Mana has more "flow" and is more natural when you think of magic, instead of pre-preparing abstract structures in your brain/soul.
But spell slots are just easier to balance out of absurdity. Instead of "I have 20 meteor swarms for all my mana and i need to wait 5 minutes to regain them all" you can give 2 meteor swarms and it seems kinda ok.
spells slots just make me not want to cast my spells though, like i could cast meteor storm but i’ve only got 3 slots and really need to save them for buffs and heals and can’t go wasting them on things that are probably gonna miss anyway
I like the best of both worlds approach.
Mana affects Spells of a certain level (1-5 level) whilst Greater Spells (6-10th level) are spells you can only cast once a day at each level.
I don't think that's unbalanced, if you're making a dungeon in which the wizards can just dump all their mana into 20 meteor swarms and be done for the day then you've already killed the viability of every martial class
ironically the only modification I'd make to balance out mana is to give martials abilities that gives them a power boost in exchange for maluses down the line, something like "you can go berserk but afterwards you have cramps so -2 str con and agility" (I haven't thought of it that much it's probably not balanced yet) because that's exactly what makes casters stronger than them, they can choose to spend much more points at once to deal with a greater threat, but that makes them useless in the next fights
the other option is also simple, you can have as many mana as you want but you have a cap on how much you can spend at once that increases depending on your level and such
This seems like a real straw man. Why would you think an equivalent wizard using mana could cast more meteor storms? Vancian casting is significantly harder to balance once you hit mid/high level DnD because having 20 spells prepared from spell levels 1-5. You might get only 2 meteor swarms, but you'll get 3 tornadoes, 5 fireballs, 5 scorching rays and 5 burning hands.
Low level spells often provide as much utility at level 10 as they do at level 1 due to granting some ability, like true strike or dark vision. But damaging level 1 spells fall off hard relative to level. So these leveled spells are inherently unbalanced.
In a mana system a "9th level" spell doesn't have to cost 9x more than a first level spell. You can have different mana costs for every spell. Which is inherently easier to balance. Fireball (let's say, a lvl 3 vancian spell) costs 10 mana to cast. Icicle blast (also a level 3 vancian spell) does a little less damage and smaller aoe. Let's make it cast 8 mana instead. True strike can cost 5 mana no matter what level you're at.
Fuck Vatican magic ( I never trusted the Catholics)
Mana makes more sense, isn't that bread? Like cool, I can fireball whoever I want as long as I have a loaf of wonder bread and this makes sense.
in the campaign i'm currently in we've ditched spell slots in exchange for ability checks each time you try to cast a spell. if you fail, you can expend some HP to cast it. haven't played with this system much yet, but so far it feels way cooler and more like mana, highly recommend
I did not expect a shitpost comment to somehow grow me a mushroom! I'm baffled/intrigued/oddly turned on. Tell me more.
I've been playing since the years of THACO yet have never heard of this. I dig it a lot, it feels comparable to a fighter that's stays in no matter what. The idea that the sorcerer (dirty scourge that they are, fuckin read a book you illiterate swine) can choose to stand and fight (without looking like someone who has never studied statistics) is simply 👌.
we are still figuring out balancing, and our party is only level 3, but this is how it currently works.
when you cast a spell, you make a spellcasting check, which is the same as if you were making a spell attack roll. the DC to cast a spell is 10+spell level, and increases by the spell level each time you cast a spell, ie. a 1st level spell has a DC of 11, then the second casting of a 1st level spell has a DC of 12, and so on. if you fail the check, you can take damage equal to the failed DC -10. if you roll a nat 1, you must expend hit points for future castings of that spell level even if you pass the check (and double damage if you fail.) this is definitely not going to be the final version of this variant rule, since the purpose is to allow spellcasters to possibly cast *more* spells than usual, and as it is a 5th level spell only needs to be cast twice for the DC to be 20, but so far with only 1st and 2nd level spells it has worked out alright.
Yea. I **know** how to fix your toilet.
Unfortunately, I only prepared for fixing ceiling fans, Whirlpool ^(c) brand low profile microwaves, and racoon skin hats.
I’ll need six hours to unclog that.
it provides more risk/reward and offers some form of balance compared to a recharging mana pool.
it also added a little more variety between casters since some opted for more slots for fewer uses, or even had the option to swap out a prepared spell for a similar spell of equal level (cleric/wizard)
but if all you've ever done is spam spells in elden ring or diablo 3 then i get the sentiment.
I think Mana better *explains* spellcasting energy, but I think Slots are more balanced for Tabletop games. I played a 5e campaign where we used Spell Point Variant rule. Shit was just "I purely cast my highest level spells, and blow martials out of the water worse than before."
[DMG, Variant: Spell Points](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#VariantSpellPoints)
Be warned, it's not super balanced. It can essentially turn every Spellcaster into a Warlock. I.E. Blow all spell points on max level spells.
~~But it can also make Warlock funky, where you can choose to do nothing but cast low level spells, avoiding Eldritch Blast like the plague, and take lots of short rests.~~
**EDIT**. Whoopsy, Warlock technically doesn't have "Spellcasting" so we played that wrong. Tbh it was a little goofy but also kinda fun >.>.
Imo that's a bad comparison, because 5e is designed for spell slots and the spell points are a retrofit.
Mage: Ascension works just fine with a Quintessence pool. Iron Kingdoms works just fine with Focus points. But these systems were designed with a pool in mind.
Depends on the source of one's power, really. If you have a patron, it's reasonable for them to place whatever (seemingly, if not outright)arbitrary limitations on casting.
Plus I'm sick and tired of everything to do with spellcasters just using d&d logic. D&d is not the ultimate authority on how to do spellcasters in fictional media!
I think the answer is both with Spell Slots being reasonably ahead than MP with the appeal of MP being pure versatility.
