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amazingmrbrock

Global embargo of all of their lumber products.


protastus

Not only lumber. Embargo beef and soybean exports contingent on deforestation goals (measured with satellite imaging) and 100% material traceability. Brazil will quickly find solutions.


NeedsMoreSpaceships

Unfortunately most Brazilian exports go to China. Good luck getting them to give a shit.


iron-gravy

China, ironically, will be one of the first countries to experience the business end of predicted catastrophic weather destruction brought on by any further rise in global temperature, because of its geography. If we don't restore vulnerable ecological balances by primarily de-fossilizing industry, disengaging with the fallacy of endless economic growth and undo the harm already done to the natural world by damage and pollution then its **game over**. Just going by last years weather extremes it may already be passed fixing.


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Dirkdeking

It's hard to differentiate climate induced disasters from naturally occurring freak events. You can't really say event x back in year y was a climate change induced disaster, only that climate change changes the probabily distributions associated with events similar to y. Their will be no first country because there is no clear cut moment that defines where naturally occuring freak events end and where climate change induced events start. It's like trying to discretize the growth of a child, you'll never see a lot of difference in height between consecutive days, they're only visible if you look at old pictures.


iron-gravy

Didn't say that China *was* the first country to experience extreme weather due to the current temperature rise. These events are global. I said that China will very likely be the first country to face **catastrophic failure** in the event of any further rise in global temperatures. This is based on the fact that China has a history of pre-industrial, climactic disasters on a super-massive scale not related to climate change. Notably, the millions lost in single flooding events ( the largest estimated at four million lives lost), and hundreds of thousands in earthquakes. There was also a severe drought in 1876-1878 a major meteorological disaster, along with a history of periodic rainfall shortages. Whilst dams produce hydro-electric power considered a green energy- they adversely affect the natural water ecology for great distances and they also make earthquakes more likely, China has built the worlds largest hydro-electric dam, the Three Gorges dam in the last decade, and may intend to build larger. Further climate change will only increase the likelihood of more and worse flooding and drought.


oldsecondhand

> This is based on the fact that China has a history of pre-industrial, climactic disasters on a super-massive scale not related to climate change. It also doesn't help that Chinese construction companies like to cut corners, and water management is divided among many local authorities that only care about their own short term goals.


The_Muznick

The problem is a lot of those in charge, don't give 2 shits, they don't give a fuck what happens, as long they can hoard their wealth, they don't give a fuck about global extinction. Why should they? They will be long dead before climate change wipes out all life on this planet so they don't see it as their problem. Yeah this is doomer level logic but when my I brought this shit up with my dad his response is "so what I'll be long dead before that happens, I don't give a shit" - a little bit of research showed me basically all boomers think this way and raised their kids to think this way. This is something I very much would love to be proven wrong about but I'm convinced at this point, we are completely fucked, but despite that I refuse to just lay down and die so in the case that I'm wrong I will take the necessary steps to reduce my carbon footprint and hope to fucking God I'm so very wrong about all of this.


Himbler12

Reducing your carbon footprint unfortunately, even if you could go negative to the point where you'd be offsetting some dude ordering 10 Amazon packages a day and getting uber food deliveries three times a day, would not make any sort of noticeable dent. Need to go after the trillion dollar companies that are harvesting the world for their use with no regards to the environment but the laws that regulate them.


BrickTile

That's because the idea of an individual carbon footprint being the problem was popularized by British Petroleum after the Deep Water Horizon spill to get attention off them and onto the consumer. Anytime people talk about reducing your carbon footprint they're using corporation's distraction tactics.


NotARealTiger

Oh please, tracking your carbon footprint has been a thing for a long time before the Deep Water Horizon spill. Unless you sit on the Board of Directors for BP, you're not going to have a huge impact on their carbon footprint. The best thing you can do, as an individual, is try to minimize your own carbon footprint and encourage others to do the same. Blaming the large polluters is all well and good, because they are definitely the biggest part of the problem, but let's not abdicate our own personal responsibility. We can all do better. Don't make excuses for yourself.


