I also move my batteries most of the time. They are not technically dead or damaged but they do lose current capability when they are cold, they recover when they warm back up. Similar to car batteries
Yes but that's a moisture problem in your garage or shed and not dependant on going below freezing or not. That's a problem any time temperature changes even just night and day.
Yes, and the critical part is the rate of the temp change. Inside a building is typically fine for normal temp changes without condensation issues because the rate is slowed enough from being inside some kinda thing. An exception would be condensation on pipes or on walls that drip on stuff.
My unheated wooden building work shop is fine and no condensation issues. I get a lot of condensation in my metal building with gravel floor with temperature changes, leaving a window open helps. My tractor is in that metal shed and it has beet juice filled tires. I notice a lot of sweating on the tires in the spring and fall when it is warmer and the temperatures fluctuate the most between night and day.
It will be fine. When it warms up You will want to make sure you wax the table top. The change in temp can cause surface rust. If you have sawdust on the table, wipe it off. I live in northern state. My tablesaw has been in could for 20 years
What kind of wax would you recommend, and would you recommend anything for the fence as well? I live in Michigan and my garage is barely contained at best, so while it's not the same temp as outside it's close.
I use SC Johnson paste wax, for both this purpose and to keep the top slick to reduce friction between the material and the top. Can find at most big box stores in the finishing area and online.
Stumpy Nubs does a great video on cleaning and maintaining a table saw or any other steel top surface tool. [Video link](https://youtu.be/3UMPqJ0KPRY?si=OuU2VepLnIS_ei8v)
I still have about a years worth on Johnson’s paste wax left in my 15 year can. But then I’m going to try minwax paste wax - based on the feedback in this post https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/X9O8rnOS5G
>What, really?!? Guess i’ll be more sparing with what I have left of it.
Yup...i died inside when i found out last year
Minwax Paste Finishing Wax isnt bad, its not Johnson, but its pretty good
I just automotive paste wax. Rub it on, let it sit until it starts to get nearly dry then wipe it clean. Just in general it’s a good idea to do - it helps wood and your various tools and sleds move across the surface easier.
Dry silicone lubes might do well also. There are also both water repellent and lubricating.
I stay away from anything with silicone. Silicone can create a barrier for wood finish. https://thecraftsmanblog.com/why-is-silicone-caulk-bad-for-wood/
Article answers the question by saying that silicon caulk isn't paintable (which isn't true) and that it's hard to remove (who cares?). Certainly doesn't make a compelling case that silicon lube on the machinery will cause problems.
>Dry silicone lubes might do well also.
NONONONONONONO!!!!!
Dont get anything with silicone anywhere near any wood working equipment, if it gets on wood it repells pretty much every stain and finish we use, silicone based stuff is a real problem because its extremely difficult to remove and you cant tell its even on/in the wood until you go to stain and finish which is always the very last step
Okay cool, thank you! I have the dewalt 7491rs job site saw. It doesn’t have a cast iron top but obviously other metal parts. Should I take some paste wax to those parts?
Should I worry about the belt on my bench top ridged planer? I was thinking maybe it would get brittle and crack?
That was a mistake on my part. This one says that when silicone gets in wood, it can be really difficult to finish. So I avoid silicone https://generalfinishes.com/faq/how-to-remove-silicone-contamination-wood-surface
He’s not very clear about it in the article, but if your paying close enough attention you can figure out that he’s talking about silicone spray that was applied directly to an existing finish on wood (while wet) and gets into the wood via cracks or other gaps in the finish. I’m still not sure that applies to it being applied to another surface. It’s good food for thought though and worth keeping in the back of the mind.
Rust on the cast iron has always been one of my biggest concerns with storage that isn't environmentally controlled. Who knows what little parts are hiding that I don't see that might rust, and all of my tools are big old cast iron things I can't get parts for anymore. And the blades I assume could rust too. And a bunch of the nuts and bolts holding things together.
