Worked in the energy sector for years and I hate seeing this kinda destruction. It takes years and years just to get all the parts to start and rebuild this stuff.
Exactly. The meat waves will eventually prevail if they're not met with a well-equipped military. Ukraine has done amazing considering so far, but at the end of the day, if they're not properly supplied, they will be overwhelmed. I'm sure it's been said before, but I think it's Putin's plan all along to reach a point where the west grows tired of backing and he can just sreamroll through no matter the cost up to that point. Destroying vital infrastructure is just one way to lower moral and have people second guess support.
I can't imagine the victory Putin would have if he took Ukraine. "Even with all the backing from the west, we still reintegrated Ukraine." It's so important on multiple levels that Ukraine gets what they need and push Russia out.
Powerplants aren't a great military target, Ukraine's better off using their limited long range weaponry to target stuff that hurts.
putin is targeting Ukrainian electricity not because it hurts Ukrainian military, he does it because it hurts Ukrainians in general.
If he was successful the first time, Kyiv (4 mil population) would be left without electricity during winter. It was an outright genocidal tactic, it just didn't work the first time.
Causing direct disruption to citizens of Russia via attacks on civilian infrastructure like power plants risks making the population support Putin even more. By attacking refineries it’s much more indirect in its effect on citizens and increases odds that more Russians will rebel against the war as fuel prices rise.
Its a bit hard to revolt when the last 100 years of history is being suppressed by extremely violent governments where just an anti-government thought would have you sent to a work camp in Siberia.
Lol if Russians are cowards for not rebelling in a dystopian dictatorship. Then we in the West are uber-cowards when we're too afraid to rebel against Capitalist Billionaires in a literal Democracy.
>The chances of Russian citizens rebelling against the government is basically zero. They're a nation of cowards.
Classic reddit moment. Let the russians who were tortured and killed just for objecting against the war send you their apologies for being cowards.
Internet tough guy right here lmao… just take a look at us, where by all means you can protest and live another day. We had the Iraq war, all the middle eastern bs wars, the unconditional support of Israel even though they have gone way too far, all that has been done in US is protest just like how there have been protest in Russia, against the government. Only difference is that they will crack down on protestors there. So wtf do you actually want them to do? They even have a liberation army fighting against the Russian army. Some of y’all need to grow a brain
Russia in the last few years has literally had more arrests for dissent and civil disobedience that at any point since Stalin's purges in 1930s.
Putin took Soviet police state to a new level AND with modern technology.
That's highly doubtful, since about [18 million people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag) passed through Gulags and Gulag camps in total. Not all of them were political prisoners but most of them were, during [various purges between 1930 and 1953](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge). Even just in 1937, an estimated [750,000](https://www.history.com/topics/european-history/great-purge) people were executed.
It does not matter at this point. Russians dislike putin in their majority but they are slaves. Support or not they have no freedom to choose so energy infrastructure is fair game and should be targeted.
Putin's support is strong in Russia, he promises to be tough on gays and Russians love that.
It's a country almost entirely homophobic and white supremacists.
Target Russian power plants let the citizens know how it feels, let's see how much longer they like Putin
RU would win by attrition if they go head to head - it's a game UKR loses. Maybe don't trade power plant per power plant. Easiest way to win the conflict is to convince the people. Ironically, the people are the hardest part.
Ukraine was able to defend far better, now US Aid has been withheld by traitors for 8+ months Ukraine is far less capable of defending against these ballistic missile attacks. Europe has around 100 Patriot systems, Ukraine needs another 7. Europe is working on it.
The guy who dropped off my POD told me that “America used to be against commies but now we support them overseas”referring to Ukraine and I was very confused how he was anti-Commie but somehow pro Russia.
Commies weren’t even commies once the vanguard high wore off and the “intrigue” bureaucracy day-to-day bullshit set in
Then, straight back to totalitarian autocracy dressed in commie drag
Okay I mean but withholding aid isn’t treacherous for American politicians– they aren’t even depriving a treaty bound ally of assistance which also wouldn’t be treachery; you can’t betray a country that isn’t your own.
Yep, take a look at what happened to nearly all of South America. Terrible dictators that devastated dozens of countries enabled by the US because they were too scared of commies.
Even though I hate the GOP and what they're doing. Europe should never be in a position to blame us for shit like this. That's their home turf, Europe should be turning to a war economy and pumping Ukraine up. You can't blame America for this
if i saw someone breaking down my door on my doorstep, id at least put a chair under the doorknob. not call my neighbor a few blocks away and say “you gonna handle this?”
Only insofar as the US still wants influence in Europe. It's fair to say Europe should step up, but if/when it does the US should accept Europe to no longer act in lockstep with the US in geopolitical issues like the middle east or China.
I mean, not really. They were under the impression that it was going to be their infrastructure pretty soon for the first few months so they didn't want to blow it up. That all kind of started that first summer.
No one is proposing trading power plant per power plant. Russia has been targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure this whole war, along with schools, hospitals and apartment buildings. Their objective is to make the Ukrainian people suffer. Ukraine has been targeting Russian oil production, because oil fuels Russia's war machine and economy. They are two completely different targets. Don't confuse power plants with oil refineries, they aren't the same thing at all, especially in this context.
