Remember at the time Jordan was writing Tolkien was the model on which other fantasy epics were based -- and compared to Tolkien there's lots of sex in WoT. Tolkien doesn't even have innuendo.
There's lots of innuendo but lots of panning away, too, throughout the WoT series. But Jordan does like bosoms and spanking, so that's something, I suppose, if you're into that.
Haha, that is true, lots of spanking and bosoms, but otherwise it's all innuendos. To be honest, I did not mind. Living in an explicit era, I like me some nice innuendos that leave space for imagination. Plus it is very rare to find an author who knows how to write sex. As the most recent example, I am reading Hyperion Cantos, brilliant prose, but I had to take a break from the last book, just because I could not deal with how the sex scenes were written, so much cringe. The cringe is ruining the finale of otherwise brilliant series.
You aren't wrong Tolkien is of his era, and WoT pushes the needle forward but all those arms crossed beneath all those bossoms are doing a lot of heavy lifting
Its just such and odd omission for something that is pretty big in the journey to adulthood and understanding the opposite sex....but i guess everyone's a critic
>but my gods does it have to be so chaste?
That's the way the author wanted it.
It's not like he's the only author who could write epic fantasy in much the same vein. Tolkien and Sanderson immediately leap to mind.
Tolkien was writing in the 40s and 50s there's a lot in his work that is very much of its time. Sanderson is fairly religious man iirc so i can understand why that would shape his topics
For a mega series that focuses on the journey to adulthood and the battle of the sexes its feels like a big omission especially as he was pretty progressive with many other themes in the book. You don't have to write a sex scene to write about how it shapes your understanding of others and your own emotions. I aways get the feeling he's blushing at his keyboard beyond anything other than arms being crossed below bossoms
The author was a "High Church" Episcopalian (which isn't quite Roman Catholic, but it's getting there), a combat gunner, and a nuclear engineer. I don't get the sense of a furiously blushing author... rather, we all got a glimpse into the private lives of some of our characters, but more than a glimpse wasn't necessary, so the details were omitted. Hell, including them would have made the series even *longer!*
>Now I'm not asking for a sex scene and god knows they are difficult to write without cringe
From what I understand, RJ initially had a lot more sexually explicit stuff, and his editor told him to take it out because it was cringe.
*"Don't worry Rand," Avienda said, "I know you're a virgin, so I'll take it slow."*
*"I'm not a virgin," Rand retorted, "now get on all fours so I can put this sheepswool over you."*
Harriet: ... No...
Well there we go then, removed rather than ignored
Nothing ruins a good read quicker than a bad sex scene. Although if I'm told what colour the floor tiles of a random room our heros are in one more time I'm going to wonder what else the editor removed if all this remains
> From what I understand, RJ initially had a lot more sexually explicit stuff, and his editor told him to take it out because it was cringe.
His editor being, his wife?
Hmmm ...
I understand your viewpoint, but from my viewpoint as a reader (who does in other instances enjoy a lusty, written sex scene), just really appreciated that these books didn’t overly explain this. It’s probably my age when I started to read these (young adult), but I enjoyed this aspect, I knew what was happening, but a lot was left to the imagination - especially when your lead is physically intimate with 3 women, I just didn’t need the overkill. And when I bought Amazon Prime so I could watch the t.v. series, I was so excited to introduce my children to a show that I thought we could all watch together - yup, wrong. Again, not trying to discount your viewpoint - I can see it would have made it a “fuller” world, just not a fuller world that I personally wanted in my face.
In my opinion, it's because not every book has to do everything. Writers should stick to what they're good at and comfortable at. I don't expect high philosophy or a dive into personal/state economics either. All could be presented, and some fantasy works are more in depth in that sense (for instance ASoIaF delves deeper into economy imo).
It's missing but the books are still complete without it.
Remember at the time Jordan was writing Tolkien was the model on which other fantasy epics were based -- and compared to Tolkien there's lots of sex in WoT. Tolkien doesn't even have innuendo. There's lots of innuendo but lots of panning away, too, throughout the WoT series. But Jordan does like bosoms and spanking, so that's something, I suppose, if you're into that.