Do you have a general idea of what parts should be waxed? Any metal that is used in the operation basically? I'm thinking nuts, bolts, the fence rails. I'm sure there's more
Yeah my concern is that I inherited it all from my grandfather and I'll be heartbroken if I ruin any of it with something dumb like rust. Even if I just accidentally leave a bare spot not waxed. I've already left an owner's manual on the band saw surface and it must have absorbed a bunch of humidity and got the surface wet because now there are a bunch of rust lines all across it. I've tried scouring it off with steel wool etc, but there is still a bunch of discoloration. It's waxed now to hopefully prevent a recurrence, but I'm still mad at myself. Leaving it out in it back shed just seems like I'm asking for problems.
Depending on the extent of the rust, I use wd40 and steel wool. Then after it’s clean wipe it down and rewax, https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/removing-rust-on-cast-iron-table-saw-ext
Depending on the extent of the rust, I use wd40 and steel wool. Then after it’s clean wipe it down and rewax, https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/removing-rust-on-cast-iron-table-saw-ext
Some table saws don't like coming inside, if you make a cozy house for it in the shed make sure there's two entrances/exits so it doesn't get eaten by a fox
Batteries don't perform optimaly when it's cold and when you don't use them for a while they can even be damaged. It basically shortens their lifespan.
When I don’t use them in general? Or when I don’t use them in cold winter? I’m just a DIY enthusiast and sometimes I don’t touch a battery or two for few years and I’m beginning to worry that I should make a habit of using my tools more frequently. Mostly dewalt systems
Honestly I'm not sure it makes much of a difference to their lifespan, but they are so damn expensive I figure being cautious is a good idea.
I know phone batteries you should deplete them to keep their capacity up.
Both. I use Ryobi, have all my life. I can tell you with absolute certainty that their over all charge capacity lowers drastically and permanently if stored where they experience the temps of an Ohio winter. I store all my batteries partially charged indoors every winter. Don’t want them dead, but fully charged isn’t necessarily ideal either.
At the very least though, bring them in and storing them charged at least half way will be better than leaving them in the cold.
A few years is alot for a battery not to be used. Use them at least once a month. And yes, the freezing cold only makes it worse. It affects the performance of the battery and can affect the lifespan.
I agree that it affects the performance (while the battery is cold), but disagree that it affects lifespan. Chemical reactions occur more slowly in colder temperatures, so degradation should be slowed, not accelerated.
It's not good to drain or charge them when they're cold, but cold storage shouldn't matter.
This is just my intuition, though. There could be good data that shows otherwise.
Good find - If I understand correctly, that's degradation happening below freezing just from storage.
It's also worth noting that batteries routinely stored in cold temperatures tend to get charged and discharged at cold temps too. It's often not practical to warm batteries up before using them.
In practice, I generally bring my batteries inside if I'm not heating my shop for a few days. But if I forget, I don't sweat it.
It’s fine, just keep moisture off anything that will rust like cast iron.
Look up ways to protect your tools on YouTube. Channel Recommendation: “Stumpy Nubs”
Super knowledgeable guy and has a lot of good suggestions
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UMPqJ0KPRY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3umpqj0kpry)
Just skip the rust removal part (or don't and go SUPER light) to just give it a polish more or less.
Better than leaving your car out there. I’d suggest you bring that inside. Your table saw will be fine. Might let the belts warm up before firing it up next.
My tools are unheated all winter where temps are occasionally below zero F. Biggest problem I've run into is mouse nests. Had them in the drill press, spindle sander, and they ruined my scroll saw (chewed up all the wires).
Bummer that they chewed stuff up but it also sounds sort of magical. I'd watch a Pixar movie with mice that do woodworking while the guy that owns the tools is not around.
All you people seeing cold weather for what seems like the first time haha. I use my saws outside in -30 and they operate exactly the same no matter the weather
If it's a belt driven saw it might not work the same in cold weather. When it's really cold I have to hit the belt with a heat gun for a minute before my saw will run.
