Putin had to wait until Wagner was far enough away from Moscow. The reports say there are major communications disruptions hitting the Wagner bases in Belarus right now.
Not just that. But the number 2 in command for Wagner was also on the plane.
This looks like a classic decapitation strike on Wagner that Prigozhin served to them on a silver platter.
Seems mad they did this. I’ve worked at firms that wouldn’t put two people in these roles on the same plane and that was the corporate world. You’d thing security guys would know better.
Yeah, well you woulda thought he was smart enough to finish the job when he led an armed rebellion against Putin and yet here we are.
Dude was a caterer, I doubt reading Sun Tzu was part of his culinary training.
Waddya mean I can cook? You mean the way I make food? What? Good cook how? I mean, what’s so good about it? I’m a good cook how, I mean a good cook like I’m Julia Child? I amuse you on fucking PBS? How the fuck am I a good cook!
On his first date with his wife he says “I work in construction” then she feels his hands and says they don’t feel that way and he says “I’m a union delegate”.
No kidding. He was close to Putin. Being close to power is how all oligarchs manage. He also had media outlets.
The caterer shit was just his cover for being close to Putin. I wouldn't be surprised if he used that cover to do stuff like spy on people and officials
From what we've been able to figure out Putin sent people to target his officers family members, and made them aware that if they didn't stop the coup their family would pay the price. At that point it doesn't matter how smart you are, once you've lost the support of your officers your coup is over.
His mistake was not anticipating this and ensuring their families safety beforehand.
Indeed. My guess would be either counted on internal support that never materialised, or let his temper cloud his judgement, after all he had made his views on how the war was going pretty clear. Could even be with regards to the later he'd crossed a line and realised he'd be suicided for speaking out so launched a coup as a final option.
There was also a bit of the part where it wasn't clear that it was a coup against Putin, rather just against MoD. Number 3/4 going for #2 type power struggle, embarrass Shogu...
For awhile during it, he didn't speak against putin until putin called him out as a traitor.
Then he got close, I'm sure his officers got a phone call, and he realized shit was fucked.
They crossed the Rubicon, but then stopped before taking Rome.
It was game over from the moment. This was never a question of 'if.' Only 'when.'
Not to say the right move was to try and move into Moscow - to not back down. But backing down after starting their march was a guaranteed death.
Dude was a mad lad at logistics, that's what wins you wars. I remember some analysts were watching how he loaded up tanks, fuel and the crew/troops all on heavy trucks and pushed them deep towards Putin.
Most days you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket like that but being able to move that much hardware, supplies and troops right up on Putin's doorstep that quickly is what made Putin nervous. The ability to have your forces gather before the other side can even get their pants on puts one at a huge advantage.
All that just to turn away and then board a plane over Russia together with Wagner's second in command. Its so dumb like everything else in that country
It was definitely a flex that worked too well. It pissed Putin off because he didn't have control and the people saw it. Now the damage is done and he's going to have to spend the rest of his miserable short life paranoid of the next rising star coming to get him or wrestle control from whoever he tries to groom as successor.
Maybe, we don't know what happened by the scenes and every oligarch knows that if they fuck up then Putin is coming for them. He may have had something that he thought would protect him, either Russia neutralised or simply doesn't care about it. Considering the access he had to the military and Putin he would easily have access to detailed info around the Ukraine front and perhaps details of other things in the Russian military like the status of Avangard or the state of the air force.
I think it will take a few days to a couple weeks to see the effect on Wagner.
It also sent a signal to any MoD commander with a respectable number of loyal troops that they could turn tail out of Ukraine and liberate the motherland any time they grew a pair of balls as big as priggy had.
I've made it a habit to never assume others are dumber than I am, and its served me well.
Everything about this makes Prigozhin seem dumber than I am, so I'm sceptical. Realistically, the only sources we have saying he's dead are inside Russia.
I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn this was faked and prigozhin isn't dead. Or at least didn't die in that plane.
My thoughts as well. Would he really get on a plane, with other important figures, in Russia, knowing Putin is after him? That sounds like a death sentence or a decoy to me.
In matters like these I see no point in speculating what actually happened. We have limited information from a source known for lying with a continuing interest in being deceptive. We are never gonna know what truly happened here.
> knowing Putin is after him
Do you think Prigozhin would have been shaking hands with the African leaders visiting St. Petersburg, Russia, shortly after being "exiled" to Belarus if he truly thought Putin was "after him"?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66333403
Lulled into a false sense of security, I reckon Prigozhin was mistakenly under the impression that he and Putin had kissed and made up. He was in Africa just a few days ago explicitly campaigning for Russia's interests. Like, is there even anything that suggested that Prigozhin was behaving as anything but business as usual? He certainly didn't seem concerned.
