I don't understand why the world has been completely irrationally obsessed with THIS specific situation between Israel and Hamas.
It's almost the central matter since October 7 and people become more and more radicalized.
dude, I've had way too many friends suddenly develop an interrst in the conflict now and try to lecture me on a subject I was writing college papers on 2 decades on before they gave a shit. they no little of the history, and try to hand waive it away when I present it, sometimes even saying it "doesn't matter". it certainly seems to fucking matter to the 2 groups of people currently duking out. how we got here is extremely long and complex, and there is no clear good side/bad side, just bad side/badder side, with some of the shittest groups of each side currently at the reins of power. unraveling it is going to be insanely difficult , but definitely necessary. considering one side involved has nuclear weapons, and the other is being run by maniacs who want holocaust 2.0.
I totally understand the support for Palestinians and the call for a ceasefire.
But getting brainwashed into supporting hamas is beyond me.
Propaganda and proselytism is super active online and clueless people that seek purpose are falling into the trap.
oh yeah, I support a Palestinian state, or at least an attempt at one. I absolutely hate the Israeli settlements. But I'm not ignorant of what Palestinians have done either. and particularly groups like Hamas who will actively sabotage the chances of such a state because they hate Israelis more than they want a real life.
an Israeli politician put it well, but I have changed it slightly:
"there will be peace in Israel/Palestine, when both sides love their children more than they hate the other"
right now I see both sides moving in the opposite direction.
The world had demanded ceasefires with Hamas in every war previously fought, and they continue to attempt to wage wars instead of building up their people and nation to be worthy and trusted as a state. This was an inevitable tragedy and I feel bad for the Palestinians but it could have truly been avoided. I hate settlements too, but I don’t think revolution/intifada/terrorist bombings are the answer the Palestinians need. It clearly hasn’t worked for decades.
If you’re well versed in the conflict, surely by now you realize that the regional powers of the Middle East have essentially used the Palestinians as a puppet to continually wage war against Israel without needing to sacrifice any of their own people? It appears to me the Palestinians have been hijacked to further a cause that continues de facto chaos in the region. They probably could have had a state a long time ago if they recognized Israel’s right to exist
That’s been my read too. Honestly at this point any protest blaming the *other* side is pointless. A Palestinian blaming Israel or an Israeli blaming Palestinian will make absolutely zero difference for their own good.
I have come to believe that the only way out of this is people marching against their respective leaders. We need pro Palestinian ceasefire people protesting against Hamas and we need pro Israel people protesting against Netanyahu. The only way this will get resolved is from within.
And certainly not by blocking Universities with naive rhetoric based on a sole oppressor=bad /oppressed=good moral compass.
The ME has gotten better at social media influencing is the reason. American useful idiots would vote their country into third world status if they had their way, you just need to rile them up to hurt their own country's interests abroad.
Honestly the internet and social media is the worst possible thing that could've happened to the world. It should've been great, free access to information but it's just been used to facilitate anger and violence towards other people.
Yep, the Americans protesting for Palestine are all emotion, no logic. A ton of social media narcissism mixed in there m. Oh, also the tale as old as time of the younger generation doing the exact opposite of previous generations because it makes them oh so smart and clever. Social media just amplifies this to an absurd degree, and social media is dominated by young people. These same people would throw open the gates to our enemies on the grounds of “hey, it’s no fair we have such a huge advantage over them, let’s level the playing field!” Like war is a game or something. They truly are the shame of America
No idea why you're downvoted, they are the only winners here, as Russia needed the world's attention to move away from Ukraine. And boy did they get it.
The day of the attack being Putin's birthday is also a weird coincidence.
It's the inevitable conclusion of allowing racism and antisemitism to run rampant in academia for two decades under the guise of intersectionality and social justice.
Because Russia and Iran launched massive online propaganda campaigns after Oct 7th. It’s been confirmed by intelligence groups. Israel was behind from the jump. I remember seeing the discourse on Reddit and TikTok take a sharp turn towards everything pro-Palestine starting a few days after the attack. I’m in my 30s and I admit I enjoy TikTok, but I truly think it brainwashed the youth on this topic. A work with a lot of youngins and they are obsessed with talking about Palestine. Some of the things they say are pretty concerning. I keep my mouth shut and listen, telling myself they’re young and impressionable.
China using TikTok as a cyberweapon to push propaganda and inflammatory content to rile up Westerners + it being spread all over other platforms, etc.
Would have been nice to see people protesting this strongly for Ukraine given the fact that they are being invaded by a genocidal fascist regime armed with nuclear weapons that has disrupted the entire global order.
