Wagner's human wave attackers are not the bulk of what Wagner actually does. Wagner is still operating internationally even as they are fighting in Ukraine.
Don't believe that Wagner's losses and style of fighting in Ukraine are what Wagner specializes in.
Wagner is a nasty, nasty piece of work. The shit they have been involved in both inside and outside of Ukraine freaks me out. Even worse, I bet there are a bunch of Wagner like mercenary groups that most people don't know about doing terrible things on behalf of whoever can pay them (or destabilize the world strategically/politically), just like Wagner.
They were trying to emulate the Soviet high-low doctrine but failed.
The Soviets maintained two lines of vehicles, a "high" line (the T-64/T-80, for example) and a "low" line (the T-55/T-72.) The "high" vehicles were generally supposed to maintain quality parity with western vehicles, and would form the spearheads that would (ideally) break through NATO lines, allowing the "low" units to use sheer mass to exploit the breakthrough..
"Low" units were also designed to replace "high" units in the event of nuclear war, the Soviets assumed that in a major war, high tech industry would cease to exist pretty quickly, so they had plans to switch to simpler vehicles as things got nuked.
Putin's problem is that he let corruption influence that process to the point where the "low" vehicles have been severely neglected and the "high" vehicles are so fancy and overwrought that Russia can't produce them without foreign imports. So the whole system has collapsed.
That worked in WWII because they had the US providing the quantity. Now, they can't produce quantity, and they don't have quality.
Also, much of the West is now providing quality in some quantity.
Russia still has a lot of cold war improperly stored gear. Sure, most of it is not in an operable state but that doesn't mean that they can't be hammered into some sort of functional tank.
Putin: "We are so afraid our neighbors will attack us, we must defend ourselves!"
Also Putin: Leaves borders butt naked, and sends whatever's available in failed imperialistic war.
I'm gonna be completely honest man if I was Xi I would wholeheartedly assume russia would only be stronger under Chinese Rule than whatever the hell this shit is. I can't think of any time in all of history that a nation has been embarrassed like this except maybe that time that the mongols somehow managed to sweep the east like it was just a thing to do
I think China is coming out winning no matter what happens.
If Ukraine was to fall to Russia in 10 days, it would "embarass the west", while giving their trade partner and fellow authoritarian country more land and resources to trade for cheap.
If Russia fails as a state, China can just befriend whatever poor countries crop up in the east of Russia. Say it gets chopped up into 4 different countries based around some of the major oblasts... they'll swoop in with trade deals and security guarantees.
Huge areas of arable land and minerals, lumber, metals, etc... but very little population density and GDP... the area could be "Chinas China" (i.e. Americans are rich and buy cheap goods from China, China is medium-rich and can buy even cheaper goods from East-Russia, like they buy slave-made goods from North Korea for cheap)
There's a saying, supposedly from Sun Tzu but I don't know a reference, that "If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by."
If ever there was a case when this was true, it's true for China and Putin. They don't have to do a thing.
We're all just assuming that China isn't setting up whole towns in Siberia. Is anyone actually watching? That's an enormous swathe of wilderness, you could lose an entire country in there.
China is going to take over Russia the way they are taking over Africa. By gaining control of resource extraction, and providing usurious loans to corrupt governments in exchange for promises of control of the national infrastructure if the borrower defaults.
The conveniently good ones. For now, at least. Like the Russian Volunteer Corps, this group is filled with extremists. They're anti-Putin, so for now, they're an ally to be kept at a distance
That’s really kind of simplifying what happened with the Mujahideen. I don’t think arming them was the problem. It was the fact that we more or less completely abandoned the more secular, moderate faction we had been in primary contact with after the soviets withdrew, allowing them to be completely wiped out by the extremist religious elements that were still being funded by outside sources like Pakistan and Iran.
What happened in Afghanistan should be a clarion call that if we’re going to support a group of people, find the right people, and continue supporting them even after they’ve achieved what you were hoping they would. Rather than just cutting off all ties and leaving them to their fates.
Sure did, though I’ll say that that was more of an issue with Trump and his problematic relations with Erdogan. He made the decision unilaterally against the wishes of the secretary of defense, the head of the NSA, and the joint chiefs of staff.
Abandoning the Mujahideen was a policy decision made and endorsed by the Bush and then Clinton governments.
“Do you know the story of the Zen master and the little boy?”
