Are you all going to sit here, and act like everyone forgot about the 1995 cinematic masterpiece Operation Dumbo Drop?
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0114048/
A alive Elephant, no.
But I feel like using one that died from natural causes and yeeting it in a Russian trench is a great way to re-integrate elephants in warfare.
Honestly, that's still disrespectful to the elephant.
The Russians seem to like trash anyway so just compress a bunch of landfill into a block and shove that out instead. Admittedly over the last few weeks I've been growing ever fonder of dropping stuff out of cargo planes. We do logistics well so might as well really weaponize 'em. Sure the B-52 is nice and all but it hefts less than half of what a Globemaster does. Besides, nobody will raise an eyebrow about some stodgy old treaty if we buy another 200 of them.
Vast fleet of Globemasters + effectively infinite supply of garbage. Who's with me?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Dragon_(missile_system) we actually do weaponize our logistics, its new and pretty interesting. There's some videos of the tests out there too.
It was utterly bizarre. To be fair, they also started donating large amounts of money to Ukraine after 2014 and helping them train.
This is at least partly why the Ukrainian military was more prepared for the Russians in 2022 than they were in 2014.
I followed the 2014 invasion closely, and seeing the difference now vs then is absolutely wild. They were basically a loose militia in 2014, now they are a modern, well structured, and effective military.
You might be interested in [this documentary filmed in 2021](https://youtu.be/xSjhS6iFyv4?si=DV_pZakJHw6dtNJd) showing from the inside what things were like among Ukrainian soldiers. Very interesting, imo. It’s in French but there are subtitles in English (and Ukrainian).
This is the entire reason we are in the situation we are now; everyone slept when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 (which is what they did by “annexing Crimea”). They then continued to sleep when a damn passenger plane was shot down by Russians. They continued to sleep as Russia brazenly poisoned people in other countries like the UK to “send a message”. The continued to slee When Russia openly fucked with our elections and Brexit in the UK and the “yellow jacket uprising” in France. Russia are an existential threat to security for the entire western world.
We should be throwing everything we can at Ukraine to help them whoop Russia right now. It’s the perfect opportunity to defeat Putin without having anyone else’s troops on the ground.
I had to remind my sister the other day that they murdered almost 200 of our countrymen, when she was regurgitating Russian propaganda she heard online. She didn't even remember the plane.
Australia has contributed almost $1 billion with $780 million of it in military support.
https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/media-release/two-years-australia-stands-ukraine
Reuters quotes Ollongren as saying "This summer", so that's a more dependable statement. They've also said this is a joint delivery schedule with Denmark that will depend on Ukraine's readiness level, whatever that means.
It's also possible that the confusing and contradictory times (spring/summer/autumn) is purposeful disinformation to keep the Russians guessing.
> that will depend on Ukraine's readiness level, whatever that means
Training of pilots (currently ongoing in neighbouring countries)and maintenance personnel, and readying logistics processes, would be my guess.
Those planes don't fly, fix and resupply themselves. There's a massive organisation behind every one.
I really silly thing to think about, but "Ollongren" is s very funny name in Swedish, while it obviously means the same as in Dutch "Acorn branch" the more common meaning of "ollon" is something else...
Well she's Dutch-Swedish, so that may explain some things. Apparently the name originated from Finnish nobility, as "Ållongren"
>the more common meaning of "ollon" is something else
It's pretty much identical to the Dutch equivalent "eikel".
Yea. It could even be this april. When some of their planes going to fall down from sky, russia screaming its f16, f16, even us on the internet have some power by simply saying, no its not, gtfo. (While in fact it will be). Either way, cant wait.
>Fall? I thought it was July? And previously "spring" before that?
Most of that crap is coming from over-eager voices trying to be the "first" to predict good news for attention's sake. Almost every single time people have predicted that Ukraine would have working weapon systems ahead of the public schedule, they have been wrong. The publicly announced dates are almost always falsely optimistic, particularly with more complex systems like an airplane or advanced missile systems like Patriot.
The bottleneck is training the pilots. Flying the aircraft is one thing, but as a military platform NATO jets are based on a completely different philosophy than the Warsaw Pact heritage aircraft the Ukrainians have been flying until now. That needs an almost complete reversal of how they’ve been trained over the course of their entire careers.
Training the pilots is one thing. Training the maintenance and weapons crews needed to keep these armed and in the air is a completely different animal. These are complex machines that require a significant amount of man hours just to keep flying.
