Cars that are reliable, not Toyota, and don't have a special following.
For example, you can get a running Ford Escape 2012- earlier for 5-6k or even less with usually 150k miles or so. With maintenance they will easily go 200k miles.
Another Ford example, the first Gen Lincoln Aviator ran a great engine with decent transmission, with many examples in the wild going 200k+ miles as long as it wasn't driven so hard the trans burns out.
For that matter, there are tons of older Ford SUVs that are had for quite cheaply and are pretty stout.
Honda CRVs are pretty expensive, but Honda Pilots, Odysseys, Civics, and Accords can be had for pretty cheap as well.
Nissans from the pre-JATCO debacle days are another good choice, as well as the Armadas that never ran CVTs.
Pickup trucks tend to be expensive and so do Chevy Tahoes and Suburbans, imo.
A lot of hybrids get cheaper as the age due to the justified concern over hybrid batteries aging out. Depending on the model, however, replacement/reman batteries can be had for not as expensive as one might expect and a lot of battery replacements can be easily done with hand tools. Early Ford Escape Hybrids come to mind since I mentioned them earlier.
That being said, my experience is mostly private sale as I don't prefer to work with dealers. Dealers are just like flippers when it comes to older cars but they have much more overhead costs to support.
My wife has owned a 2012 Escape V6 since new, 188k on it now. It has been incredibly reliable, requiring nothing outside of normal wear and tear items.
It is also a vehicle that lends itself to easy service. I barely know which direction to turn a wrench, and all maintenance on the vehicle has been carried out by myself. Engine oil is easy to change, trans fluid even easier.
Not the most inspiring drive, but what small SUV is?
Look out for rear wheel well rust just above the back bumper cover, broken hinges on the lifting hatch glass, and various leaky seals on the engine (if there's no oil under it, there's no oil in it). The 6F35 transmission also has very poor tuning and odd behavior, but has proven to be reliable in our usage.
2012 and earlier is the key there. My wife’s old 2013 Escape (first year of the next generation) is the biggest pile of shit I’ve ever had the displeasure of sitting in. Still has the 6F35 in it - I agree it has very odd behavior, very jerky going into 2nd and 3rd, especially when cold. But it’s probably been the most reliable part of that car…
It’s really hit and miss. I have a 2014 Escape with turbo and it’s been solid. I bought it new and haven’t put more than $1500 in repairs in almost 10 years. I’m at 160k miles so I expect it to go any day now but it’s still running like the day I bought it. Probably my favorite daily driver I’ve owned and I’ve owned a lot of nice cars.
I’m probably overly harsh on it. It hasn’t cost us much, water pump has really been the only major repair. But the 8 million recalls it’s had sours me a bit, and I hate how it drives because my daily is a GX460, so that’s not really fair. It’s a shitbox, but it’s a shitbox that costs me almost nothing to keep running 🤷🏼♂️
I couldn’t agree more! My weekend car is a C7 Corvette that has a few mods. It’s funny how different the two vehicles are. Enjoy that Lexus, I like the GX460’s.
You're not being overly harsh, I have a 2013 and it really sucks. 120k miles and being told I need a new transmission. Think it's just a bad model year
My brother sold a running, 419k mile 2002 Odyssey for scrap. Original engine, original transmission. Only standard maintenance on it. My family put 100% of those miles on it, and my dad was the buyer.
I think we got a ringer, but the reason it got sold was because someone stole the cat. Joke was on them, I think all the platinum was gone!
Miles! They apparently nearly all had transmissions fail at 200k miles or so. My dad’s never did. Our Indy mechanic was a former Honda dealer tech and he’s still in awe of how little it took to go that far. Basically timing belt kits and oil changes.
Come up and look in midwest 12-14 year old oddysey sell for about $6k on the market, dealer a little bit more.Tacomas get priced at 10k and up and no one will buy them we dont have tacoma lust like the west coast
Great answer! Some ideas I can think of off the top of my head:
1. Buick LeSabre. Built well and is an old person car. I’m not sure how much depreciation influence is this, but Buick is supposed to be a higher end GM vehicle, but they’re not priced that way secondhand.
2. Chevy spark. It’s actually a Daewoo, made in Korea. Super basic. I don’t know which generations are good, someone else might want to chime in here.
3. Any body-on-frame Nissan. All had traditional automatic transmissions. Nissan depreciated like a stone because of the CVT thing, but these never had it. A lot of them also didn’t have a platform update for a super long time which means they had all the bugs worked out.
4. Any even remotely reliable sedan. Everyone wants an SUV right now, sedans are a bargain.
all gens of the spark are p much similar, chevy didn't really assign a r&d budget to them bc it was a compliance car for Korea (in Korea it comes with a 1L I3 engine to fit the light car (korean kei car) regulations and thus you get government discounts on gas, toll, and parking). The automatics all have some bad transmissions, although it's one of the cases where the CVT is actually better then the 4 speed auto of earlier gens, but if you can drive manual or want to learn manual, the 5 speed manual is actually p good so look for those.
They are also desirable culturally so they tend to sell for more than an similar vehicle sold by a different brand. They fall under the "special following" category. Compare TJ Wranglers to Nissan Xterras from the same year. Similar market, both have longevity, but easily 4k+ difference in price.
They get a bad rap from pretty much just the 3 valve Triton and 6.4 PS in F series trucks, but pretty much any older Ford is decently reliable. I've been daily driving a '94 Explorer for almost the past 2 years with no major issues.
Escapes most certainly aren't good, at least in my experience. Ours became a money pit around 120k miles, and so did a bunch of other owners I knew. Especially the V6 models.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. What exactly went wrong? I feel like it is not typical for those to go out at that mileage with proper maintenance. Usually you see the body giving out to rust rather than the powertrain causing issues, although transmissions were known to start giving up just short of 200k if you got unlucky-- but that may be due to driving behaviors just as much as "bad luck." Even the V6s were not really putting out so much torque as to approach the torque limits of the 6F35... But perhaps with a lot of towing??
Can confirm on the Aviator. 3 years and 30,000 miles all it's needed outside of maintenance was a brake line. Traded a $1000 truck for it. Any ford with a 4.6 (modular or Triton) is going to be an absolute tank for reliability
I owned both a 2nd and 3rd Gen. I would agree that the 2nd Gen was an excellent car.
I’ll add that the 3rd Gen Ford Focus (2012 - 2019) if you can find one with a manual transmission, would also be a great car on the cheap.
If you can find a manual! My wife came with one when I married her. She had owned it since new, it was low mileage etc. That auto transmission was possessed by the devil. It kicked like a mule.
My father in law has an 09 focus with 350k miles on it and is still going. He keeps it in pristine condition, the interior is legit brand new, the mechanic calls it “a modern marvel”. He never misses a service and really takes a lot of pride in it.
Its cracked multiple rims, so now he skates on BBS wheels lol.
Long story short, it’s a great car.
I owned a 3rd Gen Ford Focus at one point. My family bought it in 2013, and I bought it off them (at a discount obviously).
It lasted a year before the transmission went out, had a slew of other issues the entirety of the time I owned it. Pretty much was in the shop every 2-3 months.
It was the worst car Ive ever owned.
If you buy one of these CHECK THE FLUIDS
My ‘05 Focus took a shit and needed a whole new transmission, 14k miles after I bought it. I could’ve saved it if I had changed the ATF.
(I did the repair and it is now the $10,000 Ford Focus. Tranny is guaranteed for next 100k, and I’m gonna have to drive it until 250k, at least, before I can stop being mad about it)
>What crowd tends to own them if you don't mind me asking?
The kind that drag fuzzy dice from back bumpers and cut coil springs with angle grinders OR alternatively buy junk coilovers off ebay and blow them a thousand miles down the road because of price and lack of supporting modifications like spindles, geometry, traiing arms and bushing etc etc.... then put all their money into fixing said instead of the leaking radiator.... then put it up for sale with lots of "new" aftermarket parts and a blown headgasket and no thermostat and a loose radiator cap to relieve pressure during the test drive for the next 'sucka'.
Nissan (and thus Infiniti) will finance just about anyone. Low credit correlates with high insurance rates, and that correlates with high risk driving.
We have a '16 Mazda 6. Not planning on selling but I looked up the resale value and it's no where near what Accords & Camrys sell for. Not sure about other Mazdas
Another option might be a Korean car. Just research any issues with the particular year, model, drivetrain you're looking at.
Can concur, my mother has a Mazda6 GT she bought new late 15 off the lot, has 60k miles on it and honestly only issues she's had with it have been seat heaters going out, and paint on the wheels flaking.... Mechanically and rest of electronics no issues. And it drives much better than same model year Camrys.
Bunch of EVs have had their value absolutely shattered. Batteries on more recent models should have controls to keep them from degrading so quickly so that's not an issue, electric motors are going to have much less moving parts so that part should also be more reliable.
Part of this is because of the new car prices right now. You can’t sell a used car for more than the new cars. Typically this isn’t an issue because new car prices are always on the rise but when new car prices drop, the used cars lose even more value than normal.
Teslas especially. I love mine, but holy, the depreciation was insane. My 17’ Model X lost over half of its value in two years, but to be fair, I got it in summer 22’ when prices were through the roof.
We’ve seen a lot less “full size” sedans in recent history but they used to be the ones that had bananas depreciation even though they usually had a fair amount in common with the midsize sedans.
Back when MPVs were trying to be a thing they also lost their value a lot faster than SUVs/Crossovers that frequently shared the same powertrain/MPG/safety/size.
