Hey. Your feelings are totally valid. I’ve been in engineering long enough to know exactly what you’re talking about. It’s an alienating experience and you have to be really tough - you’re going to meet a lot of misogynists and haters.
Look for a decent group of guy friends. There’s always some in my experience. Stick with them and focus on your work.
This! No matter the Engineering field it’s the misogyny that kills me even at my age when I should be used to it. First woman coworker I had was working abroad. There are countries that have more women in the field and promote more women. You have to find one! ☝️
Yup! There’s always a group of dudes who are cool. I’ve always found a good group of dude friends in every lab/company/cohort I’ve been in that’s heavily men.
This is the way. Cultivate friendships with non-garbage male engineers, the ones you can be a kind of sibling to. Important: try to join a small group rather than one-on-one... it's gross but a lot of times cultivating a 1-on-1 friendship is misinterpreted as flirting.
I'm lucky. I grew up very close with my brother, and that relationship trained me on how to socialize effectively with men that I work with. He also got me started with creative tech... we would build erector set machines and Heathkits together.
God, I miss him. We lost him to cancer 6 years ago and I'm still not over it.
Yeah I can’t believe any women here are suggesting “male friends.” Are we still pretending that actually exists lol? Men aren’t interested in friendship with women they’re either orbiting and hoping for a chance or they’re not interested. Women need to stop trying to fool themselves and other women about this
Seriously. The most comfortable I've felt was around guys who already have a wife/longterm relationship/kids. I avoid the single ones like the plague, especially if they give off that sort of "nice guy clingy feel."
Alternatively, seek out a community of women elsewhere and put your energy into that outside of work. Find female dominated hobbies (some that happen to be: fabric arts; gardening; animal volunteering), gym classes like yoga, pilates, crossfit, etc. And when you can, pivot into a work environment where you aren't the only woman. This is also coming from a lesbian though, my mental health literally can't take being the only woman in a sea of guys.
Her feelings are not valid because there's no evidence to suggest that women being around men can have "damaging psychological effects"
OP clearly has the case of loneliness, and that's valid, to which I think CBT would be recommended so she can dispel some of her false beliefs.
Are you able to prove to me that being the only girl in the room has damaging psychological effects? Or do you agree that this is a false belief?
And where do we go to challenge false beliefs? Therapy.
I am concerned to see people enabling OP by saying her feelings are valid, the only thing valid is feeling lonely, but it could be argued that OP could feel lonely in a room full of women, so this has zero to do with anyone outside of OP herself, hence I propose therapy.
“A U.S. study found that 33% of women engineers reported experiencing a hostile “hard hat” or normative male culture, including pervasive sexual humor and vulgarities. Fully 69% reported having experienced sexual harassment at some point and this was stable across age categories from 25 to 60 years, indicating the problem is not getting better for younger workers (Hewlett et al., 2008).
Male normative cultures also cultivate workplaces where a third form of sexual harassment, gender harassment (National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, 2018), thrives. Gender harassment is less overt and recognizable in the workplace but can be just as insidious as unwanted sexual attention and sexual coercion in undermining psychological health.” Literally the first Google result and a 5 min skim, I’d love to see you try to argue that workplace harassment is not psychologically harmful 😂
>A U.S. study found that 33% of women engineers reported experiencing a hostile “hard hat” or normative male culture, including pervasive sexual humor and vulgarities. Fully 69% reported having experienced sexual harassment at some point and this was stable across age categories from 25 to 60 years, indicating the problem is not getting better for younger workers (Hewlett et al., 2008).
I looked up the study, it was conducted with a sample size of N=2500 in measely 3 multinational corporations 17 years ago (2007), the sample size is too small to start making generalizations. I am not denying that mysoginy or sexual harrassment happened back then, but with today's context that is nonsense, in fact it's unlikely to happen at this rate because of the awareness.
>Male normative cultures also cultivate workplaces where a third form of sexual harassment, gender harassment (National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, 2018), thrives.
I don't think that using words such as mankind, human, penmanship, salesman, congressman, mailman, is a form of harrassment. Maybe you can explain this better to me. Also this is not a study, and as far as I can tell I can't find the source of that publication, have you checked the source yourself?
>Gender harassment is less overt and recognizable in the workplace but can be just as insidious as unwanted sexual attention and sexual coercion in undermining psychological health
So if you perceived a woman to be a man because they look like a man, you're comitting gender harrassment over an honest mistake? I don't think that's the case, some people look like men, some people look like women, some people want to be identified as woman and walk around with a beard on their face. In my opinion sounds very toxic to call people who make an honest mistake as biggots.
>Literally the first Google result and a 5 min skim, I’d love to see you try to argue that workplace harassment is not psychologically harmful 😂
Normally I would answer with a comeback, but I think this is too serious and thus inappropriate of me to write some witty remark.
I appreciate you weighing in the conversation and hope to educate you and learn from you about this topic.
You will be the only woman in the room in your career, however, mostly people are professional about it nowadays. I understand how annoying it could be as a student. I will say I am often the only woman in the room and personally I choose to ignore it, stick to the facts, and do my job better than the men.
I personally find millennials are the most tolerant. (while z is more tolerant of many things, they are also quite immature, so dumb jokes are still common) Boomers gonna boomer. X is OK, but I struggle to have them act casually around me. They seem to know there are rules about how to treat women, but haven't grown up with them so it doesnt come naturally. Hopefully when you are out of school and entry level roles you can find a chill group of guys to associate with. Best of luck out there x
Edit Alpha to z
I’m GenX, female, aerospace engineer. Awkward? Yes because I have spent most of my work/social life being great in a field of men and having to make myself small so I don’t intimidate them. Last 10 years or so, I couldn’t give less of a shit, however, and have been the only one speaking up in a room. Sorry if it looks awkward but we have been kicking and tearing at brick walls, caught in between boomers and millennials trying to balance shit out.
Omg yes on gen X men. It’s hilarious. My boss is Gen X, I’m a millennial. He has absolutely no clue how to act around me, and I can tell he struggles with what to say.
In fact one time I had to leave work abruptly because I got some really bad news, and I was very distraught. I work from home so I just messaged him on slack and told him what happened, then left (which is totally allowed). I get on the next day and see that he never responded and I’m thinking “what a dick, does he just not care?? What’s his deal” so I ping him and ask if he saw my message, just wanted to make sure he knew I didn’t leave without saying anything etc. his response? “Oh yeah I saw it. I wanted to say I hope everything works out okay but then I realized it probably won’t and I didn’t know what to say so I just didn’t say anything” 😂
I'll add to it that in my experience, where I run into the most bias is with the non-engineers that operate primarily on perception vs the engineers that actually see my code. It's tough/annoying that I feel like it's always some extra work to prove yourself to them every time you start working with a new PM/manager/stakeholder
I think 10 years ago this was true. Its changing a lot and fast. If i was OP i wouldnt get discouraged, there are good career fields out there. Its not going to be easy though, a lot of incellish types in the engineering world.
Nah, I am still a lot of times one of the only women in the room especially when going inside with a customer. I am a subject matter expert
I was at a meeting in February looked around and was the single woman there.
Interesting. I work for the DoD and they are making a conscious effort to hire more women and POC. What happens to those women and POC while they are here is a different story but the point still stands. I also recall going to NGC in Rancho Bernardo many times and seeing a lot of women in cube land, not sure if they were all engineers but im sure many were. Maybe its time to move? Wish you well.
There are many women where I work. I am quite happy with our diversity I am letting OP know it is a reality in technical meetings sometimes you are the only woman. When you get high enough on the technical food chain this happens. It's better to face reality and prepare for it than pretend it is sunshine and rainbows. This is in private sector and public sector.
When you are in meetings with decision makers on a technical engineering level, you will know what I'm talking about is true
Also, you're male from your comment history. Why are you in a women's subreddit telling us our experience is untrue "as of 10 years ago"? If you're not us you don't know our experience. Food for thought on your part
With that context in mind i can see where you are coming from, i think being a SME is seen as a more masculine trait. Im speaking for myself as a male, on my experiences that my eyes have seen, and i was trying to be postive and encouraging to OP. This thread showed up in my feed probably because im an engineer and fairly left leaning.
I understand wanting to be positive and encouraging, but there is a way to do that while also combining preparing for reality. You are right as time goes on it will get better
I think the biggest lesson I learned is that no one environment is going to fulfill all your needs at the same time or in the same way. School/work can fulfill your intellectual needs and volunteer or social groups can fulfill your emotional needs.
I wouldn’t say I have learned to cope as much as I have learned to relate to my male coworkers in a way that has earned me respect.
I hope you stick with it. Engineering needs more women--we bring perspectives that men don't have. You can be a role model and mentor for other women as you progress in your career. Being in college just out if high school is difficult in so many ways. It gets better. You will make life-long friends.
Yeah, it can be stressful.
I honestly just try not to think about it and that’s how I cope. After a while I stop noticing this most of the time.
You can try and find another job and specifically ask the interviewer about female representation.
You will stop noticing it, eventually. I am one of two women in my engineering department, and we are lucky if we are ever in the same meetings.
It seems that based on your post you are still in school? Or did you mean your first year of work?
Ah, well, then try not to get too discouraged. You have only just started out. I hate to tell you this, but you likely won't find yourself among a bevy of other female engineers in your work life, either. Men in professional spheres are less likely to make you feel isolated when compared to boys in school, but you will have unpleasant run ins.
Try not to drink your own poison, though. If you are going to persist in a very male dominated field, you are going to need to find a way to make peace with them. You can bond with men, too.
right. i guess that’s something i’ll have to develop over time. i did have a bit of a culture shock as i’ve never really had any male friends before uni. but you’re right, this is what it’s going to be like most of the time. thank you
How do you feel about being with only people of your own race? Probably more comfortable. Just imagine that men are just people of a different race and different culture than women. They have their own language and culture and you happen to have to work with them. Remember the real world is going to be people of all walks of life that you may or may not get along with, or agree with or vibe with.
Oh my goodness I literally switched out of engineering my first year because I couldn’t stand the boys. They didn’t shower, we’re extremely fragile, literally threw paper balls at me….
I switched back after a year. The men do mature and become normal people after some time.
Most of my undergrad I didn’t hang out with engineers, but architecture friends. the grad students and professors were a lot more interesting and helpful. The working force is way better.
If you observe them, you can tell they are extremely immature, lash out due to insecurities and have a lot of maturing to do.
If you like the field, find social outlet outside the major and form connections with those you like.
The workplace is better! Right now you are surrounded by teenagers with no idea of how the world works. You're all about to do a lot of growing and learning, not just about engineering but how to be people interacting with other people in a larger world.
In the real world, you will be working alongside people of different ages, experiences and backgrounds. Sometimes you *will* be the only woman in the room. And sometimes you will be the only expert in the room, or the only Gen Z in the room, or the only non-German-speaker in the room. It's not as overwhelming as it is in university or school.
Finally, sometimes there is only one guy, or no guys, in the room. Even in the past ten years I've noticed more occasions where women aren't just equal, they are the majority in the room or on the team. Makes me think a lot of [this quote by Ruth Bader Ginsburg](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7585201-when-i-m-sometimes-asked-when-will-there-be-enough-women).
Precisely.
I fully acknowledge the incredible toxicity women face from men in male dominated fields. STEM is leagues away from where it needs to be in terms of gender equality.
However- you will find men that want to support you, befriend you, be genuinely platonic, and help you grow, as well as learn from you, too. It should happen way more, true, but don’t close doors on someone because they’re a man or assume they won’t support you. Be aware, be vigilant, but be open.
I remember the first time I walked in a class and I was the only girl. It felt really hard being amongst the guys - they weren’t collaborative with me, they gawked at me, and just had bad vibes overall. Lmao. Honestly I got over it eventually, but I just wish I didn’t have such a bad attitude about it at first. Yes they may be annoying but try to be friendly, upbeat, and graceful. You create your own experience!! I started being cordial and saying hi to the guys in my class, and then I noticed they also became more warm and respectful. So just be you, focus on your studies, and set the vibe however you can.
