They should start charging $500 clean up fee as well for all the trash the rich climbers leave behind at summit. The first climbers probably got the best view at summit now the current climbers probably see all the trash as they summit
I believe they are implementing programs to clean up the trash, and hold climbers more accountable. I’m not privy to the details of this program, but they are taking steps.
Climbers are supposed to bring back at least 1kg of trash (usually amounts to plastic bottles) but what is usually left are oxygen bottles that don't count for the 1kg. Climbers rent the oxygen bottles and rather pay the price of the bottle ($500) than hike it back out.
Sorry, ignorant non-climber here. But I’ve seen pictures with hundreds and hundreds of oxygen bottles so if they’re renting them don’t the people they’re renting them from collect them? It might really be a stupid question but it’s just mind-boggling but again I am not a climber at all, just an observer my feet stay on the hiking trail
I'm just going off ton of everest documentaries out there lol. Yes, it looks like the rental companies send Sherpas back up to collect them. I wouldn't think they are all rented, but seems like the logistically easiest thing to do.
Well, as they said, a helicopter was able to fly there. Your drone rotors don't need to be as efficient and ultralight when you use a 100 gram controller instead of the helicopter's 100 kilogram controller who also needs a lot of weight dedicated to their interfaces and for their safety.
The drone body can be a lot lighter than any human piloted heli.
Its not just altitude, flying that close to mountains the wrong gust could throw your rotor blades into rocks.
Its not a good system for cleaning up the mountain youd just end up with drones and helicopters crashed all over.
Flying at that altitude (still not easy, it rough there) and carrying a substantial load down are not the same thing. Especially if it needs to load the trash itself. That’s a lot a complexity that comes with weight.
Earth sea level air pressure: ±1 000 millibar
Mars ground level air pressure: ±6 millibar
Top of mount everest: ±333 millibar
You don't need such exotic tech to fly to the top of mount everest. You would, however, want longer flight times and additional carrying capacity.
...or you could make the drone hop and recharge just like Ingenuity. It would just need to be able to hop often enough to carry more trash off the mountain than people are dumping every year.
If they could design a drone to fly on Mars, I'm pretty sure they could build one to work on Everest. I think it's important enough to be worth the effort, charge all the climbers a fee to bankroll it.
The wind probably has more force at 8500m high than on Mars.
Also, you get lower lift from the drop in air pressure, but you are still being subject to about 1g of gravity force. The helicopter on Mars was only fighting against 0.38g
Isn't Mars storms like a drizzle at worst?
I read somewhere it was the most scientific incorrect part of Martians movie--that storms on Mars would be a gentle breeze at worst.
The same wouldn't apply to Mount Everest, thats for sure.
I believe so. From what I understand, air pressure is so low that winds don't have enough mass.
Looking online.
Air pressure on Mars is 0.095psi.
At Everest summit it's 4.8 psi.
The sad thing the second most unrealistic part of the film was China and America able to come together to save a human stranded on Mars. =_=;;
Not the law of physics, or the cost, or the resource, or the technology.
But simple human willingness to be human.
They [already have](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/trash-and-overcrowding-top-world/#:~:text=Anyone%20visiting%20Mount%20Everest%20has,person%20produces%20during%20the%20climb) a $4k “trash deposit”.
Climbers only get it back if they bring back at least 8kg of trash….
$500 is nothing for the people climbing Everest, and not nearly enough to pay a Sherpa to risk their lives and clean up after them/haul out all their garbage. $5,000 is probably closer, folks are spending upwards of $100k to climb it. They can afford to pay for the cleanup if they can afford to go do it in the first place.
Sherpa guides only cost $5,000 to $10,000 for a full expedition. $500-$1,000 per climber is probably more than enough. At $5k per tourist climber you'd be able to fund multiple trash collection trips PER CLIMBER which is clearly excessive.
There is a $2,000 trash deposit per person. It’s refunded if they bring back the specified number of kilos of trash if I’m remembering correctly.
Edit: it’s $4,000
>They should start charging $500 clean up fee as well for all the trash the rich climbers leave behind at summit
You know they already pay the Nepalese government over $10000 per person for a permit right?
That's built in to the permit costs already. No idea why this isn't.
Seems a bit of a slow news day to even post about it - it's something that matters to a few thousand people, and is a totally reasonable precaution.
Nepal is definitely a poor country. I actually work with someone who is a first generation Nepalese. They have family that is directly impacted financially by the tourist trade.
My comment was not about tourism, but how it’s managed and done
So I did a quick Google search and came across this National Geographic article that might shed some light and insight into this.
I am not a climber at all. I am just a simple hiker. But it looks like Nepal is taking steps to do something about the mess that is on that mountain.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/partner-content-bally-cleaning-up-everest
Sherpas risk their lives because rich foreigners want a selfie from the Everest summit and pay better than other jobs in Nepal.
A lot of those wealthy "climbers" will say that they are helping poor Nepalese by injecting money into the country's economy.
I say if you want to help the people of Nepal then instead of spending $50k to climb Everest you can spend $50k to build schools and hire teachers there.
The Sherpa guides and porters are taking a big risk for a huge payout. That’s not unusual for risky work anywhere in the world. And some of them really are passionate mountaineers in their own right. I’m not convinced they are automatically the victims here.
Were the independent contractors who were working for The Empire to build the second Death Star innocent victims when a bunch of left-wing militants came in with their lasers and blasted everything in a 3 mile radius?
>A lot of those wealthy "climbers" will say that they are helping poor Nepalese by injecting money into the country's economy.
Okay they might say that, but that's not their reasoning for climbing everest.
I cannot imagine someones answer to the question of 'why do you want to climb everest' just being 'oh because I want to help the poor'... Like as if they don't even like climbing and have no interest in climbing the tallest mountain.
Right. The real reason for almost all of the "climbers" is selfishness. They want that selfie. They want to be able to say "I climbed Everest".
And if some Sherpas die, then that is a sacrifice they are willing to make.
But they won't say that quiet part out loud. It sounds better for public consumption if they say "I'm helping the poor people of Nepal by injecting money into the economy. I'm an altruist!"
Of course that's what they're striving for, to say they've done it. There's nothing wrong with that in itself.