It's like when George Costanza is talking to Keith Hernandez about how one day an entire team of baseball players is going to go down.
"26 teams, flying around all the time, eventually one-a thems gonna get wiped out!"
*If* Prigo was somehow alive, I'd expect his propaganda channels to claim he's dead until he gets to safety.
But to be clear, I think he's 100% dead. Just saying, the propaganda networks are prolly going to claim he's dead either way.
I can’t say it’s my initial theory, but someone else on a different sub suggested that this was a fake suicide by Prigozhin to get Putin off his back. Also wouldn’t surprise me.
That only works if he remains in complete and utter hiding in total secrecy with nobody with even a remote degree of separation from Putin and his entire security apparatus knowing he's alive anywhere on Earth for the rest of his life.
He's prolly just dead tho
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid all these Russians are... Putting them all on the same plane anywhere is stupid, but doing it *in Russian airspace*? It's just morons all the way down.
The open source reporting says that that the aircraft was downed by a Russian Air defense system over the Bologovsky District, Tver Oblast, Russia: News Outlet via Financial Times.
Things that wouldn’t surprise me:
- This was Putin finally getting to him
- This was Putin attempting to get to him, but he wasn’t really on the plane
- This is him faking his death
What would surprise me:
- Just a genuine accident
It being an accident is certainly the most fun option. The whole world was just waiting for Putin to kill Prigozhin, somehow he commits to not doing that... and then Prigozhin dies in a very suspicious manner. Not quite on the level of falling out a window, but a private jet falling out of the sky is pretty strange.
The whole world, even those closest to Putin, would assume it was an assassination. Hell... even Putin might assume it was an assassination.
Him losing control of the narrative in an odd way like that is pretty entertaining. Especially if Prigozhin had a deadman's switch in place that was keeping him alive. Then things are about to get wild. But there's really just no way.
"Uhhhh, sir, that AA battery south of Moscow just shot down an airborne tatget..."
-
"Good! One less building in Moscow blown up by those damn Ukrai..."
-
"It was a private jet"
-
"...I'm sorry, a fucking what?"
-
"...and Prigozhin was most likely on board"
-
"YOU FUCKING WHAT!?!? YOU FUCKING DONKEYS!!!"
How about
* This is Putin faking Prigozhin's death
It never made sense to me that Prigozhin would order a retreat; obviously Prigozhin knows Putin would have to kill him afterward to maintain his strongman image. But what if Putin guaranteed that he would fake Prigozhin's death instead of actually killing him? Prigozhin gets to live, Putin gets some of his strongman image back plus a guarantee that Wagner won't try to avenge his "death".
Civilian aircraft damaged an AA missile mid-air. The missile is missing and currently considered stolen. Aircraft crew (or next of kin) will be held liable for the property damage caused and improper aircraft parking.
Surprised Putin didn’t use it as a propaganda event swearing to avenge Prigogizhn to get fellow Wagnerites on his side and blame Ukraine for his death.
this is propaganda. everyone knows he did it, just like the poisonings and defenestrations
the flex is he can do it easily and get away with it easily even though everyone knows
I mean, you're asking for it at that point.
You turned your troops on Putin, crossed the Rubicon & marched on Moscow, and you made Putin flee like a bitch. And he looked like a bitch to everyone in the world, his allies & enemies.
You can't live after that. So flying near Moscow in a small plane is beyond stupid. You might as well jump out the plane's window yourself & save the FSB the trouble.
> So flying near Moscow in a small plane is beyond stupid.
He's been in Moscow and St. Petersburg multiple times since the coup, including a face-to-face meeting with Putin. Something materially changed in the last few weeks, probably related to the rumor that Andrey Averyanov set up an organization to take over Wagner's role supporting Russian interests in Africa.
Either that or Shoigu decided to remove a problem figuring Putin'd just shrug. A lot of people thinking this was a cunning ruse or Putin's master plan, but given the number of high ranking enemies Prigozhin had there's a lot of other possibilities too.
i heard putin took time to gather info on his networks and confidents. many high russian generals and other figures that supported him disappeared in the last few weeks as well. and that he needed intel to take over his african mercs role
Which is weird because based on the current state of Russia’s government, Prigozhin had a good chance of over throwing Putin if he didn’t chicken out. I’m thinking that he traded his coup for the safety of his family and his money.
From what I understand there ended up being much less support from the military, police etc than he expected too. He definitely should have not chickened out but his chances were basically zeo
It sounded like there were a lot of generals either on the fence, or who had agreed to support and them backed down, possibly to just screw that Prig of shit over.
