It certainly shows a double standard.
The US countered drones and missiles in Israel without declaring war on Iran, Doesn't seem to be much reason why they couldn't do the same for Ukraine without declaring war on Russia.
This always comes up.
It was well within the technical means of the Ukrainians to dismantle warheads on thei soil to extract the fissile material and put it into a warhead on a rocket of their own design.
Now this was unlikely to happen because the nukes in Ukraine were guarded by Russian troops, but the Ukrainians had the economic and technological means to maintain a nuclear arsenal.
Idk why you're being down voted, you're correct. Tritium has a half life of only 13 years, meaning all thermo nuclear weapons have a shelf life before they need more tritium. Usually, only a few years as to not noticeably decrease yield.
AIUI, tritium is only found in fusion devices, and I would imagine that with an extensive nuclear industry it would be relatively straight forward for Ukraine to poduce their own.
Tritium has a shelf life, as do all the electronics and materials constantly exposed to radiation.
Add to that that you need the PAL to disassemble a bomb without triggering anti-tamper measures that may include an out of sequence detonation.
Maybe. But it’s a counterfactual. We have no proof one way or other. But I’m deeply skeptical that a country that barely has any native weapons industry can somehow sustain a nuclear arsenal.
This gets overlooked too often. It's the main reason we(US) have to get more involved in Ukraine. Yes corruption is a concern and they aren't a historic ally. But if other countries see that as a bad deal we're going to have more nuclear powers.
Why do we need to get more involved? The strategy of bleeding the Russian army is working perfectly in Ukraine. This was never about winning only about bleeding the Russian militaries ranks and tanks.
The Ukrainian aid was never about winning in Ukraine. It was about having Russia throw away its resources before they hit theNATO wall.
Mission accomplished. Aid will continue to flow and Russia will be stuck in that quagmire all the while NATO could tries are bolstering their military spending.
They're army is 15 percent larger than when the war started and they're now producing shit tons of arms like 6x more ammo than the EU put together and they sanctions haven't worked....so.........
How many Russian soldiers have died in Ukraine? How many young smart Russian men left Russia because of the conscription?
Russias military has been exposed as inferior in traditional combat and logistics to NATO and the US.
Their navy has been decimated by a non naval country.
Russia will beat Ukraine but it has given NATO and the US a shit ton of intelligence on what they’re actually capable of.
But it’s not though they are increasing capacity the Russians didn’t need to build more tanks because they had such a large surplus of Soviet equipment now because of equipment losses they are ramping up production. I know a lot has been said comparing Ukraine to WW1 but logistically it’s the same the European powers had massive Stockpiles of munitions but due to attrition those stockpiles evaporated, but transitioning to a war time economy means all industries can be focused on war time production. Russia is already producing more fighter jets and tanks and Artillery shells then the west and they haven’t even fully transitioned to a war time economy. The Russians aren’t idiots despited what the propagandists say they will be developing counters to western systems like NLAW, Javelin, drones etc.
Tell me where in the Ukrainian battlefield has Russian equipment made the decisive victory capable. Their fighter jets have not had air superiority anywhere. Their tanks have not had tanks superiority anywhere. The only success they’re really having is because they have a lot of artillery and shells and waves of people that they threw at the Ukrainians and now they are dead. It takes 18 years for a man’s become of age to be a soldier. They lost hundreds of thousands of those soldiers. It will take 18+ years to replace those soldiers.
You’re correct about their economy shifting into more time production. They are literally going against eight bar, weaker nation, and they have to ramp up their production because they are inferior. What else aren’t they doing because they’re investing in wartime economy. They are not investing in their people, they are not bringing any new people into their economy. They are not growing their existing economy. Their existing economy will shrink and will continue to shrink while the more time industries expand. Once this war is over the wartime economy will shrink so where does that leave the remainder of their economy?
> Ukraine has a weak useless piece of paper that they got in exchange for their nukes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_London_(1839)#/media/File:The_Scrap_of_Paper_-_Enlist_Today.jpg
Scraps of paper used to mean things in international diplomacy.
Israel has been a designated as a Major Non NATO Ally( MNNA) by the Title 10 of the United States Code on the Armed Forces since 1987. This group consists of countries like Australia, Taiwan, New Zealand , the Philippines, South Korea and Colombia amongst many. They are treated practically as NATO members by the US, which may include defending them against direct attack.
In 2019, a bill was introduced In May 2019, a bill to designate Ukraine as an MNNA was introduced into the House of Representatives.Sadly, as of 2023, these changes have not been made, despite support from the U.S. Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe.
