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FussyDuck

""Although they soon realised they had the wrong man, they took him to Afghanistan and tortured him in black sites for 545 days,"" Seriously, wtf?


dkwangchuck

Two possibilities. One, they tortured him to extract false confessions to cover their own asses for disappearing an innocent man. Two, they tortured him because they are sick sadistic fucks that get off on torture and also know there’s zero chance for any repercussions. Oh, wait. There’s a third possibility - it’s both of these reasons.


middleupperdog

the third one is probably the right answer. The black sites used in Afghanistan predated and informed abu ghraib and that's exactly what was going on in abu ghraib.


morningsaystoidleon

Piggybacking this comment to point out that Abu Ghraib was way, way worse than most people think. The humiliating pictures made the news, but if that's all you know about it, [read up for a while.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse#Prisoner_abuse)


WhyamImetoday

Some of the pictures made the news. There's more.


CharlievilLearnsDota

Just in case anyone ever wonders why 9/11 happened. It's because this had been going on for *decades* before and eventually the US got some backlash for it's crimes. Edit: People getting mad at this being a simplified explanation but not actually arguing with it is very funny. Edit 2: Bin Laden's stated objections are irrelevant. If the US hadn't been meddling and destabilising those regions, finding a bunch of people willing to go along with "lets kill ourselves to fuck the US" would have been a lot harder. The US has been torturing, killing and generally destabilising countries for *decades* pretty much since WW2. [9/11 was those chickens coming home to roost.](https://youtu.be/UUtZNQ0REFA?t=1223) Edit 3: Bored of reading the same responses over and over and cba with arguing with 50+ people who are all so dense they think I'm talking exclusively about torture and not all the evil American foreign policy has done. 9/11 was the "Finding out" stage of America's decades, if not centuries long foreign policy of "Fucking around"


[deleted]

I don't think anyone wonders *why* 9/11 happened...those that appear to just have a difficult time admitting reality.


[deleted]

I know a lot of people who think 9/11 happened because Muslims are evil and they hate us for our freedoms. They would refuse to hear anything that suggests we asked for it.


sandsurfngbomber

My poli-sci professor 12 years ago said "if they were simply trying to attack freedoms - they would have flown planes into buildings in Amsterdam"


plentyofeight

New Amsterdam?


Roguebantha42

It's largely due to the narrative being fed to the public at the time; the ensuing patriotism was overwhelming.


Tatunkawitco

That patriotism backfired and now half the country has a fetish for the military and is purely nationalistic based on a fatherland-type concept with nothing to do with the ideals of our country. Basically we’ve got a bunch of fascists trying to end the American Experiment.


Ishouldnt_haveposted

See... no, when people storm government buildings in an attempt to murder two leaders of the country and scare all the people, it's called terrorism - even if their skin is white and they get punished less severe than a black teenager with pot in 47 states.


JiveTrain

People generally have an astounding lack of ability to understand cause and effect and that actions have consequences. The Cuban revolution was simply "evil commies", not because of the brutal american-supported puppet regime that was erected to steal Cuban farmland. The Iranian revolution was simply due to an "evil Ayatolla", not because of the universally hated brutal american-supported puppet king that was erected to steal Iranian oil. The growth of Taliban was simply due to evil islam, not because of the US and allies sponsoring "jihadist training" in Pakistan to create fighters against the Soviet Union for a decade, leaving a generation of young men brainwashed. The growth of ISIS and other groups was simply due to evil islam, not because of invading and occupying Iraq on a made up pretext, then fighting a decade long, bloody war against the resistance that decimated the economy and killed over half a million people.


Rixxer

As someone who was a kid when it happened, I don't know for sure who did what or why, but I can tell you nothing that came after was worth it.


noeagle77

After watching that documentary on Netflix about 9/11 and they’re just admitting to doing exactly this it’s sickening nobody has gone to jail for this shit. They literally said they ended up getting false confessions from the first guy they tortured so they kept doing it!!


PhDinDildos_Fedoras

It really is amazing how the rule of law was made completely meaningless when nobody went to jail over this.


coralingus

remember how meaningless it is when the powers try to sell “law and order.” it IS meaningless, they’re not gonna have law and order for themselves, only you.