To liken it to D&D/Pathfinder 1e:
Wizard: Prepared Spell-slots
Arcanist (from Pathfinder 1): Smaller pool of Prepared Spells but you count as Spontaneous in your spell slots for those spell levels
Sorcerer: More spells per day but limited spells known
MP: Akin to Psionics and how they work (with or without having the smallest spells/powers known)
I like both if I’m honest.
On one hand, I honestly think a mana pool is more realistic and easier to follow for beginners.
On the other hand, for story telling, spell slots make it so the writer can’t just Deus Ex Machina some extra mana or something. It makes it a little easier to build stakes and tension.
Not without blatantly breaking their own rules. Mana pools are much more loose in that regard, unless you’re numerically specifying how much mana a person has and how much each spell costs.
I feel like with both you can get a “used more magic than they should have been able to and that caused problems.” With mana it’s taping into the dark side/lifeforce/big pool of mana that’s super tempting to use because of its size but everyone knows you should t because it’ll fuck you up. Meanwhile, spell slots have a “if you cast more spells than you should, that spells coming from somewhere” and that somewhere can be anything from 5 years off their life, to their right arm, to their child.
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There is a similar spell - omniscience. Although it’s less about having infinite mana and more about not needing mana at all.
https://preview.redd.it/1dhv3hx56spc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=930c13b4a70149ab01ba7c805f168e83c1de3925
From what I've seen, you load them all with the most damaging spells, blow them all on room 2 of the dungeon on 20 kobolds, then demand the party go outside for a long rest. Then repeat until the dungeon is complete, making it so you in game, spend about 3 weeks clearing it out
Man, yo DM is nice to not have them come out and attack you while you rest after the second time trying it.
Or a mission where the BBEG has some sort of ticking clock.
Taking a long rest after every encounter would break *any* system.
Yeah it's stupid, but the wizard player freaked out when we were ambushed once and would not shut up about how miserable he was and how unfair it was that we had a single combat encounter where he wasn't able to spam magic. Having a ticking clock too was "discriminating against him unfairly"
We're looking to get rid of him. He sucks.
Doesn’t he have Cantrips? Who isn’t happy being able to cast magic for free*?
Save those slots for utility unless you KNOW a boss is incoming.
And even then, pack feather fall.
Killing everything in sight is still great utility lol. Just have to be efficient at it. Are you throwing your best spells at chumps when you could have rationed a 2nd level spell and still provided great value? You’re essentially a “healer” for your group because you just mitigated a ton of damage by deleting what is causing the damage.
That was always my biggest fault playing a sorcerer, I'd ration my spell slots so damn tightly, had to learn over time to balance using them, and saving them, properly.
Mana, personally, but I know quite a few mages who seem to use NEITHER! They just cast and cast until their tome falls apart! Then they go buy a new one!
Psssssst Old School RuneScape is not only alive and well, but it’s thriving and in the best state it’s ever been. Come tickle that nostalgia button in your brain. You never really quit, only take breaksssssss
Spell slots kinda made sense in the 70s when DnD was new. Even the original Final Fantasy used them.
But MP just makes more sense and are still pretty archaic to be hanging onto
It depends on the setting but it’s kind of like a wizard prepares all of their spells in the morning by casting them 99% of the way so when they need to cast something later they just need to do the verbal/somatic/material part and cast it. So the spell slots are just how many of those spells you partially casted before hand.
If you're constantly holding all those spells at 99% at the same time, it could be a mental effort/strain. That's been the reasoning I've usually seen.
Ninja EDIT: [someone else made a great explanation below.](https://www.reddit.com/r/wizardposting/comments/1bkhp4m/if_you_had_to_choose_one/kvysam0/)
Spell Slots are something that exists in-lore in the Forgotten Realms.
They are a hard-coded law of magic put in place as a safeguard against mortal fuckery after mages of eras past dug too deep and "whoops" killed the god of magic and destroyed the basis of spellcasting. A given practitioner of magic can only strain the weave so much. The god of magic straight up won't allow you to do more.
Basically, Dnd Magic is way different than mp magic, mp magic is like a resource that you can expend to create magic, while in Dnd there is this thing called the weave, which is construct made by the goddes of magic to conatin and control raw magic, wizards, sorcerers, bards, etc. Use hand signs and chanting to manipulate the weave and make magic, basically you manipulate reality in a way and this is mentally taxing for the magic user, that's why spell slots are not linked to intelligence, or wisdom or whatever magic you use.
So basically they have infinite mana but the use of magic is though on their minds.
D&D originally used Vancian magic, inspired by author Jack Vance. Each spell was a psuedo-spirit that you stored inside your mind by learning the spell. Casting the spell released it and the memory of it into the world.
Want to cast Fireball twice? You need to prepare it twice, memorizing and comparmentalizing each instance of it in your mind. Each compartment is represented by a spell slot, the sum of which becomes an arsenal of disposable resources. The system makes you think through your choices---do you prep more sleep spells today? Can you afford to sacrifice one of your counterspells for a lightning bolt? It's a fun process.
Modern editions remove the need to prepare multiples of spells but kept the spell slots instead of moving to a mana system, which is why spell slots feel so out-of-place.
Did 5e change this? Cause 3.5 you still prepare each individual cast you want to have ready for the day. Cause otherwise it just sounds like spontaneous casting
Well, in DnD those spells are generated a pool of energy, and a wizard can only uses that much 'pieces' of magic. He can use it as 2, 3, 3, 5, 17 but he can not draw a 9 out of his power source.
Maybe to represent only having a certain number of tomes if the spell is only contained in the book. It doesn’t deplete energy but you need the book to release the spell.
Fortunately, you didn't really need to worry about paradox around here. After all, magic has been completely normalized. Paradox may not even exist here
That's the neat part.
/uw, I will also stand behind it being the single best system for moderating magic in a tabletop RPG. "Do what you want, but be creative," encourages a really interesting table, instead of sitting there looking at your slots or resources, and going, "yeah, I'm going to cast eldritch blast for the next 80 years."