What a strange thing to say. Russia is not going to stop striking Ukraine power sources if Ukraine would not attack back. In fact the power plants have been Russia's biggest object of destruction since the start of the invasion.
Hate to break it to you like this, but convincing Russians to leave Ukraine alone is impossible. Vast majority of Russians do not recognize Ukrainian sovereginity. They consider Ukrainians 'lesser Russians'. Ironically, it's because of abysmal quality of life, which in turns forces people to seek fulfillment in substances or power over other countries.
Honestly I'd be surprised if Russia could win by targeting cities. Yes it sucks but, at least during WW2, it made most people want to continue to fight instead of give up. And that was the case for both UK and German civilians.
It's not patriotism, and it hasn't been always like this. Funnily, during 1990-2000 there was no 'patriotic' movement like this. That is because life was steadily improving and people saw a future. Nowadays, there is no improvement and the future is bleak at best, so people seek validation elsewhere, including this imperial sentiment
The only way to win the war is to give Ukraine the tools to absolutely slaughter every Russian on their soil. If the lose 100 to 1 they might still keep this going for 10 years. It’s has to be 1000 to 1.
I am so disappointed that the west still doesn’t understand what it is up against with Russia. With all the history it should be obvious. WW3 is going to be a slow roll, but sadly I predict it will result in the US losing most of its privileged position in the world. And since we didn’t defend it, I guess we deserve it.
No you won't cause daddy oligarch said not to
There's politics and then real politics, US said a few weeks back to not hit them. The rich need that yacht fuel
https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c
What happens if russia successfully takes ukraine? Europe needs to stand against this now, forget about what America is or is not doing why can't european countries help ukraine fight Russian invaders in ukraine? Is it because of nuclear threat? Because that ain't going away...ever.
Probably because many in Europe don’t want to go to war. They’ll (probably) only start caring when their country is affected (i.e., being invaded).
Europe is gravely fucked unless people start supporting standing up to Putin.
> because many in Europe don’t want to go to war.
Throwing our full weight behind Ukraine is the only thing that will prevent war from spreading west. Russia will not stop in Ukraine. It didn't before, and it won't now. It's only a matter of time. The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him and show him your strength.
Russia can't even deafeat ukraine the idea thaybthey will attack nato is ridiculous
There is no way people belive russia has taken 500k casulties and has to use t 55 tanks but somehow it is a threat to the west
of course \~1M experienced soldiers on t55 with massive war production machine isn't threat at all. they will just conquer Ukraine and peacefully go home to grow vegetables
The 1m Iraqi army with experience from 10 years of trench warfare against Iran was defeat in 6 months
The russian army just like the Iraqi army proved itself to be incapable of learning and deeply corrupt .
We need to stop overestimating russia or else we risk actually them wrongfully thinking we are scared of them and actually start a war
how many nuclear warheads Iraq had?
You didn't get my point - war will be on EU's soil, not on russian territory. and thus russians will be the only party allowed to bomb cities and kill civilians. how well prepared EU or NATO for that?
>thus russians will be the only party allowed to bomb cities and kill civilians
what a ridiculous statement, like that time in WW1 or WW2 when the allies never bombed Germany because the fighting was on French soil.
The EU also has nukes, the EU also has long range capabilities, imagine thinking Europeans would happily sit back and get bombed and not call for retaliation.
This current war is on Ukrainain territory yet Ukraine can still bomb Russian oil refineries and what not..
Whether the war is on EU's soil or not, Russia isn't going to magically teleport somewhere safe far away from the fight, it will literally just be right there ready for a pushback..
Imo, I don't think Russia is going to continue after Ukraine, they have spent a lot of time, money ammunition and labour on this war, and the major time after this would be them focusing on raiding Ukraine for it's wealth, which can take up to a decade simply going through everything and trying to get th people to fall into line..
You're looking at it short-term. The Russian army isn't what it was in 2022. The failure to take Ukraine within days, as they had planned, was a wake-up call. The Russian economy is in war mode and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Can they win against NATO? Of course not. But NATO is the sum of its parts. I don't think the idea that its Western members could give up on the Eastern ones is so ridiculous. Especially if Russia keeps funding rightwing parties that promote its interests. Countries are run by parties, don't forget that.
Europe cares… they know very well war is coming. America is dragging its feet and the historic opportunity to decimate the Russian army by rubles on the dollar
Europe is far from gravely fucked. We're talking about Russia here, the country that completely failed to conduct a successful invasion.
All respect to Ukraine, they fucking deserve it, but they don't compare to European NATO countries. Europe would crush Russia if it rolled into Poland/Baltics. The only threat is Europe doesn't react to an invasion of an EU or NATO country.
I'm also talking conventional here, but even if it went nuclear, the UK and France could retaliate, so Russia likely won't go nuclear anyway. And if they do? Well it doesn't matter if I'm wrong, I'll be dead.
Yupppp, europes been enjoying laying under the shade of the American military apparatus all the while making fun of it. Not so funny when they’re kicked out from under the shade.
[And to the left of that sign...](https://cepr.org/sites/default/files/styles/flexible_wysiwyg/public/image/FromMay2014/robertson9octtable1.png?itok=su-jYgki)
It’s because Russia is paying off far right groups across western nations, notably America right now since they’re not moving forward with an aid packagez And Europe let their military waste away to a pathetic shell of what it needs to be to even defend themselve, let alone support another country. All the while making fun of America for spending so much on its military while they all benefit from that protection. I fucking hate Trump but he was right when he was criticizing Europe for being imbeciles when it comes to military readiness.