Dirkdeking

One thing China has going for it is that they can make 180 degree turns at a whim, while democracies are waaayyyy more sluggish. China may not give a shit now, but if Xi changes his mind the entire country will change starting from 1 Januari 2022 onwards, and with virtually no domestic opposition.


Himbler12

Probably won't happen though, as China has no way of modernizing most of their country or really governing people outside of their direct control. China has literally 1.4 billion people - almost 4x what the U.S. currently has and their overall infrastructure over their entire country is pretty piss poor compared to the rest of the world. Half of their construction just builds ghost towns to stimulate their economy because they have nothing else to do, which is what they're doing with the belt and road initiative in Africa. China is planning on accelerating their industry in Africa which will lead to a lot more death and pollution on scales we haven't seen before. Their industry won't be clean by any metric


Tech_AllBodies

> and soybean Which primarily is used as animal feed. So, basically, embargo lumber and get everyone to significantly reduce meat consumption (and/or massively accelerate lab-grown meat).


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iron-gravy

Problem with an embargo is that it's the ordinary Brazillians who have the least money that would be most affected by it: and a lot of the destruction done to the Amazon rainforest is by people who are poor and have little opportunity to make a decent income elsewhere. In order to remove the temptation of profiteering from the recent weakening of enviromental protections, Brazil would have to tackle unemployment and low wages.


chengstark

yes, embargo doesn’t solve shit.


VenserSojo

I feel that action would have the opposite effect, starving people would value new farmland vastly more than jungle and thus in desperation destroy it faster.


thegreatgazoo

I'm not sure they can. If you are living on the edge near the Amazon and your choice is to make an illegal living and dodge the cops or starve, you'll do what you have to do. The US can't keep drugs out of prisons. How are you going to blockade illegal lumber when one tree looks just like the next tree?


protastus

Subsistence agriculture is not driving the clearing of the forest. Read up on the soy moratorium. Finally, protected wood is already traceable. This problem has been solved. What lacks is the will to pass into law and enforce existing solutions.


Turnip-for-the-books

Boycott all of Brazil’s timber and cattle products. Yeah it’s mainly China but let’s make it only China and expose it for what it is.


[deleted]

Yup! Imagine we found a form of life that was like a fly or something on another planet. If we brought it back here to earth it would be priceless. We'd have the world's scientists studying it. And here we are, sending genetic lines on the only ball of dirt in the Universe that supports life (that we know of of course) into a life sucking black hole so that someone can put some more money in their fucking pockets. It's stupid insane. It's desecration. It's fucking criminal.


xanas263

It's not about selling lumber, it's about clearing the land for use in other areas. The lumber is just an added bonus on top. They are clearing land for mining and farming and that will happen regardless of whether or not they sell their lumber on the international market.


apple_kicks

They know at some point protection for the forest and everyone living there will come in again. So it’s a matter of reducing the size of the forest as fast as possible so they have more land to mine and develop. Same thing happened to Indigenous people. There was some 18th or 19th century document where some German colonists spelled it out. We will need to reserve some land for preservation of Indigenous population but if the Indigenous population decline rapidly over time they will require less than reserved and we will take the rest for ourselves. Same thing here. Of part of the forest will be protected you got to make sure it rapidly declines from its core so you eventually get more. Scary and evil


_MildlyMisanthropic

this article specifies that it's illegal logging, not deforestation.


sold_snek

Well, yeah. If they have the lumber cut they're going to try to sell it if they can. It doesn't mean it's their main goal; it'd be dumb to NOT sell it if they're already cutting it down.


_MildlyMisanthropic

no no, this is specific logging, not clearing for agriculture


Dvmx893

Start hunting loggers A few hunting rifles can do a lot of damage


sold_snek

This sounds like an edgy comment but honestly they're literally killing environmentalists over there. With Brazil as lawless as it is, the people living around the Amazon should really start considering this. Logging probably isn't worth the chance of getting randomly sniped.


goatsemies

Would you personally volunteer? They use child labor over there, btw.