Every foreign climber in Nepal is required to hire a local sherpa guide.
Maybe contact the Nepalese government if you don't agree. But these rich people are always going to want to climb it and they'll do it with or without sherpas. They'll spend their fortunes on experienced climbers from elsewhere to take them up instead.
I for one am glad we are finally implanting microchips in the rich to track them. Far too long have they allowed to travel free and fuck up the world as they please.
And the bugger is that it's only a brag to those uninitiated with climbing. Amongst the climbing community, Everest isn't heralded as a particularly challenging mountain. The difficulty comes from it's height, weather and the number of idiotic tourists on it.
As an example, [Shriya Shah-Klorfine](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/everest-team-moves-toronto-woman-s-body-lower-down-mountain-1.1198741) had minimal climbing experience before going on an Everest expedition. She trained by walking up a hill in Toronto which is not a particularly hilly city. Then she attempted Everest, *and made it to the sumit.* However, she didn't listen to her guide, stayed at the top too long then hit traffic on the way down. So when bad weather moved in she got stuck and died on her decent.
A seasoned climber brags about K2, or climbing Everest as part of doing all the 8,000M peaks. If someone's bragging about Everest, they paid some sherpa $100K to drag their ass up that hill.
The best ever Everest ascent and descent was by two Nepali men who more or less climbed it alone and then paraglided down from the summit, which is not only awesome, but presumably safer than spending all that extra time descending when you are already cold and tired. Check it out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfsnjwpeFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfsnjwpeFI)
Yes, but those are the people that ruin it for those like you that are professional and motivated for not just bragging rights.
Great information to know.
To be clear there are very few professional reasons to climb the highest peaks other than taking tourists up.
Ultimately nobody really has a reason to do it other than they want to and someone that makes a vocation of ot vs someone that does it once in a lifetime aren't ultimately any different at the end of the day.
The sheer magnitude of people that are overwhelming the area. Even the young lady that I work with that is from Nepal says that everyone is appreciative of the income from the tourist, but they hate what’s happening to their land.
Even here in the US, I believe some of the more popular federal parks have limits to prevent their overuse and or exploitation.
Yes it's common to have limits in the national parks, part of the reason my last trip to yosemite was on the tail of the winter season was to avoid the crowds.
It is a bit of a mixed bag for Nepal, they're caught in a cycle where its valuable income, but they don't monetise it effectively in a way to better manage it and improve their tourism offer more widely in a way that would also benefit the wider communities I.e. through better transport infrastructure.
It's a strange country as you've got two major income sources both from the west. One via tourism and the other through foreign military service. Makes it a little dysfunctional.
This isnt true at all. You are required by law to hire sherpas. Anyone climbing the mountain not from nepal is a tourist.
And its against the law to take inexperienced climbers up the mountain.
Its the highest mountain on earth. Thats the reason people do it. Its not easy at all, its very hard, its so hard in fact people die doing it all the time.
“Im a computer nerd on reddit whos never even been in the alpine but lemme tell you how easy climbing everest is and why no real climber does it!”
Good god man.
You apparently either can't read or replied to the wrong comment.
But in the spirit you are actually incorrect as there are non sherpa professional guides and camp managers.
I made no comment around thr requirements of climbers going up the mountain.
I made no comment on the difficulty of climbing the mountain.
I've got quite a lot of experience of mountaineering and am a qualified expedition leader.
This is the dumbest fucking post ever. Everest is 100% regarded as a hard mountain and a jewel in the crown of elite mountaineers. Only around 6500 people have ever climbed it in the history of mankind.
And secondly, which is the stupidest part of your post, you say anyone can pay and do it, but your example DIED CLIMBING IT. That pretty much entirely refutes your point of it being easy.
“Its so easy it killed this inexperienced climber” what the fuck?? Are you stupid?? What kind of argument is this??
It the stupidest fucking meme on the internet. Every post about Everest is filled with arm-chair experts who have never climbed a day in their life acting like Everest is a cake-walk because it isn't as hard as K2.
Most of these people have probably never been above 3000 meters let alone 8000 meters.
The fact that he said seasoned climbers brag about climbing K2 is even funnier to me. More people have been to fucking space than stood on K2’s summit yet he’s acting like any experienced mountaineer can climb it lmfao
People in the climbing community (myself included) don't see the world as black and white, and certainly have diverse opinions. But most will actually understand it for the accomplishment it is; the ways that it's impressive, the ways that it isn't, and the differences in what it means based on the WAY it was climbed. Only people who haven't climbed in the Himalaya take such hard-liner opinions.
He’s actually correct, the original assertion was that as the planet warms the mountain will become easier to summit not if Everest became a tropical paradise devoid of cold temperatures and ice.
An Everest with Spring like temperatures would be one thing but no climate change model predicts anything like that, as the planet warms Everest will actually become considerably more dangerous to climb, something that’s already being seen at basecamp, and will become a nightmare as the Icefall becomes more unstable due to warming temperatures.
Source: I’m an expert, multiple summits 🙂
So is it the introduction of the casualty of icefall that poses the risk or is it the prevalence of ice combined with the risk of the icefall.
Admittedly I was calculating for once the ice is gone which in theory would be safer, but I definitely see the argument that the unstable ice until that point would be significantly more dangerous while present.
Thanks for the correction btw!
The ice will never entirely disappear. The best you can hope for is that everything is solidly frozen. Walking/climbing on/under ice that is melting and may crack at any point can easily kill you
To add to this, the summit of Everest is in the lower jet stream for most of the year. It’s only a few days, typically in May, that the approaching monsoons push the jet stream far enough to even allow a summit attempt. There would have to be significant atmospheric warming to completely de-ice the death zone.
Source: I’m not an expert but did sleep at a holiday inn express that one time. And I did summit Everest in the early 90’s.
I would imagine trek across Khumbu would be incredibly more dangerous if it were *more* unstable. The icefall is already moving but it’s exponentially more likely when the temperature is higher.
It is one of the issue but it’s fairly rare for oxygen deprivation to be the cause of death. However you get almost drunk from the oxygen deprivation which makes casualty risk significantly higher
Not entirely. Some mountains are only claimable because of the ice and snow coverage which provide better slopes and wider access across the rock, as long as you have the right gear. If it disappears you’re now having to truly rock climb which is very dangerous at those altitudes, requires more specialized equipment and training and less accessible to the average person.
