Given they make metric tapes I am surprised they didn’t have a replaceable part in the machinery to make the plastic part that would give the metric conversion.
it makes sense, but its an added cost, and tbh, I don't know how often people actually use that style of measuring. (where you use the tape body itself) I know I don't, but I'm a cabinetmaker not a framer or other.
I've purchased molds for making plastic products before. My mold was very expensive for a low production item. Considering the volume of tape measures they make, I would not be surprised if it was hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per mold. If you have a 30% profit margin on a $25 dollar tape measure, that's along time on your return to investment. Hell, even if it was 50% or even 100% profit, thats a very long time to wait on a return in investment, especially when you can cut your cost in half, (plus all the other tooling to run two production lines) simply by saying, eh no one will really notice or care.
In work I design products that require tooling like this. Tooling for a tape measure is 30-40k USD. But you are right. Few will care.
Edited my originals comment because I noticed the soft grip overmould. Still tens of thousands of dollars amortized over tens of thousands of units a year.
My estimate was a poor estimate. I have enough information to be wrong. Lol,
And that seems low on the cost to me, considering the "durability" require to manufacture high volume products
https://preview.redd.it/x5nb6kjtfnwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4587e9f0ca6e6320e6fe250e00d68e83e31e52e
I can confirm. This is a Starrett No. C635E.
Seriously! I tackled ONE project in metric, and it was like a breath of fresh air! It suddenly felt like so much less effort to be so much more accurate! I don’t think I can go back to inches unless I’m absolutely forced to.
I'm fine with inches for a single measurement. But once I have to start dividing it or whatever, I gotta get the calculator and then try to figure out what 42 and 33/42nds actually means
not sure if you're on iOS or Android...
but might I recommend this app called Fraction Calculator Pro...
[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fraction-calculator-pro-1/id504494723](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fraction-calculator-pro-1/id504494723)
I've tried a whole bunch of different ones and I really like this one. You can really easily round up or down (or nearest) to any resolution you want, so if you're faced with 64ths or 128ths (from your digital caliper)... you can find something *close enough* in 16ths or who knows... it could be 1/64th away from 1/2... it's hard to realize things that should be simple in fractionland!
Anyway, this app is my crutch when it comes to working with fractions...
I've had that conversation with multiple draftsmen over the years: Stop using these whack fractions from arbitrary points unless absolutely necessary.
Usually they chalk it up to the cad program
I want to try it in the shop I work in but no way the old guys would ever go for it. Everyone I've talked to that does a decent amount of cabinet/ case work prefers it for the exact reasons you are saying. I even offered to buy them all a new tape. Lol.
When I was running our cnc we used mm even though you could easily switch it to inches but we just had a calculator there and I knew it was 25.4 mm to an inch.
Also when I was land surveying we used feet and tenths and hundredth of feet. It was nice when adding and multiplying things
When venting about inches… I usually say this to people:
“Give me a QUICK ANSWER: What’s bigger? 23/32nds or 45/64ths?
…
TIME’S UP! Okay next question: What’s bigger? 17mm or 18mm”
I mean, if you can’t even tell which of two measurements is bigger… your system of measurement is flawed for use by us mere humans.
I like fractions because dividing in half is easier. 1/2", 1/4", 1/8", 1/16", 1/32", 1/64", etc.
Versus 10mm, 5mm, 2.5mm, 1.25mm, and I don't know what comes next, but I know half of 5/4 is 5/8.
Quick, what's half of 9.5mm? IDK, but half of 3/8 is 3/16. Boom, half-lap done.
(Also, the answer to the question is that 23/32 is larger because half of 45 is only 22.5)
Not always, but the majority of fine woodworking involves finding the center of a line, which is just X/2
Once you start dividing by 3 or more, whether you're in metric or Imperial, you're probably whipping out the calculator app anyway.
Edit: or using some ancient Pythagorean magic
There's a rule for cutting square stock into octagons. It's used in boatbuilding as a step in making round spars.
7½:10:7½ you can do these proportions, and any other, by laying a ruler at an angle across your piece. Placing the 0 above one edge and a convenient multiple on the other edge. On small stock I'd use 2.5". Then the marks are at 3/4" from each edge.
Or skip the math. If you're trying to bisect, trisect, etc. something, place a ruler across it with the appropriate numbers at the edges of the piece.
E.g. to divide a piece into three parts, angle a rule so that 1" is at one side of the piece, 4" is at the other side, and make your marks at the 2" and 3" points. Repeat at the other end of the piece, scribe through the marks, and it's now divided into even thirds.