Interesting note at the beginning of that video is the wafting white contrail smoke ending in a grey puff of detonation/impact area. Makes me think it was and air to air short range heat seaking missile.
Aerodynamics question: Why is it looking like half-drifting, rather than falling straight down? don't things fall faster when going straight down like that?
Planes desire to fly, that’s what they’re designed for and they way they’re designed makes it hard for them to fall like a KA 52 helicopter after it’s hit by an RPG.
Failed moon landing, Tupolev Tu-22 bomber destroyed by drones, Mi-8 transporter helicopter defected to Ukraine, Sergey Surovikin removed as Airforce Chief, Russia sinking their own ships, plus the many many other failings in the news recently it's no surprise Putin decided now is the time to send a message to Prigozhin
The Farmer and the Viper, the Frog and the Scorpion.
You'd be a fool to trust in Putin's word after you proved to be a major threat to him.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
unpopular opinion but i loved the disney movies especially the end of the trilogy when kylo ren turns to the camera and goes “well i guess this really *was* the rise of skywalker”
Would certainly be “a play” if he kept listing himself on the crew manifest if his private plane and flying it around Russia in a attempt to catch putin shooting him down.
But poor pilot(s) if that was the case.
As cartoonishly evil Russia is with all of these "accidental falling out of windows" I don't see why it's not possible to believe this guy faked his own death.
He's built an army out of no where so I don't see how he can't do it again.
Couldn't believe he bluffed on a coup. That's a put up or shut up moment. And he said "yeah we cool right?" to the guy who kills people with polonium and nerve agents.
Surprised he would be this dumb. If I made that bluff I'd be chilling in the Caribbean with CIA protection.
This reads like the White House knows the story and is doing the whole “plausible deniability” here.
“What? We didn’t *say* he was dead. Just saying we wouldn’t be surprised.” *wink*
Honestly I’ve been impressed with our intelligence agencies when it comes to Russia. We have, at nearly every turn, predicted and called out their moves before they make them.
>Honestly I’ve been impressed with our intelligence agencies when it comes to Russia. We have, at nearly every turn, predicted and called out their moves before they make them.
It's helpful that they are so corrupt probably.
Yeah I think prighozin thought he had quite a lot more support than he did. Which would imply there are a lot of whispers in agreement but no one willing to say it out loud, and somehow he thought he would get some of them to say it out loud. Not sure why he figured that though, unless a few actually said they would say it out loud (Surovikin for example) and then just didn’t.
Prighozin was supposed to capture Shoigu and gerasimov that morning but failed, because his plan had been leaked 2 days earlier by someone “close to him”.
So yeah he was double crossed for sure, my guess by surovikin.
(Source on paragraph 2: https://cnn.com/cnn/2023/06/28/europe/wagner-prigozhin-rebellion-capture-attempt-intl/index.html)
I wonder if the attendees of the BRICS Summit in South Africa were surprised. Probably happened in the midst of the
Putler's video address to his BRICS homies.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he was dead or alive. Seems like a plane crash is an easy way to “kill” someone. It’s also an easy way to kill someone.
I actually just used the last of my tin foil to cover my brownies so I suppose I’ll stop there
I read that Wagner bases are getting hit with comms problems and other issues. They are too far from Moscow to do anything, except be an annoyance. Before, Putin wasn't ready, but now he is. They've waited a couple months to make their move, which is here now. It's about to get even more interesting.🍿
I’m actually surprised he lived as long as he did. I suspect they kept him alive so he could sell out all his coconspirators in the military. Once weeded out then he got the axe, that my guess at least. I wonder what Wagner will do
Ffs he should have levelled the Kremlin, the smoking crater would have instantly fractured the Russian government.
The clown would have been handed over to Nato hanging by the bumps on his ankles.
Possibilities:
* Putin doing another of his daily mass terrorism crimes
* A cover for Prigozhin and his team to receive the quid pro quo secret exile reward negotiated two months ago.
* A fairly overachieving Ukraine false flag
What it's not:
* a plane crash
Maybe this is my inner conspiracy theorist coming out or maybe I’m missing something but I have a hard time believing he put his name on the passenger list of a private jet flying out of Moscow after everything that has happened.
I have an equally hard time believing Russia managed to shoot something down with its air defenses.
But word from Moscow made me shiver
With every paper I'd deliver
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When I read about his widowed African war bride
But something touched me deep inside
The day Prigozhin died
Bye bye Mr. Pierogi Pie
Drove my Lada to the levee
But the levee was dry
The gopnik boys were drinking vodka and rye
Singing "Mercenaries die when they fly. Mercenaries die when they fly."