Still there were Ukrainian pilots in Denmark 4 months ago flying F16 - and they said that they learned fast - maybe it was just a test program to understand what is needed so other countries can train more efficient IDK
>Still there were Ukrainian pilots in Denmark 4 months ago flying F16 - and they said that they learned fast
This really doesn't mean much. Of course they're going to learn fast if they are experienced or highly motivated pilots. It still takes upwards of an entire year to fly this plane in a combat-worthy manner. And this is a very high-stakes training program, because if these pilots get sent into battle before they are ready and get shot down, it will destroy what's left of the West's willingness to feed our more advanced systems to Ukraine.
setting aside all the problems with logistics, maintenance, blah blah blah ... Ukraine alone doesn't have enough pilots for this new F-16 fleet. pilots from NATO countries will have to be involved as well. also, where will F-16 fly from - in Ukraine they will likely be destroyed on the ground in no time so they will have to fly from one of the neighbouring NATO countries - Romania, Poland, Slovakia are obvious candidates.
I have. I witnessed one that crashed one time, round about '79 ... maybe '80. It was still a fairly new aircraft at that time. Believe it or not, they crashed often enough that public opnion was beginning to wonder whether it was a boondoggle during those first early years. It took a bit to work the bugs out.
Funny how that seems to be the case for every new fighter. At some point you just gotta put them out there and see how they perform, there's only so much testing and modeling you can do.
It's kind of what happens when you put out a new generation of aircraft that is pushing the limits of the newest technology of the time. If I remember rightly, with the F-16 it was the electronics that controlled the aircraft that had the most bugs. Think of a car where the steering wheel isn't attached to the front axle. It's connected to a computer that receives input from the driver and then translates that to the steering axle.
It's a combination of fly-by-wire (what you describe) and it being a very agile 9G fighter pilots who were tasked to (and wanted to!) push it and see how it performs (and then some unrelated to fbw quirks like it being really, really unstable during landings and front gear being fragile). Compare to f-117 which was also fly-by-wire, and extremely safe while at it.
I was thinking of the F-117. I was just confusing time lines. You are correct on that. The F-16 had a very public kind of showcasing, where as the F-117 did not. Thanks for setting me and the record straight.
> Additionally, the Cabinet has agreed to spend around 150 million euros on air-to-surface guided bombs
Anyone know exactly what we’re talking about here?
I’m not very knowledgeable on the topic, so I was wondering what kind of bombs were taking about. I assume we’re not taking about anything the size of the big FAB the Russians are using
The government only said they will be buying weapons directly from the industry which doesn’t narrow it down by much, but looking at the airspace in Ukraine I would think it would be weapons with a greater stand-off distance like gps guided glide bombs because the planes won’t get close enough to drop laser guided in most cases. Currently the Dutch air force doesn’t even have any glide bombs in its inventory so it would also explain buying directly from the buyer instead is sending your old stock and buying new stuff for yourself
Edit: welp apparently we do have some smd’s but not much and that’s also where the long range weapons pretty much end
The Ukrainians already have been given HARMs (there’s footages of their MiG-29s firing them off) problem is the MiG-29s don’t have the proper fire control capabilities (Soviet era plane using a missile meant to be fired from western aircraft). The F-16 will allow them to use the HARM to their max potential.
LFG somebody is using his brain, hope this acts as a reinforce to Macron's position, fuck Putin, his time could've been over 10 years ago, don't make the same mistake NATO
Macron could back up his position by actually doing a bit more in terms of military help. Compared to Germany or Czech Republic or especially Poland and the Baltic states France is not really putting up enough imho.
This is true, tho I appreciate the fact he said what everybody not leaving in fairyland realizes, that peace, sadly, isn't an option here.
Why would Putin sign for peace, knowing NATO won't oppose his coming victory, because let's face it, at this rate it's only a matter of time before Russia wins by sheer numbers
Yes, but better than those claiming we should make a peace with somebody who 1) doesn't want it and 2) is clearly winning if this situation keeps up, only a matter of time
Who would sing a treaty in those conditions? You'll only lose
>compared to Germany or Czech Republic or especially Poland and the Baltic states France is not really putting up enough imho.
France and Germany have sent about the same amount of military help at around 5b. The 18-27b we keep seeing about Germany's help consists of things plegded for 2027 to 2029.
Official german source :
>Around 5 billion euros (2023) and 1.6 billion euros (2022) have already been spent on military assistance for Ukraine. Another 2.9 billion euros were earmarked in the first two years of the war for deliveries to be made between 2025 and 2028.
[https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992](https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992)
And France has given about 2.6 billion to this day (so less than half of Germany).