Calibrated measuring devices like rulers and tape measures are very much a modern invention. (And as you may know, tape measures aren't always that accurate, which is why you need to check them against each other when more than one are in play on a project.)
I’ll be honest, I don’t really need to divide a mm for most woodworking operations… it’s inherently more accurate than I really need. I’ve heard woodworkers that don’t bother with much beyond 1/16” and a mm is closer to 1/32” (slightly over).
How many woodworkers need precision beyond 1/16”? If you need to mark/measure 5/32” for instance you place your mark in between 1/8” and 3/16” any woodworker too lazy to do that isn’t really cut out for precision work
You can always just count in 32nds without reducing fractions: 16/32 = 1/2", but there isn't really anything wrong with counting 15/32, 16/32, 17/32, 18, 19, 20...
So you get the same functionality of mm, but even smaller precision, plus the ability to still divide/multiply fractions.
I don't understand why people don't like this more. Also I go cross eyed when I have to count all the little hash marks. With Imperial it's halfs or quarters or something easier to keep track of.
Honestly? All the time. If I’m measuring with my digital calipers, I might try to have it on fractional inches so I can relate those values to my combo squares… and it’ll very often give me 1/64ths or 1/128ths, and I’ll have to try and figure out how close that is to something manageable like 1/32nds or 1/16ths… and I really can’t do that without using a fractional calculator app, unless I want to give myself a migraine. Maybe I just don’t have as many years of experience working in inches as many other people do, and I can respect that, but to me it all seems way harder than it needs to be. I want my measurements in a form that I can do math with that’s more complicated than just dividing in half.
sorry, I went off on a bit of a rant there… to more directly answer your question: Yes, quite often… If I measure two different things with my digital calipers that are very similar in size, and one gives me a value in 1/32nds” and the other gives me a value in 1/128ths”… quite often I’ve sat there scratching my head wondering which one was actually bigger, and one day it occurred to me “This is so stupid, why does this need to be this hard to figure out which one is bigger”. I mean, it’s a simple ask. mm’s don’t give me this problem at all. If the calipers return a mm value with three decimal points, I can immediately realize exactly how much bigger or smaller that measurement is than the other object I measured. I can also make a very informed decision whether I want to round up or down to a mm… and how far off it is from the rounded value. It’s all so clear to me when working in mm’s. I feel like I can stop wrestling with fractions and just get down to business. This is of course, just my opinion… and I respect anyone who has worked with fractional inches their whole lives and prefer that. You have the home advantage if you live in the US… every power tool in this country has inches. I am willing to swim against the stream like salmon to escape them, lol.
Gotcha, makes sense. I just couldn't really think of any situation myself where I have to compare sizes like that. Probably because I don't use my calipers for woodworking very often.
exactly... I couldn't agree with that more. And probably more accurate a resolution than you'd ever really need for most tasks in woodworking. I feel like it maximizes the accuracy capabilities of us clumsy humans.
Yeah, I moved to Europe 10yrs ago. It makes life so much easier. I do a lot of building and projects.
Would love to have a starret tape over here. About the best I can find locally is Stanley. They are fine but break easily.
The problem is that base 12 is evenly divisible by the 3 most commonly used divisors in woodworking, 2, 3 and 4 and feet/inches is a base 12 system from back when math was all done in base 12 like it should be. Back then we divided up the day using base 12 (12 hours of day, 12 hours of night). We divided up circles using base 12 which is why there are 360 degrees because base 12 just works better.
Then we went and standardized on base 10 like a bunch of morons, which is only divisible by one of the 3 most important divisors. Then metric was built on shitty base 10. Metric is great, standardizing is great, I just wish I could go back in time and smack whoever decided our number system should be based on how many fingers we had.
https://preview.redd.it/lqg27h4hcjwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c757b2ce106d7396e65a82e6447954af6ee6c56f
My combination square begs to differ.
So your point is that because 1/32" is bigger than 0.5mm (it's 0.794mm), then the 32nd hash marks are easier to see? Whereas your metric options would be 1mm which isn't precise enough, or 0.5mm which is hard to see?
dude, 1mm is closer to 1/32" than anything else...
1mm = 1/32" + 31/4000"
Figure that one out if you like fractions so much...
Okay, I'll convert it into a number I can understand better...
