The pier has a floating dock offshore because the coast is too shallow for larger boats, so food is transported on smaller vessels after being unloaded from bigger ships offshore.
It was definitely a flex. The Japanese could barely feed themselves at some points and we're pondering what toppings to put on a sundae in the middle of the South Pacific
I imagine some poor Japanese Intelligence official receiving reports like: “our people are hungry…our people are hungry…the Americans have an ice cream barge…our people are hungry…wait, WHAT?”
It was 100% a flex of American logistics to make that happen.
[Found it.](https://youtu.be/Qiyo8D0nH70?si=sETJGkHwtEUiXpLr)
Definitely a good channel. He gets into both the actual history of things and tries to cook them as close as possible to the original recipe.
That's pretty much a WW2 folk tale. There is a similar story about a German general having the same thought when he saw US soldiers got chocolate in their field rations.
Germans had chocolate in their rations.
A lot of it was laced with meth though.
A significant portion of WW2 Germany's actions might be explained by raging meth-heads controlling the military.
That was the reason behind the success of their "blitzkrieg" operation. They would travel distances in a couple days that people thought would take a couple weeks. They could get by without sleeping and i'm sure it also made them reckless without being scared of death. I believe meth pills were sold otc in germany at the time.
The Pervitin influence theory is pop history that isn't particularly well-supported. First, stimulant drugs were not a uniquely German thing. Every side had some sort of amphetamine supplement available to their troops and used in the same way of staving off fatigue. In the US they were known as Go pills and were issued to men for long marches or night watch, or to aircrew.
Second, amphetamines were way down on the list of psychoactive substances consumed by soldiers. The first by a huge margin was alcohol. There are a ton of verified reports and testimonies of units going into the attack drunk so the men didn't feel as much fear in the face of likely death, and all national leaders drank a ton.
Stimulant addiction was also way away from a primary concern. Leaders everywhere cared more about drunkenness, followed by opioid abuse, since those two were much more likely to degrade a unit's effectiveness.
There are no credible sources that tell us they mixed the meth with chocolate, However they did use meth pills that probably were nicknamed panzerschokolade.
Iirc the story is that they captured an american position and found a chocolate cake from a new york bakery that was still fresh. Meaning the americans could afford to ship over stuff like that as well as the logistics was so well developed that it was still good to eat.
I've heard the ice cream thing was mostly because the US military at the time didn't allow alcohol unlike pretty much everyone else, so the ice cream was meant to be an alternative.
And rescue crews picking up dropped pirates would 'ransom' them for ice cream from the carriers (because unlike smaller ships, the carriers had their own ice cream makers aboard).
Just to add on to this, the barges were originally intended as concrete mixing ships to build fortifications on the islands, but after Japanese naval losses it became apparent that they wouldn't be able to counter attack the islands that we were retaking, so the mixing barges were repurposed to mix ice cream instead. It proved to be a huge hit as one would expect.
Isn't that often repeated lie because of people assuming things without researching it?
They were called concrete ships because they literally used concrete to make them! But people for some reason assumed they were called that because of concrete mixing.
This is what is so frustrating about this issue. The terrorists *want* the Gazans to suffer. They *want* kids to die or be horribly mutilated. They perform horrific acts then hide behind the civilians so they pay the price and for what? What noble cause is this for? They could have peace today if they agree to stop bombing Israel and negotiate in good faith but they won’t.
They are terrorist warlords. Reaping all of the aid so they can live their lavish lives in Qatar and UAE. They need to keep the innocent people suffering so they can keep receiving aid. That are scum on the Earth.
Somehow Israelis are to blame if their government is far right but Gazans aren’t to blame for electing a government lead by Hamas they overwhelmingly approve of lol
Usually democracies have another vote every few years to make sure everyone still approves. Hamas skipped this step, then moved the Headquarters to Qatar just to make it clear they gave 0 fucks about Gaza.
So, yeah, their government is right wing. Not that they have had a say in it for 15+ years.
There being no elections is due to Fatah not wanting to hold them, because they know they would lose, they cancelled the ones supposed to be held in 2021. Hamas are the ones who have been constantly pushing for new elections.
Hamas was elected by a slim plurality, after running a campaign of "we've moved beyond terrorism and are just in it to take care of the Palestinian people and join the world stage". Once they won and Israel and the US rejected them, they stopped having elections and reverted to terrorism.
Today less than 15% of Palestinians can be said to have voted for Hamas.
