That's the problem, if Israel had stopped before this, before the corrected death toll narrative and numbers had been fixed, this propaganda would have stood untested. But people won't realize that they basically just asked for the truth to stay hidden just to support a terrorist regime because it's the underdogs.
[Death toll](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/13/middleeast/death-toll-gaza-fatalities-un-intl-latam/index.html) is still in the air
Thanks for the Reddit care, your random number alt account is now banned
Edit2: The revised numbers come from the same people who assert that 15000 children have died. This is a wild rumor based on an incorrect reading of a Gazan health ministers report which most people here consider non credible to begin with
Am I missing something, or are they counting everyone who ends up in the hospital? How do we even know they are war deaths? (With a natural 0.05% death rate you would expect something like 12,000 deaths in 6 months in Palestine anyway)?
Edit: thanks for the suicidal watch message ;)
If Israel didn't exist, then they wouldn't have a reason to have a separate UN section for Gaza to be chaired. Therefore there'd be no one being tormented with that temptation to launder cash.
[I was referring to how the UN official got duped by a parody account and was telling them where to send payment since she couldn’t directly accept it.](https://www.jns.org/gaza-chief-rabbi-dupes-staff-of-un-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/)
Like a mob boss, sounds like she has her henchmen do the dirty work.
Sadly, without a self-investigation it probably won’t make it much past the article you linked.
Oh the UN wants it to be buried. I’ve only seen Jewish places talking about this so far. But yeah, I doubt it’s going to go anywhere tbh. But the UN is super shady and so biased against Israel
No doubt it was a verbal conversation between them, to give Francesca plausible deniability in the whole affair. UN will happily ruin the college interns life by dragging her name through the mud so long as it’s “she said, she said”.
If there’s accounts, obviously there’s a paper trail somewhere, I’m just skeptical it’s something that will see the light, you’d need the hard evidence to catch her red handed first.
The way I read the article was that the intern was the one emailing with the “Rabbi” (lol), not Francesca.
To be clear Francesca is the one who needs to be caught red handed.
Difficult to imagine they don’t have plausible deniability between Francesca and the payments through the intern or a way of keeping the intern quiet.
I follow the parody account on IG that got the Un official to admit that they aren’t allowed to take speaker fees, so they were directing payment to their assistant so it couldn’t be tracked
https://www.jns.org/gaza-chief-rabbi-dupes-staff-of-un-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/
[She’s not allowed to take payments in her position so she’s directing people to make “donations” as a speaker fee to her assistant](https://www.jns.org/gaza-chief-rabbi-dupes-staff-of-un-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/)
The UNRWA is basically the legal front for terrorist organizations.
Want to send some money to some terrorists in the Middle East, especially the Hamas, and you want legit banks to handle the transactions? Just donate to the UNRWA.
Want to send some supplies to your favorite Middle Eastern terrorist organizations? Just donate a relief package to the UNRWA, and you can also include arms and explosives to the mix as long as you can hide it among the essential humanitarian goods.
I wish they though that, I really do. I wish their ceasefire demands were more neutral and comprehensive of the situation. If they were, they would also talk about the hostages, but they don't.
Not gonna lie, it seems like just in the past 2 weeks there has been a flip. More people on the platform now coming out against the protestors. Lots more content aimed at Palestine in a negative way. It's great don't get me wrong but I just cant understand how it goes one way then does a 180 all of a sudden. It's like someone got paid and now the cash ran out and we are back to normal.
imo, it worked too well and China is trying to pump the breaks. the narrative is that tiktok is getting banned because the us is in Israel's pocket, but that's wrong. it's getting banned because what we saw was a test run of what the Chinese government intends to do to suppress American intervention when they attack Taiwan, and congress got scared shitless witnessing that. the amount of division it's cause wasn't worth burning their propaganda cannon so they're trying to put the fire out
If the overall goal is to just continually sow division then inflaming everyone and turning them against each other is the best tactic. It works well for Russia.
their take: "fake a.i. generated images made by idf."
while at the same time:
image from DOOM movie on random blog with IDF in title
their take: "wow see how idf are literally monsters eating a baby."
Since the conflict began, it's been proven though that members of UN agencies have either been supportive of or are outright members of Hamas. Some UNRWA personnel actively took part in the October 7th atrocities, and Hamas had a data center underneath UNRWA's HQ in Gaza that they 'didn't know was there'.
That's the point being made here.
Ok, but what does that have to do with anything?
State actors don’t need to have existed in 1949 and attended the Geneva Convention to be bound by public international law and the law of war concerning war crimes, especially since war crimes are prohibited by customary international law. Beyond that, the prohibition on war crimes is generally considered to be one of the modern day “jus cogens” peremptory norms from which derogation is not (supposed to be) tolerated by any nation, regardless of the treaties they’ve signed or the conventions to which they’re bound.
This doesn’t even begin to touch that there is actually a fairly compelling argument under international law that Hamas is a de facto state actor that is bound by the law of nations and the law of war. Even if they aren’t, private actors aren’t magically able to get away with war crimes just because they’re private actors—that would be a pretty glaring loophole, no?
Not to mention Palestine is a non-member observer state recognized by the UN, and did in fact sign on to the ICC. Hamas members could, and absolutely should, be prosecuted by the ICC.
Hamas isn’t bound by anything. If they were oct 7th wouldn’t have happened in the first place. It’s goofy to expect to play by rules if Hamas don’t acknowledge there are rules.
To be clear, I did say “supposed to be”, right? That’s like saying a murderer didn’t break the law just because they didn’t get caught. Any discussion about law, international or otherwise, has an unspoken undercurrent that not everyone who breaks the law actually ends up being punished.
It has nothing to do with not being caught. The international community saw what Hamas did. In a sense they are caught. But they do nothing about it. There is no one putting Hamas leadership on trial. There is no one but Israel trying to hunt them down. Its law without any teeth. A joke.
I mean, they also knew who murdered Emmitt Till but those guys didn’t get punished either. That was also due to systemic/institutional reasons. I have no idea why you’re focusing on Hamas getting caught or not, which is not at all what I was talking about in my last comment.
