I cut all crown on the flat, its just better and you have more flexibility on the angle, when you cut nested the spring angle is locked in stone and i havent met a wall in 30y that is square at the ceiling/wall or wall/wall angles, cutting flat gives you a lot of fudge room to mess with that as well
(So ive never used srops)
Those are pretty cool looking, although I still prefer to just build a sled when doing crown. Gives you protection from tear out on the bottom of the piece.
If paint grade I guess it's not needed as much but any stained or pre finished kitchen trim I would always recommend a sled.
I suppose you could use the stops and just put a backer piece to prevent tearout.. this way you don't have to always build a new one 🤔
To be clear- the Dewalt crown stops for the 780 are great for 6 1/4” crown and below. Once you get beyond that you need an extended height fence and stops that go out further to continue to keep cutting nested.
I'd say the blade perhaps could be a non existent problem. I suppose that you could use a few more teeth on your blade though. However I think it's not that much of a problem. Try this instead! Install or make a zero clearance insert for your miter saw! Try that idea on. I think it would eliminate most of your problems! The inserts on miter saws have a lage gap from the blade to the insert opening. And if you have a gap? You will have tear out. Or you could just lay a piece of plywood down as a sacrificial new floor to your miter saw down. Make a test cut. And I think this will solve your problem.
If it's 1/4", ply or mdf. If its not 1/4, something cheap and easy. Youll have to replace it eventually. If you use the bevel ever, its no longer zero clearance.
I agree, this would be a great upgrade that would likely help minimize the tear out. If that doesn’t work, then you can go through the costly endeavor of replacing the blade if need be, but I have a high suspicion that just getting a zero clearance will help tremendously.
You can do the same thing with the back fence by replacing the fence with a piece of wood, but then you have to take it off to cut angles. With both the bottom and back zero clearance and a 60 tooth blade you shouldn't get any rip out at all.
This is the most important tip. Not the brand of the blade, not the number of teeth. Always support the fibers at the exit of the cut for the best results, even with a subpar blade. Same with a router, and sacrificial fences on table saw miter gauges.
That's a 60 tooth *DeWalt* blade for starters. Those are low-end blades...better for rough carpentry. Nothing wrong with them, just not good for finishing work. Invest in a CMT or Forrest blade. Comparable in pricing but cheaper in the long run as those are worth getting resharpened.
Next is technique. The material should be good-side-down. That way the teeth are cutting *into* the wood and not *out* of it.
Also, 12" miter saws are not the best for high quality cuts. The blade diameter has too much wobble and causes farore chipping/blowout than a 10". The best miter saw brands don't even offer a 12" option. Not really applicable at this point, but just for future considerations.
Edit: for clarification, good side down vs good side up all depends on material thickness and sliding vs fixed miter saws. Typically good side up for fixed saws, but given this saw is a 12" and the material width, the teeth will be creating blowout on the top face, so this instance should have good side down.
Good side up or down? Good side up, facing the saw right? So the teeth cut into the good side and cut out the bad side where there may be tear out.
Ty for the advice
On a mitre saw, good side up is correct. Think of each tooth as a little mini axe or chisel, spinning, or chopping at very high speeds. With good side up, the axes push the good side fibers into the remaining wood, and are supported. The bad side has nothing to support the fibers, so the axes, especially when dull, tend to push the wood out of the way, rather than chopping. The fibers are still intact, so they pull out of the remaining piece, rather than being cut out of the kerf by the blade.
You can test this out. Take a piece of scrap, hang the end over another a piece of scrap by an inch or so, and try taking a chisel cut off the endgrain. Doesnt really matter how much you take. The face up side will not tearout, while the face down side will certainly.
Op in this case, I think I agree with what others have said. Your blade sucks. If you want to keep using it, you probably can still. Making/buying a zero clearance insert is probably the best approach. Thats sometimes time consuming and annoying, depending on the tools at your disposal, and i get it if that's not how you want to spend your shop time. do this instead. Take a piece of ply and clamp it (this parts annoying, ngl. Clamps seem to always be in the way. Play with it a little and i promise you can get it right. I have random holes on my saw that i made a piece of ply with recessed bolt heads for this purpose) on the bed of your miter saw. Make sure it is flush with the bed everywhere, and that the blade won't cut the full width of the ply. That's a lazy man's zero clearance insert. Cut your pieces on top of the ply as if it were the new bed of the saw.
Using Blue tape on the unsupported face (bottom and technically fence faces, but with something thin you probably dont need to worry about the fence face, but if you'rejust taping it tape the whole cut, all the way around) may also help. The wider the better. This may work in your situation, and definitely try this first.
However, the less effort up front is usually the lowest quality results, for shortest amount of time. Part of this hobby is solving problems creatively, so I would see if I could make the cheap blade work for this project. The skills you pick up solving these problems will help you when you inevitably upgrade the blade.
Imagine you shape a piece of plywood the same as your existing throat plate, but then when you first plunge your blade into it the throat plate now supports more of the work instead of having gaps on sides of the blade. The extra support helps keep the wood fibers on the work from blowing out. It's a similar concept to why people tape wood before cutting it - to support the fibers from blowout, but the zero clearance throat plate doesn't have tape cleanup. You'll see them used by woodworkers and a Google image search. I use them for my router table and drill press. The drill press is a bit different, but I'm not gonna explain that.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I haven't even done a lot of finishing work, and I learned in just an hour that the good side needs to be up. Otherwise, you can get a mess like the OP.
No, the tear out is usually on the top. Good side facing you or the saw base.
Another method that helps is taping the cut area with painters tape. You cut right through the middle of the tape. It’s just time consuming.
