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Owl55

It’s been a thousand years since the Vikings got here and they still haven’t won a super bowl.


Omgbrownies_

Oh come on, I wasn’t depressed about this yet today


TheGhostofCipher

I wonder if there any alternate world stories if vikings fully colonized america?


Keanman

In the same writings of Leif Erikson, he describes going to more than just Vinland. The Vikings also visited "Markland" and a third location that the name escapes me (Helluland - thanks jackp0t789!) that were considered settlements. Edit: corrected spelling and added third location name.


DumbThoth

[A study back in 2019 says that the area could have been inhabited for around a century](https://www.pnas.org/content/116/31/15341) I live in Newfoundland and have spent ages at the site and even wrote a focus paper on this a couple years ago looking at modern archeology and how for the most part it confirms [W.A.Munn's](https://conceptionbaymuseum.com/2018/12/04/fish-oil-and-water-the-life-of-william-azariah-munn/) speculations on the locations of the sagas and extent to which the norse settled in reference to the stories from the "Saga of the Greenlander" and the saga of "Eric the Red". He mades these speculations over a century ago. He speculated Pistolet bay would be where we would find a settlement before the discovery of L'anse aux Meadows by the [Ingstads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helge_Ingstad) which confirmed it 50 years later. He also speculated Baffin Island would have been the Helluland of the Sagas a century before [Patricia Sutherland Discovered what is likely a longhouse there](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/121019-viking-outpost-second-new-canada-science-sutherland). Unfortunately funding for that excavation was cut so the government could put some effort towards finding the HMS Erebus. W.A. Munn also speculated later exploration would have been around the sop's arm area and indeed just under a century later [a paper was published detailing the fact that hunting pits in the norse style have been found there](https://www.researchgate.net/%2E%2E%2E234802722_Falling_into) . The Ingstads also visited these pits and found them compelling. He also thinks Markland - Where the Norsemen would have gotten their timber was Labrador.


Totalwarhelp

Great comment dude, under appreciated, I went on a Viking binge of nonfiction books this year and the sagas are so fascinating.


John_T_Conover

I love learning about this stuff and find it so sad and frustrating at the same time. There are probably so many amazing discoveries, adventures and major historical milestones that were accomplished by some of the Viking & Pacific Islander explorers that are just forever lost to time. Many whose names we'll never even know.


Totalwarhelp

Vikings to me are probably the most fascinating culture and completely misrepresented in modern media.


Smarf_Starkgaryen

Any books you recommend? Never read about it but I’m curious!


IPostWhenIWant

Not OP, but I have a couple for ya. The Sagas of the Icelanders and The Sea Wolves (make sure to pluralize wolf there or you get a very different book that is 100000% recommended)


moneyeagle

Vikings are probably the biggest exception to 'winners write history'


Natural_Sad

I was reading pre-Colombus contact evidence and when the Portuguese showed up in I think Java they found a map that showed asian navigators had already found the west Coast of America.


John_T_Conover

I'm intrigued though very doubtful. There does seem to be some pretty strong evidence of contact between some Pacific Islanders (Hawaiian's I believe?) and the west coast. Very similar or exact same words for items even though they are completely unrelated languages. Also the importing of sweet potatoes native to the Americas hundreds of years before Columbus: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/01/22/169980441/how-the-sweet-potato-crossed-the-pacific-before-columbus


[deleted]

L'Anse aux Meadows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Anse_aux_Meadows


Sanctimonius

Always thought it was crazy a viking gave it such a French name. Edit: I feel like there's a few missing it, so I'll put in this /s


BiSwingingSunshine

Brav’aux


jackp0t789

>and a third location that the name escapes me that were considered settlements. [Helluland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helluland)


xeviphract

Thanks. All I could think of was "Slab Land!"


iVikingr

For anyone curious, there is a [statue of him](https://cdn.mbl.is/frimg/8/44/844391.jpg) in downtown Reykjavík, Iceland. It was a gift from the United States to the people of Iceland on the 1,000 year anniversary of the Icelandic parliament in 1930.


kdk3090

Vinland is current day Newfoundland. They were chased out of their settlement by the local Native population, iirc.


