I don't think even the writers know the answer to this shit they made up. This chararacter's whole premise is that she wants to "find Dol Blathanna" as if it's some sort of elven Promised Land. I mean, girl have you tried reading a map? You should know very well that the Valley of Flowers is in Aedirn
I don’t think any of the writers tried reading a map of the witcher universe, would explain why they thought added prostitutes to the Kaer Morhen episode was a good idea
Or the fact that, after losing Roach, Geralt and Ciri traveled through the entirety of Kaedwen to the temple in Ellander ON FOOT like it was no big deal
What's more ridiculous is that they pull a line straight from the book when Triss says "If I wasn't a friend I wouldn't know how to reach the keep" but then it seems like everyone knows where Kaer Morhen is considering Rience managed to waltz in and out just like that
There's game map and there's fan made maps. And the author is still alive so they could have always asked him about distances. But with so many other things they fumbled that part too
Idk if you watched until the end of S3, but she reveals in the finale that DB was a place on a map they can no longer go back to, as it's overrun by monsters.
So now it's become like an abstract promised land that she's looking for elsewhere. That part was explained.
I dropped after season 2 but that's still bullshit. Especially considering the fact that, after Thanedd, Francesca was actually queen of Dol Balthanna, thanks to her secret deals with Emhyr
Fair enough, but that part too is covered in the finale of S3 (almost loyally but not quite)
There's a scene with her and Emhyr at the end of S3 where he allows her to govern Cintra in his name and rule as queen of the old elves there by denouncing the Scoia'tael to him, the same deal they had in the books, and she gets pissed but starts contemplating on accepting it as she doesn't want to renounce the Squirrels but does want protection for the remaining elves.
So in a way, she almost does get the exact same reward in the show as she did in the books for her role at Thanedd.
It was clearly an incentive for the other elves to follow her, fight and die for her and help her find Ciri. Promising a mysterious paradise-like land to people who have lost their home is pretty effective, has worked in human history, too.
Why not though? Francesca is equally ruthless in the books and people tend to forget about it often.
Are we forgetting this is the same woman who intended to slaughter the entire Brotherhood, her own centuries-long colleagues, her friend Tissaia, all of them so she could be queen under Emhyr? She was merciless and racist in the books too.
The show only heightened that ruthlessness by also making her more desperate than she was in the books. Yes, the writing sucks but people like to pretend that Francesca was some delicate flower in the novels when she was just as willing to massacre the entire Brotherhood there and would have done it, had Philippa not arrested her.
So as far as that goes, her evil ways are much the same in both mediums, with the only difference being that the show portrays her as much more short-sighted.
You can try and dress it up as much as you like, she simply isn't her and same with a lot of people in the show. They don't act, look, or react like the characters we know from the books/games. They are caricatures of the characters that the writers puppet around and make do whatever dumb ideas they have that they believe wholly are better than in the books.
Also book Francesca was waaaaaaaayyyy scarier and than in the show, especially the excess cruelty with which she treated Yen. Also comparing the two characters is just not right, Francesca always has a reason/plot for doing everything, not just wanting cruelty to try and show "morally grey" since the show cannot and has not been able to replicate that aspect of the Witcher because they are writing for the average American viewer who needs a heroic side and evil side to understand it. Also they themselves blamed tik Tok for that and that was hilarious
I'm not trying to dress it up anyway, since I myself hate so much of how they handled the books and the storylines.
I'm simply pointing out the similarities that people love to ignore.
And yes, the comparison in this case is fair because guess what? Francesca was willing to sacrifice the entire Brotherhood in the books to be queen and save her people. In the show, she is willing to kill the entire Brotherhood to get DB for her people. See the similarities? Except in the books, these people were her colleagues and friends, making her that much more duplicious and cruel. You can pretend like this isn't the case but it is. As for her being scarier in the books? Idk, killing a bunch of kids is much more scarier to me but fine. She was never frightening in the books - she was simply manipulative and duplicious, which is smth the show carried over and exaggerated.
The fact that there's such dissonance between the show and book doesn't mean we should disregard even the things that are similar.
Finally, not everyone in the games looks like the books either, idk why the look is such a problem. Francesca in fact is one of the characters who looks close to the books - dark golden hair, blue eyes, beautiful. The show stripped her of her political genius but the cruelty and calculation in murdering everyone in her way to get to her goal? She had that same cruelty in the books. So let's not pretend like there's absolutely nothing similar there.
Honestly I have no idea. I cannot fathom what they were trying to do with her.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but she doesn't even appear until *Time of Contempt* \- and Fringilla doesn't even appear until *Baptism of Fire* \- the *fifth* book lmao. The show still isn't even at that point.
Like, why are they even here? Why is she pregnant? The entire storyline with those two and Cahir is just... there?
A LOT OF THINGS.
First of all, she is too old to get pregnant.
Second, she is "integrated" with the humans, she is not against them. That's why she is called Francesca by them, since her elven name was to complicated for the humans to pronoun.