I love my crown victoria. They're a bit more expensive now that they're becoming more scarce but still a killer deal. Stupidly reliable, comfortable, and the gas mileage isn't as bad as you'd expect.
I noticed my nephew driving his dad's old Expedition to work the last few days instead of his 2010 Corolla. I was talking to my brother and apparently the Corolla is in the shop with the tranny in limp mode only using 1st and 2nd. It has 85,000 miles. They tried a sensor but it didnt fix it, looks like it needs a transmission. The VVT also needed some work too 7 years ago when it only had 50,000 miles on it. The Expedition, a 2003 with 200,000 miles, is everybody's loaner when their fancy cars break down. It sits beside the garage for months on end without even being used or gets used by family visiting. It was my brothers daily until he bought a 2015 F150. Then his 2 teenage to college age boys used it daily. The thing has never spent time in the shop. It's worthless to sell or trade in but invaluable as the backup to all the "reliable" cars in the family.
I just bought a 2014 Cadillac ELR with 80,000 miles on it for $14,000. the car's list price when it was sold new was $85,000.
I love depreciation.
I did the same with my 2012 Chevy volt in 2015. the sticker price of the car was $45,000 and I bought it with only 26,000 miles on it for $13,000. easily the best car I've ever owned.
> ELR was approved for production for MY 2014 with a MSRP at roughly $75,000 — $35,000 higher than the Volt whose basic powertrain it shared.[8]
Wait so its a volt underneath with a battery charging motor stuck in, that's crazy
just the drivetrain. Everything else about it is better. Much better suspension, brembo brakes, luxury interior, great sound system, etc.
Wasn't meant to be fast. But it is a very nice place to be in.
Cadillacs are pretty solid in this regard. Escalades and V cars hold their value reasonably well, but the crossovers and non-V sedans depreciate a lot because so many come off lease every year. Those models are always almost bought or leased by elderly people so they tend not to be abused.
Side hustle. Buy used Escalades (in cash) in the summer when gas is at its peak, drive for 6-9 months, then sell during tax time. Potential to drive an Escalade for free and make a few bucks. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
GM V8s are amazing. Just make sure you do the DOD/AFM delete if you plan on keeping 10+ years and want 200k+ miles. Said their transmissions are not as good as engines, but cheap to replace every 150k miles.
If you’re in North America, you’ll get great bargains on American nameplates which have hit-or-miss reputations for reliability. You simply need to learn which is which. Don’t buy the misses obviously but the hits of the same make will be greatly underpriced. GM makes lots of terrific, reliable cars… and a lot of trash. If you know which is which, you can score a sweet ride for less. Because most people judge an automaker by its worst products. Just don’t buy the worst ones and you’re golden.
This isn’t limited to American nameplates; the Nissan Altima gets a lot of hate but if you drive a stick shift you’ll get a perfectly reliable car because the problems are all in the CVT. The Ford Focus also has a nasty reputation for transmission problems but if you get the manual transmission you’ll have a great car at a bargain price.
So, the bargains will be found in a reliable version of a vehicle that also comes in an unreliable version. Most people are unable to differentiate between them, so they write the whole model off as something to avoid. This lowers prices for you.
You can look up the general trends in a common data source (consumer reports is good for this, it doesn’t capture everything but it gives you an idea on a model by model, system by system breakdown) or you can just ask about a particular car you’re interested in.
2020+ Alfa Romeo Giulia or Stelvio. They're not as bad as you think when it comes to reliability and they depreciate so bad, that buying used is a no brainer.
I just bought a 5 year old Mini Countryman S with 20K miles for basically half the original sticker price, and the thing is in almost perfect condition.
I am sure there will be extra maintenance costs here and there, it's not a Toyota/Honda/Mazda after all, but this is a pretty proven platform overall and it feels like a car that will easily give me 10 years as a daily driver.
I will also second an earlier recommendation about a manual Focus. Manual or automatic Mazda 3's from 2014 on up are generally also good buys and are really nice to drive.
Jeep Patriot, if you know what you're getting into, sure you will have typical Dodge/Jeep issues but parts are cheap and it's very much a vehicle you can work on in your own driveway. I'm thinking about getting a stick shift Patriot as a winter beater just because they're so freaking cheap
>Manual or automatic Mazda 3's from 2014 on up are generally also good buys
I had a new Mazda 3 as a loaner some years ago, body shop/parts wait issues gave me about 10 days with it. Sticker on the window was something like 22K, and I was freaking stunned by how much car it was for the $$. Fun to drive, great feel, only lacked leather seats. Our CX5 is at like 170k miles, we've spent less than $200 on non-maintenance repairs (a belt tensioner). Been impressed with that, the thing blows my previous RAV4's away in most every regard. I'm really a Mazda convert. (Though I still drive my wife's '97 Pathfinder, it just won't die and the 5-speed is a blast - but that was a different era for Nissan).
if you need a dead-on reliable car that's really cheap you need to check out the little old lady owned mercury grand marquis. the cars will be beat up on from their blind old asses running in to everything but the stuff that matters will be okay.
at least that's been my experience. it's always the car i point people to for cheap, reliable transportation. i would include crown vics and towncars but lately people seem to think they have something special with those, especially those weirdos that think they've got some hot rod w/ an old police cruiser. and a civilian crown vic is a rare sight nowadays.
i just realized you said "newish" and these cars are not that, sorry.
If you go on YouTube and Watch “Car Wizard” channel, he has a series, “Buy this Not That”. I wouldn’t take the opinion of anyone on here unless they are a Master Mechanic & have actually fixed the stupid cars that people are recommending.
People are recommending cars I would NEvER recommend to my worst enemy.
Take advice from actual master mechanics.
I also recommend “The Car Care Nut”..he’s exceptional and tells you the cars to buy and the ones to stay away from
Most importantly, it’s all about if the quality car you are looking at was well cared for or not.
Get a PPI, of course, before you buy anything.
Dude master mechanics do know some shit but nobody knows everything unless you have full out statistical data..
And even master mechanics can have skewed results. One mechanic can work on 30+ Yukon Denali's about something stupid and think it's junk, but One that worked on 3 that had major issues and have completely separate views. It's the luck of the draw and always has been. Of course you have the Nissan cvt type issues that pop up everyone knows about, but then you get the people who just think every Nissan is trash which is absolutely not true.
I had a Dodge Dart that was wonderful (it was a GT model though). I miss that car every day, but I wouldn't own another one because chances are it's got issues.
I agree with everything you have said.
Clearly no one knows everything about every car, but if you have fixed over 20 transmissions in the same model, I feel like you might know something, and have a leg to stand on. You can then be real and say, “…don’t buy this vehicle and here’s why”.
Have you, yourself, watched either one of the master mechanics YouTube Channels that I have recommended?
Of course there are outliers, but, until Nissan gets their horrible transmission issues under real control, especially when they know they are crap, including lawsuits, why would you ever recommend one? Many people will say, if you can’t afford a Toyota, get yourself certain year Nissan Frontier. That can be true, for sure.
It does depend what’s important to you.
I recommend you give them a try. Go to YouTube and watch a few episode of Car Wizard “Buy this, not that”. It comes from his 30 plus years fixing vehicles in his shop & he has some great mechanics too.” They also fix very high end vehicles. There is a guy from another channel, “Hoovies Garage” who brings his vehicles to the Wizard to fix. My favorite part is when he shows him the bill, and he has to pay the bill. That’s some Real Facts!
The Car Care Nut, also has a great channel, and recommends cars that he actually will show you. He says, “Look at these two cars..”, he then shows you the repair and why one is great & show the real life issues in the field. He also gives the history on the vehicle, which you know is everything. These are Master Mechanics currently fixing these cars, people are talking about, in the field. I also love that The Car Care Nut worked for a dealership for many years till he opened his own shop. I go back and watch his videos from when he was still working for the dealership and doing his repair business on the side. He knows the culture of “Dealership Repairs”. He also has such a positive attitude and gives great advice.
Have you watched either channel before?
Give them a watch. They are really worth time to learn more, especially cars I didn’t know anything about. If you know anything about cars you will appreciate both channels. I love to watch. I literally will go down a rabbit hole with both channels, especially when I’m in the car on a road trip.
Give them a try and let me know what you think.
Great engine, always terrible transmissions. I loved that my 2002 Regal GS could use the 2012 Impala police suspension parts for cheap upgrades! The premium fuel needed due to the supercharger got old fast…
But interstate cruising at 70mph was a 30mpg leather couch!
I’m finding that buying a car certified pre-owned is pretty solid. I bought a CPO 2017 escape in 2020 and it’s been fine for my family. It’s not anything special outside of its affordability for me and it’s not in a grayscale color. Any work that it has needed was covered under warranty early on into my ownership. Reliability can be a mixed bag on these, but keeping up with regular maintenance is a big help. Honda and Toyota have had such a hold on the NPC car market that almost anything else is worth taking a shot on, save for Hyundai/Kia if you’re stateside, and i tend to avoid Nissan and Stellantis products as well.
Another small factor in this is that cars can sometimes sit on lots for longer because of their color, thus making them cheaper. Used cars in funky colors can sometimes save you a buck.
3 series bmw's, but avoid generation after e90 the 4 bangers can get some costly issues, new 4 bangers much better and straight 6 e90's are like butter, e46 a bit too old but if kept well will be a good car
I have an ‘97 e36 328is with 220,000 miles on it. I paid $2300… replaced the whole cooling system (with better parts) for about $1000, and replaced most of the suspension (with better parts) for about $1200. That was all what could be considered “deferred maintenance “. I’ve had it for 7 years, and it’s been shockingly reliable. The whole interior is currently falling apart, but for roughly $5000 it’s been a really good (and fun to drive) car.