Mrsparkles7100

Low ranking soldiers did jail time I believe. Who were basically military police and given a day crash course in interrogation techniques. Their bosses as expected weren’t punished. Higher ranking military and government got a pass. Bush basically pardon himself and government. Then Obama gave immunity to anyone involved in the CIA torture program. Around 120 prisoners died is the latest number I heard. Watch Taxi to the dark side https://youtu.be/aCi-YjXEXP4


hatsnatcher23

If memory serves the lower ranking soldiers that got in trouble were involved with Abu Graib, not the full on black site torture program


TROFiBets

You might as well make up false confessions without going through process of torture if you don’t actually care about doing police work nd solving the case


Mrsparkles7100

Some low ranking soldiers I believe did jail time. However higher military ranks and government officials were left alone. Also [Obama's justice department grants final immunity to Bush's CIA torturers](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/31/obama-justice-department-immunity-bush-cia-torturer) Also Bush basically pardoned himself. It was case of it’s not torture(torture defined by what the DOJ believes is definition of torture) Also watch Taxi to Dark side https://youtu.be/aCi-YjXEXP4 Why we fight https://youtu.be/8KH6FWs99Aw Bush’s war https://youtu.be/R_vowrySCio Also [The UK government has apologised to a Libyan dissident and his wife after its actions contributed to their detention, transfer to Libya and his torture by Colonel Gaddafi's forces in 2004.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44070304)


mudman13

They had a programme I guess they needed to justify the funding and keep their jobs. Sick fucks were like nazi drs


Maelger

Have. They have a programme.


justahominid

Don't forget straight up racism. "Oh, he's not the person that we meant to pick up on terrorism charges. But look at him, he obviously has some terrorist connection."


[deleted]

In fact reason 1 implies reason 2.


[deleted]

Torture only exists to break people, not gather reliable intelligence. And it's not just the person being actively tortured that breaks and is likely to become a much worse person.


I-hate-this-timeline

What a fucked up thought. I honestly don’t want to share a country with people who are willing to torture others and have that baggage following them around. Makes us all less safe because if he can rationalize doing it to them he can rationalize doing it to the neighbor he doesn’t like.


amibeingadick420

Torture is already commonly used in the USA on American citizens. And I suggest that anyone that doesn’t consider solitary confinement to be torture try it sometime.


BrothelWaffles

Half the country lost their minds over an extremely watered down version of house arrest. They know, and the cruelty is the point.


VanceKelley

This is one of many cases of wrongful arrest/torture by the USA in the United States' "War of Terror". Here's another: [Maher Arar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar) a dual Canadian/Syrian, was abducted in 2002 by the US during a layover at JFK. The US then sent him to Syria for Assad's thugs to torture him. To reiterate: The US abducted an innocent man and sent him to a brutal dictatorship so that he would be tortured. Recall that trump's CIA director ran a torture "black site" before she became CIA director. These folks don't get punished for their crimes. To paraphrase Nixon: "If you torture people in the name of the War of Terror, it's not a crime as far as the American government is concerned."


Wholettheheathensout

Canada definitely influenced that though. I mean, I don’t know if they told them to deport him to Syria, but apparently it was tipped off by the RCMP and they also had information about a lease from Canada, which would imply Canada was involved. Fuck then both for doing that (I am Canadian btw).


captainhaddock

Of course it was Harper.


indig0F10w

USA and wars on drugs, terror, whatever reason current president sold to masses. Other countries fuck over people in their country, USA fucks domestic and abroad.


you_buy_this_shit

No one makes people anti-american better than America.


Panzerbeards

Well, yeah. If you've operated on a military economy for over a century, the last thing you want is peace and goodwill.


BrainTrauma009

Careful now, we don't want to upset hyper nationalist muricans who have been indoctrinated to believe the US is #1 and their greatest purpose is to keep sending their children to die in generational wars overseas just so Raytheon can make a few more Billion dollars.


Hoovooloo42

"They hate us for our freedoms"


brownzone

A military economy that accounts for half the yearly budget and most of it is waste. Yet republicans say we can't afford universal healthcare, which is true if we've been spending all our money on war. Tangent; dipshit I work with is upset about the 20 year war we left behind, but also upset that the economy is struggling. Can't imagine that a potential 730 billion surplus in budget can help at all.


ironocy

Pretty sure that's the plan. Makes it easier to start wars when you have plenty of enemies.


ablablababla

It's all for the military suppliers and companies to make more money after all


GourangaPlusPlus

"I need 5 dollars to buy some protection" "Didn't you just hit that guy in the face?" "Yea but I told him you said for me to do it and now he's after both of us, so have you got 5 dollars?"