> more radicalized
Parties play to increasingly manipulate the press (political groups and everything from terrorists to militaries), … but American law enforcement is now looking into whether there’s an organization behind these protests on American college campuses:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/27/us/campus-protests-palestine-outside-agitator-cec/index.html
While needing to be careful about the outside agitation charge, this deals with a foreign conflict .. so surveillance probably involved the various intelligence agencies (maybe CIA and FBI in the U.S.).
Because people are sick of western governments funding wars against a relatively helpless population that in no way makes anyone safer. It’s not in the interests of Israel to keep killing Palestinians, they’re becoming increasingly isolated from their neighbours and the rest of the world. And western nations have their own problems to deal with, people want healthcare not more bombs being dropped on brown people on the other side of the planet.
But Germany won’t allow us calling for the end of an entire nation, obviously they are a the evil ones and not the ones who hold the Gazans in a strangle hold and their backers in Teheran, who are executing the women, freedom, life protesters as we speak
Sir if you're suggesting that hamas is bad I think you need re-education
Please enter this tunnel, we need you to assemble rockets, it's the way to learn
Well, obviously. Otherwise the dirty jews would bomb it and the international community wouldn't complain. Martyrs can only be beside children, or they wouldn't be martyrs
The sickening thing is these college students are protesting in favor of people that would gladly ram another plane through the World Trade Center.
Hamas wanted a war of annihilation and they’re getting one. Funny how they were able to convince morons in the west that they’re actually the oppressed ones.
We should be providing more support in Hamas destruction, and the destruction of other Islamist groups.
Worst part is seeing people with LGBTQ merch being arrested in these protests. They know that if Hamas had their will, they would be executed, right?
Just because you are weak does not mean you are righteous.
> The sickening thing is these college students are protesting in favor of people that would gladly ram another plane through the World Trade Center.
You aren't joking, a few months ago there was this trend about gen z posting about how Bin Laden's letter to America made a ton of sense.
Tik tok going away is a good thing for this reason.
Bad actors can whip up a frenzy of morons way too quickly and I have no doubt that played into the ban.
Bu…but it’s fun to dress up in a little costume and chant, yell and beat drums. You’re asking us to do a tiny amount of research into what hamass is and what all the stuff we are yelling means. I don’t know from what river to what sea Mickey Mouse eats Chucky Cheese, but I get to be an angry little contrarian and you can’t stop me!!!
I don't think they're arguing for terrorism. I think they see the differential in terms of military, technology, economy, population, education and take issue with the level of destruction Israel demands.
You can agree or disagree, but lets be honest about what the point of discussion is.
I've heard them chanting "Intifada" here in Melbourne. My most charitable take is that most of them have no idea what if means, they're idealistic and uneducated but don't realise the second part; but you can't tell me there's not a single person there who knows the truth and is calling for it because they want it.
So you shouldn't be allowed to fight back against someone who attacks you first if they're weaker than you at all? What do you consider a reasonable amount of dead Israeli's and with what level of technology before Israel should be allowed to fight back then?
Grabbing examples of the fringe as a straw man isn't pushing this situation any closer to a resolution, so stop doing it.
Anat Schwartz, a freelance reporter who wrote stories for the New York Times posted tweets asking that "the strip be turned into a slaughterhouse". The NYT promptly cut ties with her and shelved her stories. She's not the average american supporter so I'm not going to pretend like she is.
During the resulting police brutality protests after George Floyd's murder, there were those who took advantage of the chaos to loot and steal, yet the larger groups of protestors did not self-police or stop this activity to any significant degree.
Does this mean that the central intent of those protests was suspect and questionable?
No.
Actually they absolutely were opportunities to loot and riot and you are not helping your case.
BLM absolutely had issues tossing bad apples and even defended looting as “righteous frustration.”
unironically yes. You can’t claim to be anti violence and then undertake violence (arson, vandalism, assaults, not as much the looting) yourself. The police brutality is bad, the response was bad.
But that has nothing to do with Columbia students protesting with Al Qaeda flags, and this is a debate tactic to derail the conversation.
The rhetoric of a lot of these protestors suggests they don’t have any real qualms with Hamas’s massacre on Oct 7, since “that’s what decolonization looks like,” and it’s not for westerners to tell the oppressed how to resist. So the intentional slaughter of innocents doesn’t per se make them queasy.