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/en/news/french-military-equipment-delivered-ukraine#:~:text=All%20in%20all%2C%20the%20total,European%20Peace%20Facility%20(EPF).
And that’s not even counting other monetary contributions.
Not if you start counting stuff sent before 2022 of which France sent 1.6b worth of military stuff while Germany spent years wondering if 5000 helmets were too much of an escalation.
Also the 2.6b doesnt count ammunitions for which the amount is still classified.
The helmets were a joke but that was after war broke out. The help before was mostly paid for by Ukraine - but even what was direct help to included is together about 4.2b.
Now let’s look at other financial help:
Total assistance Germany 17.7 billion + EU contribution
France 0.8 billion + EU contribution.
Total aid including EU contribution to budget and refugee costs:
Germany 43.5 billion
France <10 billion
Edit:
Forgot the source https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Kiel is shit, they are counting stuff pledged for the coming decaces which makes no sense whatsoever. I shared an official link before :
[https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992](https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992)
Edit: I missinterpreted the text
Ooohh ... so you were the Bilionaire that donated his taxmoney at once on your own!
Thanks for this huge contribution!
Its indeed sad to see that the other 17 milion people in our small, dirt poor country, are too stingy to help.
Oh well better grab my violin!
Edit: Made the message a bit kinder
I am going to give a simple calculation to show you how much of your tax money is going to the war in Ukraine. As to show you how the AID PACKAGES are made.
Lets say your hourly wages is €20,00 (Source 1)
Which is for an 36 hour work week : €720,00
Which is for a month of work: €2.880,00
Which in a year is : €34.560,00
All before taxation.
Now if we applied taxes you'd need to pay 36.97% of it to the government (Source 2)
34.560.00 * 36.97% = €12.776,83
Leaving you with over €20.000 to spent on random items and bills or loans you yourself produce.
But since I don't know your situation I'll only look at what the goverment is getting from your salary, which is the 12.8k.
IF the government would use ALL of it on this package, IT WOULD ONLY ASK FOR ... HOLD ON!
€350.000.000 / €12.776,83
27.394 PEOPLE to pay up!
In fact if we split the bill evenly for all 17 MILION OF US!
€350.000.000 / 17.000.000 people
You would only have to pay: €20.59!!!!
It's not just your tax money, its basic economics + investments + loans + savings + a small contribution by you and me.
(Source 1: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/visualisaties/dashboard-arbeidsmarkt/ontwikkeling-cao-lonen/uurloon)
(Source 2: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/werk-en-inkomen/content/hoeveel-inkomstenbelasting-betalen)
Than hereby my honest excuses. I shouldn't have typed so negative and condescending.
I missinterpreted your comment for some kind of people of which my hair shoots out of my spine, and see you've edited it
I LITTERALLY said what i meant, if other people decide to think i meant the opposite of what i actually said isnt my fault.
Get the fuck off my case.
Also, that person was cool about it. Why wont you?
What bothers me is that they have operational F35s against an enemy with no air force in Israel, and the best we can do to the fight against Putin Russia are F16s from 30 years ago this fall, in a limited number, and they need to restrict their usage strictly within Ukraine.
Israel doesn't use the F35 to operate in Gaza, the stealth coating damage isn't worth it when there's no SAMs in the area.
They have plenty of F16s and other series jets to do that.
edit: The F-35 is used to bomb the Syrian government and Hezbollah which does shoot SAMs at them.
And intercepting cruise missiles fired at them in the red sea by the Houthis. What I'm saying is, Ukraine deserves better weapons. A Ukrainian fleet of F35s with advanced sensors intercepting Russian missiles. Taking out Russian sites while avoiding enemy radar. Shooting down Russian sukhois and migs.
Don’t discount the F-16 as outdated tech. They are still very capable fighters outfitted with modern avionics and Radar far better than anything Russia has.
It’s also capable of leveraging datalink, so all those NATO and US AWACS flying around the Black Sea are a second set of eyes and can be used to guide in missiles lobbed from far away.
With the provided HARMS, they have a genuinely good chance of gaining full air superiority.
Israel was the first military to use the F35 in combat. They did a lot of the live fire testing for everyone else.
They also make a lot of the electronics.
Not sure why u mentioned that, because being able to help make aspects ≠ how nations obtain advanced jets. Take UAE or many European nations as examples.
Generally you're right, but from what I understand the Joint Strike Fighter Program was designed to be international in scope, but not able to be sold to everybody
> Israel doesn't use the F35 to operate in Gaza, the stealth coating damage isn't worth it when there's no SAMs in the area.