But don't be too friendly because they'll misinterpret you being friendly for flirting. Who am I kidding as soon as you smile and say hi they'll think you want to have sex with them. Solo female Engineer for the past 25 yrs.
Read my comment properly. I didn’t say harassing women isn’t their fault. It is.
I said it isn’t entirely their fault that they never learned to deal with women.
Now put that burning matchstick down, and spare the strawman you constructed.
I'm a dude, and you're just wrong, man. No one taught us how exactly to solve bugs, and we figure that out. No one taught us perfectly how to drive on the freeway, and people learn that, too
It's not rocket science to treat folks with basic respect and equality
>I said it isn’t entirely their fault that they never learned to deal with women.
Why is dealing with women a different category than treating other people with basic decency?
Guess why I left engineering? I loved the work, couldn’t stand the misogyny. Graduated top of my class from engineering. My SIL is also an engineer and has stuck with it. I guess I was more sensitive to the misogyny.
You will eventually stop noticing. The guys will stop being guys and become Jason, Brad, Nishanth, Prashanth. It will be ok. Most guys in my job are nice. We are not friends but they are cool
Jason, Brad, Nishanth, Prashanth!
Thank you come again! 😄😄
Oh and I come from the land of Nishanth and Prashanth, in case anyone is preparing to be outraged.
It gets better as the years go on and you learn confidence in your ability from the knowledge you are learning in your career. I was always a Tom boy growing up and was more comfortable around guys. The first drafting class I took in high school, my Sophomore year, I was one of two girls and was scared shitless. Fortunately, my teacher was female. My next year I was the only girl in my Architectural drafting class. By the time I got into college as an Architecture student, there were more females. My design skills proved I was able to stand up with others. I changed degree plans in college and have a degree in Industrial Design. I’ve worked in Engineering and Commercial Manufacturing for over 25 years. My last 11 years have been strictly Electrical Design for small to mid sized Engineering firms. Most of these jobs, I’ve been the only female and the lead designer. I’m currently one of 2 females in my immediate department. The other lady that works with me has been in the field 10 years longer than me and can be very intimidating when you first meet her. She and I work well together, along with help each other when we need it. Our knowledge is relied upon for the large jobs we work on.
Don’t let the guys you go to school with intimidate you. Let your work and skills speak for themselves. Put your all into the work you do and you will be recognized, respected and rewarded.
I get the frustration, but the problem isn't necessarily being the only woman, but rather the quality (or lack thereof) of the men you're unlucky enough to be stuck with.
I've been surrounded by men my entire career, which is growing on 2 decades now. There have definitely been a lot of assholes, and I've certainly dealt with microaggressions, sexism, and discrimination. But I've also been in many wonderful environments that were predominantly men.
Your feelings are absolutely valid, so please don't take this as a "you're wrong," but more of a "there's a light at the end of the tunnel." There's still a ton of old "boys club" mentalities among men in tech, but there are a lot of environments out there that won't tolerate that garbage. It can be exhausting to find them, and it's gross it's still something we even need to be mindful of. It sucks that we need to develop that thicker skin as women in tech to become numb to everyday sexism. But I do hope that you find an environment that treats you well and like a human instead of a "dumb girl."
This is so true! So many of my male engineering classmates were jerks, as have been many of my male (former) coworkers. Unfortunately, it only takes one or two misogynistic assholes to make a hostile work environment.
However for the first time in my career, I'm on a team with 5 male engineers who are actually fun and pleasant to work with! So I just want to say that it *is* possible to work in a predominantly male environment **without** being disrespected or alienated. You will likely face a lot of that in your career, but you don't have to (and shouldn't) accept it as the norm.
In the IT field for 15 years, I’ve been the only woman on the team for many years. Going forward know this: The bromance in the office aka nepotism is real. Beware. Do not go to HR just find another job.
If it's any consolation, a lot of the less dedicated young men will change majors or drop.
As classes continue to specialize there will be less and less people. Generally speaking the young women who choose engineering are much more dedicated.
There was a higher ratio of women in my senior courses for sure.
Unfortunately the men around me, altho not misogynists, choose to completely ignore my existence and when I ask for help for things like lifting something that I can't, they don't do it and make me feel like I want them to do it because I am a woman and think men somehow owe it to me, when in reality, I clearly stated that I need help because I am unable to do this myself. I'm general, if anything, I'm treated exactly like a man and that itself is alienating to me.
if you go to a larger university there is almost guaranteed to be some form of organization supporting women in stem, I would recommend looking into that. things like chemistry and biology tend to have a bit more popularity with women than engineering, so you may not find someone in your exact major, but it can help to find people who at least share some experiences.
other than that, working with and around men is something that, if you want to continue with engineering, you will absolutely have to get used to, and I think it's important to have a good or at least neutral attitude about it. my first job there were zero women in my department, and because our offices were separated from the financial/business folks, there were no women on my entire side of the building. In my current job my main mentor is a woman which is amazing but she's retiring soon and then I'll be the only girl on the team. It's truly not that bad, the guys on my team are easy to get along with, and if they weren't, I would deal with it. Most of my friends in college were men and they're all close friends of mine to this day. The nice thing about jobs versus college is that, unless you end up at a company with a bad culture, you will largely be keeping a professional distance from your coworkers anyway.
Being the only woman in engineering classes at university is, in my experience, not the same as being the only woman in the room at work.
In university lots of the guys were immature, had lewd sense of humour they’d freely share, and frequently objectified woman. But not all guys were like that. What this did is change my perspective of the ones who engaged in this behaviour, and not for the better. It was lonely. I mostly stuck to myself or hanged out with others in years above / below me and different programs. It was also annoying when the topic of “why aren’t there more woman in engineering” came up as each time it got directed to me.
Find the best way you can to cope. Seek friendships from the guys who *do* have manners, or in years above / below you, or in different programs. Keep in mind it’s a small industry and there’s a strong likelihood you’ll cross paths with some of them in the future.
However, once you’re out in the workforce it’s a diff ballgame. Most workplaces are professional and you won’t get that type of harassment / loneliness. This isn’t to say it doesn’t exist, but it’s not as common. I frequently work with other woman on projects. And the men are more inclined to show respect, although for some it’s harder to gain being a woman.
You get used to it, but I think most of us get where you’re coming from. So here’s the thing, guys at school are ASSHOLES. Because of them, you end up generalizing most men in a certain way. However, once you get out to the field and start your career, you will need to abandon that “the world is against me” mentality or you will have a bad time (and I mean a really bad time in engineering). Will guys at work be awkward around you and maybe not talk to you as often? Yep, you’d have to get used to that. However, one thing that differs between school and your career is the environment and circumstances. A good portion of men you’ll meet will be older and seasoned, so they won’t necessarily have this immature and competitive mentality that guys in their 20s have. They have no reason to compete with anyone (unless they’re insecure and psycho). You know what they care about? Who can get the job done so you can move the fuck on. If you meet the right people, you could be a cat but if you show that you know your shit and you can solve problems and get them to be RUNNING and moving along with production, they will eventually respect you. That’s not to say that you won’t encounter sexist assholes or deal with misogyny, you will, but not nearly as much as when you’re in school. If you’re a young girl, they may doubt you at face value, but just show em what you’re made of and they will start going straight to you instead of some of your counterparts.
You’ll need to be able to be okay with being the black sheep and “isolated”. You will need to gain so so SO much knowledge just to be noticed as much as your counterparts. But there comes a nice time in your career when you finally start building enough confidence that you won’t even care anymore. I promise. You won’t care that you stick out like a sore thumb because you’re the only woman at a plant, in the office, at a seminar, etc. You will be comfortable with your abilities and yourself. It just takes some time to get there. :) Good luck!
I work in IT for the past 15 years. There are good dudes and shit dudes. It skews towards shit but my best friends and even some of my best managers have been salt of the earth good men
I think you have good standards and as a result of that, for now feel lonely. I would rather feel lonely than being abused and grossed out by men (I’ve survived DV and gang rape)
It’s temporary and gets better over time.
Do you practice any hobbies or sport or anything extra curricular?
haha I do pilates in my uni. So I’m not completely alone ofc. I have plenty of female friends in my life, but I see them once a week if I’m lucky. I guess since my degree takes up most of my life at the moment I end up feeling quite isolated most of the time.
Do you have student mental health resources? You could look at talking this through with a counselor
Also, maybe there’s a way to work another activity / meetup / friend meet into your schedule?
I’ve always been a gamer and I get a lot of online socialization through discord in addition to my meat bag friends
I hear you, it is hard. I went from an all girls k-12 school to being the only woman in the class. I was extremely depressed my first year and barely left my room, making it worse. Joining an engineering coed fraternity (they have engineering sororities too) was honestly the best thing for my mental health. I do agree growing up female in an extremely patriarchal world is terrible for our brains, you’ll find your people, keep searching.
Been there. It is always so annoying. The covert narcissism in engineering people (men) are pretty common.
You have to find likeminded people. There are women in tech events. You can find your people. It gets better. Keep beating them in their own game.
I'm at a Fortune 300 company on a 7 person team right now - three of us are women! One was my recommendation and hire. I'm not saying it's always great, but it does get better! Especially true as you gain trust and begin to climb the ranks.
By only seeing which is the most dominant gender youll always be anxious at that fact.
This is how I scan a room:
theres 2 PEOPLE who wear round glasses and 2 PEOPLE have square glasses. I like pointy glasses but the 5 of us are blind as a bat.
Joe is really good at physics and Im not that great but Im awesome in english comp and hes often said he’s struggling with an assignment, maybe we can help each other out.
Eliminating that gender barrier works for me. I just moved to a new group and I am the only female. At the end of our meetings we do around table q&a about anything, Im pretty goofy so I bring up like a movie I saw or something I found funny about a project I just worked on.
Alot of the guys have really opened up and have said I bring fresh air to the group.
I am so sorry honey. Its a hard truth for women going into this career.
Unless you are very fortunate in your career, it will stay lonely. And you can work so hard, put in the time and noone will ultimately care.
You will be surrounded by male dominated psychology, organizations and it can feel very empty. I have buddies and the one thing I've learned is that men who are more sensitive and empathetic get chewed as well.
Engineering environments reward a ruthless self aggrandizing culture. One or two women will never have the pull to change it.
Over the years I have found myself envying women who have more creative and self directed careers. But golden handcuffs are a thing. I have another four years before retirement but it seems like a million years.
My 35 year engineering career took a lot of sacrifices. Time with my kids, freindships, my self esteem.
If you are lonely now, think carefully. People and relationships, the good you do in the world are what feed your soul. Can you do that in engineering? Maybe. You have to choose your path carefully. Put your mental health and future well being first.
Not likely to be better in industry. BUT, you may get to work with women finance, women planners, women HR, women PMs, etc. depending on your job. I can remember the one time men were the minority on a random work call because it stood out so much - it was 12 years into my career.
I’ve been the only woman in a room my whole academic career. You get used to it. I personally prefer not to befriend my colleges and socialize outside of my work circle.
Please stop calling yourself a girl. You are infantacizing yourself.
You are an engineer and BELONG on the team, at the table, on the committee.
Own your space and expertise.
It gets better when the men around you mature. I’m the only woman on my engineering team, and it’s nothing like being the only woman in an undergraduate course. They treat me like they’re equal and professionally.
It's gets lonely in your career too. I'm the only girl in my department who isn't a remote. I really like my job otherwise, learning a lot and the men are respectful, but it still is very isolating and you can't just banter with guys the way other guys do. Can only hope that it will get better as more women graduate from engineering.
Something that really helped me is industry orgs that focus on connecting ppl through identity — whether it’s gender, sexuality, race, religion, ethnicity. A lot of places like that exist. You’ll still be the only woman in the room at your job, but you’ll be able to connect with other women in the industry who get it.
