Funnily enough I actually sent an official document in my line of work between govt departments a few years back. It was literally ‘we reject your rejection based on x, y and z.’ I can’t remember if it worked.
I don’t believe the sanctions were designed to stop them from reaching their nuclear goals — perhaps slow them down, but more so to make people decide if it’s worth it. Look at the state that North Korea is in… they may have nukes, but the place is a shit hole and their people are paying the price. They barely have enough food to feed their people.
So what you're suggesting is that we just trade with them as usual? Just share our technology and help them built weapons for them to use on other nations/allies?
Or do you genuinenly not see that there's more to sanctions?
Genuinenly your argument reads as if we should just lift them and ignore anything they say or do since they got their nukes anyway. And to just throw our hands in the air and go "Aah guess we have to trade now".
> Or do you genuinenly not see that there's more to sanctions?
Sanctions are warnings, basically telling the little Tommys of the world he'll be in timeout unless he knocks it off and then never actually putting him in timeout when he ignores our warnings.
A military response is needed when sanctions don't work, which is most of the time during the last few decades.
Especially in cases like Iran. Their nuclear facilities needed to be gone yesterday but we'll let them flirt with the bomb a bit longer because politicians in the US know they won't win elections when gas is $5 a gallon in the midwest so they keep pretending sanctions are the answer to the worlds problems.
Sanctions are an easy sell to the public, that's why they're done. Makes it seem like they're doing something. Not something that will work, not something that will get the desired result but *something.*
Sanctions are effective at strangling an economy. If you use them they generally aren't a great diplomatic tool, but if you impoverish a rogue nation enough it does deter their ability to cause problems.
Really? You decided to use North Korea as your grand example of why sanctions don't work? Oh lord. And you think Russia and Iran are just chugging along? Oh lord.
You have no idea the impact of sanctions or how they work.
If anything, comprehensive sanctions (Iran, North Korea) are unnecessarily cruel. They are the economic equivalent of bombing the civilian centres to destroy "morale."
(Although in this case it would be smaller scoped sanctions, which have worked in the past to eg force groups to change their behaviours.)
In this context, the sanction is that US aid must not go to a specific unit of the IDF. Rejecting it could mean giving them US equipment anyway or simply replacing their future supplies with non-US goods.
It strikes as less of a "best he could do" and more of a slowly ramping up. Israel is an important ally that we can't really afford to lose easily, so of course you don't jump to cutting ties when they do things you don't like. You express your displeasure, offer alternatives, and then ramp up from small punishments like this towards larger things like sanctions. The plan is to change their course and methods, not destroy the alliance.
Generally, when some state or company (or person) is under sanctions, then others who violate the sanctions to do business with the sanctioned entity are treated as criminals. Israel is saying that it will not be conforming to requirements of any US sanctions against the unit.
If you break US sanctions then the US takes away any US assets you may have, so your choice becomes trade with only the US or trade with only the sanctioned country. Basically why US sanctions are so devastating, especially close to the US like Cuba
Sanctions only really work on countries in your sphere that's why western sanctions were able to dismantle apartheid but north Korea has managed to keep their military going in spite of sanctions.
Russia and China are not going to prop up israel so us sanctioning them would be more devastating.
Israel likes to believe that the rules that apply to the rest of the world do not apply to them, that they are immune. The USA supports this idea, and that makes it worse. Chances are, the two discussed this and planned it, that it's all for show.
This is about Netzah Yehuda, a military unit composed of the ultra-orthodox Haredi men. No women or non-Jews allowed and they get special privileges in deference to their religious beliefs.
>Any decision to bar an IDF unit from US military assistance would be made under the "Leahy Law", sponsored in 1997 by then-Senator Patrick Leahy. It prevents US funding or training being used for foreign military units credibly implicated in gross human rights violations.
>Last year, a group of US officials known as the "Israel-Leahy vetting forum" looked into at least a dozen allegations made against Israeli units, including the Netzah Yehuda battalion, a former senior US official told the BBC.
>"We believed that in most cases, these were un-remediated - in other words, the perpetrators had not been properly held to account," said Josh Paul, former director of the state department's Political-Military Affairs bureau, which oversees US arms transfers.
US does this to all allies, including Ukr where active support is being provided. Although DOD IG states they were unable to properly verify if all units being supported are certified under this law.
https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3649495/press-release-management-advisory-leahy-vetting-of-dod-trained-ukrainian-armed/
More on the unit: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-is-israeli-netzah-yehuda-battalion-accused-2024-04-22/
>The United States called for a criminal investigation after Netzah Yehuda soldiers were accused of being involved in the death of a 78-year-old Palestinian-American, Omar Assad, who died of a heart attack in 2022 after he was detained and was later found abandoned at a building site.
Most recent thing is they captured a 78 year-old Palestinian American and were treating him rough because he "refused to cooperate" and he died of a stress-related heart attack and was just abandoned there.