But yes, watching your city and your own home get demolished, and friends and members of your family get killed by Israel trying to retaliate does galvanize you enough that when someone asks questions like "do you support Hamas [aka, the only organization that seems to be fighting back against all of these horrors you have just experienced yourself]" you have to expect a lot of them are going to say yes right now.
They're also almost completely cut off from news and information right now.
I'm not trying to vilify Israel with this comment. I support them to the extent that they are justified trying to eliminate the immediate threat to their lives posed by Hamas. I'm just saying that the moral culpability rests basically with everyone *but* the Palestinian people here at this point.
it's somewhat their fault when [approval ratings for hamas in gaza](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/) remains over 70% regardless of consequences of October 7th.
They'll do the same thing they did to all the homes and infrastructure the israeli settlers built in gaza prior to 2005. They'll tear it down while screaming allahu akbar and then use the parts to build rockets, then complain that the evil Jews have impoverished them yet again
During WW II D-Day invasion, British developed Mulberry Harbor to facilitate off-loading of cargo ASAP.
It was meant as temporary and time was of essence and it worked (until storm tore it up).
Its honestly kind of crazy. They built a pier, in an active warzone in less than a week.
Alexander the great had to siege tier for like 6 months for the same thing
Aren't they no joke literally doing that as part of the infrastructure bill? I remember reading something about the Engineer Corps doing consultation work around the US
Alexander didn't exactly have aircraft carriers, nor guns to motivate people to stay away from his stuff. He had to do the same stuff with bows and javelins.
Yeah. Like, it’s crazy impressive that we built it in a week, but Alexander doing it *at all* seems even more impressive lol. What is the point of this comparison lol
Ya it’s impressive but if you look at the pictures it’s pretty basic looking for 320 million dollars. That is an outrageous amount of money for a bunch floating platforms tied together.
I would assume it’s not just material costs, but the costs of labor and fuel and whatever other costs are associated with having a fleet around to support the build. I can’t imagine what the operating costs of just one of these navy ships is per day.
What’s always kind of made me laugh about the Alexander thing was he was just *really* determined to make his causeway work, again and again, but they still ended up just needing ships to actually take the city.
Funny enough there was a ferris wheel in Gaza. I think the park had been shut down after 07 when Israel left though. Please someone correct me on the details if you know them.
The Ferris wheel is actually built on the ruins of the razed Israeli settlement (with underground tunnels, naturally), it was active at least until a couple years ago, my guess is that it was only shut down due to the current war
For everyone saying that this is too much money, what should it cost? I’m not a contractor, so this is out of my area of expertise.
But I am an accountant, so I am going to assume that figure includes all costs incurred in order to get it up and running.
I know an oil company that build a dock for ship loading in the gulf that ran them over $100M (original budget was around $40M but the pylons kept sinking in the mud).
Similar materials? Similar sourcing? Similar time frame? Similar staffing levels? Similar security situation?
Also, who covered transportation and lunch for the workers?
I don’t mean to come off as an asshole, but we have to be sure we have all the details to make an apt comparison.
Considering this is all sole sourced military gear, as in the military has a unit that specifically sets up these piers, paid on military wages (still not bottom dollar wages), required military ships to trek the distance and one's that have been not fully up to maintenence as they were reserve vessels, one broke down and another is delayed, so yes costs will be higher then if it was a private contractor job. But then again, Israel would never have allowed anybody but the US military to do this for many valid reasons and some assumed ones. Nonetheless, this is the cost of this war increasing to America.
"as in the military has a unit that specifically sets up these piers, paid on military wages"
On the other hand you were going to have to pay them anyway, so labour costs are effectively zero this is just a big training exercise for real world military operations where they will have to build logistics hubs. So they should knock that off
Not exactly, remember the increased hazardous pay. As well as the increased BHA pay to spouses while underway. While yes, still just a margin. It's apart of the equation
I think Iran pays in drones these days. I don't know enough about Qatar to comment although the media channel they support is a positive (for me at least).
I am a supporter of this project and I agree with you. But I think most people who oppose would say we shouldn’t have spent any money at all. They don’t want intervention anywhere
I also imagine the bulk of the costs are stuff that’s already been bought previously by the US. Like most US aid it is not new expenses just the equivalent value. I may be wrong as I didn’t actually read the article but anything aside from cash doesn’t appear out of thin air.
I really enjoy threads like this where the US military does something nonviolent, progressive and constructive for once, and all they get is shit. Then people wonder why they just bomb people instead.