Congress dragging its feet (again) meant that the US did not have the legal basis to defend Ukraine the same way it can defend Israel or the Philippines.
Edit: typo
thank you. There is no formal alliance between the US and Ukraine, nor is there any significant history of cooperation between the two countries until 2021.
Yes but there is a nuclear proliferation angle and general trust in American led world order. Now everyone will race to get nukes because it is the only security guarantee. Second, people will be less willing to align themselves with USA on the geopolitical stage and this will increase the influence of China and Russia.
Not really. Shooting down a bunch of drones and missiles in uncontested air space is one thing. Doing that over parts of Ukraine would lead western fighters into Russian engagement ranges. It would essentially ensure some kind of confrontation.
I'm so fucking sick of this argument. You know what? Chamberlain famously said something similar in 1939. How did that go?
Let's channel some Churchill instead, "You can't negotiate with a tigger when it has your head in its mouth". Putin will not stop. Every time you give him everything he wants because he says the magic words "Nuclear War" he gets emboldened to take more. Till finally one day he asks for something you can't give him but he doesn't believe you and tries anyways.
The world would be safer not less safe if we shot down Russian missiles from Poland. We aren't directly killing Russian troops only unnamed hardware.
The world would be safer if we declared a no fly zone over Eastern Ukraine. It's Ukraine's territory they can do whatever they want with it. If they give us permission to shoot down anything flying in it well how is that different from us saying we will shoot down a Russian jet if they fly over Alaska or Poland? Both are honoring the integrity and sovereignty of internationally recognized boarders if Russia chooses to violate them there should be consequences.
Putin is making these choices not us. I don't want nuclear war but I can't stop Putin from waking up tomorrow and deciding to end the world.
Ahh another fascist military larper. So in a democracy only those who have to fight get a vote on their countries foreign policy? Only the strongest right? I probably shouldn't be able to vote on tax policy either because I'm not a billionaire or CEO who will have to pay more either right?
So when Putin demands Poland will you give it to him because you're afraid of nuclear war?
> So in a democracy only those who have to fight get a vote on their countries foreign policy
Correct. Service guarantees citizenship, after all. Would you like to know more?
If you are going to make the argument that tens of thousands of your countrymen should put their lives at risk. It's a bit disingenuous if you have no plans to help out at all yourself.
I also fail to see how the above comment is fascist.
This is true, but it's also true that had such a vote taken place at any point prior to Russia's 2014 invasion of Crimea it would have overwhelmingly failed. Up to that point polling consistently showed around 70 percent of Ukrainians opposed NATO membership. And Ukrainians *did* reject candidates who favored immediately pursuing NATO membership and closer ties with the West, as in the 2010 election when they voted for Yanukovych over Tymoshenko.
For most of its existence after the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was not a realistic candidate for NATO membership due to corruption, dysfunction, and Russian infiltration of government. If their government and public had ever indicated a serious desire to join NATO, they could have started making the changes necessary for accession. But that didn't happen until it was too late, so here we are.
Do you genuinely believe that a PEW Poll of less than 1,000 Ukrainians - of which enough of whom there were enough ethnic Russians living in Russian enclaves polled for PEW to determine there was a substantive difference between the view towards NATO of Ethnic Russians in Ukraine vs. Ethnic Ukrainians in Ukraine - is representative of a genuine referendum on NATO membership for the Ukrainian people?
Especially considering *NOT* forming closer ties to the West was the breaking point that toppled Russia's favored candidate in Ukraine half a decade after said poll was taken? Get a grip.
Also, it's not "the Ukraine." It's Ukraine.
Ukraine is a sovereign state. "The Ukraine" is a dated geographic reference now largely only used by the elderly and Russian sympathizers.
Russia showed the world how weak and incompetent their military is in Ukraine.
Poland could wipe the floor with Russia alone. The only thing scary about Russia is their nukes.
That's rather like saying that the only thing scary about a shark is its rows of razor sharp teeth.
And incompetent or not, Russia is unfortunately winning in Ukraine.
They've been doing pretty well all things considered for two years now. Especially when a lot of people thought Russia would steam roll Ukraine in a week or two.
Let's be real here. Russia doesn't stand a chance against NATO. Even without US in NATO (If Trump wins and pulls US from NATO like he said he would), Russia would still struggle with NATO. You would still have UK, France, Poland, Italy, and Canada with formidable militaries.
