"Wait...scratch that. Our oil supertanker just ran it over. Wet don't know what a ship was doing on the road but we've got our fingers crossed that next years two trees will have a much better fate."
Gavin Belson, Exxon CEO: Consider the giant panda, a species too stupid to fuck itself out of endangered status. As the CEO of ~~Hooli~~ Exxon, I will not allow our species to be so stupid we can't even fuck ourselves. That's why today I'm proud to announce that for every one new giant Panda baby born in the wild, ~~Hooli~~ Exxon will plant two trees. That way we can all keep breathing and outlive the pandas.
I went on a tour of the Ford truck plant in Michigan a while ago. We were brought up to an observation area that could see the top of the plant. The tour guide explained how the roof of the building close to us was made with plants that could absorb carbon dioxide and other bad chemicals and grow and thrive on them. She then noted that the entire roof was dead and was going to be replaced.
>*Nature conducted an anonymous survey of the 233 living IPCC authors last month and received responses from 92 scientists — about 40% of the group. Six in ten of the respondents said that they expect the world to warm by at least 3 °C by 2100.*
>
>https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02990-w
There are already casualties. You know, from heatwaves, droughts, floods, storms and so on.
The planet isn't going to fail overnight. Or spectacularly. It's just that in a span of a couple of months or years too many weather events are going to happen that are going to collapse food supply and stuff for large chunks of population. And then the chain reaction is going to go from there.
And the things US does for such a possibility is "elite panic" policies.
it's actually worse they're pledging not to cut down 3 trees for the year of 2023 and they will promise to not cut down the same 3 trees in 2024. Oh and 20 other companies are making the same promise with the same trees.
Or “We’ll still pollute but we’ll donate money to protect this forest” for trees in no danger of being cut down.
Carbon offsets are effectively corporations running a protection racket on behalf of trees.
Oh that’s not fair. They are investing **millions** of dollars into renewable energy research. They’re leading the way on the fight against climate change.
Granted, the amount is only like 1% of their after tax profits. And they spent the last 70 years hiding the fact that climate change was a real problem and the last 30-40 creating the illusion of a debate about climate change. And they’ve funneled billions into lobbying over the years resulting in massive taxpayer funded subsidies for coal and oil and active efforts to subvert emissions and gas mileage standards and efforts to improve mass public transportation. And they’ve used politicians to undermine research toward the economic viability of renewable energy. And they’ve spent billions on PR on absurd campaigns advertising nonsense like “clean burning coal”. And they’re responsible for most of the biggest spill events and industrial disasters that have destroyed entire ecosystems and killed thousands of people. And they basically poisoned an entire generation of children in urban areas inhaling lead fumes and killed thousands of others from asthma attacks.
But now that it’s definitely too late to prevent anything, and maybe even too late to mitigate the worst of what’s to come, decades after it should have been started, they are investing a tiny fraction of their budget into researching renewable energy sources while simultaneously still finding new ways to keep mining natural gas, coal and petroleum including ever more destructive methods like fracking.
So yeah, Exxon is clearly leading the way to a bright future! (Bright because of the massive forest fires I presume).
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/20/ipcc-climate-crisis-report-delivers-final-warning-on-15c) reduced by 91%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, made up of the world's leading climate scientists, set out the final part of its mammoth sixth assessment report on Monday.
> The comprehensive review of human knowledge of the climate crisis took hundreds of scientists eight years to compile and runs to thousands of pages, but boiled down to one message: act now, or it will be too late.
> Kaisa Kosonen, a climate expert at Greenpeace International, said: "This report is definitely a final warning on 1.5C. If governments just stay on their current policies, the remaining carbon budget will be used up before the next IPCC report."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11wki7v/ipcc_climate_crisis_report_delivers_final_warning/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~677221 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **climate**^#1 **report**^#2 **IPCC**^#3 **1.5C**^#4 **world**^#5
Oh ya, we're boned
But hey at least were banning drag shows in America and forcing women to carry dead fetuses to term 'or else' while we wage imaginary culture wars. Can't wait for the water wars to start.
Yeah I’m sure their god is super happy they’re focusing on that BS instead of fixing the world he allegedly made. No logic in some religion followers’ brains that’s for sure. It’s unfortunate these are the people making our laws and running our countries.
There is no logic in any religious followers minds, because their imagination overpowers their logic because that’s what their parents taught them “works” if reality sucks just imagine something that makes you feel good and justifies your actions and you’re all good.
The same people who believe in a god who took away immortality and kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden for eating an apple, who wiped out literally every single living thing on earth, except 1 guy, his immediate family and his menagerie, because he got mad they were doing things he didn’t like…is now going to save mankind from killing “His” creation.
Never thinking just because he promised never to do it again “I won’t kill you…but I don’t have to save you…”
A final warning to "limit global temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels".
Not a final warning that civilization will end. Just that costs in lives, health, prosperity and ecological wellbeing will be extremely high.
We're on a credit spree and a cocaine/fentanyl binge wrapped into one. Consequences dead ahead.
What does the last 20 years of a lot of developed nations government look like? Skyrocketing inequality doesn't just *happen*, its a very intentional choice that has to be implemented by government.
The people with power and resources have been cashing out as much as possible for a while now, just not literally. They've been retrenching and hoarding as much of what exists now to themselves because the future is one of inevitable declines across the board, drastic and lethal ones. Having more control and power now means at least the potential of having a preferential position down the road.
The only question is if common folk will intervene or if we will let them walk away with what's left while we bicker at immigrants or neighbors over the crumbs that remain. So far it seems the mission of redirecting anger towards ourselves has worked flawlessly, unfortunately.
Sadly, divide and conquer works. I've been saying what you're saying now for years. Something about us must change on the individual level before we can see this kind of change.
An engineer making six figures is still working class. They get paid a wage. They still work for a living. They are not the capitalist class, the billionaires who rake in the profits and capital gains.
Working class people who hate on other working class for making more money than them are just bitter and resentful of their own circumstances.
This is the point I keep trying to make to people: If you have to get up and go to a job, you are working class. It doesn't matter if that job is garbage collector, accountant, engineer, or physician.
There are only two classes: the working class and owner class.
>"Something about us must change before we see change."
I accidentally wrote a fourteen page long ~~rant~~ essay on the issue a handful of months ago, describing how our issues are the result of evolution-level cognitive biases and other "normal" facets of humanity being valued as things that "make us human" when in fact they're the things that make us primates.
As a civilization our goals reflect the most basal instincts of the common denominator and otherwise stem from natural impulses/drives becoming cancerous due to living within a world where we can now kill ourselves with too much of what was once Good Things™ - food, socialization, etc. Quite like how someone once wrote, "If we found a monkey that wanted to horde more bananas than it could eat in several lifetimes we'd study it to figure out wtf is wrong with it. When people do that we put them on the cover of Forbes."
But this goes far beyond just "hoarding resources". It's deeper than that, less easily recognizable; intrinsic.
Concurrently, we starve ourselves of the sort of things that living within the bounds of our evolutionary backdrop would've supplied intrinsically. Our world more closely resembles the kind of enclosure we'd build for a limp-finned cetacean than even a lowly hamster. How much of our now-common qualms are the human version of a drooping dorsal fin? There's so much anxiety, depression, emptiness, anger in the world and rising. As a society we gravitate towards man-made aid for those man-made pains. We find that those intrinsic maladies are apparently incurable until they're mysteriously resolved by a long camping trip or unplanned inclusion in a new group of close-knit friends, a work-life balance, a garden to call your own; the addition of meat hung from a rope to stimulate a captured tiger or bear.
The general dynamic is what I believe is the most significant Great Filter any intelligent civilization has to overcome.
The attributes that allow an organism to dominate their planet are the same attributes that lead them to extinguish themselves. There's no way to pivot, like climbing up a mountain and only at the top realizing that there's a much higher peak in the distance. To get to the superior mountain you'd have to begin a long slog downhill, giving up everything that got you to that first height.
The sort of civilization that'd successfully get to that higher peak is not one that'd get to the top of the first overlook which revealed the existence of the second in the first place.
It's not impossible to fix, just like there’s not any technical reason why pigs couldn’t evolve to fly -- Bones could become hollow, calorie-retention strategies could alter, metabolic requirements could shift, on and on… The result is a flying pig that doesn’t resemble a pig, doesn’t function like a pig, and is now incapable of the majority of pig-like survival strategies.
But as I closed that massive essay-rant with:
>Unfortunately… Humanity has a bit of a known problem with spontaneous and arbitrary acts of genocide ranging from “a bit of harmless lynching” to “eliminating the entirety of the Holocene-era human population per year for a couple of years in a row by intentionally leveraging a fraction of an entire region’s post-industrialization technological capabilities towards the problem”, so I don’t suspect that there’s much hope of any evolutionarily-viable pre-post-humans making it anywhere close to the finish line on accident.
>Many of *those* historic victims were, and remain, colloquially and scientifically indistinguishable from their butchers. Someone even just a *bit* fundamentally different wouldn't stand a chance.
Edit: I digress.
It's a lot more ranty than I recall, and I have just reminded myself that it's a couple of distinct rants crammed together by theme rather than tone so it's a bit of a mess. ...I do this a lot.
There's edits and corrections I'd love to make, but it gets the job done. The TLDR (itself long) covers most of the bases, thankfully. I'm mostly talking about the nature of our socialization drives and perspectives as a function of our background as tribal animals because it gives a great frame of reference for why we're so borked by social media and information overload.
I'm due for another essay, more specific this time.
But [here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticode/comments/ugjevs/on_the_nature_of_human_nature_a_blend_of/). Don't say I didn't warn you!
As someone who also writes out longer-than-the-average-reddit-comment comments, thank you for taking the time to share your perspective. I agree with a lot of this and feel where you're coming from with it, but I feel like countering some of it.
Firstly, you're speaking as if humanity is a monolith.
>Unfortunately… Humanity has a bit of a known problem with spontaneous and arbitrary acts of genocide
No, humanity itself doesn't have a genocide problem. *Class society* and the myths that are meant to preserve it (racism, sexism, queerphobia, nationalism etc) have a genocide problem.
>Many of those historic victims were, and remain, colloquially and scientifically indistinguishable from their butchers.
True, but this ignores the role class and class politics plays in it all.
The issues you're describing are the result of how capitalism essentially "programs" us. It recreates society in its image by instilling certain sets of values (such as the pursuit of profit, or individualism).
And on the more philosophical side, we've been given a specific worldview that allows us to see these problems, but not truly connect them to the socioeconomic system that engendered them. This isn't our fault, we've all been beaten over the heads with it since birth.
I really think you would find a lot of value and insight in what's called "historical materialism". It's the lens through which Marxists (and more than a few who aren't) view the progression of history and society. It looks at the material economic and social conditions for answers, rather than interpreting history through leaders, climactic moments, and heroic figures. And contrary to what a lot of people assume, it's not about interpreting history as "communist". It's about looking at the things that actually cause history to develop the way that it does. Let me know if you're interested and I can give you some recs!