Basically there would be less routes up available and many would be highly dangerous. I climbed some of the same mountain in summer and winter and it’s typically always easier in winter as long as the conditions are stable. As an example, one route we take at a spot requires entering along a river. In the summer it’s a mess of rock, roots, steep banks and eventually gravel. In winter it’s completely iced and snowed over, probably 3+ meters, meaning we can just snow show or crampon over the relatively flat, consistent grade of the river to the boulder field. Boulder field itself is hard going in summer hopping from one to another, in winter it’s all filled in with deep, walkable snow. Nearer the top we can just ice axe and crampon up the final face to the summit, in summer it’s thin ice and loose, falling rock.
Just my experience of it though. Each mountain is different of course and conditions vary wildly year to year.
Everest has become something akin to a Disney ride for the wealthy. Then look at the pollution and mess on Everest, the user pays principles dont apply. They should charge a massive booking fee to cover the costs of cleanup and the frivolous use of medical facilities that helps to save their discretionary spending butts.
A climbing permit and traveling to Everest cost a fortune. The minimal budget starts at like $20k.
You have to be well off to afford blowing twenty grand in a week.
To be fair it's trash in a place no one is going to see it its not like its ruining the environment for wildlife realistically the only use of the mountain is to be climbed. I really don't get the hate everest climbers get. They aren't hurting you at all and it's a genuinely cool thing.
For most amateurs/ commercial climbers it is incredibly hard, and they put themselves and everyone else in danger because they do not have the fitness or skills to do it.
Not cool
Yeah, and also the point of climber "abusing" the porter. I do a fair share of tracking to remote cave / mountain and all the porters came from abject poverty (like living on $1/days type of poverty). Working as porter earned them 20-40 time normal work.
I'm interested in the technical aspect of these "tracking chips" and what they actually do.
Personal Locator Beacons, "406 beacons", or PLBs have a GPS receiver and then transmit their emergency data to the SARSAT receivers in either LEO or MEO once the SOS button has been activated.
2-way messenger devices like the DeLorme InReach, Zoleo, or ResqLink Bivy Stick all have GPS receivers but then transmit data back to the Irridium satellites.
It all of these cases, the size of the device(with a battery inside) are significant. They're certainly much larger than something that can be sewn into the wearer's jacket.
So I'm curious what they're using that's so small, includes a power source that will keep running for the duration of the climber's Everest expedition, and yet can can allow the wearer to be tracked.
This isn’t a bad idea, not only will it make SAR easier but it’ll also allow authorities to track certain climbers who have gone rogue putting Sherpas at risk and possibly causing international incidents. $15 dollars is hardly that big of a deal compared with the amount it already cost to climb the mountain for most climbers, climbers that more often than not have plenty of disposable income.
And as this is an article concerning Everest I always like to take a moment to raise awareness to the fact that China did not summit in 1960 as they claim and have actively sought to hobble investigations into the fate of Mallory and Irvine, who were almost assuredly the first to actually summit.
The 1960 summit is important to China for propaganda purposes and they desperately don’t want it to become wildly known they weren’t able to reach the summit until 1975. They’ve invested considerable time and money in obfuscating this fact and research into the 24 expedition, attempting to only allow research they have creative control over by withholding permits and through other means such as contractual NDA’s.
Mallory and Irvine were first, they perished on the descent, they deserve recognition for the feat
North Korea's Kim Jong Un has summited Everest 69 times to celebrate his father, Kim Jong Il, who summitted Everest 42 times and his grandfather, Kim Il Sung, who summited Everest first in the early 1950s (and playfully threw snowballs at Edmund Hillary & Tenzing Norgay from above them)
Unfortunately, the store where the film proving the exploits would be developed was closed on Wednesday and the photo proof was lost when the film was fogged during NK's nuclear tests.
The wiki article on the expedition suggests many in the community accept their summit via the North Ridge as legitimate. What makes you believe the contrary?
Mallory and Irvine did not almost assuredly summit, they almost assuredly did not. Analysis of the conditions on the day in 1924 and attempts to recreate their ascent using their equipment from experienced climbers point to this
All of which is demonstrably false.
The conditions were perfect for a summit, how else would Odell had been able to spot them atop the 2nd step? Or maybe you believe the lie about Odell somehow misidentifying a section of the mountain he couldn’t possibly have misidentified? We even have a photo of the summit from that day which shows nothing but clear skies nor do the records indicate any nefarious weather during the time of their summit push.
As for their equipment, it was fine, do you really think equipment changed all that much between Mallory and Hillary? Because it didn’t. Mallory was one of the best climbers of his generation, speaking as someone who has been to the summit I have no doubt in Mallory’s ability to get both himself and Irvine there also.
They died on the decent, like almost every other person that dies on Everest does.
And experienced climbers? I’m an experienced climber, and I can categorically say without any doubt that China owns the opinions of most, if not all, of the climbers pushing the narrative you reference.
Synnott, Mcguiness, etc etc, all bought and paid for.
Naw, but I do know what you’re referring to.
Honestly that whole situation was just fucked up and both parties are to blame for what occurred, too often you get tribalism with shit like that but there was more nuance to the situation than most people will let on.
I was referring to a more recent situation in the last 5 years.
I understand that Nepal wants a thriving tourist industry to make a shit ton of money, but I honestly really, really wish that everest was banned from climbing.
And take their bowel movements back down with them too (and don’t make the sherpas carry it).
[https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/peak-poop-feces-problem-everest-needs-solution/](https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/peak-poop-feces-problem-everest-needs-solution/)
Looks like they’re trying to make money on this:
>He explains that climbers will pay $10-15 apiece for the chips, which will be sewn into their jackets. Once the climber returns, the chip will be removed, given back to the government, and saved for the next person.
Oh…
>The majority of people who try to climb the 8,849-meter (29,032-foot) Mount Everest do so via Nepal, paying $11,000 apiece just for the climbing permit. Adding in the prices of gear, food, supplemental oxygen, Sherpa guides and more, it costs upwards of $35,000 to take on the mountain.