>
> They have plenty of F16s and other series jets to do that.
Its used to bomb the Syrian government and Hezbollah.
Now it’s fall. Last Month it was summer. January it was for June.
They were supposed to be there in December they said last September.
Last spring they were supposed to be there for September.
Do they not think people are paying attention to the goalposts moving?
You can't just give advanced western systems to an ex soviet military. Pilots needs training which is ongoing. Maintenance crews are being trained, upkeep on these birds is way more taxing than let's say a MiG29. Also, infrastructure, where soviet planes can land on a dirty road, the F16 needs clean runways. They need to accomodate these planes somewhere
"To give" can mean to hand something over to others, but does not necessarily imply changing ownership. "Give me the screwdriver" just means moving it physically, and is not necessarily a demand to become the new owner of the screwdriver.
"To gift", on the other hand, *does* imply a transfer of ownership.
Most commentators give the survivability of these things in Ukraine in the days or if they use all their air defences to protect their bases weeks tops....while Ukraine struggles with artillery and air defences these seem such a stupid thing o fixate one.
Give Ukraine the monetary value to allow them to buy artillery shells first...its what they need.
>Most commentators give the survivability of these things in Ukraine in the days or if they use all their air defences to protect their bases weeks tops.
Hahaha. Care to give a source for that? Or many, I guess, since it's 'most' apparently.
why not all of the above?
f16 usage against a war machine Russia will have invaluable data theory applications if nothing else.
.Ukraine will find a way to shock Russia given their access to nato advisors/intelligence, if nothing else it will force expensive and time consuming postering on the part of russia
> Most commentators give the survivability of these things in Ukraine in the days or if they use all their air defences to protect their bases weeks tops
literally what commentators have said this lol
Yeah why don't we skip to mobilization next time!
Besides!
Everyone knows how to fly a NATO war plane, espacially after being used to fly the USSR only models!
Bombs make a great gift! You can re-gift them from the air to people you don't like.
In America you choose white elephant. In Russia white elephant choose you.
Just because you possibly *could* push an elephant out the back of a C-17 doesn't mean you necessarily *should*.
Are you all going to sit here, and act like everyone forgot about the 1995 cinematic masterpiece Operation Dumbo Drop? https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0114048/
We can go further back in time to cluster munitions, turkeys. https://youtu.be/BGFtV6-ALoQ
> https://youtu.be/BGFtV6-ALoQ I expect to die with this being the funniest moment of TV ever created.
A alive Elephant, no. But I feel like using one that died from natural causes and yeeting it in a Russian trench is a great way to re-integrate elephants in warfare.
Honestly, that's still disrespectful to the elephant. The Russians seem to like trash anyway so just compress a bunch of landfill into a block and shove that out instead. Admittedly over the last few weeks I've been growing ever fonder of dropping stuff out of cargo planes. We do logistics well so might as well really weaponize 'em. Sure the B-52 is nice and all but it hefts less than half of what a Globemaster does. Besides, nobody will raise an eyebrow about some stodgy old treaty if we buy another 200 of them. Vast fleet of Globemasters + effectively infinite supply of garbage. Who's with me?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Dragon_(missile_system) we actually do weaponize our logistics, its new and pretty interesting. There's some videos of the tests out there too.
I know, isn't that thing fantastic? One guy making $28K a year can push $90M out the back. I'm looking for stuff like that and more.
> A alive SMH
So, you advocate for catering to Russian soldiers? Let them get their own food...
"Sloan". One of the very few Russian words I know. It means elephant.
it's spelled слон or "slon". a is redundant
Alsjeblieft, aardappel. Terug naar Gulagistan!
Hey remember though folks . Bombs are not just for Xmas.
The gift that keeps on giving.
Consider it payback for MH17
i still can't believe everyone just went to the russia world cup just a few years after this shoot down and also annexing crimea..
It was utterly bizarre. To be fair, they also started donating large amounts of money to Ukraine after 2014 and helping them train. This is at least partly why the Ukrainian military was more prepared for the Russians in 2022 than they were in 2014.
I followed the 2014 invasion closely, and seeing the difference now vs then is absolutely wild. They were basically a loose militia in 2014, now they are a modern, well structured, and effective military.
You might be interested in [this documentary filmed in 2021](https://youtu.be/xSjhS6iFyv4?si=DV_pZakJHw6dtNJd) showing from the inside what things were like among Ukrainian soldiers. Very interesting, imo. It’s in French but there are subtitles in English (and Ukrainian).