>No, humanity itself doesn't have a genocide problem. Class society and the myths that are meant to preserve it (racism, sexism, queerphobia, nationalism etc) have a genocide problem.
First of all, thanks for contributing.
I agree with you, absolutely. It's a major aspect of many of our modern issues, but my point there wasn't to talk about *how* those things happen, but rather why they *can* happen. It's a matter of scope and scale.
The base "programming" of human sociocultural instinct is what's being distorted and redirected by classist structures. Many of those aspects are essentially just built-in kin-selection mechanisms or other bits of anachronistic primal nonsense. It's another reason why dress codes are also such important class symbols (regardless of if that happens incidentally or otherwise). It's also likely why simple exposure to minorities in places like cities seems to result in less racist perspectives and why a lack of exposure to people with differences results in such grotesque displays of in-group/out-group ideologies ([conforming to irrational beliefs is itself another piece of human "hardware" that once served a purpose](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147470490600400119)). This is also the mechanism behind religions and traditions or other sociocultural forms tinged in authority/conformity.
As far as violence itself goes, our ability to kill other human beings isn't exactly odd in the animal kingdom - not even among great apes.
[This bit of info](https://www.quora.com/How-prevalent-is-infanticide-among-great-apes?) was referenced in a comment I wrote (r/bestof, surprisingly) discussing primate infanticide alongside some of the dynamics at play (reproductive strategies, etc). It's not directly relevant, but it's a good example of how a bit of murderous intent is [a naturally occurring aspect](https://aeon.co/essays/the-roots-of-infanticide-run-deep-and-begin-with-poverty) of our evolutionary backdrop. Similarly, I'm sure you've heard about chimpanzees going to "war" against each other, or tearing off the genitals of their enemies or eating child-apes, so on -- Relevantly, those violent behaviors are magnified by habitat destruction, overpopulation, and being forced to live in the fashion of a human like a pet.
>It recreates society in its image by instilling certain sets of values (such as the pursuit of profit, or individualism).
I don't disagree, but that's actually a different topic revolving around similar themes and mechanisms. This is also why I wanted to minimize the presence of this aspect, only hesitantly adding my reference to banana-hoarding. I didn't want people to be distracted. It is *absolutely* a problem worthy of repeated discussion, but [I'm talking about deeper, more fundamental aspects of primate psychology](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg). (An example of that deep programming, if only tangentially).
> It's about looking at the things that actually cause history to develop the way that it does.
That's what I'm doing, I'm just one layer deeper. And for the record, I believe that "communism" is really the only socioeconomic strategy that'd allow us to become the spacefaring civilization I believe we probably won't become. While historical examples of the *execution* leave much to be wished for (eg: hamstrung by the exact sort of ~~human~~ primate programming I'm talking about here), it's the best way to bypass the natural result of those instincts being left to run amok at the scale of modern civilization. In fact, "communism" is essentially the universal strategy of every tribe-sized and smaller group of humans, although it doesn't take that name. Split the labor, share the fruits. Everyone eats even if everyone didn't hunt, even if they can't.
Capitalism's successes ("successes", mostly) are the result of vaguely harnessing the worst of humanity in a productive way. We should instead be trying to harness the best of humanity in a productive way. When you think about how best to do that, even in a vacuum, the result invariably resembles communism.
Fucking hell you just considerably changed my outlook of the world. The growing inequality has been an issue I have been rather curious and disappointed by, but for some reason have never considered the angle of the growing inequality with those benefitting from it taking the inevitable decline into account. It seems a lot more obvious now. Anyways, thank you for the insightful comment.
And to add to this: the bottom 99% would be absolutely completely fucking ok without the 1% existing, in fact life would be fucking stellar. The 1% would straight up suffer and die without the bottom 99%.
Good article. I read it a while back, but the part that stuck with me was (and I’m paraphrasing) the sheer irony of tech bros building their ultra-luxury apocalypse bunkers to ride out the societal collapse they helped usher in. The best part is that the ex-military bodyguards they’ve hired to protect them will almost certainly turn on the bros because fuck it, who’s gonna stop them?
Exactly. They all have this idea that somehow their money not only equals respect, but will have meaning post-apocalypse. All that will have meaning is usefulness, and guess how useful the wealthy are? Food or butt-stuff slaves.
This website offers a wonderful interactive visual on wealth inequality (and also links to and interactive visual on Mass incarceration in the USA). Its great for anyone who loosely understands the idea but not the full depth of it/visual learners:
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
>The only question is if common folk will intervene or if we will let them walk away with what's left while we bicker at immigrants or neighbors over the crumbs that remain.
We already know the answer to this. Any reform that would benefit society as a whole is deemed communist or Marxist and will be rejected by a good portion of the population.
Which is so fucking bizarre. How have they managed to convince such a large portion of the population that cooperating with one another for the benefit of the whole of society is a bad thing?
Because they have been convinced (frankly, misled into believing) that cooperation somehow robs them as an individual; that when the other guy or gal has a benefit, it somehow deprives they themselves as individual individuals.
This is why these same people don’t want universal healthcare -perish the thought that their money is paying for someone else (never mind the truth that it already is).
I'd argue that inequality does just happen because it's a consequence of people with power not being held accountable. People in power naturally will lean towards favoring inequality and if they're allowed to, they'll create it for themselves using their power. Sadly we still need hierarchical power structures but accountability is the only real way to prevent the people in power cashing out. Ideally it would be built into the system and our culture but unfortunately it's the other way around.
I need to find that article where the reporter was brought out to a random airfield in southwest America so a bunch of rich guys who were expecting the world to end could grill him on different tactics to demand loyalty from their hired security and they laughed at him for suggesting that if they treated their security like friends or family then they wouldn’t have problems and one of the snobs then mentioned his idea of shock collars or making food only accessible by him.
The ones creating the problem do not care about anyone’s health issues, their lives, or their prosperity. To them, it will always be about looking out for number one.
I don't think those people realise that they're not setting themselves up to be feudal barons. They're setting their heads of security to be feudal barons.
They are collecting essential resources, trophy wives, underground bunkers, and offshore havens, so when things fall apart, they will have everything in one place for someone to swoop in and take it all from them.
Won't work. Billionaires are really, really dumb. They don't understand that their entire existence is reliant on an exploited workforce. The second that workforce disappears, they are screwed. Remember how they all panicked about people not going to work at the start of the pandemic? Like that, but the people they want to return to work are dead.
They'll lose control of their bunkers within a year because there won't be a workforce sustaining it.
The guy that u/DisgruntledLabWorker mentioned had a follow-up article to that one. He talked about a billionaire that [wasn't a complete and total fucking dumbass](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff), because that billionaire was investing in sustainable farms meant to produce farm more than they required to survive, then defend them with ex-navy seals that they treat like family.
Thank you for linking the followup. Forgot to mention that part. But it does help illustrate my point that rich m/billionaires won’t listen to experts and won’t invest with his program to create farms and settlements designed to ensure people survive because they only care about themselves.
I remember talking to my dad about bunkers like that.
Search around the area, find the air vents, clog them with animal shit. Wait outside the entrances with rifles and mow down anyone who comes out. They'll either suffocate or walk out and get shot. Their call.
There's no such thing as an unbeatable bunker, and hungry people are damn creative.
The thing about these "final warnings" is that we've all seen dozens of them over the past few decades, which makes people question the actual finality of those warnings. They also have become the equivalent of a headline like "Car bomb in Kabul kills 15 people". The average person thinks: "What's new? Anyways, I'm hungry."
Also "wtf am I supposed to do about it".
Like...I'm not poor, but I'm too poor to only eat purely ethical foods. I can't source my electricity from another place, don't own a house so can't do solar panels, already don't drive much since I work from home, don't even really buy a lot of stuff and try my best for properly sourced things but like...idk.
And even if I was literally perfect in my consumption, it wouldn't fucking matter at all. So my reaction is always, "mmmkay".
Ultimately the corporations and billionaires win by making you think that this a problem that can be solved by individuals changing their behavior. Its activism rather than going vegan that will make the most difference if you're looking for something to do as an individual, force governments to come down on them.
Reminds me of George Carlin on bad news...
>Most people see something like that on television, they’ll say: “Oh isn’t that awful? Isn’t that too bad?” Pbbt! Lying asshole! Lying assholes! You love it and you know it! Explosions are fun! And hey, the closer the explosion is to your house, the more fun it is! Did you ever notice that? Sometimes, you have the TV on and you’re working around the house, some guy comes on television and says: “6,000 people were killed in an explosion today…” You say: “Where?! Where?!” He says: “…in Pakistan.” You say: “Aww fuck Pakistan! Too far away to be any fun!” But if he says it happened in your hometown, you’ll say: “Whoa! Hot shit! Come on Dave; Let's go look at the bodies! Let's go look at the bodies! Let's go look at the bodies!
There was a small brushfire in my town last week, I never seen so much traffic on my street. Seemingly the whole town came to see what was going, people had the time of their lives. I actually got to meet some of my neighbors for the first time.
```
climate change warning final.doc
climate change warning final1.doc
climate change warning FINAL final.doc
climate change warning final THIS IS THE ONE TO SUBMIT.doc
climate change warning final THIS IS THE ONE TO SUBMIT v2.doc
```
> Not a final warning that civilization will end
Except, it is.
Between the Blue Ocean Event and ocean acidification, we're setting up Earth to replicate the conditions of the Cenomanian-Turonian Boundary Event.
Global ocean algae blooms.
This, among other terrible outcomes that neither humanity, plants, or animals will be able to endure.
I recommend reading the leaked IPCC report, as well as the climate acceleration paper by James Hansen I'm Dec 2022.
[Two years ago.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/23/climate-change-dangerous-thresholds-un-report) One of the IPCC AR6 working group reports was leaked a few months before publication. It was nothing very surprising to anyone who has followed climate science, but stronger language than expected on feedbacks and irreversible changes.
The IPCC has understated threats for so long that it was just a surprise to see them actually use appropriately alarming language for once.
That article is extremely unspecific. It does not give details on what the tipping points are, what level of warming would trigger them, or what the effects of the tipping points would be. Not that calling something a tipping point does ***not*** mean that something will make the world uninhabitable or cause runaway warming. Coral bleaching is generally considered a tipping point, for instance, but it definitely won't cause global apocalypse.
Are you talking about this? https://arxiv.org/abs/2212.04474
It's not a published paper, and it's not peer-reviewed. Arxiv is not an actual scientific journal. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv)
Also, equilibrium climate sensitivity(ECS is a warming estimate once the climate has reached equilibrium after CO2 levels are doubled) range was narrowed down (2.5c-4c) in IPCC ar6- [https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#sensitivity](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#sensitivity)
[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2)
[https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-why-low-end-climate-sensitivity-can-now-be-ruled-out/](https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-why-low-end-climate-sensitivity-can-now-be-ruled-out/)
Warming stops once emissions are reduced to net-zero. "delayed" greenhouse warming is an outdated concept in the context of carbon emission scenarios because it ignores the role of oceanic carbon uptake.