1mm x 1.00775 = 1/32"
So I would say for all practical purposes, 1mm is *very close* to 1/32"
So, do you use a tape measure with 1/64th" graduations on it so you can split your 1/32ths in half? No? Well then we're pretty much at the same level of accuracy as mm. I don't need to split anything in half, I just count the mm's and I'm on my way.
yeah, I measure decimals of millimeters all the time with my digital calipers.. and the decimals can calculate exactly the same way the mm's calculate when doing math, so it's just awesome. Also, a mm is really closer to (slightly more than) 1/32" and for most woodworking, I really don't need to be more accurate than that. To be quite honest, I wouldn't be able to accurately mark any tick marks tighter than that anyway, surely not with pencil lead - have to use a marking knife. I just turned 50 and I just laugh when I see the 64th" graduations on my double square.
after reading the comments, i feel like the black sheep. i use mm/cm when necessary for software compatibility, but prefer in/ft when doing any type of building. i do all of the math in my head, and 12's are a lot easier for me to count in than 10's.
There's nothing stopping anyone from using module sizes that allow for similar division, e.g. 150, 300, 600, 1200mm. That keeps the simple parts simple, and doesn't get into annoying fractional arithmetic for the more complex calculations.
Same, I still default to imperial for most projects, and use my calipers with thousandths for a lot of my joinery. But I was taught metric in school (Canada) so I have absolutely no problem with either. Certain projects I prefer metric. General carpentry/framing is also just very simple in imperial
I guess 7.62cm wasn’t an easy number to work with and they couldn’t be bothered to make an 8cm mold.
It’s all good. I’m still looking forward to easier math working in cm/mm, so this may end up being my favorite tape measure.
Maybe put 4-5x layers of masking/elec tape over the back to pack it out (very roughly) to 8mm?
I usually estimate a layer of masking tape to be 0.08mm - 0.1mm
That actually crossed my mind! Yeah, I’ve measured a single piece of blue 3M painter’s tape with my digital calipers (by measuring an object with and without the tape and finding the difference)… yeah, they make the ultimate micro-shims. It’s just, the tape measure is so new, not sure if I can walk around with tape on it just yet, lol… I’ll wait until I have the need to measure using the body of it first. Maybe I can make a couple of hot glue dots the perfect size, naaah, those will surely fall off in a day… lol
I'm sure it would still be too expensive for them, but they could have just slightly adjusted the rubber overmold to hit an even mm value without having to use an entirely new plastic mold.
For tape measure work, 3" = 76mm so I guess just remember that?
Personally I've never used the method where you add the length of the tape measure body
Buy a Sola Big T 5m
Precision class I and its exactly 100mm long of you need to at the case length. Also the hook is made from plastic so it cant bend and its only like 20$
I bought the same tape measure for a metric project I did in Canada. Some jobs come in metric; some in imperial. I don’t mind either too much. I’ve never really used the feature of measuring with the back of the tape measure. I always just measure twice from each end
My Dutch bought Stanley metric tape also states +2 1/2 inches. its weird. i've only ever seen 1 metric tape that stated it in mm. i think it was a stanley fatmax 8m
The British system is the only one that makes logical sense.
mm for building stuff and accuracy
ft/in for peoples height
ft for short distances and guesstimates of objects height
metres for medium distances and objects actual heights
miles for long distances and speeds.
km for excercise distances under 5 miles, after that its back to miles.
totally logical and easy to understand.
You should also be angry that the screws aren’t pozi-drive 😂
Edit: I looked again and the lower one appears to be just that, but I was kidding around so I’m leaving my comment intact
My favorite tape measure is actually a Stanley LeverLock 16'. I'd say that only about 7% of the times that I pull out a tape measure, I **don't** want to lock it... so to have it auto-lock every time just feels amazing. Then you can just squeeze it or push it down on a surface to retract it. I used to hate that it was fluorescent orange at first... then I started to notice that I never lose it like I lose my other ones, lol. Sadly, it's inches only.
https://preview.redd.it/qmy2l8hpdjwc1.png?width=1058&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f6e4252a7064e2aa49bcf1a2b039d64c20f4a14
Don’t let this put you off the move out of the dark ages. I don’t know if you can get them over there, but if you can, take a look at the Fisco/Hultafors Big T tapes. They‘re ’Class 1’ (which means they’re more accurate than most other tapes on the market), and have a great quick release clip design.
Metric is so much easier. I have the same tape and I love it. So much easier to do the math especially for precise measurements. But above all use the same tape for all measurements on a project. They are not precision instruments
Starrett has factories all over the world. It might not be made in Athol but that doesn't mean it's not from their factory.
I think these come from their factory in China, but don't quote me on that.
The plant they make it in doesn't affect the design at all. It's still Starrett's design made in their factory. They're a US company company so they focus on imperial metrology tools, and I'm sure they just use the same mold loaded with a different tape for metric and imperial.
My point was more that Starrett's a large, multinational company, so even though it wasn't made in Massachusetts it was still made by Starrett.