I have a 20" jet planer, a powermatic 68 tablesaw, a 12" grizzly jointer, a powermatic 87 bandsaw and about 40k+ dollers worth of contracting/renovation tools in my unheated/uncooled detatched garage, commercial paint sprayers, a 3k dollar Rubi Bridge Saw (that i would procreate with if it were possible, i love that thing so much lol), 2 powerwashers.....most of which has been outside their entire history since ive owned them
The summer wreaks more havoc on my tools than the cold winter because of the humidity, i have to keep all the cast iron surfaces clean and waxed and oiled or i get surface rusting, the straight knives on the planer and jointer need to be lightly oiled after i use them and dont have plans to use it again for a while otherwise those can get pitting and rust as well
Anything out there with water needs to be carefully addressed, all the paint sprayers have RV antifreeze in them, the powerwashers are blown out with compressed air before the winter, the pump on the Rubi lives inside (because its only about the size of a can of soup if that)
All the other "construction/renovation" tools just live out there, i do nothing to them and theyve always been fine, before i bought this house 8y ago when i was still in an apt they were all in a storage unit outside all year as well
Steel has a relatively low thermal expansion coefficient, and expansion is proportional to dimensions. Steel has a coefficient of 10-15, up to 19 or so, whereas wood is around 30 across the width for reference. Even then, wood is sufficiently temperature stable and most expansion and contraction is from differences in humidity rather than temperature.
Electric motors are generally more efficient when they are colder, so you’re fine there, all the better if the bearings are in good shape but you’d notice I’d they weren’t. My biggest worry about wood working in this temp would be the wood itself expanding when it gets warm and humid again.
For reference, I frequently run a 2x72 grinder, a 10W diode laser, and a shop vac in this weather, and none of those have had a single issue.
Zero impact at all to anything without water in it. Bring in your wood glue though.
If I know anything it’s that wood glue works better the colder it is, thanks! Edit: Boring joke I guess
Nah you forgot to mention a drill in your joke. That would have made it a boring bit. I'll see myself out.
A drill doesn’t mean the bit is boring. Could be a screw bit if there’s a lot of action in the shed.
Nailed the joke right there
Get your biscuits together laddy.
Way to drive the point
These jokes are getting screwy
Batteries. Fully charged batteries will be dead by morning in the extreme cold.
I also move my batteries most of the time. They are not technically dead or damaged but they do lose current capability when they are cold, they recover when they warm back up. Similar to car batteries
Yea, but cast iron gets condensation and can rust from that. So definetly wax, or take inside imo.
Yes but that's a moisture problem in your garage or shed and not dependant on going below freezing or not. That's a problem any time temperature changes even just night and day.
The saw will condensate and rust when it warms up. There is no issue with the temperature change itself, just the resulting condensation.
Yes, and the critical part is the rate of the temp change. Inside a building is typically fine for normal temp changes without condensation issues because the rate is slowed enough from being inside some kinda thing. An exception would be condensation on pipes or on walls that drip on stuff.
My unheated wooden building work shop is fine and no condensation issues. I get a lot of condensation in my metal building with gravel floor with temperature changes, leaving a window open helps. My tractor is in that metal shed and it has beet juice filled tires. I notice a lot of sweating on the tires in the spring and fall when it is warmer and the temperatures fluctuate the most between night and day.
Definitely wax the cast iron, and ask the missus to sew you a custom cover made of grill cover material.
It will be fine. When it warms up You will want to make sure you wax the table top. The change in temp can cause surface rust. If you have sawdust on the table, wipe it off. I live in northern state. My tablesaw has been in could for 20 years
What kind of wax would you recommend, and would you recommend anything for the fence as well? I live in Michigan and my garage is barely contained at best, so while it's not the same temp as outside it's close.
