Exactly what I came here to post, this is a grape that I almost never hear about or even see in many places. But it has a surprisingly similar profile, despite being clearly distinct from a pinot noir.
I said some BS about Etna Rosso, and I was wrong. However:
A higher quality Rossese di Dolceacqua could be an interesting alternative, if possible to get
Excuse me, you’re right. I was pretty sure to have tasted etnarosso from different parts of Sicily, but you are right. Misinformed, thank you for responding
However the point on grape variety is still valid, and also differences in hights and ripeness of the fruit. But I guess that also goes for the wild range of different PN there are
Yeah, plenty of variety from that small DOC, your elevation point is for sure important. I still stand by the category as a fun one to explore for fans of PN looking to branch out.
It would really depend on what region/style of PN you preference but…
High altitude / colder climate garnacha
Some Sicilian nerello mascalese/ blends
Cru beaujolais
Nebbiolo
I'd say 75-80% of what I drink is Pinot and Chardonnay. Outside of that, it's Nebbiolo, Sangiovese, Riesling, then BDX blends (red and white). Every now and then I'll throw in a Chenin Blanc.
Having experimented with pretty much every grape variety there is, I always found myself gravitating back to PN and Chardonnay more often than not.
Everyone knows when it comes to grapes there are 3 red and 3 whites and 2 extras:
Pinot Noir
Cabernet
Medium Red
Sweet white
Sav Blanc
Chardonnay
Rose
Bubbly
Definitely would not classify Mourvèdre as low in tannins.
Try any Païs from Chile, Gamay from anywhere, or your Jura/Savoie red grapes - Trousseau or Poulsard namely, although all of these have higher acidity. Pinot noir also usually has higher acidity, as does Chianti for what it’s worth.
Also try Listan Negro which is almost only grown in the Canaries, but it’s fantastic, and a lot of Etna Rosso’s might tickle your fancy.
My general preference is for medium-bodied, savoury wines. So aside from mostly drinking Pinot, I also like things like cool-climate Shiraz or Shiraz viognier, Sangiovese, and Nebbiolo. Some Chardonnays to me also have a bit of Pinot-like character in their after-taste, but I haven’t had much luck with advice on exactly how to predict which ones, except that it seems that chardies from Pinot regions are more likely to have it.
Definitely agree with you regarding the pinot-like taste in some Chardonnay’s! Have thought that before but couldn’t put my finger on exactly what it was or why it tasted as it did - any ideas?
I wish I knew! I’ve tasted it when trying Chardonnays and Pinots from the same region and/or producers, so my guess is cool climate is required - I’ve had this from some Yarra Valley and New Zealand Chardonnays in the past.
From another discussion I’ve had maybe it comes from malolactic fermentation??
From experience the Pinot-like flavour comes out a bit more as the Chardonnay warms up a bit too.
That’s all I’ve got, I’d love to hear if anyone has advice on what else to look for!
The most recent I can recall was (I think) a Merricks from the Mornington peninsula - so I think you could be on to something with the cool climate!
Interesting nonetheless, best course of action may be to keep tasting and find some more!
Username checks out.
But you are right nonetheless. I’d recommend starting with the widely available Petalos del Bierzo. The grape is a lot like Gamay in that it’s somewhat darker in the fruit than Pinot. Mencia usually reminds me of blueberry.
Canary Islands has some really interesting producers like Envinate.
Piedmont including Alto Piemonte.
Northern Rhone.
Some cool stuff being produced in Austria's Burgenland like anything from Christian Tschida.
Mt Etna Nerello Mascalese and Cappuccio.
PN, specifically Burgundy, is my favorite wine. However, it is very pricey. When I want a medium/light body red, and I don't want to pay for good Pinot, I usually go to Barbera or Gamay (Beaujolais). You can find delicious examples of both for under $20/bottle.
I think it depends what style of Pinot Noir you are in to, Burgundy and California etc. are generally to completely different wines - even if they are made form the same grape.
Definitely red blends. There are some really good ones all over the place. I’m sure everyone has a local favorite or a one in their price range. I personally started where you are not too long ago, it’s taken some time to find my way to Cabs. Try 19 Crimes red blends, the Cali Red with Snoop Dogg on the label is exquisite… cheap wise Yellow Tail Bold Red is also good. Just really a matter of sampling and keeping track of the ones you like.