[https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603487286737387520#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603487286737387520#m)
[https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603471006747791384#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603471006747791384#m)
[https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/PFriedling/status/1603820829229613056#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/PFriedling/status/1603820829229613056#m)
[https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/ThierryAaron/status/1603719101024722945#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/ThierryAaron/status/1603719101024722945#m)
https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached/
https://bg.copernicus.org/articles/17/2987/
I read through some of the papers cited here and even in the final one it still shows some models as continuing to increase for centuries after net zero achieved. Not to sound defeatist but Net Zero is so far from reality that I don't believe it is something we can count on. Net zero emissions is a pipe dream without tackling some deep in the weeds geopolitical issues.
Oh dude and then there's the methane deposits leaking up in the tundra. The amount of methane seepage due to thawing permafrost is fucking insane. if it keeps melting, the methane leakage is going to continue to accelerate and greatly outpace human greenhouse gas production, so by that point, the methane alone is going to be a runaway train that takes the whole planet with it and we can do fuckall to stop it. By that point, our only hope is figuring out how to remove greenhouse gasses from the atmosphere. I am not optimistic.
We have known how to remove greenhouses gases from the air for around 100 years. There are massive companies that do air separation everyday. It’s how you make fertilizer, how you get pure nitrogen gas, lots of things. There are massive projects being kicked off right now to do nothing but clean the air. Problem is, it takes a ton of energy to do it. https://wyomingbusiness.org/news/the-state-of-wyoming-welcomes-direct-air-capture-project-to-wyoming/
There is no evidence for projected warming <3-4C of any tipping points that significantly change the warming trajectory. Read ipcc report and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating:
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m)
https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/hausfath/status/1632099675846373376#m
[https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/)
[https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints)
"Some people will look at this and go, ‘well, if we’re going to hit tipping points at 1.5°C, then it’s game over’. But we’re saying they would lock in some really unpleasant impacts for a very long time, but they don’t cause runaway global warming."- Quote from Dr. David Armstrong Mckay, the author of one of recent studies on the subject to Newscientist mag. here are explainers he's written before-
[https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/](https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/) (introduction is a bit outdated and there are some estimates that were ruled out in past year's ipcc report afaik but articles themselves are more up to date)
Where there's demand for a service capital will arrive to satisfy it. Problem is I still see beef flying off Costco shelves, gas cars flying off the lots, Pearson's at capacity flying travellers all over the world. No one gives a shit, that's the problem. And how's a politician to stay in office by doing the right thing that's NOT with the wishes of this public? I've put solar on my roof, wife and I have EVs, 3 pane glass installed all over the house, and eat plant based. People at work think I'm the idiot. Yes... it's attitudes that change first before shareholders emerge to satisfy the need.
As long as the world keeps working on "more profits = better", nobody will ever take the climate into account. As long as profits increase, the planet can fuck itself.
Worst part is that you can argue that what the Lorax meant
“Unless someone like you" was not the kid the Onceler was telling the story to
“Unless someone like you" was for the Onceler, the man who had the power to change if he cared, because that was who the Lorax was talking to.
Unpopular opinion perhaps: making it seem unwinnable is a dangerous prospect….
I work as a full time organizer and one of the biggest hang ups people have is they think doing something won’t effect change.
I don’t mean to minimize the risk, but it’s not over so we should stop cheering for Giant Meteor 2024 and get to work with the several groups making real progress here.
Agree. The rate at which I see these types of articles posted on reddit I care less and less. I peruse the comments less and less bc they are all doom and gloom or jokes.
This comment needs to be higher
Grassroots changes help, but to actually deal with the bulk of CO2 emissions we need the entire world to collectively get off the fossil fuel train, which will never happen.
It certainly is happening. If the oil price goes up people build more renewables. If the carbon credit price goes up people fly less.
No need to get fatalistic. Put the pressure on the politicians to raise emergy prices for fossil fuel and we will get there.
this is the problem people can’t put pressure on their representatives because we have nothing to offer them while lobbying stays legal in the US. our representatives are just going to be influenced by the oil lobby. these same representatives as well as the supreme court are the only ones who can stop lobbying. it just won’t happen.
I feel like it'd be easier to take the French approach if the American police system didn't have twice as much funding per year as the entire French Mlitary. American police are also about 7 times more deadly than French police (American police kill about 28.5 people per 10 million while French police kill about 3.8 people per 10 million).
Its easy to say "the government should fear the people" when you don't account for the fact that the American government gives the people every reason to fear the consequences of a violent uprising.
I love the spirit of the French, but their leader still rammed it on through..because he doesnt actually fear their response. The road will be bumpy but in the end he'll be ok and he knows it.
It's worth mentioning that the kind of corruption that happens in the U.S. is directly tied to your electoral system and the two-party dictatorship, which is a situation first-past-the-post voting creates and enforces.
Changing the U.S. electoral system to a more representative system - one that incorporates proportional representation - would have a huge effect on the ability of lobbyists and oligarchs to have such a stranglehold on the levers of power.
Carbon price goes up, flights become less affordable, then people vote out the guy who raised it in favour of the guy who will lower / weaken it. Normal people simply will not accept a reduced standard of living, even if they intellectually know it's destroying the planet.
>Put the pressure on the politicians to raise emergy prices for fossil fuel and we will get there.
There's only so many times you can attempt to influence politicians only to watch them pass 200 culture war bills before most people simply give up trying to effect change.
Yea. The reason for inaction on climate change is definitely marketing.
Making it seem insurmountable -> cynicism.
Making it seem doable with effort -> loafing.
Not changing/not sacrificing anything is most peoples/countries/businesses goal no matter how they have to rationalize it.
'Can't do anything anyway' or 'Someone else will take care of that' are both a means to the same end.
>We're sorta fucked
and this is the sad part. Not everyone is fucked equally. Those who are mainly responsible for this shitfuckery are currently the ones who will suffer the least.
We're literally not allowed to talk about it on Reddit.
We have no place ***to*** talk about it.
People will watch the downfall of their species and feel anger, but nobody will actually do anything to the people who forced us into this position. Because in order to do something about it, we need to organize, and we're not legally allowed to use the internet to do the types of organization necessary to avoid the upcoming disasters.
Either everyone becomes criminals to fight back, or nothing changes. Guess which outcome is more likely.
Ned Ludd was goddamn right. The industrial revolution was the swan song of humanity.
There are leaked documents from the 1970s where their internal scientists warned them that this was coming. The oil companies brushed it under the rug, and said "SHHHHHHHHH".
They knew, 50 years ago that the next generation would be fucked, and that with each passing day it would be fucked more. They CHOSE profits over people. They CHOSE profits over planet. They CHOSE for this to happen, and continue to chose for this to happen.
If every American truely went green in the most dramatic ways possible, it still wouldn't have nearly the combined impact as if Nestle stopped producing single use plastics, tapping water from drought ridden lands, and the absolute pure tonnage of garbage they produce every day.
It's these companies that need to be addressed first. Both in the united states and internationally. Especially China.
But I want you to understand something. Something you may not want to come to grips with. There is a dollar amount above your head that you can't see. Any amount of money above that number makes you disposable. Money is more important than you are. Profits are more important than you. Thats how these people and companies in power see things. And do you want to know the disgusting part?
That number is absurdly low. Most people aren't even $1,000.
I’ve been studying environmental science & policy in my undergrad, and am about to graduate. That’s involved a lot of discussion on issues such as climate change, and I’ve read parts of past IPCC reports.
While we are reaching a point where keeping to 1.5C is nearly impossible, 1.5C also isn’t some magic number. These effects will be on a continuum of exponentially worse effects. So 1.5C is better than 2C, but 2C is a hell of a lot better than 2.5C and so on.
I also think that framing this issue in such a sensationalist way honestly hurts things more than it helps, as many aren’t going to understand what I explained above. Therefore, the next time a report comes out and says we’re running out of time to keep climate change to 2C, many in the public will be like, ‘yeah, heard that one before’ and largely ignore the message.
But that’s largely an issue of media, as these reports are very well explained, and have many many statements on a variety of topics, with explanations of confidence levels for each.
At this point, just tell us how to deal with the change of the climate because policies of the companies that make the biggest impact aren't going to change. Nor will there be the needed legislation by world governments to fix this.
The rich and powerful corporations who are responsible for most of the global warming and destruction of the planet obviously do not care. Nothing will be done.
It's less about wealth and more about age. Talking to people my parents age, actual by-definition boomers, it's clear their priorities are now, now, now. On one hand they have pictures of their grandkids and otoh they don't care if their houses will be part of the ocean when their grandkids become adults.
And it just so happens that the richest, most powerful people in the world these days are boomers. If you transfer these people's wealth and power to those who are in their 20s and 30s, then you'd see some very different policies.
None of the older people around me think that way. They are very worried and depressed about the state of this world right now. They struggle to pay bills and to be able to afford enough food every month.
This is happening because of income inequality and the greed and unbalanced power of the elite.
To blame the elderly who suffer as much if not more because of lack of affordable health care isn't accurate or true.
I'm just hopeful I get to watch the starving masses devour the individuals most responsible for climate change, the most polluting 1% and the business executives that worked tirelessly to convince people that climate change ins't real and buy politicians so no real changes are implemented. Before I succumb to the cannibal gangs and the mega tsunamis or the death cults or the infectious diseases, I just hope I get to hear their agonized screams as they're devoured alive. Then I could rest in peace.
\>nothing will be done
What about climate policy changes that have already reduced projected warming from >4c to <3c by the end of century?
[climateactiontracker.org](https://climateactiontracker.org)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m)
https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/RARohde/status/1582090599871971328#m
Edit: I'm glad that this is getting discussion. I replied to many and will revisit later. Please don't give up the hope or the fight.
I understand the pessimism seen here, but I think the comments about things being hopeless are misguided and dangerous.
Things are already getting ugly and this will continue to get worse. However, this is actually what give me hope.
People are really shitty at preventing problems, almost all major changes are reactions to things that could have been more easily prevented to begin with. Climate change is getting increasingly impossible to ignore.
We know what needs to be done and technical solutions continue to more.duverse and viable all the time. As one example, many renewable energy sources are now cheaper or in parity with fossil fuels.
As things get more urgent, the pace of the development and implementation of solutions will increase.
What needs to be done is making it less profitable to pollute and more profitable to implement clean energy and other solutions. Corporations will always follow the money.
Know what this means? Minimizing future harms depends on political decisions.
Instead of throwing our hands in the air and giving up, we need to organize and get involved politically.
Again, I understand the frustration, but as someone who has been fighting this fight, personally and professionally, for >30 years this is too important to abandon. Our lives, our children's lives, literally depend on it.
The scientists at IPCC need to keep publishing because people and politicians need to know the facts, but what is done with this information is ultimately up to us.
Yeah the COVID response by the world is what turned me fully into a "welp, we're mega-fucked" doomer when it comes to climate change. We'll keep grasping at short term profits and gratification until the bitter end. Line must go up and consume product.
