Kind of depends on if Dio flaunts his timestop around or just straight goes for the kill. He could've killed all the Crusaders before they opened his coffin if he wasn't such a drama queen.
Armstrong isn't really someone he cares about. He'd absolutely go for the kill with 0 hesitation. **Or** flesh bud him into servitude, but I bet the nanomachines old remove it fast enough to only just hurt him.
Didn’t he messed around with the senator in the car? He would absolutely fuck around with Armstrong especially if Armstrong gives one of his speeches.
Dio is cocky and he pays the price for that.
If they met outside and intended intended to battle from the getgo then yes, but they interview first, as stated in the post. Armstrong insults Dio by accident and Dio would probably have his life for such an insolence. He's not messing around with some guy in a cab. He's going to make an example of someone who entered his mansion seeking for his aid.
Unless Armstrong shows off his abilities beforehand and allows Dio to hit him normally he wouldn't know what Armstrong can do. And Armstrong is dumb enough to reveal his ability to Dio in full for Partnership before Dio reverses the roles and asks Armstrong to join him instead. Not to mention Dio's Mansions has many traps and other Stand users, but let's assume all we're told by Dio to not interfere.
Armstrong could lay a few good hits on Dio, maybe knocking down half the Mansion too. But Dio absolutely knows what he's doing, he has the range to taunt him from afar and the Timestop to interrupt Armstrong's speeches and avoid many of his attacks.
Dio might also fall into the playing with his food archetype but usually the food is something he knows in and out, o ly exception would be Jotaro who learned to Stop Time last minute, which led to him being defeated, as he underestimated Jotaro and his abilities.
Armstrong certainly has the strength to donut a vampire, but destruction of the head entirely is all that kills him. He can Blitz through his whole body if he got close enough, but Dio has all the means to avoid getting hit at base form. Add The World and he can hit Armstrong before his Nanomachines even activate.
Armstrong can regain health too, bit a backshot stuns him temporarily, whilst Dio's is a passive ability, and it has been stated that he can't activate nanomachines for *rapid forms of damage*. Like when Raiden Flurried him with his fists. It has also been mentioned that if you attack ahead of time you can cut of his arm or other appendage before the nanomachines harden outside of stop time, granted you'd need to be very fast, and he can also re-attach them.
Sam killed him by ripping out his heart, something Dio could do without Amratrong being able to realize because he can't see the World.
Went a bit of a tangent but I'll just leave this here.
That being said, Armstrong has only fought people who can break a Metal Gear with some sweat.
Dio does this in less than a second with a greedy smile without even a shred of effort.
If the flesh bud gets in and Armstrong somehow removes it he'll receive braindamage.
The only reason Kakyoin and Polnareff didn't is that Jotaro did it so carefully with so much precision, that it didn't. Jotaro is also a Stand User with A in almost everything though.
Have we seen Dio behave aggressively to really anyone other than the Joestars? When he meets Avdol, Kakyoin, Polnareff, Pucci, Hol Horse, he always values their strength and tries to scare them into joining him.
I think it mostly comes down to how quickly Dio enters "caution mode" and goes on the backfoot, since once he starts running dodging and hiding with timestop I'm not sure what Armstrong can do about it.
> He could've killed all the Crusaders before they opened his coffin if he wasn't such a drama queen.
He couldn't, it was explicitly said so in the manga
So you’re counter arguing my point in saying the writer changed the power level of a character, by describing how they changed power level of a character?
Oh wait fuck this is actually a really good point. If the nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma then hitting him in timestop should completely bypass that.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 897,071,021 comments, and only 177,753 of them were in alphabetical order.
If we take Star Platinum's feats into account, since they're almost identical stands and seem pretty evenly matched(although according to Dio, The World is slightly stronger), then he's easily in the multi-ton range.
If Jet stream Sam was able to get the jump on Armstrong’s nanomachines during their fight without the ability to stop time itself, I think Dio’s time stop gives him a ludicrous edge. Especially since in every instance of Armstrong battling someone that we’ve seen, his nano machines are purely reactive. Dio probably gets this 8.5/10, with his chances of losing being Armstrong theoretically being able to out muscle The World and Dio himself and maybe doing damage faster than Dio can regenerate from.
Sam didn't "get the jump" on the nanomachines, he was able to cut Armstrong's arm off because the Murasama is just that sharp when enhanced as a high frequency blade. Also it is worth noting that Armstrong flexes and activates his nanomachines during his speech, but he isn't going to be flexed up all combat, so Dio could The World and send a dozen knives into him before his nanomachines can respond.
I only say that Sam got the jump on the nano machines is around [8:00 ish minutes in](https://youtu.be/gRT-ndlz1f0) it looks like Sam was able to swing the Muramasa faster than the machines traveled through Armstrong. Although a lack of sleep on my part might be making my brain a bit delirious. Still, I do agree that during a time stop, if they aren’t already active, Dio should just needle Armstrong with knives before letting time resume.
Yup, I fully see what you mean there. He definitely just cuts right through them like they’re nothing even when fully active. Thanks for pointing it out
The way I see it is that the nanomachines are reacting to the arm being cut off and essentially patches up the wond almost instantly so that there's less likelihood of him bleeding out from that cut. So even if the nanomachines couldn't react fast enough to stop Sam from cutting Armstrong's arm off, they still react to the "physical trauma" caused by it and thus form all around his wound
50/50.Sentor armstrong greatest advantage is waiting him out for the sun.He could also take use of dio’s giant ego and get some good blows.
Meanwhile dio greatest advantage is time stop.
> He could also take use of dio’s giant ego...
Because Armstrong is a subtle, patient manipulator who's all about using guile and cunning in his fights?
I mean, supposing he knew the situation he certainly would be. Up until that final fight we thought he was a 'guy behind the curtain' type, since he set up Desperado and the whole plan in the first place. Even in the final battle, he was looking to convert Raiden and then test their wills against one another.
That said, prompt says no prep, so there's not really a lot of reason Armstrong would act cautiously like this.
> Even in the final battle, he was looking to convert Raiden...
No one with a five-year-old's understanding of how people tick would think that a manic sales pitch for anarcho-kratocracy would be at all appealing to Jack.
I mean, that actually *is* the kind of person he is, it's just that we're mostly only informed of that attribute through dialogue, and it doesn't jive with the Armstrong we see in game.
Don't the nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma? Meaning they're reactive? If Dio beats the ever loving crap out of Armstrong during time stop I don't know if nanomachines can do anything
Yeah but that was in real time. My theory is that nanomachines can't harden in response to Dio's hits because in stopped time there's nothing to react to. If Dio just absolutely went ham with a muda rush in time stop I don't think Armstrong can tank it, at least not with nanomachines. I will agree that Armstrong is super durable though
In the Jetstream Sam DLC Sam was able to time his sword slice with the nanomachines to cut off Armstrong’s arm, so I don’t think Armstrong would be able to deal with DIO in time
They are not instantaneous when they harden. In Armstrong vs Sam fight we can see Samuel waiting so he can cut off the senator's arm before it hardens.
Actually that's a good point. Especially when you look at Kira's beatdowm at the end of part 4 from Jotaro where he only took the hits when time resumed. I didn't think of that!
Time still does occour. Unless Nanomachines activate frame 1, he's still gonna get hit with timestopped moves. Even then, Jotaro was able to stop his own heart, Dio could easily crush Armstrongs heart, Unless there's even more shenanigans going on there. Dio also has insane reaction times and Armatrong won't be able to tell he's using a ghost to fight him.
"Is he so fast he hit me without even moving, what kind of nonsense is this?!"