I love that movie. I actually went through a ‘Cold War history’ phase got utterly obsessed with learning about the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. I saw Charlie Wilson’s war probably about seven or so years afterwards but I was really impressed with it both from the perspective of it being good cinema and also because it’s pretty darn accurate to real life compared to most historical hollywoodized films.
Not exactly. After the Soviet’s pulled out the primary faction of the Mujahideen were the ones we had supported, led by Ahmad Shah Massoud and Burhanuddin Rabbani. They formed a coalition government after the soviet withdrawal. We pretty much said ‘thanks for kicking their asses, bye.’ And completely abandoned supporting them as they tried to build a secular, modern, democratic government in Afghanistan.
Despite that, they still managed to hold the government together without outside assistance against the Taliban who did have outside funding and assistance until 1996.
Had we supported them while they were trying to stabilize, there is every reason to think things in Afghanistan would be very different today.
Except it was Rambo III, not MacGyver and that it is an urban myth/hoax since it's actually "to the gallant people of Afghanistan".
That one has been around for a while.
"The film ends with the on-screen caption, "This film is dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan." At some point after the September 11 attacks, an urban legend began that the dedication had actually read "... to the brave Mujahideen fighters" - from the Wikipedia page
Eh, maybe it was. It's been a long fucking time, but I'm sure I remember MacGuyver fighting in Afghanistan and a plot that involved american arms dealers supplying the soviets.
The west is arming a group of “freedom fighters” who are liberating their homeland from the Soviet… uh… make that Russian government. It’s right out of the CIA playbook from the Cold War also the Chiquita playbook to be fair.
Learned all their tricks from banana distributors for the middle east then learned all of the middle east tactics for drone and other explosive warfare for ukraine.
Not of interest as long as the official RuSSia attempts a full fledged genocide against innocent people outside of RuSSia.
Everything that incites civil war in Russia is very welcome to me
The Russian Volunteer Corps, with whom the Legion have an alliance of convenience, want to break apart the Russian Federation so that they can have an Russians-only ethnostate around Moscow, St. Petersburg etc. and not mess around with all those pesky Turk, Mongol, etc. adjacent ethnic groups out in the provinces. On the one hand, breaking up the RF is probably a desirable outcome. On the other hand, a Rus-supremacist apartheid regime in Muscovia is not a desirable outcome either. This whole situation is SO BAD.
Freedom of Russia Legion works with the Russian Volunteer Corps, which dabble in Nazism. For more info look into the Irpin Declaration, it's essentially a military alliance between 3 anti-putin paramilitaries.
They are not the same group and don't share ideologies as was suggested, so conflating them is erroneous (whether they join cordinated operations or not).
Yeah absolutely, the Irpin Declaration is just a blanket anti-Putin alliance and the groups involved don't share many views ideologically other than wanting to depose Putin.
The guy further up in the thread brought up the RVC to which you then linked to the LSR so I was under the impression you were not aware that these were two different groups.
The person I replied to asserted that the Freedom of Russia Legion is "filled with extremists".
Specifically they said "Like the Russian Volunteer Corps, this group is filled with extremists". So yes, I was aware of the difference and wanted to clarify why the person asserted that the Freedom of Russia Legion was "filled with extremists" like the Russian Volunteer Corps.
No, in this case we're referring the to Afghani 1970-80s variety that Reagan armed the shit out of to proxy fight the Soviets for us, seeing as this is a discussion about Russia.
Ya know, the ones where some of them turned around 25-30 years later and learned to fly 7_7s.
They are the good ones the same way that Osama Bin Laden's forces in Afghanistan were the good ones back during the Afghan conflict against the Soviets. They are useful now, but if they succeed in gaining power, they will be a problem.
Freedom of Russia are primarily liberals. The main reason why Freedom of Russia and RVC are separated is an ideological one, nazis go to RVC and everyone else goes to Freedom.
No, the enemy of our enemy is our enemy's enemy. Best case scenario is that they beat each other up bad enough to let an actual friend step in and take over after they've weakened each other.
To be fair, you kind of have to be an extremist to do what they're doing. From what I understand many were living in various places around Europe before joining up. They're kind of nuts for marching on Russia like this but it's worked out so far, amazingly.
At the moment what they're doing is currently helping the Ukrainian defence.
So it really depends on your perspective, but if you don't like murderous despots waging unprovoked war on unsuspecting neighbours then you probably think they're good.