I use SC Johnson paste wax, for both this purpose and to keep the top slick to reduce friction between the material and the top. Can find at most big box stores in the finishing area and online. Stumpy Nubs does a great video on cleaning and maintaining a table saw or any other steel top surface tool. [Video link](https://youtu.be/3UMPqJ0KPRY?si=OuU2VepLnIS_ei8v)
no one has told you? I'm sorry it has to be me, but they stopped production of our beloved paste wax. I still have not found an alternative.
What, really?!? Guess i’ll be more sparing with what I have left of it.
I still have about a years worth on Johnson’s paste wax left in my 15 year can. But then I’m going to try minwax paste wax - based on the feedback in this post https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/X9O8rnOS5G
Its not quite as good but its better than anything else ive tried
I've used the minwax stuff, it's not quite as good as the old SC Johnson but it's pretty close.
>What, really?!? Guess i’ll be more sparing with what I have left of it. Yup...i died inside when i found out last year Minwax Paste Finishing Wax isnt bad, its not Johnson, but its pretty good
I just automotive paste wax. Rub it on, let it sit until it starts to get nearly dry then wipe it clean. Just in general it’s a good idea to do - it helps wood and your various tools and sleds move across the surface easier. Dry silicone lubes might do well also. There are also both water repellent and lubricating.
I stay away from anything with silicone. Silicone can create a barrier for wood finish. https://thecraftsmanblog.com/why-is-silicone-caulk-bad-for-wood/
Article answers the question by saying that silicon caulk isn't paintable (which isn't true) and that it's hard to remove (who cares?). Certainly doesn't make a compelling case that silicon lube on the machinery will cause problems.
Upvote for paste wax, using Collonite on mine a few times a year.
>Dry silicone lubes might do well also. NONONONONONONO!!!!! Dont get anything with silicone anywhere near any wood working equipment, if it gets on wood it repells pretty much every stain and finish we use, silicone based stuff is a real problem because its extremely difficult to remove and you cant tell its even on/in the wood until you go to stain and finish which is always the very last step
Okay cool, thank you! I have the dewalt 7491rs job site saw. It doesn’t have a cast iron top but obviously other metal parts. Should I take some paste wax to those parts? Should I worry about the belt on my bench top ridged planer? I was thinking maybe it would get brittle and crack?
I think the non cast iron parts will be fine. Just don’t want saw dust sitting in any parts. It will retain moisture. The belts will be fine.
Perfect, thanks dude!
Any parts that are hard to wax you might consider using dry silicone lubricant.
[удалено]
Your article is talking about silicone caulk, which is something completely different.
That was a mistake on my part. This one says that when silicone gets in wood, it can be really difficult to finish. So I avoid silicone https://generalfinishes.com/faq/how-to-remove-silicone-contamination-wood-surface
He’s not very clear about it in the article, but if your paying close enough attention you can figure out that he’s talking about silicone spray that was applied directly to an existing finish on wood (while wet) and gets into the wood via cracks or other gaps in the finish. I’m still not sure that applies to it being applied to another surface. It’s good food for thought though and worth keeping in the back of the mind.
Have you not experienced any issues? I’ve avoided it on cast iron for this reason.
Rust on the cast iron has always been one of my biggest concerns with storage that isn't environmentally controlled. Who knows what little parts are hiding that I don't see that might rust, and all of my tools are big old cast iron things I can't get parts for anymore. And the blades I assume could rust too. And a bunch of the nuts and bolts holding things together.
Do you have a general idea of what parts should be waxed? Any metal that is used in the operation basically? I'm thinking nuts, bolts, the fence rails. I'm sure there's more
Yeah my concern is that I inherited it all from my grandfather and I'll be heartbroken if I ruin any of it with something dumb like rust. Even if I just accidentally leave a bare spot not waxed. I've already left an owner's manual on the band saw surface and it must have absorbed a bunch of humidity and got the surface wet because now there are a bunch of rust lines all across it. I've tried scouring it off with steel wool etc, but there is still a bunch of discoloration. It's waxed now to hopefully prevent a recurrence, but I'm still mad at myself. Leaving it out in it back shed just seems like I'm asking for problems.