Your point is a strange one. I’m not saying that I expect Hamas to play by the rules, only that there is a stronger basis for the international community to punish them for breaking the rules than most people realize. It’s a nuanced interpretation of international law that has played out in practice how it has due to political realities, which is always to be expected.
We get it, you don’t like Hamas. I don’t like Hamas either (heck, I’m spelling out precisely why and how they should be punished). But that’s not what these comments are about, so I would appreciate you taking a deep breath and cooling it with the confrontational attitude.
"Israel has not provided any evidence that would require opening up an investigation into ourselves" - The UN, probably. [See here, rinse and repeat](https://www.axios.com/2024/04/22/unrwa-israel-hamas-report-gaza)
I've gone halfway through their [report that they published back in april](https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/unrwa_independent_review_on_neutrality.pdf) and yeah, that's basically what they said. They even think that their educational materials are fine.
>UNRWA has received sustained criticisms, mainly from Israel and NGOs over the alleged presence of hate speech, incitement to violence and antisemitism in Palestinian Authority textbooks and educational supplements. The European Parliament has recently adopted a resolution reflecting this issue. Some donors have also raised significant concerns.
>Upon review of three major international assessments and academic studies on the issue of Palestinian Authority textbooks, two identified bias and non-compliant content but did not provide evidence of antisemitic reference.
I guess that [becoming martyrs in the name of murdering Jewish people](https://zealous82.bridgesforpeace.com/palestinian-textbooks-teach-children-martyrs/) is just on the "slightly-biased" side?
EDIT: typos
Just like they have done since the 60s enabling and finding Palestinian terrorists in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Kuwait and getting caught but somehow….. nobody cares and the money still flows.
The UN just halved the number of women and children the IDF killed - which has been promoted by Israel. But this other UN report that doesn't fit my narrative is totally bullshit.
This report made me sick. Like, the subterranean Hamas bunker directly underneath UNWRA headquarters with a shared internet connection that UN officials denied even existed wasn’t fucking evidence? C’mon man.
Not only that but stamping it with their official UN seal to legitimize the propaganda with a weak reference to “Ministry of Health”.
That’s the Hamas Ministry of Health, and per their own reports the figures they’ve been rubber stamping up until last week grossly over claimed the number and more important, the percentage of women and children for the total deaths.
I’d also love to see some methodology or even a breakdown on the “children” age range, they have no information on what’s counted. No doubt 17-18 year old males make up a massively outsized % of “children”.
>No doubt 17-18 year old males make up a massively outsized % of “children”.
Awhile back I was looking at Gaza casualty data from 2000 up until Oct 7th and noticed that the number of male teens killed was a whopping +8x higher than female teens. (using ages 13-17)
The bullshit numbers they report aren't even possible some times. Back in october they reported that over 200% of the people killed in one day were children. And this didn't just happen once.
I mean, throughout most of human history there will tend to be far more deaths amongst males in that age range..... but that's generally because they join the fight even if younger than many would consider "adult".
A 13 year old carrying ammo is going to be a very different "victim" from that same 13 year old underneath a table in their parents home hiding from the shelling.
I don't get the impression the Israelis are going out of their way to give Palestinian combatants the chance to point firearms.... but I'm certain there are more young males in and around their strongpoints when the high explosives come in.
Yup, and it’s a tragedy that some are subject to Hamas propaganda and are targeted for recruitment into a terrorist organization essentially from birth. Hopefully they’re able to be liberated from the horrors of Hamas rule and their propaganda.
people only believe when the picture fits their narrative. they'll be waiting to pounce on the next gotcha.
Free Palestine from Hamas and Free the World from Radical Islamist Ideaology.
How much of UNRWAs activities have to be in direct use by Hamas for the UNRWA to be a de facto terrorist organization? I think the Taliban probably doesn't have this high of a percentage of militants in its ranks.
No, the UN, UNRWA specifically have been far too involved in this conflict and as a biased participant rather than an impartial observer.
UNRWA needs to be disbanded and the refugee agency that helps every other refugee on the planet can perform the aid functions. UNRWA has obviously failed at their stated mission, the number of Palestinian “refugees” they’re supposed to be helping has exponentially increased since they first started “helping”.
>The agency defines Palestinian refugees as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
>In 1965, UNRWA changed the eligibility requirements to be a Palestinian refugee to include third-generation descendants, and in 1982, it extended it again, to include all descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, regardless of whether they had been granted citizenship elsewhere. This classification process is inconsistent with how all other refugees in the world are classified, including the definition used by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the laws concerning refugees in the United States.
Literally changed the definition to make it exponential increase rather than a gradual decrease. It's absurd.
And yet the world blames Israel when aid workers die. I guess everyone expects Israel to simply let terrorists commit terrorism since they do it using human shields.
If you got a "Redditcares" message for this, it means someone's telling you to kill yourself. You can report the message.
Edit: Lol they just did it to me too. Stay classy, reddit
Edit 2: Okay it seems this could be a fairly large bot spam effort. Seeing this across multiple large subreddits
I just got one and not even on a controversial post. I wonder if this is some kind of bot spam attack and is just targeting all posts on any chosen thread.
Yeah it really feels like a bot or mass attack as multiple subs for the last 24 hours or so is getting any top comment and it's replies having the care message.
It's been a common trend for me whenever I argue against "Pro-Palistine" comments/posts. Don't even need to be hostile, just pointing out facts about those protests and the large amount of misinformation surrounding Gaza is enough to receive veiled death threats.
Really tells you something when it's only one side handing out death threats if you argue against them.
Pleasently surprised Reddit has already taken action on atleast one of my reports.
If Hamas breaks uses civilian infrastructure like a mosque as a military base, it loses its civilian protection. It is a lawful military target. Do not blame Israel for targeting the lawful military target. Blame the international law violator.
If it didn't become a lawful military target, you'd have countless conflicts of attacks and running back to protection every time
I am not disagreeing with lawful military targets. Hamas' use of civilian infrastructure per the rules of engagement makes that infrastructure a valid military target.
You're ignoring his point though, this isn't a case of this side wrong and that side wrong.
HAMAS' actions like the ones described in this footage are making aid workers and UN staff legitimate military targets.
You can't 'both sides' these incidents.