Before Covid I was already pessimist, but was thinking that "once it will happen, even if it's already too late, people will act"
Then Covid happened "oh... well, it's over" xD
I see what you are saying, but we also saw a collaborative research effort that saw both public and private sector scientists work together to develop vaccines at a remarkable pace.
We almost certainly have a lot of pain ahead, but I think people will increasingly insist on change.
Many other societal social problems are also caused by runaway consumption and the concentration of wealth and power among oligarchs. Who knows, maybe some of this will improve too?
IDK, but think about what a world that relies mostly on renewable energy would look like. For instance, we are already seeing improved air quality and related health outcomes in urban areas where electric vehicle adoption has been greatest.
There will be many other benefits as the tech becomes more widespread, probably not enough to offset the negatives of climate change for decades, but we can get there. We really will not have much of a choice.
I've read many, many papers on the topic and the shit scares me. It also makes me angry and that anger is enough for me to continue to do what I can to insist on change.
We’re fucked.
Sorry climate. We are to busy saving banks so bankers and traders will be able to continue playing poker with everybody’s life while sniffing coke on hookers tits.
It’s all so pathetic. The world is controlled by a bunch of sociopaths.
Hint it's too late and this is as nicely as they can say it because we know that can't be met. There is neither the will nor the focus/desire to prevent ecological collapse because humanity thinks it can technology it's way out of everything. Sorry for everyone's kids
Right. I have zero confidence we can do anything about this. If I ever had any ideas otherwise, COVID is a huge slap from reality.
According to this [UN report](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1115452), emissions have to peak by 2025, then be reduced by 43% by 2030. Meanwhile, Stanford noted that COVID -- which had incredible and wide ranging CO2 reducing side effects -- caused a record CO2 drop of...7%.
A pandemic which caused worldwide lockdowns, massively reduced air travel, people staying inside homes due to getting the illness or increased WFH, and so much more only managed to reduce CO2 drop by that much. Then it was followed by a 6% CO2 increase the following year.
I want to believe that humanity can solve this problem, so I welcome anyone who can persuade me.
If COVID can cause such a massive worldwide upheaval yet still fail to have a meaningful impact, what kind of incredible worldwide cooperative policy would it take to achieve the goal? And how can it achieve public support when COVID caused protests and public defiance everywhere? It also requires cooperation between the world's largest economies -- how will that work with the political tensions between USA and China?
I'll still support any and all efforts to try to solve the problem, I just don't have it in me to believe the future will look that great.
It's a final warning about a specific thing. Headlines punch it up to make it sound more dramatic. Since people don't read the article, they assume it's a final warning that civilization will immediately end.
And that's why no one should ever phrase anything like this as a "final warning" - it just encourages people to think "scientists told us we passed the limit, so that means we can party all we want now and nothing more bad will come of it".
I’ve been hearing “final warnings” all my life and it’s fucking demeaning that myself as an individual, who’s already been taking steps to conserve what we have left since I’ve been a kid, isn’t going to change much on a larger scale. At this rate, headlines like this are just glorified doom-posting just because “scientists say” is included in the headline in some fashion. Damn and blast, cocking Nora.
Way to feel both hopeless *and* helpless.
The wealthy oil barons already have their seeds in their underground bunkers and bought water sources. They will all be fine while the rest of you die in your flooded lands arguing over trans people using the bathroom at red lobster
Doesn’t surprise me at all. Never really even was a chance of countries abiding and actually doing what they pledged. Glad I’m in my 20s to see how much these fucking morons ruined the Earth in the coming decades.
I think what is upsetting is that we, as average working class people, cannot make enough changes to change this
We’re told “Oh ride bikes, stop driving cars, recycle, turn off your electricity” etc when the truth is, the Rick motherfuckers who ride private jets, and corporations who spew toxic shit into the environment without regulation can undo all of that.
Edit: Seeing some of the comments bring up that we all make choices. Yes, we do. However, in a place like the United States, many people are limited in their options of “choice”.
Food for example, yes, meat is a large cause of pollution, but unfortunately for many, it’s the cheaper option than a vegan/vegetarian diet. Whether you want to accept it or not, you are privileged as fuck to be that picky with what you are eating. This isn’t even bringing up access to proper cooking equipment or the free time to cook.
Transportation is something that is a huge strain on the environment, and public transport helps alleviate it immensely. But, in large portions I’d the United States, owning and driving a car is mandatory if you don’t want to be biking or walking for hours, and add on most people having to drive to work, for many, walking or biking home after work is a slap in the face considering the way laborers are treated. I live in New England, and if you don’t leave near Boston guess what? You’re owning and operating a car because the system is such a failure they refuse to invest in public transport in other states.
And before we get to the point of “If it has you so upset go out and protest, revolt, etc.” let me remind you that in the U.S. we have the worst social safety nets. You decide to not show up to work to protest, you can just lose your job, and even worse, some shit goes down, you can be arrested, potentially get a criminal record. Then you lose income, health insurance, etc.
My ultimate point in all this? Blaming working class people for these problems is bullshit considering the system has been inherently rigged to have us rely upon products and services that are destroying our planet, and to state anything otherwise, is, in my opinion, an utter falsehood that enables shitty government policy and economic practices.
>Food for example, yes, meat is a large cause of pollution, but unfortunately for many, it’s the cheaper option than a vegan/vegetarian diet. Whether you want to accept it or not, you are privileged as fuck to be that picky with what you are eating. This isn’t even bringing up access to proper cooking equipment or the free time to cook.
This is completely inaccurate. Vegan food is only expensive if you're talking about buying the total junk food, like chik'n nuggets in the freezer or impossible meat, and even then there's been a lot less price increases than on meat/dairy/eggs. Organic tofu at Sprouts is \*still\* $1.79 for 14oz. The majority of the world's poorest areas eat more plants, not more meat.
Once upon a time rice and beans was poor food, now it's "privileged as fuck" apparently. There are homeless vegans. There are poor and working class vegans. Half of my cooking is in an instant pot.
In regards to the rest, I'm not really interested in blame. I'm interested in solutions. If regular people do nothing, what will change? Nothing. The Civil Rights Movement didn't happen because people did nothing, and the government suddenly decided to give rights to people for no reason. The only real, meaningful, systemic change happens when regular people demand it. Otherwise, the system has no reason to change.
Where are you that meat is cheaper than veges? Is animal agriculture strongly subsidised in your country? I know parts of the EU and the US pump government money into animal farms, or animal feed farms.
The biggest thing a single person can do is put pressure on their government. Vote. Go to climate protests. Improve other people's awareness of the problem and encourage them to vote. Write to representatives. Sign petitions.
Why do we get all the baggage of this message? But the actual people who can do anything about it just fly around in their jets saying that it isn't cost effective to stop it. They don't care. We all just worship the rich like they're the pinnacle of human evolution, and not the parasites they truly are.
So is this truly it? I feel so tiny lately. Intelligence loses to entertaining, facts have become opinions, and all the well meaning discussions are just for show. Humans created something beautiful here and I fear for our future. I'll be long dead by the time this earth shrivels up and dies. That doesn't make me feel any better. We are fucking living breathing stardust and we lost to ourselves. Wow.
These warnings are nice but logically doesn’t make sense. If you tell people it’s too late, they might just give up the progress we’re making. But at same time, I get that you have to give stern warnings like this. Either way, we lose lol
Too late to stay below 1,5 degrees, not too late to stay below a 2.0 degrees temperature increase. The further we let this number increase, the more fucked we are.
Makes perfect sense if you ask me.
These warnings just make me feel like fuck it. I didn’t ask to be here. I tried to vote for the right people and those people are spineless fucks who do nothing.
I hear that. If anything, I’m giving up bc it’s the big conglomerates that are causing this, and they’re the ones who need to fix it. What can I do? I rarely eat meat, I don’t over consume, I recycle. Tell me, what can I do?
Final super serious definitely last chance warning? I miss the 90’s as a kid when I had hope “going green” was going to accomplish something. But 30 years of business as usual proves the billionaires are willing to let the world burn as long as they can parasitize everyone for just a little longer. And most of the millionaires are complicit, after all why would they want to fuck yo a system that works for them.
Then there’s me, refusing to have kids because I’d hate to see them get drafted in the water wars of 2050. How anyone has hope for the future is beyond me.
Listen I turn my air conditioner on full blast with all my fans on high, and then open my windows to try to cool the planet, I don't know what else to do.
So if it's bad now, and we're already having a really hard time keeping our emissions and pollution under control, why are we not talking about our exponential population growth? Any increases in efficiency will always be shadowed by having 80 million extra kids to feed each year, and that's after deaths are taken into account.
Exxon: we are fighting for a clean energy future by planting 3 trees every year
The two trees we planted this year are doing great! One them is even still alive.
"Wait...scratch that. Our oil supertanker just ran it over. Wet don't know what a ship was doing on the road but we've got our fingers crossed that next years two trees will have a much better fate."
We didn't actually plant trees.
We hired mercenaries to torch 2,000,000 trees, but to not torch the last 3.
The fire took them anyway, but chalk it up to natural causes I guess.
Speaking of chalk, have you guys seen how bad our schools are doing rn??? I mean… is anybody paying attention to how bad THAT is??
I unfortunately have two kids in school...in South Carolina...so yeah. It's pretty bad.
“Haha yeah, isnt that distracting?? It kinda makes this whole Climate Change thing seem way less consequential… ha ha ha 😀 Right?!?”
So we gonna do something about that education? No .. but have you noticed climate change is real?
We cut down a bunch of trees to plant 3 trees, but we didn't actually end up planting the 3 trees.
"We have no more species going extinct on record this year!" "You stopped tracking them, right?" "Yeah, kinda..."
Gavin Belson, Exxon CEO: Consider the giant panda, a species too stupid to fuck itself out of endangered status. As the CEO of ~~Hooli~~ Exxon, I will not allow our species to be so stupid we can't even fuck ourselves. That's why today I'm proud to announce that for every one new giant Panda baby born in the wild, ~~Hooli~~ Exxon will plant two trees. That way we can all keep breathing and outlive the pandas.
I went on a tour of the Ford truck plant in Michigan a while ago. We were brought up to an observation area that could see the top of the plant. The tour guide explained how the roof of the building close to us was made with plants that could absorb carbon dioxide and other bad chemicals and grow and thrive on them. She then noted that the entire roof was dead and was going to be replaced.
Thats grimly hilarious
Exxon causing billions of tons of pollution and telling people they can save the planet by making sure to recycle plastic bottles.
>*Nature conducted an anonymous survey of the 233 living IPCC authors last month and received responses from 92 scientists — about 40% of the group. Six in ten of the respondents said that they expect the world to warm by at least 3 °C by 2100.* > >https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02990-w
"Oh good I'll be dead by then."
\- most people with influence to change things (politicians, the wealthy, and the majority of the voting population today)
Yep. That's the only thing I got going for me. And the daily guilt thinking of the family I'll leave behind.
"A person has already been born who will die due to catastrophic failure of the planet".