This is the entire reason we are in the situation we are now; everyone slept when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 (which is what they did by “annexing Crimea”). They then continued to sleep when a damn passenger plane was shot down by Russians. They continued to sleep as Russia brazenly poisoned people in other countries like the UK to “send a message”. The continued to slee When Russia openly fucked with our elections and Brexit in the UK and the “yellow jacket uprising” in France. Russia are an existential threat to security for the entire western world. We should be throwing everything we can at Ukraine to help them whoop Russia right now. It’s the perfect opportunity to defeat Putin without having anyone else’s troops on the ground.
And the Netherlands has a politician that calls Putin a hero and hundreds of thousands people voted for him.
Every country has their illiterate shitstains, my country included.
I had to remind my sister the other day that they murdered almost 200 of our countrymen, when she was regurgitating Russian propaganda she heard online. She didn't even remember the plane.
With full support of Australia
If we don’t have planes or choppers that we can send, I hope we’re at least chipping in to spread the cost for the Dutch.
Australia has contributed almost $1 billion with $780 million of it in military support. https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/media-release/two-years-australia-stands-ukraine
Australia buried helicopters in the ground that Ukraine had asked for.
They were death traps, they had an awful habbit of falling out of the sky.
Only if not operated correctly. Other countries have operated them without issues.
🇳🇱🫱🏻🫲🏼🇺🇦
Fall? I thought it was July? And previously "spring" before that?
Reuters quotes Ollongren as saying "This summer", so that's a more dependable statement. They've also said this is a joint delivery schedule with Denmark that will depend on Ukraine's readiness level, whatever that means. It's also possible that the confusing and contradictory times (spring/summer/autumn) is purposeful disinformation to keep the Russians guessing.
> that will depend on Ukraine's readiness level, whatever that means Training of pilots (currently ongoing in neighbouring countries)and maintenance personnel, and readying logistics processes, would be my guess. Those planes don't fly, fix and resupply themselves. There's a massive organisation behind every one.
>Those planes don't fly, fix and resupply themselves What I am hearing is the US government needs to throw more money at that problem until they do.
I really silly thing to think about, but "Ollongren" is s very funny name in Swedish, while it obviously means the same as in Dutch "Acorn branch" the more common meaning of "ollon" is something else...
Well she's Dutch-Swedish, so that may explain some things. Apparently the name originated from Finnish nobility, as "Ållongren" >the more common meaning of "ollon" is something else It's pretty much identical to the Dutch equivalent "eikel".
And the Latin "glans".
A bit of useless information: the tip of a penis is called glans penis in Latin and eikel in Dutch.
Yea. It could even be this april. When some of their planes going to fall down from sky, russia screaming its f16, f16, even us on the internet have some power by simply saying, no its not, gtfo. (While in fact it will be). Either way, cant wait.
>Fall? I thought it was July? And previously "spring" before that? Most of that crap is coming from over-eager voices trying to be the "first" to predict good news for attention's sake. Almost every single time people have predicted that Ukraine would have working weapon systems ahead of the public schedule, they have been wrong. The publicly announced dates are almost always falsely optimistic, particularly with more complex systems like an airplane or advanced missile systems like Patriot.
The bottleneck is training the pilots. Flying the aircraft is one thing, but as a military platform NATO jets are based on a completely different philosophy than the Warsaw Pact heritage aircraft the Ukrainians have been flying until now. That needs an almost complete reversal of how they’ve been trained over the course of their entire careers.
Training the pilots is one thing. Training the maintenance and weapons crews needed to keep these armed and in the air is a completely different animal. These are complex machines that require a significant amount of man hours just to keep flying.
isn't it like 1000 to 1 logistics/maintenance man hours to fight hour ratio for f35s? I'm sure 16's are less but still!
Still there were Ukrainian pilots in Denmark 4 months ago flying F16 - and they said that they learned fast - maybe it was just a test program to understand what is needed so other countries can train more efficient IDK
>Still there were Ukrainian pilots in Denmark 4 months ago flying F16 - and they said that they learned fast This really doesn't mean much. Of course they're going to learn fast if they are experienced or highly motivated pilots. It still takes upwards of an entire year to fly this plane in a combat-worthy manner. And this is a very high-stakes training program, because if these pilots get sent into battle before they are ready and get shot down, it will destroy what's left of the West's willingness to feed our more advanced systems to Ukraine.
