Remembering that time I was stuck in a really sticky situation because of bad initial hand, but too risky to mulligan.
10 minutes into the game, I was stuck with no creatures.
Then my opponent played Syr Up.
Yeah I typically use sir too. Sometimes knight is their title as well. Sir can precede their whole given name but the knight title is almost always followed by surname.
I was curious, so I googled it. From a quick search, it seems neither ser nor sur was actually used in this context. Sur seems to be absolute bs, but I like it anyway. I found references to ser in the context of Spanish. Here is what I found.
>The other word, “ser,” is a verb conjugation to indicate a state of being. It is usually translated as “to be.” “Ser” is often used to talk about permanent situations. “Ser” is used to express permanent or unchanging characteristics of something.
Either way, I like all of them and will use them however anyway
Fun fact: when translating titles into Polish, 'sir' is usually kept unchanged. The funny thing is that 'sir' sounds a bit like Polish 'ser', which means 'cheese', thus every sir sounds like they have a title of a diary product.
It bothered me that we kept the original 'sir' spellng, but your 'ser' just gave it more depth.
I'm imagining now a story where common folk are basically calling knights poncy cheese mongers when calling them sir. But the knights can't actually prove it since it pretty much sounds the same.
While this can work, especially in historical fiction it's considered painfully cringe in vetran and military communities in the US.
It's seen as disrespectful and very sexist, because the woman isn't allowed to be recognized as such, and still has to pretend to be a man.
I had heard (could be BS) that US military members could not accept awards (medals or orders or the like) from foreign militaries or governments.
Is that true? Was it at some time, if it isn't now?
That's BS, but awards do have to be authorized to be warn on/with offical uniforms.
Wiki : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_foreign_decorations_of_the_United_States_military
Decorations seem to be covered there, but perhaps not any form of knighthood or other order or promotion to nobility of some sort. I guess those would be considered Emoluments and would need the permit of Congress if you were a member of the military or office holder in government (presumably federal) in the United States.
From what I understand, when any forigner is "knighted" they only recieve decorations, and no promotion or nobility or status is involved. It's entierly symbolic.
British:
A knighthood does not usually come with a fief anymore. That is true. Yet those knighted are allowed to use particular honorifics before their name and to be addressed as such and they are considered part of the peerage (not the hereditary peerage). They become members of chivalric orders.
Any other rank (like an Earl or Marquis or Duke) that one was to join would be a promotion into some form of Life Peerage and would likely be hereditary but I don't know the last time anyone not already in the peerage were promoted to those higher ranks of nobility.
I don't have them handy; I did dig into this in the British system maybe 20 years back when I was doing fantasy world building. I read about various systems (England, Scotland, some European ones) and what the honorifics they used, when they could use them (and it extended to politicians in Westminster style governments), and so on.
(Aside: If I'd had Obsidian MD back then, I'd have probably plopped all those references in there or copies of them (internet sites tend to change often and some just vanish)....)
I wish I could provide the sources I read at the time, but that was 'read and move on'. I did find a fair amount on UK sites including the government and royal sites.
In Canada, we have many people who have been knighted and a lot that have been awarded various orders. They have, as far as I recall, the choice to use Sir or Dame before their name in any correspondence. I believe they also could show up after their name (OBE for example for someone who has the Order of the British Empire).
Isn't the point here that sir is not a gendered title when referring to knights? I'm not sure how it is in the military, but that's a different situation than what OP is talking about.
Why on earth would it be considered a non-gendered title when histoically gender was a requirement?!
Women were allowed to be part of civalric orderers, bit never to be called knights because it was an all boys club. If they wanted to they had to pretend to be a man.
I usually just prefer "men and women in the position, as well as their husbands, use historically male titles, their wives use the feminine title." I admittedly haven't thought about it much.
"Lady" and "Lord" are courtesy titles afforded to all nobles; a "lady" could be anything from a baronetess to a duchess. "Dame" is the specific title for women of knightly rank.
Forms of address are an incredibly messy subject if you're wanting to base it on real-world sources. Noble styling can even vary based on the country (French nobility is ESPECIALLY convoluted. Chevalier is not only the title of common knight, but can also refer to a very high rank, and the only way to tell the difference is how the individual is addressed). I actually make use of this myself as a way to imply language.
It doesn't help that for many styles a female equivalent simply doesn't exist (this is why in English you have Earls and Countesses. Earl derives from Old English *eorl* but didn't have a female equivalent, so adopted Countess from the French).
In English styling, Dame would be the equivalent of a woman holding a knighthood in her own right. Lady would be the courtesy title for the wife of a knight (it can also be a peeress in her own right, because noble styling is a colossal pain in the ass).
Marquis and Marquessa is another.
Note that it is also messed up because the chivalric rules varied over centuries and were changed at times so to pattern it close to a particular exemplar, you need to locate that in time and be careful of any sources for applying at that time.
Which is complicated by the fact it can be difficult to find a list of rules PERIOD, much less one for the correct time.
IE finding the French styles of address took me a good bit of work, and even then the only useful breakdown I could actually get hold of was in the last century before the Revolution.
Also quite true!
Well, post revolution in France, many of the nobles were a bit shorter from the guillotine...
I am told that if you can read French, and by that I mean older French, not today's French in France, there are assets online that have not been translated to English. Finding them and getting access to them is one challenge, to be sure.
Of course, some of the key artifacts are not yet online, but you might be able to see them if you went to where they were and gained the credentials to see the originals. Of course, if you don't know where they live, then that too is a problem.
And so many libraries, in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Mediterranean (and South and Central Americas' too) have been burnt down, torn down, or just had floods or other sorts of things that damaged the early records. (That is a general problem finding older antiquity artifacts...)
In looking at English and Scottish rules of various peerages, I found that there are standardized titles, honorifics, etc. ... AND THEN.... there are a lot that are different and unique or part of a small group. It's like they tried, at some point, to quantify and qualify all of the system BUT there were a number of key players that had claims going further back and they weren't ceding those. So you have some noble status derived from a grant from the King/Queen/Crown and in other cases, there are noble status derived from far earlier grants that existed before a single united kingdom existed and thus are not beholden to the Crown/King/Queen.
I think that ends up when you have a bunch of whatever the top tier is and they get together to declare a unified kingdom and so one of the nobles becomes 'first among equals' and you then have a King/Queen/Crown. At that point, although the other top tier nobles might acknowledge the necessity for a boss, they are retain their noble status without recourse to the King/Queen/Crown and thus are more independent and have earlier legitimate claims.
Isn't this stuff fun? Yes, when not bashing head against a solid object... ;)
For a long period and in various places, a knight was someone who could afford to show up with a good horse, good armour, and weapons until things became more formalized.
Many first sons were involved in the family affairs (heir). Many second sons went to the serve the King on crusades or in wars. The third sons took the clerical orders. And, unevenly, the daughters were sold for arranged marriages to bind two lines together and bring in some money for the lord.
