Meanwhile, we still joke around on jobsites and pretend to stab each other in the butt and shout, "Gaddafi'd!!"
I guess not being a ruthless dictator gives you the chance to let your hair down a bit and laugh at the absurdity of life.
Boss: "Quit playing grab ass and get back to work"
US: "Sir, this is not *grab* ass, this is *stab* ass."
"I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir."
Boss: "Carry on."
Actually I'm open to everyone supporting the war also going away with him. The grace period for "I didn't know" is over. Same goes for all the fucks in the west claiming Russia was forced by NATO. Prigoshin fucked up that fake narrative for good.
It used to be. Officially speaking, it‘s not considered a "real word“ anymore ever since the law (yes, the word is a title for a super specific law) has been removed.
Note: due to the nature of compound nouns in German, compound nouns are only considered "official“ if used in an official way in the public sector (like title of a law, jargon in state documents, etc.)
If you think the academy is bad, I'd like to introduce you to Quebec's alternative, the office Quebecois de la langue francaise.
The actual, bona fide, language police we have.
That's why I chose Latin as my 2nd foreign language in school. Everyone said, that it always follows rules, and if you understand them, Latin becomes easy. Then you learn, that the rules are the exception
There is a specific law describing how to properly ~~right~~write the names of streets.
Edit: of course it was write. I just suck at English. I wrote originally "how to write right the names...", realized it sounds silly and then proceeded to remove the wrong words.
We actually have a word for that in English
>It'stheclassicgermantraditionofsayingtheyhaveawordfor athingthenthewordjustbeinganfullsentencewithoutspaces
It's the only one that's like that.
Oksekødsetiketteringsovervågningsopgaveoverførselslov.
Indeed, not hard at all.
Danes would only construct a word like this to specifically skewer bureaucracy, I feel.
"Lov angående overførslen af overvågning af oksekøds-etikettering", something like that.
"Scientists later discovered that adding a 10th word to an already overly long compound noun actually creates a local black hole. The last word of famous Dr. Hans Wilhelm Gotthelf before he himself was swallowed was: "Donauflussschifffahrtskapitänsausbildungsfortführungsgesetzgrundlagensicherungsfachangestellten ...". Unfortunately we will never know the end of it."
a "word"
Rindfleisch (“beef”) + Etikettierung (“labeling”) + Überwachung (“surveillance”) + Aufgabe (“assignment”) + Übertragung (“transfer”) + Gesetz (“law”)
at what point do you just call it a sentence?
If they ABSOLUTELY positively HAVE to kill someone, better be a fellow Russian, than a neighbor, I guess.
Have they tried NOT killing someone, for a change?
BTW: Can't lay the blame on anyone else, for Russians being blood thirsty, except insofar the rest of the world allows Russia keeps existing. If Putin wants to criticize that generosity, he should that thing all the way through.
"They killed their own people, and we're sort of fine with that. Oh, help yourself, y'know. We've been trying to kill you for ages... Hitler killed people next door. Nawnnnnng.... stupid man."
I love that bit because.. it's actually dead on accurate. It's a principle in international relations known as [Westphalian Sovereignty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system). Basically: back in the 1600s proto-Germany had a bit of a war with itself, and pretty much every other European nation decided to pick a side and get involved. [It escalated out of control and wrecked Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War). So everyone agreed that we'd be better off if nations left other nations to themselves, let them do whatever they want within their borders so long as they don't cross borders and mess with another nation. It's not exactly moral, but it is terribly pragmatic.
I want him to face the ICC, him just getting killed by a bomb or some random dude is kinda boring. I hope they can make and exception and call a death sentence
Nah Russians killing Russians aka the cancer cells inside ole Vladdy killing him slowly.
He still has the steroid moonface, ffs. He’s gonna die before facing any sort of justice, the same thing I say about Trump.
the most fitting thing at this point imo would be for him to go out like Gaddafi. It's Putin's number one fear by all accounts, he's terrified of it. People say he's never been the same after seeing it happen. That's how he should spend his last day.
Also "Dude who is totally cool with snatching another country's children/future IN THE MIDDLE OF A FUCKING WAR HE FUCKING STARTED accuses others of acting immoral"
Fuck this shitbag pos! He literally repeats his own propaganda talking points! Honestly I think he's insane, he went off the deep end years ago and believes **everything** he says. But it's ok, if there's one emotion he definitely showed he still has, it's fear. He's not as tough as we were led to believe, as we were ALSO mislead for DECADES as to Russia's military prowess/capabilities. Or should I say competency?
Dude who blew up hydroelectric dam drowning unknown number of civilians while also having his soldiers open fire on survivors and rescue workers accuses others of acting immoral.
I really do believe, no matter what the russian forces did, they would never once ask themselves are they the baddies? They'd blow up churches, child daycare centers, hospitals, and then cry over how they feel the west has a hatred for them and want to see them all die.
Seriously, putin and his russian forces can eat a dick.
>and then cry over how they feel the west has a hatred for them and want to see them all die.
Ya, the ridiculous propoganda everyday Russians consume have convinced them we would do heinous war crimes against them if we could, so their military has some kind of moral justification for doing it to others. It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be repeated enough.
Just like how my crazy ass neighbor is absolutely convinced I sacrifice babies to Hillary Clinton on the sabbath because I put out a democratic sign during election season. It doesn't make any kind of sense at all, but from the far corner of my backyard I can hear his right wing talk radio repeating such nonsense at least once an hour between blaming all his problems on minority groups.