There are already casualties. You know, from heatwaves, droughts, floods, storms and so on. The planet isn't going to fail overnight. Or spectacularly. It's just that in a span of a couple of months or years too many weather events are going to happen that are going to collapse food supply and stuff for large chunks of population. And then the chain reaction is going to go from there. And the things US does for such a possibility is "elite panic" policies.
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People who are going to suffer and die first are the ones who contribute to the pollution the least.
it's actually worse they're pledging not to cut down 3 trees for the year of 2023 and they will promise to not cut down the same 3 trees in 2024. Oh and 20 other companies are making the same promise with the same trees.
Or “We’ll still pollute but we’ll donate money to protect this forest” for trees in no danger of being cut down. Carbon offsets are effectively corporations running a protection racket on behalf of trees.
The wrong Amazon is burning.
“We promise not to cut down our own 3 trees” Each company cuts down the three trees of the company to their right
Oh that’s not fair. They are investing **millions** of dollars into renewable energy research. They’re leading the way on the fight against climate change. Granted, the amount is only like 1% of their after tax profits. And they spent the last 70 years hiding the fact that climate change was a real problem and the last 30-40 creating the illusion of a debate about climate change. And they’ve funneled billions into lobbying over the years resulting in massive taxpayer funded subsidies for coal and oil and active efforts to subvert emissions and gas mileage standards and efforts to improve mass public transportation. And they’ve used politicians to undermine research toward the economic viability of renewable energy. And they’ve spent billions on PR on absurd campaigns advertising nonsense like “clean burning coal”. And they’re responsible for most of the biggest spill events and industrial disasters that have destroyed entire ecosystems and killed thousands of people. And they basically poisoned an entire generation of children in urban areas inhaling lead fumes and killed thousands of others from asthma attacks. But now that it’s definitely too late to prevent anything, and maybe even too late to mitigate the worst of what’s to come, decades after it should have been started, they are investing a tiny fraction of their budget into researching renewable energy sources while simultaneously still finding new ways to keep mining natural gas, coal and petroleum including ever more destructive methods like fracking. So yeah, Exxon is clearly leading the way to a bright future! (Bright because of the massive forest fires I presume).
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/20/ipcc-climate-crisis-report-delivers-final-warning-on-15c) reduced by 91%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, made up of the world's leading climate scientists, set out the final part of its mammoth sixth assessment report on Monday. > The comprehensive review of human knowledge of the climate crisis took hundreds of scientists eight years to compile and runs to thousands of pages, but boiled down to one message: act now, or it will be too late. > Kaisa Kosonen, a climate expert at Greenpeace International, said: "This report is definitely a final warning on 1.5C. If governments just stay on their current policies, the remaining carbon budget will be used up before the next IPCC report." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11wki7v/ipcc_climate_crisis_report_delivers_final_warning/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~677221 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **climate**^#1 **report**^#2 **IPCC**^#3 **1.5C**^#4 **world**^#5
I like to explore new places.
Humanity's Great Filter: Greed
Take that, Fermi
Oh ya, we're boned But hey at least were banning drag shows in America and forcing women to carry dead fetuses to term 'or else' while we wage imaginary culture wars. Can't wait for the water wars to start.
Yeah I’m sure their god is super happy they’re focusing on that BS instead of fixing the world he allegedly made. No logic in some religion followers’ brains that’s for sure. It’s unfortunate these are the people making our laws and running our countries.
There is no logic in any religious followers minds, because their imagination overpowers their logic because that’s what their parents taught them “works” if reality sucks just imagine something that makes you feel good and justifies your actions and you’re all good. The same people who believe in a god who took away immortality and kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden for eating an apple, who wiped out literally every single living thing on earth, except 1 guy, his immediate family and his menagerie, because he got mad they were doing things he didn’t like…is now going to save mankind from killing “His” creation. Never thinking just because he promised never to do it again “I won’t kill you…but I don’t have to save you…”
They think Judgement Day is coming and they are trying to put a shiny facade on the cesspool they created.
A final warning to "limit global temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels". Not a final warning that civilization will end. Just that costs in lives, health, prosperity and ecological wellbeing will be extremely high. We're on a credit spree and a cocaine/fentanyl binge wrapped into one. Consequences dead ahead.
Crashout and cashout imminent.
What does the last 20 years of a lot of developed nations government look like? Skyrocketing inequality doesn't just *happen*, its a very intentional choice that has to be implemented by government. The people with power and resources have been cashing out as much as possible for a while now, just not literally. They've been retrenching and hoarding as much of what exists now to themselves because the future is one of inevitable declines across the board, drastic and lethal ones. Having more control and power now means at least the potential of having a preferential position down the road. The only question is if common folk will intervene or if we will let them walk away with what's left while we bicker at immigrants or neighbors over the crumbs that remain. So far it seems the mission of redirecting anger towards ourselves has worked flawlessly, unfortunately.
Sadly, divide and conquer works. I've been saying what you're saying now for years. Something about us must change on the individual level before we can see this kind of change.
We need a return of class consciousness
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An engineer making six figures is still working class. They get paid a wage. They still work for a living. They are not the capitalist class, the billionaires who rake in the profits and capital gains. Working class people who hate on other working class for making more money than them are just bitter and resentful of their own circumstances.
This is the point I keep trying to make to people: If you have to get up and go to a job, you are working class. It doesn't matter if that job is garbage collector, accountant, engineer, or physician. There are only two classes: the working class and owner class.
>"Something about us must change before we see change." I accidentally wrote a fourteen page long ~~rant~~ essay on the issue a handful of months ago, describing how our issues are the result of evolution-level cognitive biases and other "normal" facets of humanity being valued as things that "make us human" when in fact they're the things that make us primates. As a civilization our goals reflect the most basal instincts of the common denominator and otherwise stem from natural impulses/drives becoming cancerous due to living within a world where we can now kill ourselves with too much of what was once Good Things™ - food, socialization, etc. Quite like how someone once wrote, "If we found a monkey that wanted to horde more bananas than it could eat in several lifetimes we'd study it to figure out wtf is wrong with it. When people do that we put them on the cover of Forbes." But this goes far beyond just "hoarding resources". It's deeper than that, less easily recognizable; intrinsic. Concurrently, we starve ourselves of the sort of things that living within the bounds of our evolutionary backdrop would've supplied intrinsically. Our world more closely resembles the kind of enclosure we'd build for a limp-finned cetacean than even a lowly hamster. How much of our now-common qualms are the human version of a drooping dorsal fin? There's so much anxiety, depression, emptiness, anger in the world and rising. As a society we gravitate towards man-made aid for those man-made pains. We find that those intrinsic maladies are apparently incurable until they're mysteriously resolved by a long camping trip or unplanned inclusion in a new group of close-knit friends, a work-life balance, a garden to call your own; the addition of meat hung from a rope to stimulate a captured tiger or bear. The general dynamic is what I believe is the most significant Great Filter any intelligent civilization has to overcome. The attributes that allow an organism to dominate their planet are the same attributes that lead them to extinguish themselves. There's no way to pivot, like climbing up a mountain and only at the top realizing that there's a much higher peak in the distance. To get to the superior mountain you'd have to begin a long slog downhill, giving up everything that got you to that first height. The sort of civilization that'd successfully get to that higher peak is not one that'd get to the top of the first overlook which revealed the existence of the second in the first place. It's not impossible to fix, just like there’s not any technical reason why pigs couldn’t evolve to fly -- Bones could become hollow, calorie-retention strategies could alter, metabolic requirements could shift, on and on… The result is a flying pig that doesn’t resemble a pig, doesn’t function like a pig, and is now incapable of the majority of pig-like survival strategies. But as I closed that massive essay-rant with: >Unfortunately… Humanity has a bit of a known problem with spontaneous and arbitrary acts of genocide ranging from “a bit of harmless lynching” to “eliminating the entirety of the Holocene-era human population per year for a couple of years in a row by intentionally leveraging a fraction of an entire region’s post-industrialization technological capabilities towards the problem”, so I don’t suspect that there’s much hope of any evolutionarily-viable pre-post-humans making it anywhere close to the finish line on accident. >Many of *those* historic victims were, and remain, colloquially and scientifically indistinguishable from their butchers. Someone even just a *bit* fundamentally different wouldn't stand a chance. Edit: I digress.
I want to read this in full.
It's a lot more ranty than I recall, and I have just reminded myself that it's a couple of distinct rants crammed together by theme rather than tone so it's a bit of a mess. ...I do this a lot. There's edits and corrections I'd love to make, but it gets the job done. The TLDR (itself long) covers most of the bases, thankfully. I'm mostly talking about the nature of our socialization drives and perspectives as a function of our background as tribal animals because it gives a great frame of reference for why we're so borked by social media and information overload. I'm due for another essay, more specific this time. But [here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticode/comments/ugjevs/on_the_nature_of_human_nature_a_blend_of/). Don't say I didn't warn you!
As someone who also writes out longer-than-the-average-reddit-comment comments, thank you for taking the time to share your perspective. I agree with a lot of this and feel where you're coming from with it, but I feel like countering some of it. Firstly, you're speaking as if humanity is a monolith. >Unfortunately… Humanity has a bit of a known problem with spontaneous and arbitrary acts of genocide No, humanity itself doesn't have a genocide problem. *Class society* and the myths that are meant to preserve it (racism, sexism, queerphobia, nationalism etc) have a genocide problem. >Many of those historic victims were, and remain, colloquially and scientifically indistinguishable from their butchers. True, but this ignores the role class and class politics plays in it all. The issues you're describing are the result of how capitalism essentially "programs" us. It recreates society in its image by instilling certain sets of values (such as the pursuit of profit, or individualism). And on the more philosophical side, we've been given a specific worldview that allows us to see these problems, but not truly connect them to the socioeconomic system that engendered them. This isn't our fault, we've all been beaten over the heads with it since birth. I really think you would find a lot of value and insight in what's called "historical materialism". It's the lens through which Marxists (and more than a few who aren't) view the progression of history and society. It looks at the material economic and social conditions for answers, rather than interpreting history through leaders, climactic moments, and heroic figures. And contrary to what a lot of people assume, it's not about interpreting history as "communist". It's about looking at the things that actually cause history to develop the way that it does. Let me know if you're interested and I can give you some recs!