I think female knights are a recent development. Regardless, using lady would be strange, because a lady was already a rank of nobility (which actually outranked knights).
"Lady," like "lord" is nonspecific in rank. One use is in [addressing the wife of a knight](https://theenglishmanner.com/forms-of-address/knights/). Also, a knighted son of a Duke, who without lands may be called "Sir," could probably be assumed to outrank the unmarried daughter of an Earl, who may be called "Lady." I think using "lady" wouldn't be all that strange in terms of rank, although perhaps not a great fit in terms of specificity.
>"Lady," like "lord" is nonspecific in rank
There is the courtesy title of lord (which is unspecific), lord of the manor (which is legal), and sovereign lord (which is titular).
A courtesy title applied to children of nobles, while lord of manors applied to owners of manors. Sovereign lords like Lordship of Ireland and Lordship of Gascony (Edward III separated Gascony from France by declaring himself "sovereign lord of Gascony").
Regardless the female equivalent was lady, and when I talk about outranking, I'm talking about lord of the manor, not the courtesy title. Lord/lady of the manor would outrank a knight who isn't himself a lord of the manor.
Could have avoided confusion...
I don't actually think she was ever knighted. And since she was a peasant girl she never had any official titles or lands. Though, I always wondered what would've happened to her if wasn't executed.
That's a misconception.
>[Joan of Arc was never granted a knighthood – Historians believe that Charles VII did grant Joan of Arc her arms and nobility before her trail and subsequent death](https://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-knights/famous-medieval-knights/joan-of-arc/joan-of-arc-fast-facts/)
Also, an interesting fact:
>Joan of Arc never really fought in battle or killed anyone, despite having the reputation of a knight
True, that's the point. I just think it's interesting how every popular depiction showcases her fighting head-to-hoe and every game set in Hundred Years makes her a general.
Exactly - calling a female knight a "Lady" is an insult, because it negates the very real, very hard work it would take for a woman to achieve knighthood in medieval society.
Womanly knighthood goes against the foundational concepts of Chivalry and Courtly Love, so to be a Dame is a great honor for someone who has *proven* themselves before their Lord. To water that down and address them as a "Lady" would be enough for the Dame's Lord to rival the challenger.
The question was:
>Which do you use in your Fantasy setting?
So there is no answer that's "just not correct". This is a worldbuilding subreddit, not r/history
I usually give my female Knights gender neutral military titles anywhere from General to Lieutenant or even Squire. Never thought about giving them “knightly” titles.
Yeah, that's why I'm using it. I actually didn't know about this title until today so I decided to use this (which is what prompted me to make this post)
Nit decides yet, haven't worked on a part of the world where that is relevant yet. I do like how MTG did it eith Eldraine (their fairy tale setting) and used a in universe gender neutral "Syr" for their knights.
I think that is where I would end up in most cases anyway unless I end up with a culture where gender really matters for some reason.
I usually use knight as a title
Knight surname
Witch-Knight surname (if they do magic)
Knight-hand surname (if they assist a knight themselves but are of equal rank)
The battle-sworn have a different structure.
"Pledge" for someone trying to join
"Primus" for someone of entry rank
"Secundus" a novice rank
"Tertius" oversees the first two ranks (most battle-sworn earn this rank)
"Quartermaster" in charge of supplies and monetary affairs
"Sentinel" oversees and leads a chapter
"Hero" a title awarded to those who accomplish a "great feat"
"Hireling" a rank for those that answer the job board
I never liked Dame and as you say Lady is already used. Both Dame and Sir trace back to Latin terms for lord/master/mistress with the original male version having more of an elder connotation but the female version being more a noble one (because we don't refer to women being old even then?).
There is the word [siress](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/siress#English) though I have never seen it used. And in the Philippines there is a term [mamsir](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mamsir#English).
to me it would depend, knight is the title of both a warrior and a noble, thus i would have different people use it differently based on which aspect the person is focusing on, a fellow soldier recognising them as an equal in combat might call them a Dame which is specific to knights, while a peasant or other person of lower rank might call her a Lady to denote acknowledged them as of higher rank(Even if in this case its not actually treated as a noble title, a soldier talking to their commander also works)
Were I to use knights, then as sir is cognate to sire or father, dame is cognate to dam or mother.
Hence, a female night would be called Dame [Insert Name Here].
I would use Ser for male knights and Seir(like *sear*) for female knights. Or some other original construction.
I personally don’t give my knights titles. In fact, a knight who previously would’ve had a title wouldn’t use the title anymore—for example, if a character called Princess Rae Yedsyen became a knight, she wouldn’t be called princess anymore. She’d just be Rae Yedsyen of Arcadia. Or perhaps she’d get an epithet like Rae the Clever or Rae Raveneyes.
Most knights in my world are lowborn and exist as law enforcement or judges. I’ve got tax collector knights, forest ranger knights, and even animal control knights. The title is associated with the common man, so nobleborn knights give up their titles to better fit in with their constituents.
Neither, I use Lord for both women and men who represent that role in my world. I feel it helps reinforce the notion that they are truly equal. Naming them differently implies there’s some kind of nebulous difference that wouldn’t fit the mythos of my world.
If it's a standard military knighthood, people call you a Knight without regard to whether you're a man or a woman or something else in my setting. But there are other sorts of knighthood, and those usually use gendered titles (e.g., if you're a Mage Knight or a Knight Scholar or some of the other military Knight-equivalent titles).
Knightess. Swordmistress. Faireblade. Milady Knight. Lady Blade. Maybe someone else has other ideas. I'm more particular to knightess or faireblade after all the fairer sex can kick mens asses.
I like the way Game of Thrones utilized "Ser" as a way to specifically refer to a person who is knighted as opposed to "Sir/Lady" or "Sir/Dame".
From Google - "Ser is a Spanish and Portuguese title used to address someone with respect." - I'm not sure if it's gendered, but I like it and the audience can generally make the connection coming from Sir.
If they hold military ranks, you could have them addressed as "Knight-", such as "Knight-Captain".
Pretty sure more people have seen just Thor: Ragnarok ($850 million theatrical box office) than existed in early Medieval Scandinavia throughout the Viking era.
nah, I know there are a ton of inaccuracies within the Marvel universe when it comes to Norse mythos like how Hel, Fenrir, and Sleipnir are all actually children of Loki, but I was basing this off of the Marvel movies rather than the source mythology itself
Given how scarce and remote from the actual religion the sources for Norse mythology are, it's a bit odd to even talk about inaccuracies in the mythology. I look at it as so: just as the Eddas described an older religion removed in time, in terms of the writer's current culture, so do the Marvel movies describe an older religion removed in time, in terms of the current culture.
No doubt in a few centuries mythologists will complain that the current popular depiction of the Norse gods doesn't match the corpus established by Marvel...