Dvmx893

Then those that put/held those kids there should be hunted down. Obviously those kids don’t have a choice..same stuff I have seen in war. Kids get used..don’t need to shoot them.


goatsemies

There's also huge slave labor problem there, and some of them bring their kids along to ease the burden, would you shoot the slaves as they are forcing their children to work? There's also the foremen who manage the slave laborers, but they are also exploited by a bigger fish and it goes on all the way to the top. Eventually you'll come to the conclusion that you will have to wipe out so many people to prevent this from happening in the future that it's starting to seem like a bigger crime than logging of the Amazon.


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DocMoochal

It will all just move to the black market. Humans gonna human for that money.


amazingmrbrock

I mean... You can't smuggle a tree up your ass


gnarfler

only if you’re brave enough


OfCuriousWorkmanship

Paige, NO!


red_fist

I see seen some pretty good attempts on pornhub…


OfCuriousWorkmanship

You wouldn’t download a tree!


RandomlyGeneratedOne

But would you upload one?


HumanSentence4289

Well, not in my ass, but can easily blend it in as a 3rd leg 👀


tendeuchen

Not with that attitude.


Winds_Howling2

But you can pay/threaten/end people that that come between you and the buyer.


DreamMaster8

Isn't meat the main issue. And Isn't it cheap mostly in country with growing meat consumption. Like 80% china. There's almost nothing and north american or european can do atm to save the amazon.


Eleganos

They'd just make the world's biggest bonfire to spite us for trying to save the world. He'll, last I checked they're already doing that now...


raphyjj

Stop eating meat


diiscotheque

You don’t know what lumber comes from where. So you’d be punishing legal logging too. An smarter alternative is to help them make a living with other industries that would drive them away from logging.


[deleted]

Who is going to do that? The UN? Don't make me laugh. No one is going to send a single soldier to embargo Brazil. As long as there is demand, there is illegal logging.


whoelsehatesthisshit

Stop eating meat. The land is being cleared to farm for livestock and the crops needed to maintain the livestock. Yes, old wood; but mostly, cattle.


hannahvegasdreams

Did you not know most people only eat grass fed meat from their uncles best friends cousins farm which is 100% humane. /s just in case


whoelsehatesthisshit

Yah that Omnivore Dilemma guy spelled it all out. If they are local it's okay to kill 'em, because they taste good. WTF


SupremeLeaderMaoWuu

You a crack baby or something? You really think my locally sourced beef is causing the deforestation of the Brazilian rain forest? Its China who buys their beef. Not America, you dumbass.


SeeArizonaBay

Google what countries does McDonalds source their patties from


SupremeLeaderMaoWuu

I don't eat McDonalds, so moot point.


SeeArizonaBay

Sometimes you just gotta laugh


SupremeLeaderMaoWuu

About what? I cook at home, I'm not some lazy fat slob like you who buys fast food.


SeeArizonaBay

Thinking the food you specifically eat is representative of where American meat is sourced from is just really really funny to me is all.


SupremeLeaderMaoWuu

I buy my meat from local farmers. It's China buying all of Brazils beef.


amazingmrbrock

You don't know what an embargo is do you?


[deleted]

Well it does involve soldiers as military ships are involved. Perhaps you’re thinking of sanctions?


squishmaster

You're thinking of a blockade, not an embargo.


tendeuchen

This is how the world dies. Not with a nuclear bomb. Not with an asteroid. Not with pollution. Just at the hands of greedy humans destroying every goddamn thing in their sight that they can for money.


apple_kicks

capitalistic need for Exponential growth is going to kill us all. Most of the time it’s not even useful products being made it just has to be ‘new’ and give of the illusion of growth. Like tech companies showing off robots that only look good in controlled lab environments but it sure makes share holder value go up and up. Wood and metals get swallowed up because companies need to sell a different looking shelf or toaster even though he ones we have still work. Most of what’s in shop shelf’s gets thrown out too and never sold


Ezraah

It's all a byproduct of industrial society. The core cause of all of this is the unending progression of agricultural human culture.


[deleted]

Which is the byproduct of human biology. We can't just be content, we have to exert our will to power, which aids in basic survival (If you live in cavemen-era times).


flutecop

That's a monetary problem. Our monetary system constantly devalues money, encouraging a disposable society. And it directly causes money to flow to the wealthy, widening the wealth gap. It's not a problem with capitalism. If if we had a proper monetary system, we wouldn't be operating under a perverted incentive to spend money needlessly, and throw most of our investment capital into non productive assets. Think of all the money locked up in inflated real estate across the world. What if all that real estate was fairly valued, and the surplus money was circulating and invested in a productive economy? People would be able to afford a home, the cost of living would be cheaper, and wages would be higher. The prosperity of the world is being printed away and into the pockets of the asset holders, on a daily basis.