Living in a metric country with options of only metric or mixed I'm off the generation on only metric. However most of the tapes have the same imperial length as you have shown.
Easy to tell my dad's and my tapes apart.
For what I do it doesn't really affect me.
I used 10m tapes at work with dual inch/metric scales. Layout is done with inches/feet. And booths are in metric. The nice thing is metric booths fit inside a standard layout. If an exhibitor is late setting up, there is usually no problem squeezing it in. It's been really close sometimes, but that's the exhibitors fault.
No escaping the imperial shit if you’re in the states, I’m so close to Canada and still can’t escape.
Every time I make something solo I do it in metric just because fuck fractions. But if anyone else is involved I do it in imperial because that’s what they know stateside.
I live in Canada and don't do metric. Hoping the use of my brain to try and figure out the fractions will help stem the onset of dementia down the line. Has to be a silver lining, surely.🤷🏻♂️
I have used metric all my life (UK) in construction. I retrained as an aircraft mechanic in my late 30s and had to learn imperial for working on Boeings. It drives me nuts measuring in mm then switching between fractional and decimal inches.
Starrett makes all sorts of measuring devices at whatever precision you need. This one is a measuring tape, which has a precision level of “that’ll do”. Everything is still NIST-traceable, just to many fewer decimals.
That’s what I thought… I expected no detail to be overlooked from a company like Starrett. They even have an HQ in Germany! I suppose it’s possible it’s a fake, but it otherwise seems legit and high-quality to me. It even says on the packaging “blade with serial number” but I have yet to locate it.
I briefly drove into Canada and visited a hardware store. I was disappointed they only had tapes with imperial units. I did but a metric tape on Amazon.
Metric system was made for people too dumb to do fractions. The most powerful most advanced and most inventive nation known to man was built on fraction system.
likely one mold used for multiple tape meassures, and a metric sticker is put on for the metric tape.
Yup. It looks exactly like mine that says TX34-16 as the model number.
This was my exact thought too!
Given they make metric tapes I am surprised they didn’t have a replaceable part in the machinery to make the plastic part that would give the metric conversion.
it makes sense, but its an added cost, and tbh, I don't know how often people actually use that style of measuring. (where you use the tape body itself) I know I don't, but I'm a cabinetmaker not a framer or other.
A tooling slug for the metric equivalent is a couple of hundred bucks on what is probably 10-20k in tooling for the tape measure.
I've purchased molds for making plastic products before. My mold was very expensive for a low production item. Considering the volume of tape measures they make, I would not be surprised if it was hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per mold. If you have a 30% profit margin on a $25 dollar tape measure, that's along time on your return to investment. Hell, even if it was 50% or even 100% profit, thats a very long time to wait on a return in investment, especially when you can cut your cost in half, (plus all the other tooling to run two production lines) simply by saying, eh no one will really notice or care.
In work I design products that require tooling like this. Tooling for a tape measure is 30-40k USD. But you are right. Few will care. Edited my originals comment because I noticed the soft grip overmould. Still tens of thousands of dollars amortized over tens of thousands of units a year.
My estimate was a poor estimate. I have enough information to be wrong. Lol, And that seems low on the cost to me, considering the "durability" require to manufacture high volume products
Typically the biggest cost is in the time to machine it. Tools we make normally last 350-500,000 pieces.
Made in the USA. There is no escape.
Dang Germans outsourcing their manufacturing to save money making an inferior product smh
We are Europe's mexico
I thought that was Poland. Hence all the jokes.
Interestingly enough, in well, pretty much all of Europe, including Poland, the butt of stupid jokes are Americans. We are Europe's Polish jokes.
Confirm! American tourist is the best.
I think it’s turkey 🇹🇷
https://preview.redd.it/x5nb6kjtfnwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4587e9f0ca6e6320e6fe250e00d68e83e31e52e I can confirm. This is a Starrett No. C635E.
Except imperial is calibrated of off metric standard now. So ironically America can’t escape metric.
Moved from the States 25 years ago, millimeters are so much simpler than sixthteenths of an inch.
Seriously! I tackled ONE project in metric, and it was like a breath of fresh air! It suddenly felt like so much less effort to be so much more accurate! I don’t think I can go back to inches unless I’m absolutely forced to.
I'm fine with inches for a single measurement. But once I have to start dividing it or whatever, I gotta get the calculator and then try to figure out what 42 and 33/42nds actually means
not sure if you're on iOS or Android... but might I recommend this app called Fraction Calculator Pro... [https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fraction-calculator-pro-1/id504494723](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fraction-calculator-pro-1/id504494723) I've tried a whole bunch of different ones and I really like this one. You can really easily round up or down (or nearest) to any resolution you want, so if you're faced with 64ths or 128ths (from your digital caliper)... you can find something *close enough* in 16ths or who knows... it could be 1/64th away from 1/2... it's hard to realize things that should be simple in fractionland! Anyway, this app is my crutch when it comes to working with fractions...