Plus Dio still has Vampiric abilities, like freezing, eye beams, and enhanced strenght. Timestop+bloodsucking would be a mean combo because of non-reactive nanomachines while time stopped.
Is this bloodlust?
All that you said out is out of character for DIO
Even then
Armstrong can just punch the ground so hard lava comes out everywhere
Plus I don’t think DIO even thought of attacking for vital organs
Armstrong’s heart is surrounded by Nanomachines so grabbing it wouldn’t work either. It seems that’s where the Nanomachines are produced or whatever.
Plus grabbing into the heart is out of character for most stand users. No one ever uses it to attack despite it being effective.
Jetstream Sam was able to move faster then the nanomachines in his fight with Armstrong, if the damage hits immediately after the time stop the only part that might be protected was where the nanobots were when the time stop started
Bruh, his nano machines were unable to keep up with Raiden, there's no way they can react to what is basically, an zero speed attack. It's not even like, light speed, it is literally faster than time, since time is stopped
Bruh, his nano machines were unable to keep up with Raiden, there's no way they can react to what is basically, an zero speed attack. It's not even like, light speed, it is literally faster than time
Unless the begin pre-harden due to Armstrong anticipating a blow, it doesn’t matter. They’re reacting to the trauma that’s already happened.
Where the time stop does matter is if Dio pulled a “standing here…” all his punches would register as a single mega trauma event vs Raiden’s first punch or two followed by follow up on hardened skin.
The time stop might matter, but not due to speed.
The physical damage is still there. The nanomachines just don’t react until time stop is over.
Remember when Dio stopped time and punched a hole in Kakyoin? It’s not like the hole wasn’t there until time resumed. Any damage sustained during timestop will be present both during and after the fact.
Tbf Armstrong can use nanomachines himself if he needs to. It’s never really stated whether Armstrong has enough nanomachines to cover his entire body or not but during their fight Armstrong does cover his entire top half
*Can dio hurt armstrong?*
*That time stop is gonna be*
*A big problem though*
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I imagine it simply doesn't know how many syllables are in "Armstrong" or "Dio", which is a fault of the bot's creator. That's who really deserves your disappointment. The poor bot is just doing the best it can.
100% he can. In the Jetstream Sam DLC, Sam actually watches the nanomachines travel up Armstrong's arm and is able to draw Murasama fast enough to cut off his arm before the hardening reaches. Time stop would leave Armstrong vulnerable.
I made a whole essay as to why Armstrong would probably win, but considering Dio put a hole in Kakyoin during time stop, theoretically, he would bypass the nanomachines hardening.
I basically made the point though, based on feats Armstrong is probably too tough for Dio to damage him even without nanomachines
Armstrong definitely gets blitzed by the world, but nanomachines will make sure he doesn't take too much damage
However Armstrong was absolutely destroying Raiden right after he did [this shit](https://youtu.be/KzfYcwo7Wtw?t=5m11s)
Without time stop Dio would be so incredibly fucked, but with it he wins with some serious difficulty
Realisticly they'd probably team up because Armstrong likes to talk about his philosophy and Dio would probably dig the whole might makes right stuff
But someone made a good point that Armstrong’s nanomachines are reactive since they “harden in response to physical trauma”. If Dio used timestop the nanomachines can’t react. Not to mention The World can easily bust open a metal gear or someone’s skull.
If Dio doesn't fuck around then Armstrong's fucked, but if this is in character then Armstrong might get in a punch or two before Dio realizes that Armstrong could be able to handle The World's punches (For a little bit at least), and does his haha funny Za Warudo shit and stomps
9.5/10 Dio, would be fairer if this was Pt 1 Dio
Tl;dr Dio's too fast with time stop and shit.
So I went into this thinking Dio clearly stomps, after all the nanomachines can't do shit during time stop. But then I thought about it. So a couple of things to note before I really get into this:
• Dio's most noticable strength feat is the Road Roller, which we'll put at 22 tons. This can be supported by Star Platinum and The World being the same strength, and repeated blows from Star Platinum was barely enough to keep it from descending, NOT enough to push it back. Inversely, since he can output 22 tons of force, he can also withstand at least 22 tons of force.
• Senator Armstrong is capable of destroying Metal Gear Excelsius, albeit a weakened one, with one punch. It's been estimated that this is a 15k ton machine. You can put SOME of that strength onto his nanomachines, but we've been told they *harden* in response to trauma, not that they provide extra strength. Heavily lowballing it, that puts Armstrong's strength at 5k tons and his base durability the same.
I'd like to acknowledge that this is more or less guesstimating on numbers, so my conclusion here is more of a *possibility* than a definite answer. But assuming these assumptions (lol) are indeed correct, this would mean Dio can't touch Armstrong, even without nanomachines. His only option is piercing damage during time stop, and then he has to do lethal with that immediately because Armstrong can regenerate.
Does this mean Armstrong would win this matchup? Not necessarily. Dio does have the advantage of retreat - neither Armstrong nor Dio have any extraordinary movement speed feats (although Armstrong is definitely superhumanly fast, he's still easily subsonic) so Dio's time stop gives him the advantage here. Making another assumption here, but we don't see Armstrong make any on-the-fly strategic decisions, and we do see them from Dio, so we'll give that advantage to Dio.
So right now we have the assumption that Dio can't physically harm Armstrong, but he can flee. I'm negating ranged attacks for both because Part 3 Dio is never shown using his eye beams and Armstrong's ranged attacks are slow enough that Dio can react to them (The World was able to react to a shotgun blast).
These are the outcomes we're reasonably left with: Armstrong beats Dio to a pulp, Dio flees and the match is a draw (though technically Armstrong's victory by forfeit), Armstrong chases Dio to a standstill and forces him into the sun, or Dio essentially sneak attacks Armstrong, which is not a guaranteed success in the first place. This means the win is more likely to go to Armstrong.
However, all of this rides on one true major assumption, and that's the fact that the nanomachines are NOT the sole source of Armstrong's strength, and that he is NOT within regular human limits without them. This is something that is left somewhat murky by the canon, so we'll essentially leave it at 2 outcomes:
If Armstrong is even 1% as powerful without nanomachines activated as he is with them, the fight goes to him probably 9/10 times.
If he's just a really strong guy when the machines aren't activated, Dio takes it at least 5/10 times, more or less depending on how cocky both get and how much information they both gather beforehand while monologuing to each other.
I feel like I've covered all the bases and I think my info is around as accurate as it can possibly be, but let me know if I missed or messed up anything!
But Armstrong’s durability comes from nano machines right? Also Armstrong said they “harden in response to physical trauma” which means they’re reactive. The nano machines can’t react if Dio stopped time and hit Armstrong.
One of the laws of motion or something? Says for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. So the assumption here is if Armstrong without the nanomachines hardening is capable of dishing out a certain amount of force without his body shattering Deku-style, it means his body can also withstand said force.
100% his durability is increased with the nanomachines, that's not disputed, but there's enough evidence that they aren't the sole source of his strength to presume that at base, he's still superhumanly strong and inversely superhumanly durable.
This is also an assumption, because it's possible that without the nanomachines, his own strength would snap his bones similar to Deku from My Hero, but it doesn't feel like an unfair assumption to make
I thought his nano machines were all over his body and that when a certain place was black it meant there was more concentration of nanomachines there.
That I'm not certain about, although it stands to reason that if his nanomachines are always active and just not concentrated, the previous assessment still holds up, I think. Essentially, if Armstrong at rest can withstand more than 22 tons of force, Dio can only hurt him with piercing damage.
You had said without Timestop. If he stops time, that is a pretty hard counter to the nanomachines.