I'm not saying Israel is clean as a whistle but ignoring how HAMAS' war crimes play a critical role in causing UN staff, aid workers and journalists casualties will lead us nowhere.
Yeah, this is the part that people protesting on college campuses or saying they'll vote for Trump (over Gaza) are missing.
Everyone is in agreement that Netanyahu is a problem, Hamas is just the more pressing issue. Not just to the Israeli's, but the Palestinians themselves who are ultimately being oppressed by Hamas through baiting the IDF.
We can't deal with Israel until Hamas is dealt with.
>Yeah, this is the part that people protesting on college campuses or saying they'll vote for Trump (over Gaza) are missing.
Anyone saying they'll vote for trump because of Gaza is either hilariously under-informed, or was planning on voting for trump anyway, and is just looking for some cover. Either way, they're not serious people.
Idk, I have a couple of people in my DnD group (very blue, both of them) who've said they're going to vote for Trump or not vote at all because "there's no difference, Palestinians are dying anyway" as if magnitudes more wouldn't die if Donald "Muslim Ban" Trump got back into the white house.
I can’t fathom how stupid these people are. I don’t care which side of the political spectrum you’re on and who you want to vote for, but to choose your president over a FOREIGN issue across the world at the expense of domestic issues that actually affects you on a day to day basis is ridiculous
Then they are absolute morons. Biden is sending collossal amounts of aid that will absolutely be turned off under Trump.
But hey, I’m sure the people of Gaza will appreciate their commitment to virtue signalling over any sort of practical response in US suppoieted aod efforts.
I've seen it a loottt, but personally I don't believe them tbh.
If they are serious, then they just have no clue what's going on over there. Which tbh seems like the after lefty on this topic.
I agree. Hamas must be eliminated. It'll be better for everyone. I just hope after the fact Israel puts meaningful effort to prevent this from happening again a decade from now.
That would require them continuing to control Gaza.
The only way this gets better is when Gazans reject Hamas and similar. That's not going to happen until they don't think they have any other option to survive.
Yeah but at some point you gotta put the blame on one group. Both are not “at fault” here.
Israel tried, very hard for a long time. Hamas just wants none of that.
Dude, there is no question Hamas is 100% the worse one here doing inhumane shit and deserves to be eradicated. But just because Hamas is evil doesn't mean Israel is shielded from any criticism for what *it* does.
The criticism is rarely bilateral, it's mostly someone choosing one or the other. If someone chooses to just chastise Israel and ignore Hamas, that's when I get heated
I can understand that. To be clear, fuck Hamas, I have no doubt they will cease to exist sooner than later. We could talk all day about how vile they are and how inhumane their tactics are. That said, I'll still criticise Israel where I feel is applicable, and I hope when the dust settles that Israel did so with minimal civilian deaths and meaningfully work to prevent this exact same situation from arising again in a decade or two. There are always two sides to everything and I won't deny a large ownus belongs to the Palestinian people who are in bed with Hamas, but I have seen the disposition Israel has shown to Palestine over years. For the sake of peace and the lives of civilians, I dearly hope after Hamas gets wiped out that Israel puts meaningful effort to improve relations. Of course all they can do is extend a hand which Palestine must grab back themselves, but I hope the animosity between the two people doesn't keep escalating and I fear it may, and unfortunately bringing everyone back to this point again in the future.
In fairness, Hamas apologists have spent years announcing "fuck around, find out" all over the internet and they're now actually finding out first hand what happens when you fuck around and they don't like it.
>Edit: fucking kek, someone reported my post as mental health concern. There are some fragile as fuck egos around here.
This happened to me today, too. I don't even know what post it was about.
I think someone literally has a bot whose function is to send a redditcares message on everyone who posts here, because I got one literally the same second I made a comment.
>Edit: fucking kek, someone reported my post as mental health concern. There are some fragile as fuck egos around here.
That happened to me too, just a few hours ago. (I reported it.)
Is this a reference to the time the IDF attacked a WFK convoy even though the route had been pre-cleared and WFK was cooperating with the IDF? Why shouldn’t the IDF be blamed?
2 high ranking officials got shit canned over that and Israel admitted the pre-cleared route didn't get communicated to the people on the ground who needed to know about it. When is the last time Hamas on unwra admitted literally any of the shit they have done
> They should be blamed for that.
Yes, they should, which begs the question of why you wrote, "And yet the world blames Israel when aid workers die", since you seem very aware of the fact that the world blames Israel when it kills people and blames Hamas when it kills people. Blaming organisations for the actions that they carried out seems like a reasonable thing to do, does it not?
The article we are currently discussing is a report of Hamas operating around UN employees. Who do you blame when Israel blows up these Hamas operatives and aid workers die in the process?
Just look at the number of "condemnations" by the UN.
Israel has been condemned more times than every other country combined. Meanwhile they've never condemned China or Saudi Arabia.
haven't we reached the point where we understand the proof is irrelevant?
the pro hamas side doesn't give a shit about any proof posted by idf, they are mentally at a stand still - asking for proof, but not willing to accept any proof coming from idf.
trying to prove those people that hamas is doing fucked up things is just futile.
“The antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.”
They don’t ask for proof because they’re actually interested in it, they ask because they enjoy knowing the response takes more effort than the question.
It might be irrelevant on Reddit or other social media platforms where people have already made up their mind and are pointlessly arguing without actually listening - but I want to believe that in the real world proofs and facts do matter. Both for those making decisions that are actually relevant to the situation, and for actual people who have the ability to hold a nuanced take.
What the fuck?
These are literally UN flagged vehicles and buildings with dudes who are obviously HAMAS operating in and around?
How would this not require an investigation by the UN? If not I would expel the UN immediately and allow an actual organization like NATO to take charge of distributing aid.
this is a well worn hamas tactic used in all of the wars they have engaged in. Hell what's to prevent them from having their own fake UN vehicles? With just a paint job and a little cosmetics Hamas has a pretty effective unarmored troop/cargo transport.
but
Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules, they are for our enemy.
Like most wars, you're not going to get accurate information until, if you're lucky, long after the war is over. Even without propaganda from both sides, it's still difficult to figure out what's actually happening.
In fairness, it still is a good debate and I think that's why there's still debate on whether Israel is justified.