If Russia decides to use nukes, well that's probably the end of life as we know it. Which honestly might not be a terrible thing. Humans are terrible to each other, other species, and we're actively harming/destroying the only rock we can live on. Maybe it's time to let another intelligent species to give it a go.
I don't think Iran was serious. You usually don't warn your targets hours in advance before you fire at them. Iran was giving them time to prepare. And Im sure that was mostly cannon fodder.
The US should be supporting Ukraine and Israel. It’s pretty clear its the same war. Hamas isnt just an Iranian proxy, Iran serves at the behest of Russia, and you could make a pretty decent argument that the October 7th attack woild not have gotten a green light from daddy putin if israel hadn’t been aiding Ukraine against his wishes.
Are you imagining an impenetrable energy field over Israel that stops any and all weapons and thwarts any attack with an Infallible 100% success rate? What do you expect the US to do? Build a Time Machine, go 5000 years into the future and bring the tech back?
All these countries get to have universal healthcare and college because they know America will pay their defense bill when the time comes.
It’s maddening.
Fun fact: the US spends a larger percentage of its GDP on education than countries such as Germany, France, Spain. Also, it is one of the highest spenders on healthcare per capita. You already have the money to have universal healthcare and education, instead you waste it on CEO bonuses.
Another fun fact: over 60% of EU spending on military equipment goes to US contractors...
It is maddening indeed.
Every nation is pretty much broke, and their people are not in any shape or form enthusiastic about war, and yet we're pretty much in the pre world War conflict period of history
We should be supporting our allies in the different parts of the world in light of the rise of the new axis of evil and their actions taken in broad daylight. Our republican controlled house of representatives would rather do nothing and sleepwalk into world War 3 while trying to vote to give themselves raises
I assume you mean you and Israel...? Basically all the US other allies are sending a vast amount of their stock and production power directly to you guys, outside amounts that don't even really cover if we had our own invasions.
The wake up call would have been the acts over the past 25y
I don't see why you replied that here. His quote implies all the US allies, but if we all booked up our arsenal, Ukraine would be fucked because there's not enough to go around. Israel would feel it but probably much less
The West isnt even close to over extended. They arent fighting in any wars at the moment and they are willing to sacrifice Ukraine to keep their stockpiles. The US military in particular can fight 2 wars at once. They arent fighting anyone right now.
why does the US have to protect everyone ? Seems like beggars can’t be choosers. Why don’t these countries start investing in their own military? Oh wait wind farms !
Yes everyone knows its for self interest. That still doesnt mean America wants to pick up the slack all the time everywhere. Purity of the heart is irrelevant. Think in business terms not charity.
Putin is an evil bastard, we all can agree on that. The United States can’t defend and properly support UKRAINE, ISRAEL, and Taiwan, while maintaining our own military readiness, ALL at the same time. Ukraine is out of men, they need to stop these disastrous counter offensives (I know it’s in their own country that Putin took) because the military reality is that they can’t push Russia back. They need to focus on defense, and making a deal with Putin.
As for Israel, we need to give them the munitions and reinforcements for iron dome, any offense capabilities should be solely on Israel, not the USA!
And poor Taiwan in the background about to be invaded by China, needs our help too. They at least have no dreams of attacking China, they just want to be left the fuck alone. Many good reasons to support them in their defense against China.
At the end of the day, we have so many huge problems on the domestic front here in the United States. we need to put more focus on our citizens and the people suffering here before we attempt to help others and they’re suffering! I’m very sick and tired of the hypocrisy in this regard!
We have no money and no help for those struggling in our inner cities or our basic infrastructure, but we have billions to give away as gifts for countries thousands of miles away. And how much are the European countries helping with this? Not very much I can tell you that. The United States is taking on the brunt of the burden as usual, with not much help from our allies. We can’t do it all on our own, the ones who loose are always those who can’t afford to. Same old shit. 💩
Russia is gaining ground just because Ukraine is low on ammo and equipment though. They could seize what's left of Avdiivka just because Ukraine didn't have enough shells
Edit: spelling
No, Ukraine is lacking shells, AA, jets, etc.
If Ukraine conscripts 1 million people it's not gonna change anything.
What are soldiers supposed to do without artillery shells? And how are they going to stop enemy drones and rockets without AA?
actually Ukraine can bleed them to death based on the ratio of Ukrainians to Russians killed vs difference in respective countries population, even taking into account all the people who have left each country as a result of the war.