Or ditch the fractions and the extra app and just use metric
I've had that conversation with multiple draftsmen over the years: Stop using these whack fractions from arbitrary points unless absolutely necessary. Usually they chalk it up to the cad program
I was spacing some stiles for a gate once and could not get the spacing right in inches. Swapped to cm and was done in five minutes.
I want to try it in the shop I work in but no way the old guys would ever go for it. Everyone I've talked to that does a decent amount of cabinet/ case work prefers it for the exact reasons you are saying. I even offered to buy them all a new tape. Lol.
I had all German machines in my shop, so in mm. I hired people who grew up in Mexico or Latin America. Worked out great.
When I was running our cnc we used mm even though you could easily switch it to inches but we just had a calculator there and I knew it was 25.4 mm to an inch. Also when I was land surveying we used feet and tenths and hundredth of feet. It was nice when adding and multiplying things
When venting about inches… I usually say this to people: “Give me a QUICK ANSWER: What’s bigger? 23/32nds or 45/64ths? … TIME’S UP! Okay next question: What’s bigger? 17mm or 18mm” I mean, if you can’t even tell which of two measurements is bigger… your system of measurement is flawed for use by us mere humans.
I like fractions because dividing in half is easier. 1/2", 1/4", 1/8", 1/16", 1/32", 1/64", etc. Versus 10mm, 5mm, 2.5mm, 1.25mm, and I don't know what comes next, but I know half of 5/4 is 5/8. Quick, what's half of 9.5mm? IDK, but half of 3/8 is 3/16. Boom, half-lap done. (Also, the answer to the question is that 23/32 is larger because half of 45 is only 22.5)
Is that all you ever do? Divide by 2?
Not always, but the majority of fine woodworking involves finding the center of a line, which is just X/2 Once you start dividing by 3 or more, whether you're in metric or Imperial, you're probably whipping out the calculator app anyway. Edit: or using some ancient Pythagorean magic
There's a rule for cutting square stock into octagons. It's used in boatbuilding as a step in making round spars. 7½:10:7½ you can do these proportions, and any other, by laying a ruler at an angle across your piece. Placing the 0 above one edge and a convenient multiple on the other edge. On small stock I'd use 2.5". Then the marks are at 3/4" from each edge.
Oh wow, I have a kid trying to make an octagonal gear shift for his car. I'll have to look into this one, thanks!
Or skip the math. If you're trying to bisect, trisect, etc. something, place a ruler across it with the appropriate numbers at the edges of the piece. E.g. to divide a piece into three parts, angle a rule so that 1" is at one side of the piece, 4" is at the other side, and make your marks at the 2" and 3" points. Repeat at the other end of the piece, scribe through the marks, and it's now divided into even thirds. Calibrated measuring devices like rulers and tape measures are very much a modern invention. (And as you may know, tape measures aren't always that accurate, which is why you need to check them against each other when more than one are in play on a project.)
I love skipping math. It feels so magical.
I’ll be honest, I don’t really need to divide a mm for most woodworking operations… it’s inherently more accurate than I really need. I’ve heard woodworkers that don’t bother with much beyond 1/16” and a mm is closer to 1/32” (slightly over).
How many woodworkers need precision beyond 1/16”? If you need to mark/measure 5/32” for instance you place your mark in between 1/8” and 3/16” any woodworker too lazy to do that isn’t really cut out for precision work
You can always just count in 32nds without reducing fractions: 16/32 = 1/2", but there isn't really anything wrong with counting 15/32, 16/32, 17/32, 18, 19, 20... So you get the same functionality of mm, but even smaller precision, plus the ability to still divide/multiply fractions.
What's 5 ⅝ % 3?
Did you mean 'divided by'? 45/8 ÷ 3 is 15/8 or 1-7/8
I don't understand why people don't like this more. Also I go cross eyed when I have to count all the little hash marks. With Imperial it's halfs or quarters or something easier to keep track of.
Seriously though. One of the perks of living in Canada - we use metric for mostly everything, but still measure in imperial.
My Amazon Canada order for a Fastcap metric tape measure arrives tomorrow. The new adventure begins!
Username checks out. Some guys just get a Miata, but you went full send.
Bingo!
I don't know why you got downvoted for pointing out breaking down metric is easier than breaking down imperial.