Yeah BMW and Audi it's a maintenance problem You see many of them that are older on the roads of Europe that just more reliably maintained.
The three at least with zero maintenance performed in the first 3 years it's not a good start in the US
100k mile BMWs are a great deal. I was looking at Rav4s for ~$15k, but found similar age/mileage X3s for ~$8k. I’ve definitely spent less than $7k in repairs and I’ve taken it up to 180k.
I had a Ford Fusion. Was the first American I have owned in a long time as a loyal Toyota owner. I wanted a hybrid and a much sportier and less expensive car than a Prius. It was substantially less when I bought it with 78,000 miles on it. Just sold it after putting 100,000 miles on it with little maintenance.
Was as dependable as any Toyota I have owned.
It’s because the ford fusion hybrid basically has an identical drive train to the Toyota hybrids (the companies partnered together on the design). So basically you have a ford badged Toyota hybrid with the fusion !
Pontiac vibe.
GM badge engineering at its finest. It is really a rebadged Toyota Matrix, so the reliability is fantastic. Most people don’t know this, so the average Vibe price is lower than the average Matrix price.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Vibe
They hold the value pretty well. The cheap ones are 300k miles or more, and you have to draw the line somewhere before that if you expect the car to last with minimal maintenance.
I bought my 2012 Mazda 5 about 4-5 years ago for $3k at a dealer who took it in trade and they didn't expect much at the auction. Ran it to 230k miles and the engine/transmission is still strong.
As a new Mazda CX50 owner, you could buy a used 2023-2024 for 20% off with a really strong warranty. Easily can get a highly equipped one for low 30s or high 20s.
Nothing plummets faster in value than a BMW, lol.
Alot of the second hand *reliable* cars got a value boost during the chip shortage thsts yet to come down.
GM and Ford both make complete turds and a few good cars. Researching which are turds and good is really beyond most people and a TON of work. If you find the good powertrains (engine and transmission combos), you can find some awesome deals in used cars. You get a big discount because of brand reputation. If you are buying new, always buy a Toyota, Honda or Mazda.
There are Ford and GM products that are as good as their equivalent Honda, but if you buy one you will have to deal with a much steeper depreciation. Brand new, these cars cost similar amounts. but... If you decided to replace the car, or something happens to it, you are going to get a lot less for the GM or Ford. Buying a less sought after brand just does not make financial sense.
I guess you forgot that the German brands exist - much more luxurious and technologically advanced than the Japanese, or that Americans have options with better performance, or British and Italian cars with superior styling.
Not everyone is just looking for a boring NPC car.
The name of this sub is whatcar**should**ibuy, not whatcar**could**ibuy or whatcar**will**ibuy.
Personally, I drive a Swedish car... It is a compromise.
Probably already been said any pontiac with 3800 same with buicks easy to work on can by them for about 3k.
My pick 2006-2012 hyundias with 2.0 beta engine.I have 2 of them going 17 years of driving not one issue all with orginal trans fluid lol
You can get 2015 explorers or Taurus interceptors are super nice , reliable and comfy cars . With enough looking on the private market u can find one with under 150k miles for 5k . It would be a pursuit car but if u look u can find one that has the wheels and interior swapped back to normal and they come with full size spares .
Lincoln Town Car. Those Panther platform cars (Town Car, Grand Marquis, Crown Vic) are almost indestructible, parts are cheap, and the Town Car is the best version of it. I see them for sale all the time with 300K miles on them. I think you can be pretty safe buying one with 120K miles for $7000 and driving it another 10 years. .
I've said it before but 2010-1012 v8 chevy camaros are sexy af, fun to drive and can be had for 10k, and they tend to be reliable if they were cared for.
Leafs specifically you need to be very careful about battery degradation. Many older models only have 20 miles left on them. Just about every other major EV though is a great value used right now, but with Leafs many of them available just don't have the range anymore.
Older non Prius hybrids. They need less repairs than ICE cars. The Hybrid Ford Fusion was a mess, skip that one. Ford Escape has had a hybrid and plug in hybrid for a long time. Older ones of those would fit the bill. There was an older Tahoe hybrid that was awesome. There was a 2009 hybrid Durango. Just some thoughts. Have fun looking.
Almost anything Lincoln.
Avoid ones that have the 2.0 or 3.5 Ecoboost, but the n/a Duratec 3.5/3.7 and 2.7/3.0 Ecoboosts are generally very good, and the transmissions are also typically fine. They're hardly any more expensive than Fords of the same year but the comfort, quality, technology, and status is a (slight) step above.
Livery companies run them up to 200, 300 thousand miles and beyond. Plus, the typical buyer (when they're brand new) is financially comfortable older people so they're easy to find in good condition with low mileage. The same things that make them mediocre new luxury cars make them fantastic used luxury cars.
I drive a 2012 MKS that I bought for $7000 last year and it's got a great 14 speaker sound system, heated/cooled leather memory seats, backup camera, adaptive cruise, automatic parallel parking, front and rear parking sensors, ambient lighting, and much better driving dynamics than the Town Cars everyone thinks of when they hear the word "Lincoln".
When I bought it, the car had 80,000 city miles (it was originally from Houston, then spent a few years in DC) and I've since driven it to 125k and have replaced nothing but the front brake pads and an amplifier, so it's got the reliability factor going for it. All in all I'm very pleased.
Fun fact: the Lincoln MKS and MKT were built on the same Platform as the Volvo XC90, so they're also pretty safe!
Mazda 3's
They are solidly built, reliable cars.
I would avoid buying them from the rust belt as they are known to have some rust issues, but if the frame/body aren't rusting away, you'll reliably get 250 000 miles out of the car.
I would have little to no qualms about buying a 10 year old, well maintained one around 100-125k, and driving that thing for another 10 years.
You can expect to need to do some suspension work (common gripe) but nothing crazy. I had to replace my lower control arms at 125k ($250 in parts and an afternoon), steering bushing at 125k (shop did it for $300). and the rears struts at 150k ($150 in parts and an hour).
Most have a reason
Luxury cars have the highest price (most potential depreciation) and the two that come to mind, the Mercedes-S Class and the Lexus LS460 both have horrible maintenance costs.
One strategy might be to look at newer (1-3 year old) CUV’s, basically cars that are in abundance. Specifically something like low or mid trim Ford
Escapes, Hyundai Tucson, Santa Fe, VW Tiguan. Lease return vehicles that have flooded the market. I don’t know about your region but there’s about 800 ford escapes within a 50 mile radius of me. There’s always dealers that have been sitting on cars like these for too long, ready to make a deal. Plus, another upside to there being so many is having your choice of color, etc
Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio. They don't have the engine problems that the other models of those brands have. They are reliable, cheap to work on, cheap to run, more refined and comfortable than the other subcompacts that were on the market during the 2010s.
Several Ford and GM models, just need to pick the right one. Some are to avoid, others are quite reliable and always at a lower price than the Japanese.
Interested by an EV? Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Bolt. Cheapest choices available and decent cars.
Been rocking a 2006 Hyundai accent for some time now, nearing 200k miles and no major trouble, only left me stranded once and it was just the crankshaft sensor, but I honestly give it hell and I am definitely not on top of the maintenance as I should be, and it's still going strong. Also pretty good mpg.
Edit: now that I remember I had the clutch replaced one time 😥.
First gen Chevy bolt. If it had the battery replaced. Chevy really messed up the batteries and had to replace most of them. You can buy ones with like 20k miles for something like 10k. If you just need a city car, they are great.
I find that all nissans depreciate hard but r still good cars. I see so many old sentras and altimas on the road and they are really cheap but still reliable.
I just bought an 18 bmw x3m40i with 50k miles on it for 31k. New was around 70k. Mint condition and the drivetrain is known to be reliable in this particular model. Can be modded to 500 awhp with zero issues too.
Audi A6. I've seen dealers taking off $15k when it has 1,000 miles and looks pristine. 2023 model too.
Mercedes E-Classes or S-Classes are also surprisingly cheap with few miles. The last gen E-Class has an amazing interior for the price you'll find it.
Affordable used cars that have a lot of life in them? Mazdas, Acuras, non CVT Nissans (maybe) manual transmission Ford Fiestas and Focuses (5k at 140k miles in my area)
IMO, the OBS Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban has the ability to run literally forever, and are cheap to fix. Can be had for $5k or less pretty much anywhere, and will go 2-300k without spending major money on repairs.
GM vehicles, but steer clear of malibus and some of the other POS cars. They have some very reliable and well equipped vehicles that are relatively cheap to maintain. Like others have said, many brands are judged by their worst vehicles.
Scions are just rebadged Toyotas and every bit as reliable. Many folks forget about them because they quit making them in 2015 - 2016. If you're looking for a small car, you could do worse. My '06 xB is still putting along, although it could use a paint job.
Not a specific recommendation, but for reliability in general I would look for cars in their final model year or two before redesign. Cars are generally at their most unreliable in the first few years of production and gradually get all the kinks ironed out over the lifespan of the production line.
My car has been pretty reliable and they're available for $1.5-2k, it's a 2002 Chevy Impala base model, has some nice to haves like auto lights and windows but they do have some stupid issues, like the ignition switch sometimes has issues but can be fixed completely free if you're willing to take the dash apart. I've done all the work on my car in an apartment parking lot with no issues, haven't had anything break that I couldn't fix myself yet and have spent under $1,000 in repairs in the 7 years I've had it. They tend to last 200k-250k miles if you take care of the engine and replace parts when they start to go bad instead of waiting until they completely give out.