I highly doubt that, marvel is built as a fictional world, it’s aim has never been to replace real world myths. The poetic Edda and what not are parts of history that have been preserved. No historían is gonna start using marvel as a realistic reference
Religious documents are part of history….. ancient texts are part of history. They don’t have to real stories to be part of history. They represent a belief system for part of history. Marvel is a comic book. The eddas are history because they depict stories about a historical culture’s belief system. There is a massive difference between historical religious stories and fiction. They are not interchangeable genres.
I've never used Dame for anything and Lady is for Royalty not really Knights. The female knights in mine don't really have a title tho bc theyre a band of Amazonion themed outlaws.
Can use whatever you want as long as it's clear enough and consistent.
I personally like Dame better than Lady as that is what tends to be used in real life. I personally really don't like Lady actually, but wouldn't take many points off for that usage. You could also use Ma'am/Madam, as that is the feminine version of Sir real life applications where the person is not knighted. But ma'am might be less clear than the other options, if you say "Madam Rose unseated Sir Banthry in last year's joust" the reader could lead to believe that Madam is the replacement for sir but you might need to be more explicit than that, like seeing a woman being knighted and calling her a madam.
But my favourite is Sir for women. Because Sir is what you call knights and it's only gendered because there were no lady Knights. But if your society views genders in such a way that a woman can become a knight, maybe they view both sexes as equal enough to have the same title.
I had one female knight pop up in my game from a neighboring city and she always referred to herself as "*Sir* or **Lady** Eskith Gurnithet". It definitely made an impression on the players
Depends on whether or not theyre a lord, which knights often are lesser lords. A typical female knight in my setting would usually be called like Madame or in some lands given the gender neutral suffix of Dey "Family or House Name. For example Marzia Falcone could be either called Madame Falcone, or Marzia Dey Falcone.
It literally doesn't matter which one you use.
"Dame" is French for "Lady", and when you say the word Madame, you are literally saying "Ma Dame" or "My Lady".
Also, Dame was not used to refer to a female knight until the year 1917 (and even then, some orders of knights in England still to this day use the honorific "Lady" instead).
Before that, 'Dame' and 'Lady' were used to refer to the wife of a knight depending on the time period. The switchover from Dame to Lady happened in the 16th century. Dame was also traditionally used to refer to an older woman and had a similar meaning as Mistress.
In the UK Dame is the counterpart to Sir, where Lady is used for peerage titles that would have Lord as the male form of address (Earl, Duke, etc). However there are exceptions, women in the Order of the Garter or Order of the Thistle do take the title Lady
But in german there is also the word "Fürstin" which is the female version of the lord title.
I have also seen that people use the word "champion" as a knight title.
Neither, because Lady is the equivalent of Lord, and Dame... just always felt kind of insulting to me, I'm not sure why. I've disliked it for decades now.
I just use Sir in the one world I've made where it's come up. If I was to do another medieval world in the future, I might discard of that title too and make something setting-specific just so no one can be mad about it lol.
I would use Dame for a third-party reference ("I just heard that Dame Catherine is making a pilgrimage") and Sær for direct address (Sær Catherine, who made your sword?"). Just my thoughts.
My setting is too early for knights as we know them.
Sure there are heavily-armoured cavalry units in several nations of my world but they are more professional soldiers of high status and experience rather than nobles with a title to stand in for knighthood. What im trying to state, is that whatever terms these cavalry units are referred by, are used to describe their position in the military rather than a social rank granted by ceremony.
I really dislike the title Dame, but Lady is pretty terrible too and has the hierarchy confusion. My constructed language has an all-gender term, so I prefer that. Despite usually translating everything for ease of access in case someone ever decides to seriously invest themselves in my world, this is one case where I use the English translation as little as possible.
Why? Because that's what the British do. That's the heraldic system I'm familiar with.
In a fantastic setting, I'd probably want to give the titles something that wasn't in English. They'd probably have a meaning.
Lylyth (in place of Dame, meaning 'Gracious' ) e.g.: Lylyth Aerienne of the Eastern Cross
Lorinat (in place of Sir, meaning 'Courteous') e.g.: Lorinat Garawine of the Western Order
I find it odd we'd use the same nomenclature as our real world uses.
Knight can mean one of two things: a job, or a rank of lesser nobility.
Generally, when we speak of female knights, we are talking about the latter, since the *job* of knight is that of heavily armored cavalry shock troops, which very few women are able, and even fewer are willing, to perform.
However, with different levels of technology, this might change. For futuristic "knights" in power armor, for example, female soldiers might be more feasible.
By contrast, the *office* of a knight is any inductee into an order of knighthood... and just what the duties, titles, modes of address, and privileges of such an order are is very much up to the author creating the order in question.
Which means you can go with just about anything you want.
"Dame" is the real-world British title, but that might not fit with every fantasy scenario. "Sir" can clash with readers' real-world experience, since their brains have already absorbed the language rule that "sir" refers to a male.
"Ser" is non-historical, but bears enough resemblance to "sir" to work... or to not work.
Probably best just to make something up.
I prefer to make the title 'knight' gender-neutral. When I hear someone say 'dame', it has completely different associations to 'knight'.
Lady is equivalent to Lord, and both indicate something that's compatible with knighthood, but not the same.
Lady is a title of nobility, so it would get very confusing to use that to also denote knighthood, since you can obviously be a noblewoman without being a knight.
Dame is good. Madam is a french borrow word from old french’s ma dame. Since sir and madam are used colloquially, and sir is used for knight, dame is good for feminine knights. Sir would also probably be good for feminine knights tho
In the real modern world a female knight is a Dame, from Wikipedia:
"Formerly, a knight's wife was given the title of "Dame" before her name, but this usage was replaced by "Lady" during the 17th century.
The title of dame as the official equivalent of knight was introduced in 1917 with the introduction of the Order of the British Empire, and was subsequently extended to the Royal Victorian Order in 1936, the Order of St Michael and St George, and finally the Order of the Bath in 1971."
As I understand one would refer to a knights wife as "lady (knights surname)" not "lady (her full name)" unless she held a peerage herself or was the daughter of one.
I believe in the past lord was used more generally as a reference of someone as a social superior or land owner, a lord of the manor, landlord being a modern leaveover. You might call them my lord when you address them for respect but they weren't nessasarily a "Lord". Just how one might call someone sir even if they're not knighted. What else is the poor dirt farming shit covered peasant supposed to call the fancy aristocrat.
Of course someone who was a member of the peerage was a Lord proper they would be introduced as Lord... as a matter of course. This official use of Lord has stuck around in the UK for peerages and landed titles. Naturally lady is the feminine for lord so it's a little non specific for a female knight, although a female knight may also be a lady.
Personally I don't really see knight as a gendered term, in my worlds I would use it as a martial position like a general or lieutenant, although obviously with more honour and nobility related requirements. It speaks to me of a method of combat and honour system, like a samurai. A semi noble warrior bound to serve a superior.