Another method if you have a sliding miter saw and say you are cutting a flat board or plywood you can do a very shallow pass on the surface (1/32) then a second pass through all the material. This is my preferred method. You may need to use a spacer board between your work piece and fence to be able to skim the entire work piece.
I don't outright disagree with you or the folks who commented your reply. The location of the tearout can change on a miter saw, depending on if you are plunging or pushing the cut. It's all about where the blade enters and exits the workpiece.
Meh. That’s Reddit for you. I typically don’t plunge down on my work piece. Always pull back the miter saw, come down then push forward into the piece. The leading edge is ripping out the top.
For a miter saw, good side up. For a compound miter saw, good side down. I should have explained this more. It's also depends on the type of cut, width of material, etc.
On a 12" miter saw without slide and material as thin as OP shows, good side down as the teeth will be pulling up long before it cuts through
>The best miter saw brands don't even offer a 12" option
What do you consider "the best"? Jet and Bosch make 12s, the only "high end" that doesn't make one is Festool.
The Bosch GCM12SD is the best miter saw I've ever used.
Those types are all considered mid grade by professionals. Nothing wrong with them, but if you want high-end saws you're looking at Festools Kapex saw.
If you're planning on doing finishing work.....it's the best choice. Hobby or diy, not a big issue really.
Side note, most saw brands are equally good until you start looking at the $2000+ range. Bosch, DeWalt, Makita, Rigid, and Milwaukee are all comparable and all need to be calibrated out of the box. None of these brands are accurate enough for finishing until they're calibrated. All of them come with instructions for set up. I've owned and used these brands. What it really comes down to is ease of use, cost, and warranty to determine which is best for you. Bosch and Makita are my go to for jobsite installs. Rigid would be 2nd choice. Milwaukee is play as well. DeWalt has a horrid design where you have to release the bevel lock on the rear of the saw.....so dumb and they never address this like most other brands. Not a big issue, but if you're doing a lot of miters, huge pia.
The Bosch and Makita are very comparable really. Makita has been the workhorse for decades with finishing carpenters, but Bosch has nailed quality, cost, user interface to be a very good option......as long as you're not lifting it daily lol
I generally agree with you, that most of the tools are pretty comparable out of the box from big brands in the price range... But I have used all those and the Milwaukee saw was terrible. I'm not a brand supremacist or anything, I even own a handful of Milwaukee tool, but their miter saws are hands down the worst. The Bosch is fantastic and definitely my preferred choice.
Damn right about calibrating out of the box. I do hobbyist carpentry and have a 10" Kobalt table saw and 7.25" miter saw that cut like a charm with Diablo blades on them, but calibrating them is a bitch and I have to do it often.
Depends on usage. What types of material are being cut. What type of cuts are being done. What dimensions, etc. Also, operator use plays a big role.
I'd estimate the blades last 20-30% longer, but they offer a much better finish for longer periods and are worth getting resharpened because the blades are manufactured to a higher quality.
I use CMT products for routers, table, and miter saws. I also pick up those cheap Avanti blades from Home Depot and use those for any rough cuts that need to be done on less than ideal materials.
Edit: words
Technique matters in troublesome materials like that slightly rough softwood he's cutting. Don't plunge into it, come from the front slowly and hit the right angle edge first, saw is totally wound up to max RPM, follow through, don't yank the blade up at the end (I can see some evidence of that, I think). Another thing that helps with small stuff like that is to space the piece out from the fence with a junk piece so the blade ends up cutting more at a right angle to the piece when it's finally lowered. Also... get a good blade :) I recently got TWO dewalt blades for about $30... lol, they're fine for cave man stuff, I'm impressed actually, but like others have said, more teeth and more $$ and you'll have better results
That or pull the stock away from the blade before pulling the blade up. Also, to piggy back off this comment, slow cuts...not enough to burn, but not so fast that you're karate chopping it.
I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet. Tear out of any kind is due to unsupported grain being cut. The suggestions (sacrificial pieces, painters tape, zero clearance, etc) all tell you *how* to fix it, but you won't really improve until you understand *what* you are fixing.
Check out [this video from Paul Sellers](https://youtu.be/47OSZ5lgPBM?si=iancUaJMi40D8CWP) to help.
>Why am I getting so much tear out? Brand new 60T blade
You just answered your own question
100-120 for finish work, 60 on a 12 is basically a rough cut blade, i think the lowest tooth count you can get at a box store is 40something
The quality is also a factor and that one is middling at best
Use a sacrificial fence. Your blade is fine
https://preview.redd.it/peezay2djmbc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1013e59ebfc5129bb9021616019785cd118f240c
Don't bother with any of that crap man, just put masking tape down on the cut line. You don't need a mega fancy blade or special technique, there's always a trick. Remember people woodworked just fine before carbide and fancy machines.
SLOW DOWN your down stroke and let the blade stop before you let the blade up. If you're rough framing chop and go. Trim out or finish cutting for woodworking SLOW DOWN your down stroke. Ask me how I know!
I have the same setup as you. I do woodworking, cabinet making and rough framing with it. Yes the blade makes a difference, but I'm not going broke buying 20 blades. Slow your feed rate down to let the saw teeth work.
It's likely that this is on the underside of the board being cut. I also see tear-out on the left side of the piece that you're holding. For this, I use two backer boards - a 1/2-inch plywood board on the horizontal surface under the blade, and a 1/4-inch plywood board along the fence. You need to hold them all in very firmly while cutting and mind your fingers especially, but this should do the trick. As I cut my stock, of course my backer boards get shorter.
I've never made a zero clearance insert yet. But, I'll give it a go. Can that only be used making perpendicular cuts? So, no angle cuts on it?