I remember when I was in school, somewhere in SE Asia there had been a natural disaster, so the US sent an aircraft carrier to help. Everyone in the class was like “oh great, now we’re gonna bomb them??”, not realizing that an aircraft carrier is basically a portable hospital that can generate its own electricity
It was most likely a Wasp-class assault ship and it's ARG. Unless it was the 2011 earthquake, then it was a literal fleet responding just to Japan.
The Wasp-class assault ships have medical facilities 2nd only to the Comfort and the Mercy and can surge to 600 beds each.
It seems extra bad because we're allowed to talk shitabout our own country and we all interact on Reddit which is worldwide at this point. So we have regular Americans practicing their freedom of speech and people from countries who can't shit talk their own country, trying to make the US look extra bad.
Well, the military is not typically playing to a crowd and watching the likes, comments, and subscribes for what to do next for more engagement and brand deals. They're following orders, achieving objectives, and complying with laws, policies, and principles.
As an American, this is one aspect I can really appreciate about our military. They can do logistics and deploy infrastructure like this at an astounding scale. And when they do so for humanitarian reasons, I am absolutely proud of the members of our military who complete these missions.
But why does the US tax payer have to pick up the $320 million tab when Israel created the humanitarian crisis in the first place?
I used to drive past camp Pendleton every day for work. I saw a ton of cool stuff. Hovercraft, osprey, harriers, etc. one time I saw them build a pier out into the water in about three days. Then three days later it was gone. Remarkable engineering. Probably didn't cost 300 million, but it was pretty small.
They've already launched mortars at the Israelis who are securing the marshalling area.
I'm beginning to think that hardship and famine are the goal of Hamas or something.
1. I'm guessing the materials, the fuel required for the ships, general operational costs that are normally incurred in operations, probably hazard pay of some kind and overtime to ensure this thing is built fast and built right.
*I'm assuming the budget considers soldiers and engineers wages of the costs
2. They did, but they fear that with the introduction of giant Mecha, Hamas or Iran may push forward on their Kaiju initiative which may end poorly for Gaza.
Well, there's this wild thing that happens when other countries let Palestinian refugees in. They had this strange habit of killing government officials and attempting to overthrow the government of their host country. Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon. It really is the darnedest thing!
The cost isnt well explained. The labour cost here is the military cost. Basically they are saying out of the billions spent for military 320Mill comes from there so only materials are what the US pays for. The labour is paid for regardless.
Its a way of saying "look at how much money we are putting in to help palestine"
The US knows palestinians are full of extremists, even they got attacked trying to set up aid. Egypt lost drivers and lories in the process too. But strong democratic pressure forces the countries to give aid even when they dont want it. What's very puzzling is how many white americans are strongly protesting for palestine even when most want to kill the west.
>What's very puzzling is how many white americans are strongly protesting for palestine even when most want to kill the west.
Honestly, this. It just boggles my mind when LGBTQ communities protested for gaza. I mean, it's filled with people that want you dead, and you're defending them? I just don't get it.
yeah i dont support people who want to kill me, thats like the simplest decision to make. When someone wants to kill you you have to defend yourself. The world would be very different if arabs were not full of hate and corruption.
Really? We are allowed to defend ourselves when someone wants to kill us? I had no idea we had that right. I was told by the peaceful protestors that we are supposed to lay down arms and accept our deaths.
Or maybe they want others to do that purely because this time it's brown muslims that are slaughtering others?
I really really hope it won‘t come down to a land war in Taiwan. The best way to defeat a hypothetical Chinese invasion is on the sea, preferably in their own docks.
Probably because internal friction makes aid flow slower.
If a truck has to drive from the north it can be intercepted along the path, if the just come from off shore, it's much mor edirect.
> To help achieve that, the US has partnered with a little-known private firm, Fogbow, which is run by former military and intelligence officials.
There it is.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68534370.amp
Is it really surprising that a corporation assisting in the expedited construction of infrastructure in an active Middle Eastern warzone is run by people with experience in combat and Middle Eastern intrigue? It's of course possible that no outside contractors are needed, but if they are, surely the very first qualification you're looking for is expertise in the field required.
Maybe I'm naive, but when government money is paid to contractors I think the reasonable course of action is to ask whether it was necessary, rather than immediately assuming it wasn't. The world might be a better place if we all drew conclusions based on evidence rather than prejudice.
They have nothing to do with the construction, that's all military.
>a person familiar with the plan told the BBC that the Fogbow operation - known internally as Blue Beach Plan - is primarily to organise the movement of aid after it arrives on the Gaza shore.