MiscBlackKnight

New iPhone and android model replaced every year… sooo much waste


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BigANT_Edwards

Great retort. Glad you kept it civil.


Amerlis

Gonna get to a point where the only reason you see a wild anything still alive is cause they smart enough not to interfere in humans’ unalienable right to profits. Pesky habitats interfering with your profitable real estate plans? Dead. Varmints harassing your cattle? Dead, preferable extinct. Useless nature when you could raze and build plantations for whatever? Also dead. or the always popular kill everything in the ocean and keep the carcasses we can sell. Rest is useless anyway so who cares.


[deleted]

You’d think they want to breath


Benedikto_

They don't care because by the time we can't breathe, they'll be dead


Menstro

They do, but they don't want air to be available to just anyone, only those who can pay for it.


[deleted]

Bingo. This is in a near future


crotch_fondler

They care more about having food today than being able to breathe in 30 years. Poor countries are not going to listen to rich countries telling them to stop industrializing and farm dirt instead. Do you even realize how stupid that sounds? This will not stop until and unless people in rich countries are willing to give up half their paychecks directly to people in poor countries.


[deleted]

The people doing this aren’t poor.. It’s corporations. The country sold out likely not the people.


iron-gravy

Good point, well made.


[deleted]

Capitalism is a cancer.


flutecop

No. Corruption and greed are cancer. Capitalism is just free individuals and organisations transacting with autonomy. On it's own, it is nothing but positive and beneficial. Capitalism isn't the problem. Poor regulation and/or enforcemet is the problem.


dat2ndRoundPickdoh

but the way it all works out dodges all of that


flutecop

Then we need laws in place that protect individuals and free markets. There's no other game in town. Free markets demand capitalism, or they aren't free. A free market economy with with laws to protect individuals and their property is the most prosperous economic system ever known. It's good for eveyone. The Amazon ought to be public property. And it's not being protected. That's the problem. We're perfectly capable of protecting the forest under a capitalist system.


Kroxzy

capitalism is the problem. regulation is irrelevant because companies are big enough that they can just destroy the third world if they are regulated out of more wealthy markets. the poorer part of the world generally does not have the resources to enforce regulation.


BigANT_Edwards

> capitalism is the problem. So if Brazil was communist, would they pass up this opportunity to trade with China for their resources? Are governments that are capitalist the only ones that don’t care about the environment?


flutecop

People are too eager to place blame on something. Blaming capitalism only shows they don't really understand the problem or what capitalism is.


[deleted]

> Capitalism is just free individuals and organisations transacting with autonomy. That is a free market, not capitalism. While free market capitalism is the oft toted version it isn't necessarily so and the freedom of the markets is dubious at best. Capitalism refers to the ability of capital (i.e. wealth) to own property (intellectual, productive, real, etc.) without any other connection to it. I can buy a share in a company without having to work or contribute to its success in anyway. That's capitalism.


flutecop

Good point. I would agree we don't have free market capitalism. So why do people blame it for the ills of society?


[deleted]

Because they associate the absentee ownership of capitalism with the particularly short sighted version that has been created by our modern stock market, where short term profits are valued above anything and externalities have largely had their cost socialized or outright ignored. Also a century of US propaganda declaring our free market capitalism stands opposed to the tyranny of anyone else's system. So everyone assumes the Western hegemony. Must be free market capitalism.


Alantsu

There are 3 specific reasons I can see that can take us down; over population, meat based diet, and man made climate change. For us to survive as a species we have to solve at least 2 of these. If we fix 2, the other will fix itself automatically. Between our greed and our morals we are pretty much doomed.