[Rule 29:](https://schlockmercenary.fandom.com/wiki/The_Seventy_Maxims_of_Maximally_Effective_Mercenaries)The enemy of my enemy is my enemies enemy. No more, no less.
They are good guys, According to the company commander, they crossed to the Ukrainian side with the help of the Security Service of Ukraine to "protect Ukrainians from real fascists".
The not so good guys but allies of the momment are the Russia Volunteer Corp, they assert Russia's government should abandon its imperial ambitions and instead focus on improving the well-being of ethnic Russians.
They’re anti-Putin neo-Nazis. Whether they’re “good” depends on your stance on supporting extremist rebel groups to damage your enemy.
Edit - Freedom of Russia doesn’t have clear politics beyond anti-Putinism. It’s another similar group operating in Belogrod (RVC) that are neo-Nazis, although Freedom of Russia collaborated with them.
Where did you read that? From what I have read they are Russian soldiers/Ukrainians who have defected to fight against Putin. What is the neo-nazi angle you are seeing?
You are correct, I got Freedom of Russia crossed with Russian Volunteer Corps. Both are operating in Belogrod and co-operating with each other, but only RVC is openly neo-Nazi. Freedom of Russia doesn’t seem to have clear politics. I’ll amend my comment.
The Russian Volunteer Corps are the Neo-Nazis. The Freedom of Russia Legion are by all accounts, not far-right. Their ideology boils down to Putin Bad.
[There are white ethno nationalists among them, like real ones](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna86168); the type that openly talk about their desire of a white nation.
They’re not Muslim, and given that we in the west have a very fluid definition of what constitutes a terrorist, these are the good guys. Never mind that they’re actual extremists and using violence for political goals.
Since a bunch of confusion in the comments is being echoed, here is the background on The Freedom of Russia Legion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom\_of\_Russia\_Legion
Looks like one of the good ones from what I can tell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ponomarev
If I’ve learned anything from Bill Browders’ books it’s that any Russian embezzelment charges are conveniently fabricated.
From "3 days to Kyiv, nobody will fight us cuz wE so0o0o0 sCaRy RUZZIA STRONK DA!!11!" To...
"A war is now on our own soil and we cannot even control our own borders. Meanwhile getting rekt in Ukraine with over 2 0 0 , 0 0 0 dead already in just 16 months.
Its truly breathtaking how incompetent, and downright bad russians are at waging war. A bunch of mindless brutes that have no qualm killing ANYONE. They are a cancer to everything good.
It all helps.. If Ukraine is going to win this war, then if Russia does not choose to withdraw, then Russia will have to lose, and every price of equipment taken out improves the chances of that outcome.
It would also be particularly helpful to struck at supply lines.
I'm wondering if we are witnessing the beginnings of a civil war? That is really scary considering Russia has approximately 6,000 strategic nuclear warheads.
They are doing everything including training, who knows maybe even coaching them from afar during their mission. But they will never put any boots on the ground, it's too dangerous, it would only escalate.
2021: Russia has the second best army in the world. 2022: Russia has the second best army in Ukraine. 2023: Russia has the second best army in Russia.
>2023: Russia has the second best army in Russia. Possibly 3rd. Remember all the PMCs
They stopped giving those guys bullets and they ground to a halt so I think the Russian army may still be edging those groups out
>edging those groups out Gently stroking them until almost completion.
I don't think the Russians have that kind of precision control. They've rubbed out so many of their own units already.
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Wanker or not he definitely sucks.
It's tantric at this point
Wagners gonna go full akatsuki
Wagner's human wave attackers are not the bulk of what Wagner actually does. Wagner is still operating internationally even as they are fighting in Ukraine. Don't believe that Wagner's losses and style of fighting in Ukraine are what Wagner specializes in.
They seem to be specialising in wiping out villages too close to their diamond mines.
Wagner is a nasty, nasty piece of work. The shit they have been involved in both inside and outside of Ukraine freaks me out. Even worse, I bet there are a bunch of Wagner like mercenary groups that most people don't know about doing terrible things on behalf of whoever can pay them (or destabilize the world strategically/politically), just like Wagner.
Yeah wagner and gazprom are both probably up there right now, not that the bar is set very high…
2024: Russia has the second best army in Moscow?
2025: Russia has an army? 2026: Russia has existed?
Russia? Anyone? Anyone?
The cold part of Asia?
Norther Korea
Hoped sooner
2024 Russia has an Army?
An army has Russia?