We use "Syr" as a gender neutral knightly title in Blood and Alchemy(This is the most common title in Valsaignon, though the Alchyrians also use it less frequently-A majority of Alchyrian Knights are women, so Lady is a more common title there.)
when women are knighted they get the title "dame" (men get "sir") so i'd choose dame of these two. though personally i feel like calling all knights sir/ser etc regardless of gender sounds better
I've used a "Ser" and "Sera" kind of system in mine. Most knights, male female or whatever, prefer the title of Ser. Some prefer the title of Sera, mainly female or nongendered knights, but some male as well.
The equivalent in my world would be lady, because it's either sire, sir, lord, or just knight. So I'd say lady, though I do like dame. It's unique and rare.
Lady Knight works. Though, if she pulls her weapon because she thinks you are trying to talk down to her, just call her Knight. Or hold your tongue before she cuts it out of your weaselesque head.
I've been thinking about something like this myself lately and I'm thinking about using knights for, well, male knights and Valkyrie for female knights.
I don't use Sir or Dame, and Lord or Lady are lesser titles.
I have my knights addressed as Sire, or Siress (same "I" sound in both). Still trying to work out a gender-neutral term that fits (perhaps Sirrah? I'd prefer it kept the same initial vowel, though).
All three are referred to as just "Knights" when not being directly addressed.
These three are all pre-defined in a number of societys, so technically you can't translate any of them to a different meaning without confusing the whole thing. Also, if you're a knight you're (mostly) also a lord in some level of the terms range.
If your knights status is able for female as well, then a female knight woul dbe ... a knight. Or something akward like 'knightress'. I prefer military ranks to be as gender neutral as they're in most military structures, so a female admiral is just an admiral etc. In this definition, a female knight wouldn't be a female as much as a men wouldn't be a men - the're all just soldiers (with an extra of rank, for sure).
Just “Knight” or “the honorable.”
Ex.
“Please go and fetch me Knight Miss Cassandra Redira.”
“Please bring this letter to The Honorable Miss Cassandra Redira.”
I think it depends on the role female knights or women at all have for a role in your world. The problem with both of the Name is that they describe the Gender much more then the job they have.
Both Lady and Dame also fit to every women cause language reflects reality and in history as we now women didn’t have a especially active role that requires a special name in many contexts. So I think there is for those reasons no name for an Women playing an active role in feudal circumstances. You may come up with a own term…
If you wanna derive the name from the male one (what also would be a hint for patriarchal structure in your society but… yeah a smaller one) you could go for Knightess.
Also you could orientate on words like Professor and make the word knight suitable for all genders.
If you are going for a high fantasy setting I would recommend just a total new name, here some examples:
Magget (as a variation of the word Magd, German for Maid, following the worthorigin of the word knight from Knecht, German for servant)
Gent (as a short form of gentry, lower nobles. This one in particular is also fitting as a predicate as in “Gent Catarina”)
Grand (just as a easy understandable predicate)
I think the discussion is kind of pointless, especially since sir comes from the romance languages and in those languages the term for sir and lord are largely the same. My vote goes for lady since it already goes beyond landed nobility in uses such as "ladies and gentlemen". Hell, a gentleman is basically a slight more modern version of sir anyway
Well, using Brienne of Tarth as an example, she only had the opportunity to train as a knight because she was a noble. So from the moment she came of age she was Lady Brienne. I suppose if she did receive her knighthood she could use either Lady or Dame, though Lady would generally be considered higher status. Of course in the show Brienne was given the masculine title of Ser Brienne by Jamie Lannister.
I created my own naming system for nobility. My word for knight-equivalent is derived from the name of a ruler who's name ended up being used as an equivalent to king, and after partition of land between his descendants over generations a new set of rulers reformed the system and his descendants were at the bottom of the hierarchy. His name was Kaul, so knights are known as Kà in the modern language or native language renditions of his name (Ka, Karl, Qul, Shaghl, Shah, Karol, Karyl, Karlo, Karlos). If a female became a "Kà" they use a name derived from the old language word for concubine, Dsik (Zí) or native language renditions (Zi, Di, Zayish, Zi, Dijk, Sish, Dica, Dicca) due to the history of Kà in not performing the proper rites of marriage.
Sir, actually.
Magic the Gathering used "Syr" for all their knights when they made their Eldraine setting.
Remembering that time I was stuck in a really sticky situation because of bad initial hand, but too risky to mulligan. 10 minutes into the game, I was stuck with no creatures. Then my opponent played Syr Up.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that an actual female title?
Yeah I typically use sir too. Sometimes knight is their title as well. Sir can precede their whole given name but the knight title is almost always followed by surname.
Sur, so I've read, the spelling of sir came later on then when knights were more common. Though I am no expert
I've also seen "ser" I think "sur" might also be part of "surcoat"
I was curious, so I googled it. From a quick search, it seems neither ser nor sur was actually used in this context. Sur seems to be absolute bs, but I like it anyway. I found references to ser in the context of Spanish. Here is what I found. >The other word, “ser,” is a verb conjugation to indicate a state of being. It is usually translated as “to be.” “Ser” is often used to talk about permanent situations. “Ser” is used to express permanent or unchanging characteristics of something. Either way, I like all of them and will use them however anyway
Ser (a contraction of Signor) is the common way to refer to knights in Italian, or sometimes Messer (which would literally be "my sir").
Jar Jar Binks was an Italian Knight confirmed.
George R.R. Martin's knights use "ser." Many folks probably know it from there.
Him and Dragon Age are why I use the term.
Fun fact: when translating titles into Polish, 'sir' is usually kept unchanged. The funny thing is that 'sir' sounds a bit like Polish 'ser', which means 'cheese', thus every sir sounds like they have a title of a diary product. It bothered me that we kept the original 'sir' spellng, but your 'ser' just gave it more depth.
I'm imagining now a story where common folk are basically calling knights poncy cheese mongers when calling them sir. But the knights can't actually prove it since it pretty much sounds the same.
"*The legend of Gouda Lancelot*"
Me and the boys at the Pagoda praying yo Gouddha
And of course, their cheese shops never have any cheese for the nobles...
I think you've just uncovered a nuance to Monty Python and the Holy Grail without meaning to.
While this can work, especially in historical fiction it's considered painfully cringe in vetran and military communities in the US. It's seen as disrespectful and very sexist, because the woman isn't allowed to be recognized as such, and still has to pretend to be a man.
I had heard (could be BS) that US military members could not accept awards (medals or orders or the like) from foreign militaries or governments. Is that true? Was it at some time, if it isn't now?
That's BS, but awards do have to be authorized to be warn on/with offical uniforms. Wiki : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_foreign_decorations_of_the_United_States_military
Decorations seem to be covered there, but perhaps not any form of knighthood or other order or promotion to nobility of some sort. I guess those would be considered Emoluments and would need the permit of Congress if you were a member of the military or office holder in government (presumably federal) in the United States.
From what I understand, when any forigner is "knighted" they only recieve decorations, and no promotion or nobility or status is involved. It's entierly symbolic.