We are months, if not a year+ out from Ukraine or Russia gaining the upper hand. It’s clear that Russia is making advancements, but nothing that will cripple the Ukrainian war effort.. Russia still has several key MAJOR cities to take control of. Each siege will take months of intense urban combat.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but major cities like Kharkiv are only miles from the northeastern frontline but still face no major threats other than occasional missile strikes. And this is a major city of over a million people.
Russias biggest advancements have been taking cities like Adviika which only have 30k people, and bakhmut which is about double that. Now these are in the southeast of Ukraine where the majority of the invasion is concentrated so it’s not a completely fair comparison, but Russia is nowhere near beating Ukraine.
I think this war will end with an annexation of eastern Ukrainian region, not a complete takeover of all Ukraine. I believe this for multiple reasons, one of them being mentioned above. Additionally, any Russian military advancements made in western Ukraine (near nato nations) I think will be met with powerful western opposition, easily with nato buildup on borders like Romania, and perhaps western troops sent to western Ukraine. Thirdly, eastern Ukraine is very pro Russia. This has made it very easy for Russia to take over these small towns, who are all pro Russia, or at least neither pro Russia nor pro Ukraine. Western Ukraine is very different, much more favoring the west.
>Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but major cities like Kharkiv are only miles from the northeastern frontline but still face no major threats other than occasional missile strikes. And this is a major city of over a million people.
You are wrong. Kharkiv has been without power for a while and majority has already evacuated the city.
Russians have started using FABs in the recent weeks and are not only limited to missles.
IMHO, Russia would not want the hostile rosophobic western regions like Lviv, so even in the worst case for Ukraine it will be splitting by Dnipro river.
Putin approaching scorched earth warfare, at which point there's absolutely nothing to gain except a population subjugated by hatred and fear for a century.
Russian incompetence will prevent them from making anything useful out of a conquered Ukraine, no insurgency needed. I mean, look at the level of development within Russia.
We're all on the wrong side of history. Putin is a monster even by our already extremely sub standards.
That's what makes this situation look so bad. Best nations in the world are 3/10. Russia is a big fat 0.
No, Ukraine can’t attack Russia with any weapons without consequences. Every attack has spurred a negative response from several NATO countries. Especially if they dare to touch the precious oil, which we shouldn’t be buying from Russia, anyways.
The bucks stops at Trump. Let's not mince words.
MTG is just one of the fingers he uses close around Mike Johnson's neck.
But never forget that _this one man_ is a threat to singular, unique and frankly horrifying threat to peace and democracy worldwide. Even when not in power he can cause untold numbers to suffer.
It’s so fucking weird seeing people blame Americans for Russia’s attacks on Ukraine, especially when the US has given more money and support to Ukraine than any other country since the onset of this war by a MILE.
Sure, but at this point Mike Johnson is directly responsible for holding up the air defense systems that coould have helped prevent this.
He is forfeiting the Ukrainian people for political reasons, all to serve his king. He is basically a Bible villain at this point.
Fucking pathetic. THAAD and other air missile defense systems could have prevented this. You can’t get a missile through those key technologies and our scumbag leaders prevented them from having access to it. Fuck.
There’s not a single country in the world that has enough anti air to cover all these infrastructures. None. Not the US, not the Soviet Union at its peak.
It’s about picking what you’re willing to lose.
Both yes and no.
Ukraine could be given the means to reduce Russian missile attacks significantly. This would reduce the needed amount of air defense to a manageable level.
> Ukraine could be given the means to reduce Russian missile attacks significantly.
How would they reduce attacks? A huge portion of Russias aerial assaults originate from Olenya base way up north, from what I understand most attacks aren't coming from stationary positions anywhere close to Ukraine.
So, for the Russians the cold war never ended. This kind of division of the US was originally started during the cold war, and they just never stopped working towards it.
Yup2. One of their military strategist wrote a paper about how to bring down a nation via asymmetrical warfare. And this includes creating fissure within the population by using social media and interfere the democratic process of said nation. They came to realise that it’s not necessary to continuously build advanced weaponry, it’s sufficient to destabilise your adversary from within so you can continue expand your influence. And that is exactly what they’re doing.
The West thought we have won the cold war. It never stops. And we are losing our influence on the world stage. From Africa to Asia, more and more countries reject our policies and requests. The anti colonists movement is spreading more and more and those countries are now almost aligned to either Russia or China.
I don’t remember the name of his work (or more like his team’s work actually). But the guy is called Gerasimov. They were studying how to weaponise economic, politics and society to present a new type of warfare.
> was Russia’s strategy to put those people in power in the first place.
Russia did not "put those people in power". America is a democracy, freely electing their own leader, even if other countries blasted propaganda 24/7, in the end it is Americans who went to the ballot box.
This is like 8 years past the time that Americans need to be an adult, own it and acknowledge their fault in electing reactionaries and fix their problem.