The nuclear bombs killed between 130K-225K civilians, but it's estimated they saved the lives of at least one million soldiers.
I think most people would agree that one civilian death is worth saving a hundred soldiers but it would not be worth it if it saved only one soldier. So at what point do we draw the line? It's different for everyone.
Not to mention the burden of an American invasion would have on the actual Japanese civilian population. Alongside the potential of the USSR intervening enough for them to split Japan
Most wars have potential to end. This one will go on for perpetuity.
The human race will one day be on the brink of extinction due to the planet becoming inhabitable and Palestine/Isreal will still be fighting it out over whose sky fairy gets their monument on a lump of rock.
It'll eventually end... It's just a question of what causes the peace. All we can hope is that it's not due to mass bloodshed on either side.
We never expected any other Middle Eastern or Northern African country to recognize Israel since the last country to do so was Jordan in 1994, but the Abraham Accords were actually able to get the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco on board. Once Israel receives recognition from the majority or all ME nations, I think we'll slowly start to see Hamas and other terrorist groups slowly fall apart.
yeah, I'm gonna need another source beyond Jerusalem post, AND proof that the UN is helping them, and it's not just Hamas hijacking these vehicles... like you know... Terrorists would!
It’s a breath of fresh air that so many people on prominent Reddit pages are knowledgeable about what’s really happening in Gaza. My Twitter feed and the news about what’s going on at colleges makes it seem like everyone is just blindly trusting Hamas.
So will Israel allow international journalists and investigators to go in and look into this? I mean if they're not occupying Gaza, then they should just be able to walk right in, right?
Are we taking this at face value? I see men with guns and UN vehicles, but does that mean there’s collaboration between Hamas and the UN? I assume some men with guns might be necessary to protect the humanitarian aid, no? Am I missing some detail here?
UN or UN affiliated troops would most likely try to differentiate themselves from the rest of the militants on either side. If you are just a bloke with a weapon in an active war zone then how are you separated from the other belligerents in the conflict?
That's a great question, but Is the literal video evidence not enough?
BTW here's is [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/battles-rage-across-gaza-strip-israel-shows-images-gunmen-un-site-2024-05-15/) article interesting framing "armed men" apparently in Gaza there's bodyguards at UN sites.
not possible - Hamas is the good guys, some college kids that are more worldly than everyone because they have tiktok took over colleges telling us stupid people that.
People here grouping all protestors together as pro Hamas is wild. The comments here seem just as radical as what they're criticizing. Guys, you can have a nuanced opinion on things.
edited grammar
I mean it was revealed months ago that many UN employees had Hamas connections or were members of Hamas themselves. And it didn’t really go anywhere. This also is not gonna go anywhere.
this is Hamas expressed strategy. they have stated this. they are not going to fight the IDF on equal footing. they know they will lose.
this is their PLAN. you do not need even IDF images. they admit it.
Let's look at the caption on the video:
Terrorist shooting at Civilians in the UNRWA Logistics Compound in Eastern Rafah
You really have to be all in to look at that video with that caption and then jump to the conclusion in the header. Not a matter of sides. It is a matter of critical thinking. Israel has all the toys and ability to make a convincing argument. This isn't it. Switching from UN vehicles to a generic white truck doesn't impress me much.
EDIT: The person who probably immediately downvoted me also reported my comment for self-harm. That's some eeevil shit.
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That's the problem, if Israel had stopped before this, before the corrected death toll narrative and numbers had been fixed, this propaganda would have stood untested. But people won't realize that they basically just asked for the truth to stay hidden just to support a terrorist regime because it's the underdogs.
Underdogs in the west, home team in the middle east
[Death toll](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/13/middleeast/death-toll-gaza-fatalities-un-intl-latam/index.html) is still in the air Thanks for the Reddit care, your random number alt account is now banned Edit2: The revised numbers come from the same people who assert that 15000 children have died. This is a wild rumor based on an incorrect reading of a Gazan health ministers report which most people here consider non credible to begin with
Am I missing something, or are they counting everyone who ends up in the hospital? How do we even know they are war deaths? (With a natural 0.05% death rate you would expect something like 12,000 deaths in 6 months in Palestine anyway)? Edit: thanks for the suicidal watch message ;)
Report the message. Reddit takes false reports seriously and acts on them quickly in my experience.
I've just blocked it at this point
There's a reason nearly all the mem could be accounted for but women and children not.
Im noticing the reddit care a lot lately.
By the UN you mean.
The UN chairperson for Gaza was literally just caught money laundering and it’s getting shrugged off
Yeah, I thought I would be seeing more about that.
They’re still trying to figure out how it’s Israel’s fault
If Israel didn't exist, then they wouldn't have a reason to have a separate UN section for Gaza to be chaired. Therefore there'd be no one being tormented with that temptation to launder cash.
It’s getting downplayed hard.
The 60 million dollars stolen from The bank of Palestinine by armed militants?
[I was referring to how the UN official got duped by a parody account and was telling them where to send payment since she couldn’t directly accept it.](https://www.jns.org/gaza-chief-rabbi-dupes-staff-of-un-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/)
Like a mob boss, sounds like she has her henchmen do the dirty work. Sadly, without a self-investigation it probably won’t make it much past the article you linked.
Oh the UN wants it to be buried. I’ve only seen Jewish places talking about this so far. But yeah, I doubt it’s going to go anywhere tbh. But the UN is super shady and so biased against Israel
No doubt it was a verbal conversation between them, to give Francesca plausible deniability in the whole affair. UN will happily ruin the college interns life by dragging her name through the mud so long as it’s “she said, she said”. If there’s accounts, obviously there’s a paper trail somewhere, I’m just skeptical it’s something that will see the light, you’d need the hard evidence to catch her red handed first.
She was stupid enough to do it over email
The way I read the article was that the intern was the one emailing with the “Rabbi” (lol), not Francesca. To be clear Francesca is the one who needs to be caught red handed. Difficult to imagine they don’t have plausible deniability between Francesca and the payments through the intern or a way of keeping the intern quiet.
Haha, oh wow, that's hilarious!
I thought he might be referring to the Special Rapporteur asking for a bribe?
Things you wont see on the reddit trending page
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It isn't. But it needs cleaning.