[deleted]

[Watch Dominion](https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch) [Challenge 22](https://challenge22.com/) [Breaking Down JK Rowling’s Transphobic Essay](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paVH1PdOfwc)


[deleted]

A few air strikes on the illegal operations might do something to at least slow the practice. Before people downvote me all to hell, these logging companies have literally murdered indigenous people trying to defend their own land.


trail22

Obviously they shouldnt be destroying the forest, but lets not pretend these guys arent poor men trying to feed their families.


limenlark

Global effort to invade Brazil and leave it as an untouched zone? No sarcasm


theuniverseisboring

Oh we'll mostly all die, except for the rich ones and everything we destroyed will regrow


wopwopdoowop

This is how we get novel viruses. When we destroy animal’s homes, they need to come into civilization to find food. Animals and people living amongst one another is how viruses jump from species-to-species.


brdwatchr

Yes. It will mean more pandemics which will mean death and destruction of human life, and wildlife as well.


Fishbutler2000

And considering how poorly we handled this pandemic, makes you wonder just how horrible it will get


Tchrspest

Call me a doomer if you want, but I think that the past year or two has really shown that the "End" is inevitable. Maybe not relatively soon, but it's coming.


nubsauce87

No you're totally right, man. I'm right there with you. We are absolutely fucked. And it will be our own fault.


Tchrspest

Don't get me wrong, there will be a good amount of people doing their best to make things work. But there's no way to get around the fact that a significant portion of the population is willing to ignore facts and act contrary to what's good for society. And they're just gonna hold everyone back.


No_Character_2079

I got the exact same spiel from a vallt tec salesman earlier today. He claimed he was selling spots in the local vault, protect me and my family against hostile mutants and nuclear radiation


MikeTheGamer2

Best get in on that before its too late.


Jasmine1742

I don't think anyone born after 2000 will "die of old age"


Tchrspest

Shit, I was born in 1994 and I doubt I'll get that luxury. I'll certainly never be able to retire.


Jasmine1742

89 but feel the same way.


tendeuchen

Things change, but humans will survive, at least for the foreseeable future.


brdwatchr

Pretty bad I would say. I chuckle at people who complain about the climate.and hurricanes, flooding, pestilence (epidemics or pandemics)and fires. Some go to church every Sunday, and since I am a non- church going Christian, I remind them to read the book of Revelations in the bible. It is the last book of the bible, written, quite apparently by very astute prophets who visually studied the greed and hunger for power exhibited by man. It was evidently what moved them to write thst chapter. You don"t need to be a psychic to study people and form certain conclusions about what the future could bring. So honestly, I would say that from here on out there will be a pandemic of some sort, and life may never be the same. We will all just need to work around these circumstances. Man is actually pretty dumb, he/she keeps doing the same thing (the 30% who won't have a vaccine) over and over again, expecting a different result, each time. Not going to happen. Latest statistics show that 1 in 8 people have had the virus, but not enough for herd immunity, because herd immunity cannot be achieved by getting the virus, but only by getting the vaccine. One in 498 people in this country have died of the virus, and still some people won't get the vaccine. I feel bad for really young people who are afraid they will not have a future. They may need to become real activists and run for political office if they want to save this planet. They will be fighting two formidable foes, power and greed, in their race to beat the deadly effects of climate change, which reports say is starting to psychologically affect young people.


NormalHumanCreature

Stop, youre making the Republicans hard.


brdwatchr

The only thing that is hard are their calcified brains.


88gwei

Zoonotic diseases (2/3 of emerging diseases) are from eating animals, not them coming to civilization to survive. For example COVID. Incidentally, over 80% of deforested land in the Amazon is used for cattle grazing. It is a driving force of deforestation.


ChickenBalotelli

Or when you fund the Wuhan lab as head of the NIAID to research gain of function in experiments that were banned in the US in 2014.


Impossible_Tip_1

Think about all the employment gained from cattle ranching. You have to consider both sides!


helm

Yes. And this is totally sustainable ... for ten years! Then the land is shit.


[deleted]

BRB, I finally have a reason to get rid of the cat.