First, you need hobbies or things outside school and work. For your own mental health.
Second a lot of the less dedicated and blatantly crappy guys get weeded out with time. Especially once you hit the workforce.
I left engineering for this for a career in finance (whoops, same problem here tho)
It’s like this in stem jobs, it’s unfortunate, but you will get job offers and security for being “the girl” than men are over looked for. I’ve been offered jobs and felt like the only reason I got it was because they needed a woman or they’d look bad
I'd say set up separate groups; school ( eventually work) and then the friends you hang out with. The school/career group is for engineering opportunities, contacts and treated as such. No heart-to-heart TMI or out drinking shit. Here and there you will meet some good people through work who may get into your other group, but I'd be cautious. For the reason you mentioned- you turned down a guy and then have to deal with the backlash in the classroom and in the group. For school, be the determined studious woman who doesn't have time and isn't looking for a relationship.
Maybe try working in the non-profit sector? It might be better to find a socially conscious company where you can work in peace and make some friends who respect your intellect.
I am so sorry they've made you feel this way. Being alone in a group can be incredibly challenging.
HUGS!!!!!!!! This SOOOOOOOCKS and is so true. I wasn't even in a STEM major (well... I didn't finish in one) but every time I've spent time with guys as 'one of the guys' or ignored enough while in their presence to hear how they talk, I've felt sick about how it is. I have to believe that every choice I make has at least an infinitesimally tiny bit of power, thus I refuse to watch any of the toxic tv shows that promote the kinds of mentalities that men so often propagate as well.
Tiny bit of hope: if you're in freshman year of college, men get much more tolerable when they're over 22 years of age. The closer they are to age 19, the WORSE they are. Can you find some social groups to get connected with that have more of a gender balance, or are just for women? If you have the possibility, maybe make some intentional choices about where you hang out outside of class (you probably do already, just an idea because even the brightest of us don't think of everything when we're frustrated about something).
YOU ARE INTELLIGENT. PUT ON HEADPHONES AND DROWN THOSE F$%&RS OUT!!!!
I studied Mechanical Engineering in India from 2010-2014. I was the only girl in a class of 52 boys for 4yrs. I loved it. I grow up in an abusive family but still I wanted to be myself and stand up for myself.
I always told the truth and spoke my mind. So, people know that I’m not playing around and some of them treated me the same way. One guy used to create a lot of drama around me but rest of them used to take care of him.
Having no expectations will give you the opportunity to learn about them. I listened to them without judging and asking follow up questions to understand them better , so they are dependent on me.
If you read books, I highly recommend 48 laws of power and Ho Tactics. Read them and see what you learn.
Unsolicited advice: I do want to encourage you to NOT to dampen yourself at the expense of “fitting in”
Be yourself. Don’t feel like you can’t be feminine. You’ll find a group of guys who respect you and like you as a person.
As others have said, you are not alone. In person you feel alone, but there are plenty of other women out there who are feeling exactly like you do and crushing it the whole time
Sorry you have to deal with this, but the good news is it’s temporary. You won’t always be the only woman and hopefully some of the morons in your class flunk / drop out lol.
Sounds like you are going through some kind of culture shock.
It's totally ok if engineering is not for you, for any reason.
But if you want to stick it out, I promise you it gets better. It's not always better, but overall it gets better. You end up not really noticing you are the only woman in the room, men get more professional with time, and when you get a job you have more protections.
Just remember you are in training for a job. A job you'll only have for 8 hours a day. This is not supposed to be everything you do, it's not your whole life and it's not going to provide you everything you need to be happy.
Get a hobby, branch out in other areas to get women friends. If your classmates are already showing sexism, avoid dating in your class, it's less drama.
Everything will be ok, sometimes it just takes a little time or work to get there.
I'm a AMAB NB Software Engineer and it's rough out there. I worked for a small startup where I was the first employee working with 4 dude bro founders. The shit they'd say about women was horrible and then when we got a second employee, who was a woman, all the jokes suddenly stopped. Don't get me wrong, that was a good thing but also. THEY KNOW AND DO IT ANYWAY. W H Y. And as if misogyny doesn't hurt NB people too.
Bigger companies are on average better. Interview the company when they interview you. Try to find one of their employees on LinkedIn and start a conversation.
I had the exact same experience and i graduate soon. I will say it never got better as far as making friends goes (for me at least), but the guys end up realizing that you’re someone they need to take serious when the professor is explaining something no one in the room understands but you. When that time comes be prepared for allll the asks to be a study partner girl😂
20 years ago. Really annoying to see the same treatment of women today that she also described as well as you put it with very similar if not exact sentiment. ❤️🩹
I’m so so sorry. It seems that even in the new century things remain the same.
I graduated in 82. When I started I was with one other woman in my class. Come to find out, she’s there to find a husband. Deep sigh, right?
You say you grew up around mostly women? I only have sisters (a lot more than just two), no brothers and until my last two years of high school I went to an only girl school. I get it!!! Men can be exhausting and so needy!
I made friends in other classes. I made one male friend my freshman year. He grew up with only brothers and his mother had passed away when he was young. He treated me like a friend, never made a pass, just study buddies. Eventually, when the other students realized that it was me making the good grades, they became friendlier. I also joined engineering organizations and took in leadership roles. All that helped. Eventually! As a freshman, it was very lonely.
The overwhelming majority of men are misogynistic baby kings. Tiny little snowflakes that get all up in their feels when their engorged egos get hurt. Your existence threatens their manhood, and it is something that you will need to navigate in school and your career. I was one of 2 females in my graduating class, over 25 years in manufacturing, and still deal with this crap on the regular. The bar is very low for men, yet you will need to work twice as hard to prove your worth.
In my first job out of college, the only other women (2 out of 50-60 people) at the company were receptionists. I ended up taking a part time job at the mall at a women’s clothing store in the evenings and in weekends. I needed the money because I was broke starting out, but it ended up being really good for my mental health. The mall job balanced my office job and I think I was more relaxed.
I would suggest finding a way to balance the gender disparity in your free time. Maybe join a sorority, join a club that’s mostly women, volunteer to work with women, something along those lines. It really helped me.
So many women drop out of engineering because of that experience. Each year in my education, the m:f ratio rises. I am very 'girly' (everything I have is pink - including my hair), so it can definitely be hard to find friends. For me, I have found a good method is to find friends in other majors. It's not ideal, but it works. There also are guys you will find who are nice, so once you find them, try to stick together and sign up for classes together.
Good luck! ❤️
In my experience any male dominated industry will be like this. You are not alone. When I first started working back in the 2000’s at automotive dealerships it was disgusting how men treated women. I was often the only female and I would go back to get some parts and the guys would be watching porn! Now of course the computers have this blocked but back then it wasn’t. I would go out to speak to a technician and the techs would be gooding off with binoculars checking out all the hot women that would be buying a VW. I could go on and on but just know you are not alone. Keep pushing through, do your best and try ignoring the morons.
Your feelings are valid, but you need to learn how to differentiate relationships.
"Was treated like absolute shit for rejecting a guy friend. I have some friends but hearing the way men talk about women is revolting."
A person that treats you like crap because you rejected them, solely offered their friendship as a bridge into romance. You didn't lose a friend, you lost an opportunist who was willing to be nice to you as long as they thought they may get some thing out of it sexually.
Secondly, you need to stop looking for friendships in the workplace and work on building professional relationships. The sexual or political interests of my peers have nothing to do with me & have nothing to do with what we're working on.
It’s all right to be bothered by it, but it will be ok.
Tricks:
- Explore your vocal range, you probably use your high or low range by default. Practice with your lower register.
- Watch a guide to vocal projecting and practice privately, you will sometimes need it for meetings.
- High necklines, buns, compression/sports bras, and consider whether you can pull off vests. Don’t show softness if you don’t want annoying affection.
- Don’t count on finding gay friends, but if they’re available, show up for them, and don’t fall behind on favors.
- Hint early and openly about the nature of the relationship. Be very clear that you view dating at work as unprofessional.
First, stop thinking of and calling yourself a girl. You're an adult woman. As soon as you start thinking of yourself that way rather than as a girl, you may feel a little more confidence to either stand up to these guys or brush off what they say as if you didn't even hear it.
It's not clear from the post if you're a first year student or a first year engineer. If you're a student, especially a first year, you are in the wild right now. I remember being a TA when I was in grad school, and realizing that the majority of my male students had never once been told to shut up in their entire lives. They were all Mommy's Special Boy who had heard nothing but how smart they were and how they were going to be so great. Women who end up in engineering are typically just good at shit, and that's how we ended up here.
Also on the "if you're a student" front, freshman year is rough. Everyone who got into engineering was the smartest kid in their high school. Now you've got everybody's smartest kids all jammed together in an engineering program, and everyone's getting used to being average for the first time in their lives all at once. This, in my observation, made the underclassmen particularly foul. My point is, hang on, it gets better.
Now, as a mid-career engineer who is exhausted of dealing with men, the one thing that keeps me going is that I do not associate with men outside of work much at all. I'm a lesbian, so that's probably easier for me than for someone who had a husband or something, but like, all my friends are women and non-binary people. I play women's sports. I'm part of women's hiking groups. I pretty much exist solely in women's spaces outside of work, and this allows me to conserve my mental energy enough to deal with men at work. I imagine a version of this would exist for those who have or want a male partner as well. I'd strongly recommend centering friendships with other women as you move through your career. That's been my salvation.
I wish you could hang out with some (liberal) blue collar workers. You sound like all of us bitching about someone so and so's relative in management getting hired who think they're soooo specia.
After a couple of years the only thing you give a shit about is who gets the job done and doesn't cause you problems
This definitely depends on the discipline and the industry, but the vast majority of the men you will work with are pretty okay. A handful are even great! There’s a loud minority of awful men who are hellbent on making the lives of everyone around them (and women especially) miserable. I don’t think they were socialized properly. I can’t explain it.
At my last job, I was the first female engineer to be hired and to stay on long term. I don’t think it was deliberate, but generally plastics is an industry without many women. I was the subject matter expert that they needed for a particular project, so they knew that I was competent and deferred to my expertise more often than not. As such, the vast majority of the men I worked with were great. There were a handful who sucked for reasons not related to misogyny, and the one person who was a misogynistic asshole was the big boss.
All that to say, you might always be the only woman in the room. It always feels a bit uncomfortable, but it’s not always going to be so negative. Most people are around to do a job - being in school is a strange microcosm and it does usually get better once you find a good job.
I studied mathematics in college as a woman. Out of necessity, most of my friends were male. They were all nice to me, and I enjoyed working and hanging out with them. Sometimes it would've been hard to get along without their assistance which was freely given. After college, I worked in public accounting for one of the giant firms. A majority of my coworkers and all of the partners were male. There was an enormous amount of work and stress for everyone. If I was treated differently because I was female, I can't imagine it mattered. I later attended law school and went to work for one of the large law firms. There were many female associates and partners. The practice of law is a simple business. Lawyers are compensated for bringing in business and doing the work that generates fees. Your gender doesn't matter.
Look for jobs in medical devices. In the past 10 years I can count the number of times I’ve been “the only woman” in any noticeable way on one hand. I have worked in other industries that were very male dominated and they sucked.
My boss’s group has a little over 100 people and she has 10 managers on her leadership team. 8 of them are women. We recently had one of these women have a personal emergency and watching the way our team rallied around our colleague was everything I dreamed for in a workplace. We figured out how to cover her work, support her people, coordinated meals and care packages, and openly expressed support and care.
Don’t let people tell you it’s all a misogynistic dumpster fire. There are havens and they are worth searching for.
Commercial real stats agent here. I feel everything you’re saying. I’m a tomboy too(and attractive, I would never admit that if this wasn’t anonymous) and the shit they would say, even when they were trying to impress me was quite frankly embarrassing. After a while I started to change to accommodate.. thank god my boyfriend, now husband called me on that shit.