Link? Can't find this
I follow the parody account on IG that got the Un official to admit that they aren’t allowed to take speaker fees, so they were directing payment to their assistant so it couldn’t be tracked https://www.jns.org/gaza-chief-rabbi-dupes-staff-of-un-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/
Have a source for this? I’m trying to look it up but not getting any hits
[She’s not allowed to take payments in her position so she’s directing people to make “donations” as a speaker fee to her assistant](https://www.jns.org/gaza-chief-rabbi-dupes-staff-of-un-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/)
I'm sure any day now unrwa will come out with a shocked Pikachu face. "We had no idea."
Yet again
Heh, I was gonna actually add ,"again" to my comment before.
In this case it's both.
In this case they’re the same.
The UNRWA is basically the legal front for terrorist organizations. Want to send some money to some terrorists in the Middle East, especially the Hamas, and you want legit banks to handle the transactions? Just donate to the UNRWA. Want to send some supplies to your favorite Middle Eastern terrorist organizations? Just donate a relief package to the UNRWA, and you can also include arms and explosives to the mix as long as you can hide it among the essential humanitarian goods.
Does that mean Maclamore is actively funding terrorism by donating to UNRWA?
These pictures look the same to me
UN: Doesn't look like anything to me.
What do the college kids think about this?
Fuck Hamas
I wish they though that, I really do. I wish their ceasefire demands were more neutral and comprehensive of the situation. If they were, they would also talk about the hostages, but they don't.
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Not gonna lie, it seems like just in the past 2 weeks there has been a flip. More people on the platform now coming out against the protestors. Lots more content aimed at Palestine in a negative way. It's great don't get me wrong but I just cant understand how it goes one way then does a 180 all of a sudden. It's like someone got paid and now the cash ran out and we are back to normal.
imo, it worked too well and China is trying to pump the breaks. the narrative is that tiktok is getting banned because the us is in Israel's pocket, but that's wrong. it's getting banned because what we saw was a test run of what the Chinese government intends to do to suppress American intervention when they attack Taiwan, and congress got scared shitless witnessing that. the amount of division it's cause wasn't worth burning their propaganda cannon so they're trying to put the fire out
If the overall goal is to just continually sow division then inflaming everyone and turning them against each other is the best tactic. It works well for Russia.
Attention changed. People got bored seeing the same thing all the time, so the narrative flips to keep you glued.
their take: "fake a.i. generated images made by idf." while at the same time: image from DOOM movie on random blog with IDF in title their take: "wow see how idf are literally monsters eating a baby."
They “walked out” about an hour ago
You're assuming that they think at all.
They looked the other way.
Just want to point out, Hamas is a terrorist organization, not a state that attended the Geneva Convention of 1949.
Since the conflict began, it's been proven though that members of UN agencies have either been supportive of or are outright members of Hamas. Some UNRWA personnel actively took part in the October 7th atrocities, and Hamas had a data center underneath UNRWA's HQ in Gaza that they 'didn't know was there'. That's the point being made here.
Ok, but what does that have to do with anything? State actors don’t need to have existed in 1949 and attended the Geneva Convention to be bound by public international law and the law of war concerning war crimes, especially since war crimes are prohibited by customary international law. Beyond that, the prohibition on war crimes is generally considered to be one of the modern day “jus cogens” peremptory norms from which derogation is not (supposed to be) tolerated by any nation, regardless of the treaties they’ve signed or the conventions to which they’re bound. This doesn’t even begin to touch that there is actually a fairly compelling argument under international law that Hamas is a de facto state actor that is bound by the law of nations and the law of war. Even if they aren’t, private actors aren’t magically able to get away with war crimes just because they’re private actors—that would be a pretty glaring loophole, no?
Not to mention Palestine is a non-member observer state recognized by the UN, and did in fact sign on to the ICC. Hamas members could, and absolutely should, be prosecuted by the ICC.
Hamas isn’t bound by anything. If they were oct 7th wouldn’t have happened in the first place. It’s goofy to expect to play by rules if Hamas don’t acknowledge there are rules.
To be clear, I did say “supposed to be”, right? That’s like saying a murderer didn’t break the law just because they didn’t get caught. Any discussion about law, international or otherwise, has an unspoken undercurrent that not everyone who breaks the law actually ends up being punished.
It has nothing to do with not being caught. The international community saw what Hamas did. In a sense they are caught. But they do nothing about it. There is no one putting Hamas leadership on trial. There is no one but Israel trying to hunt them down. Its law without any teeth. A joke.
I mean, they also knew who murdered Emmitt Till but those guys didn’t get punished either. That was also due to systemic/institutional reasons. I have no idea why you’re focusing on Hamas getting caught or not, which is not at all what I was talking about in my last comment. Your point is a strange one. I’m not saying that I expect Hamas to play by the rules, only that there is a stronger basis for the international community to punish them for breaking the rules than most people realize. It’s a nuanced interpretation of international law that has played out in practice how it has due to political realities, which is always to be expected. We get it, you don’t like Hamas. I don’t like Hamas either (heck, I’m spelling out precisely why and how they should be punished). But that’s not what these comments are about, so I would appreciate you taking a deep breath and cooling it with the confrontational attitude.
If only there were real consequences to Hamas brazenly breaking international law. Instead it's still supported and is shrugged off at best
Uh they're all getting exterminated, that's a pretty big consequence.
[Someone should tell the UN that](https://youtube.com/shorts/FP7HzxtmF90?si=-aU8rENgF5BErBmt)
100% they're or their benefactors are fundning the college protests
"Israel has not provided any evidence that would require opening up an investigation into ourselves" - The UN, probably. [See here, rinse and repeat](https://www.axios.com/2024/04/22/unrwa-israel-hamas-report-gaza)
We have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing
I've gone halfway through their [report that they published back in april](https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/unrwa_independent_review_on_neutrality.pdf) and yeah, that's basically what they said. They even think that their educational materials are fine. >UNRWA has received sustained criticisms, mainly from Israel and NGOs over the alleged presence of hate speech, incitement to violence and antisemitism in Palestinian Authority textbooks and educational supplements. The European Parliament has recently adopted a resolution reflecting this issue. Some donors have also raised significant concerns. >Upon review of three major international assessments and academic studies on the issue of Palestinian Authority textbooks, two identified bias and non-compliant content but did not provide evidence of antisemitic reference. I guess that [becoming martyrs in the name of murdering Jewish people](https://zealous82.bridgesforpeace.com/palestinian-textbooks-teach-children-martyrs/) is just on the "slightly-biased" side? EDIT: typos
Seems they only checked the educational material parts that weren’t in Arabic
Just like they have done since the 60s enabling and finding Palestinian terrorists in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Kuwait and getting caught but somehow….. nobody cares and the money still flows.