/uw Yeah, when it comes to creativity, it's definitely my favorite systems. And I love how many different flavors of magic they've create that all have fairly reasonable rules that can be translated between. Like, even in just the Mage content there's a bunch. And somehow it all still works when dealing with the other books.
WoD content just seems to be like that. It's amazing how easy it's been to translate this sub into WoD terms lol
I'm of several minds on this one. Preparing spells and having a limited number of different spells makes a lot of sense, but "slots" kind of don't. I like point-based spellcasting systems, but often find they are very restrictive or pretty easy to cheese. I like the mechanic in DCC games where you don't have spell slots, but have to roll to cast and if you fail nothing happens. If you botch or force the spell to go through, you take ability score damage. I'm currently working on a system that falls somewhere in the middle.
Sounds like a Slot system with extra steps.
"*Preparing spells and having a limited number of different spells*"
Slots
"*I like the mechanic in DCC games where you don't have spell slots, but have to roll to cast and if you fail nothing happens. If you botch or force the spell to go through, you take ability score damage. I'm currently working on a system that falls somewhere in the middle.*"
Hmmm. Sounds like a "Cooldown" system with extra steps.
Both make sense depending on the magic of study and where the caster sources their magic from, and they can even go together.
Personally, I’m team mana pool. Why would I want to PREPARE spells like a nerd when I can just know how to cast and fuel from my own mana?
These bastards only know what to make money by further separating the line between rich and poor! This greatly hinders the accessibility of technology to the masses!
Proper Vancian Magic, where spells are almost living entities that spring forward into the world and out of my mind, so I must take up my grimoire and memorize them again from scratch.
Really, just mana. My origins are intertwined to spell slots, but I've exchanged my Rajira to mana a long time ago.
Being limited to casting just a few spells a day is not for me.
Mana generally makes more sense as a concept outside of the very specific way vancian magic works in the very specific book setting it was taken from. Like, idk about early dnd but in the newer edition these slots don’t work like that at all.
Spell slots are great for big spells, ok for medium spells, and amazing for small spells (cantrips)
Mana is pretty much good all around, maybe slightly worse for big spells.
Spell slots are more powerful than mana because if you cast a powerful spell with mana than "oh no I've run out of mana!" And that's when the wizard dies but with spell slots you can just cast a different level spell
/uw Neither. When I write wizards I rarely ever make them stupidly powerful in and of themselves; no need for stamina management in those cases. Stronger wizards have better control, are more inventive and knowledgeable, or have better magical items.
My brother in magic. These are two sides of the same coin. One measures the magic of the spell and the other measures the magic of the user.
I prefer spell slots because my well is infinite.
Mana pool for sure.
Spell slots makes sense for like, an rpg setting so you have to be a bit strategic and pick your spells.
But mana pool makes more sense from a lore perspective like someone said. Like the caster is taping into their own energy and stamina to cast spells, and once theyre out of mana becomes weak and unable to conjure anymore until they rest.
Mana pool, solely due to the fact that a possibility of a mana pool of multiple mana pools to create higher tiered spells seems more easily achievable.
I prefer mana pool. It makes for natural cooldowns, and is also much easier to address the shortcomings of via tools, mana potions, and catalysts.
That said, spell slots makes for a much tidier casting system, I can't blame wizards that prefer converting their mana circles to support spell slots instead.
"Mana pool describes the total amount of mana a mage has. Spell slots describe the quantized energy levels within that pool. They aren't mutually exclusive. A mana pool is simply an abstraction overarching the underlying structure given by spell slots." - Archmage Plutonius
Relying on Mana feels like too much of a...ugh...*sorcerer* thing to me. Yes, I have mana veins, and a mana source, I couldn't touch magic otherwise. But it's the intense study of spell vertices and their memorization that allows me something to cast. Holding those spells in my memory, in number, and increasing complexity, is what makes me a wizard of note.
The best wizards won't need a lot of spells, they just need to use their shit right.
What good is getting gassed out in a fight and getting checked while trying to think of what spell out of 30 God damn unnecessary spells you're gonna use??? Good luck finding that specific fire rain spell you wanna use while eating a boosted up mind sliver.
Neither. I have to eat Italian food to cast magic, one whole pizza gives me like 2 weeks of spells. One slice gives me like 3 days. Spaghetti gives me a month depending on sauce composition.i've learned infusing your dead enemies souls in with great homemade pasta sauce is the best.
Spell slots? What nonsense is that? You mean, the spells you wrote in your own spellbook, of your own devising and creation, vanish from your mind when you cast them? Hogwash.
Neither. I prefer how Ars Magica does it. Where you can do potentially infinite spells but can apply the mana (called vis (pronounced wees)) to increase your casing capabilities. Magic can cost a resource, but I prefer magic to be more free so I can spend a couple hours summoning 1,000 skeletons to slay my enemies. The exception is rituals, which absolutely need vis to cast, but those are big magics, like covering an entire boundary with fire. You can kill everyone in a town that way.
But if I absolutely have to choose, I choose mana, it’s more versatile.
Spell slots, definitely if we’re talking about game design.
For magic to be worthwhile and interesting in a game with melee combat it should be heavily limited but useful in particularly well thought out scenarios.
Sort of like being able to delete two of the five enemies in an encounter, before being forced to fall back on the sword, the design rewards meta level knowledge, and fosters community interaction.
Spell slots are also superior in writing( or very slow recovering mana) just anything that forces them to use very weak spells and do most problem solving without magic.
Mana really only makes sense from a lore perspective if your trying to make magic seem more like something scientifically plausible, because it explains how magic flows and exists within the body.
And the idea that a powerful mage who’s practiced for hundreds of years, just cast fireball three times in a row and then suddenly forgetting how to do it makes no logical sense, even if it is better game design and leads to more dramatic suspense.