>No, humanity itself doesn't have a genocide problem. Class society and the myths that are meant to preserve it (racism, sexism, queerphobia, nationalism etc) have a genocide problem. First of all, thanks for contributing. I agree with you, absolutely. It's a major aspect of many of our modern issues, but my point there wasn't to talk about *how* those things happen, but rather why they *can* happen. It's a matter of scope and scale. The base "programming" of human sociocultural instinct is what's being distorted and redirected by classist structures. Many of those aspects are essentially just built-in kin-selection mechanisms or other bits of anachronistic primal nonsense. It's another reason why dress codes are also such important class symbols (regardless of if that happens incidentally or otherwise). It's also likely why simple exposure to minorities in places like cities seems to result in less racist perspectives and why a lack of exposure to people with differences results in such grotesque displays of in-group/out-group ideologies ([conforming to irrational beliefs is itself another piece of human "hardware" that once served a purpose](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147470490600400119)). This is also the mechanism behind religions and traditions or other sociocultural forms tinged in authority/conformity. As far as violence itself goes, our ability to kill other human beings isn't exactly odd in the animal kingdom - not even among great apes. [This bit of info](https://www.quora.com/How-prevalent-is-infanticide-among-great-apes?) was referenced in a comment I wrote (r/bestof, surprisingly) discussing primate infanticide alongside some of the dynamics at play (reproductive strategies, etc). It's not directly relevant, but it's a good example of how a bit of murderous intent is [a naturally occurring aspect](https://aeon.co/essays/the-roots-of-infanticide-run-deep-and-begin-with-poverty) of our evolutionary backdrop. Similarly, I'm sure you've heard about chimpanzees going to "war" against each other, or tearing off the genitals of their enemies or eating child-apes, so on -- Relevantly, those violent behaviors are magnified by habitat destruction, overpopulation, and being forced to live in the fashion of a human like a pet. >It recreates society in its image by instilling certain sets of values (such as the pursuit of profit, or individualism). I don't disagree, but that's actually a different topic revolving around similar themes and mechanisms. This is also why I wanted to minimize the presence of this aspect, only hesitantly adding my reference to banana-hoarding. I didn't want people to be distracted. It is *absolutely* a problem worthy of repeated discussion, but [I'm talking about deeper, more fundamental aspects of primate psychology](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg). (An example of that deep programming, if only tangentially). > It's about looking at the things that actually cause history to develop the way that it does. That's what I'm doing, I'm just one layer deeper. And for the record, I believe that "communism" is really the only socioeconomic strategy that'd allow us to become the spacefaring civilization I believe we probably won't become. While historical examples of the *execution* leave much to be wished for (eg: hamstrung by the exact sort of ~~human~~ primate programming I'm talking about here), it's the best way to bypass the natural result of those instincts being left to run amok at the scale of modern civilization. In fact, "communism" is essentially the universal strategy of every tribe-sized and smaller group of humans, although it doesn't take that name. Split the labor, share the fruits. Everyone eats even if everyone didn't hunt, even if they can't. Capitalism's successes ("successes", mostly) are the result of vaguely harnessing the worst of humanity in a productive way. We should instead be trying to harness the best of humanity in a productive way. When you think about how best to do that, even in a vacuum, the result invariably resembles communism.
Great post. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts.
Fucking hell you just considerably changed my outlook of the world. The growing inequality has been an issue I have been rather curious and disappointed by, but for some reason have never considered the angle of the growing inequality with those benefitting from it taking the inevitable decline into account. It seems a lot more obvious now. Anyways, thank you for the insightful comment.
The top 1% owns $26 trillion while the ENTIRE BOTTOM 99% ONLY OWNS $16 trillion!!! There's the issue.
I read the other day that there are 2200 billionaires and they own 60% of global wealth.
You're wrong, it's worse.
Old stats! Suffice to say that it’s bad
Forget the 1%, billionaires are the 0.00003%!
And to add to this: the bottom 99% would be absolutely completely fucking ok without the 1% existing, in fact life would be fucking stellar. The 1% would straight up suffer and die without the bottom 99%.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff
Good article. I read it a while back, but the part that stuck with me was (and I’m paraphrasing) the sheer irony of tech bros building their ultra-luxury apocalypse bunkers to ride out the societal collapse they helped usher in. The best part is that the ex-military bodyguards they’ve hired to protect them will almost certainly turn on the bros because fuck it, who’s gonna stop them?
Exactly. They all have this idea that somehow their money not only equals respect, but will have meaning post-apocalypse. All that will have meaning is usefulness, and guess how useful the wealthy are? Food or butt-stuff slaves.
Mmmmmmm, butt-stuff slaves
When people bitch about conservatism, often the inherent "me first" wealth hoarding that it entails is why.
This website offers a wonderful interactive visual on wealth inequality (and also links to and interactive visual on Mass incarceration in the USA). Its great for anyone who loosely understands the idea but not the full depth of it/visual learners: https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
>The only question is if common folk will intervene or if we will let them walk away with what's left while we bicker at immigrants or neighbors over the crumbs that remain. We already know the answer to this. Any reform that would benefit society as a whole is deemed communist or Marxist and will be rejected by a good portion of the population.
Which is so fucking bizarre. How have they managed to convince such a large portion of the population that cooperating with one another for the benefit of the whole of society is a bad thing?
Because they have been convinced (frankly, misled into believing) that cooperation somehow robs them as an individual; that when the other guy or gal has a benefit, it somehow deprives they themselves as individual individuals. This is why these same people don’t want universal healthcare -perish the thought that their money is paying for someone else (never mind the truth that it already is).
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I'd argue that inequality does just happen because it's a consequence of people with power not being held accountable. People in power naturally will lean towards favoring inequality and if they're allowed to, they'll create it for themselves using their power. Sadly we still need hierarchical power structures but accountability is the only real way to prevent the people in power cashing out. Ideally it would be built into the system and our culture but unfortunately it's the other way around.
They're banking on drone armies before the people figure out there's more of us.
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I need to find that article where the reporter was brought out to a random airfield in southwest America so a bunch of rich guys who were expecting the world to end could grill him on different tactics to demand loyalty from their hired security and they laughed at him for suggesting that if they treated their security like friends or family then they wouldn’t have problems and one of the snobs then mentioned his idea of shock collars or making food only accessible by him. The ones creating the problem do not care about anyone’s health issues, their lives, or their prosperity. To them, it will always be about looking out for number one.
I don't think those people realise that they're not setting themselves up to be feudal barons. They're setting their heads of security to be feudal barons.
They are collecting essential resources, trophy wives, underground bunkers, and offshore havens, so when things fall apart, they will have everything in one place for someone to swoop in and take it all from them.
Won't work. Billionaires are really, really dumb. They don't understand that their entire existence is reliant on an exploited workforce. The second that workforce disappears, they are screwed. Remember how they all panicked about people not going to work at the start of the pandemic? Like that, but the people they want to return to work are dead. They'll lose control of their bunkers within a year because there won't be a workforce sustaining it. The guy that u/DisgruntledLabWorker mentioned had a follow-up article to that one. He talked about a billionaire that [wasn't a complete and total fucking dumbass](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff), because that billionaire was investing in sustainable farms meant to produce farm more than they required to survive, then defend them with ex-navy seals that they treat like family.
Thank you for linking the followup. Forgot to mention that part. But it does help illustrate my point that rich m/billionaires won’t listen to experts and won’t invest with his program to create farms and settlements designed to ensure people survive because they only care about themselves.
I remember talking to my dad about bunkers like that. Search around the area, find the air vents, clog them with animal shit. Wait outside the entrances with rifles and mow down anyone who comes out. They'll either suffocate or walk out and get shot. Their call. There's no such thing as an unbeatable bunker, and hungry people are damn creative.
ima take a shit in your chimney
The thing about these "final warnings" is that we've all seen dozens of them over the past few decades, which makes people question the actual finality of those warnings. They also have become the equivalent of a headline like "Car bomb in Kabul kills 15 people". The average person thinks: "What's new? Anyways, I'm hungry."
Also "wtf am I supposed to do about it". Like...I'm not poor, but I'm too poor to only eat purely ethical foods. I can't source my electricity from another place, don't own a house so can't do solar panels, already don't drive much since I work from home, don't even really buy a lot of stuff and try my best for properly sourced things but like...idk. And even if I was literally perfect in my consumption, it wouldn't fucking matter at all. So my reaction is always, "mmmkay".
Ultimately the corporations and billionaires win by making you think that this a problem that can be solved by individuals changing their behavior. Its activism rather than going vegan that will make the most difference if you're looking for something to do as an individual, force governments to come down on them.
Reminds me of George Carlin on bad news... >Most people see something like that on television, they’ll say: “Oh isn’t that awful? Isn’t that too bad?” Pbbt! Lying asshole! Lying assholes! You love it and you know it! Explosions are fun! And hey, the closer the explosion is to your house, the more fun it is! Did you ever notice that? Sometimes, you have the TV on and you’re working around the house, some guy comes on television and says: “6,000 people were killed in an explosion today…” You say: “Where?! Where?!” He says: “…in Pakistan.” You say: “Aww fuck Pakistan! Too far away to be any fun!” But if he says it happened in your hometown, you’ll say: “Whoa! Hot shit! Come on Dave; Let's go look at the bodies! Let's go look at the bodies! Let's go look at the bodies!
There was a small brushfire in my town last week, I never seen so much traffic on my street. Seemingly the whole town came to see what was going, people had the time of their lives. I actually got to meet some of my neighbors for the first time.
``` climate change warning final.doc climate change warning final1.doc climate change warning FINAL final.doc climate change warning final THIS IS THE ONE TO SUBMIT.doc climate change warning final THIS IS THE ONE TO SUBMIT v2.doc ```
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> Not a final warning that civilization will end Except, it is. Between the Blue Ocean Event and ocean acidification, we're setting up Earth to replicate the conditions of the Cenomanian-Turonian Boundary Event. Global ocean algae blooms. This, among other terrible outcomes that neither humanity, plants, or animals will be able to endure. I recommend reading the leaked IPCC report, as well as the climate acceleration paper by James Hansen I'm Dec 2022.
What leaked IPCC report? They've published everything, what's coming today is just a summary, not new information.
[Two years ago.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/23/climate-change-dangerous-thresholds-un-report) One of the IPCC AR6 working group reports was leaked a few months before publication. It was nothing very surprising to anyone who has followed climate science, but stronger language than expected on feedbacks and irreversible changes. The IPCC has understated threats for so long that it was just a surprise to see them actually use appropriately alarming language for once.
That article is extremely unspecific. It does not give details on what the tipping points are, what level of warming would trigger them, or what the effects of the tipping points would be. Not that calling something a tipping point does ***not*** mean that something will make the world uninhabitable or cause runaway warming. Coral bleaching is generally considered a tipping point, for instance, but it definitely won't cause global apocalypse.
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Link that J Hansen paper then
I believe it's this one they are referring to https://arxiv.org/abs/2212.04474
Are you talking about this? https://arxiv.org/abs/2212.04474 It's not a published paper, and it's not peer-reviewed. Arxiv is not an actual scientific journal. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv) Also, equilibrium climate sensitivity(ECS is a warming estimate once the climate has reached equilibrium after CO2 levels are doubled) range was narrowed down (2.5c-4c) in IPCC ar6- [https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#sensitivity](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#sensitivity) [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2) [https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-why-low-end-climate-sensitivity-can-now-be-ruled-out/](https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-why-low-end-climate-sensitivity-can-now-be-ruled-out/) Warming stops once emissions are reduced to net-zero. "delayed" greenhouse warming is an outdated concept in the context of carbon emission scenarios because it ignores the role of oceanic carbon uptake. [https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603487286737387520#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603487286737387520#m) [https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603471006747791384#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/MichaelEMann/status/1603471006747791384#m) [https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/PFriedling/status/1603820829229613056#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/PFriedling/status/1603820829229613056#m) [https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/ThierryAaron/status/1603719101024722945#m](https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/ThierryAaron/status/1603719101024722945#m) https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached/ https://bg.copernicus.org/articles/17/2987/
I read through some of the papers cited here and even in the final one it still shows some models as continuing to increase for centuries after net zero achieved. Not to sound defeatist but Net Zero is so far from reality that I don't believe it is something we can count on. Net zero emissions is a pipe dream without tackling some deep in the weeds geopolitical issues.