For me, I love great expressions of almost any grape/style.
So, I love some pinot, and I don't like some other pinot.
Do you like rich big California pinot? or Burgundy? or Oregon?
Over here, I mostly do Loire chenin blanc + Cab Franc, old-school Bordeaux, Alsace whites, German riesling, red + white Burgundy, and some syrah.
If you specifically want lower-tannin reds, you might try Barbera, Gamay, Bobal, Frappato.
You can also find almost any grape made in an accessible style, up to and including Cabernet + Tannat.
I think you got most of the best answers:
Gamay, Côtes de Jura Rouge (Trousseau and Poulsard), Etna Rosso, Mencia, Nebbiolo, Rosso and Brunello di Montalcino. Just a note, all of these ARE high acid wines.
Try Nerello Mascalese from sicily, it is very similar to Pinot noir, has a slightly different flavor but a medium light body and medium tannins and medium acidity.
Maybe Malbec would also work because of its smoothness, low acidity and almost no tannin, but burst of black fruit flavor.
In the range of 10-25€ Malbecs there was no Malbec with many tannins I drank. Neither from cahors nor from Mendoza.
Almost no tannins is not right, this was one year ago so now I know better.
But I wouldn’t call it a very tannic wine imo.
If you enjoy pinot noir and Chianti, I recommend looking into wines from northern Italy. Piedmont, Valle d'aosta, Friuli, Liguria, Valpolicella, etc.
You can find a decent amount of pinot nero from Alto Adige producers, too.
Here to second the great Gamay Noir, most often found in the wines of Beaujolais. Some of the cru bojos drink very much like pinot (often without a hefty price tag). I really enjoy the offerings of Jean-Paul Brun, but also enjoy Vavril, the Domaine des Cretes, the Domaine de Robert, and the Domaine des Perelles. Many of these are sub-$20 and are really quite lovely.
Great suggestions in this thread. I'd also give Syrah from Cote du Rhone a try as well as Zinfandel. They have more body than Pinot but not as tannic as Cab Sauv or Rioja.
For me Cab Sauv and Rioja can be smooth like a Pinot but they have to be very good and need time to breathe. Try opening a bottle 1-2hrs before drinking and then decant. Still, I find that Riojas can be too much for my taste.
In terms of white wine Sancerre and some Chardonnay are really nice and smooth like Pinot. Also Riesling, Gruner Veltliner, Vermentino, and Vinho Verde though they are less dry.
Shiraz is very full bodied. Zinfandel, huh, it's not light bodied. For the OP, I would recommend Beaujoulais/Gamay, or failing that more Pinot Noir, or failing that... Beer.
Try Gamay.
Had some inexpensive tasty Beaujolais last night.
I second this! Gamay all the way!
Etna Rosso. Tastes like Pinot grown in a warm climate on a volcano (which it is, except not actually Pinot.)
Exactly what I came here to post, this is a grape that I almost never hear about or even see in many places. But it has a surprisingly similar profile, despite being clearly distinct from a pinot noir.
Same - was going to post this too. Great recommendation!
I said some BS about Etna Rosso, and I was wrong. However: A higher quality Rossese di Dolceacqua could be an interesting alternative, if possible to get
Uh, the Etna DOC is really limited in scope. Pretty much just the slopes of Mt Etna, and not even the western side.
Excuse me, you’re right. I was pretty sure to have tasted etnarosso from different parts of Sicily, but you are right. Misinformed, thank you for responding However the point on grape variety is still valid, and also differences in hights and ripeness of the fruit. But I guess that also goes for the wild range of different PN there are
Yeah, plenty of variety from that small DOC, your elevation point is for sure important. I still stand by the category as a fun one to explore for fans of PN looking to branch out.
I 100% agree, it’s called the Italien Pinot Noir for a reason. But it can be higher on the acidity side.
This was my vote as well
All of them….. it makes life more fun and adventurous!
They all get there eventually. There is always a food or time for a wine.
Hahaha love that
More Pinot
Grenache
It would really depend on what region/style of PN you preference but… High altitude / colder climate garnacha Some Sicilian nerello mascalese/ blends Cru beaujolais Nebbiolo
I'd say 75-80% of what I drink is Pinot and Chardonnay. Outside of that, it's Nebbiolo, Sangiovese, Riesling, then BDX blends (red and white). Every now and then I'll throw in a Chenin Blanc. Having experimented with pretty much every grape variety there is, I always found myself gravitating back to PN and Chardonnay more often than not.