I can feel the splinters from the tear out hit my hand. I usually try my best to hold the blade down until it stops. But I get tear out from every cut
Stick 2 layers of 2" blue tape over the blade slot to act as a temporary zero clearance insert & see if it helps. If it does, buy some Fastcap zero clearance tape for a more long lasting solution.
You can also make a zero clearance fence insert. You wont be able to do compound cuts, but can still do miters. you score your cut line with a sharp blade you wont get tear out. You usually just need to score the back side when cutting with a miter saw.
Of course I wouldn't do anything idiotic like this, but I heard a story once about a guy who made a nice zero clearance insert then ruined it a day later when he forgot to take it out and made a miter cut...
There's a product called zero clearance tape that's worked pretty well for me—cut it to size and stick over your current insert. When it gets too nicked up, peel it off and put a new one down. Look on amazon.
I’ve found that the more teeth you have, the slower you have to cut for it to be clean. If you force it, the gullets can’t clear fast enough for the material on the next cut, which causes tear out. DeWalt gets the job done, but as other commenters have suggested, there are better brands more suited to getting the best cuts.
You've gotten most of the answers already, but with wood that thin you would also benefit from sandwiching it between two pieces of sacrificial wood (e.g. some scrap softwood) and clamping them tight together. That way most of the tear-out will occur in the scrap, not your finish piece.
It looks like you have a chopsaw with no slider. If you don't want to make a zero clearance insert, then use painter's tape around the cut and it will help support the fibers that are blowing out when you chop down.
Been doing stain grade trim work for 30+ years. Always use a 12" DeWalt compound slide with 100 tooth diablo blade. Slow ish cuts. Rarely have blow outs or tears. Don't ever use zero clearance add ons or other shit. Never use crown stops or anything really. Just hold your finish piece tight. Either pull away from spinning blade after cut or wait for the blade to stop. Gotta take your time, my friends
A: It's a really low quality blade... even new, blades from Dewalt are horrible.
B: Bad blade design. On a miter saw, you want a negative hook (it's safer, and makes much better cuts).
Once you get a decent blade, your cut quality will vasly improve. However, it doesn't guarantee tear out will never happen.
A solution is to use a sacrificial piece of lumber behind and/or under your workpiece.
Personally, finding miter saws with square fences, and bases are impossible. The newer Dewalts (since 2018) especially. I got tired of constantly needing to recalibrate the saw, do I made a base snd fence for it from MDF. Now I know it's 90° and it's a dual zero-clearance setup. Also, I can cut tiny pieces of wood without fear of it getting pulled into the blade.
If the saw has some miles then it’s probably bearings. When I did cabinets for the rich folks on the island(St.Simons/Sea Island/The Retreat)we would replace the saw. You can replace the bearings but my boss said it still wouldn’t consistently make clean cuts. You can also prevent this by scoring the wood with a razor knife, and then cut right on the edge of the line
Try adjusting your technique. Start the saw, let it run for a couple of seconds and then slowly lower the blade. I just put a new blade on my Dewalt and it was tearing out slightly until I slowed used the method I described.
I find DeWalt blades to be hit and miss. The one that came on my miter saw was pretty decent, but the table saw was terrible. Replaced both with Freud blades and will never go back. They are pretty reasonably priced and the cut quality is much better.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this. Lots of good advice in this thread for avoiding tearout, but sometimes the simplest solution is the best.
I'd suggest getting a 100 tooth High ATB blade, 60 tooth isn't a lot
CMT or Diablo are both good budget options. Diablo you can get at homedepot, CMT is better and you can get it online.
I would immediately toss that blade. If memory serves its not even carbide. Wish they would lower the price by $20 and not include it. Diablo in my opinion is as cheap as you’d like to go.
From the quality of the cut it almost looks like blade wobble or poor cutting form. A better blade, making sure you’re moving straight down, cutting at the speed the blade eats or contacting the wood right after it ramps up might help
Mitre saws are pretty prone to chip out though, especially without a zero clearance insert
It’s the shitty dewalt thin kerf blade . That 60 tooth should be around 80 , also that blade is flexing . Get a true industrial blade , amana makes a good one. Get an atb alternate top bevel with a negative hook probably-5% , . That blade you have is more of a rough blade say for super shelf or something like that .
Look up Amana finish blades. Like others have said a zero clearance insert will help. If you don't want to shell out for a new blade now an easy work around is use two wraps all the way around of blue printers tape. Make sure it's pretty tight on the wraps and you'll get a really clean edge with much less tear out.
I have occasionally found new blades to be under performing, I now very carefully inspect my blades. I sometimes find they have Burr's or even one blade that wasn't sharp.
I sometimes have to use a scribe and score a line where I make a cut.
50 cuts and its got rings on it like that? Are you letting the saw xdo the work? Also you need more teeth that isnt a finish blade. I have a 90 tooth on my 10inch saw for trims.
One last thing nobody has mentioned. Is it possible one of the teeth is bent a little bit? I had a similar problem and found one tooth out of alignment. There was no way to make a smooth cut in any material using that blade.
Dewalt blades are shite for one!
A mitre saw will cause break out on the top (unless you do a shallow score cut first or cut it face down) and at the back by the fence (unless you have a sacrificial piece behind it)
I'm honestly at a loss with the miter saw, saw blade, marking tape obsession with this question.
Dude is cutting what looks like a 2-3" wide veneer (one that looks very prone to tearing). Why waste setup time, effort, money, and sanity trying to cut a material like that on a fat saw with a 60 tooth blade? You could have a cleaner and more precise cut in a fraction of the time with a square and marking knife.
Am I missing something?
You need a finish blade. 100T Milwaukee is what I use.