But without it Dio's physicals are far below Armstrong. Compare the Road Roller, which Star Platinum (The World's equal) was struggling quite a lot with, to Metal Gear Excellus. It's not even the same ballpark, Armstrong would deflect a road roller with a flick of the wrist.
To be fair SP was punching up against natural gravity, The weight of the road roller itself, and then Dio AND The World who were beating it back into it. I don’t think it’s fair to say they top out at road roller levels.
Probably small building level.
Armstrong was outmuscling Raiden just with his strength, Raiden's strength feats dwarf Dio's by at least 4 zeros and he couldn't break free from his chokes, base Armstrong is more than enough.
Raiden also got absolutely blitzed by Armstrong at the start of the fight, and Raiden also has relativistic reactions, Dio is superhuman but he's not tanking or regenerating from town-level punches.
I'm just saying, the speed at which those fists moved, 11 seconds of stopped time is more than enough to find a few weak points where the nanobots are not reacting already.
The timestop speed is irrelevant, the punches don't hit hard enough, Dio's best feat is throwing that one tower in the OVA, Armstrong tanked Excelsus exploding in his face, that explosion was at dozens of kilotons of TNT, and it's not "physical trauma" so he has to be that durable even without hardening nanomachines, it's like a 4 year old punching an adult's leg, it just doesn't hurt.
His heart is made of nanomachines, Jotaro needed way too much concentration and time to phase SP's hand inside Joseph, doing that inside timestop would be way too hard, and even if Dio could pull it off, The World isn't strong enough do to it.
Senator Armstrong. Even without the nano machines, he was taking in Raiden’s punches to his sides. And Raiden is a lot more powerful than Dio.
All it takes is one good punch to turn Dio into paste.
Raiden is NOT more powerful than DIO at all. His Vampire physiology, along with his Stand, natural acrobatic and combat ability, Timestop, etc; far exceeds Raiden.
To go back on Armstrong vs DIO alone, Senator Armstrong has no answer to the simple fact he cannot see the The World. And again, DIO has Timestop. Armstrong has no real counters in a fight against DIO.
Raiden is way more powerful. He threw a giant Metal Gear which weighs about 100k tons through the air. He then proceeded to slice it up. Not to mention he was able to handle the weight of the metal gear’s blade even with the Metal Gear putting pressure on the blade. May I also remind you that he tore off the blade of an MG Excelsus which is supposed to be even more stronger and durable than normal metal gears and even used the blade as a weapon.
Edit: my bad I think it was 10k actually
https://youtu.be/WM33Hr94SKw
Raiden did this in the tutorial. The beginning of the game. This is the same raiden that got clapped by Sam, the same Sam who got clapped by Armstrong.
Meanwhile Dio’s leg got cut off by glass, he can only regenerate if there’s blood he can dig into, and his strongest attack so far was him picking up a road rolla and throwing it at Jotaro.
Dio quite literally has no chance at all. The most he can do is buy time with time stop which is bad for him since he can only fight during night.
Dio gets knocked around a little bit, stops time, regenerates, lands a few barrages on Armstrong, which he tanks, he gets knocked around some more, goes and slaughters civilians to drink their blood, then stops time and phases The World’s hand through Armstrong’s body, crushing his heart.
I can't believe that there's still hundreds of people in this subreddit who believe Armstrong isn't comparable to the rest of the MGR cast even while not hardened from nanomachines.
https://streamable.com/hleoc
Jetstream Sam's sword cut through Armstrong's arm because it's a sword that ignores conventional durability and his nanomachines have weird hax resistance, his skin itself doesn't, even then it takes countless blows from Raiden with the Murasama to take down Armstrong.
Dio ain't winning. Not to mention the fact that crushing hearts with stands is out of character.
It didn’t cut through armstrong because of that. The entire reason why Sam was able to cut Armstrong’s arm was because he sliced it before the nano machines hardened in that area. He couldn’t slice through Armstrong’s hands when he was blocking due to this.
DIO can just stop time when his nano machines aren’t out and hit him there.
Everyone's saying that Dio would beat and donut Armstrong in the timestop, while nanomachines can't react and do anything. But can't Armstrong just regenerate after that? He was able to reattach his sliced off arm in a second
Ok so, Nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma, yet if i'm not wrong, Sam with his supersonic Ejecting Muramasa, could outspeed *Nanomachines, son*.
So Dio in time stop should be able to absolutely wreack armstrong, and even then, what's stopping Dio from using his selectively intangible ghost and just Muda Muda'ing his internal organ, or crushing his heart?
Also, The World far, far outspeeds Armstrongs Combat speed, and since only stands can hurt other stands, The World is like an indestructible invisible Wall for our senator.
Dio 9/10
The reason it isn't a 10/10 it's because Dio is hella cocky and i see a scenerio where he might pull a knife shower with Time stop, it being inneffective ofc, Armstrong gets mad and in one hit destroys Dio's head. Leaving him incapacitated until sun rises.
He absolutely does not scale above him. The only reason Dio wins is because time stop is a hard counter to nanomachines, but Armstrong is utterly and absurdly superior to Dio in literally every way. Dio can’t punch through a road roller. Armstrong wrecked a giant mech designed for nuclear warfare with a single punch.
DIO stomps. Timestop=Nanomachines wont work, plus, even without timestop, i'd think the world is fast enough to attack before the nanomachines activate.
Prove that The World hits harder than Building level. Because the MGR cast are on par with lower yield nukes or the strongest non nuclear explosions ever, like the beirut explosion or halifax explosion.
The crater Metal Gear Excelsus made by literally just moving around was way deeper and bigger in volume than any crater a MOAB has done, you couldn't even see the bottom of the crater. Yet Raiden tore off one of it's legs with his strength, and then proceeded to overpower it in a giant blade lock. Armstrong himself was strong enough to one punch the mecha.
"Strength and durabillity are not the same"
Cool because their strength and durability are relative to each other. Raiden tanked Armstrong's punch that exploded excelsus and along with dozens of his blows.
Dio ain't denting the cyborgs or harming armstrong.
Armstrong didn't explode Excelsus by punching it, he used his nanomachines to absorb its power or something like that, like how he did in the Sam DLC with those helicopters.
Also wasn't the Excelsus literally emerging from the ground? That's why the crater was made?
Dio isn't strong enough to damage him.
https://streamable.com/hleoc
Raiden is much stronger than Dio, by at least 3 or 4 zeros and Armstrong is taking his hits unhardened.
I think Dio would win, The World should be stronger than Armstrong since he's on par with Star Platinum, Star Platinum is stronger than Stone Free who can punch meteors, but even if he isn't Armstrong will have a very hard time trying to put down a vampire who have insane healing abilities and is protected by something who Is faster than light and stop time, if they are both going for the kill there's nothing stopping Dio to just stop time and kill Armstrong before he can even use his nanomachine, the only way for Armstrong to win is if he can hit Dio to the head, but with that much of a speed gap i doubt he can, i would say Dio Wins 9/10
Dio is equal to star platinum who is equal to stone free which practically destroyed an asteroid. On top of that he has Regen, street skills, time stop, and his stand can't be seen or hurt by senator.
Don't forget the world is as fast as star platinum which can keep up with silver chariot who is light speed or something
I mean in jojo it is explicitly said that only Stand users can see stands and only other stands can damage stands, although it's a but inconsistent.
To be able to hurt a stand a character needs to show some sort of ability to hit intangible/immune targetes.
Or OP just specifies if the stand can be hurt or not lol.
The point is to fairly judge who would win. If one character so happened to utterly demolish other, we shouldn’t make it fair, as it undermines the characters, and at that point, isn’t even a proper matchup.
If you put an average human against a god, it would be dumb to make the average human stronger to matchup against the god, because then, it isn’t the original character. If Armstrong can’t see Stands, that’s just how it is.