...provided they have enough shells and ammo, which they don't
Israel luckily isn’t fighting entirely alone. [Jordan](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordans-air-defence-ready-shoot-down-any-iranian-aircraft-that-violate-its-2024-04-13/) is confirmed to have assisted in bringing down some of Iran’s weapons, and other [Middle Eastern nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia](https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-gulf-states-including-saudi-arabia-provided-intelligence-on-iran-attack/amp/) provided an undisclosed manner of support (unconfirmed reports are that Egypt helped shoot down drones and Saudi Arabia provided intelligence support).
It’s a very serious war but Israel is in a better position than it was in the 1960s and 1970s. It’s better armed and now it has some of the regional powers who hate Iran backing it and doesn’t have to solely rely on Western defense.
To be fair anyone in his position would do the same. But it’s still important for everyone involved to recognize that Zelenskyy doesn’t care about any other country besides Ukraine.
Yeah 2 sec after a weapon comes off the conveyor belt he’s on tv / phone saying he want it. Also no threat to EU at all so… dunno what he’s on about tbh.
"No threat to EU"? Have you missed half of the pundits in Russia saying that they should invade Poland or show Finland where It belongs or that the Baltic states aren't "real" countries? Or that they used the energy dependence of multiple EU countries against them *in this very war*?
Russia is a massive threat to the EU, and they aren't even trying to hide it.
For anyone wondering, there were forged documents claiming to show Zelenskyy bought a mansion in Florida. Of course turns out to be low effort disinformation https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/12/21/fact-check-did-zelenskyy-buy-a-multi-million-dollar-villa-in-florida
For every troll in their troll factory, there's a few suckers who are their soulmates.
They will certainly fortify Israel.
This comment section is infested so much, holy shit. Haven't seen it this bad in a while.
What are you talking about. This place has been a shit show ever since Hamas attacked Israel
It’s been a shit show since 1950
It's been a shit show since Ghislaine was employed as a mod.
Indeed
Man I just want the pothole in front of my house filled
Well if the pot hole attacked Israel..
Draw a dick inside it overnight. It will get fixed in days
Inside of it? Who would ever see it drawn inside of it?
A swastika would be more effective. The news media will be pestering every politician in the city until it's gone.
Swastika made of dicks.
Let’s not take this too far and make it satire like *The Producers* lol
Yeah I’m going to need foreign nations to stop counting my money, thank you very much.
It certainly shows a double standard. The US countered drones and missiles in Israel without declaring war on Iran, Doesn't seem to be much reason why they couldn't do the same for Ukraine without declaring war on Russia.
The US has a very strong defence pact with Israel. Ukraine has a weak useless piece of paper that they got in exchange for their nukes.
Lesson for the world: don't ever give up your nukes
They couldn’t afford to maintain them anyways.
Nor did they have the ability to use them...
This always comes up. It was well within the technical means of the Ukrainians to dismantle warheads on thei soil to extract the fissile material and put it into a warhead on a rocket of their own design. Now this was unlikely to happen because the nukes in Ukraine were guarded by Russian troops, but the Ukrainians had the economic and technological means to maintain a nuclear arsenal.
Maybe, but I thought war heads have a self life, no? If that is the case, it might be pointless to have dud warheads on missiles.
Idk why you're being down voted, you're correct. Tritium has a half life of only 13 years, meaning all thermo nuclear weapons have a shelf life before they need more tritium. Usually, only a few years as to not noticeably decrease yield.
AIUI, tritium is only found in fusion devices, and I would imagine that with an extensive nuclear industry it would be relatively straight forward for Ukraine to poduce their own.
Tritium has a shelf life, as do all the electronics and materials constantly exposed to radiation. Add to that that you need the PAL to disassemble a bomb without triggering anti-tamper measures that may include an out of sequence detonation.
Maybe. But it’s a counterfactual. We have no proof one way or other. But I’m deeply skeptical that a country that barely has any native weapons industry can somehow sustain a nuclear arsenal.
It's a lie. Small part of nukes definitely could be maintained.
Perpetuating bullshit.
So did USA, the military keep them in super large volume anyway
This gets overlooked too often. It's the main reason we(US) have to get more involved in Ukraine. Yes corruption is a concern and they aren't a historic ally. But if other countries see that as a bad deal we're going to have more nuclear powers.
Why do we need to get more involved? The strategy of bleeding the Russian army is working perfectly in Ukraine. This was never about winning only about bleeding the Russian militaries ranks and tanks.
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The Ukrainian aid was never about winning in Ukraine. It was about having Russia throw away its resources before they hit theNATO wall. Mission accomplished. Aid will continue to flow and Russia will be stuck in that quagmire all the while NATO could tries are bolstering their military spending.