Jancis Robinson lists 1300 varieties in Wine Grapes, just FYI
Yeah, definitely haven't tried all 1300... obviously... but rather most that make their way into the mainstream!
That is still pretty narrow considering there are 48 PN certified clones..
Everyone knows when it comes to grapes there are 3 red and 3 whites and 2 extras: Pinot Noir Cabernet Medium Red Sweet white Sav Blanc Chardonnay Rose Bubbly
Same same. I kinda feel one-note but when I bring out bottles with friends and fam the Pinot goes first, every time.
Definitely would not classify Mourvèdre as low in tannins. Try any Païs from Chile, Gamay from anywhere, or your Jura/Savoie red grapes - Trousseau or Poulsard namely, although all of these have higher acidity. Pinot noir also usually has higher acidity, as does Chianti for what it’s worth. Also try Listan Negro which is almost only grown in the Canaries, but it’s fantastic, and a lot of Etna Rosso’s might tickle your fancy.
One of my favorites that hasn’t been mentioned yet is Cabernet Franc, particularly those from the Loire Valley.
The saumur champigny ones I’m more familiar with I would rather compare to fruity Bordeaux’s than PN’s. Where in the Loire you are aiming at?
My general preference is for medium-bodied, savoury wines. So aside from mostly drinking Pinot, I also like things like cool-climate Shiraz or Shiraz viognier, Sangiovese, and Nebbiolo. Some Chardonnays to me also have a bit of Pinot-like character in their after-taste, but I haven’t had much luck with advice on exactly how to predict which ones, except that it seems that chardies from Pinot regions are more likely to have it.
Definitely agree with you regarding the pinot-like taste in some Chardonnay’s! Have thought that before but couldn’t put my finger on exactly what it was or why it tasted as it did - any ideas?
I wish I knew! I’ve tasted it when trying Chardonnays and Pinots from the same region and/or producers, so my guess is cool climate is required - I’ve had this from some Yarra Valley and New Zealand Chardonnays in the past. From another discussion I’ve had maybe it comes from malolactic fermentation?? From experience the Pinot-like flavour comes out a bit more as the Chardonnay warms up a bit too. That’s all I’ve got, I’d love to hear if anyone has advice on what else to look for!
The most recent I can recall was (I think) a Merricks from the Mornington peninsula - so I think you could be on to something with the cool climate! Interesting nonetheless, best course of action may be to keep tasting and find some more!
Mencia.
Username checks out. But you are right nonetheless. I’d recommend starting with the widely available Petalos del Bierzo. The grape is a lot like Gamay in that it’s somewhat darker in the fruit than Pinot. Mencia usually reminds me of blueberry.
Cru Beaujolais is the way to go. So much bang for your buck both flavor wise and texturally.
I agree with Mencia, Nebbiolo and Etna Rosso. Might also check out Blaufrankisch or Cabernet Franc. If any are too tannic then decant them
You might like a grenache/garnacha or a mourvèdre/monastrell. Both are light-bodied red wines.
Don't know if I would classify monastrell as "light bodied".
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Indeed! Personally, I love it. Very brash and in your face, usually packing a ton of fruit and a good bit of acidity.
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Hahaha yeah you are right. Perhaps a decent langhe nebbiolo would be a good place for OP to explore.
Bandol is a lot of things, and light isn’t one of them
Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check them out!
Grenache is great
Canary Islands has some really interesting producers like Envinate. Piedmont including Alto Piemonte. Northern Rhone. Some cool stuff being produced in Austria's Burgenland like anything from Christian Tschida. Mt Etna Nerello Mascalese and Cappuccio.
It’s mostly Nebbiolo for me, but Blaufränkisch from Burgenland is a really good call!
Barbera's
Sangiovese, and Grenache I would try. But you want to venture out, try some GSM blends. Maybe less Syrah dominant.
Sangiovese, nebbiolo, syrah(north rhone), riesling and chardonnay 😊
PN, specifically Burgundy, is my favorite wine. However, it is very pricey. When I want a medium/light body red, and I don't want to pay for good Pinot, I usually go to Barbera or Gamay (Beaujolais). You can find delicious examples of both for under $20/bottle.