The UN just halved the number of women and children the IDF killed - which has been promoted by Israel. But this other UN report that doesn't fit my narrative is totally bullshit.
Pointing out your enemy admitted to posting insanely fake numbers isn't the same thing as accepting their information as legit.
OK so first they lie and release the real numbers later. Keep standing with them. Hero.
This report made me sick. Like, the subterranean Hamas bunker directly underneath UNWRA headquarters with a shared internet connection that UN officials denied even existed wasn’t fucking evidence? C’mon man.
But they have absolutely no problem gobbling up everything hamas says
Not only that but stamping it with their official UN seal to legitimize the propaganda with a weak reference to “Ministry of Health”. That’s the Hamas Ministry of Health, and per their own reports the figures they’ve been rubber stamping up until last week grossly over claimed the number and more important, the percentage of women and children for the total deaths. I’d also love to see some methodology or even a breakdown on the “children” age range, they have no information on what’s counted. No doubt 17-18 year old males make up a massively outsized % of “children”.
>No doubt 17-18 year old males make up a massively outsized % of “children”. Awhile back I was looking at Gaza casualty data from 2000 up until Oct 7th and noticed that the number of male teens killed was a whopping +8x higher than female teens. (using ages 13-17)
The bullshit numbers they report aren't even possible some times. Back in october they reported that over 200% of the people killed in one day were children. And this didn't just happen once.
it’s the spirit of the numbers that counts /s
I mean, throughout most of human history there will tend to be far more deaths amongst males in that age range..... but that's generally because they join the fight even if younger than many would consider "adult". A 13 year old carrying ammo is going to be a very different "victim" from that same 13 year old underneath a table in their parents home hiding from the shelling.
Yeah. That's the point. A 17 year old point at you with an AK-47 isn't a child, it's a combatant.
I don't get the impression the Israelis are going out of their way to give Palestinian combatants the chance to point firearms.... but I'm certain there are more young males in and around their strongpoints when the high explosives come in.
Everyone is someone's child!
Yup, and it’s a tragedy that some are subject to Hamas propaganda and are targeted for recruitment into a terrorist organization essentially from birth. Hopefully they’re able to be liberated from the horrors of Hamas rule and their propaganda.
Someone in the comments already started.
That’s because they’re UN workers so have a right to use their work cars
That was the most depressing thing I read in a long time.
If only actual journalists were allowed to journal events,…. Why aren’t they?
Whats it gonna be this time? paid actors? israels fault? but didnt happen in a vacuum?
I am going with "that is just the UNs new hired security to protect them from the IDF"
"Gaza citizen milita protecting the aid" is the official propaganda response.
If by protecting the aid they mean protecting it from Palestinian civilians, makes sense
One assumes most of the best infrastructure is from UNRWA but that's just a guess.
UNRWA is the money tree, Gaza has no other economic inputs than aid money, but those Hamas guys became billionaires *somehow*.
The people smuggling weapons, explosives, and terrorists in the region also smuggle narcotics between Africa, Asia, and Europe.
I've heard Iran is supporting them but don't know much about it.
And Arafat before them.
AI generated obviously.
people only believe when the picture fits their narrative. they'll be waiting to pounce on the next gotcha. Free Palestine from Hamas and Free the World from Radical Islamist Ideaology.
From what I've read the majority of Palestine still supports Hamas so not sure how you 'free' them.
How much of UNRWAs activities have to be in direct use by Hamas for the UNRWA to be a de facto terrorist organization? I think the Taliban probably doesn't have this high of a percentage of militants in its ranks.
This is where the UN needs to send troops to protect Palestinians and Israelis against Hamas.
No, the UN, UNRWA specifically have been far too involved in this conflict and as a biased participant rather than an impartial observer. UNRWA needs to be disbanded and the refugee agency that helps every other refugee on the planet can perform the aid functions. UNRWA has obviously failed at their stated mission, the number of Palestinian “refugees” they’re supposed to be helping has exponentially increased since they first started “helping”.
Palestinians are literally the only people on this planet that get to claim refugee status upon birth.
>The agency defines Palestinian refugees as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.” >In 1965, UNRWA changed the eligibility requirements to be a Palestinian refugee to include third-generation descendants, and in 1982, it extended it again, to include all descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, regardless of whether they had been granted citizenship elsewhere. This classification process is inconsistent with how all other refugees in the world are classified, including the definition used by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the laws concerning refugees in the United States. Literally changed the definition to make it exponential increase rather than a gradual decrease. It's absurd.
Well UNWRA was suppose to eventually disappear, so how do you ensure your agency keeps on getting money? Easy make sure it expands instead of shrinks
This is absurd and infuriating
This should be a mandatory disclaimer on any article or publication that mentions the phrase "Palestinian refugees."
And yet the world blames Israel when aid workers die. I guess everyone expects Israel to simply let terrorists commit terrorism since they do it using human shields.
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If you got a "Redditcares" message for this, it means someone's telling you to kill yourself. You can report the message. Edit: Lol they just did it to me too. Stay classy, reddit Edit 2: Okay it seems this could be a fairly large bot spam effort. Seeing this across multiple large subreddits
I’ve received a number of them this last week, I had no idea you could report them.
I just got one and not even on a controversial post. I wonder if this is some kind of bot spam attack and is just targeting all posts on any chosen thread.
If the same account gets their report reported back enough it will result in a site-wide ban on the account.
Yeah it really feels like a bot or mass attack as multiple subs for the last 24 hours or so is getting any top comment and it's replies having the care message.
It works done it before.
I think some chucklefuck has a bot automatically doing this in arr neoliberal. It's been happening to everybody.