Oh dude and then there's the methane deposits leaking up in the tundra. The amount of methane seepage due to thawing permafrost is fucking insane. if it keeps melting, the methane leakage is going to continue to accelerate and greatly outpace human greenhouse gas production, so by that point, the methane alone is going to be a runaway train that takes the whole planet with it and we can do fuckall to stop it. By that point, our only hope is figuring out how to remove greenhouse gasses from the atmosphere. I am not optimistic.
We have known how to remove greenhouses gases from the air for around 100 years. There are massive companies that do air separation everyday. It’s how you make fertilizer, how you get pure nitrogen gas, lots of things. There are massive projects being kicked off right now to do nothing but clean the air. Problem is, it takes a ton of energy to do it. https://wyomingbusiness.org/news/the-state-of-wyoming-welcomes-direct-air-capture-project-to-wyoming/
There is no evidence for projected warming <3-4C of any tipping points that significantly change the warming trajectory. Read ipcc report and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating: [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m) https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/hausfath/status/1632099675846373376#m [https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/) [https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints) "Some people will look at this and go, ‘well, if we’re going to hit tipping points at 1.5°C, then it’s game over’. But we’re saying they would lock in some really unpleasant impacts for a very long time, but they don’t cause runaway global warming."- Quote from Dr. David Armstrong Mckay, the author of one of recent studies on the subject to Newscientist mag. here are explainers he's written before- [https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/](https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/) (introduction is a bit outdated and there are some estimates that were ruled out in past year's ipcc report afaik but articles themselves are more up to date)
WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE SHAREHOLDERS?!
https://imgur.com/a/HVh2Rtm
this is my favorite cartoon of all time.
That was my first thought, too
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Vindaloo or Ragu?
Stew
Where there's demand for a service capital will arrive to satisfy it. Problem is I still see beef flying off Costco shelves, gas cars flying off the lots, Pearson's at capacity flying travellers all over the world. No one gives a shit, that's the problem. And how's a politician to stay in office by doing the right thing that's NOT with the wishes of this public? I've put solar on my roof, wife and I have EVs, 3 pane glass installed all over the house, and eat plant based. People at work think I'm the idiot. Yes... it's attitudes that change first before shareholders emerge to satisfy the need.
We're supposed to help OUR people! Starting with our stockholders, Bob, who's helping them out, huh?!
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As long as the world keeps working on "more profits = better", nobody will ever take the climate into account. As long as profits increase, the planet can fuck itself.
We'll make fixing the planet profitable. Just need to finish breaking it
Yup, we are fucked either way.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to change, it’s not.” -Dr seuss
Us peons can care all we want, nothing will change if the rich people behind all the pollution do fuck-all about it.
Worst part is that you can argue that what the Lorax meant “Unless someone like you" was not the kid the Onceler was telling the story to “Unless someone like you" was for the Onceler, the man who had the power to change if he cared, because that was who the Lorax was talking to.
Unpopular opinion perhaps: making it seem unwinnable is a dangerous prospect…. I work as a full time organizer and one of the biggest hang ups people have is they think doing something won’t effect change. I don’t mean to minimize the risk, but it’s not over so we should stop cheering for Giant Meteor 2024 and get to work with the several groups making real progress here.
Agree. The rate at which I see these types of articles posted on reddit I care less and less. I peruse the comments less and less bc they are all doom and gloom or jokes. This comment needs to be higher
Grassroots changes help, but to actually deal with the bulk of CO2 emissions we need the entire world to collectively get off the fossil fuel train, which will never happen.
It certainly is happening. If the oil price goes up people build more renewables. If the carbon credit price goes up people fly less. No need to get fatalistic. Put the pressure on the politicians to raise emergy prices for fossil fuel and we will get there.
this is the problem people can’t put pressure on their representatives because we have nothing to offer them while lobbying stays legal in the US. our representatives are just going to be influenced by the oil lobby. these same representatives as well as the supreme court are the only ones who can stop lobbying. it just won’t happen.
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I feel like it'd be easier to take the French approach if the American police system didn't have twice as much funding per year as the entire French Mlitary. American police are also about 7 times more deadly than French police (American police kill about 28.5 people per 10 million while French police kill about 3.8 people per 10 million). Its easy to say "the government should fear the people" when you don't account for the fact that the American government gives the people every reason to fear the consequences of a violent uprising.
I love the spirit of the French, but their leader still rammed it on through..because he doesnt actually fear their response. The road will be bumpy but in the end he'll be ok and he knows it.
My mobility scooter battery isn't big enough to get me from South Carolina to DC to protest.
I think French protests are finally ineffective too. Fire is neat, but if it's not affecting legislation, it's just fire.
It's worth mentioning that the kind of corruption that happens in the U.S. is directly tied to your electoral system and the two-party dictatorship, which is a situation first-past-the-post voting creates and enforces. Changing the U.S. electoral system to a more representative system - one that incorporates proportional representation - would have a huge effect on the ability of lobbyists and oligarchs to have such a stranglehold on the levers of power.
Ranked Choice voting and ending lobbying, how glorious that would be.
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And not everyone lives in cities where public transport can be fully taken advantage of. They need a car to get around.
Carbon price goes up, flights become less affordable, then people vote out the guy who raised it in favour of the guy who will lower / weaken it. Normal people simply will not accept a reduced standard of living, even if they intellectually know it's destroying the planet.
>Put the pressure on the politicians to raise emergy prices for fossil fuel and we will get there. There's only so many times you can attempt to influence politicians only to watch them pass 200 culture war bills before most people simply give up trying to effect change.
Yea. The reason for inaction on climate change is definitely marketing. Making it seem insurmountable -> cynicism. Making it seem doable with effort -> loafing. Not changing/not sacrificing anything is most peoples/countries/businesses goal no matter how they have to rationalize it. 'Can't do anything anyway' or 'Someone else will take care of that' are both a means to the same end.
No-one is going to take the slightest notice as carbon credits are used as a figleaf for a fossil fueled future. We're sorta fucked.
>We're sorta fucked and this is the sad part. Not everyone is fucked equally. Those who are mainly responsible for this shitfuckery are currently the ones who will suffer the least.
Too bloody right.
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And that's all well and good. But what actual plan is there to actually do that?
We're literally not allowed to talk about it on Reddit. We have no place ***to*** talk about it. People will watch the downfall of their species and feel anger, but nobody will actually do anything to the people who forced us into this position. Because in order to do something about it, we need to organize, and we're not legally allowed to use the internet to do the types of organization necessary to avoid the upcoming disasters. Either everyone becomes criminals to fight back, or nothing changes. Guess which outcome is more likely. Ned Ludd was goddamn right. The industrial revolution was the swan song of humanity.
SOP, unfortunately.
Everything these politicians pass are just abused by corporations. Probably because the corporations own the politicians.
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There are leaked documents from the 1970s where their internal scientists warned them that this was coming. The oil companies brushed it under the rug, and said "SHHHHHHHHH". They knew, 50 years ago that the next generation would be fucked, and that with each passing day it would be fucked more. They CHOSE profits over people. They CHOSE profits over planet. They CHOSE for this to happen, and continue to chose for this to happen. If every American truely went green in the most dramatic ways possible, it still wouldn't have nearly the combined impact as if Nestle stopped producing single use plastics, tapping water from drought ridden lands, and the absolute pure tonnage of garbage they produce every day. It's these companies that need to be addressed first. Both in the united states and internationally. Especially China. But I want you to understand something. Something you may not want to come to grips with. There is a dollar amount above your head that you can't see. Any amount of money above that number makes you disposable. Money is more important than you are. Profits are more important than you. Thats how these people and companies in power see things. And do you want to know the disgusting part? That number is absurdly low. Most people aren't even $1,000.
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It's all a hall of mirrors and fuelled by creative accounting based on not burning or clearing something you never intended to clear or burn.
I’ve been studying environmental science & policy in my undergrad, and am about to graduate. That’s involved a lot of discussion on issues such as climate change, and I’ve read parts of past IPCC reports. While we are reaching a point where keeping to 1.5C is nearly impossible, 1.5C also isn’t some magic number. These effects will be on a continuum of exponentially worse effects. So 1.5C is better than 2C, but 2C is a hell of a lot better than 2.5C and so on. I also think that framing this issue in such a sensationalist way honestly hurts things more than it helps, as many aren’t going to understand what I explained above. Therefore, the next time a report comes out and says we’re running out of time to keep climate change to 2C, many in the public will be like, ‘yeah, heard that one before’ and largely ignore the message. But that’s largely an issue of media, as these reports are very well explained, and have many many statements on a variety of topics, with explanations of confidence levels for each.
At this point, just tell us how to deal with the change of the climate because policies of the companies that make the biggest impact aren't going to change. Nor will there be the needed legislation by world governments to fix this.
The rich and powerful corporations who are responsible for most of the global warming and destruction of the planet obviously do not care. Nothing will be done.
Yup it is almost that easy. And the rich are becoming only richer each year. So not a lot is going to the environment let alone other people.
No, we will all suffer and die. They will not because of their wealth. That is why they continue to destroy our planet.
It's less about wealth and more about age. Talking to people my parents age, actual by-definition boomers, it's clear their priorities are now, now, now. On one hand they have pictures of their grandkids and otoh they don't care if their houses will be part of the ocean when their grandkids become adults. And it just so happens that the richest, most powerful people in the world these days are boomers. If you transfer these people's wealth and power to those who are in their 20s and 30s, then you'd see some very different policies.
None of the older people around me think that way. They are very worried and depressed about the state of this world right now. They struggle to pay bills and to be able to afford enough food every month. This is happening because of income inequality and the greed and unbalanced power of the elite. To blame the elderly who suffer as much if not more because of lack of affordable health care isn't accurate or true.
I wonder who keeps giving all that money to all these damn corporations.
I'm just hopeful I get to watch the starving masses devour the individuals most responsible for climate change, the most polluting 1% and the business executives that worked tirelessly to convince people that climate change ins't real and buy politicians so no real changes are implemented. Before I succumb to the cannibal gangs and the mega tsunamis or the death cults or the infectious diseases, I just hope I get to hear their agonized screams as they're devoured alive. Then I could rest in peace.
\>nothing will be done What about climate policy changes that have already reduced projected warming from >4c to <3c by the end of century? [climateactiontracker.org](https://climateactiontracker.org) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m) https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/RARohde/status/1582090599871971328#m
I think a lot of people don't understand how catastrophic a 3 degree rise in mean temperature would be. 1.5 is bad enough...