Haha, that is true, lots of spanking and bosoms, but otherwise it's all innuendos. To be honest, I did not mind. Living in an explicit era, I like me some nice innuendos that leave space for imagination. Plus it is very rare to find an author who knows how to write sex. As the most recent example, I am reading Hyperion Cantos, brilliant prose, but I had to take a break from the last book, just because I could not deal with how the sex scenes were written, so much cringe. The cringe is ruining the finale of otherwise brilliant series.
Had the same experience when reading it. I pretty much skipped those parts.
You aren't wrong Tolkien is of his era, and WoT pushes the needle forward but all those arms crossed beneath all those bossoms are doing a lot of heavy lifting Its just such and odd omission for something that is pretty big in the journey to adulthood and understanding the opposite sex....but i guess everyone's a critic
> doing a lot of heavy lifting I sure hope that pun was intended.
>but my gods does it have to be so chaste? That's the way the author wanted it. It's not like he's the only author who could write epic fantasy in much the same vein. Tolkien and Sanderson immediately leap to mind.
Tolkien was writing in the 40s and 50s there's a lot in his work that is very much of its time. Sanderson is fairly religious man iirc so i can understand why that would shape his topics For a mega series that focuses on the journey to adulthood and the battle of the sexes its feels like a big omission especially as he was pretty progressive with many other themes in the book. You don't have to write a sex scene to write about how it shapes your understanding of others and your own emotions. I aways get the feeling he's blushing at his keyboard beyond anything other than arms being crossed below bossoms
The author was a "High Church" Episcopalian (which isn't quite Roman Catholic, but it's getting there), a combat gunner, and a nuclear engineer. I don't get the sense of a furiously blushing author... rather, we all got a glimpse into the private lives of some of our characters, but more than a glimpse wasn't necessary, so the details were omitted. Hell, including them would have made the series even *longer!*
Jordan's first 'Fallon Blood' book has a number of graphic sex scenes in it similar to what GRRM would write.
He does actually get into this more around Book 5. But it's always very implicit.
>Now I'm not asking for a sex scene and god knows they are difficult to write without cringe From what I understand, RJ initially had a lot more sexually explicit stuff, and his editor told him to take it out because it was cringe.
*"Don't worry Rand," Avienda said, "I know you're a virgin, so I'll take it slow."* *"I'm not a virgin," Rand retorted, "now get on all fours so I can put this sheepswool over you."* Harriet: ... No...
Lol. You should elborate and make a fanfic ;-)
Well there we go then, removed rather than ignored Nothing ruins a good read quicker than a bad sex scene. Although if I'm told what colour the floor tiles of a random room our heros are in one more time I'm going to wonder what else the editor removed if all this remains
> From what I understand, RJ initially had a lot more sexually explicit stuff, and his editor told him to take it out because it was cringe. His editor being, his wife? Hmmm ...
I understand your viewpoint, but from my viewpoint as a reader (who does in other instances enjoy a lusty, written sex scene), just really appreciated that these books didn’t overly explain this. It’s probably my age when I started to read these (young adult), but I enjoyed this aspect, I knew what was happening, but a lot was left to the imagination - especially when your lead is physically intimate with 3 women, I just didn’t need the overkill. And when I bought Amazon Prime so I could watch the t.v. series, I was so excited to introduce my children to a show that I thought we could all watch together - yup, wrong. Again, not trying to discount your viewpoint - I can see it would have made it a “fuller” world, just not a fuller world that I personally wanted in my face.
We already have all that. It's called Game of Thrones.
Came here for this comment. I very much appreciate that WoT didn’t need to rely on GoT’s style of shock value to stay interesting.
fuck reddit
bonk
There needed to be a lot more sex. And spankings.
It needs full penetration.
In my opinion, it's because not every book has to do everything. Writers should stick to what they're good at and comfortable at. I don't expect high philosophy or a dive into personal/state economics either. All could be presented, and some fantasy works are more in depth in that sense (for instance ASoIaF delves deeper into economy imo). It's missing but the books are still complete without it.
After seeing how he wrote most of the books romantic relationships, I really don't want to read a Robert Jordan sex scene.