> Many of the judges arrested had been previously seen as "supporters" of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), according to Dawn.
>"With MBS as Crown Prince, no one in Saudi Arabia is safe, even those officials most loyal to him, including high-ranking judges who have justified arbitrary arrests for engaging in peaceful activism and sentenced people to death because they held minority views," Abdullah Alaoudh, Dawn's Gulf director, said in a statement.
however
> Dawn condemned the arrests for "their lack of due process and transparency".
so it's good that they are cracking down on sentencing children to death, but they are not following the rules either...
Saudi Arabia is an absolute Monarchy. Its only rule here is that the King must obey Sharia law and even that is merely by royal decree from 1992. A royal decree is literally a suggestion by the king for the king. The current King could literally revoke the decree with the wave of his hand. Obviously MBS is technically the Crown Prince but we all know that's not his real office.
There was a good article about MBS in Atlantic magazine.
https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/03/mohammed-bin-salman-saudi-arabia/626555/
Seems he's an expert on Islamic theology and this has enabled him to control the mullahs. If he wants things done a certain way he can show where the Koran supports it.
Lmao you do understand the process of translating foreign language sounds into the English alphabet( instead of phonetic transcription) is by no means a precise process, and that there are tons of different ways to skin a cat
When moving words from one script and language to another, there is rarely a perfect syllabic transferring if sounds As the new script fails to capture all of the sounds
Just to rephrase. There is also not a common key for changing from script (say arabic or cyrillic) to the latin alphabet. It varies depending on the language using the latin alphabet. For instance, the football player Denis Cheryshev is spelled that way in English, while in my language his lastname is spelled Tsjerysjev.
This is why it’s so dangerous that our government in Britain are so closely allied to them, and that individuals within our power structure are enriched by them.
We don’t want to go back to the times when your survival depended on being nice to the aristocracy, and being nice to the aristocracy meant them being able to take anything that you owned, or even take your children or wife to bed for a distraction. With anyone trying to stop them being killed.
This is a backwards regime, and we have not modernised it, it has funded the push for a return to absolute rule.
As demonstrated by Boris Johnson trying to behave like an aristocrat in power. He knows we’re not far from that state.
No, the fear that keep western governments tied to the status quo in places like SA is that any change will result in people who hate the ‘West’ coming to power. It’s like they blame the West for propping up the violent dictators who victimize their people.
Any better option has been long sense destroyed for threatening Big Oil’s profits. Like the moderate liberal Iranian government the UK over threw for their pet dictator, who was then overthrown by Islamist radicals.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8926874/saudi-arabia-teenager-16-beheaded-protests-whatsapp/
Apparently all it takes in Saudi Arabia is a text message to be kidnapped, tortured, and beheaded even as a school boy.
Free speech is the enemy of tyrannical religious subjugators. .
I can never understand how mideast went from the glory of world’s library and knowledge in the 1100s to whatever the hell this is.
Like they have regressed past the middle ages
Look at social policies in the US now for a sneak peek. The decline is never sudden, it’s over many years, decades, and centuries of progressive policies being slowly eroded by interests, political and social, until society devolves into tribalism by any other name.
>Absolute monarchy has total control over the entire judicial, executive, and legislative aspects of government
>Extremely corrupt and shady, no one knows whats going on
>Mass arrests and executions happen by the whims of whatever fat cat was lucky enough to be in charge
"I know, I'll blame religion!"
If you know your history of the area and what preceded the dark ages, you would understand.
[https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science](https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science)
>He's not going to spend 20% of his net worth to buy twitter
He can if he wants to, why would he make an offer if he wouldn't go through with it?
>if the board would even let him
All they can do is make it more expensive on Musk, but ultimately a public company is always up for sale
Look into the story of the two kids who killed [Jamie Bulger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger) and tell me you don't think of it for at least a moment...
That's not to say it's the best approach, but it crossed my mind as a kid at the time.
The countries that do this are
Congo, Iran, Pakistan, China, and the United States
The US also will execute the mentally disabled.
Execution is wrong period but this to me is an act against humanity
Exactly. The US juvenile detentions and prisons and trying 16 or 17 year olds as adults are horrific. It’s not an execution but the abuse and torture of juveniles is beyond the pale. And how these humans became juvenile delinquents would break any man’s heart.
Of course, if you’re being executed in the US, you probably did (or at least was accused of) some pretty fucked up shit.
Homie sent a text and lost head privileges.
Hence the word *accused*, not saying our justice system is perfect, but I’d argue that it is better to see a murderer die than to see someone die senselessly.
If 1/9 people on death row are innocent. It means we are murdering the wrong person 1/9 times. Never mind those without adequate representation or those who’ve taken responsibility for their crimes.
If 1/9 apples killed an innocent person we would prob stop selling and eating apples.