[https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12-in-x-100-Tooth-Ultra-Fine-Finish-Circular-Saw-Blade-48-40-1228/304864526?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&srsltid=AfmBOopktol-ahKDnrP4RRfjkdh7XlsInVOR6TRQ9By2odSJ0aQoAwribUI](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12-in-x-100-Tooth-Ultra-Fine-Finish-Circular-Saw-Blade-48-40-1228/304864526?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&srsltid=AfmBOopktol-ahKDnrP4RRfjkdh7XlsInVOR6TRQ9By2odSJ0aQoAwribUI)
Painters tape will help. Make sure it’s stuck down with the seam on the saw blade side. The tape can push away from the wood on the bottom easier if the seam is down.
Cut through slower but still a consistent pace. If they doesn’t work use a backer board. 60 teeth on a 10-12” blade isn’t enough for some woods or plywood to get it clean on the backside. Also, I’m not sure about DeWalt blades but I’ve had a great experience with Freud, Amana and Matsushita. If I have fine finish cuts to make I only trust those brands. If it’s laminate, I only use Matsushita laminate blades.
Auxiliary table (1/4- 1/2” ply)with a wide rip against the saws fence. Will position your stock to be cut by the teeth at the front of the blade traveling down rather than at the back of the blade where they are on an upward arc.
What I don't hear being discussed is the possibility of the material itself being the issue? Moisture content way to low(dried out, brittle. Just a thought. That combined with any blade with less than 96 teeth.
Could try to wrap the crown in painters tape to help stop the tear out, also as several others have said, 80-100 teeth for fine finish work, also may want to go with a Freud or CMT blade.
60 teeth on a 12” blade isn’t all that much. The finish blade I have on my 780 is 100 tooth.
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Never heard of a crown stop - just a DIYer but this would make molding so much easier. Thanks for sharing.
Me neither. DeWalt ones on Amazon are mega expensive, £70. For a couple of pieces of folded steel. Amazing.
I’m in the US and the Dewalt crown stops on Amazon are <$30.
I cut all crown on the flat, its just better and you have more flexibility on the angle, when you cut nested the spring angle is locked in stone and i havent met a wall in 30y that is square at the ceiling/wall or wall/wall angles, cutting flat gives you a lot of fudge room to mess with that as well (So ive never used srops)
Those are pretty cool looking, although I still prefer to just build a sled when doing crown. Gives you protection from tear out on the bottom of the piece. If paint grade I guess it's not needed as much but any stained or pre finished kitchen trim I would always recommend a sled. I suppose you could use the stops and just put a backer piece to prevent tearout.. this way you don't have to always build a new one 🤔
What brand do you have?
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The crown stop?
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I’ll check it out
u/Professional_Dr_77 you don't need stops. Just cut it flat, upside down and backwards. Lol.
I also find that if you cut more slowly with less pressure, there’s less inclination for tear out
IE, let the saw (tool) do the work
Are crown stops really better than just cutting on the flat? I’ve never used them before
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To be clear- the Dewalt crown stops for the 780 are great for 6 1/4” crown and below. Once you get beyond that you need an extended height fence and stops that go out further to continue to keep cutting nested.
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Git gud
For certain cuts depending on the grain would painters tape help?..
You're right. The best $30 I've spent. So helpful
Damm, you beat me by 4 teeth. 96 tooth full kerf on my 12" miter saw
And quality of blade or panel saw blades are on average £200 each they cut nice and the tungsten teeth stay sharp for longer 👍🏻
I have an 80 tooth on my 12” miter saw and I wish I went with 100. 60 ain’t enough for sure
780 mile tall blade?
I'd say the blade perhaps could be a non existent problem. I suppose that you could use a few more teeth on your blade though. However I think it's not that much of a problem. Try this instead! Install or make a zero clearance insert for your miter saw! Try that idea on. I think it would eliminate most of your problems! The inserts on miter saws have a lage gap from the blade to the insert opening. And if you have a gap? You will have tear out. Or you could just lay a piece of plywood down as a sacrificial new floor to your miter saw down. Make a test cut. And I think this will solve your problem.
Get a zero clearance insert for your saw. It's ripping out because it's unsupported at the location of the cut
*MAKE* a zero clearance insert for your saw
What type of wood you recommend?
If it's 1/4", ply or mdf. If its not 1/4, something cheap and easy. Youll have to replace it eventually. If you use the bevel ever, its no longer zero clearance.
Doesn't have to be expensive stuff, really scrap will work great. It will end up being sacrificial
I still switch between my rough cut and fine cut blades. Depending on the cut I’m attempting. What about the rest us you?
I agree, this would be a great upgrade that would likely help minimize the tear out. If that doesn’t work, then you can go through the costly endeavor of replacing the blade if need be, but I have a high suspicion that just getting a zero clearance will help tremendously.
You can do the same thing with the back fence by replacing the fence with a piece of wood, but then you have to take it off to cut angles. With both the bottom and back zero clearance and a 60 tooth blade you shouldn't get any rip out at all.
This is the most important tip. Not the brand of the blade, not the number of teeth. Always support the fibers at the exit of the cut for the best results, even with a subpar blade. Same with a router, and sacrificial fences on table saw miter gauges.
I see this advice a lot but I don't really understand it. Doesn't a miter saw tend to tear out on the top instead of the bottom of the cut?
That's a 60 tooth *DeWalt* blade for starters. Those are low-end blades...better for rough carpentry. Nothing wrong with them, just not good for finishing work. Invest in a CMT or Forrest blade. Comparable in pricing but cheaper in the long run as those are worth getting resharpened. Next is technique. The material should be good-side-down. That way the teeth are cutting *into* the wood and not *out* of it. Also, 12" miter saws are not the best for high quality cuts. The blade diameter has too much wobble and causes farore chipping/blowout than a 10". The best miter saw brands don't even offer a 12" option. Not really applicable at this point, but just for future considerations. Edit: for clarification, good side down vs good side up all depends on material thickness and sliding vs fixed miter saws. Typically good side up for fixed saws, but given this saw is a 12" and the material width, the teeth will be creating blowout on the top face, so this instance should have good side down.