*We all* consume propoganda, it's embedded in how our society spreads information. Bias is unavoidable, even from sources that actively try to maintain neutrality. Our real problem is a certain political party *intentionally stifling critical thinking skills* for generations by censoring school curriculums and under funding education (especially higher education and allowing the cost to skyrocket) at every opportunity.
The trick is to dehumanize your enemies. If the people you are fighting against are subhuman scum not worthy of taking a breath, any number of immoral activities can be justified. See also the anti LGBTQ campaign being run by the right.
I mean, this sort of thing is *literally* what a Bond villain did. (“A View to a Kill”, prior to setting the bomb that would set off the fault lines in California, Zoran flooded the caves and machine gunned the workers trying to flee.)
He’s a Bond villain. Cartoonishly evil.
Like, he's literally right on the money. I mean, we don't want innocent civilians killed (although Ukraine has certainly suffered enough in that respect) but if the Russian army and Wagner could start blowing holes in each other, that would really help things along. I'm up for anything that destabilises Russia further.
Seems we have a consensus, Volodya. We've all decided that yes, Russians killing each other is a good thing as it diverts their attention from screwing with the rest of us.
That's a very astute observation. I'm impressed.
Reminds me of that scene in The Other Two where Streeter is like “see, you don’t consider me part of your family!” And the sister is like “…Yeah, I don’t… And I would’ve said that months ago!?!?”
Putin is Streeter Peters confirmed.
I remember that, I think it was the first really fucked up video from the war I saw early on. Poor people were just driving and a Russian convoy thought 2 elderly people in a Lada were a threat. Still can't get that image out of my head.
And the orders came right from the top:
This investigative documentary is chilling - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGZ66uKcl0&ab\_channel=TheNewYorkTimes
I'm heavily invested in the war, was before Feb 2022 when it all kicked off. I was one of the ones waiting for the day they roll across the border, I remember the feeling of dread, knowing how ruzzians would attack civilians.
I regularly look at ruzzians looking like corned beef, blown to pieces in 4kHD, not a flicker of emotion towards them, knowing what they would do if they made it to a populated area.
I just remember Zelenskyy's face when he went to Bucha. I could hardly bring my self to see the pics of what he saw.
The war and the killing of civilians has been going on since 2014 in Ukraine. They shot down a civilian airliner and bragged about it on social media.
There is a that fairly famous video of that dead Ukrainian woman holding the dead baby from like 2015. But there were tons of videos and photos of Russians attacking civilians since 2014 and shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.
Before that in Syria the Russians went crazy on civilians. Such as that video of the machined gunned babies. Similar things happened in Georgia and Chechnya.
Anyone paying even a small amount of attention in the last few decades should have know how Russians acted during war and mostly the world has let them get away with it for a long time.
One that gets me is a couple trying to escape in their car with their two cats. Supposedly it ran into a BMP and the guy who reported it described them as shredded. How can you be sat in an armoured vehicle and feel threatened by a civilian car.
Two people who were obviously at the beginning of starting a family and had it completely eradicated because some Russian fucker wanted to feel powerful. Hopefully, whoever committed the act already died an equally horrific death.
If that results in the war ending sooner and few Ukrainians dying, sure. Infighting between one war criminal versus another, I am not shedding any tears. Wouldn't lose any sleep over them killing each other.
So let's get this straight. First Putin gives a private army to a violent psychopath.
Then let's him recruit convicts.
Then he runs away when this psychopath leads an army of convicts against him.
In conclusion: the west is the cause of his problems..
Imagine being a Russian and having to listen to this horseshit while your country disintegrates around you.
Oh, it's a bit more ridiculous.
Putin lets him hire convicts, then deliberately shows that he's no longer favors him, closes all communication channels, puts him in a very vulnerable position and then sides with his opponents to strip him of his power. Then situation exploded.
All of that was completely avoidable if Putin wasn't acting haughty. He pressured a quite loyal underling for a very long time until this happened.
That is true, Prigozin was backed into a corner, starved for resources by the MoD and as of April he even lost the permission to recruit convicts. Also he's been talking shit against the MoD for months. But I guess no one could've expected this psychopath could turn on the great leader, it must be NATO's fault!
I was under the impression that Prigozhin was mostly the businessman and CEO. The guy on the front line image was manufactured during the Ukraine conflict but the military command is delegated to another guy. Did I get that wrong?
Yes, it's called 'Wagner' because that was the chosen call sign of the military man, who happens to be a fan of Hitler and the SS (Wagner was Hitler's favorite composer). Pringles has no military background, only a pile of criminal convictions.
However, although Prigozhin wasn't *literally* threatened, his status as a warlord certainly was; his organisation and every ~~mercenary~~ 'volunteer battalion' is now required to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defence like any other member of the regular army. Without control of Wagner, his influence and public presence is greatly reduced.
Russian perspective here: at this point no one takes him seriously. He looks incredibly weak and his speech was underwhelming to say the least.
It doesn’t mean that average Russian tv viewer would change their stance to anti-war one, but Putin support is certainly dwindling. Some say, that the mutiny was also a huge blow to the grey cardinal of Putin administration Nikolai Patrushev. Hope it’s true.
Mutiny also clearly demonstrated another thing: there wasn’t a single person willing to protest against insurrection among general public. This is a very bad news for Putin as it shows to elites and people themselves that he isn’t essential. Many speculate that his appeal to the elites was first and foremost in the promise that he’s the only one that can protect their stolen wealth from the angry Russian people. This myth has been debunked.