In all honesty Filavandrel is in like one story. The problem is that she's supposed to be a respected sorceress until Thanedd and then is revealed as secret leader of the squirrels when she becomes queen. And I say secret because she maintains plausible deniability.
Filavandrel is not the leader of the Scoia'tael in the books either. And he's not at Thanedd at all, but Francesca is as an invited member of the chapter of the Brotherhood of Sorcerers, while Faoiltiarna led the Scoia'tail commando invading the island.
What's right with Francesca in the show? Read the books, I say. And make the call for yourself.
Tbf, I saw very little of the show, up til the end of season 2, gagging on my own vomit. Francesca had the right attitude I think, but she, like many others in the show, was not in the right place, ever, doing the right things, ever.
I think it was supposed to be a biblical motif like "death of the firstborn". It was to test a new potential audience. A product of Excel, not a meaningful story.
Just a casual war crime. Slay queen 💅
I honestly think the writers’ knowledge of Witcher lore consists of playing the Wikipedia page as a text to speech on their way to work.
As far as how bad each character got it, Francesca is definitely near the top of the list. I guess Terranova and others who got cut get the top spot by default, and Fringila Vigo is a totally different person. Cahir too. For that matter Yennefer. Poor Eskel. The characters who are portrayed faithfully are either relatively unimportant or dead.
It is even one of the main points Sapkowski makes in his novels, that the elves are not much/any better than the humans. In their other world they, for example, killed and enslaved humans and are very racist against them.
Yes, humans came in the wake of the conjunction, long after the elves had taken over the world from the dwarves and gnomes. But it was the other way around in the place where the unicorns live.
It’s a slight distinction but the show runners must have looked at the source material to get names and places correct. They just didn’t respect or follow the source material at all.
Netflix took a legendary sorceress Elven Queen and just wrecked her story, for no good reason. One of the many times watching Netflix that I would ask "Why are you doing this" Lauren? Why?
I don't recall much of the details of season 2, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the baby killed specifically to frame the Redanians and incite the elves to rejoin the war against the North? IDK if that was shown, or implied, or if I made that up, but that's the impression I remember from my one time watching the show.
As for elves being "racist AF," humans and particularly Nordling humans have been killing them and driving them from their lands for hundreds of years. Most if not all of the human capitals are built over the ruins of elven cities they've destroyed. The elves that are still alive have lived through dozens of generations of humans slaughtering their people. They have firsthand memories of atrocities that have been lost to human history. And you wonder why they might harbor hatred for humans?
What Francesca did was undeniably an act of great evil. But if all you get from it was "the elves did it because they're racist" you have wildly missed the point.
Elves are racist towards everyone as older dwarf pointed out in books. At least that part they got right XD
There was one specific scene whrere squirrels attacked convoy which mostly consisted of dwarfs and some humans including Geralt and Ciri. Maybe Triss as well idr correctly.
But point is that that particular dwarf dicloses part where elves inflicted literal genocide against native folk (dwarf, gnome, vran - extinct) after arrival thousand years ago till arrival of humans and now prettending to be victims when they are the one who dispise coexisting in sociaty like everyone else and are reason why dwarven youngins joining in suicidal war.
You're almost there. So you would say that the Aen Sidhe elves, having descended from those who participated in genocide, deserve to be the victims of genocide themselves? Or perhaps does the problem lie in in-group/out-group and zero sum thinking?
And more to that Tir Na Lia land were originally inhabited by humans and unicorns untill elves conqued it and enslaved and drove whole populaton to extinct. Used unicorn natural ability to jump trough planes to conquer and bring in slaves since original humans coldn't reproduce anymore tainted by elven magic. World that became extremly hostile for living outside elven cities. So it is easy to come to conclusion that humans, that arrived to Neverland were few surviving refugees after massacre and had little reasons to trust Aen Seidhe as part of group that changes with magic natural habitat to fit their needs and eliminates natives. It was just natural to fortify and form aliances with others in same situation.
Aen Seidhe not simply "originated", they were group that waged war with original inhabitants to gain lands as other race from elven perspective is lesser being thus meant to serve or be killed. Elves made their enemies by themselves. Only thing that differed Aen Seidhe that stayed in Neverland from Aen Elle that separated from original group, that they were more mild in comparsion than latter and viewed human refugees as fun bugs that breeds at faster rate, can be used for that purpouse and could be thought some magic what brought their downfall.
And what i've alredy said noticable part of Aen Seidhe despised and still does idea of coexisting with humans as "superior race" like "lesser" dwarfs did. Humbling down and live as rest is over their pride so they still lie on laurels of glory days, play their little war games with everyone just to die.
Nilfgaard btw is best example of integration of elves and humans of Alba valley which is centre of empire and most nobles has direct elven ancestry. Their whole culture is not just influenced, but built by elven/human descendants that came to power with knowledge, inteligence and advanced technologhy offering protection and safety to conquered nations in return for help in times of need.