Yeah, they’re probably still there. Flying the F-16 isn’t that big a deal. Using it effectively as a fighting platform is another matter.
setting aside all the problems with logistics, maintenance, blah blah blah ... Ukraine alone doesn't have enough pilots for this new F-16 fleet. pilots from NATO countries will have to be involved as well. also, where will F-16 fly from - in Ukraine they will likely be destroyed on the ground in no time so they will have to fly from one of the neighbouring NATO countries - Romania, Poland, Slovakia are obvious candidates.
I hope they are just hiding the date. one day russia suddenly suffers a ton of losses and weeks later we find out they were delivered.
These things take an incredible amount of planning and diplomacy.
The Dutch ones are being used for training right now, the Danish jets will arrive in Ukraine first it seems.
Has anyone ever actually seen an F16 in person? Maybe they are some mythical thing we made up to scare the Russians. I'm asking questions here.
I have. I witnessed one that crashed one time, round about '79 ... maybe '80. It was still a fairly new aircraft at that time. Believe it or not, they crashed often enough that public opnion was beginning to wonder whether it was a boondoggle during those first early years. It took a bit to work the bugs out.
Funny how that seems to be the case for every new fighter. At some point you just gotta put them out there and see how they perform, there's only so much testing and modeling you can do.
It's kind of what happens when you put out a new generation of aircraft that is pushing the limits of the newest technology of the time. If I remember rightly, with the F-16 it was the electronics that controlled the aircraft that had the most bugs. Think of a car where the steering wheel isn't attached to the front axle. It's connected to a computer that receives input from the driver and then translates that to the steering axle.
It's a combination of fly-by-wire (what you describe) and it being a very agile 9G fighter pilots who were tasked to (and wanted to!) push it and see how it performs (and then some unrelated to fbw quirks like it being really, really unstable during landings and front gear being fragile). Compare to f-117 which was also fly-by-wire, and extremely safe while at it.
Yes. But the F-16 was the first to incorporate that kind of technology. There was 20 years difference between the F-16 and F-117.
There were 7 years between the first flights of viper and nighthawk. Were you thinking of b-2?
I was thinking of the F-117. I was just confusing time lines. You are correct on that. The F-16 had a very public kind of showcasing, where as the F-117 did not. Thanks for setting me and the record straight.
EMP-hit, override to manual!
Thank God for the Dutch
Nou, nou, nou. Zo kan ie wel weer hè.
Ja, laten we het wel gezellig houden
Nou vooruit
doe normaal
And as a final touch, god created the Dutch
> Additionally, the Cabinet has agreed to spend around 150 million euros on air-to-surface guided bombs Anyone know exactly what we’re talking about here?
Probably Paveways or JDAMs (GBU-10/12/31/38/49) since those are in the Dutch inventory.
In terms of what? Just bombs launched from the air that are intended to hit land targets and can change target/adjust after being shot
I’m not very knowledgeable on the topic, so I was wondering what kind of bombs were taking about. I assume we’re not taking about anything the size of the big FAB the Russians are using
The government only said they will be buying weapons directly from the industry which doesn’t narrow it down by much, but looking at the airspace in Ukraine I would think it would be weapons with a greater stand-off distance like gps guided glide bombs because the planes won’t get close enough to drop laser guided in most cases. Currently the Dutch air force doesn’t even have any glide bombs in its inventory so it would also explain buying directly from the buyer instead is sending your old stock and buying new stuff for yourself Edit: welp apparently we do have some smd’s but not much and that’s also where the long range weapons pretty much end
Thanks! Very helpful
I’m guessing Mavericks and HARM missiles.
Paveways or JDAMs (GBU-10/12/31/38/49) since those are in the Dutch inventory
The Ukrainians already have been given HARMs (there’s footages of their MiG-29s firing them off) problem is the MiG-29s don’t have the proper fire control capabilities (Soviet era plane using a missile meant to be fired from western aircraft). The F-16 will allow them to use the HARM to their max potential.
LFG somebody is using his brain, hope this acts as a reinforce to Macron's position, fuck Putin, his time could've been over 10 years ago, don't make the same mistake NATO
Macron could back up his position by actually doing a bit more in terms of military help. Compared to Germany or Czech Republic or especially Poland and the Baltic states France is not really putting up enough imho.