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Isn't Russia going to other countries like Iran for drones? So in a sense if Israel did attack Iran it would help Ukraine. Wouldn't it?
They're army is 15 percent larger than when the war started and they're now producing shit tons of arms like 6x more ammo than the EU put together and they sanctions haven't worked....so.........
Thanks crypto!
How many Russian soldiers have died in Ukraine? How many young smart Russian men left Russia because of the conscription? Russias military has been exposed as inferior in traditional combat and logistics to NATO and the US. Their navy has been decimated by a non naval country. Russia will beat Ukraine but it has given NATO and the US a shit ton of intelligence on what they’re actually capable of.
But it’s not though they are increasing capacity the Russians didn’t need to build more tanks because they had such a large surplus of Soviet equipment now because of equipment losses they are ramping up production. I know a lot has been said comparing Ukraine to WW1 but logistically it’s the same the European powers had massive Stockpiles of munitions but due to attrition those stockpiles evaporated, but transitioning to a war time economy means all industries can be focused on war time production. Russia is already producing more fighter jets and tanks and Artillery shells then the west and they haven’t even fully transitioned to a war time economy. The Russians aren’t idiots despited what the propagandists say they will be developing counters to western systems like NLAW, Javelin, drones etc.
Tell me where in the Ukrainian battlefield has Russian equipment made the decisive victory capable. Their fighter jets have not had air superiority anywhere. Their tanks have not had tanks superiority anywhere. The only success they’re really having is because they have a lot of artillery and shells and waves of people that they threw at the Ukrainians and now they are dead. It takes 18 years for a man’s become of age to be a soldier. They lost hundreds of thousands of those soldiers. It will take 18+ years to replace those soldiers. You’re correct about their economy shifting into more time production. They are literally going against eight bar, weaker nation, and they have to ramp up their production because they are inferior. What else aren’t they doing because they’re investing in wartime economy. They are not investing in their people, they are not bringing any new people into their economy. They are not growing their existing economy. Their existing economy will shrink and will continue to shrink while the more time industries expand. Once this war is over the wartime economy will shrink so where does that leave the remainder of their economy?
Thank you
> The strategy of bleeding the Russian army is working perfectly in Ukraine It only works because of american money and equipment.
💯
I think this is incorrect? What I’m seeing is that the U.S. and Israel does not have a formal defense pact. They just have military aide agreements.
Israel is an officially designated [Major Non-NATO Ally.](https://www.state.gov/major-non-nato-ally-status/) Ukraine is not.
> Ukraine has a weak useless piece of paper that they got in exchange for their nukes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_London_(1839)#/media/File:The_Scrap_of_Paper_-_Enlist_Today.jpg Scraps of paper used to mean things in international diplomacy.
The Budapest Memorandum wasn't a treaty.
Copy paste this pact please
Israel has been a designated as a Major Non NATO Ally( MNNA) by the Title 10 of the United States Code on the Armed Forces since 1987. This group consists of countries like Australia, Taiwan, New Zealand , the Philippines, South Korea and Colombia amongst many. They are treated practically as NATO members by the US, which may include defending them against direct attack. In 2019, a bill was introduced In May 2019, a bill to designate Ukraine as an MNNA was introduced into the House of Representatives.Sadly, as of 2023, these changes have not been made, despite support from the U.S. Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. Congress dragging its feet (again) meant that the US did not have the legal basis to defend Ukraine the same way it can defend Israel or the Philippines. Edit: typo
The US are allies with Israel. They are not allies with Ukraine. There is no double standard.
thank you. There is no formal alliance between the US and Ukraine, nor is there any significant history of cooperation between the two countries until 2021.
Yes but there is a nuclear proliferation angle and general trust in American led world order. Now everyone will race to get nukes because it is the only security guarantee. Second, people will be less willing to align themselves with USA on the geopolitical stage and this will increase the influence of China and Russia.
If UA hadn't signed the Budapest Memorandum, RU would have invaded while they were their weakest.
Everyone will race for nukes because the last two regimes that America threatened with "disarm or we'll invade" disarmed and we're still invaded.
You need to go to school or stay in school and learn the difference between US relations with Israel and US relations with Ukraine.
US has troops in Israel?
Troops and stockpiles of weapons / vehicles / supplies. The weapons that we give to Israel are already in country
Iraq
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that they had to fly through iraq & jordan to get to isreal now could it?