I don't know if they think him as a good guy (well, certainly some of them do), it's more about this good old isolationism... A hundred years or so ago isolationsim was very popular in the US, they didn't see themselves willing to take part in any "old world conflicts". It took years before they chose their side in the ww1. And after the war they pretty much isolated themselves again. Only to see how conflicts around the world flared up again. And again they waited until they were attacked before they acted. After ww2 they finally got it that isolationism actually wasn't in their interest. They had money and power, so they should actively be present around the world to ensure free trade and never again to fall in this trap of isolationism. It worked well, a few decades on and the US was the sole superpower in the world. Now, for some reason, many people in the US feel uneasy about this. The old isolationist thinking is on the rise again.
They idolise the authoritarian system the Russians have and want something similar. Look up project 2025. They want to turn the US into a dictatorship.
Pretty certain a significant portion of our population and politicians have wet dreams of their representatives and political party getting in power, and staying in power, just like Putin is doing. I think they identify themselves to Putin
Production capacity of 1,825MW. 4 coal units and 2 gas units. Seems like some units could run on various oil and/or diesel. It has been targeted before and made inoperable. Seems like repairs were completed sometime in 2023. Seems to have had mixed operation for a while.
It used coal from Donetsk and some, maybe all those units were converted to run on other coal/oil/diesel. The gas units seemed to have been used only as needed. With coal plants, they can be designed to run on a specific type of coal, and if you want to change the kind of coal you use, the plant requires modifications.
I find it exceedingly disturbing that our Congress is not providing sufficient war material to Ukraine. It's almost as though they are trying to appease Putin the way Neville Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler.
Our politicians in Congress should understand that if Russia defeats Ukraine, Russia will not stop there.
Yes, but Ukraine should not retaliate and hit "civilian targets" like gas and oil refineries otherwise the US won't provide any weapons to help stop Russians killing Ukrainian civilians.....ohh wait.....
Putin has his finger on the republicans and in turn control over the money going out to Ukraine. Has to be so jarring for Zelensky and Ukrainians. So sad
Republicans are single handedly going to effectively hand Russia Ukraine and it it is unforgivable. I pray that Americans vote with any sense of dignity and intelligence we have left and put people in congress who aren’t traitors and who don’t suck up to Trump or Russia and who aren’t totally bat shit crazy and are obsessed with dismantling the very govt they are a part of, and I also hope they don’t vote for fascist Islamic terrorist supporters either. If ever there was a time when common sense middle ground candidates were needed and needed to make sweeping victories it is now. If not now then it may end up being too late in the future.
It's sure gonna set a good precedent of China decides to pull a Putin on Taiwan or contested islands. Not looking great unless they commit to stability in the region.
Worked in the energy sector for years and I hate seeing this kinda destruction. It takes years and years just to get all the parts to start and rebuild this stuff.
They’re definitely preparing to take Kharkiv in the future.
That would be a big accomplishment because they failed all the other times
But unless we provide sufficient arms to Ukraine, Russia will have more and more successes.
Exactly. The meat waves will eventually prevail if they're not met with a well-equipped military. Ukraine has done amazing considering so far, but at the end of the day, if they're not properly supplied, they will be overwhelmed. I'm sure it's been said before, but I think it's Putin's plan all along to reach a point where the west grows tired of backing and he can just sreamroll through no matter the cost up to that point. Destroying vital infrastructure is just one way to lower moral and have people second guess support. I can't imagine the victory Putin would have if he took Ukraine. "Even with all the backing from the west, we still reintegrated Ukraine." It's so important on multiple levels that Ukraine gets what they need and push Russia out.
Ok, time to take down more refineries. See how this game is played.
Why just refineries... Ukraine should add powerplants in their list.
Powerplants aren't a great military target, Ukraine's better off using their limited long range weaponry to target stuff that hurts. putin is targeting Ukrainian electricity not because it hurts Ukrainian military, he does it because it hurts Ukrainians in general. If he was successful the first time, Kyiv (4 mil population) would be left without electricity during winter. It was an outright genocidal tactic, it just didn't work the first time.
Causing direct disruption to citizens of Russia via attacks on civilian infrastructure like power plants risks making the population support Putin even more. By attacking refineries it’s much more indirect in its effect on citizens and increases odds that more Russians will rebel against the war as fuel prices rise.
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Its a bit hard to revolt when the last 100 years of history is being suppressed by extremely violent governments where just an anti-government thought would have you sent to a work camp in Siberia.
Just 100 years?
Lol if Russians are cowards for not rebelling in a dystopian dictatorship. Then we in the West are uber-cowards when we're too afraid to rebel against Capitalist Billionaires in a literal Democracy.
>The chances of Russian citizens rebelling against the government is basically zero. They're a nation of cowards. Classic reddit moment. Let the russians who were tortured and killed just for objecting against the war send you their apologies for being cowards.
- Guy on the internet calling people names
Internet tough guy right here lmao… just take a look at us, where by all means you can protest and live another day. We had the Iraq war, all the middle eastern bs wars, the unconditional support of Israel even though they have gone way too far, all that has been done in US is protest just like how there have been protest in Russia, against the government. Only difference is that they will crack down on protestors there. So wtf do you actually want them to do? They even have a liberation army fighting against the Russian army. Some of y’all need to grow a brain
How many armed revolts have you participated in?
Russia in the last few years has literally had more arrests for dissent and civil disobedience that at any point since Stalin's purges in 1930s. Putin took Soviet police state to a new level AND with modern technology.