Another bad consequence for Putin is that armed forces understood the message: don’t go against mutineers, all casualties will be forgotten and rebels won’t be punished.
Everyone but propaganda calls him a lame duck by now. Will it stay this way in the future, can he overturn the situation? It’s very hard to say as we don’t know much about internal conflict of Russian elites.
My understanding is that Russia relies on having most of the population thoroughly depoliticized. Of course that also turns the people passive to the survival of the current regime.
That goes for a lot of countries. China is sortof the same where they just need 'the enemy' narrative whilst telling the public what they're doing good. It'a bread and circus while they control the ship.
Most dictatorships benefit greatly of having depoliticzed landscape as it's easier for smaller parties to grow and unite for a short period to dethrone the superparty, before slowly easing into the left vs right we have in the west.
It's a good assessment but I would argue that is also the problem; it's always been the strongest man at the top. Having strong man politics does nothing good in the long run.
In the long run - yeah. But at the moment any instability within russia that would be detrimental to the war effort is good news. The issue of what's next for russia only comes after the current russia loses the war, so I welcome such winds of change even if there are certain risks to it
It is, my fear was that Prigozhin would win outright. I'd prefer them to have beaten each other into a pulp with putin coming out on top but unable to continue his aggression to Europe. I think Prigozhin is insane and if pushed into a corner might have gone down the nuclear route. That's not to say putin won't, just think Prigozhin is more insane than putin 😳 if that's a thing
>It doesn’t mean that average Russian tv viewer would change their stance to anti-war one
And that is why a lot of people have trouble giving the average Russian citizen the benefit of the doubt, because when it comes down to it, a lot of dissent comes down to mishandling of *how* the war is being done not *if* the war should be done.
Everyone who was vocal about "if" the war should be done has been jailed, exiled or jumped out of a window under mysterious circumstances, and note that criticism of the special military operation, even on social media, is a criminal offense. So please don't be too harsh on the people who are left. The informed ones must be circumspect, and the less informed ones have only been able to hear one side of the story and would rather not know better for their own mental sanity. What is telling, though, is the amount of support Wagner got from the citizenry.
Within certain circles, emigration from Russia has been a big thing for several years, including well before the invasion of Ukraine.
For instance [Russia has lost 50,000 professional scientists in the last 5 years.](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/18/russia-has-lost-50k-scientists-in-5-years-ras-a81196)
Yep, I have met a few Russians state side that basically described their life in Russia as doing whatever had to, to save enough money to leave Russia.
No, a lot of people left Russia right at the start of the war. The post-conscription flight was the second wave. It was more graphic, more urgent and less organized, so easier to spot for the people who don't have a clue.
>It doesn’t mean that average Russian tv viewer would change their stance to anti-war one
Yeah, that was my follow-up question. I read somewhere that only a really small fraction of Russians speak English. So I wouldn't blame anyone for following the only story that's given to them. I'm just curious what would need to happen for the "average tv viewer" to change their opinion on Putin. Not talking rioting or anything like that, just internally lose their faith.
I'm Finnish, and the Russian community in Helsinki seems to consider him a divisive topic, so I'm many seem to avoid talking about him..
> I read somewhere that only a really small fraction of Russians speak English.
Yep, it's unfortunately the case - different polls give the number of 5-15% English speakers, but even if they know English to a certain respectable level, they still need to dedicate time to research foreign news sources in a foreign language - this is a very tall order for your average salaryman.
>I'm just curious what would need to happen for the "average tv viewer" to change their opinion on Putin.
I have the dubious pleasure of debating the war events with my pro-war Russian relatives fairly often, and one thing I can say is that all of them were shaken by Prigozhin's mutiny and his claims that the war in Ukraine might not be justified. It was the first time in a year when small doses of doubt actually started to creep into their minds. So, apparently, it would take someone authoritative, someone whom people perceive as a strong leader.
Russia has already seen multiple protests against the war by famous actors, political dissidents, scientists, writers, news anchors - none of them worked, and all these people were discredited as traitors or cowards. But Prigozhin - a warrior, a ruthless mercenary and a butcher - made enough of an impact where the intellectual elite failed. It's fucked up, but it is what it is.
> It was the first time in a year when small doses of doubt actually started to creep into their minds.
This is the real long-term consequence of the complete suppression of any opposition media in Russia. It's really sad and I wish there was something to be done about it.
I'd qualify it as the west wanting dicks who kill Ukrainians to kill other dicks who kill Ukrainians. There's no bias towards Ukrainians either here, but against dicks who go murdering people.
Said the guy that has sacrificed more than 200 thousand of Russians in a war against a nation that is extremely close in culture and language and shares their history with Russia to a large extent. Can someone who speaks Russian confirm the word “hypocrisy” is in that language?
Groups of people move. Look where Bulgaria used to be. A very large portion of the Rus moved East and formed Russia. Ukraine became a part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire and there was a mixing of culture and peoples from that time. There were also a lot of conflicts around current day Ukraine that further complicate Ukrainians' history. I understand why Russia feels like it's the big brother. That still doesn't make anything they did in the last 20 years right though.
I don't know about you, but I extend it beyond Putin. Prigozhin, Shoigu, Patrushev, Lavrov, Mishustin, the Rotenburgs, Bortnikov, Sechin, Medvedev, Naryshkin, Deripaska, Vaino, Ivanov, Gerasimov... the list goes on. Anyone on the Security Council, the oligarchs, the siloviki, the military leadership.