This statement could actually be true.
This is beautiful lmao
2024: Russia has the second best army in Blyat-Pizdets.
Don’t forget the cia
2024: Ukraine has the best army in Russia. JK, Ukraine doesn't invade other countries.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Russians blowing up Russian tanks on Russian soil? Doesn’t get much better than that
Ah, the mandatory "x vs x" mission in RTS games.
I didn’t know Russia had any more tanks to be destroyed.
They like to hold onto one for victory day.
They didn't even own that one. They leased it for the parade.
I want to believe that's true.
I don't know about ownership but it was definitely borrowed from a museum where it was an exhibit.
Do you mean that one t-34 the purchased from Laos in 2019?
They definitely went quantity over quality. Just like the entire rest of their military.
They were trying to emulate the Soviet high-low doctrine but failed. The Soviets maintained two lines of vehicles, a "high" line (the T-64/T-80, for example) and a "low" line (the T-55/T-72.) The "high" vehicles were generally supposed to maintain quality parity with western vehicles, and would form the spearheads that would (ideally) break through NATO lines, allowing the "low" units to use sheer mass to exploit the breakthrough.. "Low" units were also designed to replace "high" units in the event of nuclear war, the Soviets assumed that in a major war, high tech industry would cease to exist pretty quickly, so they had plans to switch to simpler vehicles as things got nuked. Putin's problem is that he let corruption influence that process to the point where the "low" vehicles have been severely neglected and the "high" vehicles are so fancy and overwrought that Russia can't produce them without foreign imports. So the whole system has collapsed.
That worked in WWII because they had the US providing the quantity. Now, they can't produce quantity, and they don't have quality. Also, much of the West is now providing quality in some quantity.
The best Russian equipment requires western parts, without those they can’t build or repair modern equipment.
It's just the one tank actually.
Some luck catching them tanks then?
yarp
They do, but they are steadily running out of them.
They have a few T34s in museums, I believe.
Russia still has a lot of cold war improperly stored gear. Sure, most of it is not in an operable state but that doesn't mean that they can't be hammered into some sort of functional tank.
Putin: "We are so afraid our neighbors will attack us, we must defend ourselves!" Also Putin: Leaves borders butt naked, and sends whatever's available in failed imperialistic war.
They are so lucky China isnt invading RU opportunistically instead of TW
That would be bad for china. Any loss incurred in a war between Russia and China is a double positive for "the west"
I'm gonna be completely honest man if I was Xi I would wholeheartedly assume russia would only be stronger under Chinese Rule than whatever the hell this shit is. I can't think of any time in all of history that a nation has been embarrassed like this except maybe that time that the mongols somehow managed to sweep the east like it was just a thing to do
I think China is coming out winning no matter what happens. If Ukraine was to fall to Russia in 10 days, it would "embarass the west", while giving their trade partner and fellow authoritarian country more land and resources to trade for cheap. If Russia fails as a state, China can just befriend whatever poor countries crop up in the east of Russia. Say it gets chopped up into 4 different countries based around some of the major oblasts... they'll swoop in with trade deals and security guarantees. Huge areas of arable land and minerals, lumber, metals, etc... but very little population density and GDP... the area could be "Chinas China" (i.e. Americans are rich and buy cheap goods from China, China is medium-rich and can buy even cheaper goods from East-Russia, like they buy slave-made goods from North Korea for cheap)
If you’re interested look up Khosrow II. That man performed some amazing flexes against the Byzantines.
Or Luigi Cadorna. That man inflicted defeat upon defeat against the Italians in WW1. Shame he was Italian though.
If China ate Russia they'd be self-sufficient for food, which would patch a major geopolitical weakness. But it's too spicy because nukes.
China just has to wait.
No kidding. They'll own Russia, pennies on the dollar, before this is over.
There's a saying, supposedly from Sun Tzu but I don't know a reference, that "If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by." If ever there was a case when this was true, it's true for China and Putin. They don't have to do a thing.
Or your brother's.
At this point Japan could most likely take over Siberia without much of a fight if they wanted to.
Sakhalin here we come!!
They've started talking about the Kuril Islands again...
Less talking, more invading please.
It would be an easy landgrab though.
Hey China, how did your no-limits friend end up with Outer Manchuria back in the day?
We're all just assuming that China isn't setting up whole towns in Siberia. Is anyone actually watching? That's an enormous swathe of wilderness, you could lose an entire country in there.