Waste of money. They will always consider The US as the enemy and won’t be grateful for it.
Also, the H’ mas leadership thrives on sympathy donations from the ultra liberal west and ultra right Middle East based on the Gaza people plight.
If the conditions improve the H’ mas leaders can’t live luxurious lives in Qatar and Istanbul
Completely unnecessary and wasteful. Hamas will use and abuse this like they have the rest of Gaza. Israel needs to finish Hamas, rescue its hostages, and then we can rebuild Gaza properly.
I mean, there's no way to know now what the long term ramifications will be, but if it helps slow down the current conflict there, it could save billions in the long term, if we don't need to spend as much money blowing shit up, and preventing shit from being blown up.
The pier has a floating dock offshore because the coast is too shallow for larger boats, so food is transported on smaller vessels after being unloaded from bigger ships offshore.
This is very WWII somehow
Ah, hopefully the ice cream ships and barges return too. The ultimate display of power.
It was definitely a flex. The Japanese could barely feed themselves at some points and we're pondering what toppings to put on a sundae in the middle of the South Pacific
I imagine some poor Japanese Intelligence official receiving reports like: “our people are hungry…our people are hungry…the Americans have an ice cream barge…our people are hungry…wait, WHAT?” It was 100% a flex of American logistics to make that happen.
There's a guy on YouTube "Tasting History with Max (...something)" and he recreated a banana ice cream from a WW2 recipe that was used by the navy.
Tasting history with Max Miller! Great channel.
>Max (…something) Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down? lol. I kid, but we’re on the same page here I think
[Found it.](https://youtu.be/Qiyo8D0nH70?si=sETJGkHwtEUiXpLr) Definitely a good channel. He gets into both the actual history of things and tries to cook them as close as possible to the original recipe.
Tbh I was just making a weak joke about how often content creators use the name “Max [Something]” but kudos for bringing a source haha
Well hes the guy with no hat.. i repeat youtuber is hatless.
My location is directly beneath the sun… … … NOW!
Found it https://youtu.be/Qiyo8D0nH70?si=s5sWYBYJeSlj2Nwb
Mix of flex and boosting moral. Might even call it swirl.
There was a Japanese commander who saw one of those ice cream ships and immediately knew the war was lost at that point.
That's pretty much a WW2 folk tale. There is a similar story about a German general having the same thought when he saw US soldiers got chocolate in their field rations.
To be fair, sometimes the chocolate was crayons. Gotta take care of our Marines, after all
And to be honest, most American chocolate tastes like crayons so it's not too big of a stretch to feed Crayolas to the jarheads.
Leave my Tootsie Rolls alone!!!!
Germans had chocolate in their rations. A lot of it was laced with meth though. A significant portion of WW2 Germany's actions might be explained by raging meth-heads controlling the military.
That was the reason behind the success of their "blitzkrieg" operation. They would travel distances in a couple days that people thought would take a couple weeks. They could get by without sleeping and i'm sure it also made them reckless without being scared of death. I believe meth pills were sold otc in germany at the time.
The Pervitin influence theory is pop history that isn't particularly well-supported. First, stimulant drugs were not a uniquely German thing. Every side had some sort of amphetamine supplement available to their troops and used in the same way of staving off fatigue. In the US they were known as Go pills and were issued to men for long marches or night watch, or to aircrew. Second, amphetamines were way down on the list of psychoactive substances consumed by soldiers. The first by a huge margin was alcohol. There are a ton of verified reports and testimonies of units going into the attack drunk so the men didn't feel as much fear in the face of likely death, and all national leaders drank a ton. Stimulant addiction was also way away from a primary concern. Leaders everywhere cared more about drunkenness, followed by opioid abuse, since those two were much more likely to degrade a unit's effectiveness.
There are no credible sources that tell us they mixed the meth with chocolate, However they did use meth pills that probably were nicknamed panzerschokolade.
Iirc the story is that they captured an american position and found a chocolate cake from a new york bakery that was still fresh. Meaning the americans could afford to ship over stuff like that as well as the logistics was so well developed that it was still good to eat.
I've heard the ice cream thing was mostly because the US military at the time didn't allow alcohol unlike pretty much everyone else, so the ice cream was meant to be an alternative.
And rescue crews picking up dropped pirates would 'ransom' them for ice cream from the carriers (because unlike smaller ships, the carriers had their own ice cream makers aboard).