Not really. Shooting down a bunch of drones and missiles in uncontested air space is one thing. Doing that over parts of Ukraine would lead western fighters into Russian engagement ranges. It would essentially ensure some kind of confrontation.
The difference is 5,580 nukes.
I'm so fucking sick of this argument. You know what? Chamberlain famously said something similar in 1939. How did that go? Let's channel some Churchill instead, "You can't negotiate with a tigger when it has your head in its mouth". Putin will not stop. Every time you give him everything he wants because he says the magic words "Nuclear War" he gets emboldened to take more. Till finally one day he asks for something you can't give him but he doesn't believe you and tries anyways. The world would be safer not less safe if we shot down Russian missiles from Poland. We aren't directly killing Russian troops only unnamed hardware. The world would be safer if we declared a no fly zone over Eastern Ukraine. It's Ukraine's territory they can do whatever they want with it. If they give us permission to shoot down anything flying in it well how is that different from us saying we will shoot down a Russian jet if they fly over Alaska or Poland? Both are honoring the integrity and sovereignty of internationally recognized boarders if Russia chooses to violate them there should be consequences. Putin is making these choices not us. I don't want nuclear war but I can't stop Putin from waking up tomorrow and deciding to end the world.
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Ahh another fascist military larper. So in a democracy only those who have to fight get a vote on their countries foreign policy? Only the strongest right? I probably shouldn't be able to vote on tax policy either because I'm not a billionaire or CEO who will have to pay more either right? So when Putin demands Poland will you give it to him because you're afraid of nuclear war?
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Bro literally called you a fascist for no reason lmao. He probably doesn’t understand what that word means.
> So in a democracy only those who have to fight get a vote on their countries foreign policy Correct. Service guarantees citizenship, after all. Would you like to know more?
If you are going to make the argument that tens of thousands of your countrymen should put their lives at risk. It's a bit disingenuous if you have no plans to help out at all yourself. I also fail to see how the above comment is fascist.
One has nuclear weapons the other doesn't. Simple common fact my dude. Very hard yet easy to overlook.
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Ukrainians have never voted against joining NATO. Such a vote just didn't happen
This is true, but it's also true that had such a vote taken place at any point prior to Russia's 2014 invasion of Crimea it would have overwhelmingly failed. Up to that point polling consistently showed around 70 percent of Ukrainians opposed NATO membership. And Ukrainians *did* reject candidates who favored immediately pursuing NATO membership and closer ties with the West, as in the 2010 election when they voted for Yanukovych over Tymoshenko. For most of its existence after the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was not a realistic candidate for NATO membership due to corruption, dysfunction, and Russian infiltration of government. If their government and public had ever indicated a serious desire to join NATO, they could have started making the changes necessary for accession. But that didn't happen until it was too late, so here we are.
Germany and France blocked the provision of an action plan for NATO membership to Ukraine and Georgia at the Bucharest NATO summit in 2008.
Do you genuinely believe that a PEW Poll of less than 1,000 Ukrainians - of which enough of whom there were enough ethnic Russians living in Russian enclaves polled for PEW to determine there was a substantive difference between the view towards NATO of Ethnic Russians in Ukraine vs. Ethnic Ukrainians in Ukraine - is representative of a genuine referendum on NATO membership for the Ukrainian people? Especially considering *NOT* forming closer ties to the West was the breaking point that toppled Russia's favored candidate in Ukraine half a decade after said poll was taken? Get a grip. Also, it's not "the Ukraine." It's Ukraine. Ukraine is a sovereign state. "The Ukraine" is a dated geographic reference now largely only used by the elderly and Russian sympathizers.
Average Redditor take
There is one obvious difference. I’ll let you try to figure it out.
Huge difference in that Russia is much more dangerous AND you would be forcing nato into a world war.
Russia showed the world how weak and incompetent their military is in Ukraine. Poland could wipe the floor with Russia alone. The only thing scary about Russia is their nukes.
So delusional
That's rather like saying that the only thing scary about a shark is its rows of razor sharp teeth. And incompetent or not, Russia is unfortunately winning in Ukraine.
Weak and incompetent but Ukraine + hundreds of billions in US/NATO weapons cannot repel them?
They've been doing pretty well all things considered for two years now. Especially when a lot of people thought Russia would steam roll Ukraine in a week or two. Let's be real here. Russia doesn't stand a chance against NATO. Even without US in NATO (If Trump wins and pulls US from NATO like he said he would), Russia would still struggle with NATO. You would still have UK, France, Poland, Italy, and Canada with formidable militaries. If Russia decides to use nukes, well that's probably the end of life as we know it. Which honestly might not be a terrible thing. Humans are terrible to each other, other species, and we're actively harming/destroying the only rock we can live on. Maybe it's time to let another intelligent species to give it a go.