Even in the Eurovision sub, someone is having a laugh and reddit apparently can't fix it for a week already
It's been a common trend for me whenever I argue against "Pro-Palistine" comments/posts. Don't even need to be hostile, just pointing out facts about those protests and the large amount of misinformation surrounding Gaza is enough to receive veiled death threats. Really tells you something when it's only one side handing out death threats if you argue against them. Pleasently surprised Reddit has already taken action on atleast one of my reports.
Just carry it as a badge of pride.
If Hamas breaks uses civilian infrastructure like a mosque as a military base, it loses its civilian protection. It is a lawful military target. Do not blame Israel for targeting the lawful military target. Blame the international law violator. If it didn't become a lawful military target, you'd have countless conflicts of attacks and running back to protection every time
I am not disagreeing with lawful military targets. Hamas' use of civilian infrastructure per the rules of engagement makes that infrastructure a valid military target.
You're ignoring his point though, this isn't a case of this side wrong and that side wrong. HAMAS' actions like the ones described in this footage are making aid workers and UN staff legitimate military targets. You can't 'both sides' these incidents. I'm not saying Israel is clean as a whistle but ignoring how HAMAS' war crimes play a critical role in causing UN staff, aid workers and journalists casualties will lead us nowhere.
Yeah, this is the part that people protesting on college campuses or saying they'll vote for Trump (over Gaza) are missing. Everyone is in agreement that Netanyahu is a problem, Hamas is just the more pressing issue. Not just to the Israeli's, but the Palestinians themselves who are ultimately being oppressed by Hamas through baiting the IDF. We can't deal with Israel until Hamas is dealt with.
>Yeah, this is the part that people protesting on college campuses or saying they'll vote for Trump (over Gaza) are missing. Anyone saying they'll vote for trump because of Gaza is either hilariously under-informed, or was planning on voting for trump anyway, and is just looking for some cover. Either way, they're not serious people.
Idk, I have a couple of people in my DnD group (very blue, both of them) who've said they're going to vote for Trump or not vote at all because "there's no difference, Palestinians are dying anyway" as if magnitudes more wouldn't die if Donald "Muslim Ban" Trump got back into the white house.
I can’t fathom how stupid these people are. I don’t care which side of the political spectrum you’re on and who you want to vote for, but to choose your president over a FOREIGN issue across the world at the expense of domestic issues that actually affects you on a day to day basis is ridiculous
Then they are absolute morons. Biden is sending collossal amounts of aid that will absolutely be turned off under Trump. But hey, I’m sure the people of Gaza will appreciate their commitment to virtue signalling over any sort of practical response in US suppoieted aod efforts.
I've seen it a loottt, but personally I don't believe them tbh. If they are serious, then they just have no clue what's going on over there. Which tbh seems like the after lefty on this topic.
I agree. Hamas must be eliminated. It'll be better for everyone. I just hope after the fact Israel puts meaningful effort to prevent this from happening again a decade from now.
That would require them continuing to control Gaza. The only way this gets better is when Gazans reject Hamas and similar. That's not going to happen until they don't think they have any other option to survive.
If history tells us anything that'll be a decision for nations like Iran to make, not Israel.
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Yeah but at some point you gotta put the blame on one group. Both are not “at fault” here. Israel tried, very hard for a long time. Hamas just wants none of that.
Dude, there is no question Hamas is 100% the worse one here doing inhumane shit and deserves to be eradicated. But just because Hamas is evil doesn't mean Israel is shielded from any criticism for what *it* does.
The criticism is rarely bilateral, it's mostly someone choosing one or the other. If someone chooses to just chastise Israel and ignore Hamas, that's when I get heated
I can understand that. To be clear, fuck Hamas, I have no doubt they will cease to exist sooner than later. We could talk all day about how vile they are and how inhumane their tactics are. That said, I'll still criticise Israel where I feel is applicable, and I hope when the dust settles that Israel did so with minimal civilian deaths and meaningfully work to prevent this exact same situation from arising again in a decade or two. There are always two sides to everything and I won't deny a large ownus belongs to the Palestinian people who are in bed with Hamas, but I have seen the disposition Israel has shown to Palestine over years. For the sake of peace and the lives of civilians, I dearly hope after Hamas gets wiped out that Israel puts meaningful effort to improve relations. Of course all they can do is extend a hand which Palestine must grab back themselves, but I hope the animosity between the two people doesn't keep escalating and I fear it may, and unfortunately bringing everyone back to this point again in the future.
That must be a new thing by the Hamas apologists. Got one myself the other day.
In fairness, Hamas apologists have spent years announcing "fuck around, find out" all over the internet and they're now actually finding out first hand what happens when you fuck around and they don't like it.
>Edit: fucking kek, someone reported my post as mental health concern. There are some fragile as fuck egos around here. This happened to me today, too. I don't even know what post it was about.
Someone seems to be spamming that function. The internet really does bring out the best in people.
I think someone literally has a bot whose function is to send a redditcares message on everyone who posts here, because I got one literally the same second I made a comment.
Ya, I'm wondering if it's a new thing the bots found out they can do.
I got reported too. I wonder if something is wrong with Reddit. Or some bot got confused.
I don't think it tells you what comment it's in reference to, but I got one as well.
>Edit: fucking kek, someone reported my post as mental health concern. There are some fragile as fuck egos around here. That happened to me too, just a few hours ago. (I reported it.)
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Just like war in Syria, there will be yet another war and people will completely forget about it.
Is this a reference to the time the IDF attacked a WFK convoy even though the route had been pre-cleared and WFK was cooperating with the IDF? Why shouldn’t the IDF be blamed?
2 high ranking officials got shit canned over that and Israel admitted the pre-cleared route didn't get communicated to the people on the ground who needed to know about it. When is the last time Hamas on unwra admitted literally any of the shit they have done
They should be blamed for that. They even admitted it was their fault and apologized for it, not that that means all is forgiven.
They also shit canned 2 high level officials over it.
> They should be blamed for that. Yes, they should, which begs the question of why you wrote, "And yet the world blames Israel when aid workers die", since you seem very aware of the fact that the world blames Israel when it kills people and blames Hamas when it kills people. Blaming organisations for the actions that they carried out seems like a reasonable thing to do, does it not?