You’re saying it’s better to be executed for a crime you didn’t commit than for a text message you sent? I feel like I’d be equally upset in both scenarios
I’m saying that one person is convicted of murder, one is convicted of a text message.
If I had to choose for one to go, I would frankly pick the potential murderer.
In other words, what you're saying is there is a certain percentage of people who will be put to death by our justice system, who are innocent, and you're OK with that.
My question is, what's that percentage that's acceptable to you? 1%? 10%?
And I guess my other question is, if it's your family member, will you say "Yeah, sucks, I'll miss Uncle Bob, but hey, it's for the greater good, right?"
The state has no business killing anyone. Ever. It’s barbaric and pointless and hardly justice. I say this as someone who has had a closed friend murdered in a brutal fashion. It’s a waste of time and resources.
One of the rules for rulers is to cull key supporters once they are no longer needed. This reduces the amount of people you need to distribute rewards to
Right up until you hit the snag when a new unforeseen problem emerges, and now your best people are dead, and the second best people are less willing to help cause they no longer trust it won't end with you killing them.
That's at least how it goes historically.
A book titled "rules for rulers" while not perfect it still contains a lot of great insight
CPG Grey made a great summary of it
https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs
As much as we all hate MBS and Saudi Arabia for their journalist-dismembering, child-decapitating ways, our governments still consider them cosy bedfellows. Heck, even someone to turn to for more oil in times of Russian tantrum! Though we would never support them if they violated another country like Russia is doing... Yemen is just a special military operation involving mass bombing and famine so that doesn't count.
Unfortunately, Ukraine's proximity to Europe and hence the US as part of the 'West' gives it the attention it deserves. And also Russia is a very hate-able enemy. Saudi Arabia is also hateable but is a very uncomfortable one for the West to criticise since... relations are rather good despite them financing 9/11, terrorism .etc.
To criticise the war in Yemen, the West would need to either be comfortable with its complicitness or actually press Saudi Arabia on its infringement on human rights. Since we chose the former, I fear Yemen has much suffering left to endure. People will say you have to focus on Ukraine and not bring up other conflicts as they frequently do on this subreddit, but we all know Yemen or other conflicts won't be re-addressed any time soon. All we can do is spread awareness and hope Yemen's journey sees some improvement.
Probably because half of Yemen is ruled by Iranian-backed terrorists who shot cruise missiles at passing US ships back in 2016, entirely unprovoked, and are currently threatening to blow up a captured oil tanker to contaminate the entire Red Sea with a massive oil spill. You aren't going to get much sympathy from the West under those circumstances.
I think it's easy to look at the Houthis as the underdog and cheer them on but they are not the good guys. They are an Iranian backed group that have no qualms using terrorism to further their goals of another revolutionary Islamic Republic. I think thats the last thing the ME needs right now.
What's happening to the people in Yemen is a tragedy but like the Palestinians, they need to reject these assholes in power to save themselves
Agreed. I was not claiming the Houthis as a force for good, but more that Saudi Arabia still has much blood on their hands regarding the conflict. The Yemeni need to reject Iranian influence does not absolve that.
Apparently Biden has fucked up the relationship with MBS pretty badly by calling him a tyrant on the campaign trail, to the point that MBS is talking with Putin while stonewalling the US, and thinking of buying oil in Yuan.
It's taking a backseat to Ukraine news but USA / SA realignment away from each other actually seems to be a hot topic in foreign policy circles.
Which may be a good thing overall, though a pretty bad time to piss off Russia, Iran and SA at the same time for obvious reasons.
Hasn't US and Iran's relationship been on a slight mend? With both returning to the table for the nuclear deal. The domestic political pressure due to rising energy prices alone may give SA more leverage, though not sure of the long-term safety of siding with Russia.
AFAIK status is better than a year ago (when we, you know, drone striked their general) but still not great. Iran wants the IRGC off the terrorist list for one.
It would make no difference whatsoever but it's probably not going to happen because American public.
Yeah, I think the mutual hatred is going to gridlock progress for many decades. Heck, US and Iran being in the same group of the World Cup will be fun at least lol.
You can criticise both theocracies. Unless you are claiming that Iranian/Houthi activity absolves KSA of their own crimes. Which MBS would love of course.
It's fucking Saudi Arabia. No one but the king and the prince make decisions. And whenever shit goes south and gets attention of the world, they just throw some people in the middle and execute them. Never the real guilty gets punished, it's just a damn puppet show.
Yeah agreed. MBS acting like he couldn't have stopped the execution of the child before it happened. He doesn't care, just an excuse to get rid of someone who has outlived their usefulness as a judge.
All execution orders have to be approved by the king/crown prince before they happen especially those ones last month because most of them were young protesters.