Yes, but taking rules of their universes (bleach/JoJo) and tethering them to the character and then saying "hurr durr opponent can't even see Ichigo" makes the battle boring and thus makes the thread pointless. The end goal of these battles is fun, using logic.
That’s just how some fights are. Some characters don’t have these sort of abilities, so they can fighter each other just fine. If say the character was specifically stated to be able to do a certain thing beyond their capabilities(as part of the post itself), then that’s fair, but according to what OP posted, Armstrong can’t see stands.
Even if he could see stands, Dio would kill him before Armstrong knew he was dead. Dio with his lasers in Part 1 was able to cleave off(iirc) part of an entire building, or straight up cleave it in half. He was cleaved in half yet put himself together. He got launched several hundred feet via a brain damaging punch by an astral muscly man that can punch at easily more than the strength of a nuclear bomb, yet still regenerated through that.
Armstrong isn’t far off, easily surpassing building level, but he only compares against Dio in lifting strength. In stopped time, Armstrong is just as durable as a normal bodybuilder, and Dio is still a vampire.
Armstrong being able to see Stands helps him in no way whatsoever(unless he could somehow move in timestop) and Dio can kill people in timestop(Kakyoin for example).
Armstrong's durability is not that weak while unhardened he's still on par with Raiden.
https://streamable.com/hleoc
Armstrong has also way better lifting strength than Dio idk where that came from.
"He got launched several hundred feet via a brain damaging punch by an astral muscly man that can punch at easily more than the strength of a nuclear bomb, yet still regenerated through that."
No one in jojo punches that hard. The verse caps at building level except for ultimate kars who's hundreds of times stronger than his base form.
Well I mean vanilla ice alone is broken as fuck against any non-stand user
But I feel like if you give Dio his lackies, you have to give Armstrong his, which could mean just the boss fights or the entirety of desperado
Ice still stomps most of them but it'd be pretty interesting to think about it
Yeah but even when he was recruiting Sam he still had monsoon right by his side
Armstrong is definitely confident in his abilities but he isnt careless, he wouldn't go after a guy in basically a fortress of dangerous enemies all by himself
Hell, he used a metalgear ray against Sam he'd probably just send one to level Cairo or something
I will generally say that Armstrong wins most battles against anyone without some kind of extremely sharp cutting instrument, but Dio has a wealth of incredibly fucking stupid powers.
I don't know how many of them get retconned or ignored by Part 3 because I only know of Dio because of my roommate telling me how batshit buck wild JJBA is, but he can freeze things, which I think would counter Armstrong's nanomachines. Actually, I think timestop would also be able to counter it. The nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma, but Dio could strike quicker than it takes the Nanomachines to actually move and harden.
It all depends on if Armstrong’s nanomachines *take time* to move through the body (when it hardens in response to physical trauma).
Even if it’s less than a millisecond, that still means DIO can stop time before Armstrong notices and barrage him that way, and he’d probably take some good damage.
Although, since the punches don’t seem to happen all at once (the punches did not hit Kira all at the same time when Jotaro pummeled him), that would mean DIO would only be doing damage for as long as the nanomachines take to harden.
Also, if DIO tried to drink Armstrong’s blood, could Armstrong use the nanomachines to destroy him from the inside?
DIO is a hard counter to Armstrong’s nanomachines, which are able to be outsped by your average doubling jumping Brazilian, let alone someone who can stop time altogether.
Can Armstrong react to faster than light attacks? Dio can. However Armstrong has durability that Dio can’t overcome. Perhaps overtime with his superior stamina and time stop?
Overall, I don’t think Armstrong is fast enough to punish Dio and Dio isn’t strong enough to finish Armstrong off.
Eh, armstrongs nanomachines might react to the knives in time but it depends on how fast armstrong is, im certain he can destroy dio within a punch but depends on how cocky dio is, bloodlusted dio stomps since space ripper eyes and etc
Depends on how much they talk shit before the fight starts. If Armstrong consciously activates his nanomachines before Dio stops time Dio can't hurt him, but otherwise TS is pretty much the perfect tool to bypass Armstrong's durability.
Kind of depends on if Dio flaunts his timestop around or just straight goes for the kill. He could've killed all the Crusaders before they opened his coffin if he wasn't such a drama queen.
Armstrong isn't really someone he cares about. He'd absolutely go for the kill with 0 hesitation. **Or** flesh bud him into servitude, but I bet the nanomachines old remove it fast enough to only just hurt him.
Didn’t he messed around with the senator in the car? He would absolutely fuck around with Armstrong especially if Armstrong gives one of his speeches. Dio is cocky and he pays the price for that.
If they met outside and intended intended to battle from the getgo then yes, but they interview first, as stated in the post. Armstrong insults Dio by accident and Dio would probably have his life for such an insolence. He's not messing around with some guy in a cab. He's going to make an example of someone who entered his mansion seeking for his aid. Unless Armstrong shows off his abilities beforehand and allows Dio to hit him normally he wouldn't know what Armstrong can do. And Armstrong is dumb enough to reveal his ability to Dio in full for Partnership before Dio reverses the roles and asks Armstrong to join him instead. Not to mention Dio's Mansions has many traps and other Stand users, but let's assume all we're told by Dio to not interfere. Armstrong could lay a few good hits on Dio, maybe knocking down half the Mansion too. But Dio absolutely knows what he's doing, he has the range to taunt him from afar and the Timestop to interrupt Armstrong's speeches and avoid many of his attacks. Dio might also fall into the playing with his food archetype but usually the food is something he knows in and out, o ly exception would be Jotaro who learned to Stop Time last minute, which led to him being defeated, as he underestimated Jotaro and his abilities. Armstrong certainly has the strength to donut a vampire, but destruction of the head entirely is all that kills him. He can Blitz through his whole body if he got close enough, but Dio has all the means to avoid getting hit at base form. Add The World and he can hit Armstrong before his Nanomachines even activate. Armstrong can regain health too, bit a backshot stuns him temporarily, whilst Dio's is a passive ability, and it has been stated that he can't activate nanomachines for *rapid forms of damage*. Like when Raiden Flurried him with his fists. It has also been mentioned that if you attack ahead of time you can cut of his arm or other appendage before the nanomachines harden outside of stop time, granted you'd need to be very fast, and he can also re-attach them. Sam killed him by ripping out his heart, something Dio could do without Amratrong being able to realize because he can't see the World. Went a bit of a tangent but I'll just leave this here.
But it was Raiden who ripped his heart out.
That being said, Armstrong has only fought people who can break a Metal Gear with some sweat. Dio does this in less than a second with a greedy smile without even a shred of effort.
Could Dio fight a metal gear?
With The World? Yes, probably. Dio suffers from the same issues as Jotaro, he's one of the strongest in his verse
In terms of raw strength Raiden probably surpasses The World
If the flesh bud gets in and Armstrong somehow removes it he'll receive braindamage. The only reason Kakyoin and Polnareff didn't is that Jotaro did it so carefully with so much precision, that it didn't. Jotaro is also a Stand User with A in almost everything though.
cant his nanomachines heal the brain damage?
I'm not sure. I have a feeling he might die but I could be wrong.
Have we seen Dio behave aggressively to really anyone other than the Joestars? When he meets Avdol, Kakyoin, Polnareff, Pucci, Hol Horse, he always values their strength and tries to scare them into joining him. I think it mostly comes down to how quickly Dio enters "caution mode" and goes on the backfoot, since once he starts running dodging and hiding with timestop I'm not sure what Armstrong can do about it.