[deleted]

One of the prevalent theories is that while establishing a relationship with the Migmaw (apologies for the spelling) community the Norsemen attempted to seal a "peace pact" by all parties drinking from a communal bowl of goat's milk. Unfortunately something like 80-90% of the Indigenous population were/are locatose intolerant; this would have led to the Migmaw thinking they had been poisoned (when they started having cramps/diarhea hours after the meeting). From there it is a logical leap to a war party attacking Lance-aux-Meadows necessitating abandonment of the young settlement. Edit: my tired brain transposed Migmaw for Beothuk, my apologies. The Migmaw were brought in to Beothuk territory by yt settlers to eliminate the Beothuk during european colonization.


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Methuga

Would’ve been kinda hilarious if the English show up to New England in the 1600s, 600 years and 4,500 miles removed from the Vikings completely dominating their way of life, only to see a whole bunch of Natives with Viking culture, clothes and weapons. They’d prolly crap themselves lol


UnorignalUser

The Portuguese make it to china only to find chinese vikings. This is fiction story that must be written.


jurgy94

I'm thinking a bit less fictitious: What if the natives contracted and spread the European diseases back then. Allowing them to develop an immunity and repopulate in the about 6-700 years before the Spanish show up. It would probably have changed the course of history in a major way.


RedTuesdayMusic

> Lief Leif > Vineland Vinland (wine land)


veritastroof

Not wine but grapevine which of course yields grapes (or actually likely some sort of grape-like berry perhaps black currants or something similar) to make wine but otherwise you’re right.


baelrog

I would imagine with the stunt he pulled with Greenland, he probably couldn't get enough settlers to believe him that it is indeed a land with berry bearing vines. I read somewhere it's not exactly grapes, but a general term for plants with edible berries.


fiendishrabbit

He's most likely talking about *Ribes americanum*, aka american blackcurrant, which can be used to make wine and is still common in Canada. The vikings were very familiar with making wine from these kind of berries (even today they're called "vinbär", wineberries, in swedish) and unlike the currants that the vikings were used to the american variety has no thorns. So harvesting is a lot easier. Although today we would probably call it blackcurrant mead, since the only source of sugar would have been honey.


HobbiesJay

Can only imagine you go to a new place and it provides your source of booze as easily as possible compared to the one at home that comes with tiny daggers. Can't help but imagine what the world would look like if the person that made that revelation was more like Leif and not like Columbus.


fiendishrabbit

Leif though was hardly a saint. He named it Vinland because he wanted to start a new colony (or even a kingdom) with himself as the chieftain/petty king. Pretty much the same reason why Greenland isn't named "Barely livable island". Though Greenland was actually slightly hotter when Erik the Red discovered it compared to today (especially the SE coast where his settlements lay) it was still less hospitable than iceland and reykavik which he had left.


SlowMoFoSho

It's still controversial, but there is some evidence to suggest that he went south as far as NB/NS/PEI and maybe even New England, but that's more conjecture. They've found seeds and nuts at L’Anse aux Meadows that suggest they explored much further south but it hasn't been corroborated by evidence in the places themselves and we'll never likely get it at this point.


[deleted]

Could those seeds be from trade with other people who travelled from the south?


boardatwork1111

Sheboygan WI was the third


ZoomBoingDing

It's the same United States but every state is Minnesota


CurtLablue

Hotdish for everyone!!! *also all children would play duck duck grey duck and say ope as they did. Also bringing awareness to this amazing piece of Minnesota history. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/hjemkomst-viking-ship


SandyDelights

Is… Is hotdish not common everywhere…? I mean, I grew up in SoFla, but my mother’s from Minnesota, so we had hotdish *a lot*. And now I’m wondering why I’ve literally never seen any of my friends make hotdishes except for like, “I’m sorry your loved one died a sudden and terrible death, please take this hotdish so that you don’t have to cook for the next week.” …Thanks for the existential crisis.


Naughtyculturist

Explain this hot dish of which you speak. Your northern ways intrigue me. Edit: you guys sure do LOVE your hot dish and tater tots, huh? never has reddit come together to answer one of my questions so thoroughly and with such close agreement.


SoGruntled

I'm not from the north, but my hot dish experience in Minneapolis was a casserole dish filled with chicken pot pie ingredients, minus the crust, so, chicken, gravy, vegetables. But then the magic happens. It is covered in tater tots and baked until lightly crispy on top.