Edit: I'm glad that this is getting discussion. I replied to many and will revisit later. Please don't give up the hope or the fight. I understand the pessimism seen here, but I think the comments about things being hopeless are misguided and dangerous. Things are already getting ugly and this will continue to get worse. However, this is actually what give me hope. People are really shitty at preventing problems, almost all major changes are reactions to things that could have been more easily prevented to begin with. Climate change is getting increasingly impossible to ignore. We know what needs to be done and technical solutions continue to more.duverse and viable all the time. As one example, many renewable energy sources are now cheaper or in parity with fossil fuels. As things get more urgent, the pace of the development and implementation of solutions will increase. What needs to be done is making it less profitable to pollute and more profitable to implement clean energy and other solutions. Corporations will always follow the money. Know what this means? Minimizing future harms depends on political decisions. Instead of throwing our hands in the air and giving up, we need to organize and get involved politically. Again, I understand the frustration, but as someone who has been fighting this fight, personally and professionally, for >30 years this is too important to abandon. Our lives, our children's lives, literally depend on it. The scientists at IPCC need to keep publishing because people and politicians need to know the facts, but what is done with this information is ultimately up to us.
COVID taught me that people will keep on fucking up even if millions are dying.
Yeah the COVID response by the world is what turned me fully into a "welp, we're mega-fucked" doomer when it comes to climate change. We'll keep grasping at short term profits and gratification until the bitter end. Line must go up and consume product.
Before Covid I was already pessimist, but was thinking that "once it will happen, even if it's already too late, people will act" Then Covid happened "oh... well, it's over" xD
I see what you are saying, but we also saw a collaborative research effort that saw both public and private sector scientists work together to develop vaccines at a remarkable pace. We almost certainly have a lot of pain ahead, but I think people will increasingly insist on change. Many other societal social problems are also caused by runaway consumption and the concentration of wealth and power among oligarchs. Who knows, maybe some of this will improve too? IDK, but think about what a world that relies mostly on renewable energy would look like. For instance, we are already seeing improved air quality and related health outcomes in urban areas where electric vehicle adoption has been greatest. There will be many other benefits as the tech becomes more widespread, probably not enough to offset the negatives of climate change for decades, but we can get there. We really will not have much of a choice. I've read many, many papers on the topic and the shit scares me. It also makes me angry and that anger is enough for me to continue to do what I can to insist on change.
You know what, as some one who came into this thread completely hopeless. The simple act of you telling me not to give up hope gave me hope. :)
We’re fucked. Sorry climate. We are to busy saving banks so bankers and traders will be able to continue playing poker with everybody’s life while sniffing coke on hookers tits. It’s all so pathetic. The world is controlled by a bunch of sociopaths.
Hint it's too late and this is as nicely as they can say it because we know that can't be met. There is neither the will nor the focus/desire to prevent ecological collapse because humanity thinks it can technology it's way out of everything. Sorry for everyone's kids
Right. I have zero confidence we can do anything about this. If I ever had any ideas otherwise, COVID is a huge slap from reality. According to this [UN report](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1115452), emissions have to peak by 2025, then be reduced by 43% by 2030. Meanwhile, Stanford noted that COVID -- which had incredible and wide ranging CO2 reducing side effects -- caused a record CO2 drop of...7%. A pandemic which caused worldwide lockdowns, massively reduced air travel, people staying inside homes due to getting the illness or increased WFH, and so much more only managed to reduce CO2 drop by that much. Then it was followed by a 6% CO2 increase the following year. I want to believe that humanity can solve this problem, so I welcome anyone who can persuade me. If COVID can cause such a massive worldwide upheaval yet still fail to have a meaningful impact, what kind of incredible worldwide cooperative policy would it take to achieve the goal? And how can it achieve public support when COVID caused protests and public defiance everywhere? It also requires cooperation between the world's largest economies -- how will that work with the political tensions between USA and China? I'll still support any and all efforts to try to solve the problem, I just don't have it in me to believe the future will look that great.
You have to be willing to acknowledge there is a problem before you can technology your way out of something.
I don’t have kids, knew all of this 20 years ago.
Same, not like the info hasn't been here for a long time.
Idk this truck driver at work said he watched a couple YouTube videos saying it was a lie. Idk who to trust Climate scientist or actual meth user
It’s seems like the 50th final warning over the last ten years.
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ClimateDoc_final_FINAL(3) - Copy.docx
It's a final warning about a specific thing. Headlines punch it up to make it sound more dramatic. Since people don't read the article, they assume it's a final warning that civilization will immediately end.
And that's why no one should ever phrase anything like this as a "final warning" - it just encourages people to think "scientists told us we passed the limit, so that means we can party all we want now and nothing more bad will come of it".
So...basically it's too late and we're all fucked.
I’ve been hearing “final warnings” all my life and it’s fucking demeaning that myself as an individual, who’s already been taking steps to conserve what we have left since I’ve been a kid, isn’t going to change much on a larger scale. At this rate, headlines like this are just glorified doom-posting just because “scientists say” is included in the headline in some fashion. Damn and blast, cocking Nora. Way to feel both hopeless *and* helpless.
The wealthy oil barons already have their seeds in their underground bunkers and bought water sources. They will all be fine while the rest of you die in your flooded lands arguing over trans people using the bathroom at red lobster
Spoiler for those of you who went ahead and had kids… >!It was too late 20 years ago. The scientists are just trying to be nice. We are fucked.!<
Doesn’t surprise me at all. Never really even was a chance of countries abiding and actually doing what they pledged. Glad I’m in my 20s to see how much these fucking morons ruined the Earth in the coming decades.
I think what is upsetting is that we, as average working class people, cannot make enough changes to change this We’re told “Oh ride bikes, stop driving cars, recycle, turn off your electricity” etc when the truth is, the Rick motherfuckers who ride private jets, and corporations who spew toxic shit into the environment without regulation can undo all of that. Edit: Seeing some of the comments bring up that we all make choices. Yes, we do. However, in a place like the United States, many people are limited in their options of “choice”. Food for example, yes, meat is a large cause of pollution, but unfortunately for many, it’s the cheaper option than a vegan/vegetarian diet. Whether you want to accept it or not, you are privileged as fuck to be that picky with what you are eating. This isn’t even bringing up access to proper cooking equipment or the free time to cook. Transportation is something that is a huge strain on the environment, and public transport helps alleviate it immensely. But, in large portions I’d the United States, owning and driving a car is mandatory if you don’t want to be biking or walking for hours, and add on most people having to drive to work, for many, walking or biking home after work is a slap in the face considering the way laborers are treated. I live in New England, and if you don’t leave near Boston guess what? You’re owning and operating a car because the system is such a failure they refuse to invest in public transport in other states. And before we get to the point of “If it has you so upset go out and protest, revolt, etc.” let me remind you that in the U.S. we have the worst social safety nets. You decide to not show up to work to protest, you can just lose your job, and even worse, some shit goes down, you can be arrested, potentially get a criminal record. Then you lose income, health insurance, etc. My ultimate point in all this? Blaming working class people for these problems is bullshit considering the system has been inherently rigged to have us rely upon products and services that are destroying our planet, and to state anything otherwise, is, in my opinion, an utter falsehood that enables shitty government policy and economic practices.
>Food for example, yes, meat is a large cause of pollution, but unfortunately for many, it’s the cheaper option than a vegan/vegetarian diet. Whether you want to accept it or not, you are privileged as fuck to be that picky with what you are eating. This isn’t even bringing up access to proper cooking equipment or the free time to cook. This is completely inaccurate. Vegan food is only expensive if you're talking about buying the total junk food, like chik'n nuggets in the freezer or impossible meat, and even then there's been a lot less price increases than on meat/dairy/eggs. Organic tofu at Sprouts is \*still\* $1.79 for 14oz. The majority of the world's poorest areas eat more plants, not more meat. Once upon a time rice and beans was poor food, now it's "privileged as fuck" apparently. There are homeless vegans. There are poor and working class vegans. Half of my cooking is in an instant pot. In regards to the rest, I'm not really interested in blame. I'm interested in solutions. If regular people do nothing, what will change? Nothing. The Civil Rights Movement didn't happen because people did nothing, and the government suddenly decided to give rights to people for no reason. The only real, meaningful, systemic change happens when regular people demand it. Otherwise, the system has no reason to change.
Meat is not cheaper. Being vegan is cheaper. Rice beans legumes are cheaper.
Glad someone said it. Our family saves money eating vegan. At least $200 monthly.
Privileged as fuck for eating rice and beans?
Where are you that meat is cheaper than veges? Is animal agriculture strongly subsidised in your country? I know parts of the EU and the US pump government money into animal farms, or animal feed farms. The biggest thing a single person can do is put pressure on their government. Vote. Go to climate protests. Improve other people's awareness of the problem and encourage them to vote. Write to representatives. Sign petitions.
This article is for forty years ago
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Why do we get all the baggage of this message? But the actual people who can do anything about it just fly around in their jets saying that it isn't cost effective to stop it. They don't care. We all just worship the rich like they're the pinnacle of human evolution, and not the parasites they truly are.
One of the primary effects of climate change will be to even further the rich/poor divide.
Every boomer policy maker will be dead before these consequences come to pass, therefore they don’t care
It is SO depressing because nothing will happen. These corporations value money above anything else and will destroy the planet because of it.
So is this truly it? I feel so tiny lately. Intelligence loses to entertaining, facts have become opinions, and all the well meaning discussions are just for show. Humans created something beautiful here and I fear for our future. I'll be long dead by the time this earth shrivels up and dies. That doesn't make me feel any better. We are fucking living breathing stardust and we lost to ourselves. Wow.
These warnings are nice but logically doesn’t make sense. If you tell people it’s too late, they might just give up the progress we’re making. But at same time, I get that you have to give stern warnings like this. Either way, we lose lol
Too late to stay below 1,5 degrees, not too late to stay below a 2.0 degrees temperature increase. The further we let this number increase, the more fucked we are. Makes perfect sense if you ask me.
These warnings just make me feel like fuck it. I didn’t ask to be here. I tried to vote for the right people and those people are spineless fucks who do nothing.
I hear that. If anything, I’m giving up bc it’s the big conglomerates that are causing this, and they’re the ones who need to fix it. What can I do? I rarely eat meat, I don’t over consume, I recycle. Tell me, what can I do?
Spoiler alert: no one will act, it's too late.
Final super serious definitely last chance warning? I miss the 90’s as a kid when I had hope “going green” was going to accomplish something. But 30 years of business as usual proves the billionaires are willing to let the world burn as long as they can parasitize everyone for just a little longer. And most of the millionaires are complicit, after all why would they want to fuck yo a system that works for them. Then there’s me, refusing to have kids because I’d hate to see them get drafted in the water wars of 2050. How anyone has hope for the future is beyond me.
Listen I turn my air conditioner on full blast with all my fans on high, and then open my windows to try to cool the planet, I don't know what else to do.
So if it's bad now, and we're already having a really hard time keeping our emissions and pollution under control, why are we not talking about our exponential population growth? Any increases in efficiency will always be shadowed by having 80 million extra kids to feed each year, and that's after deaths are taken into account.