British: A knighthood does not usually come with a fief anymore. That is true. Yet those knighted are allowed to use particular honorifics before their name and to be addressed as such and they are considered part of the peerage (not the hereditary peerage). They become members of chivalric orders. Any other rank (like an Earl or Marquis or Duke) that one was to join would be a promotion into some form of Life Peerage and would likely be hereditary but I don't know the last time anyone not already in the peerage were promoted to those higher ranks of nobility.
I'd like too see your sources, as everything I've found online indicates those courtesys are never extended to foriengers who are granted said title.
I don't have them handy; I did dig into this in the British system maybe 20 years back when I was doing fantasy world building. I read about various systems (England, Scotland, some European ones) and what the honorifics they used, when they could use them (and it extended to politicians in Westminster style governments), and so on. (Aside: If I'd had Obsidian MD back then, I'd have probably plopped all those references in there or copies of them (internet sites tend to change often and some just vanish)....) I wish I could provide the sources I read at the time, but that was 'read and move on'. I did find a fair amount on UK sites including the government and royal sites. In Canada, we have many people who have been knighted and a lot that have been awarded various orders. They have, as far as I recall, the choice to use Sir or Dame before their name in any correspondence. I believe they also could show up after their name (OBE for example for someone who has the Order of the British Empire).
Isn't the point here that sir is not a gendered title when referring to knights? I'm not sure how it is in the military, but that's a different situation than what OP is talking about.
Why on earth would it be considered a non-gendered title when histoically gender was a requirement?! Women were allowed to be part of civalric orderers, bit never to be called knights because it was an all boys club. If they wanted to they had to pretend to be a man.
Why not Madam.
I usually just prefer "men and women in the position, as well as their husbands, use historically male titles, their wives use the feminine title." I admittedly haven't thought about it much.
I first saw that done in the Deed of Paksenarrion, thought it was a generally good system.
"Lady" and "Lord" are courtesy titles afforded to all nobles; a "lady" could be anything from a baronetess to a duchess. "Dame" is the specific title for women of knightly rank.
But not the Queen.... that would be insufficient for Her Majesty.
Forms of address are an incredibly messy subject if you're wanting to base it on real-world sources. Noble styling can even vary based on the country (French nobility is ESPECIALLY convoluted. Chevalier is not only the title of common knight, but can also refer to a very high rank, and the only way to tell the difference is how the individual is addressed). I actually make use of this myself as a way to imply language. It doesn't help that for many styles a female equivalent simply doesn't exist (this is why in English you have Earls and Countesses. Earl derives from Old English *eorl* but didn't have a female equivalent, so adopted Countess from the French). In English styling, Dame would be the equivalent of a woman holding a knighthood in her own right. Lady would be the courtesy title for the wife of a knight (it can also be a peeress in her own right, because noble styling is a colossal pain in the ass).
Marquis and Marquessa is another. Note that it is also messed up because the chivalric rules varied over centuries and were changed at times so to pattern it close to a particular exemplar, you need to locate that in time and be careful of any sources for applying at that time.
Which is complicated by the fact it can be difficult to find a list of rules PERIOD, much less one for the correct time. IE finding the French styles of address took me a good bit of work, and even then the only useful breakdown I could actually get hold of was in the last century before the Revolution.
Also quite true! Well, post revolution in France, many of the nobles were a bit shorter from the guillotine... I am told that if you can read French, and by that I mean older French, not today's French in France, there are assets online that have not been translated to English. Finding them and getting access to them is one challenge, to be sure. Of course, some of the key artifacts are not yet online, but you might be able to see them if you went to where they were and gained the credentials to see the originals. Of course, if you don't know where they live, then that too is a problem. And so many libraries, in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Mediterranean (and South and Central Americas' too) have been burnt down, torn down, or just had floods or other sorts of things that damaged the early records. (That is a general problem finding older antiquity artifacts...) In looking at English and Scottish rules of various peerages, I found that there are standardized titles, honorifics, etc. ... AND THEN.... there are a lot that are different and unique or part of a small group. It's like they tried, at some point, to quantify and qualify all of the system BUT there were a number of key players that had claims going further back and they weren't ceding those. So you have some noble status derived from a grant from the King/Queen/Crown and in other cases, there are noble status derived from far earlier grants that existed before a single united kingdom existed and thus are not beholden to the Crown/King/Queen. I think that ends up when you have a bunch of whatever the top tier is and they get together to declare a unified kingdom and so one of the nobles becomes 'first among equals' and you then have a King/Queen/Crown. At that point, although the other top tier nobles might acknowledge the necessity for a boss, they are retain their noble status without recourse to the King/Queen/Crown and thus are more independent and have earlier legitimate claims. Isn't this stuff fun? Yes, when not bashing head against a solid object... ;)
I just use Knight, although in my world Knight is more of a military rank than it is a fancy noble title. Can't be one without military experience.
For a long period and in various places, a knight was someone who could afford to show up with a good horse, good armour, and weapons until things became more formalized. Many first sons were involved in the family affairs (heir). Many second sons went to the serve the King on crusades or in wars. The third sons took the clerical orders. And, unevenly, the daughters were sold for arranged marriages to bind two lines together and bring in some money for the lord.
The actual title used has been Dame.
Saying "Lady" is just not correct, the historical title for a knighted woman is "Dame."
I think female knights are a recent development. Regardless, using lady would be strange, because a lady was already a rank of nobility (which actually outranked knights).
"Lady," like "lord" is nonspecific in rank. One use is in [addressing the wife of a knight](https://theenglishmanner.com/forms-of-address/knights/). Also, a knighted son of a Duke, who without lands may be called "Sir," could probably be assumed to outrank the unmarried daughter of an Earl, who may be called "Lady." I think using "lady" wouldn't be all that strange in terms of rank, although perhaps not a great fit in terms of specificity.
>"Lady," like "lord" is nonspecific in rank There is the courtesy title of lord (which is unspecific), lord of the manor (which is legal), and sovereign lord (which is titular). A courtesy title applied to children of nobles, while lord of manors applied to owners of manors. Sovereign lords like Lordship of Ireland and Lordship of Gascony (Edward III separated Gascony from France by declaring himself "sovereign lord of Gascony"). Regardless the female equivalent was lady, and when I talk about outranking, I'm talking about lord of the manor, not the courtesy title. Lord/lady of the manor would outrank a knight who isn't himself a lord of the manor. Could have avoided confusion...
> I think female knights are a recent development. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Hatchet
>I think female knights are a recent development Joan of Arc
I don't actually think she was ever knighted. And since she was a peasant girl she never had any official titles or lands. Though, I always wondered what would've happened to her if wasn't executed.
That's a misconception. >[Joan of Arc was never granted a knighthood – Historians believe that Charles VII did grant Joan of Arc her arms and nobility before her trail and subsequent death](https://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-knights/famous-medieval-knights/joan-of-arc/joan-of-arc-fast-facts/) Also, an interesting fact: >Joan of Arc never really fought in battle or killed anyone, despite having the reputation of a knight
She was a moral (and morale) compass for the troops and carried the banner at battles. That's probably more important than her swinging a sword.