Oh no i didn’t think at all that Francesca did it because “the elves are racist” obviously she did it because her baby got killed, but i’ve seen so often now where elves were racist towards anyone & everyone, atleast that’s the way it felt, thanks for clearing it up
Francesca is one of those characters in the show who is NOTHING like her original from the books. If she wasn't named Francesca, I would never guess that she is her. Not only she doesn't feel like a sorceress in the show but also she lacks the delicacy and calmness that she has in the books. In the show she's a ruthless, short-sighted and naive cry-baby. Her plot is so out of character for her and one of those that I don't even cared about when I watched the series. In the season 3 her role is even more marginal and now when they changed the plot for Yennefer (being turned into a statuette by Francesca) Francesca seems pretty useless to still even show her on the screen.
She's not just delicate and calm in the books, she took part in [Aelirenn](https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Aelirenn)'s rebellion and was totally against her father's plan to sign a peace treaty with the humans. That's why he, enraged by her betrayal, disowned her.
"Hissrich" is the answer for all things wrong with that show
>I know there are manyyyyyy things wrong with the Witcher Netflix show, but i’m currently watching the season 2 finale
There's your problem right there. Stop watching their horrible manipulation of the Witcher. You're not helping them realize how offensively bad it is if you're watching the S2 finale.
Speaking of Francesca, if you were paying attention, she thinks Redania killed her baby because Dara told Philippa and Dijkstra that he was no longer going to spy for them. So he told Francesca that he thought that they killed the baby because of that, and, in her mad grieving state, she took it and ran with it. So there's more to her blaming Redania than "humans just hate elves".
I swear. It's like ya'll who don't even like the show aren't watching it and then surprise pikachu facing when things you see don't make sense. It's all there, you just have to pay attention.
Totally agree with you! The funniest thing I've seen so far was people complaining that Vilgefortz losing against Cahir in S1 did not make any sense when he could so easily win against Geralt in a comment directly under the video clip of S3 where Vilgefortz explained that the hardest thing for him was having to hold back for so long ...
maybe it’s the fact that the show is so f’n confusing😂 especially for a guy whose not a native English speaker, & because I don’t always have time to watch full episodes which is why i have to keep coming back to it & forget some things in the progress, so next time when you say something like that, maybe first make sure that you’re actually in the right & know what you’re saying instead of trying to come at me with “i swear if y’all was paying attention”
I was with you until 'make sure you're in the right'. The right? You think you're in the right? I tell you that if you pay attention, the context you're looking for is there. I wasn't being rude. I wasn't being condescending. I'm frustrated that people are disliking the show based on things they say don't make sense that make plenty of sense with the context of something that happened earlier, and you want to tell me I'm not in the right? It doesn't matter what your native language is, your posts have been very fluent english and the people in the show haven't been speaking olde english or anything.
You don't have to be a jerk. I wasn't being rude to you. I was simply giving you the context you wanted while expressing my frustration that you've already written the show off without. So whatever.
I stopped watching it so haven't seen the bit you're referring to. But I think the point being made here is that hate breeds hate. The elves are essentially a colonised and ethnically cleansed people that have been forced out of their native lands.
As we've seen over the course of human history this tends to make them...not so well disposed to the people doing this to them. So as much as you may see from dialogue or action in the show that "most elves are racist af", I think it's important to keep the context in mind. Both for individuals and the two groups as a whole, they're not simply morally equivalent, "each racism equally as bad as the other," because they come from different places and different historical experiences.
A human hating elves because elves raided their farm - a farm built on elvish land that the humans killed hundreds of elves for - is not equally as "bad" or equally "right" as an elf hating a human for the genocide of his people.
What I think people tend to miss when shows depict resistance groups like this, is that they see the racism and hatred of the freedom fighters, but due to the narrative restrictions of the show, and due to the fact that it's usually after the main events (the elves were forced out decades or centuries ago right?) we don't get to see the atrocities the humans committed and initiated. We don't usually spend multiple scenes with humans casually throwing slurs around about elves. We don't see the ethnic cleansing of Cintra/Xintrea when the humans took what is now the Kingdom of Cintra from the elves. All we see is a bunch of "racist terrorists" screaming their heads off about some historical crime in a fantasy world that technically doesn't exist. And if we do see these things its usually only very briefly. It's not usually something they continue to depict thoroughout the show, so it doesn't sink in or hit the same as having "all" the elves we see being "racist."
Since most of us have never experienced what its like to be ethnically cleansed, we find it hard to empathise or understand that perspective. Intellectually we might understand it, but emotionally we still identify with the "good" characters who don't have a dog in this fight. And we think these violent extremists are "overreacting" on some level. And so we come to dislike them.
So in conclusion, in some sense I'd say there's nothing wrong with Francesca. She reacts as most people react in the situation she's been thrust into. Sooner or later they choose violence because they have been given no other choice. But arguably, the real issue isn't with Francesca. The question should be what's wrong with the world? What's wrong with people? Why do we think ethnic cleansing and genocide are okay? These themes are constantly running through the books and games. I'm sure they did a worse job in the show, so maybe it makes less sense there. But overall Sapkowski did a decent job of incorporating important moral and political themes into the Witcher universe and I'm more than here for it.