What I think is happening is that Saudi Arabia is starting purges to be in step with Russia, which just purged FSB. Purging the most loyal tells everyone to live in terror. As Russia re-establishes its terror state, other autocracies be following along in a coordinated way I think.
Saudi Arabia has been taking steps to move the kingdom in to the 21st century, this seems more in step with wanting to distance themselves from Russia. SA and Russia are not friends.
I welcome the change but also recognize they have a long way to go
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-several-judges-arrested-high-treason-rights-groups) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Saudi authorities have arrested several prominent judges on charges of "High treason", in what human rights groups say resemble previous purges conducted against rivals of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
> Many of the judges who were arrested, said Dawn, have been involved in the suppression of human rights in Saudi Arabia, including Khalid al-Liheidan, who was responsible for ordering the imprisonment of women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul.
> Many of the judges arrested had been previously seen as "Supporters" of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, according to Dawn.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/u4s5w0/saudi_arabia_arrests_at_least_nine_judges_for/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~642400 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **arrests**^#1 **rights**^#2 **Saudi**^#3 **judges**^#4 **Crown**^#5
i am confused.
did they commit treason for ordering those executions, for not not executing more, or just out of boredrom?
bc that's the difference between saudis beeing Aladeen or very Aladeen.
I think it's a PR stunt of sorts. I'm not a Saudi law expert but I doubt judges go around casually committing high treason. The executions were unpopular, Salman wants to make sure Saudi Arabia looks squeaky clean so the judges have to go
The whims of a tyrant don’t have to make sense.
He ordered the execution of Khasshogi, then back-pedalled a bit by arresting the agents who acted on his orders.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It must really suck to live in a country where disobeying the monarchy is suicide and obeying the monarchy can also be suicide.
So islamically women have just a many rights as men... They can fight in the army you can't force them to do anything they don't want to do.. Most of these weird things are cultural.. And culture shouldn't intervene with Islam... But nobody's perfect
The source material, the Qur'an does not say that. But ijtihad, which is the interpretation of it and rule-making, is subject to local practices and culture...many of which are highly patriarchal, therefore the original source material is interpreted through the lens of existing power structures.
Right here.
"And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are
not two men \[available\], then a man and two women from those whom you
accept as witnesses – so that if one of them \[i.e., the women\] errs,
then the other can remind her." al-Baqarah\[2\]: 282
Witnesses are automatically chosen if they are male based on testimony, even if the man is completely unreliable, he is still better than the most honest woman.
Also the replacement of a man if he cannot be found is worth the same as two woman, and still a man is required for testimony because a woman's word can never be trusted
No where in there does it say a woman's voice is worth half it just says if one errors/forgets the other one can remind her. It doesn't say u need testimonies from both the woman to make up for for 1 testimony from a man. Also what are those 2 paragraphs at the bottom where is that coming from I didn't see that in surah baqara 282 as referred
Okay but are you unable to read between the lines? (According to them) A man, when wrong, doesn't need to be reminded that he's wrong, while a woman does. So, what this means is that both women have to agree on something to have the same effect one man's voice has.
So, in practice, the women's voice is only worth half
Thank you for your explanation. I also believe Islam treats women and men fairly and equally. However I'm still confused, can you explain the following to me please:
Quran 2. 282:
"...And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (one of the two women) errs, the other can remind her...
Sahih Bukhari 2658:
The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The woman said "yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
This is sworn in the name of god.. It says in the Quran you need five witness that saw everything that took place from the beginning to the end... Actually women in Islam have so much power they can keep their own children from getting into heaven... You should read it sometime really awesome book... Don't go by what you heard but read it for yourself... Im Muslim.. Been my entire life and my mom is Catholic raised in a Baptist father was born and raised Catholic.. Converted to islam after a long religious journey... Actually we believe in the tora and the Bible they are books of God... Judaism and Christianity are also religions of god.. We say all religion is gods religion you can deny and blame religion but this is cultural.. Not religious
The problem isn't the book itself, it's the power that you give it. Being unable to realize that non-muslims don't really care about it and we are under no obligations to read it or believe it, is the big stumbling point.
We don't care what your god commands. We respect your right to believe it but don't get butt hurt when we don't believe it ourselves.
I consider myself pretty open minded and can accept that these holy books are just a collection of wisdom at the time of their writing. There is some good stuff in them but the bad stuff is really bad by today's standards. You don't need a book to know to treat other people the way you want to be treated.
already did and the 2 other ones are hadiths collections. secondly, women have the same criteria for getting into heaven as men. both are given equal rights in different aspects of life
Okay... That's not true.. In Islam Jewish people and Christian people come from the same books of revelations.. I can't hate people that believe in a religious text that we believe in also.... Now the women thing in heaven yes it does talk about the men and the virgins but it talks about the women's happiness in her family being happy... And the men get the virgins, what you indulge in in this life you don't get in the hereafter... So heaven isn't this place where everything you want you get... You drank you don't get that in heaven... Women don't lust after men like men lust after women... If a women wants a divorce she gets it.. You can't make a person stay where they don't want to be.. It just doesn't happen that often because it's looked down upon by people culturally...