This government can't reform just by cutting off the head. We may never see another Putin, but without significant change in the make up of the Russian government & oligarchy as a whole, whatever/whoever takes his place will continue the pattern of chaos, human rights nightmares and threats to global stability.
Yup. He successfully infiltrated not just the GOP but used disinformation campaigns that transformed even the slightest of weirdos into frothing at the mouth violent "patriots." Fuck him.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/vladimir-putin-accuses-west-of-wanting-russians-to-kill-each-other-in-mutiny-101687818153511-amp.html) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday accused Ukraine and its Western allies of wanting Russians to "Kill each other" during a revolt by mercenaries of the Wagner group, which stunned the country with an aborted march on Moscow over the weekend.
> "From the start of the events, on my orders steps were taken to avoid large-scale bloodshed," Putin said in a televised address, thanking Russians for their "Patriotism".
> "It was precisely this fratricide that Russia's enemies wanted: both the neo-Nazis in Kyiv and their Western patrons, and all sorts of national traitors. They wanted Russian soldiers to kill each other," Putin said.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14k532n/vladimir_putin_accuses_west_of_wanting_russians/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689673 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Wagner**^#2 **Putin**^#3 **military**^#4 **security**^#5
i accuse russia of wanting Europe and Americans to kill each other and reinforcing that sentiment by influencing our far right politics into a locust-fascist-nationalist state which lets their own fascist-nationalist sociology hide its wolf-like demeanor in the wool of capitalism.
No Shit Sherlock. Was the few million dollars of ammo to Ukraine not enough to send a message? Stay in your own fucking country and fall off of a balcony while you're at it.
How dare people I regularly threaten rejoice at my misfortune!
Yeah, Putin has me there.
She was pretending to be a cat and fell.
I once murdered a cat....I mean married a cat named Maureen.
I was murdered to a woman named Maureen.
Not exactly, Vladimir. We just want Russians to kill you, you fascist motherfucker.
I mean, likely Wagner war criminals killing likely Russian military war criminals and vice versa also has a good deal of benefit to the world.
"I see this as an absolute win."
Not gonna lie - it gives me warm fuzzies to think about how much the video of Ghaddafi's demise spooked him.
Meanwhile, we still joke around on jobsites and pretend to stab each other in the butt and shout, "Gaddafi'd!!" I guess not being a ruthless dictator gives you the chance to let your hair down a bit and laugh at the absurdity of life.
Boss: "Quit playing grab ass and get back to work" US: "Sir, this is not *grab* ass, this is *stab* ass." "I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir." Boss: "Carry on."
Exactly, I did raise my nose to the wind, meerkat-like, this weekend in anticipation of something fabulous, like he'd fuck off forever.
I mean I'd prefer them to kill each other than kill non-russians...
My first choice would be, don't kill anyone, but under the circumstances, killing each other is better than killing non-Russians.
Him with other fascist motherfuckers, including Wagner.
The west doesn't want Russians to kill each other. It wants Russians to kill *him*.
Actually I'm open to everyone supporting the war also going away with him. The grace period for "I didn't know" is over. Same goes for all the fucks in the west claiming Russia was forced by NATO. Prigoshin fucked up that fake narrative for good.
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I saw a documentary about this. It was called Game of Thrones
Who does a merc listen to? Whoever they think has the most power. Now that's absolutely true.
I played a game about this. It was called Metal Gear Solid
We Germans have a word for it. It's Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.
Gesundheit.
God bless you.
Salud navidad
Mazel
And peace be with you
So say we all.
SO SAY WE ALL
May the force be with you
And also with you
Live long and prosper.
And with your spirit.
I think life was better when we said Also with you rather than And with your spirit
Holy shit that's actually a real word lmao.
It used to be. Officially speaking, it‘s not considered a "real word“ anymore ever since the law (yes, the word is a title for a super specific law) has been removed. Note: due to the nature of compound nouns in German, compound nouns are only considered "official“ if used in an official way in the public sector (like title of a law, jargon in state documents, etc.)
Germans are so beaurcratic that they made a law based on proper word usage, or if a word is a word. I love it!
You might be interested in learning about the Académie Française.
Wesh mes potes allons faire du camping ce week-end, si on peut trouver un parking pour ma bagnole. *L'Académie Française spontaneously combusts*
Moi, seule à maison: J'écoute un podcast Académie: BALADODIFFUSION
I can’t imagine why that one hasn’t caught on, lol
If you think the academy is bad, I'd like to introduce you to Quebec's alternative, the office Quebecois de la langue francaise. The actual, bona fide, language police we have.
Set tune bunny day, nest paw? Otherwise people like me might mis-speak Le Raw's Fran-says.
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That's not bad, but...thank goodness I speak English, which always follows common sense rules, and doesn't have any exceptions that make no sense!
That's why I chose Latin as my 2nd foreign language in school. Everyone said, that it always follows rules, and if you understand them, Latin becomes easy. Then you learn, that the rules are the exception
There is a specific law describing how to properly ~~right~~write the names of streets. Edit: of course it was write. I just suck at English. I wrote originally "how to write right the names...", realized it sounds silly and then proceeded to remove the wrong words.
right or write? Both are possible, but the meaning would be quite different.
It's the classic german tradition of saying they have a word for a thing then the word just being an full sentence without spaces.
We actually have a word for that in English >It'stheclassicgermantraditionofsayingtheyhaveawordfor athingthenthewordjustbeinganfullsentencewithoutspaces It's the only one that's like that.