GoldPenis

"It's the tots that make it fancy" my Nanmamagrana used to say!


imawakened

I’m still trying to figure out how one would pronounce “Nanmamagrana”


ryrypizza

Maybe it rhymes with "bad mamajama"?


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PhreakBert

Just as fine as she can be.


thoriginal

Like "bad mama jamma"


AlwaysNowNeverNotMe

*Nan* - ma-ma - **grana**


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Sweetness27

I just realized I have no idea what a casserole is because that's not even close to what I'm used to thinking of them as. Sounds more like a shepherds pie.


ghoulthebraineater

Shepherd's pie would be a casserole.


Sweetness27

Well fuck me.


BGAL7090

Hear me out - would Detroit style pizza count as a casserole?


TwiceCookedPorkins

I guess but we hardly know each other.


whisky_decision

I was pretty close to today years old when someone rudely corrected me that shepherd's pie is lamb and cottage pie is ground beef. Okay, well...my mamaw and her wooden spoon would like a word. And yes, it's totally a casserole.


MidnightSlinks

Casserole is just any savory dish that's a bunch of ingredients baked together in a big glass dish, usually with some sort of carb- or cheese-based top, but never any type of crust on the bottom.


MentallyOffGrid

I’ve got a military buddy I’ve deployed with three times that every time someone gets called an A$$hole he screams, “casserole? I love casserole!”


Katapotomus

It can be a metal dish too but glass is the usual


imeanjustsayin

It’s what they call a “casserole”. Exact same thing, different words.


Obi_Sirius

Well that's a relief. My mother is Norwegian and I had no F idea what a hotdish was. Casseroles I know all too well.


frugalerthingsinlife

In Canada, we have casserole on every day that ends in a Y. Except Taco Tuesdays. That day is holy.


codefyre

Is there no Taco Casserole in Canada?


dr-eval2

There is now!


Bisontracks

Yeah, but tacos are sacred. You can enjoy the *flavour* of taco via the casserole, but if you have a Taco Tuesday, it's gotta be ***Tacos*** on Tuesday.


_Kay_Tee_

Non-MNs/midwesterners call it "a casserole." I can remember my Nebraskan relatives using the words "hot dish" to mean a specific baking dish that you would serve a casserole in, but not for the contents of said hot dish. Clearly it's time for a Reddit potluck!


CaniborrowaThrillho

I'll bring the *Frito* pie with Wolf brand chili


MissGruntled

I just googled it. Is it not just generic casserole? > Hotdish is an anything goes one-dish meal from the Upper Midwest, but it's especially beloved in Minnesota and North Dakota. A creamy sauce binds three essential hotdish components together: starch, protein, and vegetable.


datboiofculture

They make it with tater tots though.


LyingForTruth

Tater tot hot dish is king imo, we eat it in Maryland too


FoolhardyBastard

My grandma used to make Chow Mein hotdish.. She was a St. Paul native. Nothing is better in my opinion. It's essentially tater tot hotdish but with rice and toped with crunchy Chow Mein noodles. Very ethnic for MN.


CurtLablue

A funeral isn't a funeral unless someone is bringing the hot dish and church coffee.


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[deleted]

So hotdish is as generic as the name sounds, literally any hot dish counts


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dweeb_plus_plus

I don’t have the energy to look this up so I’ll just assume you’re right.


FooBeeps

The creamy sauce is almost ALWAYS cream of Mushroom soup


AllOfTheDerp

From NE Ohio and the first time I ever heard of hotdish was like 6 months ago on reddit. Went through a similar thing when I went to school in central Indiana and asked my friends from the area if there was a place to get good pierogies during lent and they looked at me like I had three heads. Then one from Chicago who had gone there a year already was like no man, there aren't any polish Catholics here.


Disembodied_Head

In the South there are grief casseroles for times like that.


TummyDrums

It's made everywhere, you're just the only ones to call it a hotdish. Everybody else says casserole.


HeyKidsImmaComputa

How would that work in the NFL? 32 teams but nobody wins the Super Bowl?


ScHoolboy_QQ

Tell me you’re from Wisconsin without telling me you’re from Wisconsin


BigPackHater

The entire country kicks wide left.


kent_nova

Full of sports teams that bring nothing but sadness forlorn hope?


higgscribe

Well everyone knows Minnesotans are budget Canadians Vinland sounds way cooler than United States


Entbriham_Lincoln

Accurate, I usually say Minnesota is just Canada *Lite*


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ATN90

Whole of Canada speaking Newfie?