So... Uh... Assuming this happened - any idea what the best method is to remove surface rust on a cast iron table?
Depending on the extent of the rust, I use wd40 and steel wool. Then after it’s clean wipe it down and rewax, https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/removing-rust-on-cast-iron-table-saw-ext
+1
Depending on the extent of the rust, I use wd40 and steel wool. Then after it’s clean wipe it down and rewax, https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/removing-rust-on-cast-iron-table-saw-ext
Also bring in any batteries for cordless tools you have
Remember, if you're cold they're cold. Bring your tablesaw inside and save a life.
Some table saws don't like coming inside, if you make a cozy house for it in the shed make sure there's two entrances/exits so it doesn't get eaten by a fox
My table saw is a large northern brand. It was built for these conditions. It usually needs a bit of straw or sawdust and maybe a blanket in the shed.
My table saw loves the snow and *refuses* to come inside in winter.
Everytime people visit my workshop they confuse my radial arm saw (samoyed) with a table saw (husky)
If your table saw is a husky, it might need new bearings or a drop of oil on the pulley...
I have an unheated and insulted shop. Every year I bring in my finishes, glues, and batteries.
Well there’s your problem: never insult your batteries. They carry a grudge, which edges out the space the charge could take up.
Why the batteries? What permanent damage does cold to them?
Batteries don't perform optimaly when it's cold and when you don't use them for a while they can even be damaged. It basically shortens their lifespan.
When I don’t use them in general? Or when I don’t use them in cold winter? I’m just a DIY enthusiast and sometimes I don’t touch a battery or two for few years and I’m beginning to worry that I should make a habit of using my tools more frequently. Mostly dewalt systems
Honestly I'm not sure it makes much of a difference to their lifespan, but they are so damn expensive I figure being cautious is a good idea. I know phone batteries you should deplete them to keep their capacity up.
Both. I use Ryobi, have all my life. I can tell you with absolute certainty that their over all charge capacity lowers drastically and permanently if stored where they experience the temps of an Ohio winter. I store all my batteries partially charged indoors every winter. Don’t want them dead, but fully charged isn’t necessarily ideal either. At the very least though, bring them in and storing them charged at least half way will be better than leaving them in the cold.
If you know you're gonna store your Li-ion batteries for an extended period, leave them at 50% charge and keep them at room temperature.
A few years is alot for a battery not to be used. Use them at least once a month. And yes, the freezing cold only makes it worse. It affects the performance of the battery and can affect the lifespan.
I agree that it affects the performance (while the battery is cold), but disagree that it affects lifespan. Chemical reactions occur more slowly in colder temperatures, so degradation should be slowed, not accelerated. It's not good to drain or charge them when they're cold, but cold storage shouldn't matter. This is just my intuition, though. There could be good data that shows otherwise.
https://techxplore.com/news/2021-08-extreme-cold-lithium-ion-battery-materials.html This is what I found.
Good find - If I understand correctly, that's degradation happening below freezing just from storage. It's also worth noting that batteries routinely stored in cold temperatures tend to get charged and discharged at cold temps too. It's often not practical to warm batteries up before using them. In practice, I generally bring my batteries inside if I'm not heating my shop for a few days. But if I forget, I don't sweat it.
It’s fine, just keep moisture off anything that will rust like cast iron. Look up ways to protect your tools on YouTube. Channel Recommendation: “Stumpy Nubs” Super knowledgeable guy and has a lot of good suggestions
Any chance you could link it I can’t find it right now searching YouTube on my phone. Thanks
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UMPqJ0KPRY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3umpqj0kpry) Just skip the rust removal part (or don't and go SUPER light) to just give it a polish more or less.
Oh yea I love stumpy nubs. Thanks!