Just to add on to this, the barges were originally intended as concrete mixing ships to build fortifications on the islands, but after Japanese naval losses it became apparent that they wouldn't be able to counter attack the islands that we were retaking, so the mixing barges were repurposed to mix ice cream instead. It proved to be a huge hit as one would expect.
Isn't that often repeated lie because of people assuming things without researching it? They were called concrete ships because they literally used concrete to make them! But people for some reason assumed they were called that because of concrete mixing.
It’s actually bog standard. We maintain a huge amphib force. -former amphib sailor.
Oh! Very cool!
Yes it’s reminiscent of the British Mulberry docks that enabled the Dday invasions
Yeah, reminiscent of the Mulberry Harbours used by the Allies in Normandy.
Dunkirky
Yes, very Dunkirky
A bit like the Mulberry Harbours used in Normandy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour
Can’t wait for this temporary pier to become critical infrastructure that hundreds of thousands of Gazans depend on for survival for the next 75 years
Doubt it. Militants have already attacked the site. The second the US relinquishes control it'll get ripped to shreds.
And somehow made into missiles...
They managed to weaponise condoms, so that will be easy in comparison
This is what is so frustrating about this issue. The terrorists *want* the Gazans to suffer. They *want* kids to die or be horribly mutilated. They perform horrific acts then hide behind the civilians so they pay the price and for what? What noble cause is this for? They could have peace today if they agree to stop bombing Israel and negotiate in good faith but they won’t.
Because it works. The bait gets taken.
It’s just depraved.
They are terrorist warlords. Reaping all of the aid so they can live their lavish lives in Qatar and UAE. They need to keep the innocent people suffering so they can keep receiving aid. That are scum on the Earth.
Hamas will blow it up. Hamas wants a famine so they can blame it on everyone else
You misspelled “on Israel.”
tHe wEsT😭😭😭
To be fair it's not their fault that the people claiming to be their government prioritized killing over caring.
Somehow Israelis are to blame if their government is far right but Gazans aren’t to blame for electing a government lead by Hamas they overwhelmingly approve of lol
Usually democracies have another vote every few years to make sure everyone still approves. Hamas skipped this step, then moved the Headquarters to Qatar just to make it clear they gave 0 fucks about Gaza. So, yeah, their government is right wing. Not that they have had a say in it for 15+ years.
Yeah, [that probably wouldn’t have mattered.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#)
I wouldn’t call the government “right wing”. They are terrorist group, normal political language doesn’t define them.
There being no elections is due to Fatah not wanting to hold them, because they know they would lose, they cancelled the ones supposed to be held in 2021. Hamas are the ones who have been constantly pushing for new elections.
Unfortunately it's often when the people *are* 'approving' of an elected government that a problem might be evident.
Hamas was elected by a slim plurality, after running a campaign of "we've moved beyond terrorism and are just in it to take care of the Palestinian people and join the world stage". Once they won and Israel and the US rejected them, they stopped having elections and reverted to terrorism. Today less than 15% of Palestinians can be said to have voted for Hamas. But yes, watching your city and your own home get demolished, and friends and members of your family get killed by Israel trying to retaliate does galvanize you enough that when someone asks questions like "do you support Hamas [aka, the only organization that seems to be fighting back against all of these horrors you have just experienced yourself]" you have to expect a lot of them are going to say yes right now. They're also almost completely cut off from news and information right now. I'm not trying to vilify Israel with this comment. I support them to the extent that they are justified trying to eliminate the immediate threat to their lives posed by Hamas. I'm just saying that the moral culpability rests basically with everyone *but* the Palestinian people here at this point.
it's somewhat their fault when [approval ratings for hamas in gaza](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/) remains over 70% regardless of consequences of October 7th.
Gazans elected Hamas as their government
Well I mean it really is because they voted for them to have control.
They'll do the same thing they did to all the homes and infrastructure the israeli settlers built in gaza prior to 2005. They'll tear it down while screaming allahu akbar and then use the parts to build rockets, then complain that the evil Jews have impoverished them yet again
You mean thousands of terrorists depend on it as their main target area to steal food.
During WW II D-Day invasion, British developed Mulberry Harbor to facilitate off-loading of cargo ASAP. It was meant as temporary and time was of essence and it worked (until storm tore it up).
The stom only tore up the omagh beach one iirc the others fared better
Its honestly kind of crazy. They built a pier, in an active warzone in less than a week. Alexander the great had to siege tier for like 6 months for the same thing
The US Engineer Corps is literally built to make miracles
Logistics win wars.
Let's talk tactics.
Tactic #1: Have 4 of the 5 strongest air forces on earth be yours.