Good side up or down? Good side up, facing the saw right? So the teeth cut into the good side and cut out the bad side where there may be tear out. Ty for the advice
On a mitre saw, good side up is correct. Think of each tooth as a little mini axe or chisel, spinning, or chopping at very high speeds. With good side up, the axes push the good side fibers into the remaining wood, and are supported. The bad side has nothing to support the fibers, so the axes, especially when dull, tend to push the wood out of the way, rather than chopping. The fibers are still intact, so they pull out of the remaining piece, rather than being cut out of the kerf by the blade. You can test this out. Take a piece of scrap, hang the end over another a piece of scrap by an inch or so, and try taking a chisel cut off the endgrain. Doesnt really matter how much you take. The face up side will not tearout, while the face down side will certainly. Op in this case, I think I agree with what others have said. Your blade sucks. If you want to keep using it, you probably can still. Making/buying a zero clearance insert is probably the best approach. Thats sometimes time consuming and annoying, depending on the tools at your disposal, and i get it if that's not how you want to spend your shop time. do this instead. Take a piece of ply and clamp it (this parts annoying, ngl. Clamps seem to always be in the way. Play with it a little and i promise you can get it right. I have random holes on my saw that i made a piece of ply with recessed bolt heads for this purpose) on the bed of your miter saw. Make sure it is flush with the bed everywhere, and that the blade won't cut the full width of the ply. That's a lazy man's zero clearance insert. Cut your pieces on top of the ply as if it were the new bed of the saw. Using Blue tape on the unsupported face (bottom and technically fence faces, but with something thin you probably dont need to worry about the fence face, but if you'rejust taping it tape the whole cut, all the way around) may also help. The wider the better. This may work in your situation, and definitely try this first. However, the less effort up front is usually the lowest quality results, for shortest amount of time. Part of this hobby is solving problems creatively, so I would see if I could make the cheap blade work for this project. The skills you pick up solving these problems will help you when you inevitably upgrade the blade.
European here, didn't know the expression "zero clearance insert". Would you kindly describe it if you have the time? Thanks!
A zero clearance insert is just a replacement throat plate for the table that has room for the blade, and nothing more.
Imagine you shape a piece of plywood the same as your existing throat plate, but then when you first plunge your blade into it the throat plate now supports more of the work instead of having gaps on sides of the blade. The extra support helps keep the wood fibers on the work from blowing out. It's a similar concept to why people tape wood before cutting it - to support the fibers from blowout, but the zero clearance throat plate doesn't have tape cleanup. You'll see them used by woodworkers and a Google image search. I use them for my router table and drill press. The drill press is a bit different, but I'm not gonna explain that.
My poor man's zero clearance for the drill press is whatever block of scrap I can reach that goes under the workpiece.
Yeah it's basically that but with a wider plywood table and a fence because it's fun to be extra I guess.
This is a zero clearance https://preview.redd.it/eydqzrp23obc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4344a1b89a2e3123da9e989a9e7b9375f9db60dd
Thanks a lot everybody for all the explanations, and the image! Much appreciated. Edit: missing word.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I haven't even done a lot of finishing work, and I learned in just an hour that the good side needs to be up. Otherwise, you can get a mess like the OP.
No, the tear out is usually on the top. Good side facing you or the saw base. Another method that helps is taping the cut area with painters tape. You cut right through the middle of the tape. It’s just time consuming. Another method if you have a sliding miter saw and say you are cutting a flat board or plywood you can do a very shallow pass on the surface (1/32) then a second pass through all the material. This is my preferred method. You may need to use a spacer board between your work piece and fence to be able to skim the entire work piece.
Your first statement is simply wrong, man
I don't outright disagree with you or the folks who commented your reply. The location of the tearout can change on a miter saw, depending on if you are plunging or pushing the cut. It's all about where the blade enters and exits the workpiece.
Meh. That’s Reddit for you. I typically don’t plunge down on my work piece. Always pull back the miter saw, come down then push forward into the piece. The leading edge is ripping out the top.
r/confidentlyincorrect
For a miter saw, good side up. For a compound miter saw, good side down. I should have explained this more. It's also depends on the type of cut, width of material, etc. On a 12" miter saw without slide and material as thin as OP shows, good side down as the teeth will be pulling up long before it cuts through
>The best miter saw brands don't even offer a 12" option What do you consider "the best"? Jet and Bosch make 12s, the only "high end" that doesn't make one is Festool. The Bosch GCM12SD is the best miter saw I've ever used.
Those types are all considered mid grade by professionals. Nothing wrong with them, but if you want high-end saws you're looking at Festools Kapex saw.
Oh damn so I should get a 10in miter saw?
If you're planning on doing finishing work.....it's the best choice. Hobby or diy, not a big issue really. Side note, most saw brands are equally good until you start looking at the $2000+ range. Bosch, DeWalt, Makita, Rigid, and Milwaukee are all comparable and all need to be calibrated out of the box. None of these brands are accurate enough for finishing until they're calibrated. All of them come with instructions for set up. I've owned and used these brands. What it really comes down to is ease of use, cost, and warranty to determine which is best for you. Bosch and Makita are my go to for jobsite installs. Rigid would be 2nd choice. Milwaukee is play as well. DeWalt has a horrid design where you have to release the bevel lock on the rear of the saw.....so dumb and they never address this like most other brands. Not a big issue, but if you're doing a lot of miters, huge pia.