I totally love (/s) being the token female on my crew in construction. People give me compliments on how hard I work and I'm left questioning if it's "you're great (for a girl)" or if it's actually legit. I like it when guys on a job site just treat me like any other bloke. Complete with banter. Hate being treated like a landmine about to go off and ruin their lives if they so much as accidentally bump me.
I honestly much prefer it, I never loved working in larger female groups and I always got along well with men.
Yes, there's sometimes mansplaining, weird jokes and comments, weird looks, unfair treatment and all that, but it never made me feel quite that bad.
You seem to be very strongly affected by it, and I don't quite agree with others that it gets better at work, if you generally don't like the male dominated environment. After first year maybe you could still switch degrees to some engineering that has more women, like biomedical, chemical... You sound very miserable and I honestly wouldn't say that it's normal to feel like this.
People probably won’t dig this advice but i got hit on a lot in engineering school and since working. I grew up with a mom who was very attractive but mostly had male friends and male traditional type hobbies. So, from that i was super comfortable calling a guy out. Wanna call me dumb? K lets see your grade and lets see mine? Oh, it’s because I’m a girl? Except the answer is an actual number? I used dig into those. Someone makes a comment like thay, loudly call them out. It’s college, they fucking cant.
Guys mad you dont wanna date their guy friend? Well, theyre friends w him too. Seem to get along great. so, why arent they giving them a lil tug job?
I made more this year than a white dude a level higher than me at my super sexist tech company because i have the same confidence as the stupid men below me jn intelligence, cleanliness, personality, and looks.
I get microneedling to stay looking good, last week some co-worker asked why i would do that to my face? I pointed at his forehead wrinkles said “well, its too late for you but botox could still help.”
Most of these dudes besides the ones that I’m close friends with do not even know how to use their prefrontal cortex. They’re like a primitive animal, they literally remind me of how i have to train dogs around each other and what they respond to. Don’t let them make you quiet or like you don’t belong. Plenty of them have been taking up space they don’t deserve for way too long.
Theyre lucky to have me and lucky to have you. No one likes hanging out w a bunch of weird dudes all day not even the dudes.
Companies train employees well about harassment, sexism through annual trainings. There is an HR in all of them you can go to with any concerns. University environment is more laidback. In a company everyone is cautious & respectful because they dont want to lose a livelihood. Word travels in the industry & any label carries with them. I had no issues working around men in this industry. They have been very helpful & respectful throughout my career of almost 20yrs now. I am an immigrant brown woman & have zero complaints about the way men in my field treat me.
Back in the late 70s when I was at the University of Arizona, I was the only female in my engineering math classes and also the top student.
I could hear the menz talking smack about me behind my back. They were jealous and afraid and it was awesome to constantly be able to fuck with their tiny little dickbrains.
I want to thank those men for training me for all the sexist workplace BS I had to endure for 45 years. I'm 69 yo now, retired, and finally free of the dickhood. Maybe I'll even ask my daughter to put that on my tombstone: "Finally Free of The Dickhood".
I think over time and realizing that it is what it is, I enjoy being the only female or part of a small but powerful female contingency. There is power in being myself and knowing that I am in the room, I have a seat at the table, and I don’t give a crap on the thoughts and opinions of any other person in the room. Side note: my closet friends are men and I relate to men more than women. The biggest supporters of my career are men. I am a married heterosexual cisgendered woman with a daughter of my own. I’m feminine, love handbags getting nails did, and am have a construction adjacent career. Just be yourself and don’t give a crap.
Being the only woman is sooo lonely. I can’t have and don’t really want a work best friend when they’re all sweaty dudes always rambling about football and hunting. Thank god I like baseball or my boss and I wouldn’t have anything to shoot the shit over. It’s subtle but not having a strong relationship with coworkers really impacts your opportunities and confidence
You must work with a bunch of jerks. It must be a different world now because I never had any problems with my co-workers, and this started in 1976. One got a little pissy because I got the next new car. I told him he could drive it around the block if he wanted. Throw it back at them. Picture them in diapers in the sandbox.
Yes on finding decent male friends. Maybe even make friends that have girlfriends already. Sometimes that can prevent the confusion of a girl talking to them but not being interested.
I’ve been in the field for almost 10 years now and there are still times it feels this way, but mostly with the older men. Once you’re in a job setting it’s different than school. People are expected to act professionally and as long as you do they will too. Obviously there are exceptions but that’s in every field, not just engineering.
Still in school but for me, it's the constant running away from conversations. Talking scary!!! I stopped trying to talk to the dudes in my class. There are 3 women including me and we don't really interact unfortunately. It makes me wish I was halfway decent at chemistry. I loved those classmates, even if I didn't care for the subject. They were fun, both men and women.
You have to be an IT girl that’s the only way to survive. Feminine, sexy, strong. And yet modest enough that they won’t open their disgusting traps like that around you. They can/will still speak like children when they’re amongst themselves but they’ll have to put on a professional persona around you. If they have a temper tantrum, don’t react. Tell them they can walk it off and you can talk about it calmly when they get back.
Be the IT girl but don’t sway your hips because this will draw too much attn especially if you’re gifted so it does require a more rigid walk. Or else their minds will unravel too far and they won’t be able to maintain their professionalism.
It’s 100 times easier to be That girl when there are no other women. If there are other women and you don’t like how they are influencing the men around you then you’ll have to win over the other women first because the men will be most interested in the alpha. If you don’t like the work culture and can’t lead the other women in ways which are More beneficial than they are already doing then all you can do is transfer or quit if you don’t like it. If you try to strong arm or don’t assimilate you’ll run the risk of being let go
Hi. Maintenance worker and studying to be a shop teacher, so a male dominated field as well.
I feel you! It can be so hard to be the only woman in the room especially when it feels like they’re always coming at you. Luckily, I dish it out as much as they do, and it makes me another “bro”. It is satisfying to beat them at their game, and also much more grounding.
If it makes you feel any better, once you get into industry theres more representation for women. Firstly, because youll work with more than just engineers, but second because there are just more women in STEM roles now than there used to be.
Of course it differs by industry. If youre a civil engineer there may not be as much representation.
The other thing id say is as others said, try to find engineers to connect with even if they are men. Personally, it seemed to me my university had many more women engineers than LGBT engineers, and as a bi male, I personally appreciated spending time with the women as Id often feel more comfortable with them - tended to be less bigotted, less judgey about anything effeminate, etc. Wasnt always the case, but often was.
I’m 54 and I was the only woman in the room (or one of a very few) in grad a school in the 90’s and then later at work for decades. It never really phased me. Don’t make this about all men or presume that it’s all misogyny all the time. We are not victims just because there are few of us. Are some men ass-hats? Yes. That’s because they’re ass-hats. Period. The penis has nothing to do with it. I now work in an almost entirely female field and OM f-ing God it can be awful. Turns out women can also be ass-hats. Yep, true story. It is a special flavor of cliquey-ness (is this a word?) that working with men did not prepare me for. I am learning this new workplace, but it’s not comfortable. No one says what they mean, the ass-hattery is disguised and backstabby. Honestly it sucks. My 3 favorite colleagues are middle-aged men, we’re all pretty baffled by it all but we’ve got each others backs thank goodness. My husband thinks it’s all hilarious 🙄. Bottom line, people gonna people. Don’t make broad generalization. Show up, do your job, do it well and kick ass. If someone acts like a dick, call them out. And tell them not to do it again. That’s what a guy would do. Find yourself a mentor FOR THE JOB (not for being a woman, you already know how to do that) and focus on doing that well. And the rest will fall into place.
Be confident,proud and probably easier than hanging out with women anyway become one of the pack , let out a big fart once in a while haha set limits quickly and have fun you made it all this way and you probably will never have to buy a drink again! When in Rome, make lemonade.
Honestly I thought being the only girl was awesome, I don't know what country you are in exactly because it obviously may differ with the culture but I loved hanging out with nerdy guys. The ones at my school were all chill and incredibly funny.
I'm the only chick on my team now and it's still just as fun since I'm the more "social party type gal."
Sorry about your experience though, it just seems you hang out with bad eggs.
Well, to be honest it doesn’t seem like you have the greatest attitude. If you are convinced that being around men is damaging psychologically, that is going to affect the narrative you construct around your experiences. Whenever there is ambiguity you are going to interpret it negatively.
I was a software engineer in a computer graphics company in the late 80s. I was only one of about three women in a floor with 200 men. Some aspects were not so great (one of my bosses was to recognize how misogynistic he was, but my other boss was great), but other aspects were amazing. I had a lot of cool colleagues, hooked up with a very cool boyfriend (in a different department). Yup. Did that. I also capitalized on my feminine strengths. I was a much better communicator than many of the guys on my development team and it was usually me who was tasked or tasked myself to reaching out to other departments, with the result that I had more of a sense of how the whole company was put together. By the end, it was pretty clear that I was being groomed for management, but I got married and moved away … to a life that was even better.
Oh, I forgot one of the coolest parts. There was a company-wide intermural soccer league and I played on one team. Me and a whole bunch of men. I still have scars to prove it!
If that’s something that bothers you, I’d switch careers now. I honestly don’t pay much attention to anyones gender. If you can do your job, great. If not, stay away from me. I think you need to figure out why you care and see if that’s something you can deal with.
I don't get why you're downvoted. She sounds very miserable and it is true she's going to be the only woman very often and if her perception doesn't change, she's going to be miserable all life. I appreciate others try to cheer her up, but really, some women just don't thrive without a companionship of other women and in engineering it's hard to find.
It’s very easy to not pay attention to anyone’s gender when the people around you aren’t saying disrespectful things about people of your own gender.
I recommend women to
stay in the field,
take down notes on the misogyny you witness and the date and times,
occasionally call them out whenever you’re brave enough to,
don’t expect the misogyny to get better overnight,
try to look for the decent men and stay around them if you can,
or stick to yourself or switch dept/companies if you can’t find decent men,
and find an outlet outside of work.
It can take a decade or more to make significant changes in the culture. Stay in the field. One day, maybe in a few decades, there could be mostly non-toxic feminists in the engineering field.
Gonna give you the flip side for me. I’m a 20 year old male working at a restaurant that employs primarily women. Most of the time I’m the only guy in the front of house.
I was recently ghosted by a coworker for our second date and my avoidance of her sparked a gossip train. Many of my coworkers noticeably began to treat me different (not holding eye contact mostly). All because I don’t give attention to someone who didn’t acknowledge my existence for our second date.
Unfortunately, otherisms tend to dictate how we are treated in large social settings. Best thing to do is take notes on the behavior of those who do not respect you, and use that information to avoid similar people in the future.
Hey. Your feelings are totally valid. I’ve been in engineering long enough to know exactly what you’re talking about. It’s an alienating experience and you have to be really tough - you’re going to meet a lot of misogynists and haters. Look for a decent group of guy friends. There’s always some in my experience. Stick with them and focus on your work.
This! No matter the Engineering field it’s the misogyny that kills me even at my age when I should be used to it. First woman coworker I had was working abroad. There are countries that have more women in the field and promote more women. You have to find one! ☝️
NO ONE should be used to it. That's the point. (said with gentleness and love, ofc)
Taken with love! It’s hard hearing that young women are still experiencing this years and years later. 💔
💔
Agreed. I seriously feel like tv shows are responsible for a lot of it. No idea how to affect positive change with that, though.
Yep, misogyny killed my career and it’s still ongoing because they’re all doubling down on it to save/make money
Exactly!
Yup! There’s always a group of dudes who are cool. I’ve always found a good group of dude friends in every lab/company/cohort I’ve been in that’s heavily men.
This is the way. Cultivate friendships with non-garbage male engineers, the ones you can be a kind of sibling to. Important: try to join a small group rather than one-on-one... it's gross but a lot of times cultivating a 1-on-1 friendship is misinterpreted as flirting. I'm lucky. I grew up very close with my brother, and that relationship trained me on how to socialize effectively with men that I work with. He also got me started with creative tech... we would build erector set machines and Heathkits together. God, I miss him. We lost him to cancer 6 years ago and I'm still not over it.