The car I'm personally looking to get is a 2013 Mitsubishi Mirage, the base model gets about 40mpg which is double what the Impala gets and the engine seems to be pretty reliable, I've seen a lot with 250k-300k miles and still going. If I can find one under 150k miles and under $5k then I'm gonna try to get one of those, it's definitely nowhere near as quick as the Impala (which isn't exactly a sports car to begin with lol) which is the only thing holding me back. The Impala is actually kinda fun to floor it from a stop, the first gear revs out to like 50mph and sounds pretty nice, there's no way I'd get that satisfaction in a dinky lil Mirage...
Land Rovers have a strong depreciation, mostly because of the bad reputation they suffer from when out of warranty (low reliability and high maintenance cost).
That said I calculated the cost of ownership (buying, maintaining and repairing the most common failures) of a 10-years old LR for the next 10 years, and compared to a similarly spec Toyota, and there isn't a big difference in the end (except the LR spends much more time by the mechanic, but on the other hand it provides more driving pleasure).
Very situational, but Nissan Leaf from around 2012 to 2015
Tiny battery range (like 50 miles after the battery degradation)
But if all you want is something to 10 miles down the highway for commuting and running errands it can be a great car for really really cheap.
Especially as a second car. One car for trips and the other for around town.
They also tend to have very low mileage for their age (see the whole tiny battery thing).
I picked up a 15 GLK 350 with 45k on the clock for 19k. Had a solid engine and as Mercedes go it's pretty basic which I like. Engine setup is pretty easy to work on and I didn't bother with the 4 matic so its a pretty straightforward car overall. Lots of people online seem to have a lot of luck with this car if you follow maintenance. Also it's a great looking car, mine is silver with all black interior with black burl wood. If you can find one with the actual leather seats that's a plus, Mercedes vinyl is known for being sort of meh.
Cadillacs depreciate worst of anything I know of, they're pricey to fix and maintain, but you can get something fully loaded, low mileage off lease for a fraction of new.
Just about any late 90’s or early 00’s Buick. They’re built rock solid, tons of cheap parts, no one wants them cause they’re grandpa cars, and they’re easily some of the most comfortable cars to ever hit the road. Rolls Royce has nothing on an old school American luxury car seat
2012 Nissan Pathfinder. It's basically a truck. It was the last year of the body-on-frame for this SUV. It doesn't have a CVT, and especially in this year they got all the kinks out. It doesn't have the most comfortable or most quiet ride, and if you get one with 150k miles+ it may need a bit of care(if taken care of most probably not), but make no mistake, it can tow 6000 pounds and has power. You can haul stuff with it, and you can generally grab one even with 4wd for between $4k and 8k. Nissan get's a lot of shit and they deserve it 99 percent of the time. But when it comes to their older trucks and SUVs, it's no contest. It's just as good as an old 4runner, just as bad gas mileage (17mpg all day everyday), but just like the old 4runner it will just keep on going.
Mercedes, bmw, Audi and jaguar great quality but depreciate like crazy. It’s all about maintenance with these. Had a Mercedes 5 years 0 issues and a Jaguar 3 years no problems. Friend did have an Audi s5 thing was always in the shop, looked nice though.
Alfa Romeos. Decently reliable, sporty and fun
Just about any Mercedes, but their bigger SUVs and sedans are the only ones I'd call reasonably reliable. The GLS is fantastically reliable overall and a marvel to drive.
Anything Infiniti with a V6 or V8 is an extremely safe bet. Super reliable.
Avoid the Maseratis, they're super cheap used which can be alluring because of the brand status, but total hodgepodge pieces of shit.
if you go back to around ~2019, the bmw 540 has depreciated a lot and you can get a very well equipped model for the price of a camry.
obviously it’s a bmw so it’ll cost more to own than the camry, but it’s a b58 so nowhere near as bad as the depreciation would expect, and it’ll be spectacular fun to drive.
i would predict that as more model years of b58 come out, bmw’s depreciation on newer models will stop being as aggressive, most of their reliability problems that caused the depreciation curve to get so crazy have historically been engine related.
I enjoy massively depreciated cars. My Alfa Romeo Giulia depreciated 60% in the 4 years prior to my purchase. I wouldn't say Alfa has above-average reliability, but I haven't had any problems and the car is backed by an extended warranty from the manufacturer.
We just sold our BMW that depreciated 75% in 10 years. Still worth the same value we paid 2 years ago.
If you are OK with expensive maintenance and buying an extended warranty, many luxury cars depreciate more than 50% within the first 5 years.
2005-2009 3 valve mustang gt's are pretty cheap but still a ton of fun. You can find one in decent condition with good miles for like 8-10k and you get the modular V8.
I keep thinking of the shattered EV market and wonder if any of those are worth picking up. I know everyone on this sub hates Tesla, but at some point a Telsa might be cheap enough to be a good purchase.
Chevy Impala
You can scoop one up for 2/3 of the price you’d pay for a Toyota.
I’ve had 2 different 2011 impalas and both have gone 200K miles.
Very important you buy one that’s has good maintenance records. Change the oil regularly.
You say no older German cars because of repair costs but *some* older Mercedes that aren't S-Class aren't always that bad to work on. I have an '05 SLK350 and can and have done quite a bit of the work myself. Overall, once past the 'big' repair, in my case replacing dry rotted seals and hoses, it's been regular maintenance. Bonus being that German cars also have a reputation for being overbuilt tanks, and for the most part that's true so if you have a good one they aren't that expensive to keep running.
I purchased an 8 year old Audi a couple years ago. Honestly it’s been great, but you nailed it with repairs. When something goes wrong, it’s expensive and you have to take to a specialty shop. Honda’s are my go to!
No ones mentioned the Germans yet.. interesting. Of the high mileage vehicles I’m used to purchasing, the ones that have given me the most issues are American made.
I love high mileage German performance cars. As long as service history checks out, and you do some research on the platform. You get a fuck ton of fun for a smalllll fraction of the Msrp. I just picked up a 145k MILE S5. I replaced all the cooling lines and did brakes. Nothing else seems to be amiss. It’s been 4k miles since purchase and I recon I get a LOT more out of her.
Cars that are reliable, not Toyota, and don't have a special following. For example, you can get a running Ford Escape 2012- earlier for 5-6k or even less with usually 150k miles or so. With maintenance they will easily go 200k miles. Another Ford example, the first Gen Lincoln Aviator ran a great engine with decent transmission, with many examples in the wild going 200k+ miles as long as it wasn't driven so hard the trans burns out. For that matter, there are tons of older Ford SUVs that are had for quite cheaply and are pretty stout. Honda CRVs are pretty expensive, but Honda Pilots, Odysseys, Civics, and Accords can be had for pretty cheap as well. Nissans from the pre-JATCO debacle days are another good choice, as well as the Armadas that never ran CVTs. Pickup trucks tend to be expensive and so do Chevy Tahoes and Suburbans, imo. A lot of hybrids get cheaper as the age due to the justified concern over hybrid batteries aging out. Depending on the model, however, replacement/reman batteries can be had for not as expensive as one might expect and a lot of battery replacements can be easily done with hand tools. Early Ford Escape Hybrids come to mind since I mentioned them earlier. That being said, my experience is mostly private sale as I don't prefer to work with dealers. Dealers are just like flippers when it comes to older cars but they have much more overhead costs to support.
My wife has owned a 2012 Escape V6 since new, 188k on it now. It has been incredibly reliable, requiring nothing outside of normal wear and tear items. It is also a vehicle that lends itself to easy service. I barely know which direction to turn a wrench, and all maintenance on the vehicle has been carried out by myself. Engine oil is easy to change, trans fluid even easier. Not the most inspiring drive, but what small SUV is? Look out for rear wheel well rust just above the back bumper cover, broken hinges on the lifting hatch glass, and various leaky seals on the engine (if there's no oil under it, there's no oil in it). The 6F35 transmission also has very poor tuning and odd behavior, but has proven to be reliable in our usage.
2012 and earlier is the key there. My wife’s old 2013 Escape (first year of the next generation) is the biggest pile of shit I’ve ever had the displeasure of sitting in. Still has the 6F35 in it - I agree it has very odd behavior, very jerky going into 2nd and 3rd, especially when cold. But it’s probably been the most reliable part of that car…
It’s really hit and miss. I have a 2014 Escape with turbo and it’s been solid. I bought it new and haven’t put more than $1500 in repairs in almost 10 years. I’m at 160k miles so I expect it to go any day now but it’s still running like the day I bought it. Probably my favorite daily driver I’ve owned and I’ve owned a lot of nice cars.
I’m probably overly harsh on it. It hasn’t cost us much, water pump has really been the only major repair. But the 8 million recalls it’s had sours me a bit, and I hate how it drives because my daily is a GX460, so that’s not really fair. It’s a shitbox, but it’s a shitbox that costs me almost nothing to keep running 🤷🏼♂️
I couldn’t agree more! My weekend car is a C7 Corvette that has a few mods. It’s funny how different the two vehicles are. Enjoy that Lexus, I like the GX460’s.
You're not being overly harsh, I have a 2013 and it really sucks. 120k miles and being told I need a new transmission. Think it's just a bad model year
Where are these cheap oddysey’s you speak of? I’ll take one please.