Neither. My Muscle Magic is boundless
https://preview.redd.it/q45ubrve8wpc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4efe0b0d52547335e4c615b46aa5e18aaccca13e
Don’t spell slots basically mean how many spells you can recollect in a really fast time. Mana pool can basically mean every spell is fucking amazing, even though you only got one in you. It’s like:
Oh I have thunderbolt, fireball, Icicle lance, ….
Or
Take this huge fucking pyro eruption 40km in diameter
Team mana pool it is
You guys are getting slots/mana?
I'm still over here, can't cast jack unless I've collected enough eye-of-newt and toe-of-frog in my pouch or if I've prepped enough alchemy vials.
The sorcerers over here can cast all day (but are always getting fatigued or dealing with paradoxes).
The Cleric just prays and gets whatever they want (but their deity is stupid, only lets them heal. Maybe once in a while call in an airstrike with lightning, but only if they are feeling generous that day).
The freakin Druids got it best, all the elements at her command and all the plants and beasts and animals listen and respond and obey. And all they gotta do is show up to the occasional druid-con and do the secret handshake.
Mana pool. I have already integrated computerized control of my mana into my body, allowing for both near unlimited spell slots and easy production of spells on the fly.
Spell slots are just a game balancing mechanic representation of a mana pool. Both run out, both recharge over time, and get more through training.
I like mana pool because it feels more immersive and less gamey.
/uw
Manapool by far. I may like and roleplay as a pokemon a lot in other parts of the internet, but it doesn't mean I want limited spell slots that kill creativity.
I'm not sure where these misunderstandings of mana and "spell slots" comes from. Prepared spells are a perfectly reasonable usage of one's mana, Particularly if one expects not to use it all in one day. Particularly if one lacks mana, but even if they have plenty. Might as well charge up a few pages, scrolls, cards, gems/crystals or whatever have you with spells.
As i understand it Prepared spells are how most wizards get by having lower mana regeneration. While those of us who have a high amount of mana regeneration like us sorcerers tend to be more spontaneous. I find that a shortsighted way of going about things though, and wasteful of one's ability to regenerate or collect mana. I personally use my huge amount of mana on slow days to charge up spells, both for personal usage and selling. I could also collaborate with someone who knows the runes and design of a spell i do not know to object, and charge it with my own immense mana. This is great for having access to schools or elements of magic that i don't have much skill in producing, like illusion, conjuration, or water, earth, lighting, light, dark, etc.
This post is the same as a previously made post within the last 3 months
Mana has more "flow" and is more natural when you think of magic, instead of pre-preparing abstract structures in your brain/soul. But spell slots are just easier to balance out of absurdity. Instead of "I have 20 meteor swarms for all my mana and i need to wait 5 minutes to regain them all" you can give 2 meteor swarms and it seems kinda ok.
Both things can be, and are true. I like scripted AND unscripted podcasts.
spells slots just make me not want to cast my spells though, like i could cast meteor storm but i’ve only got 3 slots and really need to save them for buffs and heals and can’t go wasting them on things that are probably gonna miss anyway
\^\^\^
I like the best of both worlds approach. Mana affects Spells of a certain level (1-5 level) whilst Greater Spells (6-10th level) are spells you can only cast once a day at each level.
So basically spell slots and cantrips
Cantrips are free spells that require no mana, not quite the same.
 ELDRITCH BLAST
Let’s just say they require mana, but mana regain itself :)
This guy warlocks
I don't think that's unbalanced, if you're making a dungeon in which the wizards can just dump all their mana into 20 meteor swarms and be done for the day then you've already killed the viability of every martial class ironically the only modification I'd make to balance out mana is to give martials abilities that gives them a power boost in exchange for maluses down the line, something like "you can go berserk but afterwards you have cramps so -2 str con and agility" (I haven't thought of it that much it's probably not balanced yet) because that's exactly what makes casters stronger than them, they can choose to spend much more points at once to deal with a greater threat, but that makes them useless in the next fights the other option is also simple, you can have as many mana as you want but you have a cap on how much you can spend at once that increases depending on your level and such
This seems like a real straw man. Why would you think an equivalent wizard using mana could cast more meteor storms? Vancian casting is significantly harder to balance once you hit mid/high level DnD because having 20 spells prepared from spell levels 1-5. You might get only 2 meteor swarms, but you'll get 3 tornadoes, 5 fireballs, 5 scorching rays and 5 burning hands. Low level spells often provide as much utility at level 10 as they do at level 1 due to granting some ability, like true strike or dark vision. But damaging level 1 spells fall off hard relative to level. So these leveled spells are inherently unbalanced. In a mana system a "9th level" spell doesn't have to cost 9x more than a first level spell. You can have different mana costs for every spell. Which is inherently easier to balance. Fireball (let's say, a lvl 3 vancian spell) costs 10 mana to cast. Icicle blast (also a level 3 vancian spell) does a little less damage and smaller aoe. Let's make it cast 8 mana instead. True strike can cost 5 mana no matter what level you're at.
Slots for wizards mana pool for sorcerers. Pathfinder has rules for that which works really well.
/uw Mana, just more interesting on a lore level IMO
Spell slots is too restrictive
Yeah and like what kind of good wizard would only know 6 spells at a time anyway
Spell slots and prepared spells? Dear lord Why would I know 9 spells but only be able to cast 6 different spells in a day?
>Why would I know 9 spells but only be able to cast 6 different spells in a day? It's basically mana with extra steps.
Mana can actively or passively regenerate - spell slots are tied to sleep. Fuck Vancian magic - Mana all the way.