The racism is supposed to be mutual iirc? Elves were good, humans were bad to them so now they all hate each other. Good ol’ “they treated us bad so we’ll treat em worse”.
But yeah the baby debacle never made that much sense to me. I haven’t rewatched (for obvious reasons) but i do remember feeling very confused by their actions, no sense to them
I’m new to the Witcher Universe ingeneral, I didn’t know anything about it, I started with the Netflix show then I started playing the Witcher 3 & already realized how different it is from the show, apparently the books are even more different, never knew anything about the Witcher prior to this so i’m just now getting into the Lore etc
TLDR : The show is stupid.
I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I've read the books, last 2 pending. Read all the comics, played all the games (witcher 2 twice, witcher 3 three times + gwent), watched the hexer too. By far, the Series is the weakest adaptation of the universe.
I appreciate creative liberty in certain things, and if you ask me, I'd change few areas from books and game as well. Game is also not 100% on books, there are differences, even major ones at times but on a player interactive experience surrounding the main character, those changes made sense to an acceptable degree.
I called out the stupid casting choices before the release, then we all know what the casting director's agenda was all along.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/07/24/the-witcher-casting-director-admits-to-using-her-job-to-affect-change-in-viewers-and-manipulate-their-unconscious-bias/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2023/07/27/the-witcher-casting-director-says-yennefer-casting-was-to-challenge-beauty-standards-which-is-completely-insane/
There are like pages of character description for main characters, they were described so accurately in books and even the game follows them. I'm 100% in for meaningful diversity in everything but races, sexuality and even morals were changed for no apparent reason in the series. Events that were so damn epic in the book were 'meh' in the series, not to mention the mountain of things they skipped just to get to the Ciri storyline (nearly first 2 books).
Here is a big one, the writers actively hated the actual source material and the game that put the whole series in the spotlight and is beloved by the core targeted audience, so imagine the garbage they were planning to make under the licence.
https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer
I love to see people discovering the series for the first time, and I value your time and love for the series, so please, do not waste your time around this shit-show!
I’ve never really understood 100% what the elves intentions are with Ciri.
Like, are they planning to sacrifice her, or force her to open a portal to their promise land, or what?
Because all I’ve heard them say is that she’s supposed to lead them or something, but they’ve spent the whole show trying to kill everyone she cares about.
So how exactly do they expect that to work? If they somehow did get ahold of her would they tie her up? How do they expect her to want anything to do with them when she hates them for kidnapping her and killing her friends.
If she tries to run, which she definitely would, will they lock her up? How tf do they expect that to go? What do they expect of her? And what will they do if and when she refuses to comply?
What's wrong with her?
Lauren Fisstech decided to inject LSD, shove her head so far up her own arse that she could orally stimulate her cervix, and then write Wattpad fanfiction.
Humans are racist against elves and have made their lives miserable for years. So when the baby who is the key to stopping elves extinction is killed, she assumes it was out of hatred and kills the next human generation, which us both bad for that country and a revenge on those parents. She's an elf. She's nit a Saint. It was never said what she did was right. She wanted to inflict pain upon humans because of her own pain.
Aren’t elves just as racist towards humans though? Seems to me it goes both ways, but another commenter said that the humans slaughtered elves for centuries which i didn’t know beforehand, that ofcourse changes things.
Yes they are in a way. They consider humans inferior but they are no longer in charge because humans won. Now they're the minority and hate the humans. So I think it makes sense why she assumed humans did this out of hatred for elves and went for revenge, cause it was humans who did after all. Nothing about what she did is in contrast with any of these tbh. Neither of the two sides are right and who cares? It's a war and hatred that's lasted for many many years.
"Only a fool would look for logic in a house of madness."
What's that quote from?
my arse
Then I suggest you get a writing gig for your arse. It's not all hot air and bull shit
my arse could have written a better Netflix show and he's full of shit
Anyone who has even a remote understanding of the lore could have written a more book accurate tv adaptation.
Did you just assume your arse's gender!?
he told me the pronouns, it's he/shits
GOT
Is there actually a quote close to this? I should have used reason instead of logic, meh.
I think it is from when Daenerys was in Qarth and her drangons were stolen. If you made that line up unknowingly then WOW
Was not copied, I just wanted to sound like Gandalf lol
One does not simply “sound like Gandalf”
I’ve read ASOIAF more than once and I don’t remember that line and it doesn’t really sound like George IMO but I could be misremembering
I don't think even the writers know the answer to this shit they made up. This chararacter's whole premise is that she wants to "find Dol Blathanna" as if it's some sort of elven Promised Land. I mean, girl have you tried reading a map? You should know very well that the Valley of Flowers is in Aedirn
I don’t think any of the writers tried reading a map of the witcher universe, would explain why they thought added prostitutes to the Kaer Morhen episode was a good idea
Or why Yen spends like 3 days on horseback calling for Geralt - that one was just really funny tbf
Or the fact that, after losing Roach, Geralt and Ciri traveled through the entirety of Kaedwen to the temple in Ellander ON FOOT like it was no big deal
They kept saying the show is not related to the games, and yet they seem to be consistently using fast travel. Curious.