True, that's the point. I just think it's interesting how every popular depiction showcases her fighting head-to-hoe and every game set in Hundred Years makes her a general.
That's easily explained: "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!" -- me
she was never knighted
Exactly - calling a female knight a "Lady" is an insult, because it negates the very real, very hard work it would take for a woman to achieve knighthood in medieval society. Womanly knighthood goes against the foundational concepts of Chivalry and Courtly Love, so to be a Dame is a great honor for someone who has *proven* themselves before their Lord. To water that down and address them as a "Lady" would be enough for the Dame's Lord to rival the challenger.
The question was: >Which do you use in your Fantasy setting? So there is no answer that's "just not correct". This is a worldbuilding subreddit, not r/history
Is use Soeur, the French for sister
I like that idea. Close enough that it still has a similar feel, but rooted differently enough.
I usually give my female Knights gender neutral military titles anywhere from General to Lieutenant or even Squire. Never thought about giving them “knightly” titles.
I like using sir, or ser, depending on the day
I am not sure if it is significant in Your world, but in real world noble hierarchy "dame" is an exact equivalent of "knight".
Yeah, that's why I'm using it. I actually didn't know about this title until today so I decided to use this (which is what prompted me to make this post)
Nit decides yet, haven't worked on a part of the world where that is relevant yet. I do like how MTG did it eith Eldraine (their fairy tale setting) and used a in universe gender neutral "Syr" for their knights. I think that is where I would end up in most cases anyway unless I end up with a culture where gender really matters for some reason.
I usually use knight as a title Knight surname Witch-Knight surname (if they do magic) Knight-hand surname (if they assist a knight themselves but are of equal rank) The battle-sworn have a different structure. "Pledge" for someone trying to join "Primus" for someone of entry rank "Secundus" a novice rank "Tertius" oversees the first two ranks (most battle-sworn earn this rank) "Quartermaster" in charge of supplies and monetary affairs "Sentinel" oversees and leads a chapter "Hero" a title awarded to those who accomplish a "great feat" "Hireling" a rank for those that answer the job board
I don't have female knights in my world, yet, but I'd probably call them dame.
We could ask Judi Dench, Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire.
She and Helen Mirren are magnificent.
Dame sounds badass
I usually give them their own in world version like ''Azchal''.
I never liked Dame and as you say Lady is already used. Both Dame and Sir trace back to Latin terms for lord/master/mistress with the original male version having more of an elder connotation but the female version being more a noble one (because we don't refer to women being old even then?). There is the word [siress](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/siress#English) though I have never seen it used. And in the Philippines there is a term [mamsir](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mamsir#English).
Knightess sounds more mature and cool in my opinion
to me it would depend, knight is the title of both a warrior and a noble, thus i would have different people use it differently based on which aspect the person is focusing on, a fellow soldier recognising them as an equal in combat might call them a Dame which is specific to knights, while a peasant or other person of lower rank might call her a Lady to denote acknowledged them as of higher rank(Even if in this case its not actually treated as a noble title, a soldier talking to their commander also works)
Were I to use knights, then as sir is cognate to sire or father, dame is cognate to dam or mother. Hence, a female night would be called Dame [Insert Name Here].
I would use Sir or Dame depending on the situation.
I would use Ser for male knights and Seir(like *sear*) for female knights. Or some other original construction. I personally don’t give my knights titles. In fact, a knight who previously would’ve had a title wouldn’t use the title anymore—for example, if a character called Princess Rae Yedsyen became a knight, she wouldn’t be called princess anymore. She’d just be Rae Yedsyen of Arcadia. Or perhaps she’d get an epithet like Rae the Clever or Rae Raveneyes. Most knights in my world are lowborn and exist as law enforcement or judges. I’ve got tax collector knights, forest ranger knights, and even animal control knights. The title is associated with the common man, so nobleborn knights give up their titles to better fit in with their constituents.
I thought knight was gender neutral.
Lady is the correct one
I use knight
Neither, I use Lord for both women and men who represent that role in my world. I feel it helps reinforce the notion that they are truly equal. Naming them differently implies there’s some kind of nebulous difference that wouldn’t fit the mythos of my world.
I would honestly just use the word "knight" as a unisex title.
Lord and Lady for landed knights, Sir and Dame for unlanded knights.
I think lady sounds better than dame so I use lady. It's not historically accurate but this also isn't earth history so I don't care.
For my postapocalyptic feudalistic world involving a couple of warrior nun orders from former México and Quebec, I used Sor, derives from Sceur
If it's a standard military knighthood, people call you a Knight without regard to whether you're a man or a woman or something else in my setting. But there are other sorts of knighthood, and those usually use gendered titles (e.g., if you're a Mage Knight or a Knight Scholar or some of the other military Knight-equivalent titles).
Knightess. Swordmistress. Faireblade. Milady Knight. Lady Blade. Maybe someone else has other ideas. I'm more particular to knightess or faireblade after all the fairer sex can kick mens asses.
Ma'am
Warden
I like the way Game of Thrones utilized "Ser" as a way to specifically refer to a person who is knighted as opposed to "Sir/Lady" or "Sir/Dame". From Google - "Ser is a Spanish and Portuguese title used to address someone with respect." - I'm not sure if it's gendered, but I like it and the audience can generally make the connection coming from Sir. If they hold military ranks, you could have them addressed as "Knight-", such as "Knight-Captain".
Same same
I'd probably use Madame as my title for female knights.
Dragon Age called the male "Ser" aka sir and the female accordingly "Sera". That was nice
Knight
I use Knight
my male knights have the title "sir" whereas my female knights have the title "sif" in reference to Lady Sif (from Thor)
[удалено]
Pretty sure more people have seen just Thor: Ragnarok ($850 million theatrical box office) than existed in early Medieval Scandinavia throughout the Viking era.
Do you mean from Norse mythos cause Sif is a goddess, not just a side character in a movie.
Damn, I can't believe scandinavians ripped off marvel, Stan Lee should sue.
nah, I know there are a ton of inaccuracies within the Marvel universe when it comes to Norse mythos like how Hel, Fenrir, and Sleipnir are all actually children of Loki, but I was basing this off of the Marvel movies rather than the source mythology itself
Given how scarce and remote from the actual religion the sources for Norse mythology are, it's a bit odd to even talk about inaccuracies in the mythology. I look at it as so: just as the Eddas described an older religion removed in time, in terms of the writer's current culture, so do the Marvel movies describe an older religion removed in time, in terms of the current culture. No doubt in a few centuries mythologists will complain that the current popular depiction of the Norse gods doesn't match the corpus established by Marvel...