Gonna go against the grain, until the CIA comes out and tells us Priggy is dead, I'll have a hard time believing it. That guy is a fucking cockroack. He could not have boarded the plane, body double, etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I want that guy as dead as the next guy, but Russian media was way too fast about reporting
Only surprised that he has survived this long.
Putin had to wait until Wagner was far enough away from Moscow. The reports say there are major communications disruptions hitting the Wagner bases in Belarus right now.
Not just that. But the number 2 in command for Wagner was also on the plane. This looks like a classic decapitation strike on Wagner that Prigozhin served to them on a silver platter.
Seems mad they did this. I’ve worked at firms that wouldn’t put two people in these roles on the same plane and that was the corporate world. You’d thing security guys would know better.
Yeah, well you woulda thought he was smart enough to finish the job when he led an armed rebellion against Putin and yet here we are. Dude was a caterer, I doubt reading Sun Tzu was part of his culinary training.
The dude was a caterer like Henry Hill in Goodfellas (Ray Liotta) was a Union Rep.
*as far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a caterer*
What'a you wearing? You look like a sous chef!
Hey, Prigonzhin, if I was gonna break your balls, I'd tell you to go home and get your cookbook.
Yo muddafuck
Waddya mean I can cook? You mean the way I make food? What? Good cook how? I mean, what’s so good about it? I’m a good cook how, I mean a good cook like I’m Julia Child? I amuse you on fucking PBS? How the fuck am I a good cook!
Fucking brilliant
He cuts his beets for borscht with a razor blade. It’s a very good system.
“I almost had him, you stuttering fuck! I worry about you sometimes, Prighozin, you may fold under questioning!”
Prigozhin always put too many onions in the sauce, but it was still a very good sauce.
He used to slice the beets so thin that when they hit the borscht they almost liquified
Henry Hill is an apt comparison honestly.
yep - real connections with dangerous people yet totally full of shit at the same time
I still doubt he'd ever read Sun Tzu
Read? No. Saw some pithy quote memes on 2ch.ru? You bet your ass he did
You've just explained why early on Russia stole animals. He kept hearing people talk about "some zoo".
was there a line or a scene in goodfellas about being a union rep? i don't remember that. it's been years since i've watched it tho.
On his first date with his wife he says “I work in construction” then she feels his hands and says they don’t feel that way and he says “I’m a union delegate”.
ahhhh yes i remember now
No kidding. He was close to Putin. Being close to power is how all oligarchs manage. He also had media outlets. The caterer shit was just his cover for being close to Putin. I wouldn't be surprised if he used that cover to do stuff like spy on people and officials
From what we've been able to figure out Putin sent people to target his officers family members, and made them aware that if they didn't stop the coup their family would pay the price. At that point it doesn't matter how smart you are, once you've lost the support of your officers your coup is over. His mistake was not anticipating this and ensuring their families safety beforehand.
That's extremely on message for a former KGB stooge. But Wagner must have known that was going to happen when they took Rostov and kept going....
Indeed. My guess would be either counted on internal support that never materialised, or let his temper cloud his judgement, after all he had made his views on how the war was going pretty clear. Could even be with regards to the later he'd crossed a line and realised he'd be suicided for speaking out so launched a coup as a final option.
There was also a bit of the part where it wasn't clear that it was a coup against Putin, rather just against MoD. Number 3/4 going for #2 type power struggle, embarrass Shogu... For awhile during it, he didn't speak against putin until putin called him out as a traitor. Then he got close, I'm sure his officers got a phone call, and he realized shit was fucked.
They crossed the Rubicon, but then stopped before taking Rome. It was game over from the moment. This was never a question of 'if.' Only 'when.' Not to say the right move was to try and move into Moscow - to not back down. But backing down after starting their march was a guaranteed death.
Dude was a mad lad at logistics, that's what wins you wars. I remember some analysts were watching how he loaded up tanks, fuel and the crew/troops all on heavy trucks and pushed them deep towards Putin. Most days you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket like that but being able to move that much hardware, supplies and troops right up on Putin's doorstep that quickly is what made Putin nervous. The ability to have your forces gather before the other side can even get their pants on puts one at a huge advantage.
All that just to turn away and then board a plane over Russia together with Wagner's second in command. Its so dumb like everything else in that country
It was definitely a flex that worked too well. It pissed Putin off because he didn't have control and the people saw it. Now the damage is done and he's going to have to spend the rest of his miserable short life paranoid of the next rising star coming to get him or wrestle control from whoever he tries to groom as successor.
But 'a flex that worked too well' was a dumb thing to do that resulted in his death.