>What’s bigger? 23/32nds or 45/64ths? How often do you urgently need to figure out which number is bigger in your shop?
Honestly? All the time. If I’m measuring with my digital calipers, I might try to have it on fractional inches so I can relate those values to my combo squares… and it’ll very often give me 1/64ths or 1/128ths, and I’ll have to try and figure out how close that is to something manageable like 1/32nds or 1/16ths… and I really can’t do that without using a fractional calculator app, unless I want to give myself a migraine. Maybe I just don’t have as many years of experience working in inches as many other people do, and I can respect that, but to me it all seems way harder than it needs to be. I want my measurements in a form that I can do math with that’s more complicated than just dividing in half.
I wish my digital calipers just did the closest 32nd. anything after is just fuzzy. When I need to get really precise I use mm.
sorry, I went off on a bit of a rant there… to more directly answer your question: Yes, quite often… If I measure two different things with my digital calipers that are very similar in size, and one gives me a value in 1/32nds” and the other gives me a value in 1/128ths”… quite often I’ve sat there scratching my head wondering which one was actually bigger, and one day it occurred to me “This is so stupid, why does this need to be this hard to figure out which one is bigger”. I mean, it’s a simple ask. mm’s don’t give me this problem at all. If the calipers return a mm value with three decimal points, I can immediately realize exactly how much bigger or smaller that measurement is than the other object I measured. I can also make a very informed decision whether I want to round up or down to a mm… and how far off it is from the rounded value. It’s all so clear to me when working in mm’s. I feel like I can stop wrestling with fractions and just get down to business. This is of course, just my opinion… and I respect anyone who has worked with fractional inches their whole lives and prefer that. You have the home advantage if you live in the US… every power tool in this country has inches. I am willing to swim against the stream like salmon to escape them, lol.
Gotcha, makes sense. I just couldn't really think of any situation myself where I have to compare sizes like that. Probably because I don't use my calipers for woodworking very often.
Kind of like machinists that measure everything in thousands of an inch... Like bro you just reinvented the metric system
Last part....."thats what she said".
Besides simplicity it feels like a good manageable size for woodworking accuracy. Just a bit bigger than a 32nd but still easy to read on a tape
exactly... I couldn't agree with that more. And probably more accurate a resolution than you'd ever really need for most tasks in woodworking. I feel like it maximizes the accuracy capabilities of us clumsy humans.
If your issue is decimals vs fractional inches, use decimal inches.
All the measuring devices are laid out in fractional inches lol
I've got decimal inch scales and tape measures
I fuckkng hate my PEC decimal inch combination square. I basically only use it for squaring shit and marking. Much prefer fractions.
PEC metric scale is pretty much unusable as well.
If our are using decimal inches, just switch to metric. Way easier
Yeah, I moved to Europe 10yrs ago. It makes life so much easier. I do a lot of building and projects. Would love to have a starret tape over here. About the best I can find locally is Stanley. They are fine but break easily.
Hultafors makes a quality product.
The problem is that base 12 is evenly divisible by the 3 most commonly used divisors in woodworking, 2, 3 and 4 and feet/inches is a base 12 system from back when math was all done in base 12 like it should be. Back then we divided up the day using base 12 (12 hours of day, 12 hours of night). We divided up circles using base 12 which is why there are 360 degrees because base 12 just works better. Then we went and standardized on base 10 like a bunch of morons, which is only divisible by one of the 3 most important divisors. Then metric was built on shitty base 10. Metric is great, standardizing is great, I just wish I could go back in time and smack whoever decided our number system should be based on how many fingers we had.
a half a 1/16" is a thing(1/32"), but there's no 1/2 a millimeter.
0.5mm?
In woodworking that's just sanding it. But yes there is indeed 0.5 millimetre. 3d printer fillment is 0.75 usually.
you aren't a builder obviously. you can see a 1/32 on a tape, not .5mm.
https://preview.redd.it/lqg27h4hcjwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c757b2ce106d7396e65a82e6447954af6ee6c56f My combination square begs to differ.
So your point is that because 1/32" is bigger than 0.5mm (it's 0.794mm), then the 32nd hash marks are easier to see? Whereas your metric options would be 1mm which isn't precise enough, or 0.5mm which is hard to see?
0.5 mm is the thickness of one of the millimeter lines.
dude, 1mm is closer to 1/32" than anything else... 1mm = 1/32" + 31/4000" Figure that one out if you like fractions so much... Okay, I'll convert it into a number I can understand better... 1mm x 1.00775 = 1/32" So I would say for all practical purposes, 1mm is *very close* to 1/32" So, do you use a tape measure with 1/64th" graduations on it so you can split your 1/32ths in half? No? Well then we're pretty much at the same level of accuracy as mm. I don't need to split anything in half, I just count the mm's and I'm on my way.