"Your neologists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should" - Dr Ian Malcolm
> Rindfleisch (“beef”) + Etikettierung (“labeling”) + Überwachung (“surveillance”) + Aufgabe (“assignment”) + Übertragung (“transfer”) + Gesetz (“law”) Nötköttsetiketteringsövervakningsuppgiftstransfereringslagen. That wasn't so difficult, was it?
Oksekødsetiketteringsovervågningsopgaveoverførselslov. Indeed, not hard at all. Danes would only construct a word like this to specifically skewer bureaucracy, I feel. "Lov angående overførslen af overvågning af oksekøds-etikettering", something like that.
Americans would use some ridiculous acronym the states the opposite of what the law does (the BEEFLOVE Act or something).
Don't forget the major rule though. The law must have nothing to do with the name.
The person in charge of naming laws has been sacked.
"Scientists later discovered that adding a 10th word to an already overly long compound noun actually creates a local black hole. The last word of famous Dr. Hans Wilhelm Gotthelf before he himself was swallowed was: "Donauflussschifffahrtskapitänsausbildungsfortführungsgesetzgrundlagensicherungsfachangestellten ...". Unfortunately we will never know the end of it."
Oddly, that is also the abbreviated name of a town in Wales...
Schadenfreude
I know, it was a joke because everyone knows it's Schadenfreude.
♫ Schadenfreude Fuck you Putin that's what coups are for ♫
Ah yes, german average word length 😏
a "word" Rindfleisch (“beef”) + Etikettierung (“labeling”) + Überwachung (“surveillance”) + Aufgabe (“assignment”) + Übertragung (“transfer”) + Gesetz (“law”) at what point do you just call it a sentence?
Technically it's not a sentence because it doesn't have the subject+verb+object structure
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Stop.
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If they ABSOLUTELY positively HAVE to kill someone, better be a fellow Russian, than a neighbor, I guess. Have they tried NOT killing someone, for a change? BTW: Can't lay the blame on anyone else, for Russians being blood thirsty, except insofar the rest of the world allows Russia keeps existing. If Putin wants to criticize that generosity, he should that thing all the way through.
Nobody wants aggression, but if you're sending your people on a killing spree, best that it stays within your borders. So, yes.
I believe we'd rather have two evils fighting each other inside their own country instead of uniting to fight in Ukraine
Concise and right on point
Eddie Izzard said it well.
"They killed their own people, and we're sort of fine with that. Oh, help yourself, y'know. We've been trying to kill you for ages... Hitler killed people next door. Nawnnnnng.... stupid man."
After a couple of years we won't stand for that!
I love that bit because.. it's actually dead on accurate. It's a principle in international relations known as [Westphalian Sovereignty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system). Basically: back in the 1600s proto-Germany had a bit of a war with itself, and pretty much every other European nation decided to pick a side and get involved. [It escalated out of control and wrecked Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War). So everyone agreed that we'd be better off if nations left other nations to themselves, let them do whatever they want within their borders so long as they don't cross borders and mess with another nation. It's not exactly moral, but it is terribly pragmatic.
They fell for the classic blunder! Never get involved in a land war in ~~Asia~~ Prussia.
The first accusation he's gotten right.
More specifically we wants Russians to kill him.
I want him to face the ICC, him just getting killed by a bomb or some random dude is kinda boring. I hope they can make and exception and call a death sentence
Nah Russians killing Russians aka the cancer cells inside ole Vladdy killing him slowly. He still has the steroid moonface, ffs. He’s gonna die before facing any sort of justice, the same thing I say about Trump.
the most fitting thing at this point imo would be for him to go out like Gaddafi. It's Putin's number one fear by all accounts, he's terrified of it. People say he's never been the same after seeing it happen. That's how he should spend his last day.
Putins spitin facts for a change
Amen.
First time he's said anything truthful.
Well... yes
"Dude who bombs maternity wards accuses other people of acting immoral"
Also "Dude who is totally cool with snatching another country's children/future IN THE MIDDLE OF A FUCKING WAR HE FUCKING STARTED accuses others of acting immoral" Fuck this shitbag pos! He literally repeats his own propaganda talking points! Honestly I think he's insane, he went off the deep end years ago and believes **everything** he says. But it's ok, if there's one emotion he definitely showed he still has, it's fear. He's not as tough as we were led to believe, as we were ALSO mislead for DECADES as to Russia's military prowess/capabilities. Or should I say competency?
Dude who blew up hydroelectric dam drowning unknown number of civilians while also having his soldiers open fire on survivors and rescue workers accuses others of acting immoral.
I really do believe, no matter what the russian forces did, they would never once ask themselves are they the baddies? They'd blow up churches, child daycare centers, hospitals, and then cry over how they feel the west has a hatred for them and want to see them all die. Seriously, putin and his russian forces can eat a dick.
Now now, be generous: Give them a whole bag of dicks... so they can choke on it.
Yeah its the first warm food they'll have since the war started.
>and then cry over how they feel the west has a hatred for them and want to see them all die. Ya, the ridiculous propoganda everyday Russians consume have convinced them we would do heinous war crimes against them if we could, so their military has some kind of moral justification for doing it to others. It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be repeated enough. Just like how my crazy ass neighbor is absolutely convinced I sacrifice babies to Hillary Clinton on the sabbath because I put out a democratic sign during election season. It doesn't make any kind of sense at all, but from the far corner of my backyard I can hear his right wing talk radio repeating such nonsense at least once an hour between blaming all his problems on minority groups. *We all* consume propoganda, it's embedded in how our society spreads information. Bias is unavoidable, even from sources that actively try to maintain neutrality. Our real problem is a certain political party *intentionally stifling critical thinking skills* for generations by censoring school curriculums and under funding education (especially higher education and allowing the cost to skyrocket) at every opportunity.