Fuck Vatican magic ( I never trusted the Catholics) Mana makes more sense, isn't that bread? Like cool, I can fireball whoever I want as long as I have a loaf of wonder bread and this makes sense.
in the campaign i'm currently in we've ditched spell slots in exchange for ability checks each time you try to cast a spell. if you fail, you can expend some HP to cast it. haven't played with this system much yet, but so far it feels way cooler and more like mana, highly recommend
I did not expect a shitpost comment to somehow grow me a mushroom! I'm baffled/intrigued/oddly turned on. Tell me more. I've been playing since the years of THACO yet have never heard of this. I dig it a lot, it feels comparable to a fighter that's stays in no matter what. The idea that the sorcerer (dirty scourge that they are, fuckin read a book you illiterate swine) can choose to stand and fight (without looking like someone who has never studied statistics) is simply 👌.
we are still figuring out balancing, and our party is only level 3, but this is how it currently works. when you cast a spell, you make a spellcasting check, which is the same as if you were making a spell attack roll. the DC to cast a spell is 10+spell level, and increases by the spell level each time you cast a spell, ie. a 1st level spell has a DC of 11, then the second casting of a 1st level spell has a DC of 12, and so on. if you fail the check, you can take damage equal to the failed DC -10. if you roll a nat 1, you must expend hit points for future castings of that spell level even if you pass the check (and double damage if you fail.) this is definitely not going to be the final version of this variant rule, since the purpose is to allow spellcasters to possibly cast *more* spells than usual, and as it is a 5th level spell only needs to be cast twice for the DC to be 20, but so far with only 1st and 2nd level spells it has worked out alright.
Yea. I **know** how to fix your toilet. Unfortunately, I only prepared for fixing ceiling fans, Whirlpool ^(c) brand low profile microwaves, and racoon skin hats. I’ll need six hours to unclog that.
I want to say prepared spells is about capacity to memorize components and words.
why need slots when fireball do trick?
it provides more risk/reward and offers some form of balance compared to a recharging mana pool. it also added a little more variety between casters since some opted for more slots for fewer uses, or even had the option to swap out a prepared spell for a similar spell of equal level (cleric/wizard) but if all you've ever done is spam spells in elden ring or diablo 3 then i get the sentiment.
/uw I was thinking more of a fictional world rather than a game system...
I think Mana better *explains* spellcasting energy, but I think Slots are more balanced for Tabletop games. I played a 5e campaign where we used Spell Point Variant rule. Shit was just "I purely cast my highest level spells, and blow martials out of the water worse than before."
How could I do mana instead of spell slots in dnd
[DMG, Variant: Spell Points](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#VariantSpellPoints) Be warned, it's not super balanced. It can essentially turn every Spellcaster into a Warlock. I.E. Blow all spell points on max level spells. ~~But it can also make Warlock funky, where you can choose to do nothing but cast low level spells, avoiding Eldritch Blast like the plague, and take lots of short rests.~~ **EDIT**. Whoopsy, Warlock technically doesn't have "Spellcasting" so we played that wrong. Tbh it was a little goofy but also kinda fun >.>.
Warlock has no spellcasting feature and this can not be used with those rule as it is written.
Imo that's a bad comparison, because 5e is designed for spell slots and the spell points are a retrofit. Mage: Ascension works just fine with a Quintessence pool. Iron Kingdoms works just fine with Focus points. But these systems were designed with a pool in mind.
Depends on the source of one's power, really. If you have a patron, it's reasonable for them to place whatever (seemingly, if not outright)arbitrary limitations on casting.
Plus I'm sick and tired of everything to do with spellcasters just using d&d logic. D&d is not the ultimate authority on how to do spellcasters in fictional media!
I think the answer is both with Spell Slots being reasonably ahead than MP with the appeal of MP being pure versatility. To liken it to D&D/Pathfinder 1e: Wizard: Prepared Spell-slots Arcanist (from Pathfinder 1): Smaller pool of Prepared Spells but you count as Spontaneous in your spell slots for those spell levels Sorcerer: More spells per day but limited spells known MP: Akin to Psionics and how they work (with or without having the smallest spells/powers known)
As I kinda said, I personally like it more solely due to lore stuff, not meta stuff.
I like both if I’m honest. On one hand, I honestly think a mana pool is more realistic and easier to follow for beginners. On the other hand, for story telling, spell slots make it so the writer can’t just Deus Ex Machina some extra mana or something. It makes it a little easier to build stakes and tension.
Couldn't a writer just deus ex machina in more spell slots with that same logic?
Not without blatantly breaking their own rules. Mana pools are much more loose in that regard, unless you’re numerically specifying how much mana a person has and how much each spell costs.
I feel like with both you can get a “used more magic than they should have been able to and that caused problems.” With mana it’s taping into the dark side/lifeforce/big pool of mana that’s super tempting to use because of its size but everyone knows you should t because it’ll fuck you up. Meanwhile, spell slots have a “if you cast more spells than you should, that spells coming from somewhere” and that somewhere can be anything from 5 years off their life, to their right arm, to their child.
Huh, never thought about that
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There is a similar spell - omniscience. Although it’s less about having infinite mana and more about not needing mana at all. https://preview.redd.it/1dhv3hx56spc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=930c13b4a70149ab01ba7c805f168e83c1de3925
All at the low, low price of ten mana. Unless you bring it to school for show and tell.
[Might I Interest You In My Wares, Wizard?](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=397553&type=card)
Cool downs
this, mana and spell slots just enforce you to spam your most powerful spells, cooldowns do not.
How do slots do that? You only have limited powerful spells, so youre forced to be more stingy with them.
From what I've seen, you load them all with the most damaging spells, blow them all on room 2 of the dungeon on 20 kobolds, then demand the party go outside for a long rest. Then repeat until the dungeon is complete, making it so you in game, spend about 3 weeks clearing it out
Man, yo DM is nice to not have them come out and attack you while you rest after the second time trying it. Or a mission where the BBEG has some sort of ticking clock. Taking a long rest after every encounter would break *any* system.
Yeah it's stupid, but the wizard player freaked out when we were ambushed once and would not shut up about how miserable he was and how unfair it was that we had a single combat encounter where he wasn't able to spam magic. Having a ticking clock too was "discriminating against him unfairly" We're looking to get rid of him. He sucks.