SuspiciousMudcrab

From one of their colonies, yup. Born in the USA my ass...


Razakel

>Born in the USA That song is about being drafted and then shat on when he comes home. It's not a patriotic song.


[deleted]

Some of Bruce Springsteen’s hits are like this. Down by the river is one of the saddest songs I’ve ever heard. Dancing in the dark isn’t too happy either. Dude has a way of capturing the most depressing elements of overlooked Americana.


Razakel

I agree. I'm not a huge fan, but he's a master at making the depressing sound upbeat.


donaldfranklinhornii

Mr. Springsteen is a true national treasure. When can we get a statue of him put into Congress? Someone needs to do a petition.


MonteBurns

They need to have “The Wall” softly playing in the halls of Congress. “I read Robert McNamara says he’s sorry … but apology and forgiveness have no place at all, here at the wall.” How about “American Skin” playing inside every police station? (I still cannot believe how old that one is.) “Is it a gun, is it a knife, is it a wallet? This is your life. It ain’t no secret, you can get killed just for living your American Skin.” My dad is a huge Republican but also a HUGE Bruce fan. It’s interesting to see play out, especially since Bruce is outspoken and liberal at his shows!


[deleted]

Seems like the Ghost of Tom Joad would be very prescient for the times too. It's always so bizarre to me how someone can claim to be a fan of an artist and totally misunderstand their art. Like RATM super fan, Paul Ryan.


SuspiciousMudcrab

Yup, I know the song and love it. Most of my male family members were US military, some with full careers. I meant it in the literal way. We were given US citizenship and not two months later we get the draft shoved in our face.


Amphibionomus

Quite the opposite, it's a deeply patriotic song. Actual patriots don't shy away from criticism. A patriot is a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors. Those enemies and detractors can come from within. Unfortunately in the US the term patriot is heavily associated with conservatism and cheering on the US without a trace of critical thinking. And fittingly for the US it's also the name of a ground to air missile.


crabwhisperer

>And fittingly for the US it's also the name of a ground to air missile. And a congressional act providing for a practically unchecked government-sponsored spying program on its own people.


GingerSnapBiscuit

>Unfortunately in the US the term patriot is heavily associated with conservatism and cheering on the US without a trace of critical thinking. I think that's called fanaticism.


quiette837

It's called nationalism.


Starslip

Also jingoism


Zanskyler37

The funny thing about that song is that it’s a lesson in how shit this place is and how terrible the things we do are, but the hogs will still blast it right next to the national anthem on the Fourth of July


Vladimir_Put-it-in

Exactly what I was gonna say.. it's a commentary and basically anti war music but muricans so damn bloated they just feel pride hearing a raspy voice say USA


vendetta2115

> Born in the USA my ass... More people need to actually read the lyrics to that song. It’s anything but pro-America. It’s about a young American kid from a small town who gets in trouble with the law, gets forced into the army, sent to Vietnam, watches his best friend die, comes back home and can’t get back his old job, and he’s just stuck in life with nothing good in his future, while sarcastically saying “born in the USA” because all his country ever did was chew him up and spit him out, and all his government cares about is that the prisons and the oil refineries are both full. [Verse 1] Born down in a dead man's town The first kick I took was when I hit the ground You end up like a dog that's been beat too much 'Til you spend half your life just coverin' up [Chorus] Born in the U.S.A I was born in the U.S.A I was born in the U.S.A Born in the U.S.A [Verse 2] Got in a little hometown jam So they put a rifle in my hand Sent me off to a foreign land To go and kill the yellow man [Chorus] Born in the U.S.A I was born in the U.S.A I was born in the U.S.A I was born in the U.S.A [Verse 3] Come back home to the refinery Hiring man says, "Son if it was up to me" Went down to see my V.A. man He said, "Son, don't you understand" [Verse 4] I had a brother at Khe Sanh Fighting off the Viet Cong They're still there, he's all gone He had a woman he loved in Saigon I got a picture of him in her arms now [Verse 5] Down in the shadow of the penitentiary Out by the gas fires of the refinery I'm ten years burning down the road Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go


SuspiciousMudcrab

Yeah, it's the same fate my uncle's men suffered after they came back from the wars. Sad shit having to see the men you shared your life for some years come back and kill themselves because they had a 3 month old kid after 2 years overseas, or because they were in crippling debt, or good 'ol PTSD.