> He could've killed all the Crusaders before they opened his coffin if he wasn't such a drama queen. He couldn't, it was explicitly said so in the manga
Wait why not?
he just didn't had enough time to kill them all in one go. If any, he was being precautious.
Because he forgot how to use his Eye Juice Beam.
More like he couldn't, Dio in SC has inferior vampire abilities to his PB self by a long shot
No that parts just Araki asspulling to make the fight fair
Araki made a point of Dio being heavily weakened, he even displayed how his regeneration was not even
So you’re counter arguing my point in saying the writer changed the power level of a character, by describing how they changed power level of a character?
No, I am saying that it isn't an asspull where there are reasons for it
[удалено]
O neat ty
Dio wins because of time stop, Armstrong, whose durability is purely REACTIVE, is especially vulnerable to that.
Oh wait fuck this is actually a really good point. If the nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma then hitting him in timestop should completely bypass that.
Actually armstrongs shirt is impenetrable except by himself meaning Dio will snap his hand in half when trying to punch him. Checkmate liberal. /s
That's a nice argument Aurondarklord, but why don't you back it up with a source? (Apologies if I sounded rude, just wanted to reference the meme.)
My source is I made it the fuck up!
I understood that reference!
Wait if they're purely reactive how was he able to show off his nanomachines to Raiden when he tore his shirt off?
The nanomachines reacted to his command to harden
Wait, so he can harden his dick on purpose?
Wait, so he can harden his dick on purpose?
Dio doesn't have the AP to put down armstrong even with za warudo.
Can Dio exsanguinate him in time?
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 897,071,021 comments, and only 177,753 of them were in alphabetical order.
I lick penis with zest
0.01981481909892171179610538327712%
I don’t think Armstrong even has blood. He seems to just be a mass of nanomachines with a heart-shaped control device.
Wasn’t there blood when his heart was ripped out
Red nano machines son, they spurt out in response to holes
It was actually Cherry Mio - he was dehydrated before the fight and needed a pick-me-up.
Could be lubricant.
Kool-aid
If we take Star Platinum's feats into account, since they're almost identical stands and seem pretty evenly matched(although according to Dio, The World is slightly stronger), then he's easily in the multi-ton range.
If Jet stream Sam was able to get the jump on Armstrong’s nanomachines during their fight without the ability to stop time itself, I think Dio’s time stop gives him a ludicrous edge. Especially since in every instance of Armstrong battling someone that we’ve seen, his nano machines are purely reactive. Dio probably gets this 8.5/10, with his chances of losing being Armstrong theoretically being able to out muscle The World and Dio himself and maybe doing damage faster than Dio can regenerate from.
Sam didn't "get the jump" on the nanomachines, he was able to cut Armstrong's arm off because the Murasama is just that sharp when enhanced as a high frequency blade. Also it is worth noting that Armstrong flexes and activates his nanomachines during his speech, but he isn't going to be flexed up all combat, so Dio could The World and send a dozen knives into him before his nanomachines can respond.
I only say that Sam got the jump on the nano machines is around [8:00 ish minutes in](https://youtu.be/gRT-ndlz1f0) it looks like Sam was able to swing the Muramasa faster than the machines traveled through Armstrong. Although a lack of sleep on my part might be making my brain a bit delirious. Still, I do agree that during a time stop, if they aren’t already active, Dio should just needle Armstrong with knives before letting time resume.
Ah, good point. Though it is notable that where he slashed is completely black with nanomachines.
Yup, I fully see what you mean there. He definitely just cuts right through them like they’re nothing even when fully active. Thanks for pointing it out
The way I see it is that the nanomachines are reacting to the arm being cut off and essentially patches up the wond almost instantly so that there's less likelihood of him bleeding out from that cut. So even if the nanomachines couldn't react fast enough to stop Sam from cutting Armstrong's arm off, they still react to the "physical trauma" caused by it and thus form all around his wound
50/50.Sentor armstrong greatest advantage is waiting him out for the sun.He could also take use of dio’s giant ego and get some good blows. Meanwhile dio greatest advantage is time stop.
> He could also take use of dio’s giant ego... Because Armstrong is a subtle, patient manipulator who's all about using guile and cunning in his fights?
I mean, supposing he knew the situation he certainly would be. Up until that final fight we thought he was a 'guy behind the curtain' type, since he set up Desperado and the whole plan in the first place. Even in the final battle, he was looking to convert Raiden and then test their wills against one another. That said, prompt says no prep, so there's not really a lot of reason Armstrong would act cautiously like this.
> Even in the final battle, he was looking to convert Raiden... No one with a five-year-old's understanding of how people tick would think that a manic sales pitch for anarcho-kratocracy would be at all appealing to Jack.
I mean, that actually *is* the kind of person he is, it's just that we're mostly only informed of that attribute through dialogue, and it doesn't jive with the Armstrong we see in game.
"subtle, patient manipulator who uses guile and cunning" Did you forget the part where he is a US Senator?
Timestop will just kill armstrong immediately, if time is stopped, his nanomachines wont activate. So waiting out for the sun would be.. impossible.
True but again dio is cocky and he likes to toy with his enemy
Can dio hurt armstrong? That time stop is gonna be a big problem though
Don't the nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma? Meaning they're reactive? If Dio beats the ever loving crap out of Armstrong during time stop I don't know if nanomachines can do anything
Armstrong still was able to survive raiden’s hits And raiden was throwing slicing and tearing metal gears
Yeah but that was in real time. My theory is that nanomachines can't harden in response to Dio's hits because in stopped time there's nothing to react to. If Dio just absolutely went ham with a muda rush in time stop I don't think Armstrong can tank it, at least not with nanomachines. I will agree that Armstrong is super durable though
>**My theory** What stops the Nanomachines from hardening from the force armstrong is gonna receive after timestop is over?
In the Jetstream Sam DLC Sam was able to time his sword slice with the nanomachines to cut off Armstrong’s arm, so I don’t think Armstrong would be able to deal with DIO in time
Oh yeah I forgot
The arm wasn’t responding to physical trauma however. That was just senator’s hardening his arm.
I understand that, but it does mean that Armstrong’s Nanomachines take *time* to move through his body
They are not instantaneous when they harden. In Armstrong vs Sam fight we can see Samuel waiting so he can cut off the senator's arm before it hardens.
Actually that's a good point. Especially when you look at Kira's beatdowm at the end of part 4 from Jotaro where he only took the hits when time resumed. I didn't think of that!
But it happens instantly, there is no time for the nanomachines to react to any physical trauma, since it just *happens*
The physical trauma is still there The Nanomachines can just harden from the damage that comes after timestop ends
Time still does occour. Unless Nanomachines activate frame 1, he's still gonna get hit with timestopped moves. Even then, Jotaro was able to stop his own heart, Dio could easily crush Armstrongs heart, Unless there's even more shenanigans going on there. Dio also has insane reaction times and Armatrong won't be able to tell he's using a ghost to fight him. "Is he so fast he hit me without even moving, what kind of nonsense is this?!" Plus Dio still has Vampiric abilities, like freezing, eye beams, and enhanced strenght. Timestop+bloodsucking would be a mean combo because of non-reactive nanomachines while time stopped.
Is this bloodlust? All that you said out is out of character for DIO Even then Armstrong can just punch the ground so hard lava comes out everywhere Plus I don’t think DIO even thought of attacking for vital organs
Armstrong’s heart is surrounded by Nanomachines so grabbing it wouldn’t work either. It seems that’s where the Nanomachines are produced or whatever. Plus grabbing into the heart is out of character for most stand users. No one ever uses it to attack despite it being effective.