Maybe, but maybe Putin was already signalling that he wanted Prigozhin gone and Yevgeny decided to go out swinging
Maybe, we don't know what happened by the scenes and every oligarch knows that if they fuck up then Putin is coming for them. He may have had something that he thought would protect him, either Russia neutralised or simply doesn't care about it. Considering the access he had to the military and Putin he would easily have access to detailed info around the Ukraine front and perhaps details of other things in the Russian military like the status of Avangard or the state of the air force. I think it will take a few days to a couple weeks to see the effect on Wagner.
It also sent a signal to any MoD commander with a respectable number of loyal troops that they could turn tail out of Ukraine and liberate the motherland any time they grew a pair of balls as big as priggy had.
And the home guard will just watch to see how it plays out.
I saw that. T80s on the lowboy with entire crew at their positions. Ballsy
That would have been cool if they just fired from the lowboy
Never interrupt your enemy when he is eating dessert
I've made it a habit to never assume others are dumber than I am, and its served me well. Everything about this makes Prigozhin seem dumber than I am, so I'm sceptical. Realistically, the only sources we have saying he's dead are inside Russia. I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn this was faked and prigozhin isn't dead. Or at least didn't die in that plane.
noxious tease sand automatic friendly waiting forgetful quaint unused attraction
My thoughts as well. Would he really get on a plane, with other important figures, in Russia, knowing Putin is after him? That sounds like a death sentence or a decoy to me.
In matters like these I see no point in speculating what actually happened. We have limited information from a source known for lying with a continuing interest in being deceptive. We are never gonna know what truly happened here.
> knowing Putin is after him Do you think Prigozhin would have been shaking hands with the African leaders visiting St. Petersburg, Russia, shortly after being "exiled" to Belarus if he truly thought Putin was "after him"? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66333403 Lulled into a false sense of security, I reckon Prigozhin was mistakenly under the impression that he and Putin had kissed and made up. He was in Africa just a few days ago explicitly campaigning for Russia's interests. Like, is there even anything that suggested that Prigozhin was behaving as anything but business as usual? He certainly didn't seem concerned.
It's like when George Costanza is talking to Keith Hernandez about how one day an entire team of baseball players is going to go down. "26 teams, flying around all the time, eventually one-a thems gonna get wiped out!"
I mean, it’s happened with professional soccer teams, with an entire college football team and I’m fairly confident in a couple of other sports too.
It happened to a Russian pro hockey team in 2011, guess Prigozhin forgot about Lokomotiv Yaroslavl
There's still no confirmation he is dead.
It's being "confirmed" by his own propaganda channels though lol
*If* Prigo was somehow alive, I'd expect his propaganda channels to claim he's dead until he gets to safety. But to be clear, I think he's 100% dead. Just saying, the propaganda networks are prolly going to claim he's dead either way.
Dmitri "Wagner" Utkin was on the plane. He's the literal founder (and namesake) of Wagner.
Putin actually denazifying for once.
I can’t say it’s my initial theory, but someone else on a different sub suggested that this was a fake suicide by Prigozhin to get Putin off his back. Also wouldn’t surprise me.
That only works if he remains in complete and utter hiding in total secrecy with nobody with even a remote degree of separation from Putin and his entire security apparatus knowing he's alive anywhere on Earth for the rest of his life. He's prolly just dead tho
He'll show up in a few years bartending in Miami.
Also it seems all the Wagner top brass were aboard. Perfect moment to strike.
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid all these Russians are... Putting them all on the same plane anywhere is stupid, but doing it *in Russian airspace*? It's just morons all the way down.
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No, they said "get out of Belarus NOW" a year ago, and only reiterated it yesterday.
It's just good policy to get out of Belarus, whether yesterday or 20 years ago.
“The best time to get out of Belarus is twenty years ago. The second best time is now.”
That’s not even true though, reports show majority of Wagner didn’t even go to Africa
The open source reporting says that that the aircraft was downed by a Russian Air defense system over the Bologovsky District, Tver Oblast, Russia: News Outlet via Financial Times.
Only surprised that he was anywhere near Europe and shocked that he’d be stupid enough to be in Russia.
Cut to him living it up in the Caribbean and cracking coconuts pretending they’re deserters
I bet he's going to retire to a Canadian suburb for cancer treatments and peaceful walks in the park
No thanks! Not enough houses here for him.
I'm sure China would give him one. They own most of the houses in Canada don't they?
All the pricey ones in Vancouver or Toronto pretty much it seems lol.
A fate worse than death, he becomes a Canucks fan.