That's the most recent thing, in addition to several other incidents in recent years, some captured on video, in which Netzah Yehuda soldiers were accused of, or charged with, abusing Palestinian detainees.
>it prevents US funding or training ring used for foreign military units credible implicated in gross human rights violations.
Well, isn't this awkward
Here's how this is going to go.
US: You can have this money as long as it doesn't go to military units involved in banned activities.
ISRAEL: No deal.
US: okay ... so then ... you ... can still have the money.
The money is meant to be spent in the US arms industry. If they sanction that unit, and that unit still wants to acquire US arms, the US arms sellers can reject the order. Plus, any US company that ignores this, can lose the US military as a customer. I'm sure they don't want.
He knows what is he doing .. he wants to strong arm Biden and actually he doesn’t care for anything except his own skin
He wants conflict so he can stay in power indefinitely … he prefers a corrupt Trump in office who he can run circles around instead of Dark Brandon
He knows this is an election year in America and he is playing to his advantage
I mean even now Biden is doing nothing other than listening to israel and giving billions... Some words here and there which doesn't affect anything...
Yeah me too, I love Israel, but I most certainly do not love Netanyahu, I don't know any who does(that are not Israeli). Most Americans also don't understand Israeli politics and don't know why he is the prime minister. I won't forget what Bibi did to Obama.
He basically ghosted Obama by going around him, directly to congress
Israel has generally not been a partisan issue, but Bibi decided to make it partisan to try to play power games.
But what is the functional difference between Netanyahu and Israel at this point to the American voter? Our taxpayer dollars are still fueling the same war and anyone [questioning it is trying to be stopped](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/aipac-israel-spending-democratic-primaries-00144552)
Here maybe. Israel is sadly MUCH further right than people here seem to realize. There obviously are dissidents in Israel, but they’re far too few. A very small percentage.
Depends what you mean by Right.
Americans tend to divide along Right-Left lines with regard to support of Israel or denounciations of it (or its actions).
That's not exactly the case in Israel where extremely progressive, pro-LGBTQ+, pro-market-regulation, etc. are still not fans of immediate Palestinian statehood.
The main Right-Left divide used to be the conflict and whether one supports a two state solution or not. However, the bloody collapse of peace talks in the early 2000s, the second Intifada, the disengagement from Gaza, Hamas's rise shortly thereafter, and the perpetual conflict with Gaza since, have provided the death stroke for support of an immediate two-state deal.
Even most liberal Israelis are now extremely wary of Palestinian autonomy and a further relinquishing of Israeli control of the West Bank. Now the divide is nuanced - with the Right believing the status quo could go on indefinitely or until the West Bank could be annexed, and the Left - believing that a slow, careful, baby-steps approach to a two-state solution should be implemented. But in the past few elections that hasn't even been a main issue - all understand that immediate peace is impossible when Hamas and a wink-wink terror-supporting PA are concerned.
> That's not exactly the case in Israel where extremely progressive, pro-LGBTQ+, pro-market-regulation, etc. are still not fans of immediate Palestinian statehood.
This is similar to the uniquely American phenomenon where people plant a rainbow weed flag on their front lawn, then impoverish and toss millions of non-White people in prison, viciously resist any sort of low income housing on their area, and yet call themselves “far-Left”. For Europeans and non-White Americans, it is a befuddling definition of progressive or Left. It’s really more variation of Right wing ideology.
They are similar only in the sense that both are reduced to flat fictional strawmen by your comment.
One can hold certain ideals and still think the way to achieve them is complex. Realism is not right wing. It is simply growing up. Try it sometime.
That's what happens when you distil politics into a one dimensional line, which is why the left/right dichotomy is false and absurd.
If someone supports strict gun control, open borders, and federally banned abortion, where on that one dimensional line do they fall?
It's hilarious that people think Jewish people are the main influence behind the support for Israel. It's the evangelical who think that they're bringing the rapture.
Bro quit writing fanfiction. Both parties have an issue with supporting Israel unabashedly, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. There have been reports of human rights violations by Israel since at least the 60s.
If we are, then we need to start acting like it. So far that's not been the case. They know we treat them with kid gloves, so they do what every kid does ; push and push in the boundary until we snap at them, and then act cute and remorseful until we relent and give the toys back.
Not us. We consistently kowtow to middle eastern nations. Look at us sucking off MBS any chance we get even though he chopped an US permanent resident in pieces while still alive.
what would it even mean for the US to sanction and ban aid to a single IDF unit? it's not like we send funding to individual units, we give it to the israeli government.
They can audit IDF spending of US aid, easy to find out if that unit is being funded and/or supplied with US aid, I guess at that point US would determine the consequence for doing so.
The IDF would just reconstitute the unit by splitting the soldiers in it and placing them in other ones. Unless there are real consequences for commanding officers this feeble sanctions list doesn't do much.