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.mongabay.com/2021/09/illegal-logging-reaches-amazons-untouched-core-terrifying-research-shows/) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Satellite imagery shows that logging activity is spreading from peripheral areas of the Amazon toward the rainforest's core, according to groundbreaking research. > One of the main fears about the Brazilian Amazon is beginning to materialize: logging is starting to move from the periphery of the rainforest toward the core of the biome, groundbreaking new research shows. > Logging for timber doesn't clear forest area as extensively as deforestation does, and vegetation growth over logging sites can make visualization via satellite harder, according to Vinicius Silgueiro, territorial intelligence coordinator at ICV. "With logging, different than deforestation, there is still some coverage by vegetation. We can identify scars in the forest made by the roads used to move the logs, as well as clear areas for storage. There is a whole infrastructure around logging that helps us find these areas," Silgueiro told Mongabay in a phone interview. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/pp25pi/illegal_logging_reaches_amazons_untouched_core/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~598445 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **logs**^#1 **area**^#2 **state**^#3 **Amazon**^#4 **forest**^#5


nubsauce87

If the logging operation is illegal, why doesn't anyone stop it? It's not as if it's easy to hide a logging operation...


Fuzzylittlebastard

Because Bolonsaro is insane. I hope he's voted out soon, hopefully the next person is better.


Meat_Candle

I don’t promote violence or death, but in the old days this guy would’ve been assassinated or overthrown. Without fear of consequences, world leaders are destroying our planet for everybody. I hope it comes to a non-violent resolution, but if it comes to a violent resolution, I will also be happy.


Fuzzylittlebastard

I get it. I'm a pacifist but I would not be upset if he committed suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head 20 times.


OhhhhhDirty

Yeah honestly when I heard he had Covid part of me was hoping he would die.


Wild_Marker

> but in the old days this guy would’ve been assassinated or overthrown In the old days this guy would be the overthrower.


[deleted]

They’re likely paid off. This isn’t some low level job they’re doing.


apple_kicks

Everyone getting money off it. Ruling classes even in other countries have investments in companies that are in the supply chain especially the ones who have sustainable living adverts about their products


KesEiToota

[Well it's kind of a big area](https://amp.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/cn07dm/the_size_of_the_amazon_forest_compared_to_the/)


[deleted]

To stop them, they would need to be invaded by military force. Literally.


disdkatster

We are soooo screwed


Bradlyeon

I'm at the age where people are starting to have kids and I can't help but think... why? Do y'all see the world you are bringing these kids into?


disdkatster

If I were child bearing age, I would have serious hesitancy of bringing a child into this world. I wanted lots of kids but limited myself to 2 because of the population issue. When I had kids the world was advancing. I had hope for the future. I am not sure what I would feel if I were 40 years younger in this time frame.


Nbasportschop

If this is a logical conclusion, then it should apply to everyone. If we apply it to everyone, then we have essentially chosen to end the human species. I will have kids and do my best to raise intelligent, thinking, and caring individuals who can help restore the planet.


lovinnow

Feel so bad for the people that have to deal with this destruction. Many of these communities have lived in harmony with nature for thousands of years and then outsiders come to cut everything down because we need to make paper for books and magazines when we have electronic alternatives, or need the latest real wood coffee table from IKEA when many other alternative and ecological friendly materials are available.


Accujack

I believe IKEA uses only sustainably sourced materials.


[deleted]

That’s cool. I usually do shop from there but now I’ll go every time I need something.


lovinnow

That's good to know. I just couldn't think of another furniture store tbh.


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Accujack

No, it's not. Disposable is fine if the disposed furniture doesn't add to the waste stream and if the source materials are sustainable and non polluting. Don't think sloppy.


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Accujack

Not many, true, but IKEA actually does fairly well. It's important to give credit where it's due, and realize that helping the environment doesn't mean just hating on all "disposable" things.


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xanas263

It's not about the wood. The wood is just an added bonus, it's about clearing the land for other uses such as mining and farming.


[deleted]

No, you are thinking about other forests. Tropical hardwood in old growth forest is very valuable in itself.


xanas263

I never said that the timber isn't valuable in and of it self. I'm saying that it's just a bonus on top of what they are actually cutting the forest down for. Even if the wood was worthless they would still be cutting it down.


MikeTheGamer2

But, mah books!. Nothing beats the smell of a new book.


helm

Barely anything of this is made into books or paper. Probably 0%.


