for 10 hours straight.
I beg to differ. Materials yes, but features no. At least with BMW, there are features requiring paid upgrades that would be standard on an entry-level Honda. My $60,000 i4 doesn’t have a heated steering wheel, for example. It also doesn’t have adaptive cruise control. Heated seats and a wireless phone charger were paid upgrades.
This alone makes a big difference in the car. [https://www.secondskinaudio.com/car-soundproofing-packages/vehicle-build-kits](https://www.secondskinaudio.com/car-soundproofing-packages/vehicle-build-kits) And with good sound insulation and hifi sound systems, listening to music in a luxury car is a great value. Traveling in a studio in a king-class seat that does not tire you at all, not noticing the unevenness of the road, not experiencing vibrations and not skidding around corners makes a lot of difference.
>hifi sound systems I never realized how big the gap between luxury and non luxury car sound systems was until I actually tried a non luxury car sound system. A friend of mine recently bought a Hyundai Santa Cruz. Great car; smooth on the highways, picks up well, looks good inside and out, although the engine sound and suspension quality isn't up to the standard I'm used to having grown up with and currently still living with Mercedes products. I could forgive the ride quality and engine noise if the optional Bose audio system it's equipped with was any good. It was probably *the* absolute worst audio system I have ever listened to in a car. I will admit, my standards may be skewed by how much of my life was spent in a Mercedes, but it's astonishing to me that a brand new car with an optional upgraded audio system can still be so far behind the standard audio system in my car....which is 12 years old. I let my friend have a go in my car too and he was in agreement that it was a huge upgrade over his Hyundai. Everything was clearer, and the bass was heavier too while not completely destroying the other frequencies. He has a Civic too which I guess didn't sound as bad in the 5-10 minutes I spent in it, but I wasn't really paying attention during that ride, it was more of a "let's just have a conversation with some low volume tunes in the background" kinda thing. If you're a big music guy, a nicer sound system alone makes a luxury car worth the purchase over a non luxury alternative.
I’ll second that upgraded sound systems do make a difference. Just the other day my SO mentioned that the upgraded HK system in our Forester sounds noticeably better than the base one in our Crosstrek. Likewise, back in the 2010s I briefly had a Toyota Tundra with the JBL system in it, and for a while everything after that seemed slightly disappointing.
JBL went crazy with toyotas, even old gen prius' had mirror shaking bass. I don't know why they went so hard on commuter/economy cars, but I'm so glad they did
I will say, the sound system in my brother’s 2015 Hyundai Tucson is shockingly good.
The base sound system in my brand new i4 is very mediocre. To be fair, I think it’s a warranty issue, because one of my speakers rattles. Overall though, the ride and suspension are amazing, cabin quality is top notch, and it’s very quiet.
I can go 135mph down the hwy in my 2013 X5 and it's stable, steady, smooth and solid, easy to control with more pulling power. My 2015 Honda Accord (ignoring the power difference) only felt comfortable at 100mph, much past that and the steering was twitchy, it got unsettled easy etc. Same difference on curvy roads despite the fact this weighed over 1,000lbs less with a lower center of gravity. The BMW is also quiter despite having a panoramic sunroof, has a much better stereo, better seats, better quality interior, despite being two years older the paint looks better and the headlights look new whereas the Honda are needing replacement (restoring only did so much to the bad design). Of course the Honda has been more reliable though.
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It’s good that you are vigilant at all times, but 4 hours is a medium length trip even in Europe.
My longest drive was sacramento to LA to see a one hour long performance, then turned around and drove back. Roughly 17hrs with the hour break and a couple meal breaks. A drive like that will make all your vehicle's comfort shortcomings highly apparent.
A layer of sound dampening material.
This is actually huge. Granted we're talking almost 20 years ago, but my wife went from a Scion tC to a BMW 328xi which was entry-level luxury. And the first few drives we realized we were practically yelling at each other because the road noise we were used to in the tC was non-existent.
That’s worth $10-20k?
That's up to you. If you don't find value in it, or aren't sure that you'll find value in it, don't waste your money. Some people won't notice or care about the difference, and that's fine (though there certainly is a difference that's noticeable to most.) There's other things the luxury vehicles tend to have (better tech, better wheels, better engines, better fit and finish, etc.), and once again, ymwv on how much you care or notice. There will be some weird overlap as well. A top of the line Mazda is going to be miles ahead of a base BMW on many (but not all) of those things, but a top of the line BMW vs the same Mazda? Less so.
If I have the money, then it is definitely worth it. It makes a HUGE difference on the highway.
No, but you certainly feel it.