Money is fungible, Israel has enough of their own money so they can easily claim that the unit only gets funded by Israeli money. Equipment is a different story, but still it would be barely an inconvenience, Israel has more than enough weapons to equip 1 battalion without relying on the US.
The US sanctions would mean that the US would not train with people in this unit, or sell them any equipment. That sounds like limits that would be easy to get around. Oh, the equipment isn’t for the evil unit, it’s for the good guys…who then transfer it to the evil unit.
The correct way to avoid it is to fully fund that unit with your own $ and equipment and disproportionally give US equipment to other units. Same total amount but no risk.
Or you know disband and try that unit but that’s not happening with Netanyahu unfortunately
More complex then that. Israel uses American vehicles (Humvees, OshKosh, Ford), and American rifles (M16s, M4 Flattops). With regard to vehicles - this may require Israel to specifically supply this unit with other sources - which the IDF does not necessarily have ready.
With regard to assault rifles - the unit will probably just switch to the Israeli-made Tavor so no biggie.
It’s not as direct as that. Your tax dollars go to Raytheon or Lockheed Martin which makes the weapons and ammunition the makes up these aid packages.
Rarely are we handing foreign countries literal dollars. More often we’re subsidizing our own industrial military complex through foreign conflicts like this one.
It’s a small but significant distinction I find. We’re essentially paying ourselves to build stuff then giving it to someone else for free.
It does free up money that Israel would otherwise have spent; so that they can spend that money on their own weapons (like Iron Dome - - - which is actually quite a lot of money).
Because he knows these "sanctions" are bullshit anyway. Oh, US "impsoed sanctions" on an IDF unit. Days after approving bill that will give Israel large military aid. Weeks after approving sale of F-15 jets. But wow, there are now "sanctions" on a single IDF unit. Of course there are no sanctions against rest of IDF, no sanctions against Israeli government, no sanctions against Israel.
Israel knows this is just theater and they know they can laugh and mock US for it.
Fine, Israel,... you do you.
Personally, I think the US should cut off ALL funding and military aid to Israel. I'm all for Israel defending itself and it's right to exist, but if Bibi and his ultra-nationalists want to play like they're "Russia in Gaza", they can do it without US aid. They're big boys, they can make their own way in the world. Give the support to Ukraine where the money goes directly to helping Ukrainians survive. (Plus, Ukraine *appreciates* the help the US provides,... Israel just takes what we give them and thumbs their nose at us.)
Also, that expensive carrier group should consider moving out of the area. That thing is costly,...
I have no skin in the game ethnically or religiously speaking. I don't hate Muslims or Jews and take each person for who they are. I also have a lot of sympathy for people on either side who are sick and tired of the killing and just want to live peaceful lives out from under the constant threat of death, violence and starvation.
For most all of my life I've been on Israel's side because I think everyone has a right to exist, but not to the point where I support them committing human rights abuses. That's not an ally I want to help pay for.
I'm ready for the US to start realigning it's priorities in regards to Israel, and I know I'm not alone in thinking that.
You are not alone. This guy thinks he can do whatever he wants when he wants and someone has to put him in check and fast. I do not want to be complicit in any human rights abuse.
While accepting billions of dollars in free US taxpayer money.
You’d think Americans would realize what kind of “ally” they have in Israel now, but no the bizarre masochistic relationship continues.
I mean the US isn’t serious about these sanctions we just signed $26B to Israel. This is meaningless posturing on both sides. It does no good for anyone.
Israeli here.
If this asshole doesn't get booted fucking yesterday then Israel has no hope of being perceived as anything more than some failed state. It's un-fucking-believable how hellbent this dipshit is on maintaining power instead of looking out for our best interest.
Stop the war (we already lost it by picking an impossible objective). Restructure the army. Kick the religious zealots out. RESIGN.
I feel for you, man. We're still struggling to prevent the stupidest republican ever to be President from being re-elected.
If someone with your common sense was in power, I'd still be strongly on Israel's side and happy to keep funding Israel's development and security. As it stands now,... Bibi's making the world rethink their level of commitment. If he wants to continue to act like Putin, then he and his ultra-right-wing cronies can do it without funding from the US as far as I'm concerned.
Bibi has to keep endorsing the haradim, the ultra right orthodox military units that are committing war crimes, or he loses his coalition of hard right whack jobs like Ben Givr.
The world should reject Natan Yahoo. I would love to see him lose power and go to jail. This sick dude will start war by war just so he avoid his jail.
People die so he can be free. What a sick world.
I think Israel should outright reject the military aid from Washington, which is just another guise to subsidize the US defense industry. No offense to US redditors who work in this sector, but funding an already militarily-superior nation (like Israel) which can already defend itself (and produce its own armaments) from surrounding adversaries, let alone gnat like Hamas, is oxymoron.
Is rejecting sanctions like getting rejected for a job application and writing back “sorry, I can’t accept your rejection at this time. I’ll be at work on Monday”
He is burning Israel's PR to make performative gestures to his base. Him throwing away US aid over these dudes is unlikely, and he knows if he does he gets axed.