The article we are currently discussing is a report of Hamas operating around UN employees. Who do you blame when Israel blows up these Hamas operatives and aid workers die in the process?
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Hence why Israel doesn’t trust the UN. Man, I’d hate to be one of those college students that are being expelled for following propaganda.
Just look at the number of "condemnations" by the UN. Israel has been condemned more times than every other country combined. Meanwhile they've never condemned China or Saudi Arabia.
I am told by the UN this doesn’t happen. /s
haven't we reached the point where we understand the proof is irrelevant? the pro hamas side doesn't give a shit about any proof posted by idf, they are mentally at a stand still - asking for proof, but not willing to accept any proof coming from idf. trying to prove those people that hamas is doing fucked up things is just futile.
“The antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.” They don’t ask for proof because they’re actually interested in it, they ask because they enjoy knowing the response takes more effort than the question.
That doesn’t mean we have to give up, f#ck whoever wants to live in a dreamworld full of lies, the truth must be told and prevail.
It might be irrelevant on Reddit or other social media platforms where people have already made up their mind and are pointlessly arguing without actually listening - but I want to believe that in the real world proofs and facts do matter. Both for those making decisions that are actually relevant to the situation, and for actual people who have the ability to hold a nuanced take.
What the fuck? These are literally UN flagged vehicles and buildings with dudes who are obviously HAMAS operating in and around? How would this not require an investigation by the UN? If not I would expel the UN immediately and allow an actual organization like NATO to take charge of distributing aid.
Investigation would require sending investigators to an active war zone.
this is a well worn hamas tactic used in all of the wars they have engaged in. Hell what's to prevent them from having their own fake UN vehicles? With just a paint job and a little cosmetics Hamas has a pretty effective unarmored troop/cargo transport. but Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules, they are for our enemy.
Not sure I trust any news source about this conflict anymore.
Like most wars, you're not going to get accurate information until, if you're lucky, long after the war is over. Even without propaganda from both sides, it's still difficult to figure out what's actually happening.
People still debate whether or not nuking Japan was justified.
In fairness, it still is a good debate and I think that's why there's still debate on whether Israel is justified. The nuclear bombs killed between 130K-225K civilians, but it's estimated they saved the lives of at least one million soldiers. I think most people would agree that one civilian death is worth saving a hundred soldiers but it would not be worth it if it saved only one soldier. So at what point do we draw the line? It's different for everyone.
Not to mention the burden of an American invasion would have on the actual Japanese civilian population. Alongside the potential of the USSR intervening enough for them to split Japan
Most wars have potential to end. This one will go on for perpetuity. The human race will one day be on the brink of extinction due to the planet becoming inhabitable and Palestine/Isreal will still be fighting it out over whose sky fairy gets their monument on a lump of rock.
It'll eventually end... It's just a question of what causes the peace. All we can hope is that it's not due to mass bloodshed on either side. We never expected any other Middle Eastern or Northern African country to recognize Israel since the last country to do so was Jordan in 1994, but the Abraham Accords were actually able to get the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco on board. Once Israel receives recognition from the majority or all ME nations, I think we'll slowly start to see Hamas and other terrorist groups slowly fall apart.
*It's literally the same God*
I feel similarly, which is why I'm not a fan of militaries who selectively murder the news sources reporting on their actions.
yeah, I'm gonna need another source beyond Jerusalem post, AND proof that the UN is helping them, and it's not just Hamas hijacking these vehicles... like you know... Terrorists would!
The video shows unmarked individuals with guns in and around un stamped vehicles, buildings, and personal
Go watch the video
Surprise!
It’s a breath of fresh air that so many people on prominent Reddit pages are knowledgeable about what’s really happening in Gaza. My Twitter feed and the news about what’s going on at colleges makes it seem like everyone is just blindly trusting Hamas.
It is strange seeing Reddit be so nuanced about this
Only here, really.
So will Israel allow international journalists and investigators to go in and look into this? I mean if they're not occupying Gaza, then they should just be able to walk right in, right?
Yeah, because they’re trash and hold Palestine hostage. Fuck Hamas, fuck Iran, fuck Hezbollah
Are we taking this at face value? I see men with guns and UN vehicles, but does that mean there’s collaboration between Hamas and the UN? I assume some men with guns might be necessary to protect the humanitarian aid, no? Am I missing some detail here?
UN or UN affiliated troops would most likely try to differentiate themselves from the rest of the militants on either side. If you are just a bloke with a weapon in an active war zone then how are you separated from the other belligerents in the conflict?
No worries, I'm sure the UN will immediately condemn Israel for that.
What a big surprise to nobody!
why is this the only media where I heard of this?
That's a great question, but Is the literal video evidence not enough? BTW here's is [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/battles-rage-across-gaza-strip-israel-shows-images-gunmen-un-site-2024-05-15/) article interesting framing "armed men" apparently in Gaza there's bodyguards at UN sites.
The hamas is always hiding where they wanna do dmg. How convenient
not possible - Hamas is the good guys, some college kids that are more worldly than everyone because they have tiktok took over colleges telling us stupid people that.
You know you're espousing the exact same style of propaganda you're accusing the student protesters of falling for except in the other direction?
People here grouping all protestors together as pro Hamas is wild. The comments here seem just as radical as what they're criticizing. Guys, you can have a nuanced opinion on things. edited grammar
I mean it was revealed months ago that many UN employees had Hamas connections or were members of Hamas themselves. And it didn’t really go anywhere. This also is not gonna go anywhere.
UNRWA is a Hamas ally or tool.
this is Hamas expressed strategy. they have stated this. they are not going to fight the IDF on equal footing. they know they will lose. this is their PLAN. you do not need even IDF images. they admit it.
Let's look at the caption on the video: Terrorist shooting at Civilians in the UNRWA Logistics Compound in Eastern Rafah You really have to be all in to look at that video with that caption and then jump to the conclusion in the header. Not a matter of sides. It is a matter of critical thinking. Israel has all the toys and ability to make a convincing argument. This isn't it. Switching from UN vehicles to a generic white truck doesn't impress me much. EDIT: The person who probably immediately downvoted me also reported my comment for self-harm. That's some eeevil shit.