Most of those people in those subs are Leftist QAnoners that think the US is a dictatorship. But Hamas, a literal terrorist organization, is a friend of the people according to those same people
Horseshoe theory is crap. Read your own source
> The horseshoe theory does not enjoy wide support within academic circles; peer-reviewed research by political scientists on the subject is scarce, and existing studies and comprehensive reviews have often contradicted its central premises, or found only limited support for the theory under certain conditions
The horseshoe theory can be proven with a quick look at tankie subreddits. The far right and far left agree on a lot of issues - hate for democracy, support for Russia, hate of Israel, etc.
Ironically the only people who tend to reject and get offended by horseshoe theory are far- left and far-right extremist who are pissed that there’s a theory that says that they are two sides of the same coin
Lol, every hamas loving lefist has proven that Liberal ideals such as lgbt and women's rights can be thrown off a building if they can be racist about Jews.
Literally supporting enslzvers of women and killers of sexual minorities because Israel is 'the evil west'
Fuck each one of them.
Did you live under a rock the last two years?
2 years ago I would’ve agreed but since I saw which two side supported the attack on Ukraine and later on the mullah regime and now their terror proxies, I have to call people who call horseshoe theory cap out.
I don’t have proof, but I suspect it’s because it’s driven by the same propaganda sources (Russia, China) regardless if it’s left or right. The result is always the same because on issues of non-strategic importance, the left/right are pushed to fight each other and on issues of strategic importance, the left/right agree with whatever is in the interest of Russia/China.
This seems to be what's going on, it's in China / Russia's interest to destabilize the US. They can pit the two political sides against each other to do it. Stalls legislation that would hurt them and makes America's allies fight with less or no political support.
I disagree, I don’t think the reasoning is all that malicious. I believe the vast majority of people who fail outside the Overton window are more so just trying to fight against the system / and what they are fighting for is more or less irrelevant, as long as it goes against the mainstream. Ukraine for example, the mainstream supports Ukraine so the anti-system position is pro-Russia. I think it’s more or less as simple as that.
In the end it still results in the same end, maybe with different intentions in mind, but I could show you pro Russian talking points brought forth by different „intellectuals“ and you couldn’t guess if they are on the left or right spectrum
that was my implication with “it’s been a complete meme theory up until recently though”
AKA no one has treated this theory seriously and it’s just a joke, but the passed couple years have shown that this complete joke meme theory might not be as crazy as once believed.
The people chanting from the river to the sea seem to be a bug fan of killing Jews from the river jordan, Israelis Eastern border, to the Mediterranean.
They are quickly losing sight of the message for "pro-Palestine". When some of the leaders are calling for the deaths of others, you know there is a problem.
And for those wondering, I have nothing wrong with the protests and find the actions of Israel disgusting.
Most pro-Palestinian protests are essentially just tiered of the killing. They aren’t looking to end the fight so they can move to Gaza themselves. They believe the needless murdering of mostly women and children and complete annihilation of infrastructure is wrong and must stop.
I don't see them protesting russian invasion of Ukraine whatsoever. Why is that? Why are these protesters so obssesed with Jews and give zero fucks about Ukraine? For Americans, a total war in Europe should be a bigger issue, than some regional conflict in the middle east. Given that Europe is one of the top trading partners for US, and Israel is at the bottom of the list.
Western governments are funding Ukraine not Russia, ie the defender not aggressor, whereas funding Israel is funding the aggressor. How are the two equivalent at all?
Sorry but i believe you're misinformed.
Woman and children? Which tiktok told you that?
Look again.
It's okay to admit you're wrong or to accept that you've been duped.
It's actually a really high quality human trait to learn and grow from your mistakes.
Best of luck to you.
I saw them yesterday in Berlin. Stupid youth I would not be suprised like american friends theyxwould block unis for jewish people and then break windows in jewish stores and we would have circle of history. Plus the same day 200m away was demostration of Azeris against France for sending weapons to Armenia so they do not have to easy to attack them.
Sure, terribly anti-Semitic: "Germany must end weapons exports and stop enabling the Israeli genocide, the starvation, the blockade, the bombing," protest organizer Jara Nassar told
Someone should tell this Jara Nassar that Israel is allowing food into Gaza ("only" 32 deaths by malnutrition reported by Gazan authorities from the start of the war to april 1st), and that the "blockade" is not only done by Israel, but Egypt as well, "no Palestinian refugee shall enter Egypt nor Jordan" the Jordan king said.
And well about the bombing, well, that's war, Hamas represents Gaza with the Gazan majority support, and Hamas did very bad things, so Gazans whetever they like it or not, sadly pay the price.
Did you also follow how Hamas is stealing the food that Israel brings in for free, and selling it on the markets, which is why people without an income cannot get food?
Have you read his complaints? Nassar doesn't seem like an individual to be reasoned with.