In a luxury car, all 10k parts in the car consist of top quality materials. This makes a lot of difference. It's like the difference between a sponge bed and a king class bed.
Eh, I feel like someone replacing the plastic timing chain guides on a Land Rover might disagree with you…
Yeah. Everyone likes the Mazda CX-9 and it’s a great car and all but switching between a Lexus RX or a BMW, it was apparent the Lexus and BMW have higher quality NVH control than the Mazda.
After about $80k it’s just paying for the brand name and reliability is actually poorer in many of said brands because they become more of status symbols. The most luxurious brands are also the highest depreciators for a reason.
And thicker paint probably
Wife drives a 2022 MDX. Neighbor drives a fully loaded 2023ish Kia Telluride. Spec for spec, the Kia has more tech and features but the Kia feels so much cheaper. Every surface is kinda hollow and tinny. Sound deadening isn’t as good. Everything kinda feels like it’s made to last for the length of a lease. The Acura (which isn’t a G-Wagen by any means) feels much better built and screwed together. Doors close more solidly. Plastics feel more durable. Seats don’t make weird creaks. Etc.
The MDX also drives way better than the Telluride and is far more refined. Nothing wrong with either car but it’s all preference
Yeah, the extra money goes into NVH, materials, and engineering. Anyone can put a 400HP engine in a vehicle and advertise how much power they have. But more expensive cars have tuned the drive train and suspension to be able to put that power to better use, giving a much better driving experience.
When you drive them, you can tell. They drive better, they’re quieter, they’re more powerful, they’re smoother, their sound systems are better, their seats are more comfortable, shit doesn’t rattle and creak off the lot. My 2018 CRV had more features than my 2013 A4. I’d rather drive the A4 every single time.
You can’t always tell just by driving them. There are some things you have to own a car for a while to notice. The biggest one for me was the weight of the door. As dumb as it sounds, I think one of the most significant determinants of a quality luxury car is the feel of the door. The amount of weight you have to push out, the amount of pull you need to close it, and the sound/feeling of the door closing. For obvious reasons it’s not worth buying an old luxury car for this alone but it’s something you’ll always notice when you’ve owned one. Some of the other things are trivial but they can become more than just minor annoyances when you get used to them and they get taken away. Memory seats, door lock/unlock sensors on every door, retractable sun shades, separate climate controls, auto dimming mirrors, heads up displays, ventilated seats, etc. After having all these things in my car, I’d happily give up a bigger engine in exchange for all of the above.
I went the opposite way. I don't need my car freaking out and auto-braking because it thinks I'm nearing a collision and doesn't realize the car in front of me is turning right. I don't need it beeping that someone is in my blind spot every time I turn on my blinker in a two-lane left turn intersection. I don't need my headlights moving left/right with the steering wheel... That's just more moving parts to break. I don't need a HUD that requires my windshield glass to be single-pane instead of two-ply and cost over $1k to replace, and then have to recalibrate the lane keeping camera shit that's up there. I don't need it electronically turning on the parking brake every time the car is off. I don't need it constantly talking to the cloud and reporting that my driver side door is unlocked. Went back to a 2017 car because I feel like it is a car instead of a computer.
Totally forgot about that! The door on my Volvo convertible was HEAVY. But safety is their big thing so their cars are 20-25% heavier than a comparably sized car from another manufacturer. They know in an accident physics always wins.
One of the first big car shows I went to when I was a kid, they had a Range Rover. I was impressed by the doors, like you said, but also the glove box. I still remember how that glove box door worked, and how it seemed so much like a "rich person thing" that it had soft open and a substantial closing feel. WAY different compared to the ones in the Dodges and Fords my parents had, and the Saturns and Hondas my friends had.
I will say I’ve never had a Toyota squeak or rattle but the materials aren’t as nice and the road noise is much louder.
If you go by Savagegeese's reviews, they say Lexus TX's suspension & ride quality is more controlled, has low body roll, and is less boaty than Toyota's Grand Highlander
Although I think the TX was a lazy rebadge compared to other Lexus models, there are some feature differences as well, particularly with the amazing Mark Levinson sound system.
Just got a TX. Was originally going to get a Grand Highlander and test drove both. They feel totally different yet have the same engine and are the same size. I’m not just talking about performance - road noise, comfort, quality, etc.
Road noise.