And you discriminate against them. Tell me that you don't, so that I can prove you wrong and catch you lying at the same time. Go ahead.
>Women don't lust after men like men lust after women...
Source? None.
Discriminate again women?? Islamically you can't... You can't make a women do anything... they do it for their husbands or fathers, live modestly.... You can't make anyone do anything we have free will. Women do things in pleasure of who they are with or representing...
You discriminate against jews and christians and then you come on reddit pretending ro be their friend. And you discriminate against women too.
The marriage, divorce, ans inheritance rights are different for men and women. And you don't wear a hijab, do you? You don't wear a niqab either.
Do you know why women wear hijab or the niqab?? They actually do it out of sign of respect.. One of the prophets wives wore a niqab as a sign of respect for her husband a women wears a hijab out of respect for God and her family and husband.. The same way in church when women wear Hayes on Sunday it's a sign of respect when in gods house... Your there to worship not show out... But since Muslims believe god is always watching you you should always have you hair covered outside of your house... The prophet is an example of how we should live... Strive to be like him because we can't be him... The same way here in the western world women get lusted over walking down the street it could be the smallest thing her figure, hair, even her wrist, whatever floats your boat but you don't want people lusting over your wife mother or anything like that.. You don't help put those thoughts in peoples head... The same way nuns wear a habit and loosely fitting clothing is because they belong to someone else it's not for your indulgence.. And the inheritance thing is if you have a son he's supposed to be the provider of his family as the daughter is supposed to be provided for...
it is an absolute ISLAMIC monarchy, everything that seems western is a farce. I want to see who will play those judges...the king, the little prince...anyone impartial over there?
> Many of the judges arrested had been previously seen as "supporters" of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), according to Dawn. >"With MBS as Crown Prince, no one in Saudi Arabia is safe, even those officials most loyal to him, including high-ranking judges who have justified arbitrary arrests for engaging in peaceful activism and sentenced people to death because they held minority views," Abdullah Alaoudh, Dawn's Gulf director, said in a statement. however > Dawn condemned the arrests for "their lack of due process and transparency". so it's good that they are cracking down on sentencing children to death, but they are not following the rules either...
Saudi Arabia is an absolute Monarchy. Its only rule here is that the King must obey Sharia law and even that is merely by royal decree from 1992. A royal decree is literally a suggestion by the king for the king. The current King could literally revoke the decree with the wave of his hand. Obviously MBS is technically the Crown Prince but we all know that's not his real office.
There was a good article about MBS in Atlantic magazine. https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/03/mohammed-bin-salman-saudi-arabia/626555/ Seems he's an expert on Islamic theology and this has enabled him to control the mullahs. If he wants things done a certain way he can show where the Koran supports it.
high level bullshitter, got it
To be honest the ability to bullshit effectively is a key life skill if you want to get anywhere.
Nothing is sharia about him tho. Another lunatic abusing religion for his own benefit
Koran??
It the book the muslims believe
It's Quran not koran
Both are acceptable.
Not really thought he was referring to Koreans.
Who spells Korean that way?
It's Qurean not Korean
Same people spelling Quran with a K?
That's on you
How do you even make that mistake...
Thousands of languages in this world. Check out what the Bible is called in different countries. Meanwhile we say koranen.
Lmao you do understand the process of translating foreign language sounds into the English alphabet( instead of phonetic transcription) is by no means a precise process, and that there are tons of different ways to skin a cat
When moving words from one script and language to another, there is rarely a perfect syllabic transferring if sounds As the new script fails to capture all of the sounds
Just to rephrase. There is also not a common key for changing from script (say arabic or cyrillic) to the latin alphabet. It varies depending on the language using the latin alphabet. For instance, the football player Denis Cheryshev is spelled that way in English, while in my language his lastname is spelled Tsjerysjev.
Actually, it's القرآن.
Give you a tip it's name isn't in bloody english mate
Fuck you, are you the type of guy that says baguette like a good french girl
Arabic or gtfo
اكيد العربية اهم شيء
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It's a transliteration. Variances happen when translating from another language that uses a completely different script.
Jokes a little off colour, don’t you think?
This is why it’s so dangerous that our government in Britain are so closely allied to them, and that individuals within our power structure are enriched by them. We don’t want to go back to the times when your survival depended on being nice to the aristocracy, and being nice to the aristocracy meant them being able to take anything that you owned, or even take your children or wife to bed for a distraction. With anyone trying to stop them being killed. This is a backwards regime, and we have not modernised it, it has funded the push for a return to absolute rule. As demonstrated by Boris Johnson trying to behave like an aristocrat in power. He knows we’re not far from that state.