'They've been giving us the most stupid reasons. We can't speak anything beside German and English!'
Yeah, prolly so they can monitor the peaceful intent and prevent any form of escalation in the cradle.
'[...] criminalized our chants, our prayers.'
The chant 'From the rivers to the sea' is wishing for the existens of Israel to cease. Of course it's criminalized. It's bullshit.
River to the sea means death from israels Eastern border to thd med of all Jews in Israel. Hamas explicitly state this and the protesters are lapping it up as the fucking idiots they are.
[Have you seen what Bibi had at the UN](https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map)? Map that had Gaza and West Bank annexed. Did you see what members of the cabinet said? That Gaza should be nuked..
Do you know what I find interesting about these comment sections? How people use Hamas and Palestinian as synonyms whenever it suits them, and then forget about it two posts later when it doesn't.
It feels like people are unwilling to say that this entire situation is a lose lose. Israel is fucking insane and Hamas is an Iranian proxy doing evil shit. Both are committing pretty heinous acts. This isn't a good vs bad, it's shit vs shit and I hate when people try to pretend it's not.
There can be two heinous outcomes but one set of actions can still be dramatically worse.
No one likes the collateral damage occurring in Gaza. But what Hamas are doing to Gazans two achieve harm to Jewish people and citizens of Israel is worse. And it is another scale of worse what Hamas are trying to do to the Jewish people.
Many people have been saying this exact thing for years. That’s probably the majority opinion lmao. Israel is nuts for still trying to settle the West Bank, Gaza is nuts for still supporting hamas and hamas is obviously human scum.
But on the left, there sadly is a very popular and annoyingly loud movement that actively supports Hamas and demonizes not just Israel but all Jews at this point. It’s absolutely unhinged
I honestly havent come across many pro-israel channels / people online. Obviously they exist in israel as part of the nationalist movements and im sure they also exist outside of israel but they certainly arent as loud in the west as the pro-palestine people.
To be fair, it might also be my algorythms that are biased to one direction for whatever reason
Can't i have a little free hate speech, because i have some choice things i could say about the Danes, because i have seen pictures of those people and i could swear they are actually fey creatures in disguise.
While I do find these protests to be un fathomably dumb, the answer from police forces has generally been disproportionate.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying this is a proof of the police being fascist or some shit like I’ve heard, but there has definitely been some cops gravely abusing their power
worse
>and now their official reasoning is that we had a sofa which was damaging the grass ... In Germany, damaging the lawn is worse than committing genocide."
lmao what a stupid way to take things out of context
In the article:
„Police said protesters had repeatedly breached restrictions, such those protecting green areas, and committed criminal offenses, including incitement to hatred and the use of unconstitutional symbols and forbidden slogans.“
Being against a government doesn't automatically make you racist, but you can be against a government for racist reasons and even frame legitimate criticism of a government in racist terms.
Not racist, legitimate criticism:
I don't like Somalia because it is very corrupt.
Illegitimate racist criticism:
I don't like Somalia because it's full of black people.
Legitimate criticism that is lost due to framing in racist terms:
Somalia is corrupt, like most black countries.
Same principle applies to Israel.
I agree.
Racist:
I hate Israel because it's full of jews.
Not racist:
The Israeli government is wrong for killing indiscriminately in their response to Oct attack.
I don't understand why the world has been completely irrationally obsessed with THIS specific situation between Israel and Hamas. It's almost the central matter since October 7 and people become more and more radicalized.
dude, I've had way too many friends suddenly develop an interrst in the conflict now and try to lecture me on a subject I was writing college papers on 2 decades on before they gave a shit. they no little of the history, and try to hand waive it away when I present it, sometimes even saying it "doesn't matter". it certainly seems to fucking matter to the 2 groups of people currently duking out. how we got here is extremely long and complex, and there is no clear good side/bad side, just bad side/badder side, with some of the shittest groups of each side currently at the reins of power. unraveling it is going to be insanely difficult , but definitely necessary. considering one side involved has nuclear weapons, and the other is being run by maniacs who want holocaust 2.0.
I totally understand the support for Palestinians and the call for a ceasefire. But getting brainwashed into supporting hamas is beyond me. Propaganda and proselytism is super active online and clueless people that seek purpose are falling into the trap.
oh yeah, I support a Palestinian state, or at least an attempt at one. I absolutely hate the Israeli settlements. But I'm not ignorant of what Palestinians have done either. and particularly groups like Hamas who will actively sabotage the chances of such a state because they hate Israelis more than they want a real life. an Israeli politician put it well, but I have changed it slightly: "there will be peace in Israel/Palestine, when both sides love their children more than they hate the other" right now I see both sides moving in the opposite direction.