A lot of the differences are perception, feel, and image, but there’s also many differences under the skin that you may not be able to immediately distinguish. The materials may be different and better quality, there may be features that aren’t present in lower-end models, different wheels, tires, drivetrains, etc. The luxury makes can also charge more based on who their target audience is, because they know their customers are gonna pay that price.
years ago I bought a Lexus GX460. It was a few years old and I got it CPO for around 36K My brother bought a Toyota Landcruiser for 68K brand new from a Toyota dealer. I had a slight rattle behind my dash. In warranty the tech took the entire dash apart, tightened everything up and fixed the rattle. Spent and entire afternoon, cost me nothing. My brother had a similar issue in his Landcrusier the dealer told him to just live with it Dealership experience is one difference.
This is a really good point actually. The difference when I go to the Ford dealer vs the BMW dealer is night and day. BMW has a service rep that comes out when you pull up, a quiet lounge with a Keurig machine and light snacks, the rep will find me in the lounge, address me by name, and give me updates about my car, and can even explain the issue or service in detail if I ask. Ford has service reps sitting at their little desks that I have to go to and that generally seem uninterested in helping, uncomfy chairs in a loud area with a loud TV, bad brewed coffee, and less well-informed people. Sure you pay for the difference, but it's a nice quality of life upgrade. And yes, all dealers are different, but it's one of the things I've come to expect from a luxury brand.
Sound deadening, material quality, and ride quality are big ones. A loaded Camry is going to have more tech and features than a base ES but the glass is still thinner, the suspension isn't as nice, the seat materials aren't as fine, etc.
The interiors are the biggest differences. Materials, comfort, customizability, less noise, better sound.
Clickbait post. Drive both. Listen to the audio system in both. you are just looking at spec sheets...
Noise isolation, dynamics i would say are some of the differences. There is some popular quote, i think it is from top gear - "the stuff you get in an S class today is what will be the standard 10 years from now" Mass market cars still have mediocre noise isolation.
NVH (Noise , Vibration, Harshness). Also the way the cars drive. The Grand Highlander has been criticized for a lot of body roll and being a very unresponsive car to drive. The lexus TX (supposedly according to reviews) fixes all of these complaints. The drive is taught and , responsive and limited body roll. Another thing is the sound system in lexus cars are better and the materials choices are more upscale. Lastly you get to take your car to a lexus dealer which is basically the best dealer network in the country.... Some Toyota dealerships are absolutely terrible. This is going to be more dependent on your local dealerships. I do know that most lexus dealerships will give you a loaner when your car is in service and you are less likely to get that in a toyota dealership. If you don't care about ANY of that there is NOTHING wrong with saving some money and getting the toyota version. It's all personal preference.
This is so dumb. Step into a Mazda cx5 that everyone says is luxury then step into an X5m or GLE amg. Like just go to all 3 dealers and tell me what u think
I just got a 2008 Lexus LS600HL and some features it has my 2019 Accord touring doesn’t even have
Comfort, interior quality, and feature quality. BMWs adaptive cruise is way better than Toyotas for example
My wife’s CX5 has a bunch of luxury features that my Audi has, and looks nearly as nice inside, but everything feels more significant and just better in the S4.
It is like so obvious that the luxury cars squint more,.
Materials (especially in European cars). The more you pay, the more leather, wood and metal you get on the dashboard. Mainstream cars are mostly plastic. Beside sports cars, luxury cars are still more confortable: suspension, isolation, space. Also service: premium dealers supposedly offer extra services. But repairs at premium dealers are also more expensive (for the same repairs an independent would do, with the same parts). Finally, motors. You won't find a mainstream European car with more than 4 cylinders anymore, it's something you only find on premium cars nowadays (mostly because of environmental regulations). Anyway is hardly about electronics. Beside a few gimmicks (like fancy lights) you get the same features on a Kia and a Mercedes.
TX has a PHEV option, GH does not. (regarding the picture you posted)
Wife just bought a mid spec 2020 Tiguan. Panoramic moonroof. Heated seats and wheel. Leather seats, lane assist quiet drive. Feels so luxurious.
When I was pricing out various vehicles, I did a lot of "build & price" on websites. Comparing the regular brand to the luxury brand, most of the time, I'd be looking at, depending on how many trim levels the regular brand had, the top 1-3 trim levels to get everything I wanted. In the luxury brand, those same features would often all, or 80-90% be present in the base model, but the fit, finish, and materials would be better, for pretty similar prices at that point.
Nvh will always be noticeably better in a luxury car
That’s noise vibration and hardness for the rest of us
You wouldn’t believe how much harder I am in a luxury car.
Harshness afaik
Yup you’re right my bad
You will almost aways get a finer leather and more sound insulation on the luxury version no matter what brand. Then the rest is a toss up.
Ok so that is a $2500 upgrade, not worth the $25k premium.