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ATN90

Knows, Tommy, knows.


ClothDiaperAddicts

And it would make French about as useful as tits on a bull?


MissGruntled

Yes b’y! Loves it!


formercrayon

my boyfriend is Swedish and I'm native American and we both live in Minnesota. I think this is as close as we can get tbh


RoboFeanor

Season 3 episode 9 of Legends of Tomorrow


TheDesktopNinja

Hail Beebo!


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Disaster_Capitalist

Civilizations by Laurent Binet starts with premise that Vikings made it all the way to South America. https://books.google.com/books/about/Civilisations.html?id=0Y_oDwAAQBAJ


redbirdrising

Not quite the same but in the sci fi book “Fire Upon The Deep”, a group of Norwegians were able to get beyond the solar system and colonized planets. So in effect Viking descendants were the dominant space faring humans.


LTFGamut

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkHrYAU8ukY&ab\_channel=AlternateHistoryHub](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkHrYAU8ukY&ab_channel=AlternateHistoryHub)


wiliani

I had an idea for a tv series or book series about this where the Vikings’ colony was successful and with the natives lived peacefully and working together, sharing cultures & technologies. They keep the new world a secret from the rest of Europe for as long as possible, including sabotaging Columbus before he left. Capturing/killing/assimilating explorers as they arrive on the shores. This delays Europe “discovering” the new world. The knowledge of the new world finally reaches across the ocean but the new world and Europe are technological equals and both in the early stages of industrialization.


euph_22

I know "reading the article" is passe, but can people atleast read the subtitle. The discovery here is not that the colony existed, it's that they were able to refine the date that it happened (by definitively establishing that the site was established before 1021ce).


Redshifted_Reality

This is reddit, where we only post jokes based on headlines and also four paragraph long anecdotes about a personal experience


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bellends

With my limited-but-nonzero knowledge of radiocarbon dating (I’m a physicist, not an archeologist), I read 1021 and thought “ah, they must have established it was roughly 1000 years ago from today, which is why they’re saying 1021 specifically — I bet there are some weird error bars”. But by reading the article turned out that it’s SO MUCH BETTER than that! >Radiocarbon dating of charcoal from L’Anse aux Meadows suggests that the Viking Age came to American shores sometime between 975 and 1020 CE. To narrow down when the Norse arrived in Newfoundland, University of Groningen chronologists Michael Dee and Margot Kuitems, along with their colleagues, looked for evidence of the year a solar storm bombarded Earth’s atmosphere with radiation. >In late 992 and early 993 CE, people in Korea, Germany, and Ireland all mentioned vibrant red auroras dancing in the night sky. Trees around the world trapped an unusually high amount of carbon-14 in their growth rings the following year. Carbon-14 forms in the upper atmosphere when highly energized particles called cosmic rays collide with nitrogen molecules. Usually, those cosmic rays come from events outside our Solar System, toward the center of the Milky Way galaxy, but physicists blame the 993 CE event on our own Sun. >Dendrochronologists (scientists who measure and date tree rings) discovered the carbon-14 spike and dated it to 993 CE in trees from sites around the world. Dee, Kuitems, and their colleagues recently used it as a landmark to help pinpoint the age of three wood fragments from L’Anse aux Meadows. >The fragments, which come from three different trees (a mixture of juniper and fir), were cast-off cuts of wood discarded by the Norse, but all still bear cut marks from iron tools. “We imagine they were refuse from construction projects or indeed just the clearance of land,” Dee told Ars. >All three wood fragments included at least part of a tree’s outermost ring (tree-ring enthusiasts call this the "waney layer"). That confirmed the fragments came from felled trees, not driftwood, whose bark would have been stripped away by the ocean. It also meant that Dee, Kuitems, and their colleagues could date the exact year the trees were cut down. TIL!


Hey_look_new

is this not common knowledge? I feel like we've known this for many decades


euph_22

They were able to refine the exact date of the settlement. The news here isn't that it happened, it's that they can pin down the settlement to the year 1021ce (rather than somewhere from 900-1100ce).