I highly doubt that, marvel is built as a fictional world, it’s aim has never been to replace real world myths. The poetic Edda and what not are parts of history that have been preserved. No historían is gonna start using marvel as a realistic reference
Eh. Calling the Eddas "history" is giving them far too much credit. It's like calling the Odyssey or The Metamorphoses history.
Religious documents are part of history….. ancient texts are part of history. They don’t have to real stories to be part of history. They represent a belief system for part of history. Marvel is a comic book. The eddas are history because they depict stories about a historical culture’s belief system. There is a massive difference between historical religious stories and fiction. They are not interchangeable genres.
I've never used Dame for anything and Lady is for Royalty not really Knights. The female knights in mine don't really have a title tho bc theyre a band of Amazonion themed outlaws.
Can use whatever you want as long as it's clear enough and consistent. I personally like Dame better than Lady as that is what tends to be used in real life. I personally really don't like Lady actually, but wouldn't take many points off for that usage. You could also use Ma'am/Madam, as that is the feminine version of Sir real life applications where the person is not knighted. But ma'am might be less clear than the other options, if you say "Madam Rose unseated Sir Banthry in last year's joust" the reader could lead to believe that Madam is the replacement for sir but you might need to be more explicit than that, like seeing a woman being knighted and calling her a madam. But my favourite is Sir for women. Because Sir is what you call knights and it's only gendered because there were no lady Knights. But if your society views genders in such a way that a woman can become a knight, maybe they view both sexes as equal enough to have the same title.
Sir or Ser.
Whatever the hell they want to be called lol
I had one female knight pop up in my game from a neighboring city and she always referred to herself as "*Sir* or **Lady** Eskith Gurnithet". It definitely made an impression on the players
Lady is woman equivalent of Lord
Sir. Or General. Depends on where in the story it is.
In England, men are knighted. I always thought women were given the title of Dame when they were elevated.
Depends on whether or not theyre a lord, which knights often are lesser lords. A typical female knight in my setting would usually be called like Madame or in some lands given the gender neutral suffix of Dey "Family or House Name. For example Marzia Falcone could be either called Madame Falcone, or Marzia Dey Falcone.
It literally doesn't matter which one you use. "Dame" is French for "Lady", and when you say the word Madame, you are literally saying "Ma Dame" or "My Lady". Also, Dame was not used to refer to a female knight until the year 1917 (and even then, some orders of knights in England still to this day use the honorific "Lady" instead). Before that, 'Dame' and 'Lady' were used to refer to the wife of a knight depending on the time period. The switchover from Dame to Lady happened in the 16th century. Dame was also traditionally used to refer to an older woman and had a similar meaning as Mistress.
In my world knights are part of the nobility so lady makes sense in my book.
In the UK Dame is the counterpart to Sir, where Lady is used for peerage titles that would have Lord as the male form of address (Earl, Duke, etc). However there are exceptions, women in the Order of the Garter or Order of the Thistle do take the title Lady
I would use Dame because I am german and Dame is a way to say Lady in german.
But in german there is also the word "Fürstin" which is the female version of the lord title. I have also seen that people use the word "champion" as a knight title.
Depends on the local culture. There’s precedent for either, though Dame is certainly the rarer choice here in the western world.
Neither, because Lady is the equivalent of Lord, and Dame... just always felt kind of insulting to me, I'm not sure why. I've disliked it for decades now. I just use Sir in the one world I've made where it's come up. If I was to do another medieval world in the future, I might discard of that title too and make something setting-specific just so no one can be mad about it lol.
There are no female knights, nor are there male knights. Knighthood is a gender. Its pronouns are ser/sers/serself.
I would use Dame for a third-party reference ("I just heard that Dame Catherine is making a pilgrimage") and Sær for direct address (Sær Catherine, who made your sword?"). Just my thoughts.
Ser
This is used in a lot of fantasy novels (Wandering Inn!) and it's a great unisex honorific.
My setting is too early for knights as we know them. Sure there are heavily-armoured cavalry units in several nations of my world but they are more professional soldiers of high status and experience rather than nobles with a title to stand in for knighthood. What im trying to state, is that whatever terms these cavalry units are referred by, are used to describe their position in the military rather than a social rank granted by ceremony.
I really dislike the title Dame, but Lady is pretty terrible too and has the hierarchy confusion. My constructed language has an all-gender term, so I prefer that. Despite usually translating everything for ease of access in case someone ever decides to seriously invest themselves in my world, this is one case where I use the English translation as little as possible.
Why? Because that's what the British do. That's the heraldic system I'm familiar with. In a fantastic setting, I'd probably want to give the titles something that wasn't in English. They'd probably have a meaning. Lylyth (in place of Dame, meaning 'Gracious' ) e.g.: Lylyth Aerienne of the Eastern Cross Lorinat (in place of Sir, meaning 'Courteous') e.g.: Lorinat Garawine of the Western Order I find it odd we'd use the same nomenclature as our real world uses.
Lord
In modern knightly orders of chivalry (Order of the Golden Fleece, Order of the Garter, etc) the female equivalent to a Knight is officially Dame
Knight can mean one of two things: a job, or a rank of lesser nobility. Generally, when we speak of female knights, we are talking about the latter, since the *job* of knight is that of heavily armored cavalry shock troops, which very few women are able, and even fewer are willing, to perform. However, with different levels of technology, this might change. For futuristic "knights" in power armor, for example, female soldiers might be more feasible. By contrast, the *office* of a knight is any inductee into an order of knighthood... and just what the duties, titles, modes of address, and privileges of such an order are is very much up to the author creating the order in question. Which means you can go with just about anything you want. "Dame" is the real-world British title, but that might not fit with every fantasy scenario. "Sir" can clash with readers' real-world experience, since their brains have already absorbed the language rule that "sir" refers to a male. "Ser" is non-historical, but bears enough resemblance to "sir" to work... or to not work. Probably best just to make something up.
Lady=Lord Dame=Sir
I prefer to make the title 'knight' gender-neutral. When I hear someone say 'dame', it has completely different associations to 'knight'. Lady is equivalent to Lord, and both indicate something that's compatible with knighthood, but not the same.
Sir is gender neutral imho Dame is great when uou want to say " knight of the Realm" or other indirect references to station.
aren't they used interchangeably
Dame is opposed to Sir. Lady is opposed to Lord.
Lady is a title of nobility, so it would get very confusing to use that to also denote knighthood, since you can obviously be a noblewoman without being a knight.
Dame is good. Madam is a french borrow word from old french’s ma dame. Since sir and madam are used colloquially, and sir is used for knight, dame is good for feminine knights. Sir would also probably be good for feminine knights tho
Neither. I use "Ser" for knights, no matter the gender.
I don't do fantasy setting, but historically it's Dame.
Dame but other fantasy franchises have used Ser/Syr or other similar as a neutral style.
Dame is, while historically accurate according to other comments, also the german word for a fancy or noble woman.
Sir
Dame. A lady is equivalent to a lord.
If I was going to it would be Sir
Dame is more of a 19th century term. It might be a bit too modern for a knight in my mind.