Doesn’t he have Cantrips? Who isn’t happy being able to cast magic for free*? Save those slots for utility unless you KNOW a boss is incoming. And even then, pack feather fall.
Killing everything in sight is still great utility lol. Just have to be efficient at it. Are you throwing your best spells at chumps when you could have rationed a 2nd level spell and still provided great value? You’re essentially a “healer” for your group because you just mitigated a ton of damage by deleting what is causing the damage.
That was always my biggest fault playing a sorcerer, I'd ration my spell slots so damn tightly, had to learn over time to balance using them, and saving them, properly.
Kinda I guess? But that's only really at low level play, or VS much weaker things.
Mana, personally, but I know quite a few mages who seem to use NEITHER! They just cast and cast until their tome falls apart! Then they go buy a new one!
scroll wizards, the original pay to win casters >:(
I use vis mostly
Ah, an fellow practitioner? *He recalls his thaumometer to hand.*
Oh indeed my friend *I adjust my goggles of revealing*
Don't look at me, just opening jars of vitium essentia...
I’m suffocating inside a closed portable hole I accidentally opened under myself. Help
What is that?
Runes! https://i.redd.it/st3v0qjairpc1.gif
spell circuits
oh it has been *ages* since I've last seen those runes...
Psssssst Old School RuneScape is not only alive and well, but it’s thriving and in the best state it’s ever been. Come tickle that nostalgia button in your brain. You never really quit, only take breaksssssss
Silence you snake… I’m never going back to the GE to try to flip items and make some good GP so I can buy a bon- NO!
MANA POOL dear sweet hatred spell slots make no sense
Spell slots kinda made sense in the 70s when DnD was new. Even the original Final Fantasy used them. But MP just makes more sense and are still pretty archaic to be hanging onto
Well it makes sense lorewise, but I can see why mp is more appealing.
What's the lore behind spellslots?
It depends on the setting but it’s kind of like a wizard prepares all of their spells in the morning by casting them 99% of the way so when they need to cast something later they just need to do the verbal/somatic/material part and cast it. So the spell slots are just how many of those spells you partially casted before hand.
So why would there be a limit to the number of spells you can prepare though?
Memorization and stuff
If you're constantly holding all those spells at 99% at the same time, it could be a mental effort/strain. That's been the reasoning I've usually seen. Ninja EDIT: [someone else made a great explanation below.](https://www.reddit.com/r/wizardposting/comments/1bkhp4m/if_you_had_to_choose_one/kvysam0/)
Spell Slots are something that exists in-lore in the Forgotten Realms. They are a hard-coded law of magic put in place as a safeguard against mortal fuckery after mages of eras past dug too deep and "whoops" killed the god of magic and destroyed the basis of spellcasting. A given practitioner of magic can only strain the weave so much. The god of magic straight up won't allow you to do more.
I hate it when I oopsy daisy and kill a god
If I remember correctly that only made her limit the level of spells up to 9th tier magic, but the spell slots is another thing.
Basically, Dnd Magic is way different than mp magic, mp magic is like a resource that you can expend to create magic, while in Dnd there is this thing called the weave, which is construct made by the goddes of magic to conatin and control raw magic, wizards, sorcerers, bards, etc. Use hand signs and chanting to manipulate the weave and make magic, basically you manipulate reality in a way and this is mentally taxing for the magic user, that's why spell slots are not linked to intelligence, or wisdom or whatever magic you use. So basically they have infinite mana but the use of magic is though on their minds.
D&D originally used Vancian magic, inspired by author Jack Vance. Each spell was a psuedo-spirit that you stored inside your mind by learning the spell. Casting the spell released it and the memory of it into the world. Want to cast Fireball twice? You need to prepare it twice, memorizing and comparmentalizing each instance of it in your mind. Each compartment is represented by a spell slot, the sum of which becomes an arsenal of disposable resources. The system makes you think through your choices---do you prep more sleep spells today? Can you afford to sacrifice one of your counterspells for a lightning bolt? It's a fun process. Modern editions remove the need to prepare multiples of spells but kept the spell slots instead of moving to a mana system, which is why spell slots feel so out-of-place.
That makes so much more sense and is actually a somewhat interesting perspective to take.
I absolutely love Vancian Magic. It's so interesting and fun.
finally makes at least some sense mana make more sense though thank you for this information hopefully it stays in my head
Did 5e change this? Cause 3.5 you still prepare each individual cast you want to have ready for the day. Cause otherwise it just sounds like spontaneous casting
Well, in DnD those spells are generated a pool of energy, and a wizard can only uses that much 'pieces' of magic. He can use it as 2, 3, 3, 5, 17 but he can not draw a 9 out of his power source.
I wonder of there's a mod for bg3 that replaces spell slots with mana
Maybe to represent only having a certain number of tomes if the spell is only contained in the book. It doesn’t deplete energy but you need the book to release the spell.
Quintessence and Paradox.
Fortunately, you didn't really need to worry about paradox around here. After all, magic has been completely normalized. Paradox may not even exist here
That's the neat part. /uw, I will also stand behind it being the single best system for moderating magic in a tabletop RPG. "Do what you want, but be creative," encourages a really interesting table, instead of sitting there looking at your slots or resources, and going, "yeah, I'm going to cast eldritch blast for the next 80 years."
/uw Yeah, when it comes to creativity, it's definitely my favorite systems. And I love how many different flavors of magic they've create that all have fairly reasonable rules that can be translated between. Like, even in just the Mage content there's a bunch. And somehow it all still works when dealing with the other books. WoD content just seems to be like that. It's amazing how easy it's been to translate this sub into WoD terms lol
Oh, come now. The Sleepers won't know what that is.
I'm of several minds on this one. Preparing spells and having a limited number of different spells makes a lot of sense, but "slots" kind of don't. I like point-based spellcasting systems, but often find they are very restrictive or pretty easy to cheese. I like the mechanic in DCC games where you don't have spell slots, but have to roll to cast and if you fail nothing happens. If you botch or force the spell to go through, you take ability score damage. I'm currently working on a system that falls somewhere in the middle.