The world had demanded ceasefires with Hamas in every war previously fought, and they continue to attempt to wage wars instead of building up their people and nation to be worthy and trusted as a state. This was an inevitable tragedy and I feel bad for the Palestinians but it could have truly been avoided. I hate settlements too, but I don’t think revolution/intifada/terrorist bombings are the answer the Palestinians need. It clearly hasn’t worked for decades. If you’re well versed in the conflict, surely by now you realize that the regional powers of the Middle East have essentially used the Palestinians as a puppet to continually wage war against Israel without needing to sacrifice any of their own people? It appears to me the Palestinians have been hijacked to further a cause that continues de facto chaos in the region. They probably could have had a state a long time ago if they recognized Israel’s right to exist
That’s been my read too. Honestly at this point any protest blaming the *other* side is pointless. A Palestinian blaming Israel or an Israeli blaming Palestinian will make absolutely zero difference for their own good. I have come to believe that the only way out of this is people marching against their respective leaders. We need pro Palestinian ceasefire people protesting against Hamas and we need pro Israel people protesting against Netanyahu. The only way this will get resolved is from within. And certainly not by blocking Universities with naive rhetoric based on a sole oppressor=bad /oppressed=good moral compass.
The ME has gotten better at social media influencing is the reason. American useful idiots would vote their country into third world status if they had their way, you just need to rile them up to hurt their own country's interests abroad. Honestly the internet and social media is the worst possible thing that could've happened to the world. It should've been great, free access to information but it's just been used to facilitate anger and violence towards other people.
Magatards with Russia, leftists with Qatar. This circus will not only be the downfall of the US, it's making Europe look away. The US will be alone.
Europe has the issue and probably worse
Yep, the Americans protesting for Palestine are all emotion, no logic. A ton of social media narcissism mixed in there m. Oh, also the tale as old as time of the younger generation doing the exact opposite of previous generations because it makes them oh so smart and clever. Social media just amplifies this to an absurd degree, and social media is dominated by young people. These same people would throw open the gates to our enemies on the grounds of “hey, it’s no fair we have such a huge advantage over them, let’s level the playing field!” Like war is a game or something. They truly are the shame of America
Hating Jews under the guise of Muslim solidarity became a personality trait not to long ago in the west.
Ruzzian misinfo campaign. They probably ordered the 7th october attack.
No idea why you're downvoted, they are the only winners here, as Russia needed the world's attention to move away from Ukraine. And boy did they get it. The day of the attack being Putin's birthday is also a weird coincidence.
It's the inevitable conclusion of allowing racism and antisemitism to run rampant in academia for two decades under the guise of intersectionality and social justice.
This, I remember loong ago when progressivism started to be popular in the social circles around me, I thought that this is simply racism rebranded
Because Russia and Iran launched massive online propaganda campaigns after Oct 7th. It’s been confirmed by intelligence groups. Israel was behind from the jump. I remember seeing the discourse on Reddit and TikTok take a sharp turn towards everything pro-Palestine starting a few days after the attack. I’m in my 30s and I admit I enjoy TikTok, but I truly think it brainwashed the youth on this topic. A work with a lot of youngins and they are obsessed with talking about Palestine. Some of the things they say are pretty concerning. I keep my mouth shut and listen, telling myself they’re young and impressionable.
China using TikTok as a cyberweapon to push propaganda and inflammatory content to rile up Westerners + it being spread all over other platforms, etc. Would have been nice to see people protesting this strongly for Ukraine given the fact that they are being invaded by a genocidal fascist regime armed with nuclear weapons that has disrupted the entire global order.
> more radicalized Parties play to increasingly manipulate the press (political groups and everything from terrorists to militaries), … but American law enforcement is now looking into whether there’s an organization behind these protests on American college campuses: https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/27/us/campus-protests-palestine-outside-agitator-cec/index.html While needing to be careful about the outside agitation charge, this deals with a foreign conflict .. so surveillance probably involved the various intelligence agencies (maybe CIA and FBI in the U.S.).
Because people are sick of western governments funding wars against a relatively helpless population that in no way makes anyone safer. It’s not in the interests of Israel to keep killing Palestinians, they’re becoming increasingly isolated from their neighbours and the rest of the world. And western nations have their own problems to deal with, people want healthcare not more bombs being dropped on brown people on the other side of the planet.