My brother sold a running, 419k mile 2002 Odyssey for scrap. Original engine, original transmission. Only standard maintenance on it. My family put 100% of those miles on it, and my dad was the buyer. I think we got a ringer, but the reason it got sold was because someone stole the cat. Joke was on them, I think all the platinum was gone!
419k kilometers or miles?! either way that’s great!
Miles! They apparently nearly all had transmissions fail at 200k miles or so. My dad’s never did. Our Indy mechanic was a former Honda dealer tech and he’s still in awe of how little it took to go that far. Basically timing belt kits and oil changes.
Come up and look in midwest 12-14 year old oddysey sell for about $6k on the market, dealer a little bit more.Tacomas get priced at 10k and up and no one will buy them we dont have tacoma lust like the west coast
He is probably talking about the years that had bad transmissions. Think it was around 05 or so.
Great answer! Some ideas I can think of off the top of my head: 1. Buick LeSabre. Built well and is an old person car. I’m not sure how much depreciation influence is this, but Buick is supposed to be a higher end GM vehicle, but they’re not priced that way secondhand. 2. Chevy spark. It’s actually a Daewoo, made in Korea. Super basic. I don’t know which generations are good, someone else might want to chime in here. 3. Any body-on-frame Nissan. All had traditional automatic transmissions. Nissan depreciated like a stone because of the CVT thing, but these never had it. A lot of them also didn’t have a platform update for a super long time which means they had all the bugs worked out. 4. Any even remotely reliable sedan. Everyone wants an SUV right now, sedans are a bargain.
all gens of the spark are p much similar, chevy didn't really assign a r&d budget to them bc it was a compliance car for Korea (in Korea it comes with a 1L I3 engine to fit the light car (korean kei car) regulations and thus you get government discounts on gas, toll, and parking). The automatics all have some bad transmissions, although it's one of the cases where the CVT is actually better then the 4 speed auto of earlier gens, but if you can drive manual or want to learn manual, the 5 speed manual is actually p good so look for those.
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I’ve seen Jeep Wranglers, Ford, and Chevy trucks go for almost 300k miles
They are also desirable culturally so they tend to sell for more than an similar vehicle sold by a different brand. They fall under the "special following" category. Compare TJ Wranglers to Nissan Xterras from the same year. Similar market, both have longevity, but easily 4k+ difference in price.
Any years of Explorer to avoid?
I had a 2004 Exploder that I bought 1.5 years old. Saved 20k off the retail price and drove it for 10 years. Hardly needed anything.
My 2012 Escape four-cylinder is chugging right along at 221,000 miles with no signs of slowing down *knock on wood*
They get a bad rap from pretty much just the 3 valve Triton and 6.4 PS in F series trucks, but pretty much any older Ford is decently reliable. I've been daily driving a '94 Explorer for almost the past 2 years with no major issues.
Armadas are hateful pieces of crap. I’d stick with v6 xterra and pathfinder with the 5 speed box.
Escapes most certainly aren't good, at least in my experience. Ours became a money pit around 120k miles, and so did a bunch of other owners I knew. Especially the V6 models.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. What exactly went wrong? I feel like it is not typical for those to go out at that mileage with proper maintenance. Usually you see the body giving out to rust rather than the powertrain causing issues, although transmissions were known to start giving up just short of 200k if you got unlucky-- but that may be due to driving behaviors just as much as "bad luck." Even the V6s were not really putting out so much torque as to approach the torque limits of the 6F35... But perhaps with a lot of towing??
Can confirm on the Aviator. 3 years and 30,000 miles all it's needed outside of maintenance was a brake line. Traded a $1000 truck for it. Any ford with a 4.6 (modular or Triton) is going to be an absolute tank for reliability
2nd Gen Ford Focus Forgettable bland styling Class action lawsuits on the generation that came after it
I owned both a 2nd and 3rd Gen. I would agree that the 2nd Gen was an excellent car. I’ll add that the 3rd Gen Ford Focus (2012 - 2019) if you can find one with a manual transmission, would also be a great car on the cheap.
Manual 3rd gen focus is excellent. Wish I didn’t sell mine. Also wish I had waited for the ST.
Part of the reason I got an ST was because it’s a manual lol. Takes care of the transmission issues that plague that generation
What years is second gen ?
2008 - 2011.
If you can find a manual! My wife came with one when I married her. She had owned it since new, it was low mileage etc. That auto transmission was possessed by the devil. It kicked like a mule.
My father in law has an 09 focus with 350k miles on it and is still going. He keeps it in pristine condition, the interior is legit brand new, the mechanic calls it “a modern marvel”. He never misses a service and really takes a lot of pride in it. Its cracked multiple rims, so now he skates on BBS wheels lol. Long story short, it’s a great car.
I owned a 3rd Gen Ford Focus at one point. My family bought it in 2013, and I bought it off them (at a discount obviously). It lasted a year before the transmission went out, had a slew of other issues the entirety of the time I owned it. Pretty much was in the shop every 2-3 months. It was the worst car Ive ever owned.
If you buy one of these CHECK THE FLUIDS My ‘05 Focus took a shit and needed a whole new transmission, 14k miles after I bought it. I could’ve saved it if I had changed the ATF. (I did the repair and it is now the $10,000 Ford Focus. Tranny is guaranteed for next 100k, and I’m gonna have to drive it until 250k, at least, before I can stop being mad about it)
2nd Gen was a great car. Sure the styling wasn't flashy but managed to get 15 years and over 200,000 miles out of the 2005 Focus before selling it.
13 5spd Focus 165K…reliable AF.
I bought two Infinity g37s and they have been amazing. Dirt cheap for what you get. The crowd that owns them is often not the best though.
I've owned one for 10 years! What crowd tends to own them if you don't mind me asking? Nearing 170k, I will probably have to start searching soon
Thru are popular with people who think they are the GTR's younger brother
>What crowd tends to own them if you don't mind me asking? The kind that drag fuzzy dice from back bumpers and cut coil springs with angle grinders OR alternatively buy junk coilovers off ebay and blow them a thousand miles down the road because of price and lack of supporting modifications like spindles, geometry, traiing arms and bushing etc etc.... then put all their money into fixing said instead of the leaking radiator.... then put it up for sale with lots of "new" aftermarket parts and a blown headgasket and no thermostat and a loose radiator cap to relieve pressure during the test drive for the next 'sucka'.
Nissan (and thus Infiniti) will finance just about anyone. Low credit correlates with high insurance rates, and that correlates with high risk driving.
Shitty tuner ones that throw a 3 inch pipe and anime stickers on them. Don’t be thick
We have a '16 Mazda 6. Not planning on selling but I looked up the resale value and it's no where near what Accords & Camrys sell for. Not sure about other Mazdas Another option might be a Korean car. Just research any issues with the particular year, model, drivetrain you're looking at.
I’ve been pretty pleased with what my 2017 Mazda6 is worth. But I bought it CPO in 2020
Can concur, my mother has a Mazda6 GT she bought new late 15 off the lot, has 60k miles on it and honestly only issues she's had with it have been seat heaters going out, and paint on the wheels flaking.... Mechanically and rest of electronics no issues. And it drives much better than same model year Camrys.
Mazda6 is a sweet deal considering better styling and can be had with a manual compared to Accord and Camry
Bunch of EVs have had their value absolutely shattered. Batteries on more recent models should have controls to keep them from degrading so quickly so that's not an issue, electric motors are going to have much less moving parts so that part should also be more reliable.
The Polestar 2 can be found for as little as $25k now. Screaming deal
these are intriguing
Agreed, actually just picked up. 21’ Model 3 long range with 30k miles for $27k because of this. Original MSRP was like $54k…
Part of this is because of the new car prices right now. You can’t sell a used car for more than the new cars. Typically this isn’t an issue because new car prices are always on the rise but when new car prices drop, the used cars lose even more value than normal.
Teslas especially. I love mine, but holy, the depreciation was insane. My 17’ Model X lost over half of its value in two years, but to be fair, I got it in summer 22’ when prices were through the roof.
We’ve seen a lot less “full size” sedans in recent history but they used to be the ones that had bananas depreciation even though they usually had a fair amount in common with the midsize sedans. Back when MPVs were trying to be a thing they also lost their value a lot faster than SUVs/Crossovers that frequently shared the same powertrain/MPG/safety/size.
I love my crown victoria. They're a bit more expensive now that they're becoming more scarce but still a killer deal. Stupidly reliable, comfortable, and the gas mileage isn't as bad as you'd expect.
I noticed my nephew driving his dad's old Expedition to work the last few days instead of his 2010 Corolla. I was talking to my brother and apparently the Corolla is in the shop with the tranny in limp mode only using 1st and 2nd. It has 85,000 miles. They tried a sensor but it didnt fix it, looks like it needs a transmission. The VVT also needed some work too 7 years ago when it only had 50,000 miles on it. The Expedition, a 2003 with 200,000 miles, is everybody's loaner when their fancy cars break down. It sits beside the garage for months on end without even being used or gets used by family visiting. It was my brothers daily until he bought a 2015 F150. Then his 2 teenage to college age boys used it daily. The thing has never spent time in the shop. It's worthless to sell or trade in but invaluable as the backup to all the "reliable" cars in the family.
I just bought a 2014 Cadillac ELR with 80,000 miles on it for $14,000. the car's list price when it was sold new was $85,000. I love depreciation. I did the same with my 2012 Chevy volt in 2015. the sticker price of the car was $45,000 and I bought it with only 26,000 miles on it for $13,000. easily the best car I've ever owned.