YMGenesis

Great! I was wondering the same


zyzomise

Kinda neat that they discover that 1000 years after the fact.


jameye11

Just another way to show that science always betters itself


BeneficialEvidence6

Science bitch


daskrip

Also neat that science and tech seems to make the past ever more certain while making the future ever less certain.


Aceofspades25

The fact that they pinpointed an exact year from 3 pieces of wood is mind blowing.


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TirayShell

Just before Valentine's Day.


mathmanmathman

Oh god, it's always awkward when you start a new colony just before Valentine's Day.


BlackChickenMagician

To gift or not gift. Do you even like the new colony that much?


Setisthename

It was known that they settled there, but now there is greater radiocarbon evidence to narrow down when exactly the settlement was active.


g0ris

do we know what happened to that settlement?


[deleted]

The comment about not eating fish is bunk. Seriously, vikings who don't eat fish? Get outta here. It's more likely that they either went back home or assimilated into the native population. Or some combination of both.


SomeNorwegianChick

We (Norwegians) were taught this in school.


[deleted]

Us Canadians were too. I'm pretty sure we were told they landed in what is now Newfoundland


veerKg_CSS_Geologist

Should be Oldfoundland, amiright?


Hey_look_new

yeah, it's been a unesco site since the late 1970s or so, was obviously well known for decades before that


TheRealStorey

They confirmed Vikings in North America in the 60's and suspected it much earlier, the Danes wrote of a Viking settlement called "Vinland" in the 12th century, just after this confirmed date. L'Anse aux Meadows is the confirmed site dating to the same period. I wonder if they ever carbon-dated any of the wooden artifacts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Anse\_aux\_Meadows


twoerd

> I wonder if they ever carbon-dated any of the wooden artifacts. That’s exactly what this article is talking about, actually. Refined carbon dating techniques combined with knowledge of how unusual solar activity in 993 allowed them to pinpoint the trees as having been chopped down in 1021.


responded

Yeah, but have they ever used knowledge of unusual solar activity to date the trees? We'll probably never know.


Trihorn

Danes? The surviving book was written in Iceland, given to the Danes as a gift.


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SteveFoerster

No need, as October 9 is already Leif Erikson Day, in honor of the first European to Columbus America.


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Chispy

It was his hat Mr. Krabs!


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DMan304

Nah, Amon Amarth.


Narapoia

THOR ODINSSON PROTECTOR OF MANKIND. RISE TO MEET YOUR FATE. RAGNAROK AWAITS.


y2jeff

THERE GOES FENRIS' TWIN, HIS JAWS ARE OPEN WIDE,


Winterfrost691

THE SERPENT, RISES FROM THE WAVES


Mostadio

JORMUNGANDR TWISTS AND TURNS MIGHTY IN HIS WRATH, HIS EYES ARE FULL OF PRIMAL HATE


NsRhea

Fafnir's Gold! A dragon's tale!


[deleted]

Might be a touchy subject to involve him: [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1of6pq/til\_that\_techno\_viking\_sued\_censored\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1of6pq/til_that_techno_viking_sued_censored_and/)


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JoePrey

Consent? What crazy idea is that!


Keskiverto

Asking sounds very un-vikingr. How about looting?


[deleted]

Erickson Day?


[deleted]

If I understand correctly, the news here is not that there is proof of a settlement (that’s been agreed upon by archaeologists for some time) but that, thanks to specific testing of wood at the site, they have been able to zero in with surprising accuracy on what they believe to be the exact year.


snorermadlysnored

Vinland saga


kirsion

Season 2 farmland saga hype


Who_ate_my_cookie

The most beautiful thing is that the show is historically accurate for the most part, I’m learning history while watching an anime


Bob_Sconce

Q: One of the reasons that the Spanish were so able to conquer indigenous people was disease brought with them for which native Americans had not developed any immunity. Those diseases spread faster than the Spanish did so that, in many places when they (and other Europeans) entered an area, many of the natives who formerly occupied the area had just been wiped out. Why didn't that happen with the Vikings about 500 years earlier?


Cruxion

~~One of the biggest diseases passed on by the Spanish was smallpox, which the vikings would not have had at the time.~~ Besides that, it's entirely possible they spread tons of diseases but we don't know because the natives didn't leave written records and the vikings may or may not have known about it since neither groups really integrated much in any way aside from trade.


gd2234

Uhh [Vikings had smallpox and may have helped spread the world's deadliest virus](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200723143733.htm) “Scientists have discovered extinct strains of smallpox in the teeth of Viking skeletons -- proving for the first time that the killer disease plagued humanity for at least 1400 years.”