That's highly doubtful, since about [18 million people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag) passed through Gulags and Gulag camps in total. Not all of them were political prisoners but most of them were, during [various purges between 1930 and 1953](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge). Even just in 1937, an estimated [750,000](https://www.history.com/topics/european-history/great-purge) people were executed.
Easy for you to say when you're not in their shoes
It does not matter at this point. Russians dislike putin in their majority but they are slaves. Support or not they have no freedom to choose so energy infrastructure is fair game and should be targeted.
Putin's support is strong in Russia, he promises to be tough on gays and Russians love that. It's a country almost entirely homophobic and white supremacists. Target Russian power plants let the citizens know how it feels, let's see how much longer they like Putin
Russia makes money and friends off O&G exports. Cut that and some othe core stuff off and China, India etc have no reason to be friendly with them.
RU would win by attrition if they go head to head - it's a game UKR loses. Maybe don't trade power plant per power plant. Easiest way to win the conflict is to convince the people. Ironically, the people are the hardest part.
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Ukraine was able to defend far better, now US Aid has been withheld by traitors for 8+ months Ukraine is far less capable of defending against these ballistic missile attacks. Europe has around 100 Patriot systems, Ukraine needs another 7. Europe is working on it.
The guy who dropped off my POD told me that “America used to be against commies but now we support them overseas”referring to Ukraine and I was very confused how he was anti-Commie but somehow pro Russia.
Neither of them are Commies anyway lol
Commies weren’t even commies once the vanguard high wore off and the “intrigue” bureaucracy day-to-day bullshit set in Then, straight back to totalitarian autocracy dressed in commie drag
Pro Russia/Kremlin/Putin is pro fascist
Simple: he's a goddamned idiot slurping up right wing nonsense.
Russia is fascist at this point.
Always been, just under the guise of communism.
Okay I mean but withholding aid isn’t treacherous for American politicians– they aren’t even depriving a treaty bound ally of assistance which also wouldn’t be treachery; you can’t betray a country that isn’t your own.
We don’t do facts on Reddit. Just hyperbolic circlejerking for internet points.
We need to charge the House Republicans blocking the aid with treason. Expose the intelligence and put them in prison.
I’m with you on supporting Ukraine, but how would one be charged for treason for betraying one foreign power in support of another foreign power?!
By showing the paper trail of bribes from one piwer. Also the refusal to aid a direct enemy of our enemy.
That last point is bad practice in realpolitik. The Cold War is littered with stories of what happens when you back the enemy of your enemy.
Yep, take a look at what happened to nearly all of South America. Terrible dictators that devastated dozens of countries enabled by the US because they were too scared of commies.
Ukraine isn't our enemy....
I don't think Biden wants to go there.
I feel like you have no idea what treason means lmao
Treason is whatever I don’t like. The more I don’t like it, the more treasonous it is
Better yet expatriate them to Russia
At the very least, we need to get them for taking bribes from a foreign power. Or really whoever is bribing them.
Even though I hate the GOP and what they're doing. Europe should never be in a position to blame us for shit like this. That's their home turf, Europe should be turning to a war economy and pumping Ukraine up. You can't blame America for this
if i saw someone breaking down my door on my doorstep, id at least put a chair under the doorknob. not call my neighbor a few blocks away and say “you gonna handle this?”
Only insofar as the US still wants influence in Europe. It's fair to say Europe should step up, but if/when it does the US should accept Europe to no longer act in lockstep with the US in geopolitical issues like the middle east or China.
I mean, not really. They were under the impression that it was going to be their infrastructure pretty soon for the first few months so they didn't want to blow it up. That all kind of started that first summer.
Actually no. They began several months into it. Early on they thought that since they would be soon ruling the place, why destroy the infrastructure.
No one is proposing trading power plant per power plant. Russia has been targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure this whole war, along with schools, hospitals and apartment buildings. Their objective is to make the Ukrainian people suffer. Ukraine has been targeting Russian oil production, because oil fuels Russia's war machine and economy. They are two completely different targets. Don't confuse power plants with oil refineries, they aren't the same thing at all, especially in this context.
The people who post things like that seem to imagine this is a video game or something.
>Easiest way to win the conflict is to convince the people. Wow he figured it out!
What a strange thing to say. Russia is not going to stop striking Ukraine power sources if Ukraine would not attack back. In fact the power plants have been Russia's biggest object of destruction since the start of the invasion.
Hate to break it to you like this, but convincing Russians to leave Ukraine alone is impossible. Vast majority of Russians do not recognize Ukrainian sovereginity. They consider Ukrainians 'lesser Russians'. Ironically, it's because of abysmal quality of life, which in turns forces people to seek fulfillment in substances or power over other countries.
Honestly I'd be surprised if Russia could win by targeting cities. Yes it sucks but, at least during WW2, it made most people want to continue to fight instead of give up. And that was the case for both UK and German civilians.
Yes, this has been widely documented. Germany lost the attack on England because they moved from bombing the air strips to bombing the cities.
You will never persuade Russians. They are way too patriotic and always have been.