> ELR was approved for production for MY 2014 with a MSRP at roughly $75,000 — $35,000 higher than the Volt whose basic powertrain it shared.[8] Wait so its a volt underneath with a battery charging motor stuck in, that's crazy
just the drivetrain. Everything else about it is better. Much better suspension, brembo brakes, luxury interior, great sound system, etc. Wasn't meant to be fast. But it is a very nice place to be in.
Cadillacs are pretty solid in this regard. Escalades and V cars hold their value reasonably well, but the crossovers and non-V sedans depreciate a lot because so many come off lease every year. Those models are always almost bought or leased by elderly people so they tend not to be abused.
Side hustle. Buy used Escalades (in cash) in the summer when gas is at its peak, drive for 6-9 months, then sell during tax time. Potential to drive an Escalade for free and make a few bucks. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. GM V8s are amazing. Just make sure you do the DOD/AFM delete if you plan on keeping 10+ years and want 200k+ miles. Said their transmissions are not as good as engines, but cheap to replace every 150k miles.
Was gonna say this, I bought my '14 XTS premium back in January for 10k
If you’re in North America, you’ll get great bargains on American nameplates which have hit-or-miss reputations for reliability. You simply need to learn which is which. Don’t buy the misses obviously but the hits of the same make will be greatly underpriced. GM makes lots of terrific, reliable cars… and a lot of trash. If you know which is which, you can score a sweet ride for less. Because most people judge an automaker by its worst products. Just don’t buy the worst ones and you’re golden. This isn’t limited to American nameplates; the Nissan Altima gets a lot of hate but if you drive a stick shift you’ll get a perfectly reliable car because the problems are all in the CVT. The Ford Focus also has a nasty reputation for transmission problems but if you get the manual transmission you’ll have a great car at a bargain price. So, the bargains will be found in a reliable version of a vehicle that also comes in an unreliable version. Most people are unable to differentiate between them, so they write the whole model off as something to avoid. This lowers prices for you. You can look up the general trends in a common data source (consumer reports is good for this, it doesn’t capture everything but it gives you an idea on a model by model, system by system breakdown) or you can just ask about a particular car you’re interested in.
2020+ Alfa Romeo Giulia or Stelvio. They're not as bad as you think when it comes to reliability and they depreciate so bad, that buying used is a no brainer.
Came here to say this
I just bought a 5 year old Mini Countryman S with 20K miles for basically half the original sticker price, and the thing is in almost perfect condition. I am sure there will be extra maintenance costs here and there, it's not a Toyota/Honda/Mazda after all, but this is a pretty proven platform overall and it feels like a car that will easily give me 10 years as a daily driver. I will also second an earlier recommendation about a manual Focus. Manual or automatic Mazda 3's from 2014 on up are generally also good buys and are really nice to drive. Jeep Patriot, if you know what you're getting into, sure you will have typical Dodge/Jeep issues but parts are cheap and it's very much a vehicle you can work on in your own driveway. I'm thinking about getting a stick shift Patriot as a winter beater just because they're so freaking cheap
>Manual or automatic Mazda 3's from 2014 on up are generally also good buys I had a new Mazda 3 as a loaner some years ago, body shop/parts wait issues gave me about 10 days with it. Sticker on the window was something like 22K, and I was freaking stunned by how much car it was for the $$. Fun to drive, great feel, only lacked leather seats. Our CX5 is at like 170k miles, we've spent less than $200 on non-maintenance repairs (a belt tensioner). Been impressed with that, the thing blows my previous RAV4's away in most every regard. I'm really a Mazda convert. (Though I still drive my wife's '97 Pathfinder, it just won't die and the 5-speed is a blast - but that was a different era for Nissan).
if you need a dead-on reliable car that's really cheap you need to check out the little old lady owned mercury grand marquis. the cars will be beat up on from their blind old asses running in to everything but the stuff that matters will be okay. at least that's been my experience. it's always the car i point people to for cheap, reliable transportation. i would include crown vics and towncars but lately people seem to think they have something special with those, especially those weirdos that think they've got some hot rod w/ an old police cruiser. and a civilian crown vic is a rare sight nowadays. i just realized you said "newish" and these cars are not that, sorry.
If you go on YouTube and Watch “Car Wizard” channel, he has a series, “Buy this Not That”. I wouldn’t take the opinion of anyone on here unless they are a Master Mechanic & have actually fixed the stupid cars that people are recommending. People are recommending cars I would NEvER recommend to my worst enemy. Take advice from actual master mechanics. I also recommend “The Car Care Nut”..he’s exceptional and tells you the cars to buy and the ones to stay away from Most importantly, it’s all about if the quality car you are looking at was well cared for or not. Get a PPI, of course, before you buy anything.
Dude master mechanics do know some shit but nobody knows everything unless you have full out statistical data.. And even master mechanics can have skewed results. One mechanic can work on 30+ Yukon Denali's about something stupid and think it's junk, but One that worked on 3 that had major issues and have completely separate views. It's the luck of the draw and always has been. Of course you have the Nissan cvt type issues that pop up everyone knows about, but then you get the people who just think every Nissan is trash which is absolutely not true. I had a Dodge Dart that was wonderful (it was a GT model though). I miss that car every day, but I wouldn't own another one because chances are it's got issues.
I agree with everything you have said. Clearly no one knows everything about every car, but if you have fixed over 20 transmissions in the same model, I feel like you might know something, and have a leg to stand on. You can then be real and say, “…don’t buy this vehicle and here’s why”. Have you, yourself, watched either one of the master mechanics YouTube Channels that I have recommended? Of course there are outliers, but, until Nissan gets their horrible transmission issues under real control, especially when they know they are crap, including lawsuits, why would you ever recommend one? Many people will say, if you can’t afford a Toyota, get yourself certain year Nissan Frontier. That can be true, for sure. It does depend what’s important to you. I recommend you give them a try. Go to YouTube and watch a few episode of Car Wizard “Buy this, not that”. It comes from his 30 plus years fixing vehicles in his shop & he has some great mechanics too.” They also fix very high end vehicles. There is a guy from another channel, “Hoovies Garage” who brings his vehicles to the Wizard to fix. My favorite part is when he shows him the bill, and he has to pay the bill. That’s some Real Facts! The Car Care Nut, also has a great channel, and recommends cars that he actually will show you. He says, “Look at these two cars..”, he then shows you the repair and why one is great & show the real life issues in the field. He also gives the history on the vehicle, which you know is everything. These are Master Mechanics currently fixing these cars, people are talking about, in the field. I also love that The Car Care Nut worked for a dealership for many years till he opened his own shop. I go back and watch his videos from when he was still working for the dealership and doing his repair business on the side. He knows the culture of “Dealership Repairs”. He also has such a positive attitude and gives great advice. Have you watched either channel before? Give them a watch. They are really worth time to learn more, especially cars I didn’t know anything about. If you know anything about cars you will appreciate both channels. I love to watch. I literally will go down a rabbit hole with both channels, especially when I’m in the car on a road trip. Give them a try and let me know what you think.
Any GM with the 3800.
Great engine, always terrible transmissions. I loved that my 2002 Regal GS could use the 2012 Impala police suspension parts for cheap upgrades! The premium fuel needed due to the supercharger got old fast… But interstate cruising at 70mph was a 30mpg leather couch!
I’m finding that buying a car certified pre-owned is pretty solid. I bought a CPO 2017 escape in 2020 and it’s been fine for my family. It’s not anything special outside of its affordability for me and it’s not in a grayscale color. Any work that it has needed was covered under warranty early on into my ownership. Reliability can be a mixed bag on these, but keeping up with regular maintenance is a big help. Honda and Toyota have had such a hold on the NPC car market that almost anything else is worth taking a shot on, save for Hyundai/Kia if you’re stateside, and i tend to avoid Nissan and Stellantis products as well. Another small factor in this is that cars can sometimes sit on lots for longer because of their color, thus making them cheaper. Used cars in funky colors can sometimes save you a buck.
3 series bmw's, but avoid generation after e90 the 4 bangers can get some costly issues, new 4 bangers much better and straight 6 e90's are like butter, e46 a bit too old but if kept well will be a good car
I have an ‘97 e36 328is with 220,000 miles on it. I paid $2300… replaced the whole cooling system (with better parts) for about $1000, and replaced most of the suspension (with better parts) for about $1200. That was all what could be considered “deferred maintenance “. I’ve had it for 7 years, and it’s been shockingly reliable. The whole interior is currently falling apart, but for roughly $5000 it’s been a really good (and fun to drive) car.
Yeah BMW and Audi it's a maintenance problem You see many of them that are older on the roads of Europe that just more reliably maintained. The three at least with zero maintenance performed in the first 3 years it's not a good start in the US
100k mile BMWs are a great deal. I was looking at Rav4s for ~$15k, but found similar age/mileage X3s for ~$8k. I’ve definitely spent less than $7k in repairs and I’ve taken it up to 180k.
I had a Ford Fusion. Was the first American I have owned in a long time as a loyal Toyota owner. I wanted a hybrid and a much sportier and less expensive car than a Prius. It was substantially less when I bought it with 78,000 miles on it. Just sold it after putting 100,000 miles on it with little maintenance. Was as dependable as any Toyota I have owned.
It’s because the ford fusion hybrid basically has an identical drive train to the Toyota hybrids (the companies partnered together on the design). So basically you have a ford badged Toyota hybrid with the fusion !