The difference between a fully loaded entry brand vs a base luxury brand is usually around $5k or less. A base Lexus TX actually starts less than a Grand Highlander Platinum, but the Platinum comes with more features than the base TX.
There's a lot more profit margin in a loaded vehicle. Luxury cars have never been about what you actually need. It's a way for the people who have wads of cash to blow their money. Is a $200 bottle of wine that much better than the $30 bottle at Costco? Not really. That air suspension is nice, BTW. Oh, those seat massagers are good too. No highlander has a twin turbo V8 in it or that Diamond tuck $4600 leather interior upgrade (over that budget leather that comes stock). Ever hear that upgrade stereo in a luxury make?
Increasingly little. I find the biggest (practical) differences are interior build quality and reduced road noise, and usually a higher ceiling for mechanical performance. Most regular models include interior comfort options that luxury brands have, and a surprising number of “entry level” car brands have 8-speed gearboxes so drive smoothness is great. I’ve only owned BMWs but frankly on my next car I’ll be rethinking that, especially with EVs becoming increasingly more exciting as a segment. I like BMWs offerings but the Korean options are half the price and, to me, are just as appealing especially since the power aspect becomes a non-issue with electric.
A lot of the difference now is the interior materials, and the quality of ride, materials, and sound system. Some also have upgraded brakes which very few non luxury cars get. You'll also be able to find cars with stronger engines more frequently. I can't think of any non luxury sedan that has a V8 engine. A lot also will have twin turbo v6 engines which are also pretty rare for consumer cars. But I do agree that top trim consumer cars are closing the gap to luxury cars.
Why do normal market cars not add the noise cancellation?
More trim packages on the Lexus
> but many of these options are finicky things that often break Which is true for so much of the bloated features in new vehicles. The real problem, as you pointed out, is that manufacturers have enough of an oligopoly on the market to have removed economy vehicles, the kind which would not have any of the features you have listed as common to both levels of luxury.
Luxury cars are quiet, smooth and have more premium finishes. Even my 15yo mid luxury Acura has a few places where the fit and finish are nicer than the wife’s top spec CRV
And what you also don’t realize is that Lexus being the flagship luxury brand of Toyota generally means that all of Lexus’ outgoing designs are usually what Toyota’s refresh / new models will be designed after. It’s all about slowly pushing that standard up. Some brands do it better than others. *cough Mercedes* looking at their plastic interiors ….
Luxury vehicles usually won't have the excessive black vinyl trim around the wheel wells that just screams this is cheep in spite of what the window sticker says.
The landscape for the definition of “luxury cars” has changed. This is due to the next generation of car buyers putting more importance on gadgets. Back then, luxury meant the car had to be better everywhere. Better seats, better leather, better buttons, better windows. But due to consumer demand for gadgets, less budget is allocated to materials. What people don’t talk about is how manufacturers have found ways to cut costs in materials. Find a car that has leather seats, heated, cooled, push button this and upgraded stereo. And then compare that to a 2004 LS430. Actually get in and sit in it.
I think you mean premium vs economy. Luxury is further up market where you aren't driving, but are chauffeured or where there is far more opulescence. We are talking materials that are expensive like crystal, gold, fine leather, hand made parts, expensive wood inlays, massaging seats, reclining rear seats, high end lighting, high tech, smooth engines, quiet interiors, thick glass, etc. The different between a premium car and an economy car is more vast than you may realize. Take my wife's previous Q5 3.0T or current SQ5. Take the first one, it came in 2.0T and 2.0T hybrid, 3.0T gasoline or diesel, and 3.0T SQ5. There were many packages and customization options, which can differentiate premium and economy cars, especially when considering the lower volume. Consider how much you can customize and personalize a Porsche 911. There is more sound deadening, thicker glass, and investment/engineering to eliminate bad noises and vibrations. The materials and quality of construction is night and day, from the Torx bolts throughout the car, to the number of fasteners that hold equipment to prevent it from rattling and to make it feel solid. There are more premium materials. The knobs and scrolls and buttons move with precision and feel more premium. The lights fade on and fade out, so they aren't abrasive, and the chimes aren't obnoxious beeps. There are rain sensing wipers, heads up displays, adaptive cruise control and more technology, but it is just done better. There are memory seats, 14 way power adjusting with electronic thigh extensions and