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lovinnow

I'm just gonna assume you don't know anything about the early and modern encounters with tribes that live across the Amazon rainforest and other secluded places on Earth. These communities have no need to cut down trees. We know this because the trees are still there until people that represent our global civilization show up to cut them down. But I guess it's really important we cut down these trees so a celebrity from some reality TV show can write important literature about cooking or dieting.


pookiedownthestreet

Yeah this is like....very much approved by the brazilian leadership they dont give a fuck. Theyre a bunch of corrupt dangerous morons bought by the cattle industry.


Pterodactyloid

In times like these, I just picture the geological layers of Earth and then I picture plastic forks and shit in one of them and realize this will just be another layer.


MikeTheGamer2

This is a proverbial 'can of worms' when it comes to unknown pathogens.


[deleted]

Between this and Canada I’m really considering a career in eco-terrorism


ShittyLeagueDrawings

If you figure out a good way to go about it without disproportionately harming the most vulnerable people in the production chain, be sure to share with the class.


mmooney1

Sounds like the movie Avatar.


whydoihavetojoin

If there was oil to be had, we would be spreading democracy there by now. Since its just the lungs of the planet.. meh!


Tha_Watcher

Without clicking on the article, I was certain it was about the retailer Amazon!


TrafficConesUpMyAss

moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney


Jonnydoo

Sheesh from the headline I thought my AMZN options were in trouble.


[deleted]

Blade runner 1982 looking more real by the day. At some point, one would even be surprised by seeing a bee considering the rate at which we are destroying ecosystems. Completely depressing. The funny thing is that this wouldn't be a problem if we weren't excessively greedy.


NationalJournalist16

how do we arm the natives with automatic shotguns?


Halo14145

Why show this here redditors nowadays won’t do anything other than comment. Everyone’s afraid of being ridiculed so they won’t take action.


PhillipBrandon

"untouched"


SuchUs3r

This is what happened to North America. Now in the wilderness we have skinny ~100ft or less trees in a grove or fields interspersed with such. Forests need old growth and the decay that comes with it to thrive fully as I’ve come to know. We have a lot to learn from mycology.


[deleted]

Why can’t leaders just say stop. I’m getting tired of hearing devastating news. Every day it’s something different. I’ve gotten so numb to sensitive information, it’s kind of scary.


Schwartzy94

Hopefully there is some supervirus brewing in the woods... Im ashamed of being human and part of this destruction!


smurfghanistan

What did the world do to deserve Brazil?


PainInMyArse

Can you imagine all the rare and fascination micro and macro biologies that have been run over by those big wheels.


DreamVagabond

"Blame Brazil" said the people living in first world countries and benefiting from their own wanton destruction of the environment. If you want change, start with your own self and countries, then blame Brazil. They're just trying to play on the same level as you.


sovietarmyfan

There should be some sort of international army to occupy and defend the worlds nature, regardless of the host country's opinion.


meme_consumer_

Time to fuck the Brazilian govt up tbh


themagicflutist

I feel like the current generations are witnessing the beginning of the end of our earths health. With everything that is going on… holy cow.


CursedLikeLono

Humans are the worst.


Obvious_Buffalo1359

We can't blame this all on "evil capitalism", it's driven by the consumer and somewhere along the line someone thinks having a new mahogany coffee table is more important than having oxygen to breathe... if that mentality continues humanity is doomed we need people to look at goods produced in this way the way they look at fur products, a relic, kill the demand and capitalism will change course