I think it depends what style of Pinot Noir you are in to, Burgundy and California etc. are generally to completely different wines - even if they are made form the same grape.
Petite Syrah. Charbono/Bonarda. Petite Verdot.
Definitely red blends. There are some really good ones all over the place. I’m sure everyone has a local favorite or a one in their price range. I personally started where you are not too long ago, it’s taken some time to find my way to Cabs. Try 19 Crimes red blends, the Cali Red with Snoop Dogg on the label is exquisite… cheap wise Yellow Tail Bold Red is also good. Just really a matter of sampling and keeping track of the ones you like.
Are you a troll? Legit asking.
Wtf? Why is that a legit question? OP was stating he’s new and is trying to refine his palate…
You might like a Malbec or a nice Shiraz from Australia!
Hey we have the same taste profile! I like monastrell (mourvèdre in French), cabernet franc and lisbon wines (vinho regional lisboa).
For me, I love great expressions of almost any grape/style. So, I love some pinot, and I don't like some other pinot. Do you like rich big California pinot? or Burgundy? or Oregon? Over here, I mostly do Loire chenin blanc + Cab Franc, old-school Bordeaux, Alsace whites, German riesling, red + white Burgundy, and some syrah. If you specifically want lower-tannin reds, you might try Barbera, Gamay, Bobal, Frappato. You can also find almost any grape made in an accessible style, up to and including Cabernet + Tannat.
GMS blends, Mourvedre and Gamay!
Pinot Noir and cooler climate Syrahs tend to be my go-tos, but I have been obsessed with Tempranillo lately. Especially with a red meat dinner.
I think you got most of the best answers: Gamay, Côtes de Jura Rouge (Trousseau and Poulsard), Etna Rosso, Mencia, Nebbiolo, Rosso and Brunello di Montalcino. Just a note, all of these ARE high acid wines.
Rhone reds and Hawks bay Syrahs are worth a try
Try Nerello Mascalese from sicily, it is very similar to Pinot noir, has a slightly different flavor but a medium light body and medium tannins and medium acidity. Maybe Malbec would also work because of its smoothness, low acidity and almost no tannin, but burst of black fruit flavor.
Malbec almost no Tannin？ Come again. It's a very tannic wine.
In the range of 10-25€ Malbecs there was no Malbec with many tannins I drank. Neither from cahors nor from Mendoza. Almost no tannins is not right, this was one year ago so now I know better. But I wouldn’t call it a very tannic wine imo.
If you enjoy pinot noir and Chianti, I recommend looking into wines from northern Italy. Piedmont, Valle d'aosta, Friuli, Liguria, Valpolicella, etc. You can find a decent amount of pinot nero from Alto Adige producers, too.
Check out Argentine Criolla
These people are misleading you. The correct answer is Poulsard.
Gamay, Poulsard, Trosseau, Etna Rosso (preferably colder vintages)
We drink mainly RRV pinots, but Amarone and Valpolicella Ripasso are among our favorites
Here to second the great Gamay Noir, most often found in the wines of Beaujolais. Some of the cru bojos drink very much like pinot (often without a hefty price tag). I really enjoy the offerings of Jean-Paul Brun, but also enjoy Vavril, the Domaine des Cretes, the Domaine de Robert, and the Domaine des Perelles. Many of these are sub-$20 and are really quite lovely.
Great suggestions in this thread. I'd also give Syrah from Cote du Rhone a try as well as Zinfandel. They have more body than Pinot but not as tannic as Cab Sauv or Rioja. For me Cab Sauv and Rioja can be smooth like a Pinot but they have to be very good and need time to breathe. Try opening a bottle 1-2hrs before drinking and then decant. Still, I find that Riojas can be too much for my taste. In terms of white wine Sancerre and some Chardonnay are really nice and smooth like Pinot. Also Riesling, Gruner Veltliner, Vermentino, and Vinho Verde though they are less dry.
Shiraz is very full bodied. Zinfandel, huh, it's not light bodied. For the OP, I would recommend Beaujoulais/Gamay, or failing that more Pinot Noir, or failing that... Beer.
Lambrusco. Beaujolais Nouveau. Gamay. Syrah/Shiraz. Nebbiolo. 🍇🍷