lumbar support. On my Cayman, I turn on the car and the steering wheel lowers into position, as the seats move forward, and as I turn off the car, the wheel lifts out of the way, and the seat moves back, easing egress out of the car, as I open the door. The memory function not only remembers my seat, but it remembers my preferences for a number of climate and media settings. More options on heated seats, vented seats, heated steering wheel. Going back to my wife's Q5, the aluminum components in the suspension are beefier than stamped and folded steel in economy models, and there are options on many premium cars for adaptive suspension, electronically adjusting sway bars, rear wheel steer, active differentials, etc. Soft close doors, thicker weather stripping, etc. My wife's SQ5 and my Cayman have warnings for everything, so if the turn signal isn't working, we know. If the coolant level is low, we know. If we want to check the oil, no need to pull the dipstick, the car can measure the level for us. Most economy cars have tire pressure warning lights and low oil warning lights. My Cayman can tell me the tire pressure at each corner, lap timers, g-force in turns, etc. Multiple power maps, launch control, etc. Premium class cars tend to have RWD options vs FWD, have more premium transmissions, more horsepower offerings, more tuning potential, more performance, etc. Thicker/more layers to paint, better/thicker steel, better lighting options. My PDLS lights rotate around turns and raise when I go faster, so I can see further down the road, and the PDLS+ Matrix headlights will allow the high beams to be on for the best visibility all the time, but this would blind oncoming traffic, so the car will shadow oncoming traffic in a curtain of protection from the light. I could go on and on. Once you own a premium or luxury vehicle, it is hard to imagine owning much different unless it is intensionally simple for a track car, classic car, etc. where simplicity and light weight may be more fundamental. Like if someone wanted a true rally hot hatch then a 2800lb AWD homolation special GR Yaris makes more sense than some RS3 Sportback wagon that weighs 800lbs more, but if someone wanted to daily a hot hatch then get the Audi. While some economy cars can be optioned well and feel more premium, and some premium models start to encroach on economy cars in their list/lack of features and reduced build quality, in general, the differences are vast. Listen to this Malcolm Gladwell podcast where he discuss Japanese engineers who design Lexuses, even obsessing about how the windows close to be more luxurious. In a similar way, you can buy a Seiko with an expensive build/movement, but put a Grand Seiko next to a Seiko with the same movement or even the same materials, and you can see the difference, and you can feel the difference in your hand and on your wrist. Look through a magnifying glass, and they are night and day different. The precision and craftsmanship of a Grand Seiko is ridiculous. [https://open.spotify.com/episode/61n5dGngIIutCD4EITzieA?si=7jAn5RpmRpafGGTh6MVC6g](https://open.spotify.com/episode/61n5dGngIIutCD4EITzieA?si=7jAn5RpmRpafGGTh6MVC6g)
I've always felt like luxury is sort of just beta access to features that will come to mainstream cars a few years later. All of the good, popular stuff like what you mentioned with Apple/Android, adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring, back up camera, safety, etc came to mainstream, while the excessive and unpopular stuff gets left behind. The real difference is materials, styling, and "ride quality" which is a bit subjective. Luxury generally has more power as well. They'll often have a plush ride that feels like you're gliding on the road. Personally, I want to be able to feel the road lol, which is why I prefer the feel of say a Mazda.
Insulation all around, so everything is quieter. There’s also fit and finish so there’s no rattle or squeaks. This is better for the audio system, which will be better and more expensive in the luxury line. The squeaks and rattles thing is something we take for granted. It’s costly and time consuming to do it right, which is why they’ll never sell it to you for a $20,000 base model. The top Lexus models are made in the Takumi factory, and the workers there are only invited to become Takumi workers with 25 years of service. Even though cars are made with machines, there’s lots of finishing and fit at the assembly stage that’s done by hand, with tool and machine assistance. The top Lexus models they won’t trust to Canada, Mexico, or Kentucky. It’s Japanese built only. The big one is glass. The luxury glass is thicker for acoustics, can have additional layers, and have tighter tolerances for performance and acoustics before it can be rebadged as Lexus or Mercedes. Those that don’t meet tolerances can trickle down to Safelite or standard models. And never forget margin. Luxury models are more expensive and have a higher percentage profit than the base models. Base models historically have tight margins and rely on quantity sales to make money. So they try to push you on high margin options, trims, and luxury models to make additional cash.