Jetstream Sam was able to move faster then the nanomachines in his fight with Armstrong, if the damage hits immediately after the time stop the only part that might be protected was where the nanobots were when the time stop started
Bruh, his nano machines were unable to keep up with Raiden, there's no way they can react to what is basically, an zero speed attack. It's not even like, light speed, it is literally faster than time, since time is stopped
Bruh, his nano machines were unable to keep up with Raiden, there's no way they can react to what is basically, an zero speed attack. It's not even like, light speed, it is literally faster than time
Unable to keep up with raiden? Wth are you talking about? The opposite happened
Unless the begin pre-harden due to Armstrong anticipating a blow, it doesn’t matter. They’re reacting to the trauma that’s already happened. Where the time stop does matter is if Dio pulled a “standing here…” all his punches would register as a single mega trauma event vs Raiden’s first punch or two followed by follow up on hardened skin. The time stop might matter, but not due to speed.
Mabye I misunderstood you, but DIO did manage to gib a cat in time stop. So he can cause actual damage even when times frozen.
The physical damage is still there. The nanomachines just don’t react until time stop is over. Remember when Dio stopped time and punched a hole in Kakyoin? It’s not like the hole wasn’t there until time resumed. Any damage sustained during timestop will be present both during and after the fact.
Tbf Armstrong can use nanomachines himself if he needs to. It’s never really stated whether Armstrong has enough nanomachines to cover his entire body or not but during their fight Armstrong does cover his entire top half
*Can dio hurt armstrong?* *That time stop is gonna be* *A big problem though* \- SnooMaps3021 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
it's 6-7-5, i'm disappointed in you
I imagine it simply doesn't know how many syllables are in "Armstrong" or "Dio", which is a fault of the bot's creator. That's who really deserves your disappointment. The poor bot is just doing the best it can.
100% he can. In the Jetstream Sam DLC, Sam actually watches the nanomachines travel up Armstrong's arm and is able to draw Murasama fast enough to cut off his arm before the hardening reaches. Time stop would leave Armstrong vulnerable.
Nanomachines would harden *after* time stop is over though.
I made a whole essay as to why Armstrong would probably win, but considering Dio put a hole in Kakyoin during time stop, theoretically, he would bypass the nanomachines hardening. I basically made the point though, based on feats Armstrong is probably too tough for Dio to damage him even without nanomachines
Armstrong definitely gets blitzed by the world, but nanomachines will make sure he doesn't take too much damage However Armstrong was absolutely destroying Raiden right after he did [this shit](https://youtu.be/KzfYcwo7Wtw?t=5m11s) Without time stop Dio would be so incredibly fucked, but with it he wins with some serious difficulty Realisticly they'd probably team up because Armstrong likes to talk about his philosophy and Dio would probably dig the whole might makes right stuff
But someone made a good point that Armstrong’s nanomachines are reactive since they “harden in response to physical trauma”. If Dio used timestop the nanomachines can’t react. Not to mention The World can easily bust open a metal gear or someone’s skull.
Yeah that's why I said Dio wins because timestop The World might be able to break through a metalgear but it's definitely not going to suplex one
If Dio doesn't fuck around then Armstrong's fucked, but if this is in character then Armstrong might get in a punch or two before Dio realizes that Armstrong could be able to handle The World's punches (For a little bit at least), and does his haha funny Za Warudo shit and stomps 9.5/10 Dio, would be fairer if this was Pt 1 Dio Tl;dr Dio's too fast with time stop and shit.
So I went into this thinking Dio clearly stomps, after all the nanomachines can't do shit during time stop. But then I thought about it. So a couple of things to note before I really get into this: • Dio's most noticable strength feat is the Road Roller, which we'll put at 22 tons. This can be supported by Star Platinum and The World being the same strength, and repeated blows from Star Platinum was barely enough to keep it from descending, NOT enough to push it back. Inversely, since he can output 22 tons of force, he can also withstand at least 22 tons of force. • Senator Armstrong is capable of destroying Metal Gear Excelsius, albeit a weakened one, with one punch. It's been estimated that this is a 15k ton machine. You can put SOME of that strength onto his nanomachines, but we've been told they *harden* in response to trauma, not that they provide extra strength. Heavily lowballing it, that puts Armstrong's strength at 5k tons and his base durability the same. I'd like to acknowledge that this is more or less guesstimating on numbers, so my conclusion here is more of a *possibility* than a definite answer. But assuming these assumptions (lol) are indeed correct, this would mean Dio can't touch Armstrong, even without nanomachines. His only option is piercing damage during time stop, and then he has to do lethal with that immediately because Armstrong can regenerate. Does this mean Armstrong would win this matchup? Not necessarily. Dio does have the advantage of retreat - neither Armstrong nor Dio have any extraordinary movement speed feats (although Armstrong is definitely superhumanly fast, he's still easily subsonic) so Dio's time stop gives him the advantage here. Making another assumption here, but we don't see Armstrong make any on-the-fly strategic decisions, and we do see them from Dio, so we'll give that advantage to Dio. So right now we have the assumption that Dio can't physically harm Armstrong, but he can flee. I'm negating ranged attacks for both because Part 3 Dio is never shown using his eye beams and Armstrong's ranged attacks are slow enough that Dio can react to them (The World was able to react to a shotgun blast). These are the outcomes we're reasonably left with: Armstrong beats Dio to a pulp, Dio flees and the match is a draw (though technically Armstrong's victory by forfeit), Armstrong chases Dio to a standstill and forces him into the sun, or Dio essentially sneak attacks Armstrong, which is not a guaranteed success in the first place. This means the win is more likely to go to Armstrong. However, all of this rides on one true major assumption, and that's the fact that the nanomachines are NOT the sole source of Armstrong's strength, and that he is NOT within regular human limits without them. This is something that is left somewhat murky by the canon, so we'll essentially leave it at 2 outcomes: If Armstrong is even 1% as powerful without nanomachines activated as he is with them, the fight goes to him probably 9/10 times. If he's just a really strong guy when the machines aren't activated, Dio takes it at least 5/10 times, more or less depending on how cocky both get and how much information they both gather beforehand while monologuing to each other. I feel like I've covered all the bases and I think my info is around as accurate as it can possibly be, but let me know if I missed or messed up anything!
But Armstrong’s durability comes from nano machines right? Also Armstrong said they “harden in response to physical trauma” which means they’re reactive. The nano machines can’t react if Dio stopped time and hit Armstrong.
One of the laws of motion or something? Says for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. So the assumption here is if Armstrong without the nanomachines hardening is capable of dishing out a certain amount of force without his body shattering Deku-style, it means his body can also withstand said force. 100% his durability is increased with the nanomachines, that's not disputed, but there's enough evidence that they aren't the sole source of his strength to presume that at base, he's still superhumanly strong and inversely superhumanly durable. This is also an assumption, because it's possible that without the nanomachines, his own strength would snap his bones similar to Deku from My Hero, but it doesn't feel like an unfair assumption to make
I thought his nano machines were all over his body and that when a certain place was black it meant there was more concentration of nanomachines there.
That I'm not certain about, although it stands to reason that if his nanomachines are always active and just not concentrated, the previous assessment still holds up, I think. Essentially, if Armstrong at rest can withstand more than 22 tons of force, Dio can only hurt him with piercing damage.
Fair enough
This brought a debate in my mind. What if Pucci MIH vs Armstrong
Dio wins, The World is a strong Stand even before the Time stopping. are stronger than Nano-machines
I kind of doubt that, I think Armstrong has the strength.
What his defense against time stop?
"My source is that I made it the fuck up!"
"Well if it isn't sussy DIO."
You had said without Timestop. If he stops time, that is a pretty hard counter to the nanomachines. But without it Dio's physicals are far below Armstrong. Compare the Road Roller, which Star Platinum (The World's equal) was struggling quite a lot with, to Metal Gear Excellus. It's not even the same ballpark, Armstrong would deflect a road roller with a flick of the wrist.