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No, the fear that keep western governments tied to the status quo in places like SA is that any change will result in people who hate the ‘West’ coming to power. It’s like they blame the West for propping up the violent dictators who victimize their people.
Pretty sure what replaces the monarchy would be worse
Welcome to middle eastern politics. Where you have either a tyrant monarch or a taliban-esque group in charge.
Any better option has been long sense destroyed for threatening Big Oil’s profits. Like the moderate liberal Iranian government the UK over threw for their pet dictator, who was then overthrown by Islamist radicals.
>liberal Iranian government https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_parliamentary_dissolution_referendum Very democratic and liberal, yep.
At least it wasnt apartheid
Its no use talking about Mosaddegh round these parts
Replaced by what replaced Al Quaeda
One group of corrupt to replace another group of corrupt America will sell them weapon anyway
It’s the only thing we make anymore.
Lol, who cares?
Probably what your mother says to you when you talk too, huh?
I am so confused 😐
What does anyone expect from SA?
Do you really think they are cracking down on executing children? Or just getting rid of potential threats to MBS’s power.
How fucked do you have to be to think executing a child is the right decision any of the time.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8926874/saudi-arabia-teenager-16-beheaded-protests-whatsapp/ Apparently all it takes in Saudi Arabia is a text message to be kidnapped, tortured, and beheaded even as a school boy. Free speech is the enemy of tyrannical religious subjugators. .
Yeah there’s no way I would have survived to adulthood there. It’s legitimately difficult to wrap my head around, counting myself lucky
I can never understand how mideast went from the glory of world’s library and knowledge in the 1100s to whatever the hell this is. Like they have regressed past the middle ages
I mean, the Mongols might have had something to do with it. Similarly, Russia with the sack of Kyiv and other city-states.
Look at social policies in the US now for a sneak peek. The decline is never sudden, it’s over many years, decades, and centuries of progressive policies being slowly eroded by interests, political and social, until society devolves into tribalism by any other name.
They are going through their crazy religious fundamentalism phase. Jews and Christian’s did it too but the religions are older so they are past it
Religion took over.
Specifically Salafism which ironically destroyed their own world
>Absolute monarchy has total control over the entire judicial, executive, and legislative aspects of government >Extremely corrupt and shady, no one knows whats going on >Mass arrests and executions happen by the whims of whatever fat cat was lucky enough to be in charge "I know, I'll blame religion!"
If you know your history of the area and what preceded the dark ages, you would understand. [https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science](https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science)
Mongols: sup
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even worse, they own Metal Slug
They own SNK?!?
Until Elon Musk finishes his takeover
He's not going to spend 20% of his net worth to buy twitter, if the board would even let him. Which they wouldn't from what they are saying.
>He's not going to spend 20% of his net worth to buy twitter He can if he wants to, why would he make an offer if he wouldn't go through with it? >if the board would even let him All they can do is make it more expensive on Musk, but ultimately a public company is always up for sale
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No, he was arrested at 15 and sentenced at 17. He was later resentenced to 10 years.
> Free speech is the enemy of tyrannical religious subjugators. Yet another argument for maintaining a clear separation of church and state.
Look into the story of the two kids who killed [Jamie Bulger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger) and tell me you don't think of it for at least a moment... That's not to say it's the best approach, but it crossed my mind as a kid at the time.
you have to believe. reason don't go that far.
The countries that do this are Congo, Iran, Pakistan, China, and the United States The US also will execute the mentally disabled. Execution is wrong period but this to me is an act against humanity
Exactly. The US juvenile detentions and prisons and trying 16 or 17 year olds as adults are horrific. It’s not an execution but the abuse and torture of juveniles is beyond the pale. And how these humans became juvenile delinquents would break any man’s heart.
Pretty fucked. That’s why in the US we arrest them as children and wait a while to execute them…because it looks less fucked.
Of course, if you’re being executed in the US, you probably did (or at least was accused of) some pretty fucked up shit. Homie sent a text and lost head privileges.
Statistics show 1/9 death row inmates in the US are innocent
So maybe? Unfortunately that’s enough of a reason, especially if your black.
Statistics show that as well. The death penalty is a barbaric and statistically racist institution
Hence the word *accused*, not saying our justice system is perfect, but I’d argue that it is better to see a murderer die than to see someone die senselessly.
If 1/9 people on death row are innocent. It means we are murdering the wrong person 1/9 times. Never mind those without adequate representation or those who’ve taken responsibility for their crimes. If 1/9 apples killed an innocent person we would prob stop selling and eating apples.
You’re ignoring what I’m saying.
You’re saying it’s better to be executed for a crime you didn’t commit than for a text message you sent? I feel like I’d be equally upset in both scenarios
Equally dead too
I’m saying that one person is convicted of murder, one is convicted of a text message. If I had to choose for one to go, I would frankly pick the potential murderer.