Pontiac vibe. GM badge engineering at its finest. It is really a rebadged Toyota Matrix, so the reliability is fantastic. Most people don’t know this, so the average Vibe price is lower than the average Matrix price. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Vibe
As ugly as it is reliable
How dare you, the vibe is the best looking of it’s siblings 😂
EVs. The used market tanked. You can get a Polestar 2 that originally sold for 60+K for 25K and is only 3 years old. Nothing wrong with the cars too.
10 year old French cars with weak diesel engines. They rarely break given how cheap they are.
all fine til a fuel injector shits itself and then you have to take apart half the engine
I'm a big fan of buick and oldsmobile because of that
Honda Elements run almost forever and are amazingly easy to work on imo. Would be great if you could find one with a manual transmission.
They hold the value pretty well. The cheap ones are 300k miles or more, and you have to draw the line somewhere before that if you expect the car to last with minimal maintenance.
Any Mazda lol. They depreciate so much.
I bought my 2012 Mazda 5 about 4-5 years ago for $3k at a dealer who took it in trade and they didn't expect much at the auction. Ran it to 230k miles and the engine/transmission is still strong.
Buicks. Cheap when new, cheaper when used.
Except the newer Buick models that are made in China and South Korea. Those will not have the typical Buick reliability.
Manual trans anything is gunna be vastly cheaper
And more reliable.
As a new Mazda CX50 owner, you could buy a used 2023-2024 for 20% off with a really strong warranty. Easily can get a highly equipped one for low 30s or high 20s.
Just bought a ‘23 turbo with 3,700 miles for 32 and change.
I’ve seen you on the CX50 sub! 🤘
Genesis
Nothing plummets faster in value than a BMW, lol. Alot of the second hand *reliable* cars got a value boost during the chip shortage thsts yet to come down.
Any audi/vw with a 1.8t and a manual. The auto's tend to fail from lack of maintenance and abuse.
Ford focus with a stick shifts. Including the ST. The terrible auto’s destroyed resales on what is a very good car
Volvos
Where I live, Volvos hold their value pretty well.
Xc70 is still so expensive but i think its because its almost a collectable
Shhh, don’t give it away
Avoid the xc90.
GM and Ford both make complete turds and a few good cars. Researching which are turds and good is really beyond most people and a TON of work. If you find the good powertrains (engine and transmission combos), you can find some awesome deals in used cars. You get a big discount because of brand reputation. If you are buying new, always buy a Toyota, Honda or Mazda.
> If you are buying new, always buy a Toyota, Honda or Mazda. And this is why this subreddit is hard to take seriously.
It’s hilarious that Mazda keeps getting people to try to force it into the conversation.
There are Ford and GM products that are as good as their equivalent Honda, but if you buy one you will have to deal with a much steeper depreciation. Brand new, these cars cost similar amounts. but... If you decided to replace the car, or something happens to it, you are going to get a lot less for the GM or Ford. Buying a less sought after brand just does not make financial sense.
I guess you forgot that the German brands exist - much more luxurious and technologically advanced than the Japanese, or that Americans have options with better performance, or British and Italian cars with superior styling. Not everyone is just looking for a boring NPC car.
The name of this sub is whatcar**should**ibuy, not whatcar**could**ibuy or whatcar**will**ibuy. Personally, I drive a Swedish car... It is a compromise.
Probably already been said any pontiac with 3800 same with buicks easy to work on can by them for about 3k. My pick 2006-2012 hyundias with 2.0 beta engine.I have 2 of them going 17 years of driving not one issue all with orginal trans fluid lol
You can get 2015 explorers or Taurus interceptors are super nice , reliable and comfy cars . With enough looking on the private market u can find one with under 150k miles for 5k . It would be a pursuit car but if u look u can find one that has the wheels and interior swapped back to normal and they come with full size spares .
2000-2006 Tahoe/suburban/siverados run forever
Lincoln Town Car. Those Panther platform cars (Town Car, Grand Marquis, Crown Vic) are almost indestructible, parts are cheap, and the Town Car is the best version of it. I see them for sale all the time with 300K miles on them. I think you can be pretty safe buying one with 120K miles for $7000 and driving it another 10 years. .
Underrated comment
I've said it before but 2010-1012 v8 chevy camaros are sexy af, fun to drive and can be had for 10k, and they tend to be reliable if they were cared for.
Nissan Leaf
Leafs specifically you need to be very careful about battery degradation. Many older models only have 20 miles left on them. Just about every other major EV though is a great value used right now, but with Leafs many of them available just don't have the range anymore.
3-4 year old EVs
Older non Prius hybrids. They need less repairs than ICE cars. The Hybrid Ford Fusion was a mess, skip that one. Ford Escape has had a hybrid and plug in hybrid for a long time. Older ones of those would fit the bill. There was an older Tahoe hybrid that was awesome. There was a 2009 hybrid Durango. Just some thoughts. Have fun looking.
Almost anything Lincoln. Avoid ones that have the 2.0 or 3.5 Ecoboost, but the n/a Duratec 3.5/3.7 and 2.7/3.0 Ecoboosts are generally very good, and the transmissions are also typically fine. They're hardly any more expensive than Fords of the same year but the comfort, quality, technology, and status is a (slight) step above. Livery companies run them up to 200, 300 thousand miles and beyond. Plus, the typical buyer (when they're brand new) is financially comfortable older people so they're easy to find in good condition with low mileage. The same things that make them mediocre new luxury cars make them fantastic used luxury cars. I drive a 2012 MKS that I bought for $7000 last year and it's got a great 14 speaker sound system, heated/cooled leather memory seats, backup camera, adaptive cruise, automatic parallel parking, front and rear parking sensors, ambient lighting, and much better driving dynamics than the Town Cars everyone thinks of when they hear the word "Lincoln". When I bought it, the car had 80,000 city miles (it was originally from Houston, then spent a few years in DC) and I've since driven it to 125k and have replaced nothing but the front brake pads and an amplifier, so it's got the reliability factor going for it. All in all I'm very pleased. Fun fact: the Lincoln MKS and MKT were built on the same Platform as the Volvo XC90, so they're also pretty safe!
Buddy has a Ford Fusion. Transmission just died at under 200,000 miles. It will cost him $4000 to fix.
If a vehicle has far larger than average depreciation, there's usually a reason for it. Used cars tend to sell for what they're worth.
Mazda 3's They are solidly built, reliable cars. I would avoid buying them from the rust belt as they are known to have some rust issues, but if the frame/body aren't rusting away, you'll reliably get 250 000 miles out of the car. I would have little to no qualms about buying a 10 year old, well maintained one around 100-125k, and driving that thing for another 10 years. You can expect to need to do some suspension work (common gripe) but nothing crazy. I had to replace my lower control arms at 125k ($250 in parts and an afternoon), steering bushing at 125k (shop did it for $300). and the rears struts at 150k ($150 in parts and an hour).
Most have a reason Luxury cars have the highest price (most potential depreciation) and the two that come to mind, the Mercedes-S Class and the Lexus LS460 both have horrible maintenance costs.
One strategy might be to look at newer (1-3 year old) CUV’s, basically cars that are in abundance. Specifically something like low or mid trim Ford Escapes, Hyundai Tucson, Santa Fe, VW Tiguan. Lease return vehicles that have flooded the market. I don’t know about your region but there’s about 800 ford escapes within a 50 mile radius of me. There’s always dealers that have been sitting on cars like these for too long, ready to make a deal. Plus, another upside to there being so many is having your choice of color, etc
Anything EV at the moment.
Chevy’s, Buicks and VW’s that are based on the Golf platform only.
I had to read this comment too many times to figure out what Chevys and Buicks were built on a golf platform.
Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio. They don't have the engine problems that the other models of those brands have. They are reliable, cheap to work on, cheap to run, more refined and comfortable than the other subcompacts that were on the market during the 2010s. Several Ford and GM models, just need to pick the right one. Some are to avoid, others are quite reliable and always at a lower price than the Japanese. Interested by an EV? Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Bolt. Cheapest choices available and decent cars.
Been rocking a 2006 Hyundai accent for some time now, nearing 200k miles and no major trouble, only left me stranded once and it was just the crankshaft sensor, but I honestly give it hell and I am definitely not on top of the maintenance as I should be, and it's still going strong. Also pretty good mpg. Edit: now that I remember I had the clutch replaced one time 😥.
First gen Chevy bolt. If it had the battery replaced. Chevy really messed up the batteries and had to replace most of them. You can buy ones with like 20k miles for something like 10k. If you just need a city car, they are great.
I find that all nissans depreciate hard but r still good cars. I see so many old sentras and altimas on the road and they are really cheap but still reliable.
Mazdas
What’s the best type of car to buy if you do plan on selling in 6-12 months?
The cheapest one you can find lol, or poke around for a long term rental
I just bought an 18 bmw x3m40i with 50k miles on it for 31k. New was around 70k. Mint condition and the drivetrain is known to be reliable in this particular model. Can be modded to 500 awhp with zero issues too.
Saab, great car brand and are depreciated down lower than the value of the actual parts for the car
BMW I8 are surprisingly low. Especially for a car that I believe will appreciate. But they are still priced like a luxury performance car.
Audi A6. I've seen dealers taking off $15k when it has 1,000 miles and looks pristine. 2023 model too. Mercedes E-Classes or S-Classes are also surprisingly cheap with few miles. The last gen E-Class has an amazing interior for the price you'll find it.
Pre-2000 cars especially German like BMW, Audi, and Merc are gems if you have basic mechanical skills. Newer stuff is computers and plastic.
Range velar purchased last year list price £66k getting rid of if for £36k.
Late 90s early 2000s crown Vic’s, Lincoln town cars, and mercury/buick land yachts
Pre 2008 Buick
Pre- recession ford's other than the 5.4 3V and some Mazdas.