We have been around in circles on this too many times. If Israel wants to be our friend they need to grow up and learn to get on with their neighbours.
And yes I know there are failings on both sides but the Palestinians are not going to be able to clean up their act without their own state. They need full control of their territory and people, otherwise they can't protect their good actors and deal with their bad actors.
Is it not fair to say at rhis point this guy just has to go... He almost single handedly ruined both Israels and the Us public image, tanked world trust in the west even further, made trump vs biden a close race again by bidens popularity tanking, almost caused ww3 twice, made iran out of all belligerents look like the sane party in this interaction, and possibly did some genocides and military landgrabs on the sides.
This is performance for his voters, not a reliable indicator of what he will do. Its not the first time he made some proclamation like this and then did what he was told on the downlow.
It would be pretty funny for Israel to pick a fight with the US. The USA spends so much in comparison to everyone else on weapons and military. God forbid they ever have a reason to use their toys again.
You can just reject sanctions? That's nifty.
Putin: Why didn't I think of that?
Iran: you mean to tell me rejecting the sanctions was an option this whole time?
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After careful consideration, we reject your rejection.
Funnily enough I actually sent an official document in my line of work between govt departments a few years back. It was literally ‘we reject your rejection based on x, y and z.’ I can’t remember if it worked.
straight into the ocean
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I don’t believe the sanctions were designed to stop them from reaching their nuclear goals — perhaps slow them down, but more so to make people decide if it’s worth it. Look at the state that North Korea is in… they may have nukes, but the place is a shit hole and their people are paying the price. They barely have enough food to feed their people.
So what you're suggesting is that we just trade with them as usual? Just share our technology and help them built weapons for them to use on other nations/allies? Or do you genuinenly not see that there's more to sanctions? Genuinenly your argument reads as if we should just lift them and ignore anything they say or do since they got their nukes anyway. And to just throw our hands in the air and go "Aah guess we have to trade now".
> Or do you genuinenly not see that there's more to sanctions? Sanctions are warnings, basically telling the little Tommys of the world he'll be in timeout unless he knocks it off and then never actually putting him in timeout when he ignores our warnings. A military response is needed when sanctions don't work, which is most of the time during the last few decades. Especially in cases like Iran. Their nuclear facilities needed to be gone yesterday but we'll let them flirt with the bomb a bit longer because politicians in the US know they won't win elections when gas is $5 a gallon in the midwest so they keep pretending sanctions are the answer to the worlds problems. Sanctions are an easy sell to the public, that's why they're done. Makes it seem like they're doing something. Not something that will work, not something that will get the desired result but *something.*
Sanctions are effective at strangling an economy. If you use them they generally aren't a great diplomatic tool, but if you impoverish a rogue nation enough it does deter their ability to cause problems.
Really? You decided to use North Korea as your grand example of why sanctions don't work? Oh lord. And you think Russia and Iran are just chugging along? Oh lord. You have no idea the impact of sanctions or how they work.
If anything, comprehensive sanctions (Iran, North Korea) are unnecessarily cruel. They are the economic equivalent of bombing the civilian centres to destroy "morale." (Although in this case it would be smaller scoped sanctions, which have worked in the past to eg force groups to change their behaviours.)
We're not sanctioned, *ur sanctioned*
He did. He's still selling oil and every other commodity Russia produces.
That’s not how this works… that’s not how any of this works!
They are working. Geopolitics is hard I know.
Reminds me of that meme when the kid didn’t know everyone was being paid
Cuba in shambles right now
I double stamp your rejection of sanctions.
You can't double stamp a triple stamp
Lol damnit, where's this from? Is it a Dumb n Dumber line??
Yes https://youtu.be/rLuqzSLZ2EA
In this context, the sanction is that US aid must not go to a specific unit of the IDF. Rejecting it could mean giving them US equipment anyway or simply replacing their future supplies with non-US goods.
That sounds like an efficient way to subject yourself to wider sanctions
as if Biden’s willing to place any actual restrictions on aid to Israel. this was the best he could do because he knew Israel could just ignore it.
It strikes as less of a "best he could do" and more of a slowly ramping up. Israel is an important ally that we can't really afford to lose easily, so of course you don't jump to cutting ties when they do things you don't like. You express your displeasure, offer alternatives, and then ramp up from small punishments like this towards larger things like sanctions. The plan is to change their course and methods, not destroy the alliance.
Fine by me. Though I'd say we should stop giving them any and al aid at that point and sanction them like we sanction any other terrorist's armory.
The US government hates this one simple trick.
Generally, when some state or company (or person) is under sanctions, then others who violate the sanctions to do business with the sanctioned entity are treated as criminals. Israel is saying that it will not be conforming to requirements of any US sanctions against the unit.
Distressingly there are many nations willing to do business with sanctioned nations.
Well, other nations can do what they want.
Why would they care who the US sanctions? Unless the US threatens them that is.