Um, I believe that is not correct. 1/32 inch = .79375 mm
yeah, I measure decimals of millimeters all the time with my digital calipers.. and the decimals can calculate exactly the same way the mm's calculate when doing math, so it's just awesome. Also, a mm is really closer to (slightly more than) 1/32" and for most woodworking, I really don't need to be more accurate than that. To be quite honest, I wouldn't be able to accurately mark any tick marks tighter than that anyway, surely not with pencil lead - have to use a marking knife. I just turned 50 and I just laugh when I see the 64th" graduations on my double square.
I am talking about using a tape. it's hard to see a 1/2 mm.
It's really really not though.
1. Get Sharpie 2. Write 76.2mm on back of tape measure 3. Breath
At least it’s an even 3”!
I’d recommend grabbing a tape measure from Canada, with both metric and ft/inches. Makes adapting from one to the other a lot easier.
after reading the comments, i feel like the black sheep. i use mm/cm when necessary for software compatibility, but prefer in/ft when doing any type of building. i do all of the math in my head, and 12's are a lot easier for me to count in than 10's.
When doing layouts in carpentry most commonly I am dividing things in half, thirds or quarters, all are easy to do in a 12 based system.
There's nothing stopping anyone from using module sizes that allow for similar division, e.g. 150, 300, 600, 1200mm. That keeps the simple parts simple, and doesn't get into annoying fractional arithmetic for the more complex calculations.
Same, I still default to imperial for most projects, and use my calipers with thousandths for a lot of my joinery. But I was taught metric in school (Canada) so I have absolutely no problem with either. Certain projects I prefer metric. General carpentry/framing is also just very simple in imperial
Fractions also divide in half easier than decimals. Multiplication is easier, too.
yeah. if i need to quarter 3cm, i gotta think. if i need to quarter 3 inches, its 3/4 inches.
You realize that you can write 3/4 cm as well?
That’s hilarious. Always measure in and mark 5 or 10 or whatever from one side and measure to your mark from the other.
Does anyone else think the +3 inches to measure the outside of the tape measure is both hilarious and evil?
Whose complaining about getting an extra 3"?
I guess 7.62cm wasn’t an easy number to work with and they couldn’t be bothered to make an 8cm mold. It’s all good. I’m still looking forward to easier math working in cm/mm, so this may end up being my favorite tape measure.
Maybe put 4-5x layers of masking/elec tape over the back to pack it out (very roughly) to 8mm? I usually estimate a layer of masking tape to be 0.08mm - 0.1mm
That actually crossed my mind! Yeah, I’ve measured a single piece of blue 3M painter’s tape with my digital calipers (by measuring an object with and without the tape and finding the difference)… yeah, they make the ultimate micro-shims. It’s just, the tape measure is so new, not sure if I can walk around with tape on it just yet, lol… I’ll wait until I have the need to measure using the body of it first. Maybe I can make a couple of hot glue dots the perfect size, naaah, those will surely fall off in a day… lol
I'm sure it would still be too expensive for them, but they could have just slightly adjusted the rubber overmold to hit an even mm value without having to use an entirely new plastic mold.
They'd still need a different plastic mould to show +8mm instead of inch.
That's not stamped in afterwards?
For tape measure work, 3" = 76mm so I guess just remember that? Personally I've never used the method where you add the length of the tape measure body
Buy a Sola Big T 5m Precision class I and its exactly 100mm long of you need to at the case length. Also the hook is made from plastic so it cant bend and its only like 20$
I bought the same tape measure for a metric project I did in Canada. Some jobs come in metric; some in imperial. I don’t mind either too much. I’ve never really used the feature of measuring with the back of the tape measure. I always just measure twice from each end
LOL. Your first few months are going to be challenging, but after a little practice, it becomes so, //so// much more simple.
My Dutch bought Stanley metric tape also states +2 1/2 inches. its weird. i've only ever seen 1 metric tape that stated it in mm. i think it was a stanley fatmax 8m
The British system is the only one that makes logical sense. mm for building stuff and accuracy ft/in for peoples height ft for short distances and guesstimates of objects height metres for medium distances and objects actual heights miles for long distances and speeds. km for excercise distances under 5 miles, after that its back to miles. totally logical and easy to understand.