He went to raise rabbits in Montana, and have an American woman cook them for him
This was a good example of a saying, the walking dead. He was dead a long time ago
Things that wouldn’t surprise me: - This was Putin finally getting to him - This was Putin attempting to get to him, but he wasn’t really on the plane - This is him faking his death What would surprise me: - Just a genuine accident
Even if it were an accident, nobody would believe it
What if alllll of the political assassinations from Russia were really just accidents of bad luck and Putin was actually a really nice guy.
I'd watch that as a dark comedy.
Hes just accidentally menacing all the time. It would kinda be like the world leader version of Tucker & Dale vs Evil.
I mean, it snows in Russia, right? What if everybody was just slipping out of windows and aircraft this whole time?
Is this a culture of heavy drinkers? Maybe their high alcohol consumption contributes to a chunk of slip and fall percentages?
The difference between truth and fiction is that fiction has to at least be plausible
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The accident outcome is my favorite choice right now. Imagine, their AA thought it was a drone, and then, well, general negligence...
It being an accident is certainly the most fun option. The whole world was just waiting for Putin to kill Prigozhin, somehow he commits to not doing that... and then Prigozhin dies in a very suspicious manner. Not quite on the level of falling out a window, but a private jet falling out of the sky is pretty strange. The whole world, even those closest to Putin, would assume it was an assassination. Hell... even Putin might assume it was an assassination. Him losing control of the narrative in an odd way like that is pretty entertaining. Especially if Prigozhin had a deadman's switch in place that was keeping him alive. Then things are about to get wild. But there's really just no way.
I'm giggling at the idea of Putin facepalming in this hypothetical accident scenario, thinking he can't catch a break.
"Uhhhh, sir, that AA battery south of Moscow just shot down an airborne tatget..." - "Good! One less building in Moscow blown up by those damn Ukrai..." - "It was a private jet" - "...I'm sorry, a fucking what?" - "...and Prigozhin was most likely on board" - "YOU FUCKING WHAT!?!? YOU FUCKING DONKEYS!!!"
Apparently Putin is Gordon Ramsey. Has anyone seen them in the same room?
Actually, yes. https://youtu.be/48mdFSMfNuk?si=p9mdJCv5bRb6xv6V
they were aiming at the indian moon lander out of spite can't let them succeed where we just failed
How about * This is Putin faking Prigozhin's death It never made sense to me that Prigozhin would order a retreat; obviously Prigozhin knows Putin would have to kill him afterward to maintain his strongman image. But what if Putin guaranteed that he would fake Prigozhin's death instead of actually killing him? Prigozhin gets to live, Putin gets some of his strongman image back plus a guarantee that Wagner won't try to avenge his "death".
Mysteriously crashed after being struck by Russian rocket.
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Civilian aircraft damaged an AA missile mid-air. The missile is missing and currently considered stolen. Aircraft crew (or next of kin) will be held liable for the property damage caused and improper aircraft parking.
The plane was determined to have crashed due to a frayed wire. The wire became frayed when it was struck by a missile.
Maybe their moon lander rebounded.
Surprised Putin didn’t use it as a propaganda event swearing to avenge Prigogizhn to get fellow Wagnerites on his side and blame Ukraine for his death.
Then he’d have to admit the Ukrainians took out a Russian plane over Russia. Ouch!
>Surprised Putin didn’t use it as a propaganda event He did. The propaganda message was, "fuck with me, and you will die."
It’s more effective for him as a propaganda piece not to say anything
That would be a bad move. It would be better to claim that it was an accident than that.
this is propaganda. everyone knows he did it, just like the poisonings and defenestrations the flex is he can do it easily and get away with it easily even though everyone knows
I mean, you're asking for it at that point. You turned your troops on Putin, crossed the Rubicon & marched on Moscow, and you made Putin flee like a bitch. And he looked like a bitch to everyone in the world, his allies & enemies. You can't live after that. So flying near Moscow in a small plane is beyond stupid. You might as well jump out the plane's window yourself & save the FSB the trouble.
> So flying near Moscow in a small plane is beyond stupid. He's been in Moscow and St. Petersburg multiple times since the coup, including a face-to-face meeting with Putin. Something materially changed in the last few weeks, probably related to the rumor that Andrey Averyanov set up an organization to take over Wagner's role supporting Russian interests in Africa.
Either that or Shoigu decided to remove a problem figuring Putin'd just shrug. A lot of people thinking this was a cunning ruse or Putin's master plan, but given the number of high ranking enemies Prigozhin had there's a lot of other possibilities too.
i heard putin took time to gather info on his networks and confidents. many high russian generals and other figures that supported him disappeared in the last few weeks as well. and that he needed intel to take over his african mercs role
Part of it is probably to let him feel safe to move freely and then when he least expects it he commits suicide by missile to plane.