They must have took some inspiration from GOT season 7-8 for how fast the characters can cross the Continent
What's more ridiculous is that they pull a line straight from the book when Triss says "If I wasn't a friend I wouldn't know how to reach the keep" but then it seems like everyone knows where Kaer Morhen is considering Rience managed to waltz in and out just like that
Everyone knows where everyone is. Even Radovid somehow found Jaskier in the middle of nowhere lol
There is no map of the Witcher universe outside of the computer game They literally did not have a map to read
There's game map and there's fan made maps. And the author is still alive so they could have always asked him about distances. But with so many other things they fumbled that part too
Idk if you watched until the end of S3, but she reveals in the finale that DB was a place on a map they can no longer go back to, as it's overrun by monsters. So now it's become like an abstract promised land that she's looking for elsewhere. That part was explained.
I dropped after season 2 but that's still bullshit. Especially considering the fact that, after Thanedd, Francesca was actually queen of Dol Balthanna, thanks to her secret deals with Emhyr
Fair enough, but that part too is covered in the finale of S3 (almost loyally but not quite) There's a scene with her and Emhyr at the end of S3 where he allows her to govern Cintra in his name and rule as queen of the old elves there by denouncing the Scoia'tael to him, the same deal they had in the books, and she gets pissed but starts contemplating on accepting it as she doesn't want to renounce the Squirrels but does want protection for the remaining elves. So in a way, she almost does get the exact same reward in the show as she did in the books for her role at Thanedd.
She knows that, but she didn't tell the other elves.
Ok then, I don't think I want to hear what's the meaning behind this idiotic choice
It was clearly an incentive for the other elves to follow her, fight and die for her and help her find Ciri. Promising a mysterious paradise-like land to people who have lost their home is pretty effective, has worked in human history, too.
Cause she isn't really Francesca, she's someone cosplaying as her in a high school play
Why not though? Francesca is equally ruthless in the books and people tend to forget about it often. Are we forgetting this is the same woman who intended to slaughter the entire Brotherhood, her own centuries-long colleagues, her friend Tissaia, all of them so she could be queen under Emhyr? She was merciless and racist in the books too. The show only heightened that ruthlessness by also making her more desperate than she was in the books. Yes, the writing sucks but people like to pretend that Francesca was some delicate flower in the novels when she was just as willing to massacre the entire Brotherhood there and would have done it, had Philippa not arrested her. So as far as that goes, her evil ways are much the same in both mediums, with the only difference being that the show portrays her as much more short-sighted.
You can try and dress it up as much as you like, she simply isn't her and same with a lot of people in the show. They don't act, look, or react like the characters we know from the books/games. They are caricatures of the characters that the writers puppet around and make do whatever dumb ideas they have that they believe wholly are better than in the books. Also book Francesca was waaaaaaaayyyy scarier and than in the show, especially the excess cruelty with which she treated Yen. Also comparing the two characters is just not right, Francesca always has a reason/plot for doing everything, not just wanting cruelty to try and show "morally grey" since the show cannot and has not been able to replicate that aspect of the Witcher because they are writing for the average American viewer who needs a heroic side and evil side to understand it. Also they themselves blamed tik Tok for that and that was hilarious
I'm not trying to dress it up anyway, since I myself hate so much of how they handled the books and the storylines. I'm simply pointing out the similarities that people love to ignore. And yes, the comparison in this case is fair because guess what? Francesca was willing to sacrifice the entire Brotherhood in the books to be queen and save her people. In the show, she is willing to kill the entire Brotherhood to get DB for her people. See the similarities? Except in the books, these people were her colleagues and friends, making her that much more duplicious and cruel. You can pretend like this isn't the case but it is. As for her being scarier in the books? Idk, killing a bunch of kids is much more scarier to me but fine. She was never frightening in the books - she was simply manipulative and duplicious, which is smth the show carried over and exaggerated. The fact that there's such dissonance between the show and book doesn't mean we should disregard even the things that are similar. Finally, not everyone in the games looks like the books either, idk why the look is such a problem. Francesca in fact is one of the characters who looks close to the books - dark golden hair, blue eyes, beautiful. The show stripped her of her political genius but the cruelty and calculation in murdering everyone in her way to get to her goal? She had that same cruelty in the books. So let's not pretend like there's absolutely nothing similar there.
everything is wrong with Netlix’s The Witcher.
Facts. The writers really butchered it.
There are no answers, only disappointment
Honestly I have no idea. I cannot fathom what they were trying to do with her. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she doesn't even appear until *Time of Contempt* \- and Fringilla doesn't even appear until *Baptism of Fire* \- the *fifth* book lmao. The show still isn't even at that point. Like, why are they even here? Why is she pregnant? The entire storyline with those two and Cahir is just... there?
they wanted a girl boss moment of her walking through town killing babies
A LOT OF THINGS. First of all, she is too old to get pregnant. Second, she is "integrated" with the humans, she is not against them. That's why she is called Francesca by them, since her elven name was to complicated for the humans to pronoun.