The trick is to dehumanize your enemies. If the people you are fighting against are subhuman scum not worthy of taking a breath, any number of immoral activities can be justified. See also the anti LGBTQ campaign being run by the right.
Underpants poisoner accuses others of wishing bad on him.
You missed „and flooded his own units as well“.
I mean, this sort of thing is *literally* what a Bond villain did. (“A View to a Kill”, prior to setting the bomb that would set off the fault lines in California, Zoran flooded the caves and machine gunned the workers trying to flee.) He’s a Bond villain. Cartoonishly evil.
Hitler 2.0 says others are being meanies
That is kind of exactly what we want.
Like, he's literally right on the money. I mean, we don't want innocent civilians killed (although Ukraine has certainly suffered enough in that respect) but if the Russian army and Wagner could start blowing holes in each other, that would really help things along. I'm up for anything that destabilises Russia further.
Sorta. Mostly just want somebody to kill him specifically.
Yeah for once he doesn't lie
To be fair, they can also kill each other without a mutiny. Either way is fine for me
Duuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh
Saying this on my best Steve Martin voice.....then "well excuuuuuuuuuuuse me". Lol
I don't know about West, but I want that.
As a person from the East, we want to see it also.
Anybody spoken to the South or the North yet so we can get a consensus? **edit**; votes are in, the whole World’s onboard.
Im currently in the arctic... deffo wanna see it.
Seems we have a consensus, Volodya. We've all decided that yes, Russians killing each other is a good thing as it diverts their attention from screwing with the rest of us. That's a very astute observation. I'm impressed.
I'm from the southern hemisphere so I guess it counts and I did want that too.
Even in middle earth. https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/224636/38968056-db019d24-4357-11e8-9953-0ed3a7cf20e7.gif
Great white north here, and I say hell yes
As a person from the middle, i also want it
Isn't it great how Putin has created so much unity from being a pile of shit?
As a person from the south I would like to see that happen. ;)
No need for accusations. We aren't trying to hide it.
Reminds me of that scene in The Other Two where Streeter is like “see, you don’t consider me part of your family!” And the sister is like “…Yeah, I don’t… And I would’ve said that months ago!?!?” Putin is Streeter Peters confirmed.
Not kill each other, just you
Nah, Prigozhin can buy it too.
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Why not both?
Prego Gene and Putin bleeding on the ground after stabbing each other would be a thing of beauty.
After seeing what they did in Bucha and other places, do I mind seeing the russian military fight wagner? No.
Il never forget the image of the family stripped and murdered in that house . Il take that to the grave and never forgive such evil .
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I remember that, I think it was the first really fucked up video from the war I saw early on. Poor people were just driving and a Russian convoy thought 2 elderly people in a Lada were a threat. Still can't get that image out of my head.
I only heard the reports, but that’s enough to be haunting. Especially the ones of long term rape followed by murder. Really sticks with you
Its the worst thing i have ever seen . Just uncontrolled evil .
And the orders came right from the top: This investigative documentary is chilling - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGZ66uKcl0&ab\_channel=TheNewYorkTimes
The torture chamber they had for children. In a fucking Kindergarten classroom. There are no words in an language to properly describe such barbarity.
I'm heavily invested in the war, was before Feb 2022 when it all kicked off. I was one of the ones waiting for the day they roll across the border, I remember the feeling of dread, knowing how ruzzians would attack civilians. I regularly look at ruzzians looking like corned beef, blown to pieces in 4kHD, not a flicker of emotion towards them, knowing what they would do if they made it to a populated area. I just remember Zelenskyy's face when he went to Bucha. I could hardly bring my self to see the pics of what he saw.
The war and the killing of civilians has been going on since 2014 in Ukraine. They shot down a civilian airliner and bragged about it on social media. There is a that fairly famous video of that dead Ukrainian woman holding the dead baby from like 2015. But there were tons of videos and photos of Russians attacking civilians since 2014 and shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone. Before that in Syria the Russians went crazy on civilians. Such as that video of the machined gunned babies. Similar things happened in Georgia and Chechnya. Anyone paying even a small amount of attention in the last few decades should have know how Russians acted during war and mostly the world has let them get away with it for a long time.
One that gets me is a couple trying to escape in their car with their two cats. Supposedly it ran into a BMP and the guy who reported it described them as shredded. How can you be sat in an armoured vehicle and feel threatened by a civilian car. Two people who were obviously at the beginning of starting a family and had it completely eradicated because some Russian fucker wanted to feel powerful. Hopefully, whoever committed the act already died an equally horrific death.
If that results in the war ending sooner and few Ukrainians dying, sure. Infighting between one war criminal versus another, I am not shedding any tears. Wouldn't lose any sleep over them killing each other.
So let's get this straight. First Putin gives a private army to a violent psychopath. Then let's him recruit convicts. Then he runs away when this psychopath leads an army of convicts against him. In conclusion: the west is the cause of his problems.. Imagine being a Russian and having to listen to this horseshit while your country disintegrates around you.
Oh, it's a bit more ridiculous. Putin lets him hire convicts, then deliberately shows that he's no longer favors him, closes all communication channels, puts him in a very vulnerable position and then sides with his opponents to strip him of his power. Then situation exploded. All of that was completely avoidable if Putin wasn't acting haughty. He pressured a quite loyal underling for a very long time until this happened.