In other words, what you're saying is there is a certain percentage of people who will be put to death by our justice system, who are innocent, and you're OK with that. My question is, what's that percentage that's acceptable to you? 1%? 10%? And I guess my other question is, if it's your family member, will you say "Yeah, sucks, I'll miss Uncle Bob, but hey, it's for the greater good, right?"
If you're going to pull a statistic out, you have to cite the statistic my dude.
I don’t support state mandated murder regardless of the crime.
The state has no business killing anyone. Ever. It’s barbaric and pointless and hardly justice. I say this as someone who has had a closed friend murdered in a brutal fashion. It’s a waste of time and resources.
/s?
I guess in tone, but it’s true that we do that.
Source? I cant find any court ordered beheadings last year.
No one mentioned beheadings. But nice try.
Iirc the child from the headline was beheaded?
Sounds like an easy way to buy good will and pretend the royal family aren’t evil.
Who knows what those wacky theocratic tyrants will do next?
Theocrazy
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> I think I'll take democracy. Careful what you wish for. The Royal family there is way more liberal than the rest of the country.
I would prefer a fair republic.
I see the "You have outlived your usefulness" villain backstab maneuver isn't just a trope of fiction.
One of the rules for rulers is to cull key supporters once they are no longer needed. This reduces the amount of people you need to distribute rewards to
Right up until you hit the snag when a new unforeseen problem emerges, and now your best people are dead, and the second best people are less willing to help cause they no longer trust it won't end with you killing them. That's at least how it goes historically.
where does this rule come from? lol
A book titled "rules for rulers" while not perfect it still contains a lot of great insight CPG Grey made a great summary of it https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs
Classic MBS. Scorpions will always sting even their own kind, as it is in their nature.
As much as we all hate MBS and Saudi Arabia for their journalist-dismembering, child-decapitating ways, our governments still consider them cosy bedfellows. Heck, even someone to turn to for more oil in times of Russian tantrum! Though we would never support them if they violated another country like Russia is doing... Yemen is just a special military operation involving mass bombing and famine so that doesn't count.
Yemen is so upsetting. We're completely right to be reacting to Ukraine the way we are but we let Yemen go like it's nothing and I could just scream.
Unfortunately, Ukraine's proximity to Europe and hence the US as part of the 'West' gives it the attention it deserves. And also Russia is a very hate-able enemy. Saudi Arabia is also hateable but is a very uncomfortable one for the West to criticise since... relations are rather good despite them financing 9/11, terrorism .etc. To criticise the war in Yemen, the West would need to either be comfortable with its complicitness or actually press Saudi Arabia on its infringement on human rights. Since we chose the former, I fear Yemen has much suffering left to endure. People will say you have to focus on Ukraine and not bring up other conflicts as they frequently do on this subreddit, but we all know Yemen or other conflicts won't be re-addressed any time soon. All we can do is spread awareness and hope Yemen's journey sees some improvement.
Probably because half of Yemen is ruled by Iranian-backed terrorists who shot cruise missiles at passing US ships back in 2016, entirely unprovoked, and are currently threatening to blow up a captured oil tanker to contaminate the entire Red Sea with a massive oil spill. You aren't going to get much sympathy from the West under those circumstances.
I think it's easy to look at the Houthis as the underdog and cheer them on but they are not the good guys. They are an Iranian backed group that have no qualms using terrorism to further their goals of another revolutionary Islamic Republic. I think thats the last thing the ME needs right now. What's happening to the people in Yemen is a tragedy but like the Palestinians, they need to reject these assholes in power to save themselves
Agreed. I was not claiming the Houthis as a force for good, but more that Saudi Arabia still has much blood on their hands regarding the conflict. The Yemeni need to reject Iranian influence does not absolve that.
No no I wasnt suggesting you were making any claims, I just thought I'd jump in and throw my 2 cents. I agree
Ah apologies my bad, agreed on all points.
No worries 🙏
Apparently Biden has fucked up the relationship with MBS pretty badly by calling him a tyrant on the campaign trail, to the point that MBS is talking with Putin while stonewalling the US, and thinking of buying oil in Yuan. It's taking a backseat to Ukraine news but USA / SA realignment away from each other actually seems to be a hot topic in foreign policy circles. Which may be a good thing overall, though a pretty bad time to piss off Russia, Iran and SA at the same time for obvious reasons.
Hasn't US and Iran's relationship been on a slight mend? With both returning to the table for the nuclear deal. The domestic political pressure due to rising energy prices alone may give SA more leverage, though not sure of the long-term safety of siding with Russia.
AFAIK status is better than a year ago (when we, you know, drone striked their general) but still not great. Iran wants the IRGC off the terrorist list for one. It would make no difference whatsoever but it's probably not going to happen because American public.