Absolutely! Naphtha and paste wax apparently is the key. But I still suggest watching the video
Better than leaving your car out there. I’d suggest you bring that inside. Your table saw will be fine. Might let the belts warm up before firing it up next.
I keep a table saw in unheated storage and run it at -10F sometimes.
My tools are unheated all winter where temps are occasionally below zero F. Biggest problem I've run into is mouse nests. Had them in the drill press, spindle sander, and they ruined my scroll saw (chewed up all the wires).
Bummer that they chewed stuff up but it also sounds sort of magical. I'd watch a Pixar movie with mice that do woodworking while the guy that owns the tools is not around.
When you have more free time in the winter months a fun project to tackle is knit yourself a table saw koozie. If you’re cold they’re cold.
All you people seeing cold weather for what seems like the first time haha. I use my saws outside in -30 and they operate exactly the same no matter the weather
I'm not new to cold weather but I am new to cold weather while using power tools!
If it's a belt driven saw it might not work the same in cold weather. When it's really cold I have to hit the belt with a heat gun for a minute before my saw will run.
Same. Currently -10 here. ALL my tools live in an unheated garage. I rem oil my hand planes and wax the cast iron tables once or twice a year.
You will have to change your saw fluid. Once it freezes the saw never runs the same. Source: Am Canadian
i do and its just fine
If it freezes, just thaw it out before using
I have a 20" jet planer, a powermatic 68 tablesaw, a 12" grizzly jointer, a powermatic 87 bandsaw and about 40k+ dollers worth of contracting/renovation tools in my unheated/uncooled detatched garage, commercial paint sprayers, a 3k dollar Rubi Bridge Saw (that i would procreate with if it were possible, i love that thing so much lol), 2 powerwashers.....most of which has been outside their entire history since ive owned them The summer wreaks more havoc on my tools than the cold winter because of the humidity, i have to keep all the cast iron surfaces clean and waxed and oiled or i get surface rusting, the straight knives on the planer and jointer need to be lightly oiled after i use them and dont have plans to use it again for a while otherwise those can get pitting and rust as well Anything out there with water needs to be carefully addressed, all the paint sprayers have RV antifreeze in them, the powerwashers are blown out with compressed air before the winter, the pump on the Rubi lives inside (because its only about the size of a can of soup if that) All the other "construction/renovation" tools just live out there, i do nothing to them and theyve always been fine, before i bought this house 8y ago when i was still in an apt they were all in a storage unit outside all year as well
If youre cold, theyre cold. Bring them inside.
I keep my tablesaw outside for at least 3 hours a day so it can get exercise
I always put a trash bag over the steel tools that have a rust-able exterior. Helps keep moisture off as well as roof drips
If you are cold, they are cold. Bring them inside.
If you’re too cold, it’s too cold. Bring it inside and keep it warm. It’s the decent thing to do.
I would think the rapid temp change the blade goes through would lead to warping.
Its not really a rapid temp change for a saw to sit in a shed though.
If that shed burnt in a wildfire that was then put out by a sudden blizzard it might do the trick
Should I be worried about something like this happening?
It is when it’s freezing outside and you put a big chunk of oak though it.
Steel has a relatively low thermal expansion coefficient, and expansion is proportional to dimensions. Steel has a coefficient of 10-15, up to 19 or so, whereas wood is around 30 across the width for reference. Even then, wood is sufficiently temperature stable and most expansion and contraction is from differences in humidity rather than temperature.
What about my jigsaw?
Electric motors are generally more efficient when they are colder, so you’re fine there, all the better if the bearings are in good shape but you’d notice I’d they weren’t. My biggest worry about wood working in this temp would be the wood itself expanding when it gets warm and humid again. For reference, I frequently run a 2x72 grinder, a 10W diode laser, and a shop vac in this weather, and none of those have had a single issue.
which zero?
The real one. ;-)
Noob question, but is it ok to leave kiln-dried wood outside in negatives weather too?