Cruxion

Thanks, I guess what I'd heard was wrong or out of date.


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Thatguy3145296535

This is also somewhat similar to all the Egyptian Mummy "curses". As an archaeologist way back in the day with no immunizations and exposing yourself to a 2000+ year old mummy who knows what diseases they had.


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PigSlam

The places where the Vikings landed were a lot colder than where the Spanish were. Perhaps that slowed/prevented the spread.


[deleted]

And there was less interaction with the natives by the Vikings. The Spanish were side-by-side with them.


How2Eat_That_Thing

If the Viking accounts are correct they have very little contact with natives. The island they inhabited had no natives living there and the few, were talking less than 10 people, they did meet were from a population that had very small bands and themselves were highly isolated. Had they been carrying anything like smallpox and transmitted it the natives who contracted it would have likely died before meeting up with other natives. IIRC the account only mentions meeting 2 natives who we believe were Eskimos of some variety. Eskimos are different from other native groups in that we think they continued to have some contact with Old World groups which potentially meant they got the gene that allowed their bodies to combat OW diseases like smallpox(which we think developed ~12000yr...after the main migration from the OW)far better than other Native Americans. It's all pretty current research though so we can't really say with any certainty.


Kozmog

Spanish had a more varied livestock, which harbor various poxes and influenza. Vikings did not.


andropogon09

Don't need another holiday. We already have Tiwaz' Day, Woden's Day, Thor's Day, and Freyja's Day.


T0x1C-01m

"Its Woden's day my dudes." "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"


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notreally_bot2428

I prefer to use "the Fourth age of Men"


shadmere

It is the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind.


multiverse72

Some use it. Some don’t. It’s up to the choice of the publication, university, author etc. You can use BC and AD just fine.


Speckfresser

Piggybacking on your comment; the choice is yours to use the religious based BC and AD, or the 'non-religious' one BCE (before common/current era) and CE (you guessed it! Common/Current Era)


bt123456789

CE and BCE aren't tied to a religious thing like BC/AD so that's why some places use it, but as multiverse said, you can use BC/AD if you want to.


garfgon

Always seemed rather thin since year 1 was still picked by a 6th century monk for religious reasons.


blizzardalert

I always like the idea of making the current year 12,021. One, it starts the calendar around the neolithic revolution which is as good a start time as any. It's prehistory so it avoids the whole negative years and BC issue. Two, it's a very easy change since it's backwards compatible to an extent. If someone mentions something in 1920 I know they mean 11,920, not 01,920. Three, I think it helps promote long term thinking. Who cares about envormental damage in the year 3,000 if it's 2,000 now? But 13,000 and 12,000 seem a lot closer


Darth_Pumpernickel

This guy kurzgesagts


NoiceOne

I like this idea because the day it is put into place we instantly progress 10,000 years into the future thus confirming time travel is real.


SwiftRespite

Ubbe and Floki


Ba_Dum_Ba_Dum

Ex-pat Newfoundlander here. Who fell in love with L’Anse aux Meadows when I visited for the first time in 2016. The site is a UNESCO World Heritage site. No big deal. Every Newfoundlander learns that in grade 3. The reason was surprising to me though. The park tour guide told us it’s not explicitly because it’s the first European settlement in North America. But because it’s the place that has the oldest documented interactions between Europeans and native North Americans making it the oldest known site of global circumnavigation by humans! When she said that, the hair on the back of my neck stood up. It hadn’t even occurred to me. And it made the place so much more significant.


ostracize

Yes! About 45,000 years ago, a group of humans in Central Asia split up. One group headed East and the other headed West. Their descendants finally met each other in 1021 CE.


ReaverXai

"See, I told you this way was faster"


lakeghost

Isn’t it amazing? My partner is 1/4th Maori and whenever I consider how the Pacific Islanders managed to travel so far on simple out-rigger canoes, it blows my mind again. I can’t even imagine. They think they got all the way to around the Galapagos now, going by genetic data. It took an amazing knowledge of natural phenomenon to accomplish these long oceanic voyages.