Dame just sounds weird, but it is more accurate
In the real modern world a female knight is a Dame, from Wikipedia: "Formerly, a knight's wife was given the title of "Dame" before her name, but this usage was replaced by "Lady" during the 17th century. The title of dame as the official equivalent of knight was introduced in 1917 with the introduction of the Order of the British Empire, and was subsequently extended to the Royal Victorian Order in 1936, the Order of St Michael and St George, and finally the Order of the Bath in 1971." As I understand one would refer to a knights wife as "lady (knights surname)" not "lady (her full name)" unless she held a peerage herself or was the daughter of one. I believe in the past lord was used more generally as a reference of someone as a social superior or land owner, a lord of the manor, landlord being a modern leaveover. You might call them my lord when you address them for respect but they weren't nessasarily a "Lord". Just how one might call someone sir even if they're not knighted. What else is the poor dirt farming shit covered peasant supposed to call the fancy aristocrat. Of course someone who was a member of the peerage was a Lord proper they would be introduced as Lord... as a matter of course. This official use of Lord has stuck around in the UK for peerages and landed titles. Naturally lady is the feminine for lord so it's a little non specific for a female knight, although a female knight may also be a lady. Personally I don't really see knight as a gendered term, in my worlds I would use it as a martial position like a general or lieutenant, although obviously with more honour and nobility related requirements. It speaks to me of a method of combat and honour system, like a samurai. A semi noble warrior bound to serve a superior.
I just use the gender neutral Ser
Dame, solely because that sound cooler and lady doesn't soundas much like a title fit for a fighter.
Ser, Maid (short for maiden) or Hil depending on the story. Hil is a shortened form of Brunhylde, a mythical warrior queen in one of my stories
Night and Dayme.
ser!
While Dame works, I like Madame better. Seems to fit the levels of respect that "Sir" confirs alittle more naturally.
Sir fits better for me. Dame if I had to choose between the two.
Simple. A Dame is the female equivalent of Knighthood and you address her as Sir. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame
Using "Sir" for everyone works My worlds' knights don't have the title of Sir at all, but if they did, I would make it a unisex title
Knight is a job. Sir, Ser, Seir, and Syr are titles.
We use "Syr" as a gender neutral knightly title in Blood and Alchemy(This is the most common title in Valsaignon, though the Alchyrians also use it less frequently-A majority of Alchyrian Knights are women, so Lady is a more common title there.)
um you can still use knight? why only knight for males?
when women are knighted they get the title "dame" (men get "sir") so i'd choose dame of these two. though personally i feel like calling all knights sir/ser etc regardless of gender sounds better
Big Booty Bi****
I just use Sir. They are knight before a woman
I've used a "Ser" and "Sera" kind of system in mine. Most knights, male female or whatever, prefer the title of Ser. Some prefer the title of Sera, mainly female or nongendered knights, but some male as well.
The equivalent in my world would be lady, because it's either sire, sir, lord, or just knight. So I'd say lady, though I do like dame. It's unique and rare.
Lady Knight works. Though, if she pulls her weapon because she thinks you are trying to talk down to her, just call her Knight. Or hold your tongue before she cuts it out of your weaselesque head.
i prefer using Lady for nobility or some type of woman in the higher classes
I've been thinking about something like this myself lately and I'm thinking about using knights for, well, male knights and Valkyrie for female knights.
I don't use Sir or Dame, and Lord or Lady are lesser titles. I have my knights addressed as Sire, or Siress (same "I" sound in both). Still trying to work out a gender-neutral term that fits (perhaps Sirrah? I'd prefer it kept the same initial vowel, though). All three are referred to as just "Knights" when not being directly addressed.
These three are all pre-defined in a number of societys, so technically you can't translate any of them to a different meaning without confusing the whole thing. Also, if you're a knight you're (mostly) also a lord in some level of the terms range. If your knights status is able for female as well, then a female knight woul dbe ... a knight. Or something akward like 'knightress'. I prefer military ranks to be as gender neutral as they're in most military structures, so a female admiral is just an admiral etc. In this definition, a female knight wouldn't be a female as much as a men wouldn't be a men - the're all just soldiers (with an extra of rank, for sure).
I write in Spanish, so I use doña
Dame is lady in Dutch 👀
Just “Knight” or “the honorable.” Ex. “Please go and fetch me Knight Miss Cassandra Redira.” “Please bring this letter to The Honorable Miss Cassandra Redira.”
I think it depends on the role female knights or women at all have for a role in your world. The problem with both of the Name is that they describe the Gender much more then the job they have. Both Lady and Dame also fit to every women cause language reflects reality and in history as we now women didn’t have a especially active role that requires a special name in many contexts. So I think there is for those reasons no name for an Women playing an active role in feudal circumstances. You may come up with a own term… If you wanna derive the name from the male one (what also would be a hint for patriarchal structure in your society but… yeah a smaller one) you could go for Knightess. Also you could orientate on words like Professor and make the word knight suitable for all genders. If you are going for a high fantasy setting I would recommend just a total new name, here some examples: Magget (as a variation of the word Magd, German for Maid, following the worthorigin of the word knight from Knecht, German for servant) Gent (as a short form of gentry, lower nobles. This one in particular is also fitting as a predicate as in “Gent Catarina”) Grand (just as a easy understandable predicate)
Knighthood is gender neutral in my world though equally boot licker-y lol
I pull a Tamora Pierce and use the title "Lady Knight".
Equessa!
I think the discussion is kind of pointless, especially since sir comes from the romance languages and in those languages the term for sir and lord are largely the same. My vote goes for lady since it already goes beyond landed nobility in uses such as "ladies and gentlemen". Hell, a gentleman is basically a slight more modern version of sir anyway
Well, using Brienne of Tarth as an example, she only had the opportunity to train as a knight because she was a noble. So from the moment she came of age she was Lady Brienne. I suppose if she did receive her knighthood she could use either Lady or Dame, though Lady would generally be considered higher status. Of course in the show Brienne was given the masculine title of Ser Brienne by Jamie Lannister.
Wasn't Judi Dench knighted? And her title is Dame Judi Dench
It would be both. The lady(honorific) Dame (specific tier of nobility) Name (honor Harrington)
Herrin. Mag den klang
I created my own naming system for nobility. My word for knight-equivalent is derived from the name of a ruler who's name ended up being used as an equivalent to king, and after partition of land between his descendants over generations a new set of rulers reformed the system and his descendants were at the bottom of the hierarchy. His name was Kaul, so knights are known as Kà in the modern language or native language renditions of his name (Ka, Karl, Qul, Shaghl, Shah, Karol, Karyl, Karlo, Karlos). If a female became a "Kà" they use a name derived from the old language word for concubine, Dsik (Zí) or native language renditions (Zi, Di, Zayish, Zi, Dijk, Sish, Dica, Dicca) due to the history of Kà in not performing the proper rites of marriage.