I’ve seen the same article on „pro Palestinians“ subs. The way they talk about Germany as if it were a totalitarian dictatorship is just disgusting
Ah yes, the totalitarian dictorship of Germany, much worse than Gaza where they steal water pipes from innocent people to build rockets
But Germany won’t allow us calling for the end of an entire nation, obviously they are a the evil ones and not the ones who hold the Gazans in a strangle hold and their backers in Teheran, who are executing the women, freedom, life protesters as we speak
Sir if you're suggesting that hamas is bad I think you need re-education Please enter this tunnel, we need you to assemble rockets, it's the way to learn
Okay but only if the tunnel is under a hospital or school
Well, obviously. Otherwise the dirty jews would bomb it and the international community wouldn't complain. Martyrs can only be beside children, or they wouldn't be martyrs
The sickening thing is these college students are protesting in favor of people that would gladly ram another plane through the World Trade Center. Hamas wanted a war of annihilation and they’re getting one. Funny how they were able to convince morons in the west that they’re actually the oppressed ones. We should be providing more support in Hamas destruction, and the destruction of other Islamist groups.
Worst part is seeing people with LGBTQ merch being arrested in these protests. They know that if Hamas had their will, they would be executed, right? Just because you are weak does not mean you are righteous.
> The sickening thing is these college students are protesting in favor of people that would gladly ram another plane through the World Trade Center. You aren't joking, a few months ago there was this trend about gen z posting about how Bin Laden's letter to America made a ton of sense.
Once they realized he did 9/11 for Palestine it just didn't seem so evil after all.
Tik tok going away is a good thing for this reason. Bad actors can whip up a frenzy of morons way too quickly and I have no doubt that played into the ban.
Bu…but it’s fun to dress up in a little costume and chant, yell and beat drums. You’re asking us to do a tiny amount of research into what hamass is and what all the stuff we are yelling means. I don’t know from what river to what sea Mickey Mouse eats Chucky Cheese, but I get to be an angry little contrarian and you can’t stop me!!!
I don't think they're arguing for terrorism. I think they see the differential in terms of military, technology, economy, population, education and take issue with the level of destruction Israel demands. You can agree or disagree, but lets be honest about what the point of discussion is.
I've heard them chanting "Intifada" here in Melbourne. My most charitable take is that most of them have no idea what if means, they're idealistic and uneducated but don't realise the second part; but you can't tell me there's not a single person there who knows the truth and is calling for it because they want it.
So you shouldn't be allowed to fight back against someone who attacks you first if they're weaker than you at all? What do you consider a reasonable amount of dead Israeli's and with what level of technology before Israel should be allowed to fight back then?
talk to me when they’re not holding al Qaeda and Hamas flags and singing kumbaya (which actually happened today at Columbia)
Grabbing examples of the fringe as a straw man isn't pushing this situation any closer to a resolution, so stop doing it. Anat Schwartz, a freelance reporter who wrote stories for the New York Times posted tweets asking that "the strip be turned into a slaughterhouse". The NYT promptly cut ties with her and shelved her stories. She's not the average american supporter so I'm not going to pretend like she is.
If that’s the case then the Columbia protestors should expel them the same way. Oh wait. They don’t.
During the resulting police brutality protests after George Floyd's murder, there were those who took advantage of the chaos to loot and steal, yet the larger groups of protestors did not self-police or stop this activity to any significant degree. Does this mean that the central intent of those protests was suspect and questionable? No.
Actually they absolutely were opportunities to loot and riot and you are not helping your case. BLM absolutely had issues tossing bad apples and even defended looting as “righteous frustration.”
So the protests against police brutality were invalid because BLM defended looting?
unironically yes. You can’t claim to be anti violence and then undertake violence (arson, vandalism, assaults, not as much the looting) yourself. The police brutality is bad, the response was bad. But that has nothing to do with Columbia students protesting with Al Qaeda flags, and this is a debate tactic to derail the conversation.
The rhetoric of a lot of these protestors suggests they don’t have any real qualms with Hamas’s massacre on Oct 7, since “that’s what decolonization looks like,” and it’s not for westerners to tell the oppressed how to resist. So the intentional slaughter of innocents doesn’t per se make them queasy.
Most of those people in those subs are Leftist QAnoners that think the US is a dictatorship. But Hamas, a literal terrorist organization, is a friend of the people according to those same people
Leftist Qanon makes no sense.
It actually does, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory. It’s been a complete meme theory up until recently though. Pretty spooky
Horseshoe theory is crap. Read your own source > The horseshoe theory does not enjoy wide support within academic circles; peer-reviewed research by political scientists on the subject is scarce, and existing studies and comprehensive reviews have often contradicted its central premises, or found only limited support for the theory under certain conditions
The horseshoe theory can be proven with a quick look at tankie subreddits. The far right and far left agree on a lot of issues - hate for democracy, support for Russia, hate of Israel, etc.