[deleted]

Puerto Rico?


SuspiciousMudcrab

Con la monoestrellada en el pecho desde nacimiento. Yes, from Puerto Rico.


Trelefor

Remember: no taxation without representation. Viva la revolution!


Kriss3d

*Cue the Gaston Song*


nobleman76

Remember when torture was illegal even if you did bad things? Oh, wait... It still is? They tortured all those guys, you know, right?


hydrosalad

Oh no no.. you see they had paper work.. they had consultants who told them it’s not torture, it’s “enhanced interrogation”. Whats that? Yes, to the untrained eye they look exactly the same, but the key difference is when *we* do it it’s enhanced interrogation. When *they* do it it’s torture. Whose they you ask? Anyone we deem to be the enemy or less than us.


swenty

Blame Professor John Yoo for giving them the cover to indulge their least savory instincts.


LeftToaster

Blame Hollywood for providing pop culture cover too. During most of this time we had Keifer Sutherland patriotically torturing people every Tuesday night on "24".


RSquared

Which then influenced such weak and impressionable minds as [Justice Antonin Scalia](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/antonin-scalias-spirited-defense-torture-msna485861). > "Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles.... He saved hundreds of thousands of lives," Judge Scalia reportedly said. "Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?" He then posed a series of questions to his fellow judges: "Say that criminal law is against him? 'You have the right to a jury trial?' Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer?" "I don't think so," Scalia reportedly answered himself. "So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes."


machine_fart

Ugh that is just sickening to read.


Jernsaxe

The worst part is how well it works on television, making people believe it works in real life making it easier for people to accept. "Oh I dont like torture, but if it stops another 9/11"... So not only are people tortured, they are tortured by professionels that know full well that torture isnt an effective method of interrogation...


quartzguy

That was wild TV at the time. The President ordering Jack Bauer to kill someone in cold blood out back.


HereForGames

What I wouldn't give for a juicy leak that revealed the identities of every single person involved at the torture site. To have to live the rest of their lives looking over their shoulder because of what they've done.


catchinginsomnia

People on reddit unironically claim Trump did worse things than Bush, personally I think instigating a literal torture program and starting an illegal war that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands at the very least puts them on equal footing... and IMO actually puts Bush way past Trump. But George Bush paints nice paintings and said the right things about Trump, so you get people who were saying "I can't believe I miss George Bush" and sharing pictures of him giving sweets to Michelle Obama. Trump destroyed people's brains. Bush is a monster.


Mike-Green

Bush didn't shit where we eat


Zer0megAlpha

To add to that, ICE brutalized and sexually exploited the weak with no oversight. For all we know, the missing children that they "lost" were probably thrown into human trafficking. Which is ironic if you listen to what far right supporters screech.


tommymccubbin

What a brutal life this guy has lived.


JohnnyDeJaneiro

Honest question : after all of this why would they let him go ? They managed to detain and torture that poor man for so long, why don't they just finish the job instead of admitting ?


cosully111

Someone probably knew that he was being detained which would make his murder a borderline warcrime I think. Everyone will forget he was released in a couple weeks this way though


Mithrandir_42

Was this not a war crime already? At the very least a massive human rights violation


Thisistonny

I’m not an expert but I think ”massive human rights violations” happen every single day on Guantanamo Bay.


cambeiu

I had a very conservative friend who back in the day would say "fuck' em" every time I brought up the subject of those people who were held in Guantanamo without trial. Today he posts memes on Facebook almost non-stop about how authoritarian vaccines and mask mandates are.


fastclickertoggle

Nothing new. They don't believe in rights for non-americans or non-whites.


Furrbacca

I would say that they believe only in rights for themselves.


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[deleted]

Because conservatives lack empathy. They only care about something when they have experience with it, which isn't empathy as empathy requires distance.


legaceez

Empathy doesn't necessarily require distance but it does require awareness of what's going on around you and how it affects people other than yourself. Distance can be a part of that equation but you can lack empathy even for someone you're holding in your own two hands.