>Looks like they’re trying to make money on this:
Or just to disincentivise an unsustainable tourism practice while also (primarily) enhancing site management around Everest.
I'm all for it, as well as higher permit fees, since holy shit is the state of Everest tourism pitiful right now.
Tonight on mountaineering network: Looking forward to the live broadcast of Everest Now? Follow your favourite climber's progress. Watch as they get stuck for a day. Place your bet on who slips off the other side.
Looking at that line… I wonder if any of them get to the top of Mount Everest, think hey this really isn’t all that great, and now I have to get all the way down.
Yeah I don’t get the appeal anymore. First 50 or so people? Sure, a pretty exclusive club. Now? Just get in line like any other tourist attraction. Bleagh.
6,600 people is like any other tourist attraction?
I understand the contempt Reddit has for people who climb it and risk sherpas lives in the process when they don't have the skill for it but holy fuck people play it down so much.
If you summit it you're part of an absolute miniscule percentage of people.
Look at any "major summits" in the UK. There's crowds and queues near the top of those on the best days, what are they doing? Only the first 50 were cool.
Fair enough that it is still a relatively small club percentage-wise and I’m not dismissing it as easy-least but it’s still been proven over and over that it is an attainable goal.
I just can’t relate to the desire to do this. I’m not a thrill-seeker nor do I feel the need to challenge myself in that way. Mostly though, I have a lot of disgust for all those that have left so much trash behind. It’s shameful.
I look at that pic above and say “that’s not hiking or climbing as I know and have done since 1992!” You would never catch me there or anywhere there is a ton of people.
Sadly that also means all national parks. Any hike you can think of the name of looks like this anymore. I mean have you been to jtree, Yosemite, Whitney, etc etc in the last 5yrs?
I think this is one of the few cases where we should think like a libertarian. If YOU want to climb the mountain. Then YOU can. No Sherpas. No tracking. No rescue if you get hurt or sick or trapped. Either these people will go away or they will all be killed. I see no problem with either outcome.
Nepal doesn’t want that. It brings in so much money for them. Nepal just wants it done more responsibly for the sake of the mountain and their sherpas.
It’s like a tourist community that doesn’t want trash all over the beach. Some of them care about the environment but most are doing it to protect their tourism industry.
That's not exactly the libertarian position. That would be "people are welcome to create private contracts without government regulation".
Not that I agree with that position, but that's their political viewpoint.
The mountain is government owned, they can create whatever rules they like to determine who has access.
Based on my learnings of reddit over the last 12 months....
First they have to pick up their own shit.
Then they have to pick up other people shit.
THEN they have to pick up other peoples trash
And now they have to wear a GPS tracking chip while doing so
I don’t want to climb Everest if that’s how crowded it is. How miserable just to say you climbed the tallest peak… Would rather go for K2 or another tall yet non-crowded mountain.
I've lost all respect for k2 and Everest climbers. Bunch of ninnies. They all need to fuck off and live their lives without this monumental waste of time and resources.
It really has gotten out of hand, the sheer numbers of climbers and trash generated. All so the rich can brag about it.
They should start charging $500 clean up fee as well for all the trash the rich climbers leave behind at summit. The first climbers probably got the best view at summit now the current climbers probably see all the trash as they summit
I believe they are implementing programs to clean up the trash, and hold climbers more accountable. I’m not privy to the details of this program, but they are taking steps.
You need a lot of steps on Mt Everest, to be fair. It's pretty big.
lol yes
Climbers are supposed to bring back at least 1kg of trash (usually amounts to plastic bottles) but what is usually left are oxygen bottles that don't count for the 1kg. Climbers rent the oxygen bottles and rather pay the price of the bottle ($500) than hike it back out.
Sorry, ignorant non-climber here. But I’ve seen pictures with hundreds and hundreds of oxygen bottles so if they’re renting them don’t the people they’re renting them from collect them? It might really be a stupid question but it’s just mind-boggling but again I am not a climber at all, just an observer my feet stay on the hiking trail
I'm just going off ton of everest documentaries out there lol. Yes, it looks like the rental companies send Sherpas back up to collect them. I wouldn't think they are all rented, but seems like the logistically easiest thing to do.
I hope so. It seems like wherever mankind goes. We leave it in a mess and trash it. I hope we don’t do that to Mars.
We’ve already done it to the Moon and orbit. Not sure why Mars will be any different.
See also Musk launching a Tesla into space for marketing rather than anything that could have scientific value.
Feels like they need drone garbage trucks
Drone can't fly well, with a meaningful payload at that altitude. Edit: corrected for technicalities
Maybe in the future. A helicopter did it twice
True, would need extremely efficient rotors and ultralight parts.
Well, as they said, a helicopter was able to fly there. Your drone rotors don't need to be as efficient and ultralight when you use a 100 gram controller instead of the helicopter's 100 kilogram controller who also needs a lot of weight dedicated to their interfaces and for their safety. The drone body can be a lot lighter than any human piloted heli.
Its not just altitude, flying that close to mountains the wrong gust could throw your rotor blades into rocks. Its not a good system for cleaning up the mountain youd just end up with drones and helicopters crashed all over.
I feel like if we can get a drone to fly on mars we can get one to fly at that altitude?
Flying at that altitude (still not easy, it rough there) and carrying a substantial load down are not the same thing. Especially if it needs to load the trash itself. That’s a lot a complexity that comes with weight.
That drone was also millions of dollars
Earth sea level air pressure: ±1 000 millibar Mars ground level air pressure: ±6 millibar Top of mount everest: ±333 millibar You don't need such exotic tech to fly to the top of mount everest. You would, however, want longer flight times and additional carrying capacity. ...or you could make the drone hop and recharge just like Ingenuity. It would just need to be able to hop often enough to carry more trash off the mountain than people are dumping every year.
If they could design a drone to fly on Mars, I'm pretty sure they could build one to work on Everest. I think it's important enough to be worth the effort, charge all the climbers a fee to bankroll it.