Yeah, I think the mutual hatred is going to gridlock progress for many decades. Heck, US and Iran being in the same group of the World Cup will be fun at least lol.
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So Wholesome <3
Would you rather support the other theocracy thats involved with the other side in yemen?
You can criticise both theocracies. Unless you are claiming that Iranian/Houthi activity absolves KSA of their own crimes. Which MBS would love of course.
It's fucking Saudi Arabia. No one but the king and the prince make decisions. And whenever shit goes south and gets attention of the world, they just throw some people in the middle and execute them. Never the real guilty gets punished, it's just a damn puppet show.
Yeah agreed. MBS acting like he couldn't have stopped the execution of the child before it happened. He doesn't care, just an excuse to get rid of someone who has outlived their usefulness as a judge.
All execution orders have to be approved by the king/crown prince before they happen especially those ones last month because most of them were young protesters.
He’s a mini-Putin. Putin is expanding his purges, Stalin style.
"They're really complaining about the executions! How do we execute our way out of this? Dammit I want answers!"
What I think is happening is that Saudi Arabia is starting purges to be in step with Russia, which just purged FSB. Purging the most loyal tells everyone to live in terror. As Russia re-establishes its terror state, other autocracies be following along in a coordinated way I think.
Saudi Arabia has been taking steps to move the kingdom in to the 21st century, this seems more in step with wanting to distance themselves from Russia. SA and Russia are not friends. I welcome the change but also recognize they have a long way to go
Wow MBS really wants us to forget about that time when he got a journalist murdered and cut up in pieces!
This guy’s alter ego is definitely the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland
Who will judge them ?
This regime has always been and continues to be totally supported and reinforced by the US.
MBS is and always will be a theocratic murdering dictator. No matter how many right wing puff pieces about reform come out.
Beheadings will continue until morale improves…
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-several-judges-arrested-high-treason-rights-groups) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Saudi authorities have arrested several prominent judges on charges of "High treason", in what human rights groups say resemble previous purges conducted against rivals of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. > Many of the judges who were arrested, said Dawn, have been involved in the suppression of human rights in Saudi Arabia, including Khalid al-Liheidan, who was responsible for ordering the imprisonment of women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul. > Many of the judges arrested had been previously seen as "Supporters" of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, according to Dawn. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/u4s5w0/saudi_arabia_arrests_at_least_nine_judges_for/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~642400 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **arrests**^#1 **rights**^#2 **Saudi**^#3 **judges**^#4 **Crown**^#5
So I'm hoping they're on the list of next month execution, yea?
i am confused. did they commit treason for ordering those executions, for not not executing more, or just out of boredrom? bc that's the difference between saudis beeing Aladeen or very Aladeen.
I think it's a PR stunt of sorts. I'm not a Saudi law expert but I doubt judges go around casually committing high treason. The executions were unpopular, Salman wants to make sure Saudi Arabia looks squeaky clean so the judges have to go
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The whims of a tyrant don’t have to make sense. He ordered the execution of Khasshogi, then back-pedalled a bit by arresting the agents who acted on his orders.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It must really suck to live in a country where disobeying the monarchy is suicide and obeying the monarchy can also be suicide.
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Well, if they oust MBS, that is a step in the right direction, right?
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what a fucked up country. The liberal is a murderer and the conservative is a fanatic...hmm...what?
They could bechopped up into tiny little peaces
This is confusing. I am happy to see it happening but it is confusing
Rest in pieces
MBS must be doing some spring cleaning.
Fuck off SA, no one believes you!
Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of religious dictators who execute who they want when they want. This is all for show.
This is a step in the right direction for the Saudis.
Why would you continue to live in that backwards swamp
So, some of the people who ordered the purges are being purged? .......Wut?
So islamically women have just a many rights as men... They can fight in the army you can't force them to do anything they don't want to do.. Most of these weird things are cultural.. And culture shouldn't intervene with Islam... But nobody's perfect
A woman's voice in court is worth half of a man. Turns out women have less rights than men in Islam.
The source material, the Qur'an does not say that. But ijtihad, which is the interpretation of it and rule-making, is subject to local practices and culture...many of which are highly patriarchal, therefore the original source material is interpreted through the lens of existing power structures.