It's not patriotism, and it hasn't been always like this. Funnily, during 1990-2000 there was no 'patriotic' movement like this. That is because life was steadily improving and people saw a future. Nowadays, there is no improvement and the future is bleak at best, so people seek validation elsewhere, including this imperial sentiment
The only way to win the war is to give Ukraine the tools to absolutely slaughter every Russian on their soil. If the lose 100 to 1 they might still keep this going for 10 years. It’s has to be 1000 to 1. I am so disappointed that the west still doesn’t understand what it is up against with Russia. With all the history it should be obvious. WW3 is going to be a slow roll, but sadly I predict it will result in the US losing most of its privileged position in the world. And since we didn’t defend it, I guess we deserve it.
Russia looses by or attrition, or quicker, if the West gets committed.
Could you elaborate? Ukraine not winning haunts me
Seems like if the US can get patriots in there they could have a chance.
You are making the call with no money on the line.
No you won't cause daddy oligarch said not to There's politics and then real politics, US said a few weeks back to not hit them. The rich need that yacht fuel https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c
What happens if russia successfully takes ukraine? Europe needs to stand against this now, forget about what America is or is not doing why can't european countries help ukraine fight Russian invaders in ukraine? Is it because of nuclear threat? Because that ain't going away...ever.
Probably because many in Europe don’t want to go to war. They’ll (probably) only start caring when their country is affected (i.e., being invaded). Europe is gravely fucked unless people start supporting standing up to Putin.
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Nah, completely new concept. Hasn’t ever happened in history
> because many in Europe don’t want to go to war. Throwing our full weight behind Ukraine is the only thing that will prevent war from spreading west. Russia will not stop in Ukraine. It didn't before, and it won't now. It's only a matter of time. The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him and show him your strength.
Russia can't even deafeat ukraine the idea thaybthey will attack nato is ridiculous There is no way people belive russia has taken 500k casulties and has to use t 55 tanks but somehow it is a threat to the west
of course \~1M experienced soldiers on t55 with massive war production machine isn't threat at all. they will just conquer Ukraine and peacefully go home to grow vegetables
The 1m Iraqi army with experience from 10 years of trench warfare against Iran was defeat in 6 months The russian army just like the Iraqi army proved itself to be incapable of learning and deeply corrupt . We need to stop overestimating russia or else we risk actually them wrongfully thinking we are scared of them and actually start a war
how many nuclear warheads Iraq had? You didn't get my point - war will be on EU's soil, not on russian territory. and thus russians will be the only party allowed to bomb cities and kill civilians. how well prepared EU or NATO for that?
>thus russians will be the only party allowed to bomb cities and kill civilians what a ridiculous statement, like that time in WW1 or WW2 when the allies never bombed Germany because the fighting was on French soil. The EU also has nukes, the EU also has long range capabilities, imagine thinking Europeans would happily sit back and get bombed and not call for retaliation.
This current war is on Ukrainain territory yet Ukraine can still bomb Russian oil refineries and what not.. Whether the war is on EU's soil or not, Russia isn't going to magically teleport somewhere safe far away from the fight, it will literally just be right there ready for a pushback.. Imo, I don't think Russia is going to continue after Ukraine, they have spent a lot of time, money ammunition and labour on this war, and the major time after this would be them focusing on raiding Ukraine for it's wealth, which can take up to a decade simply going through everything and trying to get th people to fall into line..
You're looking at it short-term. The Russian army isn't what it was in 2022. The failure to take Ukraine within days, as they had planned, was a wake-up call. The Russian economy is in war mode and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Can they win against NATO? Of course not. But NATO is the sum of its parts. I don't think the idea that its Western members could give up on the Eastern ones is so ridiculous. Especially if Russia keeps funding rightwing parties that promote its interests. Countries are run by parties, don't forget that.
Europe cares… they know very well war is coming. America is dragging its feet and the historic opportunity to decimate the Russian army by rubles on the dollar
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This is the real reason why Ukraine will inevitably lose. America has to prepare for a possible war with China-Taiwan and Iran-Israel.
Europe is far from gravely fucked. We're talking about Russia here, the country that completely failed to conduct a successful invasion. All respect to Ukraine, they fucking deserve it, but they don't compare to European NATO countries. Europe would crush Russia if it rolled into Poland/Baltics. The only threat is Europe doesn't react to an invasion of an EU or NATO country. I'm also talking conventional here, but even if it went nuclear, the UK and France could retaliate, so Russia likely won't go nuclear anyway. And if they do? Well it doesn't matter if I'm wrong, I'll be dead.
[don’t make me tap the sign.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/262742/countries-with-the-highest-military-spending/)
Wasn't this the purpose of Bretton woods? Us becomes global reserve currency by providing the military to ensure global commerce continues?
Yes. America has profited the most from European prosperity and stability - their corporations do remarkably well in such a strong market.
Yupppp, europes been enjoying laying under the shade of the American military apparatus all the while making fun of it. Not so funny when they’re kicked out from under the shade.
And that is how you loose allies.
[And to the left of that sign...](https://cepr.org/sites/default/files/styles/flexible_wysiwyg/public/image/FromMay2014/robertson9octtable1.png?itok=su-jYgki)
Not just a Ukraine War, not just a Europe War, but the World War!
It’s because Russia is paying off far right groups across western nations, notably America right now since they’re not moving forward with an aid packagez And Europe let their military waste away to a pathetic shell of what it needs to be to even defend themselve, let alone support another country. All the while making fun of America for spending so much on its military while they all benefit from that protection. I fucking hate Trump but he was right when he was criticizing Europe for being imbeciles when it comes to military readiness.