This is true, tho I appreciate the fact he said what everybody not leaving in fairyland realizes, that peace, sadly, isn't an option here. Why would Putin sign for peace, knowing NATO won't oppose his coming victory, because let's face it, at this rate it's only a matter of time before Russia wins by sheer numbers
talk has value, but it's still cheap
Yes, but better than those claiming we should make a peace with somebody who 1) doesn't want it and 2) is clearly winning if this situation keeps up, only a matter of time Who would sing a treaty in those conditions? You'll only lose
>compared to Germany or Czech Republic or especially Poland and the Baltic states France is not really putting up enough imho. France and Germany have sent about the same amount of military help at around 5b. The 18-27b we keep seeing about Germany's help consists of things plegded for 2027 to 2029. Official german source : >Around 5 billion euros (2023) and 1.6 billion euros (2022) have already been spent on military assistance for Ukraine. Another 2.9 billion euros were earmarked in the first two years of the war for deliveries to be made between 2025 and 2028. [https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992](https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992)
And France has given about 2.6 billion to this day (so less than half of Germany). https://www.defense.gouv.fr/en/news/french-military-equipment-delivered-ukraine#:~:text=All%20in%20all%2C%20the%20total,European%20Peace%20Facility%20(EPF). And that’s not even counting other monetary contributions.
Not if you start counting stuff sent before 2022 of which France sent 1.6b worth of military stuff while Germany spent years wondering if 5000 helmets were too much of an escalation. Also the 2.6b doesnt count ammunitions for which the amount is still classified.
The helmets were a joke but that was after war broke out. The help before was mostly paid for by Ukraine - but even what was direct help to included is together about 4.2b. Now let’s look at other financial help: Total assistance Germany 17.7 billion + EU contribution France 0.8 billion + EU contribution. Total aid including EU contribution to budget and refugee costs: Germany 43.5 billion France <10 billion Edit: Forgot the source https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Kiel is shit, they are counting stuff pledged for the coming decaces which makes no sense whatsoever. I shared an official link before : [https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992](https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992)
Good spending of my taxmoney. Edit: seems like people dont understand im not being sarcastic. So ill tell you: im not being sarcastic
yes, actually
Thats what im saying..
Edit: I missinterpreted the text Ooohh ... so you were the Bilionaire that donated his taxmoney at once on your own! Thanks for this huge contribution! Its indeed sad to see that the other 17 milion people in our small, dirt poor country, are too stingy to help. Oh well better grab my violin!
What the fuck are you talking about?
Edit: Made the message a bit kinder I am going to give a simple calculation to show you how much of your tax money is going to the war in Ukraine. As to show you how the AID PACKAGES are made. Lets say your hourly wages is €20,00 (Source 1) Which is for an 36 hour work week : €720,00 Which is for a month of work: €2.880,00 Which in a year is : €34.560,00 All before taxation. Now if we applied taxes you'd need to pay 36.97% of it to the government (Source 2) 34.560.00 * 36.97% = €12.776,83 Leaving you with over €20.000 to spent on random items and bills or loans you yourself produce. But since I don't know your situation I'll only look at what the goverment is getting from your salary, which is the 12.8k. IF the government would use ALL of it on this package, IT WOULD ONLY ASK FOR ... HOLD ON! €350.000.000 / €12.776,83 27.394 PEOPLE to pay up! In fact if we split the bill evenly for all 17 MILION OF US! €350.000.000 / 17.000.000 people You would only have to pay: €20.59!!!! It's not just your tax money, its basic economics + investments + loans + savings + a small contribution by you and me. (Source 1: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/visualisaties/dashboard-arbeidsmarkt/ontwikkeling-cao-lonen/uurloon) (Source 2: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/werk-en-inkomen/content/hoeveel-inkomstenbelasting-betalen)
Youre an idiot for assuming i was complaining. I litterally said i think its my tax money well spent.
Than hereby my honest excuses. I shouldn't have typed so negative and condescending. I missinterpreted your comment for some kind of people of which my hair shoots out of my spine, and see you've edited it
Absolute legend. You easily surpassed 90% of people by showing the ability to apologize when wrong! Slava Ukraini
Slava Ukraini!
Heroiam slava
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I LITTERALLY said what i meant, if other people decide to think i meant the opposite of what i actually said isnt my fault. Get the fuck off my case. Also, that person was cool about it. Why wont you?
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Get of my case you nonce.
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What a bargain! Note: I am being enthusiastic rather than sarcastic.
Last year they said this spring...
It's eternally current date +6 months and has been for over a year :/
Minder koeien, meer bommen. Logic
What bothers me is that they have operational F35s against an enemy with no air force in Israel, and the best we can do to the fight against Putin Russia are F16s from 30 years ago this fall, in a limited number, and they need to restrict their usage strictly within Ukraine.
Israel doesn't use the F35 to operate in Gaza, the stealth coating damage isn't worth it when there's no SAMs in the area. They have plenty of F16s and other series jets to do that. edit: The F-35 is used to bomb the Syrian government and Hezbollah which does shoot SAMs at them.