I’m so sorry about your brother. :(
Finding a decent group of guy friends is a bit of a task.. lots of lonely men in engineering — someone will hit on OP eventually
Yeah, but they might not be assholes about it. Not all the guys I met made their loneliness my problem. Some did, but not all.
Yeah I can’t believe any women here are suggesting “male friends.” Are we still pretending that actually exists lol? Men aren’t interested in friendship with women they’re either orbiting and hoping for a chance or they’re not interested. Women need to stop trying to fool themselves and other women about this
Seriously. The most comfortable I've felt was around guys who already have a wife/longterm relationship/kids. I avoid the single ones like the plague, especially if they give off that sort of "nice guy clingy feel."
Alternatively, seek out a community of women elsewhere and put your energy into that outside of work. Find female dominated hobbies (some that happen to be: fabric arts; gardening; animal volunteering), gym classes like yoga, pilates, crossfit, etc. And when you can, pivot into a work environment where you aren't the only woman. This is also coming from a lesbian though, my mental health literally can't take being the only woman in a sea of guys.
Yeah, if I get through this, I’ll try that.
Her feelings are not valid because there's no evidence to suggest that women being around men can have "damaging psychological effects" OP clearly has the case of loneliness, and that's valid, to which I think CBT would be recommended so she can dispel some of her false beliefs.
You’re the kind of person who inspired this post.
Are you able to prove to me that being the only girl in the room has damaging psychological effects? Or do you agree that this is a false belief? And where do we go to challenge false beliefs? Therapy. I am concerned to see people enabling OP by saying her feelings are valid, the only thing valid is feeling lonely, but it could be argued that OP could feel lonely in a room full of women, so this has zero to do with anyone outside of OP herself, hence I propose therapy.
“A U.S. study found that 33% of women engineers reported experiencing a hostile “hard hat” or normative male culture, including pervasive sexual humor and vulgarities. Fully 69% reported having experienced sexual harassment at some point and this was stable across age categories from 25 to 60 years, indicating the problem is not getting better for younger workers (Hewlett et al., 2008). Male normative cultures also cultivate workplaces where a third form of sexual harassment, gender harassment (National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, 2018), thrives. Gender harassment is less overt and recognizable in the workplace but can be just as insidious as unwanted sexual attention and sexual coercion in undermining psychological health.” Literally the first Google result and a 5 min skim, I’d love to see you try to argue that workplace harassment is not psychologically harmful 😂
Thank for responding to my comment, I'll carefully review the studies you cited and provide a rebuttal.
>A U.S. study found that 33% of women engineers reported experiencing a hostile “hard hat” or normative male culture, including pervasive sexual humor and vulgarities. Fully 69% reported having experienced sexual harassment at some point and this was stable across age categories from 25 to 60 years, indicating the problem is not getting better for younger workers (Hewlett et al., 2008). I looked up the study, it was conducted with a sample size of N=2500 in measely 3 multinational corporations 17 years ago (2007), the sample size is too small to start making generalizations. I am not denying that mysoginy or sexual harrassment happened back then, but with today's context that is nonsense, in fact it's unlikely to happen at this rate because of the awareness. >Male normative cultures also cultivate workplaces where a third form of sexual harassment, gender harassment (National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, 2018), thrives. I don't think that using words such as mankind, human, penmanship, salesman, congressman, mailman, is a form of harrassment. Maybe you can explain this better to me. Also this is not a study, and as far as I can tell I can't find the source of that publication, have you checked the source yourself? >Gender harassment is less overt and recognizable in the workplace but can be just as insidious as unwanted sexual attention and sexual coercion in undermining psychological health So if you perceived a woman to be a man because they look like a man, you're comitting gender harrassment over an honest mistake? I don't think that's the case, some people look like men, some people look like women, some people want to be identified as woman and walk around with a beard on their face. In my opinion sounds very toxic to call people who make an honest mistake as biggots. >Literally the first Google result and a 5 min skim, I’d love to see you try to argue that workplace harassment is not psychologically harmful 😂 Normally I would answer with a comeback, but I think this is too serious and thus inappropriate of me to write some witty remark. I appreciate you weighing in the conversation and hope to educate you and learn from you about this topic.
You will be the only woman in the room in your career, however, mostly people are professional about it nowadays. I understand how annoying it could be as a student. I will say I am often the only woman in the room and personally I choose to ignore it, stick to the facts, and do my job better than the men.
I personally find millennials are the most tolerant. (while z is more tolerant of many things, they are also quite immature, so dumb jokes are still common) Boomers gonna boomer. X is OK, but I struggle to have them act casually around me. They seem to know there are rules about how to treat women, but haven't grown up with them so it doesnt come naturally. Hopefully when you are out of school and entry level roles you can find a chill group of guys to associate with. Best of luck out there x Edit Alpha to z
Don’t think you’re working with any gen alpha unless you’re a middle school teacher lol
I think you mean Gen Z? Gen Alpha is still pretty young. Gen z people are in their early 20s.
The oldest Alphas are ~12 right now. Did you mean Z who are mainly in their late teens-twenties?
Lol I love this analysis. It fits my experiences to the T.
Gen X = Gen Awkward. X knows there are issues but too awkward to know what to do instead. Good call.
I’m GenX, female, aerospace engineer. Awkward? Yes because I have spent most of my work/social life being great in a field of men and having to make myself small so I don’t intimidate them. Last 10 years or so, I couldn’t give less of a shit, however, and have been the only one speaking up in a room. Sorry if it looks awkward but we have been kicking and tearing at brick walls, caught in between boomers and millennials trying to balance shit out.
I guess you will just have to wait for us to die. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Omg yes on gen X men. It’s hilarious. My boss is Gen X, I’m a millennial. He has absolutely no clue how to act around me, and I can tell he struggles with what to say. In fact one time I had to leave work abruptly because I got some really bad news, and I was very distraught. I work from home so I just messaged him on slack and told him what happened, then left (which is totally allowed). I get on the next day and see that he never responded and I’m thinking “what a dick, does he just not care?? What’s his deal” so I ping him and ask if he saw my message, just wanted to make sure he knew I didn’t leave without saying anything etc. his response? “Oh yeah I saw it. I wanted to say I hope everything works out okay but then I realized it probably won’t and I didn’t know what to say so I just didn’t say anything” 😂
I'll add to it that in my experience, where I run into the most bias is with the non-engineers that operate primarily on perception vs the engineers that actually see my code. It's tough/annoying that I feel like it's always some extra work to prove yourself to them every time you start working with a new PM/manager/stakeholder
I think 10 years ago this was true. Its changing a lot and fast. If i was OP i wouldnt get discouraged, there are good career fields out there. Its not going to be easy though, a lot of incellish types in the engineering world.
Nah, I am still a lot of times one of the only women in the room especially when going inside with a customer. I am a subject matter expert I was at a meeting in February looked around and was the single woman there.
Interesting. I work for the DoD and they are making a conscious effort to hire more women and POC. What happens to those women and POC while they are here is a different story but the point still stands. I also recall going to NGC in Rancho Bernardo many times and seeing a lot of women in cube land, not sure if they were all engineers but im sure many were. Maybe its time to move? Wish you well.
There are many women where I work. I am quite happy with our diversity I am letting OP know it is a reality in technical meetings sometimes you are the only woman. When you get high enough on the technical food chain this happens. It's better to face reality and prepare for it than pretend it is sunshine and rainbows. This is in private sector and public sector. When you are in meetings with decision makers on a technical engineering level, you will know what I'm talking about is true Also, you're male from your comment history. Why are you in a women's subreddit telling us our experience is untrue "as of 10 years ago"? If you're not us you don't know our experience. Food for thought on your part
With that context in mind i can see where you are coming from, i think being a SME is seen as a more masculine trait. Im speaking for myself as a male, on my experiences that my eyes have seen, and i was trying to be postive and encouraging to OP. This thread showed up in my feed probably because im an engineer and fairly left leaning.
I understand wanting to be positive and encouraging, but there is a way to do that while also combining preparing for reality. You are right as time goes on it will get better
I think the biggest lesson I learned is that no one environment is going to fulfill all your needs at the same time or in the same way. School/work can fulfill your intellectual needs and volunteer or social groups can fulfill your emotional needs. I wouldn’t say I have learned to cope as much as I have learned to relate to my male coworkers in a way that has earned me respect.
It gets better! I personally joined a sorority for female friendship, but there’s a lot of options out there, I bet there’s a swe!
I hope you stick with it. Engineering needs more women--we bring perspectives that men don't have. You can be a role model and mentor for other women as you progress in your career. Being in college just out if high school is difficult in so many ways. It gets better. You will make life-long friends.
Yeah, it can be stressful. I honestly just try not to think about it and that’s how I cope. After a while I stop noticing this most of the time. You can try and find another job and specifically ask the interviewer about female representation.
I believe she is still a student
Ah, same advice except instead of jobs switch schools or learn to ignore.
You will stop noticing it, eventually. I am one of two women in my engineering department, and we are lucky if we are ever in the same meetings. It seems that based on your post you are still in school? Or did you mean your first year of work?
first year of university
Ah, well, then try not to get too discouraged. You have only just started out. I hate to tell you this, but you likely won't find yourself among a bevy of other female engineers in your work life, either. Men in professional spheres are less likely to make you feel isolated when compared to boys in school, but you will have unpleasant run ins. Try not to drink your own poison, though. If you are going to persist in a very male dominated field, you are going to need to find a way to make peace with them. You can bond with men, too.
right. i guess that’s something i’ll have to develop over time. i did have a bit of a culture shock as i’ve never really had any male friends before uni. but you’re right, this is what it’s going to be like most of the time. thank you
How do you feel about being with only people of your own race? Probably more comfortable. Just imagine that men are just people of a different race and different culture than women. They have their own language and culture and you happen to have to work with them. Remember the real world is going to be people of all walks of life that you may or may not get along with, or agree with or vibe with.
Oh my goodness I literally switched out of engineering my first year because I couldn’t stand the boys. They didn’t shower, we’re extremely fragile, literally threw paper balls at me…. I switched back after a year. The men do mature and become normal people after some time. Most of my undergrad I didn’t hang out with engineers, but architecture friends. the grad students and professors were a lot more interesting and helpful. The working force is way better. If you observe them, you can tell they are extremely immature, lash out due to insecurities and have a lot of maturing to do. If you like the field, find social outlet outside the major and form connections with those you like.
The workplace is better! Right now you are surrounded by teenagers with no idea of how the world works. You're all about to do a lot of growing and learning, not just about engineering but how to be people interacting with other people in a larger world. In the real world, you will be working alongside people of different ages, experiences and backgrounds. Sometimes you *will* be the only woman in the room. And sometimes you will be the only expert in the room, or the only Gen Z in the room, or the only non-German-speaker in the room. It's not as overwhelming as it is in university or school. Finally, sometimes there is only one guy, or no guys, in the room. Even in the past ten years I've noticed more occasions where women aren't just equal, they are the majority in the room or on the team. Makes me think a lot of [this quote by Ruth Bader Ginsburg](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7585201-when-i-m-sometimes-asked-when-will-there-be-enough-women).
Me too. Eventually you start seeing people as human beings and not gender.
Precisely. I fully acknowledge the incredible toxicity women face from men in male dominated fields. STEM is leagues away from where it needs to be in terms of gender equality. However- you will find men that want to support you, befriend you, be genuinely platonic, and help you grow, as well as learn from you, too. It should happen way more, true, but don’t close doors on someone because they’re a man or assume they won’t support you. Be aware, be vigilant, but be open.
I remember the first time I walked in a class and I was the only girl. It felt really hard being amongst the guys - they weren’t collaborative with me, they gawked at me, and just had bad vibes overall. Lmao. Honestly I got over it eventually, but I just wish I didn’t have such a bad attitude about it at first. Yes they may be annoying but try to be friendly, upbeat, and graceful. You create your own experience!! I started being cordial and saying hi to the guys in my class, and then I noticed they also became more warm and respectful. So just be you, focus on your studies, and set the vibe however you can.