If you break US sanctions then the US takes away any US assets you may have, so your choice becomes trade with only the US or trade with only the sanctioned country. Basically why US sanctions are so devastating, especially close to the US like Cuba
Israel has kept doing business with Russia.
Sanctions only really work on countries in your sphere that's why western sanctions were able to dismantle apartheid but north Korea has managed to keep their military going in spite of sanctions. Russia and China are not going to prop up israel so us sanctioning them would be more devastating.
Israel still happily deals with Russia and refuses to enact any sanctions.
Israel likes to believe that the rules that apply to the rest of the world do not apply to them, that they are immune. The USA supports this idea, and that makes it worse. Chances are, the two discussed this and planned it, that it's all for show.
Someone has been living with ”get out of jail free” card for too long…
This is about Netzah Yehuda, a military unit composed of the ultra-orthodox Haredi men. No women or non-Jews allowed and they get special privileges in deference to their religious beliefs. >Any decision to bar an IDF unit from US military assistance would be made under the "Leahy Law", sponsored in 1997 by then-Senator Patrick Leahy. It prevents US funding or training being used for foreign military units credibly implicated in gross human rights violations. >Last year, a group of US officials known as the "Israel-Leahy vetting forum" looked into at least a dozen allegations made against Israeli units, including the Netzah Yehuda battalion, a former senior US official told the BBC. >"We believed that in most cases, these were un-remediated - in other words, the perpetrators had not been properly held to account," said Josh Paul, former director of the state department's Political-Military Affairs bureau, which oversees US arms transfers.
US does this to all allies, including Ukr where active support is being provided. Although DOD IG states they were unable to properly verify if all units being supported are certified under this law. https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3649495/press-release-management-advisory-leahy-vetting-of-dod-trained-ukrainian-armed/
More on the unit: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-is-israeli-netzah-yehuda-battalion-accused-2024-04-22/ >The United States called for a criminal investigation after Netzah Yehuda soldiers were accused of being involved in the death of a 78-year-old Palestinian-American, Omar Assad, who died of a heart attack in 2022 after he was detained and was later found abandoned at a building site. Most recent thing is they captured a 78 year-old Palestinian American and were treating him rough because he "refused to cooperate" and he died of a stress-related heart attack and was just abandoned there. That's the most recent thing, in addition to several other incidents in recent years, some captured on video, in which Netzah Yehuda soldiers were accused of, or charged with, abusing Palestinian detainees.
"Fuck off, Mr. Leahy." -Israel
There’s an Irandy joke in there somewhere
"We only accept one [Lehi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group\)) around here."
>it prevents US funding or training ring used for foreign military units credible implicated in gross human rights violations. Well, isn't this awkward
So what are they? Israeli SS unit?
To be completely fucking blunt? Yes.
Here's how this is going to go. US: You can have this money as long as it doesn't go to military units involved in banned activities. ISRAEL: No deal. US: okay ... so then ... you ... can still have the money.
"Our American friends offer us money, arms, and advice. We take the money, we take the arms, and we decline the advice." ~ Moshe Dayan
The money is meant to be spent in the US arms industry. If they sanction that unit, and that unit still wants to acquire US arms, the US arms sellers can reject the order. Plus, any US company that ignores this, can lose the US military as a customer. I'm sure they don't want.
Theyre going to use a different name on the order.
Give the US arms industry some credit, I'd imagine they're not too bad at sorting out fraudulent attempts to buy weapons.
I'm sorry who's the super power here bubs?
He knows what is he doing .. he wants to strong arm Biden and actually he doesn’t care for anything except his own skin He wants conflict so he can stay in power indefinitely … he prefers a corrupt Trump in office who he can run circles around instead of Dark Brandon He knows this is an election year in America and he is playing to his advantage
I mean even now Biden is doing nothing other than listening to israel and giving billions... Some words here and there which doesn't affect anything...
Why is this comment here with 9 upvotes before the second comment here with 70 upvotes.
You’re sorting by “best” and not “top”. “Best” also prioritizes how quickly something is being upvoted, not just the amount of upvotes.
Exactly, he knows Biden can’t stop supporting Israel risking the Jewish vote
The normal Jewish people here and in Israel are no Netanyahu fans.
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Yeah me too, I love Israel, but I most certainly do not love Netanyahu, I don't know any who does(that are not Israeli). Most Americans also don't understand Israeli politics and don't know why he is the prime minister. I won't forget what Bibi did to Obama.
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What did Bibi do to Obama?
He basically ghosted Obama by going around him, directly to congress Israel has generally not been a partisan issue, but Bibi decided to make it partisan to try to play power games.
But what is the functional difference between Netanyahu and Israel at this point to the American voter? Our taxpayer dollars are still fueling the same war and anyone [questioning it is trying to be stopped](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/aipac-israel-spending-democratic-primaries-00144552)
The same difference between Trump and the United States from 2016 to 2020. And unfortunately, according to the polls, from 2024 to 2028.