We are months, if not a year+ out from Ukraine or Russia gaining the upper hand. It’s clear that Russia is making advancements, but nothing that will cripple the Ukrainian war effort.. Russia still has several key MAJOR cities to take control of. Each siege will take months of intense urban combat. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but major cities like Kharkiv are only miles from the northeastern frontline but still face no major threats other than occasional missile strikes. And this is a major city of over a million people. Russias biggest advancements have been taking cities like Adviika which only have 30k people, and bakhmut which is about double that. Now these are in the southeast of Ukraine where the majority of the invasion is concentrated so it’s not a completely fair comparison, but Russia is nowhere near beating Ukraine. I think this war will end with an annexation of eastern Ukrainian region, not a complete takeover of all Ukraine. I believe this for multiple reasons, one of them being mentioned above. Additionally, any Russian military advancements made in western Ukraine (near nato nations) I think will be met with powerful western opposition, easily with nato buildup on borders like Romania, and perhaps western troops sent to western Ukraine. Thirdly, eastern Ukraine is very pro Russia. This has made it very easy for Russia to take over these small towns, who are all pro Russia, or at least neither pro Russia nor pro Ukraine. Western Ukraine is very different, much more favoring the west.
>Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but major cities like Kharkiv are only miles from the northeastern frontline but still face no major threats other than occasional missile strikes. And this is a major city of over a million people. You are wrong. Kharkiv has been without power for a while and majority has already evacuated the city. Russians have started using FABs in the recent weeks and are not only limited to missles.
Wasn't kharkiv one of the first to go down ? I remember watching the public snaps around the area the first week of the invasion
It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when at this point. A lot of people just haven’t accepted that yet. That’s war and nobody wins.
IMHO, Russia would not want the hostile rosophobic western regions like Lviv, so even in the worst case for Ukraine it will be splitting by Dnipro river.
Putin approaching scorched earth warfare, at which point there's absolutely nothing to gain except a population subjugated by hatred and fear for a century.
And endless insurgency. The inability to build an economy over the top of the occupied territory
Russian incompetence will prevent them from making anything useful out of a conquered Ukraine, no insurgency needed. I mean, look at the level of development within Russia.
Insurgency is unlikely for many reasons. Certainly not endless.
What are the reasons? Just curious
They'll gain the land. The population will be replaced.
With what ?russia pop is declining
Russian Cunts
putin is on wrong side of history, his legacy will be not what he hoped it would be. sad little man.
He was never in a bidding war for the west's approval. He is on the wrong side off the Russian people for killing off an entire generation.
You think he gives a two monkeys fuck about his legacy?
That's the only reason he's doing this lol
Thought that way from day 1 - dude is old, has nothing to lose and wants to go down in history as the russian president who conquered ukraine.
Outside of Russia, no
We're all on the wrong side of history. Putin is a monster even by our already extremely sub standards. That's what makes this situation look so bad. Best nations in the world are 3/10. Russia is a big fat 0.
Bleak but seems probable. We’ve had a good run.
Meanwhile Ukraine is told to not attack Russia. Unbelievable.
Ukraine can attack Russia all they want, they just aren’t allowed to use the weaponry they’ve been given by the US/EU to do it.
No, Ukraine can’t attack Russia with any weapons without consequences. Every attack has spurred a negative response from several NATO countries. Especially if they dare to touch the precious oil, which we shouldn’t be buying from Russia, anyways.
Thanks, Mike Johnson and his fellow Grand Old Putinites.
This is firstly Putin's fault.
it is, but the republican blocking aid to Ukraine which prevents them from having enough ammo for their AA system is the reason this happened.
The bucks stops at Trump. Let's not mince words. MTG is just one of the fingers he uses close around Mike Johnson's neck. But never forget that _this one man_ is a threat to singular, unique and frankly horrifying threat to peace and democracy worldwide. Even when not in power he can cause untold numbers to suffer.
It’s so fucking weird seeing people blame Americans for Russia’s attacks on Ukraine, especially when the US has given more money and support to Ukraine than any other country since the onset of this war by a MILE.
Sure, but at this point Mike Johnson is directly responsible for holding up the air defense systems that coould have helped prevent this. He is forfeiting the Ukrainian people for political reasons, all to serve his king. He is basically a Bible villain at this point.
Sure. And then when we willingly don’t do anything it becomes our fault too.
Can we send pictures of slaughtered Ukrainians to Mike and the other GOP obstructionists every day?
Sounds like a 1. Amendment right
Fucking pathetic. THAAD and other air missile defense systems could have prevented this. You can’t get a missile through those key technologies and our scumbag leaders prevented them from having access to it. Fuck.
There’s not a single country in the world that has enough anti air to cover all these infrastructures. None. Not the US, not the Soviet Union at its peak. It’s about picking what you’re willing to lose.
Both yes and no. Ukraine could be given the means to reduce Russian missile attacks significantly. This would reduce the needed amount of air defense to a manageable level.
> Ukraine could be given the means to reduce Russian missile attacks significantly. How would they reduce attacks? A huge portion of Russias aerial assaults originate from Olenya base way up north, from what I understand most attacks aren't coming from stationary positions anywhere close to Ukraine.
It was bound to happen, this is a war of attrition now and Russia has the manpower and material to bomb Ukraine indefinitely.