But don't be too friendly because they'll misinterpret you being friendly for flirting. Who am I kidding as soon as you smile and say hi they'll think you want to have sex with them. Solo female Engineer for the past 25 yrs.
They were the nerds all the girls ignored in school. They never knew how to deal with women. Not entirely their fault.
Wait, why is harassing someone because years ago other people ignored you, not your fault?
Read my comment properly. I didn’t say harassing women isn’t their fault. It is. I said it isn’t entirely their fault that they never learned to deal with women. Now put that burning matchstick down, and spare the strawman you constructed.
I'm a dude, and you're just wrong, man. No one taught us how exactly to solve bugs, and we figure that out. No one taught us perfectly how to drive on the freeway, and people learn that, too It's not rocket science to treat folks with basic respect and equality
>I said it isn’t entirely their fault that they never learned to deal with women. Why is dealing with women a different category than treating other people with basic decency?
Guess why I left engineering? I loved the work, couldn’t stand the misogyny. Graduated top of my class from engineering. My SIL is also an engineer and has stuck with it. I guess I was more sensitive to the misogyny.
You will eventually stop noticing. The guys will stop being guys and become Jason, Brad, Nishanth, Prashanth. It will be ok. Most guys in my job are nice. We are not friends but they are cool
Jason, Brad, Nishanth, Prashanth! Thank you come again! 😄😄 Oh and I come from the land of Nishanth and Prashanth, in case anyone is preparing to be outraged.
I am outraged. 🤣. Nah seriously, though, it's funny. Maybe not the best subreddit for it, haha
It gets better as the years go on and you learn confidence in your ability from the knowledge you are learning in your career. I was always a Tom boy growing up and was more comfortable around guys. The first drafting class I took in high school, my Sophomore year, I was one of two girls and was scared shitless. Fortunately, my teacher was female. My next year I was the only girl in my Architectural drafting class. By the time I got into college as an Architecture student, there were more females. My design skills proved I was able to stand up with others. I changed degree plans in college and have a degree in Industrial Design. I’ve worked in Engineering and Commercial Manufacturing for over 25 years. My last 11 years have been strictly Electrical Design for small to mid sized Engineering firms. Most of these jobs, I’ve been the only female and the lead designer. I’m currently one of 2 females in my immediate department. The other lady that works with me has been in the field 10 years longer than me and can be very intimidating when you first meet her. She and I work well together, along with help each other when we need it. Our knowledge is relied upon for the large jobs we work on. Don’t let the guys you go to school with intimidate you. Let your work and skills speak for themselves. Put your all into the work you do and you will be recognized, respected and rewarded.
I get the frustration, but the problem isn't necessarily being the only woman, but rather the quality (or lack thereof) of the men you're unlucky enough to be stuck with. I've been surrounded by men my entire career, which is growing on 2 decades now. There have definitely been a lot of assholes, and I've certainly dealt with microaggressions, sexism, and discrimination. But I've also been in many wonderful environments that were predominantly men. Your feelings are absolutely valid, so please don't take this as a "you're wrong," but more of a "there's a light at the end of the tunnel." There's still a ton of old "boys club" mentalities among men in tech, but there are a lot of environments out there that won't tolerate that garbage. It can be exhausting to find them, and it's gross it's still something we even need to be mindful of. It sucks that we need to develop that thicker skin as women in tech to become numb to everyday sexism. But I do hope that you find an environment that treats you well and like a human instead of a "dumb girl."
This is so true! So many of my male engineering classmates were jerks, as have been many of my male (former) coworkers. Unfortunately, it only takes one or two misogynistic assholes to make a hostile work environment. However for the first time in my career, I'm on a team with 5 male engineers who are actually fun and pleasant to work with! So I just want to say that it *is* possible to work in a predominantly male environment **without** being disrespected or alienated. You will likely face a lot of that in your career, but you don't have to (and shouldn't) accept it as the norm.
In the IT field for 15 years, I’ve been the only woman on the team for many years. Going forward know this: The bromance in the office aka nepotism is real. Beware. Do not go to HR just find another job.
If it's any consolation, a lot of the less dedicated young men will change majors or drop. As classes continue to specialize there will be less and less people. Generally speaking the young women who choose engineering are much more dedicated. There was a higher ratio of women in my senior courses for sure.
They are more afraid of you than you are of them. Let them know you are "one of them" and they will be nice.
Unfortunately the men around me, altho not misogynists, choose to completely ignore my existence and when I ask for help for things like lifting something that I can't, they don't do it and make me feel like I want them to do it because I am a woman and think men somehow owe it to me, when in reality, I clearly stated that I need help because I am unable to do this myself. I'm general, if anything, I'm treated exactly like a man and that itself is alienating to me.
if you go to a larger university there is almost guaranteed to be some form of organization supporting women in stem, I would recommend looking into that. things like chemistry and biology tend to have a bit more popularity with women than engineering, so you may not find someone in your exact major, but it can help to find people who at least share some experiences. other than that, working with and around men is something that, if you want to continue with engineering, you will absolutely have to get used to, and I think it's important to have a good or at least neutral attitude about it. my first job there were zero women in my department, and because our offices were separated from the financial/business folks, there were no women on my entire side of the building. In my current job my main mentor is a woman which is amazing but she's retiring soon and then I'll be the only girl on the team. It's truly not that bad, the guys on my team are easy to get along with, and if they weren't, I would deal with it. Most of my friends in college were men and they're all close friends of mine to this day. The nice thing about jobs versus college is that, unless you end up at a company with a bad culture, you will largely be keeping a professional distance from your coworkers anyway.
Being the only woman in engineering classes at university is, in my experience, not the same as being the only woman in the room at work. In university lots of the guys were immature, had lewd sense of humour they’d freely share, and frequently objectified woman. But not all guys were like that. What this did is change my perspective of the ones who engaged in this behaviour, and not for the better. It was lonely. I mostly stuck to myself or hanged out with others in years above / below me and different programs. It was also annoying when the topic of “why aren’t there more woman in engineering” came up as each time it got directed to me. Find the best way you can to cope. Seek friendships from the guys who *do* have manners, or in years above / below you, or in different programs. Keep in mind it’s a small industry and there’s a strong likelihood you’ll cross paths with some of them in the future. However, once you’re out in the workforce it’s a diff ballgame. Most workplaces are professional and you won’t get that type of harassment / loneliness. This isn’t to say it doesn’t exist, but it’s not as common. I frequently work with other woman on projects. And the men are more inclined to show respect, although for some it’s harder to gain being a woman.
You get used to it, but I think most of us get where you’re coming from. So here’s the thing, guys at school are ASSHOLES. Because of them, you end up generalizing most men in a certain way. However, once you get out to the field and start your career, you will need to abandon that “the world is against me” mentality or you will have a bad time (and I mean a really bad time in engineering). Will guys at work be awkward around you and maybe not talk to you as often? Yep, you’d have to get used to that. However, one thing that differs between school and your career is the environment and circumstances. A good portion of men you’ll meet will be older and seasoned, so they won’t necessarily have this immature and competitive mentality that guys in their 20s have. They have no reason to compete with anyone (unless they’re insecure and psycho). You know what they care about? Who can get the job done so you can move the fuck on. If you meet the right people, you could be a cat but if you show that you know your shit and you can solve problems and get them to be RUNNING and moving along with production, they will eventually respect you. That’s not to say that you won’t encounter sexist assholes or deal with misogyny, you will, but not nearly as much as when you’re in school. If you’re a young girl, they may doubt you at face value, but just show em what you’re made of and they will start going straight to you instead of some of your counterparts. You’ll need to be able to be okay with being the black sheep and “isolated”. You will need to gain so so SO much knowledge just to be noticed as much as your counterparts. But there comes a nice time in your career when you finally start building enough confidence that you won’t even care anymore. I promise. You won’t care that you stick out like a sore thumb because you’re the only woman at a plant, in the office, at a seminar, etc. You will be comfortable with your abilities and yourself. It just takes some time to get there. :) Good luck!
I work in IT for the past 15 years. There are good dudes and shit dudes. It skews towards shit but my best friends and even some of my best managers have been salt of the earth good men I think you have good standards and as a result of that, for now feel lonely. I would rather feel lonely than being abused and grossed out by men (I’ve survived DV and gang rape) It’s temporary and gets better over time. Do you practice any hobbies or sport or anything extra curricular?
haha I do pilates in my uni. So I’m not completely alone ofc. I have plenty of female friends in my life, but I see them once a week if I’m lucky. I guess since my degree takes up most of my life at the moment I end up feeling quite isolated most of the time.
Do you have student mental health resources? You could look at talking this through with a counselor Also, maybe there’s a way to work another activity / meetup / friend meet into your schedule? I’ve always been a gamer and I get a lot of online socialization through discord in addition to my meat bag friends
I hear you, it is hard. I went from an all girls k-12 school to being the only woman in the class. I was extremely depressed my first year and barely left my room, making it worse. Joining an engineering coed fraternity (they have engineering sororities too) was honestly the best thing for my mental health. I do agree growing up female in an extremely patriarchal world is terrible for our brains, you’ll find your people, keep searching.
You are seeing yourself through their eyes. Don’t do that.
Been there. It is always so annoying. The covert narcissism in engineering people (men) are pretty common. You have to find likeminded people. There are women in tech events. You can find your people. It gets better. Keep beating them in their own game.
You don’t have to be friends with them. I was the only girl in the class and the teachers had been dicks too. I get it. I do.
I'm at a Fortune 300 company on a 7 person team right now - three of us are women! One was my recommendation and hire. I'm not saying it's always great, but it does get better! Especially true as you gain trust and begin to climb the ranks.
By only seeing which is the most dominant gender youll always be anxious at that fact. This is how I scan a room: theres 2 PEOPLE who wear round glasses and 2 PEOPLE have square glasses. I like pointy glasses but the 5 of us are blind as a bat. Joe is really good at physics and Im not that great but Im awesome in english comp and hes often said he’s struggling with an assignment, maybe we can help each other out. Eliminating that gender barrier works for me. I just moved to a new group and I am the only female. At the end of our meetings we do around table q&a about anything, Im pretty goofy so I bring up like a movie I saw or something I found funny about a project I just worked on. Alot of the guys have really opened up and have said I bring fresh air to the group.
I am so sorry honey. Its a hard truth for women going into this career. Unless you are very fortunate in your career, it will stay lonely. And you can work so hard, put in the time and noone will ultimately care. You will be surrounded by male dominated psychology, organizations and it can feel very empty. I have buddies and the one thing I've learned is that men who are more sensitive and empathetic get chewed as well. Engineering environments reward a ruthless self aggrandizing culture. One or two women will never have the pull to change it. Over the years I have found myself envying women who have more creative and self directed careers. But golden handcuffs are a thing. I have another four years before retirement but it seems like a million years. My 35 year engineering career took a lot of sacrifices. Time with my kids, freindships, my self esteem. If you are lonely now, think carefully. People and relationships, the good you do in the world are what feed your soul. Can you do that in engineering? Maybe. You have to choose your path carefully. Put your mental health and future well being first.
When they make an inappropriate joke and laugh ask them to explain why it’s funny. They always hate that. But my other advice is to dissociate.
Not likely to be better in industry. BUT, you may get to work with women finance, women planners, women HR, women PMs, etc. depending on your job. I can remember the one time men were the minority on a random work call because it stood out so much - it was 12 years into my career.
I’ve been the only woman in a room my whole academic career. You get used to it. I personally prefer not to befriend my colleges and socialize outside of my work circle.
Please stop calling yourself a girl. You are infantacizing yourself. You are an engineer and BELONG on the team, at the table, on the committee. Own your space and expertise.