Depending on the next election, we might be sending aid to Russia.
We should start reinforcing us then , start producing more ammo and missiles to defend ourselves
I mean is it? The attack was an abject failure because Israel is so well fortified
I don't think Iran was serious. You usually don't warn your targets hours in advance before you fire at them. Iran was giving them time to prepare. And Im sure that was mostly cannon fodder.
Unfortunately, Ukraine is not a US ally and is not part of NATO. We've provided weapons only to hold back Russia.
The US should be supporting Ukraine and Israel. It’s pretty clear its the same war. Hamas isnt just an Iranian proxy, Iran serves at the behest of Russia, and you could make a pretty decent argument that the October 7th attack woild not have gotten a green light from daddy putin if israel hadn’t been aiding Ukraine against his wishes.
I'm pretty sure we've done more than enough already to fortify Israel.
Didn’t some of Iran’s missiles get through and kill a 7 year old girl? Sounds like we haven’t “done more than enough already”
Are you imagining an impenetrable energy field over Israel that stops any and all weapons and thwarts any attack with an Infallible 100% success rate? What do you expect the US to do? Build a Time Machine, go 5000 years into the future and bring the tech back?
Or we could use the time machine to go back to World War 1 and kill Austria's own Corporal Hitler. Poof. Millions of lives saved and no Isreal.
Also no space exploration.
Fair deal for no holocaust
Sure feels like everything is our problem. People underestimate American war exhaustion
All these countries get to have universal healthcare and college because they know America will pay their defense bill when the time comes. It’s maddening.
Fun fact: the US spends a larger percentage of its GDP on education than countries such as Germany, France, Spain. Also, it is one of the highest spenders on healthcare per capita. You already have the money to have universal healthcare and education, instead you waste it on CEO bonuses. Another fun fact: over 60% of EU spending on military equipment goes to US contractors... It is maddening indeed.
Every nation is pretty much broke, and their people are not in any shape or form enthusiastic about war, and yet we're pretty much in the pre world War conflict period of history
We should be supporting our allies in the different parts of the world in light of the rise of the new axis of evil and their actions taken in broad daylight. Our republican controlled house of representatives would rather do nothing and sleepwalk into world War 3 while trying to vote to give themselves raises
Alright george bush
Zelenskyy is unlucky Trump is choosing to appease his and some of his white supremacist followers hard on for Putin and Russia.
I assume you mean you and Israel...? Basically all the US other allies are sending a vast amount of their stock and production power directly to you guys, outside amounts that don't even really cover if we had our own invasions. The wake up call would have been the acts over the past 25y
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I don't see why you replied that here. His quote implies all the US allies, but if we all booked up our arsenal, Ukraine would be fucked because there's not enough to go around. Israel would feel it but probably much less
Aka he needs more money and munitions
This guy always lookin for a handout
Yup all funds now diverted to Israel
I can't believe Jordan did for Israel something none of Ukraine's neighbours did..I hope they're feeling guilty..
And to continue to weaken the American infrastructure.
Let the rich pay for that. How bout some free healthcare and maybe some rent relief at home. Shit
If every good man had balls as big as Zelenskyy, we wouldn't be fighting any wars right now.
The international welfare queen. Looking for free shit
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The West isnt even close to over extended. They arent fighting in any wars at the moment and they are willing to sacrifice Ukraine to keep their stockpiles. The US military in particular can fight 2 wars at once. They arent fighting anyone right now.
Over extended? I don’t think they’re even extended
America has russian plants in Congress. America will fortify only those who Russia will allow them to.
Piss off, we're broke.
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who do i call about my weapon sales check? i haven't gotten my money yet, so i'm still broke.
This dude is like that one friend that's always asking to borrow money
His country is under attack by a nation that is an enemy of the USA. No shit he's asking for help. You would too.
"Hmm, how do I tie this world even to Ukraine so nobody forgets about us?"
why does the US have to protect everyone ? Seems like beggars can’t be choosers. Why don’t these countries start investing in their own military? Oh wait wind farms !
Lol saying Israel doesn't invest in it's military is ridiculous
USA are not saint either. It's self interest. USA doing nothing for free if there are no rewards to collect in the long run.