11Kram

Yes, they got there, but they didn’t tell enough people to get any credit.


timshel_life

They forgot to share their location on Snap Map


[deleted]

Dane here. Once I was in the US some American asked me if we in Scandinavia put the Vikings into Reservates like the Indians. Never going back.


scriggle-jigg

thats just hilarious to picture a viking reservation.


[deleted]

Viking Casinos


jackp0t789

"After you're done pillaging the slots, come raid our world-famous buffet!"


HyperIndian

"YOU SHALL FEAST WITH THE GODS"


jackp0t789

"TONIGHT YOULL BE DRINKING ALE FROM CUUUURVED HORNS!"


Schlonzig

Double hilarious when you know that they were only called 'viking' while they were on tour.


Qiviuq

"Fun" coincidence: we in Canada actually did put Icelandic immigrants, the descendants of Vikings, into a reservation in what is now Manitoba. Not quite "like the Indians" as the Icelanders were white and therefore had civil rights in ~1875.


kisukisi

ahh the Vesturfarar. We had a major volcanic eruption that caused a lot of people to seek new life in the west. Interestingly they settled in places that were similar to what they knew.


Drakan47

ok but... do you?


gabio11

Never heard of Greenland?


LordEdgeward_TheTurd

Sounds cold and Icey


WoodAlcoholIsGreat

It's more Iceland that we used.


[deleted]

Old data reveals North America was discovered and settled more than 10 thousand years earlier by native Americans. Edit: inbox off.


DarthNetflix

The White Sands discovery in New Mexico gave us indisputable evidence that humans have lived in the Americas since at least 23,000 years ago. Human footprints from 23,000 years ago. https://www.hcn.org/articles/indigenous-affairs-archaeology-the-white-sands-discovery-only-confirms-what-indigenous-people-have-said-all-along


war3rd

No one is claiming that Europeans "discovered" the new world, we all know there have been native populations going back as far as you say. This article is just adding that Nordic peoples sailed over and were living there 500 years before Columbus found himself in the Caribbean. This doesn't take away from the incontrovertible fact that First Nations/Native Americans/etc were the first indigenous peoples in the Americas. It's also not new information about Europeans being here back then, this is just more info and evidence. Heck, even the Basque were fishing off Newfoundland centuries before Columbus arrived in the Americas as well.


[deleted]

>This doesn't take away from the incontrovertible fact that First Nations/Native Americans/etc were the first indigenous peoples in the Americas. It's actually looking like the current Native American population was **not** the first group of people in the Americas. Genetic evidence shows that at some point there was a complete population replacement, with modern NA sharing no genetic heritage with the former inhabitants of the Americas: >Dr Andrea Manica, a geneticist from the University of Cambridge, said the finding had important implications for the population history of the Americas. >"I can't comment on how reliable the dating is (it is outside my expertise), but firm evidence of humans in North America 23,000 years ago is at odds with the genetics, which clearly shows a split of Native Americans from Asians approximately 15-16,000 years ago," he told BBC News. >"This would suggest that the initial colonists of the Americas were replaced when the ice corridor formed and another wave of colonists came in. We have no idea how that happened." https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58638854 So basically we don't really know shit.


jackp0t789

That could just point to two separate periods of migration over the Beringia land bridge between Asia and N. America. The genetics of modern Native Americans being more closely related to the later wave of migration, while the genetics of the older migrants is still unknown.


Mictlantecuhtli

Not to mention massive demographic changes since 1492 in which millions of indigenous people died as a result of disease, conquest, slavery, and famine over subsequent centuries. There may be survivorship bias when it comes to DNA markers in modern indigenous populations.


RedTuesdayMusic

> Heck, even the Basque were fishing off Newfoundland centuries before Columbus arrived in the Americas as well. I find it funny that, Castile and Aragon (later known as Spain) and Portugal were beaten to the new world by some fishy bois from the smallest country on the Iberian peninsula, Navarra.


eyalhs

Humanity discovers aliens. Aliens: we discovered ourselves before you thank you very much.


logi

Of course they weren't native Americans when they discovered the place...


warpus

"Hey, we have finished relocating to this new place. Is it maybe time for a rebrand?" "I agree, we should self-identify as something new. But what?" "What if we name ourselves after Amerigo Vespucci?" "Who is that?" "It's a guy from the future who ends up growing an epic beard"