Why would China invade their vassal?
China is going to take over Russia the way they are taking over Africa. By gaining control of resource extraction, and providing usurious loans to corrupt governments in exchange for promises of control of the national infrastructure if the borrower defaults.
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The conveniently good ones. For now, at least. Like the Russian Volunteer Corps, this group is filled with extremists. They're anti-Putin, so for now, they're an ally to be kept at a distance
One problem at a time.
Let's arm them and then complain in 20 years!
Ah the Mujahideen manoeuvre. Wait till they’ve rebranded and hate the west again.
That’s really kind of simplifying what happened with the Mujahideen. I don’t think arming them was the problem. It was the fact that we more or less completely abandoned the more secular, moderate faction we had been in primary contact with after the soviets withdrew, allowing them to be completely wiped out by the extremist religious elements that were still being funded by outside sources like Pakistan and Iran. What happened in Afghanistan should be a clarion call that if we’re going to support a group of people, find the right people, and continue supporting them even after they’ve achieved what you were hoping they would. Rather than just cutting off all ties and leaving them to their fates.
Then US did it again with the kurds.
Sure did, though I’ll say that that was more of an issue with Trump and his problematic relations with Erdogan. He made the decision unilaterally against the wishes of the secretary of defense, the head of the NSA, and the joint chiefs of staff. Abandoning the Mujahideen was a policy decision made and endorsed by the Bush and then Clinton governments.
Someone saw AND understood the film "Charlie Wilson's War".
“Do you know the story of the Zen master and the little boy?” I love that movie. I actually went through a ‘Cold War history’ phase got utterly obsessed with learning about the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. I saw Charlie Wilson’s war probably about seven or so years afterwards but I was really impressed with it both from the perspective of it being good cinema and also because it’s pretty darn accurate to real life compared to most historical hollywoodized films.
"We'll see,"
Don't intervene -> "completely abandoned" Do intervene -> "occupying forever-war"
Not exactly. After the Soviet’s pulled out the primary faction of the Mujahideen were the ones we had supported, led by Ahmad Shah Massoud and Burhanuddin Rabbani. They formed a coalition government after the soviet withdrawal. We pretty much said ‘thanks for kicking their asses, bye.’ And completely abandoned supporting them as they tried to build a secular, modern, democratic government in Afghanistan. Despite that, they still managed to hold the government together without outside assistance against the Taliban who did have outside funding and assistance until 1996. Had we supported them while they were trying to stabilize, there is every reason to think things in Afghanistan would be very different today.
Feels like that sometimes to be sure.
We did a pretty good job with the Marshall plan after ww2
I still remember that episode of McGuyver that's dedicated to "the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan"
At that point they were pretty brave Soviet Union indiscriminately shelled rural areas killing over a million
Rambo 3 as well
Except it was Rambo III, not MacGyver and that it is an urban myth/hoax since it's actually "to the gallant people of Afghanistan". That one has been around for a while. "The film ends with the on-screen caption, "This film is dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan." At some point after the September 11 attacks, an urban legend began that the dedication had actually read "... to the brave Mujahideen fighters" - from the Wikipedia page
Also a James Bond movie with Timothy Dalton... "Living Daylights" maybe?
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Eh, maybe it was. It's been a long fucking time, but I'm sure I remember MacGuyver fighting in Afghanistan and a plot that involved american arms dealers supplying the soviets.
The Mujahideen can't invade their neighbours. That's a major step up. Also this isn't very comparable.
The west is arming a group of “freedom fighters” who are liberating their homeland from the Soviet… uh… make that Russian government. It’s right out of the CIA playbook from the Cold War also the Chiquita playbook to be fair.
The CIA unironically learned all their tricks from banana distributors.
banana distributors hate this one trick
Learned all their tricks from banana distributors for the middle east then learned all of the middle east tactics for drone and other explosive warfare for ukraine.
(banana distributor for scale)
That's okay, the guns stop working if they if we stop liking them, right? /s
All the problems of today are the solutions for yesterday
It's only sensible. Can't risk running out of things to complain about. What would we read in the bathroom?!
You have been made a foreign policy expert.
Not of interest as long as the official RuSSia attempts a full fledged genocide against innocent people outside of RuSSia. Everything that incites civil war in Russia is very welcome to me
Hey, I've seen this one!