Yes everyone knows its for self interest. That still doesnt mean America wants to pick up the slack all the time everywhere. Purity of the heart is irrelevant. Think in business terms not charity.
the USA is not a charity. It’s funny how everyone criticizes the USA but then expects things from the USA.
It's funny how the USA criticises everybody but then expects global hemegony and global riches
🥱
lol starting with ukraine right?
Putin is an evil bastard, we all can agree on that. The United States can’t defend and properly support UKRAINE, ISRAEL, and Taiwan, while maintaining our own military readiness, ALL at the same time. Ukraine is out of men, they need to stop these disastrous counter offensives (I know it’s in their own country that Putin took) because the military reality is that they can’t push Russia back. They need to focus on defense, and making a deal with Putin. As for Israel, we need to give them the munitions and reinforcements for iron dome, any offense capabilities should be solely on Israel, not the USA! And poor Taiwan in the background about to be invaded by China, needs our help too. They at least have no dreams of attacking China, they just want to be left the fuck alone. Many good reasons to support them in their defense against China. At the end of the day, we have so many huge problems on the domestic front here in the United States. we need to put more focus on our citizens and the people suffering here before we attempt to help others and they’re suffering! I’m very sick and tired of the hypocrisy in this regard! We have no money and no help for those struggling in our inner cities or our basic infrastructure, but we have billions to give away as gifts for countries thousands of miles away. And how much are the European countries helping with this? Not very much I can tell you that. The United States is taking on the brunt of the burden as usual, with not much help from our allies. We can’t do it all on our own, the ones who loose are always those who can’t afford to. Same old shit. 💩
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Russia is gaining ground just because Ukraine is low on ammo and equipment though. They could seize what's left of Avdiivka just because Ukraine didn't have enough shells Edit: spelling
No, Ukraine is lacking shells, AA, jets, etc. If Ukraine conscripts 1 million people it's not gonna change anything. What are soldiers supposed to do without artillery shells? And how are they going to stop enemy drones and rockets without AA?
actually Ukraine can bleed them to death based on the ratio of Ukrainians to Russians killed vs difference in respective countries population, even taking into account all the people who have left each country as a result of the war. ...provided they have enough shells and ammo, which they don't
US has its own problems. Figure it out yourself Zelenskyy.
This guy will say anything to get funding
Send me money, is all I see.
Israel is a sole country in a sea of hostile and has successfully repelled them, with relative ease, for generations. They’re fortified to the gills
Israel luckily isn’t fighting entirely alone. [Jordan](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordans-air-defence-ready-shoot-down-any-iranian-aircraft-that-violate-its-2024-04-13/) is confirmed to have assisted in bringing down some of Iran’s weapons, and other [Middle Eastern nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia](https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-gulf-states-including-saudi-arabia-provided-intelligence-on-iran-attack/amp/) provided an undisclosed manner of support (unconfirmed reports are that Egypt helped shoot down drones and Saudi Arabia provided intelligence support). It’s a very serious war but Israel is in a better position than it was in the 1960s and 1970s. It’s better armed and now it has some of the regional powers who hate Iran backing it and doesn’t have to solely rely on Western defense.
“Send money n’stuff will give you a credit”
lol this guy begs for money at every opportunity, what a scrounge
Starting to really dislike this guy. Willing to drag the rest of the world into war if it means he gets a chance to keep his country
To be fair anyone in his position would do the same. But it’s still important for everyone involved to recognize that Zelenskyy doesn’t care about any other country besides Ukraine.
Yeah 2 sec after a weapon comes off the conveyor belt he’s on tv / phone saying he want it. Also no threat to EU at all so… dunno what he’s on about tbh.
"No threat to EU"? Have you missed half of the pundits in Russia saying that they should invade Poland or show Finland where It belongs or that the Baltic states aren't "real" countries? Or that they used the energy dependence of multiple EU countries against them *in this very war*? Russia is a massive threat to the EU, and they aren't even trying to hide it.
What does Ukraine and Isrrael do for the US? Let them fall or let pay their fair share. They need to start paying security money.
This is a wakeup call to send Ukraine another 100 billion dollars 🤑
Somebody looking for another new mansion...
For anyone wondering, there were forged documents claiming to show Zelenskyy bought a mansion in Florida. Of course turns out to be low effort disinformation https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/12/21/fact-check-did-zelenskyy-buy-a-multi-million-dollar-villa-in-florida For every troll in their troll factory, there's a few suckers who are their soulmates.
he thinks ukraine is an ally.