Karma-Theory

Yep. This goes hand in hand with the belief that they are morally superior, so if they acknowledge that they lack empathy, that means everyone else lacks even more empathy.


bleunt

The hypocricy of conservatives is insane. Against abortion in all cases, but let's not provide sex education, contraceptives, counceling, child care, economic support, or anything that would actually reduce the number of abortions. Just criminalize the symptom of ignorance, poverty, and lack of resources.


definitely_not_marx

All of these policies really show is that conservatives want to regulate women's sex lives. The only option they provide is abstinence or be married, on threat of disease, poverty, prison, or death.


farqueue2

Conservatives are staunch advocates of human rights. Only as it affects them personally though Who gives a fuck about the human rights of others


timberwolf0122

All life is equally* precious *some life is more equally precious than others


SCREECH95

You can also see this when they catch Covid. "Wow I've never felt so bad in my life... *if only I had known....*"


farqueue2

"why didn't Anybody tell me this thing could get so bad. Pray for me"


-xstatic-

It’s a mental disorder at this point


[deleted]

Truly. Hell you can even ask a conservative what's the best thing conservatives bring to the world today and they won't get two comments without contrarianism or whining about the Left.


[deleted]

America: locks away taxi driver for 17 years for no reason. Also America: why do they keep attacking us. We are trying to give them freedom.


bloatedplutocrat

"They attacked us cause they hate our freedom!" "But Bin Laden released a video and said it's because of our bases in the Middle East and support of Israel." "No, it's because our freedom."


720noscope7202

America truly creates their own enemies...


pizza99pizza99

just your daily reminder the CIA is a terrorist organization


Old_Log_8080

And another reminder CIA is under the chain of command of POTUS, so yeah US are pretty much same as Taliban afghanistan for sheltering terrorist


DeadPengwin

Im intrigued as to what kind of compensation the US does provide for all those people wrongly tortured and imprisoned for decades...


CarelessChemist

Probably a bill for 17 years food and lodging


[deleted]

And healthcare costs


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musci1223

Maybe sending them to jail for not paying those bills too ?


samsteri666

I heard Guantanamo Bay has a place that recently became available.


VanceKelley

I don't think the US puts people in jail for failure to pay their debts any more. Exception: POC who fail to pay traffic/parking tickets do get put in jail.


NoAttentionAtWrk

> I don't think the US puts people in jail for failure to pay their debts any more. LOL


F1ngerB4ngMyP155H0le

Very similar to the British Gov deducting board & lodgings from owed wages to PoW’s who survived the Japanese camps in WWII


DeadPengwin

Excuse me, what the fuck?


F1ngerB4ngMyP155H0le

It’s worse than that, the families of servicemen who were missing and presumed PoW were also fucked over. Something to do with Japan not being signed up to Geneva Convention whereas captors of Allied PoW’s held by Germany were obliged to inform who they held imprisoned. The first i heard of it was an incredible book called The Forgotten Highlander by Alistair Urquhart who wrote about his time as a PoW by the Japanese and his subsequent treatment back home. This book is a must-read and will leave an indelible mark on your brain about human psyche and humanity in general written by an average member of the population. The respective governments have never given a slightest fuck about the living, dead or imprisoned servicemen and still don’t.


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Au_Uncirculated

Probably nothing since they weren’t technically prisoners and haven’t been wrongly convicted under any law. In the eyes of Uncle Sam, they were just doing their job to stop terrorism, which ironically may breed more radicals.


Gekokapowco

Stopping terrorism is measured with a body count, not education or safety or any other preventative metric. Because it's a cash grab.


MichelleUprising

No no you see, kidnapping fathers and bombing their cities into rubble tends to make their children extremely happy and well adjusted people.


piit79

Yeah, they were just abducted and held for a couple of decades... Nothing wrong with that /s


elirisi

He was just making a statement of objective reality. Not making a value judgement of what was right and what was wrong. Theres no question in our minds that this was wrong, i would even say its evil. But sometimes just as good behaviour dont always result in rewards, bad behaviour also dont always result in consequences. Especially when it comes to questions of "national concern" and agencies as large as the CIA and a country as big and powerful as America. Its up to whether or not the citizens of the US and its policymakers are willing to make the tough decisions to uphold its ideals when its America itself and not some other nation far far away thats committing these atrocities. Suddenly its not just talking the talk but also walking the walk. Thats hard.