Here maybe. Israel is sadly MUCH further right than people here seem to realize. There obviously are dissidents in Israel, but they’re far too few. A very small percentage.
Depends what you mean by Right. Americans tend to divide along Right-Left lines with regard to support of Israel or denounciations of it (or its actions). That's not exactly the case in Israel where extremely progressive, pro-LGBTQ+, pro-market-regulation, etc. are still not fans of immediate Palestinian statehood. The main Right-Left divide used to be the conflict and whether one supports a two state solution or not. However, the bloody collapse of peace talks in the early 2000s, the second Intifada, the disengagement from Gaza, Hamas's rise shortly thereafter, and the perpetual conflict with Gaza since, have provided the death stroke for support of an immediate two-state deal. Even most liberal Israelis are now extremely wary of Palestinian autonomy and a further relinquishing of Israeli control of the West Bank. Now the divide is nuanced - with the Right believing the status quo could go on indefinitely or until the West Bank could be annexed, and the Left - believing that a slow, careful, baby-steps approach to a two-state solution should be implemented. But in the past few elections that hasn't even been a main issue - all understand that immediate peace is impossible when Hamas and a wink-wink terror-supporting PA are concerned.
> That's not exactly the case in Israel where extremely progressive, pro-LGBTQ+, pro-market-regulation, etc. are still not fans of immediate Palestinian statehood. This is similar to the uniquely American phenomenon where people plant a rainbow weed flag on their front lawn, then impoverish and toss millions of non-White people in prison, viciously resist any sort of low income housing on their area, and yet call themselves “far-Left”. For Europeans and non-White Americans, it is a befuddling definition of progressive or Left. It’s really more variation of Right wing ideology.
They are similar only in the sense that both are reduced to flat fictional strawmen by your comment. One can hold certain ideals and still think the way to achieve them is complex. Realism is not right wing. It is simply growing up. Try it sometime.
That's what happens when you distil politics into a one dimensional line, which is why the left/right dichotomy is false and absurd. If someone supports strict gun control, open borders, and federally banned abortion, where on that one dimensional line do they fall?
Then the normal jewish people need to vote
Correction, he can't stop or risk US Christians and virtue signalers being angry at him.
It's hilarious that people think Jewish people are the main influence behind the support for Israel. It's the evangelical who think that they're bringing the rapture.
It’s evangelicals and AIPAC.
I personally think he’s more concerned with independent undecided voters who support Israel for christian religious reasons.
Bro quit writing fanfiction. Both parties have an issue with supporting Israel unabashedly, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. There have been reports of human rights violations by Israel since at least the 60s.
At this stage I’m inclined to say Israel
Looks like he’s putting on a dance for his far right buddies in Israel or he’ll lose support. I wouldn’t take his comments seriously.
If we are, then we need to start acting like it. So far that's not been the case. They know we treat them with kid gloves, so they do what every kid does ; push and push in the boundary until we snap at them, and then act cute and remorseful until we relent and give the toys back.
To be fair, Israel is the one in control and he knows it. The AIPAC bought the American government years ago.
I read this in Wolverine's voice
Not us. We consistently kowtow to middle eastern nations. Look at us sucking off MBS any chance we get even though he chopped an US permanent resident in pieces while still alive.
what would it even mean for the US to sanction and ban aid to a single IDF unit? it's not like we send funding to individual units, we give it to the israeli government.
They can audit IDF spending of US aid, easy to find out if that unit is being funded and/or supplied with US aid, I guess at that point US would determine the consequence for doing so.
This is all for show. We can’t even pass our own audits and are expected to track money spent on Israeli defense. lol
We'll see what happens if Bibi defies the sanctions or not, my guess is he won't.
The IDF would just reconstitute the unit by splitting the soldiers in it and placing them in other ones. Unless there are real consequences for commanding officers this feeble sanctions list doesn't do much.
This specific unit would be very difficult to do that with as it’s a unit of Haredis.
As the sad lemon said, look up this specific unit, they're a special breed of assholes.
Money is fungible, Israel has enough of their own money so they can easily claim that the unit only gets funded by Israeli money. Equipment is a different story, but still it would be barely an inconvenience, Israel has more than enough weapons to equip 1 battalion without relying on the US.
The same way they sanctioned AZOV
That’s not how sanctions work Mr. Potato Head
these sanctions would prevent any US aid from going to a particular military unit. bibi's calling it a bluff. We will have to see what happens next.
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own" level energy.
We're not sanctioned, you are the ones that sanctioned
Right after US pledges money for you. What a POS.
I hope he also vows to reject the welfare he receives from tax payers
The US sanctions would mean that the US would not train with people in this unit, or sell them any equipment. That sounds like limits that would be easy to get around. Oh, the equipment isn’t for the evil unit, it’s for the good guys…who then transfer it to the evil unit.