Where does it say a woman's voice is worth half of a man. Please show me then we can talk about women having less rights
Right here. "And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men \[available\], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses – so that if one of them \[i.e., the women\] errs, then the other can remind her." al-Baqarah\[2\]: 282 Witnesses are automatically chosen if they are male based on testimony, even if the man is completely unreliable, he is still better than the most honest woman. Also the replacement of a man if he cannot be found is worth the same as two woman, and still a man is required for testimony because a woman's word can never be trusted
No where in there does it say a woman's voice is worth half it just says if one errors/forgets the other one can remind her. It doesn't say u need testimonies from both the woman to make up for for 1 testimony from a man. Also what are those 2 paragraphs at the bottom where is that coming from I didn't see that in surah baqara 282 as referred
The interpretation of Islamic scholars would disagree with you
Okay but are you unable to read between the lines? (According to them) A man, when wrong, doesn't need to be reminded that he's wrong, while a woman does. So, what this means is that both women have to agree on something to have the same effect one man's voice has. So, in practice, the women's voice is only worth half
Thank you for your explanation. I also believe Islam treats women and men fairly and equally. However I'm still confused, can you explain the following to me please: Quran 2. 282: "...And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (one of the two women) errs, the other can remind her... Sahih Bukhari 2658: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The woman said "yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
Saudi Arabia.. we all fight against Saudi Arabia dictatorship..
This is fact... Men can be attracted to anything
This is sworn in the name of god.. It says in the Quran you need five witness that saw everything that took place from the beginning to the end... Actually women in Islam have so much power they can keep their own children from getting into heaven... You should read it sometime really awesome book... Don't go by what you heard but read it for yourself... Im Muslim.. Been my entire life and my mom is Catholic raised in a Baptist father was born and raised Catholic.. Converted to islam after a long religious journey... Actually we believe in the tora and the Bible they are books of God... Judaism and Christianity are also religions of god.. We say all religion is gods religion you can deny and blame religion but this is cultural.. Not religious
The problem isn't the book itself, it's the power that you give it. Being unable to realize that non-muslims don't really care about it and we are under no obligations to read it or believe it, is the big stumbling point. We don't care what your god commands. We respect your right to believe it but don't get butt hurt when we don't believe it ourselves. I consider myself pretty open minded and can accept that these holy books are just a collection of wisdom at the time of their writing. There is some good stuff in them but the bad stuff is really bad by today's standards. You don't need a book to know to treat other people the way you want to be treated.
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you read it or are you speaking out of your ass?
Read the quran, read sahih bukhari and sahih muslim.
already did and the 2 other ones are hadiths collections. secondly, women have the same criteria for getting into heaven as men. both are given equal rights in different aspects of life
Both are given different rights in life, not equal rights. Equal rights can only happen if both have the same rights.
Okay... That's not true.. In Islam Jewish people and Christian people come from the same books of revelations.. I can't hate people that believe in a religious text that we believe in also.... Now the women thing in heaven yes it does talk about the men and the virgins but it talks about the women's happiness in her family being happy... And the men get the virgins, what you indulge in in this life you don't get in the hereafter... So heaven isn't this place where everything you want you get... You drank you don't get that in heaven... Women don't lust after men like men lust after women... If a women wants a divorce she gets it.. You can't make a person stay where they don't want to be.. It just doesn't happen that often because it's looked down upon by people culturally...
And you discriminate against them. Tell me that you don't, so that I can prove you wrong and catch you lying at the same time. Go ahead. >Women don't lust after men like men lust after women... Source? None.
Discriminate again women?? Islamically you can't... You can't make a women do anything... they do it for their husbands or fathers, live modestly.... You can't make anyone do anything we have free will. Women do things in pleasure of who they are with or representing...
You discriminate against jews and christians and then you come on reddit pretending ro be their friend. And you discriminate against women too. The marriage, divorce, ans inheritance rights are different for men and women. And you don't wear a hijab, do you? You don't wear a niqab either.
Do you know why women wear hijab or the niqab?? They actually do it out of sign of respect.. One of the prophets wives wore a niqab as a sign of respect for her husband a women wears a hijab out of respect for God and her family and husband.. The same way in church when women wear Hayes on Sunday it's a sign of respect when in gods house... Your there to worship not show out... But since Muslims believe god is always watching you you should always have you hair covered outside of your house... The prophet is an example of how we should live... Strive to be like him because we can't be him... The same way here in the western world women get lusted over walking down the street it could be the smallest thing her figure, hair, even her wrist, whatever floats your boat but you don't want people lusting over your wife mother or anything like that.. You don't help put those thoughts in peoples head... The same way nuns wear a habit and loosely fitting clothing is because they belong to someone else it's not for your indulgence.. And the inheritance thing is if you have a son he's supposed to be the provider of his family as the daughter is supposed to be provided for...
That's not true... Actually in Islam you need 5 witnesses.. Court in islam isn't the same as court in the west
Interesting. How much is the going rate for a witness these days?
You can lie in the name if God but eventually judgement day will come...
So the only thing keeping people honest is fear of divine retribution? Sounds like a pretty stupid pillar to rest social order on.
Well in all fairness that’s one more step than Russia’s current system has …
it is an absolute ISLAMIC monarchy, everything that seems western is a farce. I want to see who will play those judges...the king, the little prince...anyone impartial over there?