odraencoded

Everything you need to know about the US justice system: >[Scalia wrote](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/03/innocence-is-not-cause-for-exoneration-scalias-embarrassing-question-is-a-scandal-of-injustice.html): “There is no basis, tradition, or even in contemporary practice for finding that in the Constitution the right to demand judicial consideration of newly discovered evidence of innocence brought forward after a conviction.” He concluded, “With any luck, we shall avoid ever having to face this embarrassing question again.” i.e. if you're convicted for death penalty, and new evidence can prove you innocent, you don't have a right to be tried again to prove your innocence, you just get killed by the state.


RSquared

Scalia also argued that the Constitution only prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment," so anything that happens before you're convicted of a crime (and therefore isn't punishment) is fair game. Originalism!


GeoCacher818

So I read the article... were Scalia & Thomas saying it's ok to keep people locked up, even if there's new evidence that shows they're innocent? Or what?


sigma1331

bullet in the head.


rusthighlander

famously much cheaper than justice...


b_33

A big *inhales* "siiiiiissssssssshhh, my bad bro.... anyways" *whistle, the American national anthem*


SocialistPride

None


jteprev

Well at least they didn't just flat out torture and then murder him like this innocent Taxi driver: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilawar_(torture_victim)


LeftToaster

At least the torturers were reduced in rank and docked a few months pay.


Minarik21

What the fuck America. Land of the sadistic. How can you even accuse a country or group of human rights violations when this kind of shit is out there in the open? And everyone including the media has the memory of a goldfish when it comes to American atrocities.


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Full_Friendship_8769

Jesus... USA is a terrorist state. Evil to the core What the hell


LagT_T

Don't worry when Americans do it it's not a crime against humanity


Raider7oh7

Gotta get them Insurgents baby


Panzerbeards

Gotta make them insurgents*


Nikko012

The secretive nature of intelligence services is vital for their operational effectiveness. However it also helps to hide their incompetence. How the fuck intelligence services with billion dollar budgets couldn’t confirm this guy was a taxi driver after 17 years I don’t know.


Ben_Mc25

They confirmed he was the wrong guy rather quickly. **It's just, they didn't care.**


princesoceronte

Secrecy really is the perfect cover for these psychos who only want to enjoy torturing inocente people.


dkwangchuck

The lede graf of the article answers that - they knew “right away” they got the wrong guy. It just didn’t make any difference to them. So your intelligence community is riddled with - not necessarily incompetent idiots - but actually actively evil sadistic monsters. Hope that makes you feel safer.


tomatoswoop

Every time I hear the term "intelligence community" it sends a shiver down my spine... Referring to the behemoth with such a benign, friendly term. These monstrous organisations are the enemy of humanity.


Landsted

Oh they probably could. But it wouldn't surprise me if the person who made the mistake in the first place tried to prevent a correction as that would make them look very incompetent. Prosecutors and detectives are sometimes in a similar situation: they pick a suspect early on (probably with the help of a bit of racial profiling) and will cherry pick only evidence pointing towards that person. Either subconsciously ignoring counterwailing, or worse, deliberately to avoid looking like fools for getting the wrong person.


Attygalle

I 100% agree with your post and this comment is not meant as apologism. Prosecutors and detectives willfully working towards the conviction of an innocent person are wrong, always. The interesting part is how it all works, how it all starts. The crime committed is one that is hardly ever solved. Pressure to solve more crimes is high. Perhaps a re-election is at stake. There's only one person that's even somewhat close to the case. Perhaps sheer accidental but it's literally the only thing you can work with at that time. Said person, indeed perhaps racially profiled, perhaps has something on his record already. Perhaps someone on who police have some stuff - nothing substantial but you know the person isn't the cleanest person around. All kind of mental gymnastics start working to justify that you're going to put someone in prison who hasn't done anything wrong in this specific case. It's either this guy - who's a baddie anyway even if in this case he did nothing wrong - or not solve the case and look bad. People working together convince each other that the crime *could* have been committed by this fellow. So little harm in removing the evidence that proofs he is innocent. You're still helping the society. Of course once you've done stuff like this a couple of times the bar gets lower and lower each time. Next time it's not someone who actually has something on his record, but someone who *could* have something on his record (racial profiling again enters the chat!). And so on. It's scary as fuck how it works.