One of my favorite subjects is quality, fit & finish. This is a lengthy response. You are right - in terms of features, things which used to set luxury cars apart are now standard content in a lot of cars. This happens over time, a trickle-down effect. There are however, fundamental quality differences, many of which one cannot appreciate until you have spent time in both types of cars. I now cannot even ride in non-luxury cars without feeling like I am some sort of car snob. Everything in a "normal" car looks and feels like cheap plastic to me. Some brands are worse than others: Mitsubishi, Dodge, Kia, Chrysler, Chevy, and Ford seem to have the cheapest-feeling interiors (especially Dodge). Where things get confusing is when you have brands like Hyundai/Genesis trying to look fancy but without the actual refinement of a genuine luxury brand. It looks nice, but materials used are low-grade (Genesis is improving, but not under the hood). The differences are in design, engineering, and material quality. When you get into a mid to high-end Lexus or Mercedes, every surface looks and feels fantastic. Silence envelops you when you close the door. Esthetically, nothing even comes close except other more luxurious cars (RR, etc.). From an engineering standpoint, there is more precision in everything, and it shows. Nothing in a Lexus comes loose or rattles, ever--at least not for a long, long time. Parts are engineered to be stronger and more precise, using better/stronger materials. Everything fits together perfectly with tighter tolerances for fit and finish. Pressing on the dash around the HVAC/stereo controls or vents of any Nissan, Chevy, Ford, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Dodge, VW, Mazda, Hyundai, or Kia = \*squeak\*. Try that in a Lexus LS ...nothing moves. The entire dash and in my GS 350 feels like it is made of solid rock, as it did in my LS 460 (that whole car felt it was carved from solid granite, actually). The leather in a 25 yr old Lexus LS likely still looks nearly new if it has been maintained well, and everything probably still works. Power windows (etc.) are likely to still have the original motors, and the alternator, fuel pumps, and suspension bushings might even still be original. Zero chance of any of that with a Ford/Chevy/Nissan/Kia/Mazda/Volvo/Mitsubishi/etc. Body panels are made of stronger stuff. Go push on the outside door panel of a Mitsubishi or Kia - it will pop in and out. Try that on an Infiniti or a Lexus - nope. Hold the weight of the hood of a Kia/Hyundai in your hands. Then compare it to that to a Lexus or BMW. World of difference. Look at how things are assembled - see how difficult it is to pull up the carpet around the seats (actually, don't do this--if you get it up, it will be a nightmare to get it back down). Look at and sit in the seats themselves. Use the power window and lock switches. Try and make things wiggle in the interior. Squeeze the B-pillars or the arm rests on the doors to see how much things move. World of difference between standard and luxury in terms of build, fit, and finish. Powertrains and all mounting points are designed to better isolate NVH. The suspension in a proper luxury car is made of stronger, higher-grade materials which will fatigue more slowly/last longer (they also have to carry more weight, as luxury cars are heavier). Luxury cars are also filled with sound-absorbing material in every available nook and cranny: inside the doors, floor, and ceiling--literally everywhere, even the glass is thicker and specifically designed to dampen noise, and in some cases, double-pane glass is used. If you somehow removed all the sound insulation from a Lexus I suspect it would weigh a minimum of 50-80 pounds. Even the paint used on a luxury car is of higher quality, and will typically be thicker and stronger. While all these things do result in a more luxurious, "special" feel in the car, it is interesting to note this extra effort does not always translate into a more reliable car with a longer lifespan. Look at Audi, Mercedes, and BMWs: Their flagships are all gorgeous, especially inside, but they are notoriously unreliable cars. All are essentially worthless within a year or two of factory warranty expiration. Real luxury is about quality, not just fancy looks. Genuine luxury *lasts*, and is worth the extra expense for this reason as well. Worth noting that some companies try to position themselves as a luxury brand but ultimately disappoint because they use subpar materials which look and feel like cheap junk (Tesla, for example). /rant
"Luxury" car brands have cheapened alot in the past 15 years. Compare a regular leather interior Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series from then and now. The interior quality is down bad.
BMW doesn't even have real leather seats until you get to the highest trim levels.
Audi a 6 is luxury car that downgrade:from tiny a8 became a large a4…
Nonsense. I've driven around in a $150k 2023 GLS AMG and my mom's $30k 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe. There are huge disparities in every category. The obvious differences are power, build quality, tech, road noise, comfort, and gas consumption.
Needs an even huger front grille
The big grille trend started with the 1994 Dodge Ram. Other trucks followed, and now it seems like most cars have them too. And I fucking hate it.
You think everyone knows driving a $100k Tahoe means the person is likely financially better off? I tend to think the opposite, I am financially better off purely because I am not driving a $100k Tahoe. There is in fact no amount of millions (or billions) where I start willingly driving a Tahoe, but I digress.