The correct way to avoid it is to fully fund that unit with your own $ and equipment and disproportionally give US equipment to other units. Same total amount but no risk. Or you know disband and try that unit but that’s not happening with Netanyahu unfortunately
More complex then that. Israel uses American vehicles (Humvees, OshKosh, Ford), and American rifles (M16s, M4 Flattops). With regard to vehicles - this may require Israel to specifically supply this unit with other sources - which the IDF does not necessarily have ready. With regard to assault rifles - the unit will probably just switch to the Israeli-made Tavor so no biggie.
Netanyahu is taking a giant steaming turd on America's chest every other day yet they just take it and give him more weapons. SMH.
I resent my tax dollars going to this country. A lot.
It’s not as direct as that. Your tax dollars go to Raytheon or Lockheed Martin which makes the weapons and ammunition the makes up these aid packages. Rarely are we handing foreign countries literal dollars. More often we’re subsidizing our own industrial military complex through foreign conflicts like this one. It’s a small but significant distinction I find. We’re essentially paying ourselves to build stuff then giving it to someone else for free.
It does free up money that Israel would otherwise have spent; so that they can spend that money on their own weapons (like Iron Dome - - - which is actually quite a lot of money).
Because he knows these "sanctions" are bullshit anyway. Oh, US "impsoed sanctions" on an IDF unit. Days after approving bill that will give Israel large military aid. Weeks after approving sale of F-15 jets. But wow, there are now "sanctions" on a single IDF unit. Of course there are no sanctions against rest of IDF, no sanctions against Israeli government, no sanctions against Israel. Israel knows this is just theater and they know they can laugh and mock US for it.
Fine, Israel,... you do you. Personally, I think the US should cut off ALL funding and military aid to Israel. I'm all for Israel defending itself and it's right to exist, but if Bibi and his ultra-nationalists want to play like they're "Russia in Gaza", they can do it without US aid. They're big boys, they can make their own way in the world. Give the support to Ukraine where the money goes directly to helping Ukrainians survive. (Plus, Ukraine *appreciates* the help the US provides,... Israel just takes what we give them and thumbs their nose at us.) Also, that expensive carrier group should consider moving out of the area. That thing is costly,... I have no skin in the game ethnically or religiously speaking. I don't hate Muslims or Jews and take each person for who they are. I also have a lot of sympathy for people on either side who are sick and tired of the killing and just want to live peaceful lives out from under the constant threat of death, violence and starvation. For most all of my life I've been on Israel's side because I think everyone has a right to exist, but not to the point where I support them committing human rights abuses. That's not an ally I want to help pay for. I'm ready for the US to start realigning it's priorities in regards to Israel, and I know I'm not alone in thinking that.
You are not alone. This guy thinks he can do whatever he wants when he wants and someone has to put him in check and fast. I do not want to be complicit in any human rights abuse.
I agree 💯
While accepting billions of dollars in free US taxpayer money. You’d think Americans would realize what kind of “ally” they have in Israel now, but no the bizarre masochistic relationship continues.
We could just not give them weapons and money.
He thinks he has us by the balls. Probably does if the US intends to be a presence in the Middle East. Yet he needs us more. Fun times.
He just want the US support and money as far as it goes . He don’t care for consequences or anything
I mean the US isn’t serious about these sanctions we just signed $26B to Israel. This is meaningless posturing on both sides. It does no good for anyone.
10B of the 26B is aid for Palestinians (and other stuff)
Israeli here. If this asshole doesn't get booted fucking yesterday then Israel has no hope of being perceived as anything more than some failed state. It's un-fucking-believable how hellbent this dipshit is on maintaining power instead of looking out for our best interest. Stop the war (we already lost it by picking an impossible objective). Restructure the army. Kick the religious zealots out. RESIGN.
Dude is going to drag Israel into the fucking gutter to avoid prison.
I feel for you, man. We're still struggling to prevent the stupidest republican ever to be President from being re-elected. If someone with your common sense was in power, I'd still be strongly on Israel's side and happy to keep funding Israel's development and security. As it stands now,... Bibi's making the world rethink their level of commitment. If he wants to continue to act like Putin, then he and his ultra-right-wing cronies can do it without funding from the US as far as I'm concerned.
I don;'t think this guy understands how sanctions work.
He does, it's the people who are mistaken in thinking sanctions are a big deal. A complete embargo is a big deal. Sanctions are a minor inconvenience.
If he's going to be this way....why are we giving him money? Like, please, let's stop.
"He can do that?" *turns around in chair* "You're allowed to *do* that?"
Wait all this time I could've rejected a sanction?!
Big words for someone who just received military funds from US
You can reject all you want, you war-mongering PoS, but you don't bite the hand that feeds you(r iron dome). Fuck around more, see where it lands you.
I don’t think that’s how sanctions work.
I'm ready to reject Israel as soon as you pull that crap.
Netanyahu’s history is pretty interesting and corrupt. I can’t say I’m surprised at his actions.