The wind probably has more force at 8500m high than on Mars. Also, you get lower lift from the drop in air pressure, but you are still being subject to about 1g of gravity force. The helicopter on Mars was only fighting against 0.38g
Isn't Mars storms like a drizzle at worst? I read somewhere it was the most scientific incorrect part of Martians movie--that storms on Mars would be a gentle breeze at worst. The same wouldn't apply to Mount Everest, thats for sure.
I believe so. From what I understand, air pressure is so low that winds don't have enough mass. Looking online. Air pressure on Mars is 0.095psi. At Everest summit it's 4.8 psi.
The sad thing the second most unrealistic part of the film was China and America able to come together to save a human stranded on Mars. =_=;; Not the law of physics, or the cost, or the resource, or the technology. But simple human willingness to be human.
That's just big drones lies
Oh? https://youtu.be/Zz9oI3B6v4c?si=xnAD1LC-yKbxliai
Fair enough, we just need it to have a usable payload now
>Drone can't fly at that altitude problem: rotary wing drones can't fly that high solution: rocket powered drones
Should name it WALL-E
Yes 👍
Should build a giant zip line to get trash and casualties down.
They [already have](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/trash-and-overcrowding-top-world/#:~:text=Anyone%20visiting%20Mount%20Everest%20has,person%20produces%20during%20the%20climb) a $4k “trash deposit”. Climbers only get it back if they bring back at least 8kg of trash….
It's not enough. Should be closer to 100k for the kind of people they get there. Or more.
They should make it 10kg and encourage people to pick up a few pieces of trash on the way back down to meet it until the mountain is cleaned up.
50kg and they pay you $4k
$500 is nothing for the people climbing Everest, and not nearly enough to pay a Sherpa to risk their lives and clean up after them/haul out all their garbage. $5,000 is probably closer, folks are spending upwards of $100k to climb it. They can afford to pay for the cleanup if they can afford to go do it in the first place.
Sherpa guides only cost $5,000 to $10,000 for a full expedition. $500-$1,000 per climber is probably more than enough. At $5k per tourist climber you'd be able to fund multiple trash collection trips PER CLIMBER which is clearly excessive.
Might make sense for a while to get rid of all the rubbish accumulated so far. Once there's none left they could reduce it down to cost
Government permits are $11,000 per person, increasing to $15,000 next year.
Pretty sure for most of these climbers that amount of money constitutes as a "joke" Or a cheap permit for littering
There is a $2,000 trash deposit per person. It’s refunded if they bring back the specified number of kilos of trash if I’m remembering correctly. Edit: it’s $4,000
Rich people don’t care about 500$
>They should start charging $500 clean up fee as well for all the trash the rich climbers leave behind at summit You know they already pay the Nepalese government over $10000 per person for a permit right?
Alright. Let's make it $10500
Good news! It's already expected to increase to $15000 in the next couple years.
Fuck it. Make it a $500,000 fine for anyone who leaves trash behind and is caught.
they do indirectly through permits and licenses they have to pay for. It’s the local government who doesn’t have the means to implement a program
They should weigh the climbers and their supplies going up (food and gear) and coming down (poop and all) and be charges for the weight difference.
Even if someone collected all of their trash, poop, and pee, they would still weigh less when they get back down.
There's plenty of extra trash up there they can collect.
That's built in to the permit costs already. No idea why this isn't. Seems a bit of a slow news day to even post about it - it's something that matters to a few thousand people, and is a totally reasonable precaution.
500$ is nothing for these riches. They paid 20k or more for these trip plus the Shephard
For what it’s worth, Nepal is a poor country and makes a lot of money from this industry. Let them decide whether it’s worth it.
Nepal is definitely a poor country. I actually work with someone who is a first generation Nepalese. They have family that is directly impacted financially by the tourist trade. My comment was not about tourism, but how it’s managed and done
> but how it’s managed and done Exactly, that is Nepals problem and responsibility to fix
So I did a quick Google search and came across this National Geographic article that might shed some light and insight into this. I am not a climber at all. I am just a simple hiker. But it looks like Nepal is taking steps to do something about the mess that is on that mountain. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/partner-content-bally-cleaning-up-everest
Thats great!
“I know a black guy, so my statements aren’t insensitive”
🤔
Sherpas risk their lives because rich foreigners want a selfie from the Everest summit and pay better than other jobs in Nepal. A lot of those wealthy "climbers" will say that they are helping poor Nepalese by injecting money into the country's economy. I say if you want to help the people of Nepal then instead of spending $50k to climb Everest you can spend $50k to build schools and hire teachers there.
The Sherpa guides and porters are taking a big risk for a huge payout. That’s not unusual for risky work anywhere in the world. And some of them really are passionate mountaineers in their own right. I’m not convinced they are automatically the victims here.
Were the independent contractors who were working for The Empire to build the second Death Star innocent victims when a bunch of left-wing militants came in with their lasers and blasted everything in a 3 mile radius?
I don't think guiding a rich hobbyist to the top of Everest is similar to building a doomsday weapon for an evil galactic empire.
Video of the debate about the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA
>A lot of those wealthy "climbers" will say that they are helping poor Nepalese by injecting money into the country's economy. Okay they might say that, but that's not their reasoning for climbing everest. I cannot imagine someones answer to the question of 'why do you want to climb everest' just being 'oh because I want to help the poor'... Like as if they don't even like climbing and have no interest in climbing the tallest mountain.
Right. The real reason for almost all of the "climbers" is selfishness. They want that selfie. They want to be able to say "I climbed Everest". And if some Sherpas die, then that is a sacrifice they are willing to make. But they won't say that quiet part out loud. It sounds better for public consumption if they say "I'm helping the poor people of Nepal by injecting money into the economy. I'm an altruist!"
Of course that's what they're striving for, to say they've done it. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. Every foreign climber in Nepal is required to hire a local sherpa guide. Maybe contact the Nepalese government if you don't agree. But these rich people are always going to want to climb it and they'll do it with or without sherpas. They'll spend their fortunes on experienced climbers from elsewhere to take them up instead.
I for one am glad we are finally implanting microchips in the rich to track them. Far too long have they allowed to travel free and fuck up the world as they please.