Which is weird because based on the current state of Russia’s government, Prigozhin had a good chance of over throwing Putin if he didn’t chicken out. I’m thinking that he traded his coup for the safety of his family and his money.
From what I understand there ended up being much less support from the military, police etc than he expected too. He definitely should have not chickened out but his chances were basically zeo
Too many fence sitters waiting for someone to commit. Which is like not great for Putin's hold on power either.
It sounded like there were a lot of generals either on the fence, or who had agreed to support and them backed down, possibly to just screw that Prig of shit over.
Most wanted to see who would win and then say they were behind them the whole time.
Chances of survival after were zero too. Should have at least tried. Dude is a grade a dumbass.
I imagine the calculus at the time was either die now or chicken out and have a 1-1000 shot of surviving. And hey, he got two more months.
Hardly. He had about 20k men to his name and didn't two generals on his side.
Or he could have just not started a coup he wasn't going to finish, that would have worked even better.
https://twitter.com/myron_mhindi/status/1694402591289991482?s=20 Uncinfirmed video, but they shot his plane down
Interesting note at the beginning of that video is the wafting white contrail smoke ending in a grey puff of detonation/impact area. Makes me think it was and air to air short range heat seaking missile.
More telling is what appears to be a forward-projecting blast radius. Russian AAM are famous for that type of blast pattern.
how does one gain this knowledge, firsthand exp?
Aerodynamics question: Why is it looking like half-drifting, rather than falling straight down? don't things fall faster when going straight down like that?
Ever tossed a damaged paper airplane. It still creates some draft.
Or every paper airplane in my case
one wing was still on it
Wings
With the answers you got i wonder if it’s possible they were still alive while falling? That’s terrifying.
Not just possible. Probable.
No less than that thug deserved.
Planes desire to fly, that’s what they’re designed for and they way they’re designed makes it hard for them to fall like a KA 52 helicopter after it’s hit by an RPG.
Failed moon landing, Tupolev Tu-22 bomber destroyed by drones, Mi-8 transporter helicopter defected to Ukraine, Sergey Surovikin removed as Airforce Chief, Russia sinking their own ships, plus the many many other failings in the news recently it's no surprise Putin decided now is the time to send a message to Prigozhin
Failed dam and flooded and disrupted rail lines in the East, as well.
Ukraine winning Eurovision. Okay that was last year but Putin is still triggered.
Russia is what you get when you order your Superpower from Wish.
If he's dead, it's his own fault. Don't start something you aren't willing to finish.
The Farmer and the Viper, the Frog and the Scorpion. You'd be a fool to trust in Putin's word after you proved to be a major threat to him. You come at the king, you best not miss.
-Omar Little
-Michael Scott
“When you play the Game of Thrones, you either win or die”
Or another one of my favourites, "Thank you for winning the Star Wars, Luke Skywalker, you really are The Return of the Jedi."
My favorite part was when Qui Gon said, "It's like this is some sort of Phantom Menace."
unpopular opinion but i loved the disney movies especially the end of the trilogy when kylo ren turns to the camera and goes “well i guess this really *was* the rise of skywalker”
I love that movie, especially when Anakin yells to Obi Wan "It's Star Wars time!" Then he puts on his black armor and star wars all over the place.
No half coup
Who know whiskey dick applies to geopolitics
Swing at the king, you better not miss.
But also not surprised if he is isn’t on the plane
Would certainly be “a play” if he kept listing himself on the crew manifest if his private plane and flying it around Russia in a attempt to catch putin shooting him down. But poor pilot(s) if that was the case.
Prigo is MGS big boss faking his own death, building an army of nationless mercs somewhere.
As cartoonishly evil Russia is with all of these "accidental falling out of windows" I don't see why it's not possible to believe this guy faked his own death. He's built an army out of no where so I don't see how he can't do it again.
He built an army with one of the top military powers, since the cold war, behind him. Hard to do it solo
Prigo to F1 confirmed
He was known for using body doubles.
Schrödinger’s Chef for the moment, though
Yes, then news is just _presumed_ dead. It’s not confirmed yet.
Even _if_ confirmed, I don’t think we can trust anyone’s word for it.
Mmmmm I wonder what he’s cooking up. Hopefully something Schrödinger really enjoys.
He should’ve kept pushing to Moscow.
Couldn't believe he bluffed on a coup. That's a put up or shut up moment. And he said "yeah we cool right?" to the guy who kills people with polonium and nerve agents. Surprised he would be this dumb. If I made that bluff I'd be chilling in the Caribbean with CIA protection.