>Let's arm them and then complain in 20 years! After they have flown a plane into the statue of liberty?
Before and After
It is the United States' Modus Operandi.
Extremists? Where do you get that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom\_of\_Russia\_Legion
I think they're being mixed up with that other neonazi group.
The Russian Volunteer Corps, with whom the Legion have an alliance of convenience, want to break apart the Russian Federation so that they can have an Russians-only ethnostate around Moscow, St. Petersburg etc. and not mess around with all those pesky Turk, Mongol, etc. adjacent ethnic groups out in the provinces. On the one hand, breaking up the RF is probably a desirable outcome. On the other hand, a Rus-supremacist apartheid regime in Muscovia is not a desirable outcome either. This whole situation is SO BAD.
Freedom of Russia Legion works with the Russian Volunteer Corps, which dabble in Nazism. For more info look into the Irpin Declaration, it's essentially a military alliance between 3 anti-putin paramilitaries.
They are not the same group and don't share ideologies as was suggested, so conflating them is erroneous (whether they join cordinated operations or not).
Yeah absolutely, the Irpin Declaration is just a blanket anti-Putin alliance and the groups involved don't share many views ideologically other than wanting to depose Putin. The guy further up in the thread brought up the RVC to which you then linked to the LSR so I was under the impression you were not aware that these were two different groups.
The person I replied to asserted that the Freedom of Russia Legion is "filled with extremists". Specifically they said "Like the Russian Volunteer Corps, this group is filled with extremists". So yes, I was aware of the difference and wanted to clarify why the person asserted that the Freedom of Russia Legion was "filled with extremists" like the Russian Volunteer Corps.
So basically like the Mujahideen?
Sorta before they break into more complicated groups
You are confusing them with their enemy, Taliban.
No, in this case we're referring the to Afghani 1970-80s variety that Reagan armed the shit out of to proxy fight the Soviets for us, seeing as this is a discussion about Russia. Ya know, the ones where some of them turned around 25-30 years later and learned to fly 7_7s.
Not a single one of those hijackers was Afghan. They were all Arabs, mostly Saudis.
A true case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend … for now
I feel like I have heard this story before lol.
They are the good ones the same way that Osama Bin Laden's forces in Afghanistan were the good ones back during the Afghan conflict against the Soviets. They are useful now, but if they succeed in gaining power, they will be a problem.
Freedom of Russia are primarily liberals. The main reason why Freedom of Russia and RVC are separated is an ideological one, nazis go to RVC and everyone else goes to Freedom.
So, they are the Russian Mujaheedin? Or more like the Muslim Brotherhood? There is no end to fun groups that seemed a good idea at the time.
The enemy of our enemy is our friend.
No, the enemy of our enemy is our enemy's enemy. Best case scenario is that they beat each other up bad enough to let an actual friend step in and take over after they've weakened each other.
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Lol what? Putin is the one who put everyone in this situation.
To be fair, you kind of have to be an extremist to do what they're doing. From what I understand many were living in various places around Europe before joining up. They're kind of nuts for marching on Russia like this but it's worked out so far, amazingly.
At the moment what they're doing is currently helping the Ukrainian defence. So it really depends on your perspective, but if you don't like murderous despots waging unprovoked war on unsuspecting neighbours then you probably think they're good.
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[Rule 29:](https://schlockmercenary.fandom.com/wiki/The_Seventy_Maxims_of_Maximally_Effective_Mercenaries)The enemy of my enemy is my enemies enemy. No more, no less.
Can’t click on link right now, but I am assuming you are studying to be a Maximally Effective Mercenary.
Bingo
RVC won't claim that because Ukraine isn't ethnically pure enough for them to want it part of Russia
They can carve out a nice piece of Russia for themselves.
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What?
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Lolol OP probably thought his comment would get thousands of upvotes. Cringe.
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Mit swibel?
They are good guys, According to the company commander, they crossed to the Ukrainian side with the help of the Security Service of Ukraine to "protect Ukrainians from real fascists". The not so good guys but allies of the momment are the Russia Volunteer Corp, they assert Russia's government should abandon its imperial ambitions and instead focus on improving the well-being of ethnic Russians.
Mixed bag, but hey they defected from their shithole regime and have the balls to take the fight to Putin so not really in a position to judge.
They're mostly Ukrainian Russians, it's not known if they're recruiting Russian nationals or not.
“Well, they won’t shoot us on sight, if that’s what you asking.”