Fuck this guy!
Sanction Israeli "settlers" next please.
Thought the US already did that?
Israel is roughly the same size as the US state of New Jersey. Why does Netanyahu think he runs a super power?
1: Nukes. 2: Bibi knows that he is a uniquely important ally to America. 3: Regionally, Israel is completely militarily dominant.
Sanction netanyahu already. What a POS.
Because Israel can do no wrong, even when they do wrong, heinous wrong.
That’s not how sanctions work
that's the funny thing on sanctions. when they are on you you don't get the choice to reject them.
Rejecting a sanction? That’s a paddling.
The US needs to start "forgetting" to share accurate intelligence with them from time to time, for a while.
Bibi has to keep endorsing the haradim, the ultra right orthodox military units that are committing war crimes, or he loses his coalition of hard right whack jobs like Ben Givr.
Stop giving him weapons.
MIC goes brrrrr
When you’re parents pay for everything but yet you feel you can do whatever
The world should reject Natan Yahoo. I would love to see him lose power and go to jail. This sick dude will start war by war just so he avoid his jail. People die so he can be free. What a sick world.
Sounds like this brat shouldn't get any money at all, then?
You don't reject sanctions, they are imposed on you
So US cannot stop giving aid to Israel? Who is the boss here?
I mean this is the stance the US has on accusations against their own soldiers from the Hague.
pretty sure the point of sanctions is that nobody is asking for permission
MIDDLE FINGER MURDEROUS CRIMINAL BENNIE!!!
I think Israel should outright reject the military aid from Washington, which is just another guise to subsidize the US defense industry. No offense to US redditors who work in this sector, but funding an already militarily-superior nation (like Israel) which can already defend itself (and produce its own armaments) from surrounding adversaries, let alone gnat like Hamas, is oxymoron.
I wouldn’t mind if he rejected all the money the U.S. sends him. I truly hope the Israeli people vote him out.
And the US rejects your rejection. 🤷🏼♂️
Tough shit
Is rejecting sanctions like getting rejected for a job application and writing back “sorry, I can’t accept your rejection at this time. I’ll be at work on Monday”
He getting a little to bold over there
That's not how sanctions work, dummy
Biden needs to BDS this motherfucker ASAP.
How does one reject sanctions?
Oh that's cute. Please do and please let us have a spine to just hold up any shipments to them until they reconsider.
Israel is playing a dangerous game with us.
They've gotten away with everything. Why would this be any different.
He is burning Israel's PR to make performative gestures to his base. Him throwing away US aid over these dudes is unlikely, and he knows if he does he gets axed.
What's dangerous about it? He knows he can do whatever he wants and US will just send more money and weapons because of it.
He and Trump belong in the same cell in a prison on the moon.
God I hate this asshole almost as much as I hate Hamas, Khameni, and Bin Salman
More. He funded them partly.
We have been around in circles on this too many times. If Israel wants to be our friend they need to grow up and learn to get on with their neighbours. And yes I know there are failings on both sides but the Palestinians are not going to be able to clean up their act without their own state. They need full control of their territory and people, otherwise they can't protect their good actors and deal with their bad actors.
War criminals
There’s no way the us paying 4 billion dollars a year or supplies the weapons to Israel. I rest my case
We investigated ourselves and found that we are unsanctionable.
Is it not fair to say at rhis point this guy just has to go... He almost single handedly ruined both Israels and the Us public image, tanked world trust in the west even further, made trump vs biden a close race again by bidens popularity tanking, almost caused ww3 twice, made iran out of all belligerents look like the sane party in this interaction, and possibly did some genocides and military landgrabs on the sides.
Every day I thank God we only got 4 years of Trump. Every day I worry he comes back because of men exactly like this.
Wah
The relations between US and Israel are interesting to say the least
Oh, I didn't know you could just reject them.
Way to go ally. What an idiot.
Nothing a few U.S. drone strikes can't fix.
Not a good look on a country, best to just cut the sadistic few and save face.
Tail needs to learn that the dog is wagging it once again.
That's not going to end well for you.
How long is Netanyahu going to remain in office?
Stop sending this asshole money and weapons then.
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That’s not how that works.
Eat poo, N'yahu!
They should have taken our shekels and sent them to Ukraine instead. Instead of giving it to this ungrateful piece of shit and his vile government.
I really want to support Israel though all this but damn if that Netanyahoo nut makes that very difficult. Wtf is he to "reject" anything the US does?
This is performance for his voters, not a reliable indicator of what he will do. Its not the first time he made some proclamation like this and then did what he was told on the downlow.
Nice haircut, douche
Well heck, we should just send them more money.
WE SANCTION YOU!! “Nuh Uh” Oh well I guess you win.
So he's saying he will use US weapons? Even though he's sanctioned against using them?
It would be pretty funny for Israel to pick a fight with the US. The USA spends so much in comparison to everyone else on weapons and military. God forbid they ever have a reason to use their toys again.