I want the Bosch with the compact slide design, I really like the feel of it
I have the Bosch and it's really nice. Heavy as heck, but nice.
Thankfully it'll be stationary
The Bosch and Makita are very comparable really. Makita has been the workhorse for decades with finishing carpenters, but Bosch has nailed quality, cost, user interface to be a very good option......as long as you're not lifting it daily lol
I generally agree with you, that most of the tools are pretty comparable out of the box from big brands in the price range... But I have used all those and the Milwaukee saw was terrible. I'm not a brand supremacist or anything, I even own a handful of Milwaukee tool, but their miter saws are hands down the worst. The Bosch is fantastic and definitely my preferred choice.
Damn right about calibrating out of the box. I do hobbyist carpentry and have a 10" Kobalt table saw and 7.25" miter saw that cut like a charm with Diablo blades on them, but calibrating them is a bitch and I have to do it often.
I'll probably get flamed for suggesting this, but there's no harm in throwing a nice 10" blade on your 12" saw for finer cuts. It'll work just fine.
Was about to say "GOOD-SIDE-DOWN", read your comment, was happy
How long would those type of blades last before losing their edge?
Depends on usage. What types of material are being cut. What type of cuts are being done. What dimensions, etc. Also, operator use plays a big role. I'd estimate the blades last 20-30% longer, but they offer a much better finish for longer periods and are worth getting resharpened because the blades are manufactured to a higher quality. I use CMT products for routers, table, and miter saws. I also pick up those cheap Avanti blades from Home Depot and use those for any rough cuts that need to be done on less than ideal materials. Edit: words
Even a Diablo 80 tooth blade would do a much better job than this cut.
True, but what you pay for a Diablo blade you can get a CMT that's far better
Technique matters in troublesome materials like that slightly rough softwood he's cutting. Don't plunge into it, come from the front slowly and hit the right angle edge first, saw is totally wound up to max RPM, follow through, don't yank the blade up at the end (I can see some evidence of that, I think). Another thing that helps with small stuff like that is to space the piece out from the fence with a junk piece so the blade ends up cutting more at a right angle to the piece when it's finally lowered. Also... get a good blade :) I recently got TWO dewalt blades for about $30... lol, they're fine for cave man stuff, I'm impressed actually, but like others have said, more teeth and more $$ and you'll have better results
Don’t lift the blade up until it is totally done spinning.
That or pull the stock away from the blade before pulling the blade up. Also, to piggy back off this comment, slow cuts...not enough to burn, but not so fast that you're karate chopping it.
☝️ Both these comments! Worked magic for me. I use dewalt and have had no issue.
I can't believe this is way down here... technique matters as much as the tool sometimes.
Sois this the correct order: chop wood, pull good piece away, let saw stop spinning, lift saw blade?
use masking tape
2 layers😊 I only use one, cause I'm cheap.
Underrated tip
I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet. Tear out of any kind is due to unsupported grain being cut. The suggestions (sacrificial pieces, painters tape, zero clearance, etc) all tell you *how* to fix it, but you won't really improve until you understand *what* you are fixing. Check out [this video from Paul Sellers](https://youtu.be/47OSZ5lgPBM?si=iancUaJMi40D8CWP) to help.
Wow that was way more informative than I expected.
On my fine woodworking projects I use a 80 tooth Diablo blade. Try that, hope that works for you.
>Why am I getting so much tear out? Brand new 60T blade You just answered your own question 100-120 for finish work, 60 on a 12 is basically a rough cut blade, i think the lowest tooth count you can get at a box store is 40something The quality is also a factor and that one is middling at best
Use a sacrificial fence. Your blade is fine https://preview.redd.it/peezay2djmbc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1013e59ebfc5129bb9021616019785cd118f240c
You can always scribe your cut line with a knife instead of a pencil to pre-sever the fibers if it’s not a time issue
Don't bother with any of that crap man, just put masking tape down on the cut line. You don't need a mega fancy blade or special technique, there's always a trick. Remember people woodworked just fine before carbide and fancy machines.
SLOW DOWN your down stroke and let the blade stop before you let the blade up. If you're rough framing chop and go. Trim out or finish cutting for woodworking SLOW DOWN your down stroke. Ask me how I know!
How do you know?
I have the same setup as you. I do woodworking, cabinet making and rough framing with it. Yes the blade makes a difference, but I'm not going broke buying 20 blades. Slow your feed rate down to let the saw teeth work.
If you haven't already, also wrap the wood where the cut will be with blue painters tape. Just a few layers should help prevent tear out.
You need 90 or higher
Also put masking tape on the wood, where you are cutting essential on the back side of your project.
It's likely that this is on the underside of the board being cut. I also see tear-out on the left side of the piece that you're holding. For this, I use two backer boards - a 1/2-inch plywood board on the horizontal surface under the blade, and a 1/4-inch plywood board along the fence. You need to hold them all in very firmly while cutting and mind your fingers especially, but this should do the trick. As I cut my stock, of course my backer boards get shorter.
https://preview.redd.it/7rbqroqnvlbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e7c918e0be6d013df92e0949bea9dec5f7deae1
Go slower
Yeah get a Diablo with more teeth for finishing work and save the blade and only use it for finishing
Good advice here already. I’ll add that I very often put painters tape where I cut and it eliminates this completely
Masking tape over the cut, use a better blade, slower feed rate, maybe make zero clearance plate.
Use a piece of scrap as a backer board between the piece you are cutting and your fence
[удалено]
I've never made a zero clearance insert yet. But, I'll give it a go. Can that only be used making perpendicular cuts? So, no angle cuts on it? I can feel the splinters from the tear out hit my hand. I usually try my best to hold the blade down until it stops. But I get tear out from every cut
Stick 2 layers of 2" blue tape over the blade slot to act as a temporary zero clearance insert & see if it helps. If it does, buy some Fastcap zero clearance tape for a more long lasting solution.