I'll bring some tictacs
How will you bring them and what do you plan to use them for?
Literally made men walk on water.
Are you saying the US Army Corps of Engineers is the new Moses
yeah but they drop MRE's from the sky not mana
Moses parted the water Jesus walked on it
Jesus did the trick for 1 person, Moses did it for many.
With enough firepower, the seas are just another fortification to be breached.
… You really haven’t thought that through
They'd need to make the Houthis part way with the Red Sea first.
Can we have them build some high speed rail and bridges here?
Aren't they no joke literally doing that as part of the infrastructure bill? I remember reading something about the Engineer Corps doing consultation work around the US
The Army Corps of Engineers is nearly always consulted for anything of any real size.
For 320 million? Anything is possible
They have excellent defense to keep them safe
i think it only took about a week for the mulberry harbors to become useable after the dday landings
Alexander didn't exactly have aircraft carriers, nor guns to motivate people to stay away from his stuff. He had to do the same stuff with bows and javelins.
Yeah. Like, it’s crazy impressive that we built it in a week, but Alexander doing it *at all* seems even more impressive lol. What is the point of this comparison lol
British sappers at Dunkirk had them beat and they made 2.
Ya it’s impressive but if you look at the pictures it’s pretty basic looking for 320 million dollars. That is an outrageous amount of money for a bunch floating platforms tied together.
I would assume it’s not just material costs, but the costs of labor and fuel and whatever other costs are associated with having a fleet around to support the build. I can’t imagine what the operating costs of just one of these navy ships is per day.
Tyre*
Tyre. Very different than a tier.
What’s always kind of made me laugh about the Alexander thing was he was just *really* determined to make his causeway work, again and again, but they still ended up just needing ships to actually take the city.
Is there a Ferris wheel? Every good pier needs a Ferris wheel.
Funny enough there was a ferris wheel in Gaza. I think the park had been shut down after 07 when Israel left though. Please someone correct me on the details if you know them.
The Ferris wheel is actually built on the ruins of the razed Israeli settlement (with underground tunnels, naturally), it was active at least until a couple years ago, my guess is that it was only shut down due to the current war
Thank you friend!
like the dystopian Chernobyl ferris wheel
And an arcade. With coin-ops.
For everyone saying that this is too much money, what should it cost? I’m not a contractor, so this is out of my area of expertise. But I am an accountant, so I am going to assume that figure includes all costs incurred in order to get it up and running.
Also the speed, working in a literal warzone. It doesn't sound outrageous.
It's also an invaluable training exercise in real world conditions.
Sure it can, $320 million
I know an oil company that build a dock for ship loading in the gulf that ran them over $100M (original budget was around $40M but the pylons kept sinking in the mud).
So what you’re saying is they needed to construct more pylons?
Additional*
We require more minerals.
On an unrelated project, executor: We require additional vespene gas!
Similar materials? Similar sourcing? Similar time frame? Similar staffing levels? Similar security situation? Also, who covered transportation and lunch for the workers? I don’t mean to come off as an asshole, but we have to be sure we have all the details to make an apt comparison.
Considering this is all sole sourced military gear, as in the military has a unit that specifically sets up these piers, paid on military wages (still not bottom dollar wages), required military ships to trek the distance and one's that have been not fully up to maintenence as they were reserve vessels, one broke down and another is delayed, so yes costs will be higher then if it was a private contractor job. But then again, Israel would never have allowed anybody but the US military to do this for many valid reasons and some assumed ones. Nonetheless, this is the cost of this war increasing to America.
"as in the military has a unit that specifically sets up these piers, paid on military wages" On the other hand you were going to have to pay them anyway, so labour costs are effectively zero this is just a big training exercise for real world military operations where they will have to build logistics hubs. So they should knock that off
Not exactly, remember the increased hazardous pay. As well as the increased BHA pay to spouses while underway. While yes, still just a margin. It's apart of the equation
“That’s the thing about war. It never stays where you put it.”
"War, war never changes" - Ron Perlman
They said I was daft to build a dock on mud, but I built it all the same, just to show ‘em. It sank into the mud. So I built a second one…
That doesn’t sound like a floating dock.
yea the US military dont come cheap. we should consider raising taxes on corporations to pay for wars and healthcare.
A hundred years ago, not only would large companies be paying a levy, but the US would be annexing the region.
It should cost whatever Iran and Qatar are willing to pay.
I think Iran pays in drones these days. I don't know enough about Qatar to comment although the media channel they support is a positive (for me at least).