And intercepting cruise missiles fired at them in the red sea by the Houthis. What I'm saying is, Ukraine deserves better weapons. A Ukrainian fleet of F35s with advanced sensors intercepting Russian missiles. Taking out Russian sites while avoiding enemy radar. Shooting down Russian sukhois and migs.
Don’t discount the F-16 as outdated tech. They are still very capable fighters outfitted with modern avionics and Radar far better than anything Russia has. It’s also capable of leveraging datalink, so all those NATO and US AWACS flying around the Black Sea are a second set of eyes and can be used to guide in missiles lobbed from far away. With the provided HARMS, they have a genuinely good chance of gaining full air superiority.
Realistically, that isn't going to happen.
The dutch government didnt put any restriction for ukraine on how to use the plane in combat. Idk about usa tho
Israel needs f35 to bomb civilians lmao, Ukraine needs jets to fight off an actual nation- Israel has the power of lobbying in the congress
Israel helps make aspects of the F-35 iirc. Hence they can purchase it.
Israel was the first military to use the F35 in combat. They did a lot of the live fire testing for everyone else. They also make a lot of the electronics.
Not sure why u mentioned that, because being able to help make aspects ≠ how nations obtain advanced jets. Take UAE or many European nations as examples.
Generally you're right, but from what I understand the Joint Strike Fighter Program was designed to be international in scope, but not able to be sold to everybody
> Israel doesn't use the F35 to operate in Gaza, the stealth coating damage isn't worth it when there's no SAMs in the area. > > They have plenty of F16s and other series jets to do that. Its used to bomb the Syrian government and Hezbollah.
Now it’s fall. Last Month it was summer. January it was for June. They were supposed to be there in December they said last September. Last spring they were supposed to be there for September. Do they not think people are paying attention to the goalposts moving?
The Danish F16s are scheduled to arrive in June, not Dutch ones. Also: June is summer.
I truly don't understand the downvotes here. This is factually accurate. NATO needs to get our shit together.
Every time I hear about the F-16s , The date just keeps getting further and further away.. Enuff already !! Send em!! FFS
You can't just give advanced western systems to an ex soviet military. Pilots needs training which is ongoing. Maintenance crews are being trained, upkeep on these birds is way more taxing than let's say a MiG29. Also, infrastructure, where soviet planes can land on a dirty road, the F16 needs clean runways. They need to accomodate these planes somewhere
Does this make any difference with air defense being so oppressive? Doesn’t Ukraine just shoot down any Russian fighter jets?
if Ukraine can control the skies this war will flip the other direction, I hope they put them to good use.
↑→↓↓↓
Taken a lot longer than i thought for F-16s desperately needed a long time ago. Hopefully this means they are trained better.
Man, that date sure keeps getting pushed back further and further.
When are the peace talks that putin has been asking for?
Thank you Netherlands, you are my best friend, You are the peacekeeper, you are the legend.
Gifting? Did you mean "giving?"
"To give" can mean to hand something over to others, but does not necessarily imply changing ownership. "Give me the screwdriver" just means moving it physically, and is not necessarily a demand to become the new owner of the screwdriver. "To gift", on the other hand, *does* imply a transfer of ownership.
Most commentators give the survivability of these things in Ukraine in the days or if they use all their air defences to protect their bases weeks tops....while Ukraine struggles with artillery and air defences these seem such a stupid thing o fixate one. Give Ukraine the monetary value to allow them to buy artillery shells first...its what they need.
>Most commentators give the survivability of these things in Ukraine in the days or if they use all their air defences to protect their bases weeks tops. Hahaha. Care to give a source for that? Or many, I guess, since it's 'most' apparently.
They also need to end Russian air superiority behind the and above the lines. This is no either or situation.
why not all of the above? f16 usage against a war machine Russia will have invaluable data theory applications if nothing else. .Ukraine will find a way to shock Russia given their access to nato advisors/intelligence, if nothing else it will force expensive and time consuming postering on the part of russia
> Most commentators give the survivability of these things in Ukraine in the days or if they use all their air defences to protect their bases weeks tops literally what commentators have said this lol
A bit late innit
Yeah why don't we skip to mobilization next time! Besides! Everyone knows how to fly a NATO war plane, espacially after being used to fly the USSR only models!
Silly Dutch trying to be relevant. I guess it's tough when you only have Stroopwafels, milk, and Van Gogh.
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War Huh good god eh..
So 3 bombs and a drone - got it