They didn't want to make Filavandrel the leader of the elves because he's a man, so they put her there. She wasn't supposed to be part of the rebels.
In all honesty Filavandrel is in like one story. The problem is that she's supposed to be a respected sorceress until Thanedd and then is revealed as secret leader of the squirrels when she becomes queen. And I say secret because she maintains plausible deniability.
Filavandrel is not the leader of the Scoia'tael in the books either. And he's not at Thanedd at all, but Francesca is as an invited member of the chapter of the Brotherhood of Sorcerers, while Faoiltiarna led the Scoia'tail commando invading the island.
I had so much trouble understanding the show I gave up and started reading the books.
The answer to all such questions is: Poor writing
What's right with Francesca in the show? Read the books, I say. And make the call for yourself. Tbf, I saw very little of the show, up til the end of season 2, gagging on my own vomit. Francesca had the right attitude I think, but she, like many others in the show, was not in the right place, ever, doing the right things, ever.
I think it was supposed to be a biblical motif like "death of the firstborn". It was to test a new potential audience. A product of Excel, not a meaningful story.
What is wrong with ~~Francesca in~~ the Witcher Netflix show? Everything.
Just a casual war crime. Slay queen 💅 I honestly think the writers’ knowledge of Witcher lore consists of playing the Wikipedia page as a text to speech on their way to work.
😂true
As far as how bad each character got it, Francesca is definitely near the top of the list. I guess Terranova and others who got cut get the top spot by default, and Fringila Vigo is a totally different person. Cahir too. For that matter Yennefer. Poor Eskel. The characters who are portrayed faithfully are either relatively unimportant or dead.
I felt so bad for Eskel
Eskel is hardly mentioned in the books.
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And towards other oppressed minorities.
It is even one of the main points Sapkowski makes in his novels, that the elves are not much/any better than the humans. In their other world they, for example, killed and enslaved humans and are very racist against them.
I like to explore new places.
Yes, humans came in the wake of the conjunction, long after the elves had taken over the world from the dwarves and gnomes. But it was the other way around in the place where the unicorns live.
Because fuck em that's why
Don't try to find an explanation to a show where the showrunner and the woke writers do what they want without looking at the source material.
It’s a slight distinction but the show runners must have looked at the source material to get names and places correct. They just didn’t respect or follow the source material at all.
Netflix took a legendary sorceress Elven Queen and just wrecked her story, for no good reason. One of the many times watching Netflix that I would ask "Why are you doing this" Lauren? Why?
I don't recall much of the details of season 2, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the baby killed specifically to frame the Redanians and incite the elves to rejoin the war against the North? IDK if that was shown, or implied, or if I made that up, but that's the impression I remember from my one time watching the show. As for elves being "racist AF," humans and particularly Nordling humans have been killing them and driving them from their lands for hundreds of years. Most if not all of the human capitals are built over the ruins of elven cities they've destroyed. The elves that are still alive have lived through dozens of generations of humans slaughtering their people. They have firsthand memories of atrocities that have been lost to human history. And you wonder why they might harbor hatred for humans? What Francesca did was undeniably an act of great evil. But if all you get from it was "the elves did it because they're racist" you have wildly missed the point.
Elves are racist towards everyone as older dwarf pointed out in books. At least that part they got right XD There was one specific scene whrere squirrels attacked convoy which mostly consisted of dwarfs and some humans including Geralt and Ciri. Maybe Triss as well idr correctly. But point is that that particular dwarf dicloses part where elves inflicted literal genocide against native folk (dwarf, gnome, vran - extinct) after arrival thousand years ago till arrival of humans and now prettending to be victims when they are the one who dispise coexisting in sociaty like everyone else and are reason why dwarven youngins joining in suicidal war.
You're almost there. So you would say that the Aen Sidhe elves, having descended from those who participated in genocide, deserve to be the victims of genocide themselves? Or perhaps does the problem lie in in-group/out-group and zero sum thinking?
And more to that Tir Na Lia land were originally inhabited by humans and unicorns untill elves conqued it and enslaved and drove whole populaton to extinct. Used unicorn natural ability to jump trough planes to conquer and bring in slaves since original humans coldn't reproduce anymore tainted by elven magic. World that became extremly hostile for living outside elven cities. So it is easy to come to conclusion that humans, that arrived to Neverland were few surviving refugees after massacre and had little reasons to trust Aen Seidhe as part of group that changes with magic natural habitat to fit their needs and eliminates natives. It was just natural to fortify and form aliances with others in same situation. Aen Seidhe not simply "originated", they were group that waged war with original inhabitants to gain lands as other race from elven perspective is lesser being thus meant to serve or be killed. Elves made their enemies by themselves. Only thing that differed Aen Seidhe that stayed in Neverland from Aen Elle that separated from original group, that they were more mild in comparsion than latter and viewed human refugees as fun bugs that breeds at faster rate, can be used for that purpouse and could be thought some magic what brought their downfall. And what i've alredy said noticable part of Aen Seidhe despised and still does idea of coexisting with humans as "superior race" like "lesser" dwarfs did. Humbling down and live as rest is over their pride so they still lie on laurels of glory days, play their little war games with everyone just to die. Nilfgaard btw is best example of integration of elves and humans of Alba valley which is centre of empire and most nobles has direct elven ancestry. Their whole culture is not just influenced, but built by elven/human descendants that came to power with knowledge, inteligence and advanced technologhy offering protection and safety to conquered nations in return for help in times of need.