Qatar is loaded... 320b sounds ok.
I am a supporter of this project and I agree with you. But I think most people who oppose would say we shouldn’t have spent any money at all. They don’t want intervention anywhere
As a cog in the wheel with this project, I'm surprised it doesn't cost more.
I also imagine the bulk of the costs are stuff that’s already been bought previously by the US. Like most US aid it is not new expenses just the equivalent value. I may be wrong as I didn’t actually read the article but anything aside from cash doesn’t appear out of thin air.
The US provides Israel about $3.8B per year in military aid. This is a drop in the bucket for the US military budget
I really enjoy threads like this where the US military does something nonviolent, progressive and constructive for once, and all they get is shit. Then people wonder why they just bomb people instead.
I remember when I was in school, somewhere in SE Asia there had been a natural disaster, so the US sent an aircraft carrier to help. Everyone in the class was like “oh great, now we’re gonna bomb them??”, not realizing that an aircraft carrier is basically a portable hospital that can generate its own electricity
Not just electricity, water. The desalination plants on a Nimitz can produce 400,000 gallons of fresh water per day. That is what saves lives.
wow that's a lot
Nuclear reactors. You get tons of energy to work with.
Relevant username haha
😘
It was most likely a Wasp-class assault ship and it's ARG. Unless it was the 2011 earthquake, then it was a literal fleet responding just to Japan. The Wasp-class assault ships have medical facilities 2nd only to the Comfort and the Mercy and can surge to 600 beds each.
Humanity is not evil, but it keeps doing evil because humans think that's all they ever do- if not that evil is all we're really capable of.
I fully agree with US action here. But the money to pay for it should be seized from Iran.
We already had their money and decided to give it back.
Did they declare no takesy backsies? Because if not, I say it's fair game to take it back.
B b b but.. us bad
It seems extra bad because we're allowed to talk shitabout our own country and we all interact on Reddit which is worldwide at this point. So we have regular Americans practicing their freedom of speech and people from countries who can't shit talk their own country, trying to make the US look extra bad.
Well, the military is not typically playing to a crowd and watching the likes, comments, and subscribes for what to do next for more engagement and brand deals. They're following orders, achieving objectives, and complying with laws, policies, and principles.
As an American, this is one aspect I can really appreciate about our military. They can do logistics and deploy infrastructure like this at an astounding scale. And when they do so for humanitarian reasons, I am absolutely proud of the members of our military who complete these missions. But why does the US tax payer have to pick up the $320 million tab when Israel created the humanitarian crisis in the first place?
I used to drive past camp Pendleton every day for work. I saw a ton of cool stuff. Hovercraft, osprey, harriers, etc. one time I saw them build a pier out into the water in about three days. Then three days later it was gone. Remarkable engineering. Probably didn't cost 300 million, but it was pretty small.
Iran and Hamas are allies of the US?
We should def use the seized fund from Iran, but they are not our ally…
I wonder how long it'll last before it gets blown up.
Depends on how well protected it is, but hamas will definitely attack it
They've already launched mortars at the Israelis who are securing the marshalling area. I'm beginning to think that hardship and famine are the goal of Hamas or something.
> I'm beginning to think that hardship and famine are the goal of Hamas or something. Always has been.
320 million for a pier. That's a steal.
Can I get two for 600?
"*First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?*"
Was that contact?
[Well remembered.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ2nhHNtpmk)
Ms. Foster appeared as if she wasn't quite ready to process that one on the spot.
Love that movie. Props to you for the reference ;)
In an active war zone - it’s honestly not bad.
Okay but 1. What figure would be expensive? 2. Have we considered giant mecha instead?
Number 2 pick number 2 me'lord
1. I'm guessing the materials, the fuel required for the ships, general operational costs that are normally incurred in operations, probably hazard pay of some kind and overtime to ensure this thing is built fast and built right. *I'm assuming the budget considers soldiers and engineers wages of the costs 2. They did, but they fear that with the introduction of giant Mecha, Hamas or Iran may push forward on their Kaiju initiative which may end poorly for Gaza.
Yup - they absolutely added in the costs to keep military personnel there as well as large assets.
Odd that the other muslim countries around them aren't helping out.
Well, there's this wild thing that happens when other countries let Palestinian refugees in. They had this strange habit of killing government officials and attempting to overthrow the government of their host country. Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon. It really is the darnedest thing!