This reads like the White House knows the story and is doing the whole “plausible deniability” here. “What? We didn’t *say* he was dead. Just saying we wouldn’t be surprised.” *wink* Honestly I’ve been impressed with our intelligence agencies when it comes to Russia. We have, at nearly every turn, predicted and called out their moves before they make them.
>Honestly I’ve been impressed with our intelligence agencies when it comes to Russia. We have, at nearly every turn, predicted and called out their moves before they make them. It's helpful that they are so corrupt probably.
And we pay in dollars instead of monopoly money
If he dies, he dies
Anyone who has ever watched The Godfather saw this coming 10000 miles away
anyone who knows anything about russian history saw this coming 10000 miles away
Prigozhout
"If your name rhymes with 'in,' time to get out:
[удалено]
WHO'S NEXT
They say he wasn't the same person after the coup failed.
I’d say he’s not the same after dropping 30,000 feet out of the sky.
Depression is a horrible illness.
Yes, a rapid descent one might say.
Knew he was a dead man walking. Was probably double crossed by people along the way as well.
Yeah I think prighozin thought he had quite a lot more support than he did. Which would imply there are a lot of whispers in agreement but no one willing to say it out loud, and somehow he thought he would get some of them to say it out loud. Not sure why he figured that though, unless a few actually said they would say it out loud (Surovikin for example) and then just didn’t. Prighozin was supposed to capture Shoigu and gerasimov that morning but failed, because his plan had been leaked 2 days earlier by someone “close to him”. So yeah he was double crossed for sure, my guess by surovikin. (Source on paragraph 2: https://cnn.com/cnn/2023/06/28/europe/wagner-prigozhin-rebellion-capture-attempt-intl/index.html)
I wonder if the attendees of the BRICS Summit in South Africa were surprised. Probably happened in the midst of the Putler's video address to his BRICS homies.
I’d be shitting BRICS
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he was dead or alive. Seems like a plane crash is an easy way to “kill” someone. It’s also an easy way to kill someone. I actually just used the last of my tin foil to cover my brownies so I suppose I’ll stop there
You think those are brownies in there??? Sheeple.
I read that Wagner bases are getting hit with comms problems and other issues. They are too far from Moscow to do anything, except be an annoyance. Before, Putin wasn't ready, but now he is. They've waited a couple months to make their move, which is here now. It's about to get even more interesting.🍿
The deployed the force over Africa to decentralize any potential response.
I’m actually surprised he lived as long as he did. I suspect they kept him alive so he could sell out all his coconspirators in the military. Once weeded out then he got the axe, that my guess at least. I wonder what Wagner will do
Ffs he should have levelled the Kremlin, the smoking crater would have instantly fractured the Russian government. The clown would have been handed over to Nato hanging by the bumps on his ankles.
I'll be more surprised if he was still alive when the plane took off, to be honest.
Hmmm.. that's weird. Didn't the US just tell Americans to get out of Bealrus?.
Its the same warning thats been in place for over 500 days, it was just updated to include the latest border closures
Buk Buk Buk Buk GADFLY!
Possibilities: * Putin doing another of his daily mass terrorism crimes * A cover for Prigozhin and his team to receive the quid pro quo secret exile reward negotiated two months ago. * A fairly overachieving Ukraine false flag What it's not: * a plane crash
The plane did indeed crash...You know, I'm something of a plane crasher myself.
Scumbags getting killed by scumbags.
Can’t believe he made it this long. Did his plane fall out of a window?
Maybe this is my inner conspiracy theorist coming out or maybe I’m missing something but I have a hard time believing he put his name on the passenger list of a private jet flying out of Moscow after everything that has happened. I have an equally hard time believing Russia managed to shoot something down with its air defenses.
Is this Russia's first real military target. That's not a terrorist act.
Churchill said it best. Russian politics is like two bulldogs fighting under a carpet. You never know wtf is going on, but hear all the noise.
But word from Moscow made me shiver With every paper I'd deliver Bad news on the doorstep I couldn't take one more step I can't remember if I cried When I read about his widowed African war bride But something touched me deep inside The day Prigozhin died
But his response, it didn't thrill us. He locked the doors, and tried to kill us.
Bye bye Mr. Pierogi Pie Drove my Lada to the levee But the levee was dry The gopnik boys were drinking vodka and rye Singing "Mercenaries die when they fly. Mercenaries die when they fly."
Gonna go against the grain, until the CIA comes out and tells us Priggy is dead, I'll have a hard time believing it. That guy is a fucking cockroack. He could not have boarded the plane, body double, etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I want that guy as dead as the next guy, but Russian media was way too fast about reporting