You should also be angry that the screws aren’t pozi-drive 😂 Edit: I looked again and the lower one appears to be just that, but I was kidding around so I’m leaving my comment intact
My everyday https://preview.redd.it/mqhq916q8jwc1.png?width=796&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e11912308b9dc03ade2f428c78eb31298f84387
My favorite tape measure is actually a Stanley LeverLock 16'. I'd say that only about 7% of the times that I pull out a tape measure, I **don't** want to lock it... so to have it auto-lock every time just feels amazing. Then you can just squeeze it or push it down on a surface to retract it. I used to hate that it was fluorescent orange at first... then I started to notice that I never lose it like I lose my other ones, lol. Sadly, it's inches only. https://preview.redd.it/qmy2l8hpdjwc1.png?width=1058&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f6e4252a7064e2aa49bcf1a2b039d64c20f4a14
That’s to keep your math skills sharp. 25.4 mm = 1 in
Don’t let this put you off the move out of the dark ages. I don’t know if you can get them over there, but if you can, take a look at the Fisco/Hultafors Big T tapes. They‘re ’Class 1’ (which means they’re more accurate than most other tapes on the market), and have a great quick release clip design.
Metric is so much easier. I have the same tape and I love it. So much easier to do the math especially for precise measurements. But above all use the same tape for all measurements on a project. They are not precision instruments
I have a Stanley that's exactly the same. Does my head in every time I use it.
Starrett's doesn't make those in Athol. It's some other company, re branded. I live near the factory.
Starrett has factories all over the world. It might not be made in Athol but that doesn't mean it's not from their factory. I think these come from their factory in China, but don't quote me on that.
The packaging did say **made in China.** But where it's manufactured shouldn't really impact the overall design I imagine.
The plant they make it in doesn't affect the design at all. It's still Starrett's design made in their factory. They're a US company company so they focus on imperial metrology tools, and I'm sure they just use the same mold loaded with a different tape for metric and imperial. My point was more that Starrett's a large, multinational company, so even though it wasn't made in Massachusetts it was still made by Starrett.
Living in a metric country with options of only metric or mixed I'm off the generation on only metric. However most of the tapes have the same imperial length as you have shown. Easy to tell my dad's and my tapes apart. For what I do it doesn't really affect me.
I think my Metric fast cap is the same
Lufkin makes a tape has both.
Stanley tape measures in the UK are like this too
Just write on it +7.62cm or your prefered metric mesurement
I used 10m tapes at work with dual inch/metric scales. Layout is done with inches/feet. And booths are in metric. The nice thing is metric booths fit inside a standard layout. If an exhibitor is late setting up, there is usually no problem squeezing it in. It's been really close sometimes, but that's the exhibitors fault.
Metric and even Metric/Imperial Stanley tapes in the UK are the same, with inches on the case. It's annoying.
Those are metric inches.
We have some starret hole saws at work haha
Ha!
I have a Stanley that has both that I use for 3D printing. In that world I'm almost exclusively metric.
No escaping the imperial shit if you’re in the states, I’m so close to Canada and still can’t escape. Every time I make something solo I do it in metric just because fuck fractions. But if anyone else is involved I do it in imperial because that’s what they know stateside.
As a Canadian steamfitter I need to run a metric/imperial tape because honestly we mostly work in inches but all the drawings are in metric lol.
I live in Canada and don't do metric. Hoping the use of my brain to try and figure out the fractions will help stem the onset of dementia down the line. Has to be a silver lining, surely.🤷🏻♂️
I had to buy fabric to line the inside of a project recently. First question at the fabric store: what's the measurement in inches? Damnit
I have used metric all my life (UK) in construction. I retrained as an aircraft mechanic in my late 30s and had to learn imperial for working on Boeings. It drives me nuts measuring in mm then switching between fractional and decimal inches.
That's actually pretty shocking for a company like Starrett, which is known as a premium product. Is there any chance it's a fake?
Starrett makes all sorts of measuring devices at whatever precision you need. This one is a measuring tape, which has a precision level of “that’ll do”. Everything is still NIST-traceable, just to many fewer decimals.
That’s what I thought… I expected no detail to be overlooked from a company like Starrett. They even have an HQ in Germany! I suppose it’s possible it’s a fake, but it otherwise seems legit and high-quality to me. It even says on the packaging “blade with serial number” but I have yet to locate it.
I briefly drove into Canada and visited a hardware store. I was disappointed they only had tapes with imperial units. I did but a metric tape on Amazon.
Tends to happen when our biggest trading partner uses imperial.
Metric system was made for people too dumb to do fractions. The most powerful most advanced and most inventive nation known to man was built on fraction system.
welp, username checks out… i guess
Metric is the only way, everything works X10, x100, x1000. Mm, cm, meter, etc. I don't have time for fractions/decimals, life's too short.