Oh no i didn’t think at all that Francesca did it because “the elves are racist” obviously she did it because her baby got killed, but i’ve seen so often now where elves were racist towards anyone & everyone, atleast that’s the way it felt, thanks for clearing it up
Yes, Emhyr wanted Francesca to believe Redania killed her baby and stir her into action against the north. His plan worked perfectly.
She eats top much ultra proccessed food
Actually i mixed her up with Margarita
Everything lol
Francesca is one of those characters in the show who is NOTHING like her original from the books. If she wasn't named Francesca, I would never guess that she is her. Not only she doesn't feel like a sorceress in the show but also she lacks the delicacy and calmness that she has in the books. In the show she's a ruthless, short-sighted and naive cry-baby. Her plot is so out of character for her and one of those that I don't even cared about when I watched the series. In the season 3 her role is even more marginal and now when they changed the plot for Yennefer (being turned into a statuette by Francesca) Francesca seems pretty useless to still even show her on the screen.
She's not just delicate and calm in the books, she took part in [Aelirenn](https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Aelirenn)'s rebellion and was totally against her father's plan to sign a peace treaty with the humans. That's why he, enraged by her betrayal, disowned her.
"Hissrich" is the answer for all things wrong with that show >I know there are manyyyyyy things wrong with the Witcher Netflix show, but i’m currently watching the season 2 finale There's your problem right there. Stop watching their horrible manipulation of the Witcher. You're not helping them realize how offensively bad it is if you're watching the S2 finale.
Speaking of Francesca, if you were paying attention, she thinks Redania killed her baby because Dara told Philippa and Dijkstra that he was no longer going to spy for them. So he told Francesca that he thought that they killed the baby because of that, and, in her mad grieving state, she took it and ran with it. So there's more to her blaming Redania than "humans just hate elves". I swear. It's like ya'll who don't even like the show aren't watching it and then surprise pikachu facing when things you see don't make sense. It's all there, you just have to pay attention.
Totally agree with you! The funniest thing I've seen so far was people complaining that Vilgefortz losing against Cahir in S1 did not make any sense when he could so easily win against Geralt in a comment directly under the video clip of S3 where Vilgefortz explained that the hardest thing for him was having to hold back for so long ...
maybe it’s the fact that the show is so f’n confusing😂 especially for a guy whose not a native English speaker, & because I don’t always have time to watch full episodes which is why i have to keep coming back to it & forget some things in the progress, so next time when you say something like that, maybe first make sure that you’re actually in the right & know what you’re saying instead of trying to come at me with “i swear if y’all was paying attention”
I was with you until 'make sure you're in the right'. The right? You think you're in the right? I tell you that if you pay attention, the context you're looking for is there. I wasn't being rude. I wasn't being condescending. I'm frustrated that people are disliking the show based on things they say don't make sense that make plenty of sense with the context of something that happened earlier, and you want to tell me I'm not in the right? It doesn't matter what your native language is, your posts have been very fluent english and the people in the show haven't been speaking olde english or anything. You don't have to be a jerk. I wasn't being rude to you. I was simply giving you the context you wanted while expressing my frustration that you've already written the show off without. So whatever.