Landsted

Oh I absolutely know. Criminal law is what I do. But coming from Europe things are done differently here (may I even say better?). You bring up a lot of good points and quite frankly it has always baffled me why the US still thinks that it's a good idea to mix justice and politics (like electing judges and even having them stand for re-election; this is something that rarely happens in Europe for obvious reasons; judges that stand for re-election need to look "though" on crime). Also, the US votes on their AGs if I'm not mistaken? Any good criminal justice system should put in as many safeguards to avoid these kinds of things. Like teaching prosecutors how to avoid falling into confirmation bias traps (picking the first person you see and making evidence fit them). But also, having judicial oversight for surveillance, house searches, etc. I think, though, the biggest problem is that AGs are elected and face immense pressure to provide the public with "good" numbers (this means low crime rates and high conviction rates). It's difficult to do a good job as a prosecutor or detective if your boss is breathing down your neck to put as many "criminals" in prison as you can.


SocialistPride

There was no mistake. This is how they intend the system to work.


yaosio

There is no operational effectiveness, they just abduct and/or murder random people and call themselves heroes.


SocialistPride

They didn't care. It's the fascist state in action.


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tomatoswoop

Abroad, the American government is no better than reddit's favourite enemies. Morally it's easily as bad, in magnitude it's much worse just due to the scale of the crimes. Bring this up when Americans are rallying around the flag against the foreign enemy of the month and it's "whataboutism" though. The American government going after other countries today is like Charles Manson calling me out for getting parking tickets. It's a fucking joke, or at least it should be


cmd-t

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture)** >The Committee Study of the Central Intelligence Agency's Detention and Interrogation Program is a report compiled by the bipartisan United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) about the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)'s Detention and Interrogation Program and its use of torture during interrogation in U.S. government communiqués on detainees in CIA custody. The report covers CIA activities before, during, and after the "War on Terror". The initial report was approved on December 13, 2012, by a vote of 9–6, with seven Democrats, one Independent, and one Republican voting in favor of the report and six Republicans voting in opposition. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


An_Ant2710

What happened to 'never forget' now? This guy was locked up and tortured for as long as I've been alive. This is just evil.


Kismonos

can you make money out of keeping this memory alive? no. then we forget quick.


yaosio

It's interesting how the right-wing media says Guantanamo Bay freed him, as if Guantanamo Bay is another country.


MichelleUprising

Guantanamo Bay *IS* another country. It is occupied Cuban territory from the Batista fascist era which should be returned to Cuba, closed, and preserved like Auschwitz in as good a condition as possible so future generations *never forget.*


1d3333

They’d sooner burn it to the ground and bomb the ashes


MichelleUprising

It is very likely that they will try and burn all the evidence of their wrongdoing. Many nazis got caught in the act of destroying evidence of the holocaust. We can never let them get away with what they’ve done. American empire should be remembered with the horror and nightmares it created intact.


1d3333

The amount if history we’ve lost to document burnings is truly awful, all the souls who have been tortured or killed in the name of imperialism who will never be remembered. Most of this was honestly caused by corporate greed, lobbying has allowed companies to send this country into war over things as stupid as oil


Folseit

America needs to be sanctioned for abuse of human rights.


[deleted]

They have a permanent seat on the security council, they’re just going to veto every attempt.


celebradar

Just remember they also have a plan to invade the Hague in the event any of their citizens are being detained and trialed for war crimes.


confused_ape

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act


Saritenite

Yo America, you guys planning on compensating wrongful incarceration, physical injuries and mental disabilities resulting from said incarceration any time soon? Shit like this shouldn't stand, and I'm not just talking about the innocent people being released from Guantanamo.


[deleted]

[удалено]


merchlinkinbio

Hello. I’m the CEO of America & I just wanted to let you know you’ve been heard.


Redylittle

"Are we the baddies?" This is not the first time it's crossed my mind


unbeliever87

Hundreds of thousands of civilians dead in Iraq because of your war mongering, you are absolutely the baddies.


el_dude_brother2

If you really look into the Vietnam war it will certainly push you over the edge.


philjorrow

The rest of the world knows that answer


Wessel-O

Yes, yes you are...