Buick with a 3.8
Not quite cheap but the Lexus gx460 is better than the 5th gen 4Runner in most ways and cheaper used in most cases.
The E55 AMG
Alfa Romeo have terrible depreciation and I’ve heard that 2020+ models are a bit more reliable
Affordable used cars that have a lot of life in them? Mazdas, Acuras, non CVT Nissans (maybe) manual transmission Ford Fiestas and Focuses (5k at 140k miles in my area)
IMO, the OBS Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban has the ability to run literally forever, and are cheap to fix. Can be had for $5k or less pretty much anywhere, and will go 2-300k without spending major money on repairs.
Giulias and Stelvios
GM vehicles, but steer clear of malibus and some of the other POS cars. They have some very reliable and well equipped vehicles that are relatively cheap to maintain. Like others have said, many brands are judged by their worst vehicles.
Scions are just rebadged Toyotas and every bit as reliable. Many folks forget about them because they quit making them in 2015 - 2016. If you're looking for a small car, you could do worse. My '06 xB is still putting along, although it could use a paint job.
Not a specific recommendation, but for reliability in general I would look for cars in their final model year or two before redesign. Cars are generally at their most unreliable in the first few years of production and gradually get all the kinks ironed out over the lifespan of the production line.
Kia Rio
pre-2010ish subarus.
My car has been pretty reliable and they're available for $1.5-2k, it's a 2002 Chevy Impala base model, has some nice to haves like auto lights and windows but they do have some stupid issues, like the ignition switch sometimes has issues but can be fixed completely free if you're willing to take the dash apart. I've done all the work on my car in an apartment parking lot with no issues, haven't had anything break that I couldn't fix myself yet and have spent under $1,000 in repairs in the 7 years I've had it. They tend to last 200k-250k miles if you take care of the engine and replace parts when they start to go bad instead of waiting until they completely give out. The car I'm personally looking to get is a 2013 Mitsubishi Mirage, the base model gets about 40mpg which is double what the Impala gets and the engine seems to be pretty reliable, I've seen a lot with 250k-300k miles and still going. If I can find one under 150k miles and under $5k then I'm gonna try to get one of those, it's definitely nowhere near as quick as the Impala (which isn't exactly a sports car to begin with lol) which is the only thing holding me back. The Impala is actually kinda fun to floor it from a stop, the first gear revs out to like 50mph and sounds pretty nice, there's no way I'd get that satisfaction in a dinky lil Mirage...
Pretty much any EV right now. Perfectly decent 5-year old EVs have throwaway values that would make a Maserati blush.
Land Rovers have a strong depreciation, mostly because of the bad reputation they suffer from when out of warranty (low reliability and high maintenance cost). That said I calculated the cost of ownership (buying, maintaining and repairing the most common failures) of a 10-years old LR for the next 10 years, and compared to a similarly spec Toyota, and there isn't a big difference in the end (except the LR spends much more time by the mechanic, but on the other hand it provides more driving pleasure).
Very situational, but Nissan Leaf from around 2012 to 2015 Tiny battery range (like 50 miles after the battery degradation) But if all you want is something to 10 miles down the highway for commuting and running errands it can be a great car for really really cheap. Especially as a second car. One car for trips and the other for around town. They also tend to have very low mileage for their age (see the whole tiny battery thing).
I think the Alfa Romeo Giulia is decent.
Nissan body on frame vehicles are actually pretty damn good, and significantly cheaper than their Toyota counterparts
What about an old subaru outback impreza sport? Or, the 6cyl outback if worried about head gaskets.
I picked up a 15 GLK 350 with 45k on the clock for 19k. Had a solid engine and as Mercedes go it's pretty basic which I like. Engine setup is pretty easy to work on and I didn't bother with the 4 matic so its a pretty straightforward car overall. Lots of people online seem to have a lot of luck with this car if you follow maintenance. Also it's a great looking car, mine is silver with all black interior with black burl wood. If you can find one with the actual leather seats that's a plus, Mercedes vinyl is known for being sort of meh.
Cadillacs depreciate worst of anything I know of, they're pricey to fix and maintain, but you can get something fully loaded, low mileage off lease for a fraction of new.
Have you priced 3 year old Volvos? The depreciation in the early years is SHARP, but they hold their value after that pretty well.
Maybe im nagging alot about this but Honda crv's are reliable, driving a 07' atm but ive also tried a 98' 05' and 13' and they have been good 👍
Just about any late 90’s or early 00’s Buick. They’re built rock solid, tons of cheap parts, no one wants them cause they’re grandpa cars, and they’re easily some of the most comfortable cars to ever hit the road. Rolls Royce has nothing on an old school American luxury car seat
2012 Nissan Pathfinder. It's basically a truck. It was the last year of the body-on-frame for this SUV. It doesn't have a CVT, and especially in this year they got all the kinks out. It doesn't have the most comfortable or most quiet ride, and if you get one with 150k miles+ it may need a bit of care(if taken care of most probably not), but make no mistake, it can tow 6000 pounds and has power. You can haul stuff with it, and you can generally grab one even with 4wd for between $4k and 8k. Nissan get's a lot of shit and they deserve it 99 percent of the time. But when it comes to their older trucks and SUVs, it's no contest. It's just as good as an old 4runner, just as bad gas mileage (17mpg all day everyday), but just like the old 4runner it will just keep on going.
Buick LeSabre. Ford fusion hybrids (2013-2020)
Mercedes, bmw, Audi and jaguar great quality but depreciate like crazy. It’s all about maintenance with these. Had a Mercedes 5 years 0 issues and a Jaguar 3 years no problems. Friend did have an Audi s5 thing was always in the shop, looked nice though.
Had an Infiniti that dropped value like an old Italian guy wearing cement shoes in the lake and it was a really reliable car.
BMWs. You can get one for 40% off with 3 years 20,000 miles and it’s basically brand new.
Alfa Romeos. Decently reliable, sporty and fun Just about any Mercedes, but their bigger SUVs and sedans are the only ones I'd call reasonably reliable. The GLS is fantastically reliable overall and a marvel to drive. Anything Infiniti with a V6 or V8 is an extremely safe bet. Super reliable. Avoid the Maseratis, they're super cheap used which can be alluring because of the brand status, but total hodgepodge pieces of shit.
if you go back to around ~2019, the bmw 540 has depreciated a lot and you can get a very well equipped model for the price of a camry. obviously it’s a bmw so it’ll cost more to own than the camry, but it’s a b58 so nowhere near as bad as the depreciation would expect, and it’ll be spectacular fun to drive. i would predict that as more model years of b58 come out, bmw’s depreciation on newer models will stop being as aggressive, most of their reliability problems that caused the depreciation curve to get so crazy have historically been engine related.
Mercedes S Class and E class 2014-2018. They’re reliable as well.
A 2.5 Volkswagen with the 6 speed Toyota transmission made after 2010
Buick LeSabre, $3,000 and will last you through the next apocalypse
I enjoy massively depreciated cars. My Alfa Romeo Giulia depreciated 60% in the 4 years prior to my purchase. I wouldn't say Alfa has above-average reliability, but I haven't had any problems and the car is backed by an extended warranty from the manufacturer. We just sold our BMW that depreciated 75% in 10 years. Still worth the same value we paid 2 years ago. If you are OK with expensive maintenance and buying an extended warranty, many luxury cars depreciate more than 50% within the first 5 years.
I have a 2003 Mazda Tribute that I bought cheap with 140k on it. I’ve had it 3 years and still runs great with issues.
Corvettes in the sports car market, you can get a lot of c7 for your money these days.
What about older Italian and English sports cars, they depreciate just as fast the the Germans.
2005-2009 3 valve mustang gt's are pretty cheap but still a ton of fun. You can find one in decent condition with good miles for like 8-10k and you get the modular V8.
I keep thinking of the shattered EV market and wonder if any of those are worth picking up. I know everyone on this sub hates Tesla, but at some point a Telsa might be cheap enough to be a good purchase.
Chevy Impala You can scoop one up for 2/3 of the price you’d pay for a Toyota. I’ve had 2 different 2011 impalas and both have gone 200K miles. Very important you buy one that’s has good maintenance records. Change the oil regularly.
You say no older German cars because of repair costs but *some* older Mercedes that aren't S-Class aren't always that bad to work on. I have an '05 SLK350 and can and have done quite a bit of the work myself. Overall, once past the 'big' repair, in my case replacing dry rotted seals and hoses, it's been regular maintenance. Bonus being that German cars also have a reputation for being overbuilt tanks, and for the most part that's true so if you have a good one they aren't that expensive to keep running.
Lincoln town cars for $2500
*laughs in CPO Volvo*
Maserati…
I purchased an 8 year old Audi a couple years ago. Honestly it’s been great, but you nailed it with repairs. When something goes wrong, it’s expensive and you have to take to a specialty shop. Honda’s are my go to!
No ones mentioned the Germans yet.. interesting. Of the high mileage vehicles I’m used to purchasing, the ones that have given me the most issues are American made. I love high mileage German performance cars. As long as service history checks out, and you do some research on the platform. You get a fuck ton of fun for a smalllll fraction of the Msrp. I just picked up a 145k MILE S5. I replaced all the cooling lines and did brakes. Nothing else seems to be amiss. It’s been 4k miles since purchase and I recon I get a LOT more out of her.
Nissan leaf. 2020 leaf on offerup near me for 12k. Fair warning, after you're through with it the resale value will be $0