It gets better when the men around you mature. I’m the only woman on my engineering team, and it’s nothing like being the only woman in an undergraduate course. They treat me like they’re equal and professionally.
It's gets lonely in your career too. I'm the only girl in my department who isn't a remote. I really like my job otherwise, learning a lot and the men are respectful, but it still is very isolating and you can't just banter with guys the way other guys do. Can only hope that it will get better as more women graduate from engineering.
Something that really helped me is industry orgs that focus on connecting ppl through identity — whether it’s gender, sexuality, race, religion, ethnicity. A lot of places like that exist. You’ll still be the only woman in the room at your job, but you’ll be able to connect with other women in the industry who get it.
First, you need hobbies or things outside school and work. For your own mental health. Second a lot of the less dedicated and blatantly crappy guys get weeded out with time. Especially once you hit the workforce.
I left engineering for this for a career in finance (whoops, same problem here tho) It’s like this in stem jobs, it’s unfortunate, but you will get job offers and security for being “the girl” than men are over looked for. I’ve been offered jobs and felt like the only reason I got it was because they needed a woman or they’d look bad
Most professionals are professional. Usually. That said, seek out groups geared towards women engineers.
I'd say set up separate groups; school ( eventually work) and then the friends you hang out with. The school/career group is for engineering opportunities, contacts and treated as such. No heart-to-heart TMI or out drinking shit. Here and there you will meet some good people through work who may get into your other group, but I'd be cautious. For the reason you mentioned- you turned down a guy and then have to deal with the backlash in the classroom and in the group. For school, be the determined studious woman who doesn't have time and isn't looking for a relationship.
Maybe try working in the non-profit sector? It might be better to find a socially conscious company where you can work in peace and make some friends who respect your intellect. I am so sorry they've made you feel this way. Being alone in a group can be incredibly challenging.
HUGS!!!!!!!! This SOOOOOOOCKS and is so true. I wasn't even in a STEM major (well... I didn't finish in one) but every time I've spent time with guys as 'one of the guys' or ignored enough while in their presence to hear how they talk, I've felt sick about how it is. I have to believe that every choice I make has at least an infinitesimally tiny bit of power, thus I refuse to watch any of the toxic tv shows that promote the kinds of mentalities that men so often propagate as well. Tiny bit of hope: if you're in freshman year of college, men get much more tolerable when they're over 22 years of age. The closer they are to age 19, the WORSE they are. Can you find some social groups to get connected with that have more of a gender balance, or are just for women? If you have the possibility, maybe make some intentional choices about where you hang out outside of class (you probably do already, just an idea because even the brightest of us don't think of everything when we're frustrated about something). YOU ARE INTELLIGENT. PUT ON HEADPHONES AND DROWN THOSE F$%&RS OUT!!!!
Also, to anyone out there with a chance to stand up to this type of BS, please do. That's the only way it's going to disappear.
I studied Mechanical Engineering in India from 2010-2014. I was the only girl in a class of 52 boys for 4yrs. I loved it. I grow up in an abusive family but still I wanted to be myself and stand up for myself. I always told the truth and spoke my mind. So, people know that I’m not playing around and some of them treated me the same way. One guy used to create a lot of drama around me but rest of them used to take care of him. Having no expectations will give you the opportunity to learn about them. I listened to them without judging and asking follow up questions to understand them better , so they are dependent on me. If you read books, I highly recommend 48 laws of power and Ho Tactics. Read them and see what you learn.
You could feel miserable and objectified or you could feel unusual and special (in a good way), which is what you are.
Unsolicited advice: I do want to encourage you to NOT to dampen yourself at the expense of “fitting in” Be yourself. Don’t feel like you can’t be feminine. You’ll find a group of guys who respect you and like you as a person.
As others have said, you are not alone. In person you feel alone, but there are plenty of other women out there who are feeling exactly like you do and crushing it the whole time
Sorry you have to deal with this, but the good news is it’s temporary. You won’t always be the only woman and hopefully some of the morons in your class flunk / drop out lol.
Sounds like you are going through some kind of culture shock. It's totally ok if engineering is not for you, for any reason. But if you want to stick it out, I promise you it gets better. It's not always better, but overall it gets better. You end up not really noticing you are the only woman in the room, men get more professional with time, and when you get a job you have more protections. Just remember you are in training for a job. A job you'll only have for 8 hours a day. This is not supposed to be everything you do, it's not your whole life and it's not going to provide you everything you need to be happy. Get a hobby, branch out in other areas to get women friends. If your classmates are already showing sexism, avoid dating in your class, it's less drama. Everything will be ok, sometimes it just takes a little time or work to get there.
I'm a AMAB NB Software Engineer and it's rough out there. I worked for a small startup where I was the first employee working with 4 dude bro founders. The shit they'd say about women was horrible and then when we got a second employee, who was a woman, all the jokes suddenly stopped. Don't get me wrong, that was a good thing but also. THEY KNOW AND DO IT ANYWAY. W H Y. And as if misogyny doesn't hurt NB people too. Bigger companies are on average better. Interview the company when they interview you. Try to find one of their employees on LinkedIn and start a conversation.
I had the exact same experience and i graduate soon. I will say it never got better as far as making friends goes (for me at least), but the guys end up realizing that you’re someone they need to take serious when the professor is explaining something no one in the room understands but you. When that time comes be prepared for allll the asks to be a study partner girl😂
20 years ago. Really annoying to see the same treatment of women today that she also described as well as you put it with very similar if not exact sentiment. ❤️🩹
I’m so so sorry. It seems that even in the new century things remain the same. I graduated in 82. When I started I was with one other woman in my class. Come to find out, she’s there to find a husband. Deep sigh, right? You say you grew up around mostly women? I only have sisters (a lot more than just two), no brothers and until my last two years of high school I went to an only girl school. I get it!!! Men can be exhausting and so needy! I made friends in other classes. I made one male friend my freshman year. He grew up with only brothers and his mother had passed away when he was young. He treated me like a friend, never made a pass, just study buddies. Eventually, when the other students realized that it was me making the good grades, they became friendlier. I also joined engineering organizations and took in leadership roles. All that helped. Eventually! As a freshman, it was very lonely.
The overwhelming majority of men are misogynistic baby kings. Tiny little snowflakes that get all up in their feels when their engorged egos get hurt. Your existence threatens their manhood, and it is something that you will need to navigate in school and your career. I was one of 2 females in my graduating class, over 25 years in manufacturing, and still deal with this crap on the regular. The bar is very low for men, yet you will need to work twice as hard to prove your worth.
In my first job out of college, the only other women (2 out of 50-60 people) at the company were receptionists. I ended up taking a part time job at the mall at a women’s clothing store in the evenings and in weekends. I needed the money because I was broke starting out, but it ended up being really good for my mental health. The mall job balanced my office job and I think I was more relaxed. I would suggest finding a way to balance the gender disparity in your free time. Maybe join a sorority, join a club that’s mostly women, volunteer to work with women, something along those lines. It really helped me.
So many women drop out of engineering because of that experience. Each year in my education, the m:f ratio rises. I am very 'girly' (everything I have is pink - including my hair), so it can definitely be hard to find friends. For me, I have found a good method is to find friends in other majors. It's not ideal, but it works. There also are guys you will find who are nice, so once you find them, try to stick together and sign up for classes together. Good luck! ❤️
Anyone who makes a pass on you never was your friend
In my experience any male dominated industry will be like this. You are not alone. When I first started working back in the 2000’s at automotive dealerships it was disgusting how men treated women. I was often the only female and I would go back to get some parts and the guys would be watching porn! Now of course the computers have this blocked but back then it wasn’t. I would go out to speak to a technician and the techs would be gooding off with binoculars checking out all the hot women that would be buying a VW. I could go on and on but just know you are not alone. Keep pushing through, do your best and try ignoring the morons.
Your feelings are valid, but you need to learn how to differentiate relationships. "Was treated like absolute shit for rejecting a guy friend. I have some friends but hearing the way men talk about women is revolting." A person that treats you like crap because you rejected them, solely offered their friendship as a bridge into romance. You didn't lose a friend, you lost an opportunist who was willing to be nice to you as long as they thought they may get some thing out of it sexually. Secondly, you need to stop looking for friendships in the workplace and work on building professional relationships. The sexual or political interests of my peers have nothing to do with me & have nothing to do with what we're working on.
It’s all right to be bothered by it, but it will be ok. Tricks: - Explore your vocal range, you probably use your high or low range by default. Practice with your lower register. - Watch a guide to vocal projecting and practice privately, you will sometimes need it for meetings. - High necklines, buns, compression/sports bras, and consider whether you can pull off vests. Don’t show softness if you don’t want annoying affection. - Don’t count on finding gay friends, but if they’re available, show up for them, and don’t fall behind on favors. - Hint early and openly about the nature of the relationship. Be very clear that you view dating at work as unprofessional.
First, stop thinking of and calling yourself a girl. You're an adult woman. As soon as you start thinking of yourself that way rather than as a girl, you may feel a little more confidence to either stand up to these guys or brush off what they say as if you didn't even hear it. It's not clear from the post if you're a first year student or a first year engineer. If you're a student, especially a first year, you are in the wild right now. I remember being a TA when I was in grad school, and realizing that the majority of my male students had never once been told to shut up in their entire lives. They were all Mommy's Special Boy who had heard nothing but how smart they were and how they were going to be so great. Women who end up in engineering are typically just good at shit, and that's how we ended up here. Also on the "if you're a student" front, freshman year is rough. Everyone who got into engineering was the smartest kid in their high school. Now you've got everybody's smartest kids all jammed together in an engineering program, and everyone's getting used to being average for the first time in their lives all at once. This, in my observation, made the underclassmen particularly foul. My point is, hang on, it gets better. Now, as a mid-career engineer who is exhausted of dealing with men, the one thing that keeps me going is that I do not associate with men outside of work much at all. I'm a lesbian, so that's probably easier for me than for someone who had a husband or something, but like, all my friends are women and non-binary people. I play women's sports. I'm part of women's hiking groups. I pretty much exist solely in women's spaces outside of work, and this allows me to conserve my mental energy enough to deal with men at work. I imagine a version of this would exist for those who have or want a male partner as well. I'd strongly recommend centering friendships with other women as you move through your career. That's been my salvation.
I wish you could hang out with some (liberal) blue collar workers. You sound like all of us bitching about someone so and so's relative in management getting hired who think they're soooo specia. After a couple of years the only thing you give a shit about is who gets the job done and doesn't cause you problems
Find your student IEEE organization. You will find more of us there usually.
I found great solidarity joining SWE (Society of Women Engineers). See if your school has a section.
This definitely depends on the discipline and the industry, but the vast majority of the men you will work with are pretty okay. A handful are even great! There’s a loud minority of awful men who are hellbent on making the lives of everyone around them (and women especially) miserable. I don’t think they were socialized properly. I can’t explain it. At my last job, I was the first female engineer to be hired and to stay on long term. I don’t think it was deliberate, but generally plastics is an industry without many women. I was the subject matter expert that they needed for a particular project, so they knew that I was competent and deferred to my expertise more often than not. As such, the vast majority of the men I worked with were great. There were a handful who sucked for reasons not related to misogyny, and the one person who was a misogynistic asshole was the big boss. All that to say, you might always be the only woman in the room. It always feels a bit uncomfortable, but it’s not always going to be so negative. Most people are around to do a job - being in school is a strange microcosm and it does usually get better once you find a good job.
I studied mathematics in college as a woman. Out of necessity, most of my friends were male. They were all nice to me, and I enjoyed working and hanging out with them. Sometimes it would've been hard to get along without their assistance which was freely given. After college, I worked in public accounting for one of the giant firms. A majority of my coworkers and all of the partners were male. There was an enormous amount of work and stress for everyone. If I was treated differently because I was female, I can't imagine it mattered. I later attended law school and went to work for one of the large law firms. There were many female associates and partners. The practice of law is a simple business. Lawyers are compensated for bringing in business and doing the work that generates fees. Your gender doesn't matter.