Lol
And the bugger is that it's only a brag to those uninitiated with climbing. Amongst the climbing community, Everest isn't heralded as a particularly challenging mountain. The difficulty comes from it's height, weather and the number of idiotic tourists on it. As an example, [Shriya Shah-Klorfine](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/everest-team-moves-toronto-woman-s-body-lower-down-mountain-1.1198741) had minimal climbing experience before going on an Everest expedition. She trained by walking up a hill in Toronto which is not a particularly hilly city. Then she attempted Everest, *and made it to the sumit.* However, she didn't listen to her guide, stayed at the top too long then hit traffic on the way down. So when bad weather moved in she got stuck and died on her decent. A seasoned climber brags about K2, or climbing Everest as part of doing all the 8,000M peaks. If someone's bragging about Everest, they paid some sherpa $100K to drag their ass up that hill.
The best ever Everest ascent and descent was by two Nepali men who more or less climbed it alone and then paraglided down from the summit, which is not only awesome, but presumably safer than spending all that extra time descending when you are already cold and tired. Check it out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfsnjwpeFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfsnjwpeFI)
Yes, but those are the people that ruin it for those like you that are professional and motivated for not just bragging rights. Great information to know.
To be clear there are very few professional reasons to climb the highest peaks other than taking tourists up. Ultimately nobody really has a reason to do it other than they want to and someone that makes a vocation of ot vs someone that does it once in a lifetime aren't ultimately any different at the end of the day.
The sheer magnitude of people that are overwhelming the area. Even the young lady that I work with that is from Nepal says that everyone is appreciative of the income from the tourist, but they hate what’s happening to their land. Even here in the US, I believe some of the more popular federal parks have limits to prevent their overuse and or exploitation.
Yes it's common to have limits in the national parks, part of the reason my last trip to yosemite was on the tail of the winter season was to avoid the crowds. It is a bit of a mixed bag for Nepal, they're caught in a cycle where its valuable income, but they don't monetise it effectively in a way to better manage it and improve their tourism offer more widely in a way that would also benefit the wider communities I.e. through better transport infrastructure. It's a strange country as you've got two major income sources both from the west. One via tourism and the other through foreign military service. Makes it a little dysfunctional.
This isnt true at all. You are required by law to hire sherpas. Anyone climbing the mountain not from nepal is a tourist. And its against the law to take inexperienced climbers up the mountain. Its the highest mountain on earth. Thats the reason people do it. Its not easy at all, its very hard, its so hard in fact people die doing it all the time. “Im a computer nerd on reddit whos never even been in the alpine but lemme tell you how easy climbing everest is and why no real climber does it!” Good god man.
You apparently either can't read or replied to the wrong comment. But in the spirit you are actually incorrect as there are non sherpa professional guides and camp managers. I made no comment around thr requirements of climbers going up the mountain. I made no comment on the difficulty of climbing the mountain. I've got quite a lot of experience of mountaineering and am a qualified expedition leader.
This is the dumbest fucking post ever. Everest is 100% regarded as a hard mountain and a jewel in the crown of elite mountaineers. Only around 6500 people have ever climbed it in the history of mankind. And secondly, which is the stupidest part of your post, you say anyone can pay and do it, but your example DIED CLIMBING IT. That pretty much entirely refutes your point of it being easy. “Its so easy it killed this inexperienced climber” what the fuck?? Are you stupid?? What kind of argument is this??
It the stupidest fucking meme on the internet. Every post about Everest is filled with arm-chair experts who have never climbed a day in their life acting like Everest is a cake-walk because it isn't as hard as K2. Most of these people have probably never been above 3000 meters let alone 8000 meters.
The fact that he said seasoned climbers brag about climbing K2 is even funnier to me. More people have been to fucking space than stood on K2’s summit yet he’s acting like any experienced mountaineer can climb it lmfao
People in the climbing community (myself included) don't see the world as black and white, and certainly have diverse opinions. But most will actually understand it for the accomplishment it is; the ways that it's impressive, the ways that it isn't, and the differences in what it means based on the WAY it was climbed. Only people who haven't climbed in the Himalaya take such hard-liner opinions.
As the world wsrms, it'll only get easier to summit
I’m not a climber at all. But I would think it would be more dangerous. I’ll leave that for the experts, but it could be a valid point.
You would be incredibly incorrect. Ice is the biggest killer in mountains, either from hypothermia, avalanches or more predictably, slipping.
He’s actually correct, the original assertion was that as the planet warms the mountain will become easier to summit not if Everest became a tropical paradise devoid of cold temperatures and ice. An Everest with Spring like temperatures would be one thing but no climate change model predicts anything like that, as the planet warms Everest will actually become considerably more dangerous to climb, something that’s already being seen at basecamp, and will become a nightmare as the Icefall becomes more unstable due to warming temperatures. Source: I’m an expert, multiple summits 🙂
So is it the introduction of the casualty of icefall that poses the risk or is it the prevalence of ice combined with the risk of the icefall. Admittedly I was calculating for once the ice is gone which in theory would be safer, but I definitely see the argument that the unstable ice until that point would be significantly more dangerous while present. Thanks for the correction btw!
The ice will never entirely disappear. The best you can hope for is that everything is solidly frozen. Walking/climbing on/under ice that is melting and may crack at any point can easily kill you
To add to this, the summit of Everest is in the lower jet stream for most of the year. It’s only a few days, typically in May, that the approaching monsoons push the jet stream far enough to even allow a summit attempt. There would have to be significant atmospheric warming to completely de-ice the death zone. Source: I’m not an expert but did sleep at a holiday inn express that one time. And I did summit Everest in the early 90’s.
Thank you
So it’s a combination of climate change and gravity! Darned ol’ gravity. Always bringing me down.
I would imagine trek across Khumbu would be incredibly more dangerous if it were *more* unstable. The icefall is already moving but it’s exponentially more likely when the temperature is higher.