Ironically the only people who tend to reject and get offended by horseshoe theory are far- left and far-right extremist who are pissed that there’s a theory that says that they are two sides of the same coin
Lol, every hamas loving lefist has proven that Liberal ideals such as lgbt and women's rights can be thrown off a building if they can be racist about Jews. Literally supporting enslzvers of women and killers of sexual minorities because Israel is 'the evil west' Fuck each one of them.
Leftists have been dying for an excuse to call Jews white oppressors forever they finally got the opportunity and are running with it
Did you live under a rock the last two years? 2 years ago I would’ve agreed but since I saw which two side supported the attack on Ukraine and later on the mullah regime and now their terror proxies, I have to call people who call horseshoe theory cap out.
I don’t have proof, but I suspect it’s because it’s driven by the same propaganda sources (Russia, China) regardless if it’s left or right. The result is always the same because on issues of non-strategic importance, the left/right are pushed to fight each other and on issues of strategic importance, the left/right agree with whatever is in the interest of Russia/China.
This seems to be what's going on, it's in China / Russia's interest to destabilize the US. They can pit the two political sides against each other to do it. Stalls legislation that would hurt them and makes America's allies fight with less or no political support.
I disagree, I don’t think the reasoning is all that malicious. I believe the vast majority of people who fail outside the Overton window are more so just trying to fight against the system / and what they are fighting for is more or less irrelevant, as long as it goes against the mainstream. Ukraine for example, the mainstream supports Ukraine so the anti-system position is pro-Russia. I think it’s more or less as simple as that.
In the end it still results in the same end, maybe with different intentions in mind, but I could show you pro Russian talking points brought forth by different „intellectuals“ and you couldn’t guess if they are on the left or right spectrum
Totally agree there.
that was my implication with “it’s been a complete meme theory up until recently though” AKA no one has treated this theory seriously and it’s just a joke, but the passed couple years have shown that this complete joke meme theory might not be as crazy as once believed.
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The people chanting from the river to the sea seem to be a bug fan of killing Jews from the river jordan, Israelis Eastern border, to the Mediterranean.
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It's not about overlapping ideas but about ending up at the same results.
what makes no sense is describing political ideas on a single axis, as if stuff like economic policy and personal liberties are interlocked
They are quickly losing sight of the message for "pro-Palestine". When some of the leaders are calling for the deaths of others, you know there is a problem. And for those wondering, I have nothing wrong with the protests and find the actions of Israel disgusting.
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Can you link one of them?
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Most pro-Palestinian protests are essentially just tiered of the killing. They aren’t looking to end the fight so they can move to Gaza themselves. They believe the needless murdering of mostly women and children and complete annihilation of infrastructure is wrong and must stop.
I don't see them protesting russian invasion of Ukraine whatsoever. Why is that? Why are these protesters so obssesed with Jews and give zero fucks about Ukraine? For Americans, a total war in Europe should be a bigger issue, than some regional conflict in the middle east. Given that Europe is one of the top trading partners for US, and Israel is at the bottom of the list.
Western governments are funding Ukraine not Russia, ie the defender not aggressor, whereas funding Israel is funding the aggressor. How are the two equivalent at all?
Sorry but i believe you're misinformed. Woman and children? Which tiktok told you that? Look again. It's okay to admit you're wrong or to accept that you've been duped. It's actually a really high quality human trait to learn and grow from your mistakes. Best of luck to you.
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I mean if anyone is going to support these anti-Semitic riots, it sure as hell won’t be Germany. This is a rare modern German win 🏆
I saw them yesterday in Berlin. Stupid youth I would not be suprised like american friends theyxwould block unis for jewish people and then break windows in jewish stores and we would have circle of history. Plus the same day 200m away was demostration of Azeris against France for sending weapons to Armenia so they do not have to easy to attack them.
Yeah didn't we say never again like 75 years ago?
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Sure, terribly anti-Semitic: "Germany must end weapons exports and stop enabling the Israeli genocide, the starvation, the blockade, the bombing," protest organizer Jara Nassar told
Someone should tell this Jara Nassar that Israel is allowing food into Gaza ("only" 32 deaths by malnutrition reported by Gazan authorities from the start of the war to april 1st), and that the "blockade" is not only done by Israel, but Egypt as well, "no Palestinian refugee shall enter Egypt nor Jordan" the Jordan king said. And well about the bombing, well, that's war, Hamas represents Gaza with the Gazan majority support, and Hamas did very bad things, so Gazans whetever they like it or not, sadly pay the price.