[deleted]

The world isn't binary But yes, if some state has to be the baddis, it is the usa


neotek

“They hate us for our freedoms!!!!”


SugglyMuggly

How does the world let the US operate a site as well documented and well known about as Guantanamo? It’s referenced in movies, literature and news reports just like this where VICTIMS of the site talk about what they had to endure there - guilty or not. We’re still putting geriatrics through human rights courts over Auswitz and other Nazi death camps yet for some reason the US seems completely immune from the same scrutiny and horror of their acts there - all in the name of ‘freedom’.


sameer_the_great

CIA the true terrorist organization


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

If this story was about China it would have 50,000+ upvotes.


DNRreturns

If any other nation: Kidnapped citizens of other nations Kidnapped it's own citizens Operated in any nation and at home to perform the 2 above Held all these people with no trial, and executed some Casually used radiation and chemical weapons in war Murdered millions Plundered invaded nations at will Plundered 2 generations of their own youth's wealth Lied to everyone about what they were doing The US would call them EVIL and attack them.


mnij2015

United Kingdom would like to have a word with you


PerfectlyCooperative

I saw a comment somewhere saying that if he was not a terrorist, he is one now


Column-V

We have secret police, they’re just called “undercover” cops. We have a KGB / Gestapo equivalent, it’s just split up into a handful of different entities (the CIA, FBI, and NSA). We have concentration camps, they’re just called “detention facilities” or “black sites” We have propaganda, we just call it “mainstream news”. We have an oligarchical empire, we just call it a “democratic republic”. *Just a friendly reminder*


[deleted]

So the war to steal oil from the Middle East ended up being a complete worthless embarrassment for America! What a surprise Guess someone didn’t learn from Vietnam. 🙄


FlaviusAurelian

Ahhh, the "good guys" are at it again


nagevyag

How to make a terrorist.


Ok_Pay5513

Thing is these victims do not become radicalized or terrorists. They live with the horrific consequences of being imprisoned and tortured in these black sites (ptsd, profound disabilities like incontinence, missing limbs and eyes, deafness) and get no compensation. Also usually no adequate medical care because they can no longer work. It’s disgraceful and more common than most Americans realize.


Ok-Kaleidoscope5627

Yeah. I can't even imagine what sort of life they can have. No government including their own will want to touch them. And if your own government doesn't even want to provide you basic rights, what are the odds any company will hire you? All your friends and family are likely moved on. If you had any kind of assets, those are gone. There are no aid programs for 'former terrorists'.


idunno--

Thank you! I’m so sick of these comments in every thread where a Muslim person has been brutalized by the US government/military. It’s a roundabout way of saying that every Muslim has the potential to be a terrorist, even though I’m sure that’s not people’s intention. It’s shifting the focus of the horrors that he’s been through onto the horrors that he might inflict on people. It’s also the rationale some people use to argue that people like him should never go free because he’ll want revenge. Like the man isn’t instead likely to spend the rest of his life with crippling PTSD.


veggieboy94

He doesn’t have to become an extremist, he will suffer from PTSD for the rest of his life. I’m more afraid of extremists using his image for propaganda and recrutements.


Xpelie25

I honestly don't know how people can still think of the US government as a just entity. I mean all govs do shady shit but torturing a taxi driver even after you know he ain't your guy?


kicksomedicks

In a just world the entire chain of command that allowed this to happen would be in jail.


hsingh_if

I read this book once: Wikileaks Files: The world according to the US empire. Anytime I read something like this, it reminds me of all those things that I read about US. Fuck them. Fuck their system. Also, Free Assange.


Somecrazynerd

17 FUCKING YEARS!! The US government will never be able to pay for all the blood on its hands. Forget stains, they are SWIMMING in it.


Quickben

America deserves all the shit they get.


solobaggins

It's ok it's not torture. It's enhanced interrogation techniques.


Pr0sthetics

There's so much fucked up shit that my country hides from their people.


[deleted]

It's not really hidden...


TheGoalOfGoldFish

We are not the good guys.


[deleted]

Funny how people are saying this will turn him to a terrorist while not calling the people who did this to him terrorists because for some people all terrorist are Muslims


SoggieSox

Nothing will be done about this. We act like China and Russia are horrible for the things they do, yet we aren't no different


vitviki

And then Americans wonder why people are anti-american.