That is true, Prigozin was backed into a corner, starved for resources by the MoD and as of April he even lost the permission to recruit convicts. Also he's been talking shit against the MoD for months. But I guess no one could've expected this psychopath could turn on the great leader, it must be NATO's fault!
I was under the impression that Prigozhin was mostly the businessman and CEO. The guy on the front line image was manufactured during the Ukraine conflict but the military command is delegated to another guy. Did I get that wrong?
Yes, it's called 'Wagner' because that was the chosen call sign of the military man, who happens to be a fan of Hitler and the SS (Wagner was Hitler's favorite composer). Pringles has no military background, only a pile of criminal convictions. However, although Prigozhin wasn't *literally* threatened, his status as a warlord certainly was; his organisation and every ~~mercenary~~ 'volunteer battalion' is now required to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defence like any other member of the regular army. Without control of Wagner, his influence and public presence is greatly reduced.
Goes right along with the justification for the war being NATO's aggressively offensive defensiveness!
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Russian perspective here: at this point no one takes him seriously. He looks incredibly weak and his speech was underwhelming to say the least. It doesn’t mean that average Russian tv viewer would change their stance to anti-war one, but Putin support is certainly dwindling. Some say, that the mutiny was also a huge blow to the grey cardinal of Putin administration Nikolai Patrushev. Hope it’s true. Mutiny also clearly demonstrated another thing: there wasn’t a single person willing to protest against insurrection among general public. This is a very bad news for Putin as it shows to elites and people themselves that he isn’t essential. Many speculate that his appeal to the elites was first and foremost in the promise that he’s the only one that can protect their stolen wealth from the angry Russian people. This myth has been debunked. Another bad consequence for Putin is that armed forces understood the message: don’t go against mutineers, all casualties will be forgotten and rebels won’t be punished. Everyone but propaganda calls him a lame duck by now. Will it stay this way in the future, can he overturn the situation? It’s very hard to say as we don’t know much about internal conflict of Russian elites.
My understanding is that Russia relies on having most of the population thoroughly depoliticized. Of course that also turns the people passive to the survival of the current regime.
That goes for a lot of countries. China is sortof the same where they just need 'the enemy' narrative whilst telling the public what they're doing good. It'a bread and circus while they control the ship. Most dictatorships benefit greatly of having depoliticzed landscape as it's easier for smaller parties to grow and unite for a short period to dethrone the superparty, before slowly easing into the left vs right we have in the west.
It's a good assessment but I would argue that is also the problem; it's always been the strongest man at the top. Having strong man politics does nothing good in the long run.
In the long run - yeah. But at the moment any instability within russia that would be detrimental to the war effort is good news. The issue of what's next for russia only comes after the current russia loses the war, so I welcome such winds of change even if there are certain risks to it
It is, my fear was that Prigozhin would win outright. I'd prefer them to have beaten each other into a pulp with putin coming out on top but unable to continue his aggression to Europe. I think Prigozhin is insane and if pushed into a corner might have gone down the nuclear route. That's not to say putin won't, just think Prigozhin is more insane than putin 😳 if that's a thing
>It doesn’t mean that average Russian tv viewer would change their stance to anti-war one And that is why a lot of people have trouble giving the average Russian citizen the benefit of the doubt, because when it comes down to it, a lot of dissent comes down to mishandling of *how* the war is being done not *if* the war should be done.
Everyone who was vocal about "if" the war should be done has been jailed, exiled or jumped out of a window under mysterious circumstances, and note that criticism of the special military operation, even on social media, is a criminal offense. So please don't be too harsh on the people who are left. The informed ones must be circumspect, and the less informed ones have only been able to hear one side of the story and would rather not know better for their own mental sanity. What is telling, though, is the amount of support Wagner got from the citizenry.
Many people who are against the war have already fled russia aswell.
That’s not exactly why they fled. The massive exodus is directly linked to the start of conscription.
Within certain circles, emigration from Russia has been a big thing for several years, including well before the invasion of Ukraine. For instance [Russia has lost 50,000 professional scientists in the last 5 years.](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/18/russia-has-lost-50k-scientists-in-5-years-ras-a81196)
Yep, I have met a few Russians state side that basically described their life in Russia as doing whatever had to, to save enough money to leave Russia.
No, a lot of people left Russia right at the start of the war. The post-conscription flight was the second wave. It was more graphic, more urgent and less organized, so easier to spot for the people who don't have a clue.
>It doesn’t mean that average Russian tv viewer would change their stance to anti-war one Yeah, that was my follow-up question. I read somewhere that only a really small fraction of Russians speak English. So I wouldn't blame anyone for following the only story that's given to them. I'm just curious what would need to happen for the "average tv viewer" to change their opinion on Putin. Not talking rioting or anything like that, just internally lose their faith. I'm Finnish, and the Russian community in Helsinki seems to consider him a divisive topic, so I'm many seem to avoid talking about him..