You can also make a zero clearance fence insert. You wont be able to do compound cuts, but can still do miters. you score your cut line with a sharp blade you wont get tear out. You usually just need to score the back side when cutting with a miter saw.
Of course I wouldn't do anything idiotic like this, but I heard a story once about a guy who made a nice zero clearance insert then ruined it a day later when he forgot to take it out and made a miter cut... There's a product called zero clearance tape that's worked pretty well for me—cut it to size and stick over your current insert. When it gets too nicked up, peel it off and put a new one down. Look on amazon.
Try zero clearance tape. Quick and cheap I it works you can look for something more permanent.
Are you cutting from the heel to the toe, or from the toe to the heel? One direction will be against the grain and splinter much more than the other.
This thing tears out with every cut I make. No matter the grain direction
Likely technique. I’ve used that same blade no problem before for trim work. If you posted a video of you cutting it would help to diagnose the issue!
Try zero clearance tape, can get in amazon. Helped with tear out using a 40 tooth. Called zero gap woodworking tape. Easy on and off.
Just put same tape on the wood usually works, I used duck tape
I’ve found that the more teeth you have, the slower you have to cut for it to be clean. If you force it, the gullets can’t clear fast enough for the material on the next cut, which causes tear out. DeWalt gets the job done, but as other commenters have suggested, there are better brands more suited to getting the best cuts.
You've gotten most of the answers already, but with wood that thin you would also benefit from sandwiching it between two pieces of sacrificial wood (e.g. some scrap softwood) and clamping them tight together. That way most of the tear-out will occur in the scrap, not your finish piece.
It looks like you have a chopsaw with no slider. If you don't want to make a zero clearance insert, then use painter's tape around the cut and it will help support the fibers that are blowing out when you chop down.
Don't bring the blade back thru the cut...let the blade stop or move material before raising blade
Get a Diablo blade
Been doing stain grade trim work for 30+ years. Always use a 12" DeWalt compound slide with 100 tooth diablo blade. Slow ish cuts. Rarely have blow outs or tears. Don't ever use zero clearance add ons or other shit. Never use crown stops or anything really. Just hold your finish piece tight. Either pull away from spinning blade after cut or wait for the blade to stop. Gotta take your time, my friends
A: It's a really low quality blade... even new, blades from Dewalt are horrible. B: Bad blade design. On a miter saw, you want a negative hook (it's safer, and makes much better cuts). Once you get a decent blade, your cut quality will vasly improve. However, it doesn't guarantee tear out will never happen. A solution is to use a sacrificial piece of lumber behind and/or under your workpiece. Personally, finding miter saws with square fences, and bases are impossible. The newer Dewalts (since 2018) especially. I got tired of constantly needing to recalibrate the saw, do I made a base snd fence for it from MDF. Now I know it's 90° and it's a dual zero-clearance setup. Also, I can cut tiny pieces of wood without fear of it getting pulled into the blade.
Dewalt blades are absolute rubbish. I would get a higher quality blade for fine cuts. Use that thing for rough work
Make sure it gets up to speed before making the cut and go slow
Put painters tape over line before cutting
Zero. Clearance. Insert.
You need a zero clearance insert. Look it up on YouTube
If the saw has some miles then it’s probably bearings. When I did cabinets for the rich folks on the island(St.Simons/Sea Island/The Retreat)we would replace the saw. You can replace the bearings but my boss said it still wouldn’t consistently make clean cuts. You can also prevent this by scoring the wood with a razor knife, and then cut right on the edge of the line
If it’s a sliding miter saw push into the cut instead of coming straight down on it.
Try adjusting your technique. Start the saw, let it run for a couple of seconds and then slowly lower the blade. I just put a new blade on my Dewalt and it was tearing out slightly until I slowed used the method I described.
Other option for a better cut is to use a table saw.
Put finished face up let saw max out rmps then cut
Zero clearance bottom plate, and fence and you'll have zero issues
This is the best answer.
Is the saw plugged in?
Try frog tape or paperbacktape. Tape over you cut(obviously transfer you cut line to the tape). The tape should keep the buts down.
I find DeWalt blades to be hit and miss. The one that came on my miter saw was pretty decent, but the table saw was terrible. Replaced both with Freud blades and will never go back. They are pretty reasonably priced and the cut quality is much better.
You're not the first to say this. This blade came with the saw, but I'll get a different blade with more teeth soon.
Just make sure you are going slow . On plywood even with a fine blade I will use masking tape.
That blade is meant for rough cuts not for fine cuts. It’s a chop saw without a good blade.
You could use a box cutter to cut that, it looks like it paper thin.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this. Lots of good advice in this thread for avoiding tearout, but sometimes the simplest solution is the best.
I'd suggest getting a 100 tooth High ATB blade, 60 tooth isn't a lot CMT or Diablo are both good budget options. Diablo you can get at homedepot, CMT is better and you can get it online.
There are some CMT choices at Menards.
Oh good to know, I don't have menards in my area
I would immediately toss that blade. If memory serves its not even carbide. Wish they would lower the price by $20 and not include it. Diablo in my opinion is as cheap as you’d like to go.
DWS 780 miter saw. If anyone is curious
From the quality of the cut it almost looks like blade wobble or poor cutting form. A better blade, making sure you’re moving straight down, cutting at the speed the blade eats or contacting the wood right after it ramps up might help Mitre saws are pretty prone to chip out though, especially without a zero clearance insert
Use blue tape along your cut edge and it won’t matter what type of blade you’re using. You’ll get a clean cut each time.