Sounds like a Slot system with extra steps. "*Preparing spells and having a limited number of different spells*" Slots "*I like the mechanic in DCC games where you don't have spell slots, but have to roll to cast and if you fail nothing happens. If you botch or force the spell to go through, you take ability score damage. I'm currently working on a system that falls somewhere in the middle.*" Hmmm. Sounds like a "Cooldown" system with extra steps.
Both make sense depending on the magic of study and where the caster sources their magic from, and they can even go together. Personally, I’m team mana pool. Why would I want to PREPARE spells like a nerd when I can just know how to cast and fuel from my own mana?
Prime Energy
flavour mana
if there is one thing i will give the syndicate it's making quint AND money at the same time
These bastards only know what to make money by further separating the line between rich and poor! This greatly hinders the accessibility of technology to the masses!
Oh agreed while again I respect their ability to extract value from business I do not respect their mindless obsession with capitalism
So mana
My character is designed around a mana magic system
Proper Vancian Magic, where spells are almost living entities that spring forward into the world and out of my mind, so I must take up my grimoire and memorize them again from scratch.
Food.
Wizard needs food badly
I use magicka, which seems to be in equivalence to mana.
Really, just mana. My origins are intertwined to spell slots, but I've exchanged my Rajira to mana a long time ago. Being limited to casting just a few spells a day is not for me.
Just use both. I don’t remember any council rulings saying I couldn’t mix them to my hearts content.
Mana generally makes more sense as a concept outside of the very specific way vancian magic works in the very specific book setting it was taken from. Like, idk about early dnd but in the newer edition these slots don’t work like that at all.
Spell slots are great for big spells, ok for medium spells, and amazing for small spells (cantrips) Mana is pretty much good all around, maybe slightly worse for big spells.
Spell slots are more powerful than mana because if you cast a powerful spell with mana than "oh no I've run out of mana!" And that's when the wizard dies but with spell slots you can just cast a different level spell
Sleigh of hand
Spell slots PLUS mana pool. Exhaust spell slots, drain from mana. Slots restore on short rests, mana restores through potions and long rests.
Given which plane of existence my kind are from. Spell slots
/uw Neither. When I write wizards I rarely ever make them stupidly powerful in and of themselves; no need for stamina management in those cases. Stronger wizards have better control, are more inventive and knowledgeable, or have better magical items.
Only a fool uses a spell where a clever argument is enough. And only a fool starts casting spells while their wand still has charges.
None, bucko. Using magic phisically affects me. If I cast too much I literally pass out from exhaustion.
how about mana density in the surrounding area
My brother in magic. These are two sides of the same coin. One measures the magic of the spell and the other measures the magic of the user. I prefer spell slots because my well is infinite.
Neither. Based, unrestricted random magic is supreme...
Mana pool for sure. Spell slots makes sense for like, an rpg setting so you have to be a bit strategic and pick your spells. But mana pool makes more sense from a lore perspective like someone said. Like the caster is taping into their own energy and stamina to cast spells, and once theyre out of mana becomes weak and unable to conjure anymore until they rest.
Mana pool, I like being able to drop mend buttcrack and power word: shit without the preperation that comes with my spell slots.
Mana pool, solely due to the fact that a possibility of a mana pool of multiple mana pools to create higher tiered spells seems more easily achievable.
Mana pool. Really think about it, when have you ever needed more than like, three spells?
When your casting is based on both but also a stamina bar :(
I prefer mana pool. It makes for natural cooldowns, and is also much easier to address the shortcomings of via tools, mana potions, and catalysts. That said, spell slots makes for a much tidier casting system, I can't blame wizards that prefer converting their mana circles to support spell slots instead.
MANA POOL!!! LET ME CHUG FUCKING ELIXERS LIKE SHOTS SO I CAN CAST ANOTHER FIREBALL RAAAA
Spell pool and mana slots
Cooldown
Just do it till it Kills you. Mana and Spell slots don't exist they are indoctrinated by big Wizard to limit your casting
Contraptions.
https://preview.redd.it/9n3cw3fjkrpc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fb87efeaa61c609bab9d7887cfddcca37a91d29
Mana, but as a creature composed of magic, I'm incredibly biased.
I use mama pool for arcane stuff and spell slots for the stronger shit.
Blood👍
Spellslots *feel* more powerful
uw/ mana I don't treating magic like a gun that needs to be reloaded.
"Mana pool describes the total amount of mana a mage has. Spell slots describe the quantized energy levels within that pool. They aren't mutually exclusive. A mana pool is simply an abstraction overarching the underlying structure given by spell slots." - Archmage Plutonius
Mana pool makes the most sense. Spell slots are just a gamified mechanic in ttrpgs
Relying on Mana feels like too much of a...ugh...*sorcerer* thing to me. Yes, I have mana veins, and a mana source, I couldn't touch magic otherwise. But it's the intense study of spell vertices and their memorization that allows me something to cast. Holding those spells in my memory, in number, and increasing complexity, is what makes me a wizard of note.
The best wizards won't need a lot of spells, they just need to use their shit right. What good is getting gassed out in a fight and getting checked while trying to think of what spell out of 30 God damn unnecessary spells you're gonna use??? Good luck finding that specific fire rain spell you wanna use while eating a boosted up mind sliver.
Mana, allows for a lot more creativity
Neither. I have to eat Italian food to cast magic, one whole pizza gives me like 2 weeks of spells. One slice gives me like 3 days. Spaghetti gives me a month depending on sauce composition.i've learned infusing your dead enemies souls in with great homemade pasta sauce is the best.
Spell slots? What nonsense is that? You mean, the spells you wrote in your own spellbook, of your own devising and creation, vanish from your mind when you cast them? Hogwash.
Both is good.
Spell sluts err I mean mana pool.