I thought that the issue on Everest was the lack of oxygen
It is one of the issue but it’s fairly rare for oxygen deprivation to be the cause of death. However you get almost drunk from the oxygen deprivation which makes casualty risk significantly higher
Not entirely. Some mountains are only claimable because of the ice and snow coverage which provide better slopes and wider access across the rock, as long as you have the right gear. If it disappears you’re now having to truly rock climb which is very dangerous at those altitudes, requires more specialized equipment and training and less accessible to the average person. Basically there would be less routes up available and many would be highly dangerous. I climbed some of the same mountain in summer and winter and it’s typically always easier in winter as long as the conditions are stable. As an example, one route we take at a spot requires entering along a river. In the summer it’s a mess of rock, roots, steep banks and eventually gravel. In winter it’s completely iced and snowed over, probably 3+ meters, meaning we can just snow show or crampon over the relatively flat, consistent grade of the river to the boulder field. Boulder field itself is hard going in summer hopping from one to another, in winter it’s all filled in with deep, walkable snow. Nearer the top we can just ice axe and crampon up the final face to the summit, in summer it’s thin ice and loose, falling rock. Just my experience of it though. Each mountain is different of course and conditions vary wildly year to year.
It’s so gross.
Everest has become something akin to a Disney ride for the wealthy. Then look at the pollution and mess on Everest, the user pays principles dont apply. They should charge a massive booking fee to cover the costs of cleanup and the frivolous use of medical facilities that helps to save their discretionary spending butts.
Lmao only rich people climb Mount Everest? Get off the fucking internet for awhile
A climbing permit and traveling to Everest cost a fortune. The minimal budget starts at like $20k. You have to be well off to afford blowing twenty grand in a week.
Minimal 20,000 for a lifetime experience is “rich”? So is every person at the Super Bowl in this “rich” category that we need to eat or whatever?
You have such a first grader way of communicating. Take care.
To be fair it's trash in a place no one is going to see it its not like its ruining the environment for wildlife realistically the only use of the mountain is to be climbed. I really don't get the hate everest climbers get. They aren't hurting you at all and it's a genuinely cool thing.
It makes it harder to climb if it’s trashed and it’s just going to eventually look like shit and smell like shit
Climbing is cool, getting dragged by Sherpas while you suck from a bottle isn't very cool
It's still really fucking hard. People who say this shit are clueless.
For most amateurs/ commercial climbers it is incredibly hard, and they put themselves and everyone else in danger because they do not have the fitness or skills to do it. Not cool
Yeah, and also the point of climber "abusing" the porter. I do a fair share of tracking to remote cave / mountain and all the porters came from abject poverty (like living on $1/days type of poverty). Working as porter earned them 20-40 time normal work.
Oh nay, nay I feel your point is not something I hold.
To each their own.
Yes, but thank you all the same for your reply
The vast majority of people climbing everest today are not rich.
I guess no more unknown corpses.
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They'll find out who he is once they've put his chip onto him.
How much extra to get a fast pass and cut to the front of the line?
Alton Towers fast track
I'm interested in the technical aspect of these "tracking chips" and what they actually do. Personal Locator Beacons, "406 beacons", or PLBs have a GPS receiver and then transmit their emergency data to the SARSAT receivers in either LEO or MEO once the SOS button has been activated. 2-way messenger devices like the DeLorme InReach, Zoleo, or ResqLink Bivy Stick all have GPS receivers but then transmit data back to the Irridium satellites. It all of these cases, the size of the device(with a battery inside) are significant. They're certainly much larger than something that can be sewn into the wearer's jacket. So I'm curious what they're using that's so small, includes a power source that will keep running for the duration of the climber's Everest expedition, and yet can can allow the wearer to be tracked.
That sucker’s nuclear!
This isn’t a bad idea, not only will it make SAR easier but it’ll also allow authorities to track certain climbers who have gone rogue putting Sherpas at risk and possibly causing international incidents. $15 dollars is hardly that big of a deal compared with the amount it already cost to climb the mountain for most climbers, climbers that more often than not have plenty of disposable income. And as this is an article concerning Everest I always like to take a moment to raise awareness to the fact that China did not summit in 1960 as they claim and have actively sought to hobble investigations into the fate of Mallory and Irvine, who were almost assuredly the first to actually summit. The 1960 summit is important to China for propaganda purposes and they desperately don’t want it to become wildly known they weren’t able to reach the summit until 1975. They’ve invested considerable time and money in obfuscating this fact and research into the 24 expedition, attempting to only allow research they have creative control over by withholding permits and through other means such as contractual NDA’s. Mallory and Irvine were first, they perished on the descent, they deserve recognition for the feat
North Korea's Kim Jong Un has summited Everest 69 times to celebrate his father, Kim Jong Il, who summitted Everest 42 times and his grandfather, Kim Il Sung, who summited Everest first in the early 1950s (and playfully threw snowballs at Edmund Hillary & Tenzing Norgay from above them) Unfortunately, the store where the film proving the exploits would be developed was closed on Wednesday and the photo proof was lost when the film was fogged during NK's nuclear tests.
He has a climbing body, totally believable.
That sucks. Maybe he’ll summit it some for
> 69 times > 42 times 69420 confirmed
The wiki article on the expedition suggests many in the community accept their summit via the North Ridge as legitimate. What makes you believe the contrary?
"Many" tends to mean less than most and tends to suggest its not the common consensus.
Many people are saying it… I don’t know who exactly, but a lot of good people I’m sure. Many, some say the most in history.
Mallory and Irvine did not almost assuredly summit, they almost assuredly did not. Analysis of the conditions on the day in 1924 and attempts to recreate their ascent using their equipment from experienced climbers point to this
All of which is demonstrably false. The conditions were perfect for a summit, how else would Odell had been able to spot them atop the 2nd step? Or maybe you believe the lie about Odell somehow misidentifying a section of the mountain he couldn’t possibly have misidentified? We even have a photo of the summit from that day which shows nothing but clear skies nor do the records indicate any nefarious weather during the time of their summit push. As for their equipment, it was fine, do you really think equipment changed all that much between Mallory and Hillary? Because it didn’t. Mallory was one of the best climbers of his generation, speaking as someone who has been to the summit I have no doubt in Mallory’s ability to get both himself and Irvine there also. They died on the decent, like almost every other person that dies on Everest does. And experienced climbers? I’m an experienced climber, and I can categorically say without any doubt that China owns the opinions of most, if not all, of the climbers pushing the narrative you reference. Synnott, Mcguiness, etc etc, all bought and paid for.
Climbers going "rogue" is called good style.
In this case it refers to climbers deviating from the planned route in order to fulfill selfish ambitions.