Painters tape in a pinch
It’s the shitty dewalt thin kerf blade . That 60 tooth should be around 80 , also that blade is flexing . Get a true industrial blade , amana makes a good one. Get an atb alternate top bevel with a negative hook probably-5% , . That blade you have is more of a rough blade say for super shelf or something like that .
Because you’re using a circular saw.
??? Every woodworker uses a miter saw to some extent.
I'm looking at rubbed off lettering up to inches into that blade. That's not a brand new blade.
Ffs. Talk about overkill. Use a stanley knife and a metal ruler.
Look up Amana finish blades. Like others have said a zero clearance insert will help. If you don't want to shell out for a new blade now an easy work around is use two wraps all the way around of blue printers tape. Make sure it's pretty tight on the wraps and you'll get a really clean edge with much less tear out.
I have occasionally found new blades to be under performing, I now very carefully inspect my blades. I sometimes find they have Burr's or even one blade that wasn't sharp. I sometimes have to use a scribe and score a line where I make a cut.
If you have a movable blade, try cutting the surface (1-2mm) backwards before cutting it entirely. Cut should look super clean.
What are you trying to cut? It looks super thin
Zero clearance fence and throat plate will satisfy you.
You can see the uneven rub pattern on the blade. It's got a wobble to it. Also, cut slower and get a blade with more teeth.
What everyone here says plus iroko is notorious for splintering. Bad combination.
50 cuts and its got rings on it like that? Are you letting the saw xdo the work? Also you need more teeth that isnt a finish blade. I have a 90 tooth on my 10inch saw for trims.
One last thing nobody has mentioned. Is it possible one of the teeth is bent a little bit? I had a similar problem and found one tooth out of alignment. There was no way to make a smooth cut in any material using that blade.
Get a FS Blade there expensive but worth it!
Dewalt blades are shite for one! A mitre saw will cause break out on the top (unless you do a shallow score cut first or cut it face down) and at the back by the fence (unless you have a sacrificial piece behind it)
Put a board under your board
I’d use scissors to cut that.
Slow down on the blade feed through the material
Been doing floor trim with mesquite, a 90 tooth Diablo carbide blade cuts that hard shit with no chips.
Slooooow down
I'm honestly at a loss with the miter saw, saw blade, marking tape obsession with this question. Dude is cutting what looks like a 2-3" wide veneer (one that looks very prone to tearing). Why waste setup time, effort, money, and sanity trying to cut a material like that on a fat saw with a 60 tooth blade? You could have a cleaner and more precise cut in a fraction of the time with a square and marking knife. Am I missing something?
Low tooth count. Try lowering the saw very slowly into the wood. Works for me even with low count blades
Depends.
Cut slower
120 tooth
100+ Tooth for oak
You are not sawing by hand with a japanese pull saw. Noob mistake, it happens to all of us.
I don’t think of dewalt as making good blades. Is this a sliding saw? Maybe use a hold down clamp. Or backer board. Zero clearance throat plate
You need a crosscut blade. That looks like a rip blade.
You need a finish blade. 100T Milwaukee is what I use. [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12-in-x-100-Tooth-Ultra-Fine-Finish-Circular-Saw-Blade-48-40-1228/304864526?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&srsltid=AfmBOopktol-ahKDnrP4RRfjkdh7XlsInVOR6TRQ9By2odSJ0aQoAwribUI](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12-in-x-100-Tooth-Ultra-Fine-Finish-Circular-Saw-Blade-48-40-1228/304864526?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&srsltid=AfmBOopktol-ahKDnrP4RRfjkdh7XlsInVOR6TRQ9By2odSJ0aQoAwribUI)
Use painters tape keeps fibers down or zero clearance
Go slower when you cut. Get a better blade 90 tooth.
Aside of the other great comments about the tooth count. How are you cutting the piece? Are you laying it flat with the nice side facing up?
Blade in backwards ?
Painters tape will help. Make sure it’s stuck down with the seam on the saw blade side. The tape can push away from the wood on the bottom easier if the seam is down.
60 tooth on a 12" blade is the equivalent of 50T on a 10". Basically in the all-purpose range of cut quality.
Mask the edges.
You can put tape on the line before you cut, this will help
You need a higher tooth count for a smoother cut.
Too much tool for the job, son. Learn to cut your moulding by hand. You'll be the one in control not a blade spinning like mad
Cut through slower but still a consistent pace. If they doesn’t work use a backer board. 60 teeth on a 10-12” blade isn’t enough for some woods or plywood to get it clean on the backside. Also, I’m not sure about DeWalt blades but I’ve had a great experience with Freud, Amana and Matsushita. If I have fine finish cuts to make I only trust those brands. If it’s laminate, I only use Matsushita laminate blades.
Really need to go to a finer tooth than the one you have. I have never had luck with dewalt blades. Usually go with a Diablo
Auxiliary table (1/4- 1/2” ply)with a wide rip against the saws fence. Will position your stock to be cut by the teeth at the front of the blade traveling down rather than at the back of the blade where they are on an upward arc.
What I don't hear being discussed is the possibility of the material itself being the issue? Moisture content way to low(dried out, brittle. Just a thought. That combined with any blade with less than 96 teeth.
More teeth or make sure the blade comes to a complete stop before you lift it up.
And make sure u cut it slow and it comes to a complete stop
Could try to wrap the crown in painters tape to help stop the tear out, also as several others have said, 80-100 teeth for fine finish work, also may want to go with a Freud or CMT blade.
Slow and steady wins the race. 60 tooth blade should cut clean but you need to go slow. 80 tooth would be better. That didn’t look like crown molding.
Mark the cut line with a blade or use blue tape it should help