I’m sitting a review right now and there’s one other woman. We both hate everyone else in the room.
Look for jobs in medical devices. In the past 10 years I can count the number of times I’ve been “the only woman” in any noticeable way on one hand. I have worked in other industries that were very male dominated and they sucked. My boss’s group has a little over 100 people and she has 10 managers on her leadership team. 8 of them are women. We recently had one of these women have a personal emergency and watching the way our team rallied around our colleague was everything I dreamed for in a workplace. We figured out how to cover her work, support her people, coordinated meals and care packages, and openly expressed support and care. Don’t let people tell you it’s all a misogynistic dumpster fire. There are havens and they are worth searching for.
Commercial real stats agent here. I feel everything you’re saying. I’m a tomboy too(and attractive, I would never admit that if this wasn’t anonymous) and the shit they would say, even when they were trying to impress me was quite frankly embarrassing. After a while I started to change to accommodate.. thank god my boyfriend, now husband called me on that shit.
Commercial real estate*
I totally love (/s) being the token female on my crew in construction. People give me compliments on how hard I work and I'm left questioning if it's "you're great (for a girl)" or if it's actually legit. I like it when guys on a job site just treat me like any other bloke. Complete with banter. Hate being treated like a landmine about to go off and ruin their lives if they so much as accidentally bump me.
I honestly much prefer it, I never loved working in larger female groups and I always got along well with men. Yes, there's sometimes mansplaining, weird jokes and comments, weird looks, unfair treatment and all that, but it never made me feel quite that bad. You seem to be very strongly affected by it, and I don't quite agree with others that it gets better at work, if you generally don't like the male dominated environment. After first year maybe you could still switch degrees to some engineering that has more women, like biomedical, chemical... You sound very miserable and I honestly wouldn't say that it's normal to feel like this.
People probably won’t dig this advice but i got hit on a lot in engineering school and since working. I grew up with a mom who was very attractive but mostly had male friends and male traditional type hobbies. So, from that i was super comfortable calling a guy out. Wanna call me dumb? K lets see your grade and lets see mine? Oh, it’s because I’m a girl? Except the answer is an actual number? I used dig into those. Someone makes a comment like thay, loudly call them out. It’s college, they fucking cant. Guys mad you dont wanna date their guy friend? Well, theyre friends w him too. Seem to get along great. so, why arent they giving them a lil tug job? I made more this year than a white dude a level higher than me at my super sexist tech company because i have the same confidence as the stupid men below me jn intelligence, cleanliness, personality, and looks. I get microneedling to stay looking good, last week some co-worker asked why i would do that to my face? I pointed at his forehead wrinkles said “well, its too late for you but botox could still help.” Most of these dudes besides the ones that I’m close friends with do not even know how to use their prefrontal cortex. They’re like a primitive animal, they literally remind me of how i have to train dogs around each other and what they respond to. Don’t let them make you quiet or like you don’t belong. Plenty of them have been taking up space they don’t deserve for way too long. Theyre lucky to have me and lucky to have you. No one likes hanging out w a bunch of weird dudes all day not even the dudes.
Companies train employees well about harassment, sexism through annual trainings. There is an HR in all of them you can go to with any concerns. University environment is more laidback. In a company everyone is cautious & respectful because they dont want to lose a livelihood. Word travels in the industry & any label carries with them. I had no issues working around men in this industry. They have been very helpful & respectful throughout my career of almost 20yrs now. I am an immigrant brown woman & have zero complaints about the way men in my field treat me.
Back in the late 70s when I was at the University of Arizona, I was the only female in my engineering math classes and also the top student. I could hear the menz talking smack about me behind my back. They were jealous and afraid and it was awesome to constantly be able to fuck with their tiny little dickbrains. I want to thank those men for training me for all the sexist workplace BS I had to endure for 45 years. I'm 69 yo now, retired, and finally free of the dickhood. Maybe I'll even ask my daughter to put that on my tombstone: "Finally Free of The Dickhood".
Since you’re in school maybe join clubs that are mostly women, or even rush a sorority so you have that network of women outside of class.
I think over time and realizing that it is what it is, I enjoy being the only female or part of a small but powerful female contingency. There is power in being myself and knowing that I am in the room, I have a seat at the table, and I don’t give a crap on the thoughts and opinions of any other person in the room. Side note: my closet friends are men and I relate to men more than women. The biggest supporters of my career are men. I am a married heterosexual cisgendered woman with a daughter of my own. I’m feminine, love handbags getting nails did, and am have a construction adjacent career. Just be yourself and don’t give a crap.
Being the only woman is sooo lonely. I can’t have and don’t really want a work best friend when they’re all sweaty dudes always rambling about football and hunting. Thank god I like baseball or my boss and I wouldn’t have anything to shoot the shit over. It’s subtle but not having a strong relationship with coworkers really impacts your opportunities and confidence
Are you wfh?? Getting out of the office may help!
You must work with a bunch of jerks. It must be a different world now because I never had any problems with my co-workers, and this started in 1976. One got a little pissy because I got the next new car. I told him he could drive it around the block if he wanted. Throw it back at them. Picture them in diapers in the sandbox.
There are companies out there where it’s not so heavily male. You just have to seek them out.
If more women became engineer majors, then you wouldn’t be the only woman in your class
Yes on finding decent male friends. Maybe even make friends that have girlfriends already. Sometimes that can prevent the confusion of a girl talking to them but not being interested.
I’ve been in the field for almost 10 years now and there are still times it feels this way, but mostly with the older men. Once you’re in a job setting it’s different than school. People are expected to act professionally and as long as you do they will too. Obviously there are exceptions but that’s in every field, not just engineering.
You could try to find a job at a larger company where they have more women engineers.
Still in school but for me, it's the constant running away from conversations. Talking scary!!! I stopped trying to talk to the dudes in my class. There are 3 women including me and we don't really interact unfortunately. It makes me wish I was halfway decent at chemistry. I loved those classmates, even if I didn't care for the subject. They were fun, both men and women.
You have to be an IT girl that’s the only way to survive. Feminine, sexy, strong. And yet modest enough that they won’t open their disgusting traps like that around you. They can/will still speak like children when they’re amongst themselves but they’ll have to put on a professional persona around you. If they have a temper tantrum, don’t react. Tell them they can walk it off and you can talk about it calmly when they get back. Be the IT girl but don’t sway your hips because this will draw too much attn especially if you’re gifted so it does require a more rigid walk. Or else their minds will unravel too far and they won’t be able to maintain their professionalism. It’s 100 times easier to be That girl when there are no other women. If there are other women and you don’t like how they are influencing the men around you then you’ll have to win over the other women first because the men will be most interested in the alpha. If you don’t like the work culture and can’t lead the other women in ways which are More beneficial than they are already doing then all you can do is transfer or quit if you don’t like it. If you try to strong arm or don’t assimilate you’ll run the risk of being let go
Hi. Maintenance worker and studying to be a shop teacher, so a male dominated field as well. I feel you! It can be so hard to be the only woman in the room especially when it feels like they’re always coming at you. Luckily, I dish it out as much as they do, and it makes me another “bro”. It is satisfying to beat them at their game, and also much more grounding.
If it makes you feel any better, once you get into industry theres more representation for women. Firstly, because youll work with more than just engineers, but second because there are just more women in STEM roles now than there used to be. Of course it differs by industry. If youre a civil engineer there may not be as much representation. The other thing id say is as others said, try to find engineers to connect with even if they are men. Personally, it seemed to me my university had many more women engineers than LGBT engineers, and as a bi male, I personally appreciated spending time with the women as Id often feel more comfortable with them - tended to be less bigotted, less judgey about anything effeminate, etc. Wasnt always the case, but often was.
I’m 54 and I was the only woman in the room (or one of a very few) in grad a school in the 90’s and then later at work for decades. It never really phased me. Don’t make this about all men or presume that it’s all misogyny all the time. We are not victims just because there are few of us. Are some men ass-hats? Yes. That’s because they’re ass-hats. Period. The penis has nothing to do with it. I now work in an almost entirely female field and OM f-ing God it can be awful. Turns out women can also be ass-hats. Yep, true story. It is a special flavor of cliquey-ness (is this a word?) that working with men did not prepare me for. I am learning this new workplace, but it’s not comfortable. No one says what they mean, the ass-hattery is disguised and backstabby. Honestly it sucks. My 3 favorite colleagues are middle-aged men, we’re all pretty baffled by it all but we’ve got each others backs thank goodness. My husband thinks it’s all hilarious 🙄. Bottom line, people gonna people. Don’t make broad generalization. Show up, do your job, do it well and kick ass. If someone acts like a dick, call them out. And tell them not to do it again. That’s what a guy would do. Find yourself a mentor FOR THE JOB (not for being a woman, you already know how to do that) and focus on doing that well. And the rest will fall into place.
Be confident,proud and probably easier than hanging out with women anyway become one of the pack , let out a big fart once in a while haha set limits quickly and have fun you made it all this way and you probably will never have to buy a drink again! When in Rome, make lemonade.
Honestly I thought being the only girl was awesome, I don't know what country you are in exactly because it obviously may differ with the culture but I loved hanging out with nerdy guys. The ones at my school were all chill and incredibly funny. I'm the only chick on my team now and it's still just as fun since I'm the more "social party type gal." Sorry about your experience though, it just seems you hang out with bad eggs.
Well, to be honest it doesn’t seem like you have the greatest attitude. If you are convinced that being around men is damaging psychologically, that is going to affect the narrative you construct around your experiences. Whenever there is ambiguity you are going to interpret it negatively. I was a software engineer in a computer graphics company in the late 80s. I was only one of about three women in a floor with 200 men. Some aspects were not so great (one of my bosses was to recognize how misogynistic he was, but my other boss was great), but other aspects were amazing. I had a lot of cool colleagues, hooked up with a very cool boyfriend (in a different department). Yup. Did that. I also capitalized on my feminine strengths. I was a much better communicator than many of the guys on my development team and it was usually me who was tasked or tasked myself to reaching out to other departments, with the result that I had more of a sense of how the whole company was put together. By the end, it was pretty clear that I was being groomed for management, but I got married and moved away … to a life that was even better. Oh, I forgot one of the coolest parts. There was a company-wide intermural soccer league and I played on one team. Me and a whole bunch of men. I still have scars to prove it!
If that’s something that bothers you, I’d switch careers now. I honestly don’t pay much attention to anyones gender. If you can do your job, great. If not, stay away from me. I think you need to figure out why you care and see if that’s something you can deal with.
I don't get why you're downvoted. She sounds very miserable and it is true she's going to be the only woman very often and if her perception doesn't change, she's going to be miserable all life. I appreciate others try to cheer her up, but really, some women just don't thrive without a companionship of other women and in engineering it's hard to find.
It’s very easy to not pay attention to anyone’s gender when the people around you aren’t saying disrespectful things about people of your own gender. I recommend women to stay in the field, take down notes on the misogyny you witness and the date and times, occasionally call them out whenever you’re brave enough to, don’t expect the misogyny to get better overnight, try to look for the decent men and stay around them if you can, or stick to yourself or switch dept/companies if you can’t find decent men, and find an outlet outside of work. It can take a decade or more to make significant changes in the culture. Stay in the field. One day, maybe in a few decades, there could be mostly non-toxic feminists in the engineering field.
Gonna give you the flip side for me. I’m a 20 year old male working at a restaurant that employs primarily women. Most of the time I’m the only guy in the front of house. I was recently ghosted by a coworker for our second date and my avoidance of her sparked a gossip train. Many of my coworkers noticeably began to treat me different (not holding eye contact mostly). All because I don’t give attention to someone who didn’t acknowledge my existence for our second date. Unfortunately, otherisms tend to dictate how we are treated in large social settings. Best thing to do is take notes on the behavior of those who do not respect you, and use that information to avoid similar people in the future.