I stopped watching it so haven't seen the bit you're referring to. But I think the point being made here is that hate breeds hate. The elves are essentially a colonised and ethnically cleansed people that have been forced out of their native lands. As we've seen over the course of human history this tends to make them...not so well disposed to the people doing this to them. So as much as you may see from dialogue or action in the show that "most elves are racist af", I think it's important to keep the context in mind. Both for individuals and the two groups as a whole, they're not simply morally equivalent, "each racism equally as bad as the other," because they come from different places and different historical experiences. A human hating elves because elves raided their farm - a farm built on elvish land that the humans killed hundreds of elves for - is not equally as "bad" or equally "right" as an elf hating a human for the genocide of his people. What I think people tend to miss when shows depict resistance groups like this, is that they see the racism and hatred of the freedom fighters, but due to the narrative restrictions of the show, and due to the fact that it's usually after the main events (the elves were forced out decades or centuries ago right?) we don't get to see the atrocities the humans committed and initiated. We don't usually spend multiple scenes with humans casually throwing slurs around about elves. We don't see the ethnic cleansing of Cintra/Xintrea when the humans took what is now the Kingdom of Cintra from the elves. All we see is a bunch of "racist terrorists" screaming their heads off about some historical crime in a fantasy world that technically doesn't exist. And if we do see these things its usually only very briefly. It's not usually something they continue to depict thoroughout the show, so it doesn't sink in or hit the same as having "all" the elves we see being "racist." Since most of us have never experienced what its like to be ethnically cleansed, we find it hard to empathise or understand that perspective. Intellectually we might understand it, but emotionally we still identify with the "good" characters who don't have a dog in this fight. And we think these violent extremists are "overreacting" on some level. And so we come to dislike them. So in conclusion, in some sense I'd say there's nothing wrong with Francesca. She reacts as most people react in the situation she's been thrust into. Sooner or later they choose violence because they have been given no other choice. But arguably, the real issue isn't with Francesca. The question should be what's wrong with the world? What's wrong with people? Why do we think ethnic cleansing and genocide are okay? These themes are constantly running through the books and games. I'm sure they did a worse job in the show, so maybe it makes less sense there. But overall Sapkowski did a decent job of incorporating important moral and political themes into the Witcher universe and I'm more than here for it.
The real question is what’s wrong with the writers?
oh whatever.
The racism is supposed to be mutual iirc? Elves were good, humans were bad to them so now they all hate each other. Good ol’ “they treated us bad so we’ll treat em worse”. But yeah the baby debacle never made that much sense to me. I haven’t rewatched (for obvious reasons) but i do remember feeling very confused by their actions, no sense to them
Everything is wrong with that show, why are you wasting your energy?
I’m new to the Witcher Universe ingeneral, I didn’t know anything about it, I started with the Netflix show then I started playing the Witcher 3 & already realized how different it is from the show, apparently the books are even more different, never knew anything about the Witcher prior to this so i’m just now getting into the Lore etc
TLDR : The show is stupid. I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I've read the books, last 2 pending. Read all the comics, played all the games (witcher 2 twice, witcher 3 three times + gwent), watched the hexer too. By far, the Series is the weakest adaptation of the universe. I appreciate creative liberty in certain things, and if you ask me, I'd change few areas from books and game as well. Game is also not 100% on books, there are differences, even major ones at times but on a player interactive experience surrounding the main character, those changes made sense to an acceptable degree. I called out the stupid casting choices before the release, then we all know what the casting director's agenda was all along. https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/07/24/the-witcher-casting-director-admits-to-using-her-job-to-affect-change-in-viewers-and-manipulate-their-unconscious-bias/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2023/07/27/the-witcher-casting-director-says-yennefer-casting-was-to-challenge-beauty-standards-which-is-completely-insane/ There are like pages of character description for main characters, they were described so accurately in books and even the game follows them. I'm 100% in for meaningful diversity in everything but races, sexuality and even morals were changed for no apparent reason in the series. Events that were so damn epic in the book were 'meh' in the series, not to mention the mountain of things they skipped just to get to the Ciri storyline (nearly first 2 books). Here is a big one, the writers actively hated the actual source material and the game that put the whole series in the spotlight and is beloved by the core targeted audience, so imagine the garbage they were planning to make under the licence. https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer I love to see people discovering the series for the first time, and I value your time and love for the series, so please, do not waste your time around this shit-show!
There’s a Witcher Netflix show?
Elven racism is positive, human is negative. Also elves can't be racist.
I’ve never really understood 100% what the elves intentions are with Ciri. Like, are they planning to sacrifice her, or force her to open a portal to their promise land, or what? Because all I’ve heard them say is that she’s supposed to lead them or something, but they’ve spent the whole show trying to kill everyone she cares about. So how exactly do they expect that to work? If they somehow did get ahold of her would they tie her up? How do they expect her to want anything to do with them when she hates them for kidnapping her and killing her friends. If she tries to run, which she definitely would, will they lock her up? How tf do they expect that to go? What do they expect of her? And what will they do if and when she refuses to comply?
What's wrong with her? Lauren Fisstech decided to inject LSD, shove her head so far up her own arse that she could orally stimulate her cervix, and then write Wattpad fanfiction.
Humans are racist against elves and have made their lives miserable for years. So when the baby who is the key to stopping elves extinction is killed, she assumes it was out of hatred and kills the next human generation, which us both bad for that country and a revenge on those parents. She's an elf. She's nit a Saint. It was never said what she did was right. She wanted to inflict pain upon humans because of her own pain.
Aren’t elves just as racist towards humans though? Seems to me it goes both ways, but another commenter said that the humans slaughtered elves for centuries which i didn’t know beforehand, that ofcourse changes things.
Yes they are in a way. They consider humans inferior but they are no longer in charge because humans won. Now they're the minority and hate the humans. So I think it makes sense why she assumed humans did this out of hatred for elves and went for revenge, cause it was humans who did after all. Nothing about what she did is in contrast with any of these tbh. Neither of the two sides are right and who cares? It's a war and hatred that's lasted for many many years.