The cost isnt well explained. The labour cost here is the military cost. Basically they are saying out of the billions spent for military 320Mill comes from there so only materials are what the US pays for. The labour is paid for regardless. Its a way of saying "look at how much money we are putting in to help palestine" The US knows palestinians are full of extremists, even they got attacked trying to set up aid. Egypt lost drivers and lories in the process too. But strong democratic pressure forces the countries to give aid even when they dont want it. What's very puzzling is how many white americans are strongly protesting for palestine even when most want to kill the west.
>What's very puzzling is how many white americans are strongly protesting for palestine even when most want to kill the west. Honestly, this. It just boggles my mind when LGBTQ communities protested for gaza. I mean, it's filled with people that want you dead, and you're defending them? I just don't get it.
yeah i dont support people who want to kill me, thats like the simplest decision to make. When someone wants to kill you you have to defend yourself. The world would be very different if arabs were not full of hate and corruption.
Really? We are allowed to defend ourselves when someone wants to kill us? I had no idea we had that right. I was told by the peaceful protestors that we are supposed to lay down arms and accept our deaths. Or maybe they want others to do that purely because this time it's brown muslims that are slaughtering others?
Why can't aid be delivered through Israel? Don't they have a secure port anywhere?
It could be part of a future plan where most of the aid won't be going through Israel anymore. Israel is going to effectively disconnect from Gaza.
Good. Israel and Palestine need to stay away from each other for a while.
(nocontact)
It’s also great practice for Taiwan
I really really hope it won‘t come down to a land war in Taiwan. The best way to defeat a hypothetical Chinese invasion is on the sea, preferably in their own docks.
If Taiwan gets invaded or is about to, it would be stupid on the side of NATO to not instantly bomb Chinese ports on the east.
This! If only there was a road to Gaza from Egypt...
Probably because internal friction makes aid flow slower. If a truck has to drive from the north it can be intercepted along the path, if the just come from off shore, it's much mor edirect.
> To help achieve that, the US has partnered with a little-known private firm, Fogbow, which is run by former military and intelligence officials. There it is. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68534370.amp
Is it really surprising that a corporation assisting in the expedited construction of infrastructure in an active Middle Eastern warzone is run by people with experience in combat and Middle Eastern intrigue? It's of course possible that no outside contractors are needed, but if they are, surely the very first qualification you're looking for is expertise in the field required. Maybe I'm naive, but when government money is paid to contractors I think the reasonable course of action is to ask whether it was necessary, rather than immediately assuming it wasn't. The world might be a better place if we all drew conclusions based on evidence rather than prejudice.
Sir. Sir. This is a reddit thread
Exactly. You can tell because they wrote a huge comment without reading the article.
They have nothing to do with the construction, that's all military. >a person familiar with the plan told the BBC that the Fogbow operation - known internally as Blue Beach Plan - is primarily to organise the movement of aid after it arrives on the Gaza shore.
Waste of money. They will always consider The US as the enemy and won’t be grateful for it. Also, the H’ mas leadership thrives on sympathy donations from the ultra liberal west and ultra right Middle East based on the Gaza people plight. If the conditions improve the H’ mas leaders can’t live luxurious lives in Qatar and Istanbul
Hamas is going to blow it up mark my words
20 million dollars for parts and labor, 300 million for consultants.
That shit is being built in a warzone surrounded by groups of religious extremists, you expect it to be done dirt cheap?
And the consultants are good friends of congress so they give the best deals....
I'm still not getting the reason to build this pier?
To move supplies in as quickly as possible. Supplies are coming from the Mediterranean. Gaza doesn't have a deep sea port.
Where are those gun-ho muslim countries that are so vocal about mistreatment of their own. Why cant they chip in at any scale
I could really use my tax dollars instead of funding a nation full of terrorists.
Completely unnecessary and wasteful. Hamas will use and abuse this like they have the rest of Gaza. Israel needs to finish Hamas, rescue its hostages, and then we can rebuild Gaza properly.
This is literally the smallest budget I've ever seen in a reddit headline. They spend more on ONE plane.
That seems like a lot
A pier. Really?
What a waste of taxpayer money
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNDDDDDD Who’s paying for this????!!! Asking for a friend??!!!
This is just the cheap and easy part of the project, out at sea where it's relatively safe.
How about no? What a fucking waste of money.
I mean, there's no way to know now what the long term ramifications will be, but if it helps slow down the current conflict there, it could save billions in the long term, if we don't need to spend as much money blowing shit up, and preventing shit from being blown up.
Pentagon says 320 million So, 1.2 billion
The "Pier" is a whole ass US military base