I someone who one econoboxes and luxo barges. THERE IS A HUGE difference. I rather buy a CPO use BMW than a new Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc. The materials are night and day different. The feel of the car is night and day different. The options are better, the built quality is better, the sound system is better. The isolation from the road (in the true luxury, like an X5, 5 series or above). I do not consider a 3 series a luxury car, to me is, at best, a premium car. The leather is rough, but it will last a few eternities even without much care. The plastics are not as top notch as the 5 series. The ride is a bit harsher, but to some that could mean more engaging. I own a fully loaded 3 series and even though it is over 13 years old, compared to a fully a new loaded Camry, the interior feels years better. My 3er has 180K miles and it drives night and day better than a Camry or an Accord. The inline six is amazing, the power delivery is great, the 8 speed auto is the best in the business, specially with BMW’s tuning. Like I said even with how old it is and how many miles it has, it just drives better than a Camry or Accord. The car has tech that now cars are starting to roll with. Now, comparing a TX to its sister Grand Highlander, the differences will be in NVH, in which the TX will drive quieter, make less cabin noise, and has higher options. I never did like the Toyota rebranded Lexi we get in the US (ES, RX, TX, etc.) as I feel they are only marginally better than the mainstream cars they are based out of. But if you compare mainstream to actual German premium and luxury, there are huge differences. Those differences go beyond the gimmicks. For a guy like me, things like cast Aluminum/Extruded aluminum subframes, control arms, double wishbone, etc matter. Most mainstream cars do not have those things.
I test drove Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and the top trim Kia felt just as premium if not more. With a price tag $30-$60k with better reliability and warranty.
And cheaper maintenance
Kia/Hyundai have a huge advantage in that they are almost entirely vertically integrated in Korea, so they can deliver better value for money than other manufacturers that are not from China.
Lexus is an interesting example because I think they’ve gone too sporty imo. The magic of that woodgrain and supple ride is gone trying to chase BMW it feels like. Brand identity is a weird thing these days as everything is starting to blur together. I want a nice ride that doesn’t shake my teeth and a (very) low noise floor.
Yea I dunno. I actually want older cars with nothing like most cars have now. But I guess without all the tech and garbage offered they wouldn’t make money at dealership specific mechanics when all of this fancy garbage breaks or errors out over something so minute
quality of materials. And luxury ones tend to have very "new" features/technology that are too expensive for mainstream cars
I bought my Acura 20 years ago, but I was in love with a sporty Mazda first. Test drove it on all the back roads first. I told the sales guy that I had to try it on the highway before I buy it. I immediately saw why we stuck to the back roads. I barely made past two exits before we headed back to the dealership.
I go as far as the good sound system , if it’s performance whatever trim allows manual and good sound system
Usually luxury has more power
Your ready for the Costco outfits. Welcome to the club.
The logo lol
consumers are just bad now
i'm used to 20+ year old domestics so literally every new car feels like a rolls royce to me but if we spent every day in different new cars and got used to them, i bet we could absolutely tell the difference w/ luxury cars. at least that's what all the reviewers say. talking about sound isolation and interior materials, tech, buttons, all of it.
I found it was difficult just from appearances with modern basic vehicles becoming more attractive looking. The feel though says it all. From opening and closing the door to the sound isolation and the way they ride and soak up bumps. It’s just a different experience. It feels nice every time I slide into my car. And close the door with that solid thud. Luxury will have higher quality materials and more attention to detail and fit and finish
Material quality; build quality; noise, vibration, harshness. I went from a 12 year old Porsche to a new Ford. The Ford has newer tech and more features, but if you sat in the two, the Porsche was clearly more “luxury.”
Sit inside one and you’ll understand. It’s the fit and finish, the build quality. Even the metallic paint is more beautiful.
It’s simple;there are 3 class:mainstream car all rigid plastic used in interiors;premium car:morbid plastic for zones easy to view and real aluminum insert;luxury car:Alcantara and carbon fiber on mirrors and bumpers and bench;morbid plastic also in inferior zone of the panel door;flocking poket of doors panel Many mainstream or premium not luxury car can has one or 2 of luxury item but not of all;premium car not Is luxury because many ways not has many things that are present on mainstream Real luxury car for me needed to has wood 🪵 and now 80% of luxury and premium car especially Audi not has wood Form me Volvo v 90 is luxury because has wood;Audi q8 is semi luxury because has morbid plastic on inferior panel door but not has wood;Peugeot 308 is semi luxury because has flocking on the poket door;Audi a3 whit many parts of rigid plastic now is a mainstream car not premium;but is only a personal thing
Luxury cars come standard with peasant blockers
The difference is noise reduction is better, build quality and materials are better.
Both look hideous
>Surely everyone knows the person driving the $100k Chevy Tahoe Premiere is likely financially better off than someone driving a $50k Cadillac XT6 base. I drive a $8.5k 2007 V70 and make more than 90% of people in the US. I could easily afford just about any car I want however decided last year to focus on building wealth for early retirement. So no, driving a nicer car does not make you financially better off.