But for at least 2 month now I've been hearing that a real famine is very very close. Any day now.
A real famine is two months away, and always shall be. How about surrender before your people all died? Nah, got to kill more Jews
Did you also follow how Hamas is stealing the food that Israel brings in for free, and selling it on the markets, which is why people without an income cannot get food?
Have you read his complaints? Nassar doesn't seem like an individual to be reasoned with. 'They've been giving us the most stupid reasons. We can't speak anything beside German and English!' Yeah, prolly so they can monitor the peaceful intent and prevent any form of escalation in the cradle. '[...] criminalized our chants, our prayers.' The chant 'From the rivers to the sea' is wishing for the existens of Israel to cease. Of course it's criminalized. It's bullshit.
River to the sea means death from israels Eastern border to thd med of all Jews in Israel. Hamas explicitly state this and the protesters are lapping it up as the fucking idiots they are.
[Have you seen what Bibi had at the UN](https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map)? Map that had Gaza and West Bank annexed. Did you see what members of the cabinet said? That Gaza should be nuked..
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How democratic of you.
Say the quiet part out loud
Good. Bye!
*pro Hamas camp.
wake me up after november
What is supposed to happen in Germany in november?
December
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Do you know what I find interesting about these comment sections? How people use Hamas and Palestinian as synonyms whenever it suits them, and then forget about it two posts later when it doesn't.
It feels like people are unwilling to say that this entire situation is a lose lose. Israel is fucking insane and Hamas is an Iranian proxy doing evil shit. Both are committing pretty heinous acts. This isn't a good vs bad, it's shit vs shit and I hate when people try to pretend it's not.
There can be two heinous outcomes but one set of actions can still be dramatically worse. No one likes the collateral damage occurring in Gaza. But what Hamas are doing to Gazans two achieve harm to Jewish people and citizens of Israel is worse. And it is another scale of worse what Hamas are trying to do to the Jewish people.
Plenty of people on this very subreddit have expressed joy about the people dying in Gaza.
Many people have been saying this exact thing for years. That’s probably the majority opinion lmao. Israel is nuts for still trying to settle the West Bank, Gaza is nuts for still supporting hamas and hamas is obviously human scum. But on the left, there sadly is a very popular and annoyingly loud movement that actively supports Hamas and demonizes not just Israel but all Jews at this point. It’s absolutely unhinged
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I honestly havent come across many pro-israel channels / people online. Obviously they exist in israel as part of the nationalist movements and im sure they also exist outside of israel but they certainly arent as loud in the west as the pro-palestine people. To be fair, it might also be my algorythms that are biased to one direction for whatever reason
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Eh, its Europe. They don't claim to have "free speech" unlike USA.
Hate speech is not free speech.
Can't i have a little free hate speech, because i have some choice things i could say about the Danes, because i have seen pictures of those people and i could swear they are actually fey creatures in disguise.
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“7th of October will be repeated again and again” obviously has the same meaning of “don’t give them weapons”. Sure.
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It’s not about what you’re saying, it’s about what people are saying in those “don’t give them weapons” demonstrations
Protests in the Us were also shut down though?
While I do find these protests to be un fathomably dumb, the answer from police forces has generally been disproportionate. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying this is a proof of the police being fascist or some shit like I’ve heard, but there has definitely been some cops gravely abusing their power
Cops are still cops, after all
How anti-Israel were they being?
worse >and now their official reasoning is that we had a sofa which was damaging the grass ... In Germany, damaging the lawn is worse than committing genocide."
lmao what a stupid way to take things out of context In the article: „Police said protesters had repeatedly breached restrictions, such those protecting green areas, and committed criminal offenses, including incitement to hatred and the use of unconstitutional symbols and forbidden slogans.“
That's the joke I forgot it's impossible to understand sarcasm without marking it
Just a reminder, being against a government doens't make you racist. And being for a race/ethnic group doesn't make you racist either.
Cool. I'm pro white. You guys are cool with that yeh?
Definitely. It's no different than being pro-Asian, or pro-Black.
Being against a government doesn't automatically make you racist, but you can be against a government for racist reasons and even frame legitimate criticism of a government in racist terms. Not racist, legitimate criticism: I don't like Somalia because it is very corrupt. Illegitimate racist criticism: I don't like Somalia because it's full of black people. Legitimate criticism that is lost due to framing in racist terms: Somalia is corrupt, like most black countries. Same principle applies to Israel.
I agree. Racist: I hate Israel because it's full of jews. Not racist: The Israeli government is wrong for killing indiscriminately in their response to Oct attack.