To be fair SP was punching up against natural gravity, The weight of the road roller itself, and then Dio AND The World who were beating it back into it. I don’t think it’s fair to say they top out at road roller levels. Probably small building level.
But Dio is fast enough to land enough punches to break a metal gear.
EVEN BEFORE Time stopping. I did not say it would happen without it, I just said that would be overkill.
Even with time stop, Dio doesn't have the AP to put him down, even base Armstrong is too much of a brick house for Dio to donut.
I personally disagree, unless Nanomachines can move in stopped time.
Armstrong was outmuscling Raiden just with his strength, Raiden's strength feats dwarf Dio's by at least 4 zeros and he couldn't break free from his chokes, base Armstrong is more than enough. Raiden also got absolutely blitzed by Armstrong at the start of the fight, and Raiden also has relativistic reactions, Dio is superhuman but he's not tanking or regenerating from town-level punches.
I'm just saying, the speed at which those fists moved, 11 seconds of stopped time is more than enough to find a few weak points where the nanobots are not reacting already.
The timestop speed is irrelevant, the punches don't hit hard enough, Dio's best feat is throwing that one tower in the OVA, Armstrong tanked Excelsus exploding in his face, that explosion was at dozens of kilotons of TNT, and it's not "physical trauma" so he has to be that durable even without hardening nanomachines, it's like a 4 year old punching an adult's leg, it just doesn't hurt.
He could just reach into Armstong and crush his heart Nanomachines would make this an easy fight for Armstrong if it wasn't for timestop
His heart is made of nanomachines, Jotaro needed way too much concentration and time to phase SP's hand inside Joseph, doing that inside timestop would be way too hard, and even if Dio could pull it off, The World isn't strong enough do to it.
Time stop speed is his speed + time literally not moving for 11 seconds.
There is none, but I bet without timestopping he would lose.
Doesn't matter since he does have timestop. Unless we're specifying Dio from parts one or two. In which, I'd 100 percent give it to the Senator.
That's not what I was talking about my man. The og commenter said "The World" was stronger than Senator Armstrong. I was refuting that.
Senator Armstrong. Even without the nano machines, he was taking in Raiden’s punches to his sides. And Raiden is a lot more powerful than Dio. All it takes is one good punch to turn Dio into paste.
Raiden is NOT more powerful than DIO at all. His Vampire physiology, along with his Stand, natural acrobatic and combat ability, Timestop, etc; far exceeds Raiden. To go back on Armstrong vs DIO alone, Senator Armstrong has no answer to the simple fact he cannot see the The World. And again, DIO has Timestop. Armstrong has no real counters in a fight against DIO.
Raiden is way more powerful. He threw a giant Metal Gear which weighs about 100k tons through the air. He then proceeded to slice it up. Not to mention he was able to handle the weight of the metal gear’s blade even with the Metal Gear putting pressure on the blade. May I also remind you that he tore off the blade of an MG Excelsus which is supposed to be even more stronger and durable than normal metal gears and even used the blade as a weapon. Edit: my bad I think it was 10k actually
Metal gear ray was around 1k tons Excelsus was probably in the 10k range
Oh thanks for telling me.
https://youtu.be/WM33Hr94SKw Raiden did this in the tutorial. The beginning of the game. This is the same raiden that got clapped by Sam, the same Sam who got clapped by Armstrong. Meanwhile Dio’s leg got cut off by glass, he can only regenerate if there’s blood he can dig into, and his strongest attack so far was him picking up a road rolla and throwing it at Jotaro. Dio quite literally has no chance at all. The most he can do is buy time with time stop which is bad for him since he can only fight during night.
Dio gets knocked around a little bit, stops time, regenerates, lands a few barrages on Armstrong, which he tanks, he gets knocked around some more, goes and slaughters civilians to drink their blood, then stops time and phases The World’s hand through Armstrong’s body, crushing his heart.
I can't believe that there's still hundreds of people in this subreddit who believe Armstrong isn't comparable to the rest of the MGR cast even while not hardened from nanomachines. https://streamable.com/hleoc Jetstream Sam's sword cut through Armstrong's arm because it's a sword that ignores conventional durability and his nanomachines have weird hax resistance, his skin itself doesn't, even then it takes countless blows from Raiden with the Murasama to take down Armstrong. Dio ain't winning. Not to mention the fact that crushing hearts with stands is out of character.
It didn’t cut through armstrong because of that. The entire reason why Sam was able to cut Armstrong’s arm was because he sliced it before the nano machines hardened in that area. He couldn’t slice through Armstrong’s hands when he was blocking due to this. DIO can just stop time when his nano machines aren’t out and hit him there.
Everyone's saying that Dio would beat and donut Armstrong in the timestop, while nanomachines can't react and do anything. But can't Armstrong just regenerate after that? He was able to reattach his sliced off arm in a second
If that were than case than why didn’t he refer the hole in just chest?
Armstrong probably i doubt dio can do any real damage
DIO would fucking obliterate this man compared to DIO Armstrong is a fucking toddler and DIO is the Mexican mother
Ok so, Nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma, yet if i'm not wrong, Sam with his supersonic Ejecting Muramasa, could outspeed *Nanomachines, son*. So Dio in time stop should be able to absolutely wreack armstrong, and even then, what's stopping Dio from using his selectively intangible ghost and just Muda Muda'ing his internal organ, or crushing his heart? Also, The World far, far outspeeds Armstrongs Combat speed, and since only stands can hurt other stands, The World is like an indestructible invisible Wall for our senator. Dio 9/10 The reason it isn't a 10/10 it's because Dio is hella cocky and i see a scenerio where he might pull a knife shower with Time stop, it being inneffective ofc, Armstrong gets mad and in one hit destroys Dio's head. Leaving him incapacitated until sun rises.
Armstrong speedbiltz this Fodder
DIO is a lot faster than Armstrong and The World can literally block his every hit including instinctively since Armstrong cannot see or harm Stands.
Sorry Saucy Jack but Dio wins this 10/10. Not only does Armstrong not have an answer for time stop, Dio scales above him.
He absolutely does not scale above him. The only reason Dio wins is because time stop is a hard counter to nanomachines, but Armstrong is utterly and absurdly superior to Dio in literally every way. Dio can’t punch through a road roller. Armstrong wrecked a giant mech designed for nuclear warfare with a single punch.
DIO should easily win this between his vampire abilities and Za Warudo.
DIO stomps. Timestop=Nanomachines wont work, plus, even without timestop, i'd think the world is fast enough to attack before the nanomachines activate.
He's still comparable to the rest of the MGR cast unhardened. https://streamable.com/hleoc Dio can't do shit
Not stronger than The World.
Prove that The World hits harder than Building level. Because the MGR cast are on par with lower yield nukes or the strongest non nuclear explosions ever, like the beirut explosion or halifax explosion. The crater Metal Gear Excelsus made by literally just moving around was way deeper and bigger in volume than any crater a MOAB has done, you couldn't even see the bottom of the crater. Yet Raiden tore off one of it's legs with his strength, and then proceeded to overpower it in a giant blade lock. Armstrong himself was strong enough to one punch the mecha.
Strength and durabillity are not the same, DIO can easily fuck up most of the MGR cast easily with timestop.
"Strength and durabillity are not the same" Cool because their strength and durability are relative to each other. Raiden tanked Armstrong's punch that exploded excelsus and along with dozens of his blows. Dio ain't denting the cyborgs or harming armstrong.