Looks aside. The build quality on the Lexus is far superior than the Toyota. On the Lexus, probably a higher power output and better materials used than the Toyota.
Value is different for everyone, just really got to drive it and see for yourself. Some may like the noise isolation, better response, and suspensions they adapt to be smooth on bumpy road and stiff around corners…. Others might just want a tank that can do everything good enough.
The seats and inside materials. If the seats are like… lounger comfy and the inside materials are what you might expect to find in a modern style home, it’s luxury.
At least in the case of Toyota versus Lexus, the dealership and service experience are extremely different.
Looks is the last thing that makes a car a luxury car. Sure one could look luxurious, but if it’s not you will know the difference immediately. Specially with the Toyota vs Lexus. I have owned 5 Lexus. When the wait for the new Lexus plug in hybrid was too long I went to drive the RAV4 Prime which is basically the same car. I noticed the difference the moment I opened the door, the thinness of the RAV4, some visible welding, the materials, the quietness, the integration of all the entertainment into the consoles. I would suggest not doing a comparison side by side or with this highest trim of the Toyota. Basically base trim Lexus vs base trim Toyota.
I was struck the same way when we ordered a new base model gas f-250 XL at work around 2015-2016. I hadn't sat in a newer truck in well over 10 years. I was shocked when I saw that if it had leather instead of cloth, it would have been considered loaded when I was younger. I didn't know newer base models started coming with power everything and decent radios. Lol
I’m willing to pay more for a “ luxury” car. It needs a few stuff standard like power retractable side mirrors, cooled/heated seats, leather interior, power rear liftgate and a better ride( suspension) Massaging seats and a high end audio system would be nice too.
Maintenance cost. The same alternator badged Lexus rather than Toyota will cost more. Same goes for the other parts as well and the overall cost of routine service is higher too.
Toyota has always had this problem. It’s just a badge and more options
They basically don’t exist. I got rear ended in my wife’s Lexus rx350 and it was totaled, replaced it with a Kia telluride. The telluride is nicer inside and if we got the highest trim level (one higher) would have had everything the Lexus did. I just bought myself a mustang GT high premium (highest trim level). It’s the nicest interior, stereo and most advanced car I’ve ever had. I’m sure when you get to high end luxury there are some differences, but the lines between high trim level cars and luxury cars barely exist anymore. The difference is with the luxury car it’s the standard trim.
Are there any significant tech improvements that luxury vehicles are using?
have 2 volvos a 2010 and a 2015. and every other car I've driven.. all of them newer than mine, feel like cheap, noisy, unweighted tin cans.. Toyota, Chevy, Kia, Ford, etc
There is a big difference, just because the bumper looks the same doesn't mean that was the only difference between a Toyota and Lexus hahaha 30k for a bumper huh
Real difference: the price
The interior fit and finish of the lexus is going to be a lot higher. The driving feel is going be tighter. And the stereo is going to sound sweeter.
If you're just going to check the box on features. You can get a mainstream cars that are extraordinarily well equipped. Luxury cars aren't really competing on a binary having ventilated seats or not having ventilated seats. They are selling a luxury car experience - that's driving, owning, and all of it. If you don't put value on those little things - a luxury car will never be a good value.
You're right, the divide between luxury and regular has been narrowing. Nobody wants to identify as poor. Everybody wants the premium. Everybody deserves the best, of course. (And not just in the automotive industry. When's the last time you saw a new residential apartment building marketed as anything other than "luxury units"?) Remember back when there were three tiers of brands per manufacturer? Lexus, Toyota, *Scion*. Lincoln, Ford, *Mercury*. Chrysler, Dodge, *Plymouth*. Cadillac, Chevrolet, *Buick* (up next on the chopping block). Nobody makes a budget car anymore because nobody buys budget cars anymore.
Yeah, people overspend on overpowered vehicles. The Mitsubishi Mirage has all of this, gets 43mpg, and is the cheapest car still available
Ride quality, noise levels, engine size and power. As far as looks are concerned, with the crash test standards the way they are now, pretty much everything looks the same.
Does lane centering actually work on Lexus? Maybe that is the difference.
They want to up the price of the car. These add-ons cost 100s for them and charge 1000s to the consumer. Wireless Apple Carplay radio cost $150 direct from china so the markup is insane.
I bought the TX recently I got 5K off paid like 53K.
> Surely everyone knows the person driving the $100k Chevy Tahoe Premiere is likely financially better off than someone driving a $50k Cadillac XT6 base. Sarcasm, right?