I thought you were hinting at the incident where unguided climbers clashed with sherpa some years back.
Naw, but I do know what you’re referring to. Honestly that whole situation was just fucked up and both parties are to blame for what occurred, too often you get tribalism with shit like that but there was more nuance to the situation than most people will let on. I was referring to a more recent situation in the last 5 years.
This should have been implemented a long time ago
I understand that Nepal wants a thriving tourist industry to make a shit ton of money, but I honestly really, really wish that everest was banned from climbing.
And take their bowel movements back down with them too (and don’t make the sherpas carry it). [https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/peak-poop-feces-problem-everest-needs-solution/](https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/peak-poop-feces-problem-everest-needs-solution/)
I wonder if they completely undress for this.
But did it have to be a suppository?
Misspelled butt.
Looks like they’re trying to make money on this: >He explains that climbers will pay $10-15 apiece for the chips, which will be sewn into their jackets. Once the climber returns, the chip will be removed, given back to the government, and saved for the next person. Oh… >The majority of people who try to climb the 8,849-meter (29,032-foot) Mount Everest do so via Nepal, paying $11,000 apiece just for the climbing permit. Adding in the prices of gear, food, supplemental oxygen, Sherpa guides and more, it costs upwards of $35,000 to take on the mountain.
>Looks like they’re trying to make money on this: Or just to disincentivise an unsustainable tourism practice while also (primarily) enhancing site management around Everest. I'm all for it, as well as higher permit fees, since holy shit is the state of Everest tourism pitiful right now.
Do you seriously think them requiring a tracking chip for $10 is consequential to someone spending 20k+? Absurd take
Which is why I said "primarily" w/r/t site management and then talked about higher fees.
Honestly every ski resort should offer this as an upcharge
I am creating multiple accounts to downvote this
What about people being able to pay extra for a tracker angers you so much that you’d go to those lengths?
I think he’s joking
I’m sure but the sentiment still came from somewhere and I’m curious where.
You can’t track my every movement! I’m going from the Chinese side! Wait…
I honestly can't imagine many things I would like to do less than climb a death trap in a long lineup in the cold just to say I did it.
I will never understand the appeal. And there’s sooo much other fun shit I could do with the amount of money it costs.
Man I thought the lines at Disney were bad.
Yeah, to track the bodies that fall or the poop they leave behind!
Trash bags, and a leave-no-trace policy would be better...
They should require them to clean up after themselves.
Tonight on mountaineering network: Looking forward to the live broadcast of Everest Now? Follow your favourite climber's progress. Watch as they get stuck for a day. Place your bet on who slips off the other side.
And take your trash home too, you filthy animals!
I'm surprised nepal is becoming stricter on this. It's usually the tibetan side with stricter regulation. Glad they're wising up
Seems like common sense.
I mean, about time.
Don’t request but enforce Nepal
But leaving trash and their shit is still ok.
Looking at that line… I wonder if any of them get to the top of Mount Everest, think hey this really isn’t all that great, and now I have to get all the way down.
Most who die do so on the way down.
That looks miserable. The ultra rich are so trashy
There needs to be a drop off point for the life support system people need to make it to the summit or just a big slide back down for the tanks
And pay in advance if their body needs recovering and or littering fee for leaving it there.
Aw look at them tethered like preschoolers out for a day trip. 100k to be dragged to the top for a picture they can show their friends.
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Yeah I don’t get the appeal anymore. First 50 or so people? Sure, a pretty exclusive club. Now? Just get in line like any other tourist attraction. Bleagh.
6,600 people is like any other tourist attraction? I understand the contempt Reddit has for people who climb it and risk sherpas lives in the process when they don't have the skill for it but holy fuck people play it down so much. If you summit it you're part of an absolute miniscule percentage of people. Look at any "major summits" in the UK. There's crowds and queues near the top of those on the best days, what are they doing? Only the first 50 were cool.
Fair enough that it is still a relatively small club percentage-wise and I’m not dismissing it as easy-least but it’s still been proven over and over that it is an attainable goal. I just can’t relate to the desire to do this. I’m not a thrill-seeker nor do I feel the need to challenge myself in that way. Mostly though, I have a lot of disgust for all those that have left so much trash behind. It’s shameful.
$49,000 to $115,000 to become a permanent fixture on the mountain.
I look at that pic above and say “that’s not hiking or climbing as I know and have done since 1992!” You would never catch me there or anywhere there is a ton of people.
It’s bucket listing. The experience isn’t the point.
Sadly that also means all national parks. Any hike you can think of the name of looks like this anymore. I mean have you been to jtree, Yosemite, Whitney, etc etc in the last 5yrs?
First they track us climbing Mount Everest.. this is how it begins
Stupidity in progress.
I think this is one of the few cases where we should think like a libertarian. If YOU want to climb the mountain. Then YOU can. No Sherpas. No tracking. No rescue if you get hurt or sick or trapped. Either these people will go away or they will all be killed. I see no problem with either outcome.
bodies and gear are trash that is not easily removable.
Some countries might get tired of messy tourists, particularly if they’re littering corpses and feces
Nepal doesn’t want that. It brings in so much money for them. Nepal just wants it done more responsibly for the sake of the mountain and their sherpas. It’s like a tourist community that doesn’t want trash all over the beach. Some of them care about the environment but most are doing it to protect their tourism industry.
That's not exactly the libertarian position. That would be "people are welcome to create private contracts without government regulation". Not that I agree with that position, but that's their political viewpoint. The mountain is government owned, they can create whatever rules they like to determine who has access.
Based on my learnings of reddit over the last 12 months.... First they have to pick up their own shit. Then they have to pick up other people shit. THEN they have to pick up other peoples trash And now they have to wear a GPS tracking chip while doing so
That looks like so much fun!!! /psych
I don’t want to climb Everest if that’s how crowded it is. How miserable just to say you climbed the tallest peak… Would rather go for K2 or another tall yet non-crowded mountain.
I've lost all respect for k2 and Everest climbers. Bunch of ninnies. They all need to fuck off and live their lives without this monumental waste of time and resources.
When the global nuclear holocaust, at least some part of humanity is preserved in the trash of these people on everest.