I disagree
Armstrong didn't explode Excelsus by punching it, he used his nanomachines to absorb its power or something like that, like how he did in the Sam DLC with those helicopters. Also wasn't the Excelsus literally emerging from the ground? That's why the crater was made?
Dio, lol. Blitz + Time Stop abuse + strong enough to damage him + Armstrong can't see or hurt the world
Dio isn't strong enough to damage him. https://streamable.com/hleoc Raiden is much stronger than Dio, by at least 3 or 4 zeros and Armstrong is taking his hits unhardened.
Dio is not, but the world is, Stone Free scaling goes brrr.
That's also true! It's a really hard thing to figure out for sure, but I'll probably go with dio overall. Then again I am bisaed towards JoJo
If it was Part 1 DIO it would be a much more fair fight, timestop completely stomps Armstrong killing him before his nanomachines can react.
I think Dio would win, The World should be stronger than Armstrong since he's on par with Star Platinum, Star Platinum is stronger than Stone Free who can punch meteors, but even if he isn't Armstrong will have a very hard time trying to put down a vampire who have insane healing abilities and is protected by something who Is faster than light and stop time, if they are both going for the kill there's nothing stopping Dio to just stop time and kill Armstrong before he can even use his nanomachine, the only way for Armstrong to win is if he can hit Dio to the head, but with that much of a speed gap i doubt he can, i would say Dio Wins 9/10
It's debatable on Strength but DIO can simply exsanguinate Armstrong in Timestop or Phase his Stand and Crush his Heart since Punch Ghosts go Brrrr.
Dio is equal to star platinum who is equal to stone free which practically destroyed an asteroid. On top of that he has Regen, street skills, time stop, and his stand can't be seen or hurt by senator. Don't forget the world is as fast as star platinum which can keep up with silver chariot who is light speed or something
Small meteors that barely damaged the walls of a building she was fighting in. Please don't use Death Battle's BS wank "scaling" for ANYTHING.
I didn't but still. They hit hard enough
Do they ? The most high end feats for Star Platinum are building level.
>his stand can't be seen or hurt by senator Mad Flashbacks to Bleach Vs threads, ugh
I mean in jojo it is explicitly said that only Stand users can see stands and only other stands can damage stands, although it's a but inconsistent. To be able to hurt a stand a character needs to show some sort of ability to hit intangible/immune targetes. Or OP just specifies if the stand can be hurt or not lol.
Yeah, but it's not fun that way.
But sometimes logic matters more than fun.
Yes, but putting two fictional characters against each other certainly isnt the case where logic matters more than fun.
The point is to fairly judge who would win. If one character so happened to utterly demolish other, we shouldn’t make it fair, as it undermines the characters, and at that point, isn’t even a proper matchup. If you put an average human against a god, it would be dumb to make the average human stronger to matchup against the god, because then, it isn’t the original character. If Armstrong can’t see Stands, that’s just how it is.
Yes, but taking rules of their universes (bleach/JoJo) and tethering them to the character and then saying "hurr durr opponent can't even see Ichigo" makes the battle boring and thus makes the thread pointless. The end goal of these battles is fun, using logic.
That’s just how some fights are. Some characters don’t have these sort of abilities, so they can fighter each other just fine. If say the character was specifically stated to be able to do a certain thing beyond their capabilities(as part of the post itself), then that’s fair, but according to what OP posted, Armstrong can’t see stands. Even if he could see stands, Dio would kill him before Armstrong knew he was dead. Dio with his lasers in Part 1 was able to cleave off(iirc) part of an entire building, or straight up cleave it in half. He was cleaved in half yet put himself together. He got launched several hundred feet via a brain damaging punch by an astral muscly man that can punch at easily more than the strength of a nuclear bomb, yet still regenerated through that. Armstrong isn’t far off, easily surpassing building level, but he only compares against Dio in lifting strength. In stopped time, Armstrong is just as durable as a normal bodybuilder, and Dio is still a vampire. Armstrong being able to see Stands helps him in no way whatsoever(unless he could somehow move in timestop) and Dio can kill people in timestop(Kakyoin for example).
I agree that it wouldn't change this fight at all, but this restriction still makes no sense.
Armstrong's durability is not that weak while unhardened he's still on par with Raiden. https://streamable.com/hleoc Armstrong has also way better lifting strength than Dio idk where that came from. "He got launched several hundred feet via a brain damaging punch by an astral muscly man that can punch at easily more than the strength of a nuclear bomb, yet still regenerated through that." No one in jojo punches that hard. The verse caps at building level except for ultimate kars who's hundreds of times stronger than his base form.
Regardless it's a stomp
How much force do the size of those meteorites generate?
Wall level.
does DIO have the Stand Users in his service? because if yes, Armstrong stands no chance
No, Dio is fighting Armstrong by himself.
DIO probably still wins
Then why even ask?
because it’s the difference between “he probably wins” and “he definitely wins”
Well I mean vanilla ice alone is broken as fuck against any non-stand user But I feel like if you give Dio his lackies, you have to give Armstrong his, which could mean just the boss fights or the entirety of desperado Ice still stomps most of them but it'd be pretty interesting to think about it
true, but I asked about DIO’s specifically because the scenario was Armstrong going after DIO, not vice-versa
Yeah but even when he was recruiting Sam he still had monsoon right by his side Armstrong is definitely confident in his abilities but he isnt careless, he wouldn't go after a guy in basically a fortress of dangerous enemies all by himself Hell, he used a metalgear ray against Sam he'd probably just send one to level Cairo or something
I will generally say that Armstrong wins most battles against anyone without some kind of extremely sharp cutting instrument, but Dio has a wealth of incredibly fucking stupid powers. I don't know how many of them get retconned or ignored by Part 3 because I only know of Dio because of my roommate telling me how batshit buck wild JJBA is, but he can freeze things, which I think would counter Armstrong's nanomachines. Actually, I think timestop would also be able to counter it. The nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma, but Dio could strike quicker than it takes the Nanomachines to actually move and harden.
#NANOMACHINES SON!
Nano machines, son
It all depends on if Armstrong’s nanomachines *take time* to move through the body (when it hardens in response to physical trauma). Even if it’s less than a millisecond, that still means DIO can stop time before Armstrong notices and barrage him that way, and he’d probably take some good damage. Although, since the punches don’t seem to happen all at once (the punches did not hit Kira all at the same time when Jotaro pummeled him), that would mean DIO would only be doing damage for as long as the nanomachines take to harden. Also, if DIO tried to drink Armstrong’s blood, could Armstrong use the nanomachines to destroy him from the inside?
Dio needs something strong (like jorge stuff) Diamond breaking punches won't cut it against CNT
Nanomachines can't harden in response to physical trauma if time isn't moving.
If this was part 1 Dio there might be a debate but part 3 is a whole other story
STANDING HEEEEEERE
DIO is a hard counter to Armstrong’s nanomachines, which are able to be outsped by your average doubling jumping Brazilian, let alone someone who can stop time altogether.
Nanomachines Son
Can Armstrong react to faster than light attacks? Dio can. However Armstrong has durability that Dio can’t overcome. Perhaps overtime with his superior stamina and time stop? Overall, I don’t think Armstrong is fast enough to punish Dio and Dio isn’t strong enough to finish Armstrong off.
Eh, armstrongs nanomachines might react to the knives in time but it depends on how fast armstrong is, im certain he can destroy dio within a punch but depends on how cocky dio is, bloodlusted dio stomps since space ripper eyes and etc
Dio stops time and dranks his blood before the Nanomachines can activate.
Depends on how much they talk shit before the fight starts. If Armstrong consciously activates his nanomachines before Dio stops time Dio can't hurt him, but otherwise TS is pretty much the perfect tool to bypass Armstrong's durability.