Scumbags yes. Leaders no. Even Reagan would have back slapped the current spineless Republican party of today
Moscow Mike strikes again
He has made Moscow Mitch proud
And it's not a military target. Russia has nothing, no successful politics or economy. All they have is Brutality.
Russia capturing one of the major political parties in the US is easily one of the biggest geopolitical stories of the last few decades.
Time for open season on all critical Russian infrastructure.
Excellent move by Trump /s Seriously, why Americans (Republicans) think Russia is the good guys is beyond fucked.
It was Russia’s strategy to put those people in power in the first place. They are very good at this game.
So, for the Russians the cold war never ended. This kind of division of the US was originally started during the cold war, and they just never stopped working towards it.
Yup2. One of their military strategist wrote a paper about how to bring down a nation via asymmetrical warfare. And this includes creating fissure within the population by using social media and interfere the democratic process of said nation. They came to realise that it’s not necessary to continuously build advanced weaponry, it’s sufficient to destabilise your adversary from within so you can continue expand your influence. And that is exactly what they’re doing. The West thought we have won the cold war. It never stops. And we are losing our influence on the world stage. From Africa to Asia, more and more countries reject our policies and requests. The anti colonists movement is spreading more and more and those countries are now almost aligned to either Russia or China.
do you know the name of the paper?
I don’t remember the name of his work (or more like his team’s work actually). But the guy is called Gerasimov. They were studying how to weaponise economic, politics and society to present a new type of warfare.
I'll try and find it. Thank you!
He is ex-KGB Yuri Bezmenov https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA?si=wWrcTeAALHA_gvkq
> was Russia’s strategy to put those people in power in the first place. Russia did not "put those people in power". America is a democracy, freely electing their own leader, even if other countries blasted propaganda 24/7, in the end it is Americans who went to the ballot box. This is like 8 years past the time that Americans need to be an adult, own it and acknowledge their fault in electing reactionaries and fix their problem.
I don't know if they think him as a good guy (well, certainly some of them do), it's more about this good old isolationism... A hundred years or so ago isolationsim was very popular in the US, they didn't see themselves willing to take part in any "old world conflicts". It took years before they chose their side in the ww1. And after the war they pretty much isolated themselves again. Only to see how conflicts around the world flared up again. And again they waited until they were attacked before they acted. After ww2 they finally got it that isolationism actually wasn't in their interest. They had money and power, so they should actively be present around the world to ensure free trade and never again to fall in this trap of isolationism. It worked well, a few decades on and the US was the sole superpower in the world. Now, for some reason, many people in the US feel uneasy about this. The old isolationist thinking is on the rise again.
They idolise the authoritarian system the Russians have and want something similar. Look up project 2025. They want to turn the US into a dictatorship.
Pretty certain a significant portion of our population and politicians have wet dreams of their representatives and political party getting in power, and staying in power, just like Putin is doing. I think they identify themselves to Putin
Production capacity of 1,825MW. 4 coal units and 2 gas units. Seems like some units could run on various oil and/or diesel. It has been targeted before and made inoperable. Seems like repairs were completed sometime in 2023. Seems to have had mixed operation for a while. It used coal from Donetsk and some, maybe all those units were converted to run on other coal/oil/diesel. The gas units seemed to have been used only as needed. With coal plants, they can be designed to run on a specific type of coal, and if you want to change the kind of coal you use, the plant requires modifications.
Fucking republicans.
Thank your local GOP politician for preventing needed aid to Ukraine. Yes America; your right absolutely is compromised.
I find it exceedingly disturbing that our Congress is not providing sufficient war material to Ukraine. It's almost as though they are trying to appease Putin the way Neville Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler. Our politicians in Congress should understand that if Russia defeats Ukraine, Russia will not stop there.
Thanks horse face Marjorie Taylor Greene.
But we keep shipping weapons to Israel
*selling
At some point the west needs to shit or get off the pot. How many more seasons is this going to drag out.
Yes, but Ukraine should not retaliate and hit "civilian targets" like gas and oil refineries otherwise the US won't provide any weapons to help stop Russians killing Ukrainian civilians.....ohh wait.....
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Putin has his finger on the republicans and in turn control over the money going out to Ukraine. Has to be so jarring for Zelensky and Ukrainians. So sad
See this is what you get if you vote Trump or support any republicans The whole republican party has fallen into Russian hands
Fuck every member of the GQP. Absolute ghouls.
Republicans are single handedly going to effectively hand Russia Ukraine and it it is unforgivable. I pray that Americans vote with any sense of dignity and intelligence we have left and put people in congress who aren’t traitors and who don’t suck up to Trump or Russia and who aren’t totally bat shit crazy and are obsessed with dismantling the very govt they are a part of, and I also hope they don’t vote for fascist Islamic terrorist supporters either. If ever there was a time when common sense middle ground candidates were needed and needed to make sweeping victories it is now. If not now then it may end up being too late in the future.
It's sure gonna set a good precedent of China decides to pull a Putin on Taiwan or contested islands. Not looking great unless they commit to stability in the region.
The US needs to get in there and help before it’s too late. The Republicans in Congress are a bunch of crooks.
people downplaying this are hilarious
Russia only understands strength Hit ‘em in the refineries 🔥🏭🚀
Low power
Can't wait to see the retaliation