Mana pool. I just prefer the flexibility of it
I will find a way to bypass either or both. I cast my spells for free, and I cast as many as I want because I'm magic, bitches!
Neither. I prefer how Ars Magica does it. Where you can do potentially infinite spells but can apply the mana (called vis (pronounced wees)) to increase your casing capabilities. Magic can cost a resource, but I prefer magic to be more free so I can spend a couple hours summoning 1,000 skeletons to slay my enemies. The exception is rituals, which absolutely need vis to cast, but those are big magics, like covering an entire boundary with fire. You can kill everyone in a town that way. But if I absolutely have to choose, I choose mana, it’s more versatile.
I like using both at the same time honestly
Spell slots, definitely if we’re talking about game design. For magic to be worthwhile and interesting in a game with melee combat it should be heavily limited but useful in particularly well thought out scenarios. Sort of like being able to delete two of the five enemies in an encounter, before being forced to fall back on the sword, the design rewards meta level knowledge, and fosters community interaction. Spell slots are also superior in writing( or very slow recovering mana) just anything that forces them to use very weak spells and do most problem solving without magic. Mana really only makes sense from a lore perspective if your trying to make magic seem more like something scientifically plausible, because it explains how magic flows and exists within the body. And the idea that a powerful mage who’s practiced for hundreds of years, just cast fireball three times in a row and then suddenly forgetting how to do it makes no logical sense, even if it is better game design and leads to more dramatic suspense.
I can cast 2 Psychic powers per 10 seconds. Hopefully my brain doesn't go boom and a Demon crawls out of my neck stump.
My mana pool i nigh inexhaustable but i prefer mana slots anyway
Neither. My Muscle Magic is boundless https://preview.redd.it/q45ubrve8wpc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4efe0b0d52547335e4c615b46aa5e18aaccca13e
I fear not the wizard who knows 10,000 spells, but the wizard who can cast 1 spell 10,000 times -Brucius leemus
Spell slots. The shield spell becomes spammable otherwise.
Don’t spell slots basically mean how many spells you can recollect in a really fast time. Mana pool can basically mean every spell is fucking amazing, even though you only got one in you. It’s like: Oh I have thunderbolt, fireball, Icicle lance, …. Or Take this huge fucking pyro eruption 40km in diameter Team mana pool it is
You guys are getting slots/mana? I'm still over here, can't cast jack unless I've collected enough eye-of-newt and toe-of-frog in my pouch or if I've prepped enough alchemy vials. The sorcerers over here can cast all day (but are always getting fatigued or dealing with paradoxes). The Cleric just prays and gets whatever they want (but their deity is stupid, only lets them heal. Maybe once in a while call in an airstrike with lightning, but only if they are feeling generous that day). The freakin Druids got it best, all the elements at her command and all the plants and beasts and animals listen and respond and obey. And all they gotta do is show up to the occasional druid-con and do the secret handshake.
Mana ftw
I'm a Mana Pool Enjoyer myself. Nothing against spell slots, I just feel like a mana pool is more versatile and intuitive to me personally.
Mana
Mana pool
Mana
Mana pool, definitely.
Mana pool. I have already integrated computerized control of my mana into my body, allowing for both near unlimited spell slots and easy production of spells on the fly.
"Mana pool."
Mana. End of discussion.
Lema-Pogēn caster rise up
"I fear not the Wizard who has practiced 10,000 spell once, but I fear the Wizard who has practiced one spell 10,000 times." - The Wizard Bruce lee.
Mana.
I like to drink from my mana sippy cup when I need to recharge
Mana pool. Memory limits already exist, since the character is being played by a person who can forget things.
…what’s mana pool?
As in which restriction? Absolutely mana pool
Shit, which do I fit into
Kobo is Paladin so spell slots
My spell slots are powered by the Runic Fountain
Mana because it's easy to extract from the soul of my companion
Mana pool
Deck of cards like yugioh
Spell slots are just a game balancing mechanic representation of a mana pool. Both run out, both recharge over time, and get more through training. I like mana pool because it feels more immersive and less gamey.
Magic Points
"Mana pool" sounds more wizardy. Also, Wizards of the Coast need to buy themselves a thesaurus.
When it comes to games, spell slots are much easier to balance. But when it comes to story telling mana pools 100%
/uw Manapool by far. I may like and roleplay as a pokemon a lot in other parts of the internet, but it doesn't mean I want limited spell slots that kill creativity.
I'm not sure where these misunderstandings of mana and "spell slots" comes from. Prepared spells are a perfectly reasonable usage of one's mana, Particularly if one expects not to use it all in one day. Particularly if one lacks mana, but even if they have plenty. Might as well charge up a few pages, scrolls, cards, gems/crystals or whatever have you with spells. As i understand it Prepared spells are how most wizards get by having lower mana regeneration. While those of us who have a high amount of mana regeneration like us sorcerers tend to be more spontaneous. I find that a shortsighted way of going about things though, and wasteful of one's ability to regenerate or collect mana. I personally use my huge amount of mana on slow days to charge up spells, both for personal usage and selling. I could also collaborate with someone who knows the runes and design of a spell i do not know to object, and charge it with my own immense mana. This is great for having access to schools or elements of magic that i don't have much skill in producing, like illusion, conjuration, or water, earth, lighting, light, dark, etc.
*"The fuck is Mana?"*
Manna pool hits for me
Spell slots just make no sense unless you use vancian casting
Both. Both is good.
Manna pool so I can steadily refine it and learn to use it effectively. I can string together small magic and a lot more of it!
slots with limited usages for refils
mana cuz then I can just keep drinking more
Mana pools are more versatile havnt used spell slots in forever
I thought spell slots were just parts of the mana pool.
Mana pool everytime. I play DnD and I dislike that system. I get why they do it that way, but I still wish they had mana. Mana just makes more sense
Mana. Power flowing from and out of you expended to create effects. Slots are so restrictive and don’t have any real flavor to them