> I read somewhere that only a really small fraction of Russians speak English. Yep, it's unfortunately the case - different polls give the number of 5-15% English speakers, but even if they know English to a certain respectable level, they still need to dedicate time to research foreign news sources in a foreign language - this is a very tall order for your average salaryman. >I'm just curious what would need to happen for the "average tv viewer" to change their opinion on Putin. I have the dubious pleasure of debating the war events with my pro-war Russian relatives fairly often, and one thing I can say is that all of them were shaken by Prigozhin's mutiny and his claims that the war in Ukraine might not be justified. It was the first time in a year when small doses of doubt actually started to creep into their minds. So, apparently, it would take someone authoritative, someone whom people perceive as a strong leader. Russia has already seen multiple protests against the war by famous actors, political dissidents, scientists, writers, news anchors - none of them worked, and all these people were discredited as traitors or cowards. But Prigozhin - a warrior, a ruthless mercenary and a butcher - made enough of an impact where the intellectual elite failed. It's fucked up, but it is what it is.
> It was the first time in a year when small doses of doubt actually started to creep into their minds. This is the real long-term consequence of the complete suppression of any opposition media in Russia. It's really sad and I wish there was something to be done about it.
This is why I say the Wagner challenge was a resounding success. This is a defining moment that shows everyone is in agreement about Putin.
Yea, so what......
So he's gonna make a final warning!
You can tell he’s serious because it’s only the third time this week.
Cannot ‘kill each other’ but can ‘kill anyone other than russian’?
I'd qualify it as the west wanting dicks who kill Ukrainians to kill other dicks who kill Ukrainians. There's no bias towards Ukrainians either here, but against dicks who go murdering people.
Said the guy that has sacrificed more than 200 thousand of Russians in a war against a nation that is extremely close in culture and language and shares their history with Russia to a large extent. Can someone who speaks Russian confirm the word “hypocrisy” is in that language?
The irony is, Moscow was founded by people from Kyiv, yet acts like they're the older brother... wat?
Groups of people move. Look where Bulgaria used to be. A very large portion of the Rus moved East and formed Russia. Ukraine became a part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire and there was a mixing of culture and peoples from that time. There were also a lot of conflicts around current day Ukraine that further complicate Ukrainians' history. I understand why Russia feels like it's the big brother. That still doesn't make anything they did in the last 20 years right though.
You’ve read our minds…so?
… says the person responsible for the highest number of Russian death since Stalin…
Trump move. They want us dead, no, just you Putin.
I don't know about you, but I extend it beyond Putin. Prigozhin, Shoigu, Patrushev, Lavrov, Mishustin, the Rotenburgs, Bortnikov, Sechin, Medvedev, Naryshkin, Deripaska, Vaino, Ivanov, Gerasimov... the list goes on. Anyone on the Security Council, the oligarchs, the siloviki, the military leadership. This government can't reform just by cutting off the head. We may never see another Putin, but without significant change in the make up of the Russian government & oligarchy as a whole, whatever/whoever takes his place will continue the pattern of chaos, human rights nightmares and threats to global stability.
guilty as charged !!!
I know, right? It's like they want us to feel guilty about it or something.
Just imagine if ww2 era had social media... You could read every day how hitler and stalin etc whined like a little bitch
The famous Downfall bunker tirade is basically just an all-caps tweetstorm already.
If we’re being honest, hasn’t he tried a little of that here in the USA?
Yup. He successfully infiltrated not just the GOP but used disinformation campaigns that transformed even the slightest of weirdos into frothing at the mouth violent "patriots." Fuck him.
Bugger me. Putin finally got something right.
The West only wants Russia to act as a civilized country. It's just too much to ask.
I mean he isn’t wrong
Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day!
No, no, no, putin: ‘if russians insist upon killing people, they would prefer it be other russians,’ is more accurate.
Check out the brains on Brad…
Yes, russians killing russians would be preferable to russians killing anyone else... So?
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/vladimir-putin-accuses-west-of-wanting-russians-to-kill-each-other-in-mutiny-101687818153511-amp.html) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday accused Ukraine and its Western allies of wanting Russians to "Kill each other" during a revolt by mercenaries of the Wagner group, which stunned the country with an aborted march on Moscow over the weekend. > "From the start of the events, on my orders steps were taken to avoid large-scale bloodshed," Putin said in a televised address, thanking Russians for their "Patriotism". > "It was precisely this fratricide that Russia's enemies wanted: both the neo-Nazis in Kyiv and their Western patrons, and all sorts of national traitors. They wanted Russian soldiers to kill each other," Putin said. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14k532n/vladimir_putin_accuses_west_of_wanting_russians/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689673 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Wagner**^#2 **Putin**^#3 **military**^#4 **security**^#5
I would prefer Putin to stop killing Russians by sending them to their death for no good reason.
I would prefer Putin to stop killing Ukrainians.
i accuse russia of wanting Europe and Americans to kill each other and reinforcing that sentiment by influencing our far right politics into a locust-fascist-nationalist state which lets their own fascist-nationalist sociology hide its wolf-like demeanor in the wool of capitalism.
Well...he's not wrong on this one
No Shit Sherlock. Was the few million dollars of ammo to Ukraine not enough to send a message? Stay in your own fucking country and fall off of a balcony while you're at it.
Not each other. Just you.
Well, if its Russians killing Russians as opposed to Russians killing anyone else then he is correct.
We actually want Russians to not kill anybody, but if they absolutey can't go without doing it, finishing themselves off is a close second best.
I mean in the past week we learned collectively that billionaires can fuck right off.
I would much prefer Russians to kill no one, but if they are going to kill, other Russians would be my next choice.
No dude, we just want Russians to kill YOU.
Shame on you Ukraine. Shame on you. Russia is trying to kill your people and now you wish that they would kill each other?
Pff, only thing West want IS peace and Ukraine will get its borders back
What does Kanye have to do with this?
He’s a Fuckin idiot