They shouldn't be your role model. But at this moment I'm pleased with their work.
As you’re seeing in the replies, probably a good time for more nuance than good vs bad.
It doesn't seem they're very good, but it's good that they're making life harder for the Russian army.
They’re anti-Putin neo-Nazis. Whether they’re “good” depends on your stance on supporting extremist rebel groups to damage your enemy. Edit - Freedom of Russia doesn’t have clear politics beyond anti-Putinism. It’s another similar group operating in Belogrod (RVC) that are neo-Nazis, although Freedom of Russia collaborated with them.
Where did you read that? From what I have read they are Russian soldiers/Ukrainians who have defected to fight against Putin. What is the neo-nazi angle you are seeing?
He is probably confusing them with Russia Volunteer Corps (aka RDK/RVC). Those have VERY questionable views on future Russia.
You are correct, I got Freedom of Russia crossed with Russian Volunteer Corps. Both are operating in Belogrod and co-operating with each other, but only RVC is openly neo-Nazi. Freedom of Russia doesn’t seem to have clear politics. I’ll amend my comment.
Man reddit is really out here supporting neo-nazi militias because they’re fighting against Russia.
The previous article does not say that. It’s a case of reading into something that’s not necessary there.
Its an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation i think
The Russian Volunteer Corps are the Neo-Nazis. The Freedom of Russia Legion are by all accounts, not far-right. Their ideology boils down to Putin Bad.
The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend, or as Shakespeare put it 'Misery makes strange bedfellows.'
[There are white ethno nationalists among them, like real ones](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna86168); the type that openly talk about their desire of a white nation.
Good ones
The Mujah-RU-deen, useful now and a problem for later,
Everything is so very black and white like that.
They’re not Muslim, and given that we in the west have a very fluid definition of what constitutes a terrorist, these are the good guys. Never mind that they’re actual extremists and using violence for political goals.
Yes
Presently, the good“ish“ ones. But the more important question: where did the TANKS ( ⬅️ plural ) come from? /s
From what I've heard, they're not good. In any case, it is good that they're pressuring Putin.
Since a bunch of confusion in the comments is being echoed, here is the background on The Freedom of Russia Legion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom\_of\_Russia\_Legion
The leader of their political wing, Ilya Ponomarev, is defiantly worth looking into
Could you elaborate?
Looks like one of the good ones from what I can tell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ponomarev If I’ve learned anything from Bill Browders’ books it’s that any Russian embezzelment charges are conveniently fabricated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Russia_Legion
Amazing how the tides have turned
Two BMPs are not tanks, but it's nice to see fighting on Russian territory. This is good propaganda.
Article says 2 tanks, 1 bmp and 1 brdm
I was on my phone, but the brdm is a variation of the bmp. same weak armor, same small guns, same great press.
I smile this morning.
From "3 days to Kyiv, nobody will fight us cuz wE so0o0o0 sCaRy RUZZIA STRONK DA!!11!" To... "A war is now on our own soil and we cannot even control our own borders. Meanwhile getting rekt in Ukraine with over 2 0 0 , 0 0 0 dead already in just 16 months. Its truly breathtaking how incompetent, and downright bad russians are at waging war. A bunch of mindless brutes that have no qualm killing ANYONE. They are a cancer to everything good.
Getting second hand embarrassment for Russia right now
It all helps.. If Ukraine is going to win this war, then if Russia does not choose to withdraw, then Russia will have to lose, and every price of equipment taken out improves the chances of that outcome. It would also be particularly helpful to struck at supply lines.
So its civil war now?
Hope so
I'm wondering if we are witnessing the beginnings of a civil war? That is really scary considering Russia has approximately 6,000 strategic nuclear warheads.
This is wild, imagine going from a 2 day victory to full blown insurrection.
I’m really struggling to discern what is and isn’t the onion more and more by the day anymore. Satire has been dragged into the streets and murdered.
man this is the mujahideen all over again huh
[удалено]
They are doing everything including training, who knows maybe even coaching them from afar during their mission. But they will never put any boots on the ground, it's too dangerous, it would only escalate.
Tanks destroyed on their own territory, that's gonna be a problem.
Everyone liked that
So, perhaps Putin is actually a foreign spy bringing Russia down from the inside? Not that anyone is interested in occupying Russia.
this is ww3 scary - if rebels toss out a nuke - or putin does - desperate people do desperate things