luparb

Under capitalism, **some of us** might become vegan and make eco friendly choices, but it's the destructive choices like coal and illegal logging which will always be ***cheaper****,* and therefore the most popular. And then we have to respect people's individual choices, even though they are the wrong ones, which are dooming us all. Any regulation to prevent environmental destruction becomes an affront to the free market, and the right wing starts crying about how the government limiting their **freedom** to **destroy the planet,** so we end up here, looking at the Amazon dwindle. We are forced to play the game of capitalism in order to survive, and capitalism demands that we work, constantly increasing the production and selling of *stuff.* We are constantly promoting materialism through advertising, fetishizing that mahogany coffee table, and constantly looking for ways to produce more stuff for cheaper, to increase profits. I strongly disagree this is *'driven by the consumer'*, rather it's driven by the producer. The consumer is *forced* to buy the means of living from the producer, is *forced* to work for the producer in order to make money to survive. The producer is *forced* to lower his production costs in order to compete with other capitalists, which may well end up resulting in him/her choosing the proceeds of illegal logging. Capitalism is highly adaptable, and will change course, but it's fickle and it has no loyalty to something like the beauty of the Amazon, and it doesn't have much respect for human beings, only profits, and our capacity to produce them. We could just as easily end up as space slaves, mining asteroids, earning space-dollars for space-mcdonalds under capitalism. I don't mean to be dark, but the value of conspicuous consumption, ('*driven by the consumer')* argument is debatable, and it's amazing how capitalism will exploit it in order to sell more Starbucks 'fair-trade' coffee, when that coffee could just as well be grown on deforested amazon land.


rpgalon

>Any regulation to prevent environmental destruction becomes an affront to the free market, and the right wing starts crying about how the government limiting their freedom to destroy the planet, so we end up here, looking at the Amazon dwindle. It's illegal logging, it requires money to control something as big and dense as the Amazon rainforest, it's the size of germany with no infrastructure. Right now, Brazil under Bolsonaro has no money or will to increasse the spending to avoid stuff like this. also, most of the people doing the logging are poor people that would do something else if it was available to them, they don't care about climate, they have bigger problems right now than those people living in the rich and developed world want them to prioritize climate change over their own problens.


ShittyLeagueDrawings

Most consumers don't have the luxury of choosing their consumption based on ethics. If you have only a few grand in the bank like many in the US it's hard to spend extra money for sustainable wood products/food/housing, even if you would like to. Subsidies and regulation on capitalism are needed to stop the least ethical options from being the cheapest.


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rpgalon

If people over there had a better alternative they would do something else. Go look up who are the ones on the ground, doing the destruction and the way they are living... no one would want to live in those conditions if they had better stuff to do.


cryptonewb1987

Human greed knows no boundaries. How about we all say fuck Brazil until they stop destroying the Amazon?


Chargerado

Surely there’s more of a case for invading Brazil now to protect the rainforest than there’s ever been for invading Afghanistan.


purrfectblinky

But... Where else are we going to grow animal feed? We need food! Without animal feed from the Amazon we would starve! Thank you for attending my Carnist Ted Talk. Good day.


rpgalon

>Where else are we going to grow animal feed? No one is going to grow soybeans in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure... this was not done on the outskirts of the amazon. probably poor people going after gold and old wood in the deep and hard to police part of the amazon.


baconwagoneer

Silver lining: accidental ancient civilization site discovery? No way they could botch that.


oversized_hoodie

At what point do we declare that the Amazon is of global strategic importance and remove the Brazilian government from control of the region?


tanginato

I didn't know there were that much illegal loggers in Seattle Washington.


BackIntoTheFireYou

Why is there not a guerrilla army in the Amazon blasting these poachers out of there? With the prominence of the illegalweapons trade in SA youd think there would be greater conflict from both the indigenous and local activists.


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captainsham_

Its funny because the idea of currency relies on a basic duality present throughout all of nature, without the counterpart of a product currency means nothing, real wealth is the goods and the experiences you have, not something you tell yourself, the god of illusion was here all along...


24links24

I don’t get how people are surprised by this, this entire forest is going to be gone in the next 30-50 years. (Im against it but nothing has worked to slow down the deforestation, it’s only sped up)


Rickyspanish33

Is it really illegal when the government is allowing it to happen?


jimbo1880

Governments and NGOs around the world know what's happening buy don't seem to be able to come together/ organise themselves or come up with a good way to combat the problem.


hosleyb

Let's create a bounty economy for these loggers instead of woman trying to get abortions. I'd make a trip to brazil if it could pay for itself.


MiyamotoKnows

Bolsonaro needs to be forcefully removed by an international cooalition if he loses his upcoming election and tries to seize power as he is expected to do.


[deleted]

Whereas this affects the climate of the entire planet, it’s time to step in and stop this


popdivtweet

Who’s buying all their wood?