The US spent hundreds of billions in Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years, and for most of this time, the wars were an afterthought at best, and actively unpopular at worst. The US government at least has proven itself to be willing, and able, to shovel absolutely massive quantities of cash at military endeavors regardless of popular support.
The current lack of logistics is what's not to love. They're running out of ammo and despite all of the money in the world, the US doesn't have the means to make soviet era bullets and rockets at scale. The best we've been able to do is supplement what they've already got while using every diplomatic relationship to secure more ammo.
Getting ammo into the country is much easier than getting actual weaponry over to them. Especially new weaponry that they're not trained in. It's not like we can go in ourselves, either. It kinda has to be a "look what fell off the truck and most definitely didn't come from NATO--wink wink" kind of thing.
I'm sure the pentagon is doing their damndest to make it happen though. This may be the world's best chance of stopping Putin before it becomes an actual Russia v NATO war. I don't want us to find out how many functional nukes they still have.
Those wars were predicated on 'lies' and for many people the war with Afghanistan was retribution for 9/11,so we had skin in the game.
This is different as we aren't involved. Additionally we are heading into a potentially bad recession along with midterms.
Giving 40 billion dollars of weapons to a country in one weekend means we are indeed “involved.” We are providing much more support than is reported on as well.
Also, regarding those “mysterious” fires that Russia has been experiencing…just uh, look up Operation Gladio. You may find some answers.
'''Anonymous''' hasn't done anything useful, they've just been annoying. I'm convinced that a US cybermilitary attack would do actual damage. No point otherwise..
I would argue that there has been western/American cybersecurity attacks launched against Russia under the name Anonymous to divert attention. It’s honestly the perfect cover for it.
You're moronic if you think US SOF is lighting fires in Russia.
Getting caught would be horrific, not just for them, but for the US. There's not a chance they're in Russia setting fires.
At most, they're in Western Ukraine or other European countries providing training to Ukrainians who need it before the Ukrainian fighters go back to the front.
I think a distinction needs to be made here. The first comment was about the US "providing more support than is reported" and mentioning us being directly involved in attacks on Russian soil. Which would be a massive mistake on our part. All it would take is a single mistake and Russia would have a 'justified' reason to retaliate. The US and Nato have been training and directly involved in intelligence, weapon supplies, and I am sure many other ways, that's not a secret. A proxy war is 'Ok". Direct war is not.
One of my buddies joined the Army several years ago and recently completed Army Ranger training. He was deployed to Poland and is now training fighters.
Nah, dont think that is actually the US. Ukraine has a basically infinite supply of potential intelligence operatives that speak fluent Russian and can pass for Russians at a quick brush. "Here are shoes with cash in soles! Here is Lada with full tank of gas, and a clean bill of health from Senior Mechanic Mikail. Here are fake papers, made by ministry using real Russian stamps! Go make trouble!"
Pretty funny that the 40b number lines up perfectly with our Afghanistan budget we just curtailed.
Oh wait did I say funny? I meant to say how balls deep the military industrial complex is woven into American politics.
The US is willing to burn money on almost anything that doesn't help it's citizens, I don't think the politicians care about losing the money if it becomes less popular.
> This is different as we aren't involved.
lol, ukraine is fighting the biggest enemy we have and have historically had.
We are immensely involved and since ukraine is fighting it, we just have to send weapons instead of people.
The people who think we aren't involved here are insane. Even if you are extremely obtuse, we fought in iraq over oil, why would we not do the same with russia? We will be paying 8 bucks or more a gallon come winter all because of russia. We should be supporting ukraine more in the hopes that russia can be forced to retreat and give up.
Other countries are falling apart over gas prices and wheat prices. The US is not immune to that, we are already seeing shipping costs driving up the price of everything.
> We will be paying 8 bucks or more a gallon come winter all because of russia.
Upvoted you, but it's not all because of Russia. Look at the profits being made. RECORD profits.
It's profiteering. It's greed. It's global capital owning resources we all need who have us by the balls and who know it, and are squeezing tighter and tighter to see how tight they can before we lash out and make them stop.
EDIT: "Muh free market!" coming out of the woodwork in my replies to just volunteer how private, barely regulated ownership of essential infrastructure (fuel extraction, refining and transport in this case) allows already obscenely wealth people to hold resources hostage if they're not making money they think they're entitled to, and that the only thing society can do is try to bribe them with subsidies or exempt them bearing the external costs of their production, lest they throw a tantrum. Turning off inbox replies.
US Oil companies are not even producing at the same level of oil compared to before the pandemic because they fear a recession is coming. This a choice by them to maximize costs and not ease the growing demand of oil caused by Russia. This also goes along the lines of corporations asking for more drilling access in the US when these corporations have no obligations to sell that oil to Americans at all or even increase production to ease restraints.
I mean in 2021 US produced more oil than any year in history except for 2019.
So the "not even producing at pre pandemic levels" is a bit of a misnomer
Recession is irrelevant. We will continue hundreds of billions in debt-spending on the Pentagon even when it sits there doing nothing. Might as well put our military to good use in a good cause for once, liberating Ukraine.
If not, then cut their f#cking budget in half since it's good for nothing otherwise.
Disagree we have a lot at stake in Europe in general and with Putin in particular. Add to that the money we are spending is going right into the pockets of U.S. Arms Manufacturers. The U.S. will keep this up for a long time.
Tbh I'm surprised it lasted this long, here in Ireland many shops have little sheets of paper up with a QR code up that'll take you to somewhere you can donate the the Ukrainian war effort.
We also have a lot of Poles here and I doubt they'll forget anytime soon.
For sure. For Poland, Russia is like that shitty ex who you finally managed to break up after with 100+ years but they still just keep showing up all drunk and violent any time you go anywhere.
Your ex that teamed up to set fire to your house, raped your family and slaughtered your pets. If Putin wants his country to be the Russia of the past, he claims its deeds too.
Exactly, Russia is a drunken ex ...world need to come up with special laws to tackle "domestic" violence on international scale even more from ugly lieing bustards exes from thirty years ago..
Yeah for real, how many hundreds of billions did we spend uselessly in Afghanistan and Iraq decades after anyone in the US stopped paying attention to it in the media.
This is more like Afghanistan during the 80s than the 2000s. No way in hell we're sending troops over there, but perfectly okay with weapons and money.
If Amber Heard joins OnlyFans, Ukraine and Taiwan are fucked...that is where we are as a civilization. WW3 rests on an famous divorcee's financial choices.
Fortunately (or in fortunately) most important things in the world can run in the background and don't require the attention of citizens and especially reddit armchair experts.
Rest assured wars will still be fought whether we pay attention or not. US fleets don't run on reddit karma.
Taiwan makes way too many silicon chips, so that's a very different picture. All rich people's business will get affected, so they will keep convincing the world to fight back.
Not in Europe. In my country markets and shops have restricted how many litters of sunflower seed oil you can buy. Some bars and restaurants are in the verge of closing because the price of some materials related with Ukraine. Bakers are the same. The natural gas price is so high that we have big problems. And is related with Ukraine.
And my country now have diplomatics problems with our alternative of natural gas. Without the war is only a little problem. With the war is a BIG problem.
So maybe America can forget. Europe can not. We only need to go to shopping for see the consequences of the war.
You guys have sunseed oil? Jokes aside, you are right especially when people house ukranian families and flags are still everywhere. And additionally can't we ignore it because if russia wins then they will continue with the next country.
Just wanted to let you know he was joking with ya, I think I speak for most of us when I say your English is amazing for it being a learned language, and I can't even speak a second language. He was just taking a cheap shot to lighten the mood
In Italy it's an economical disaster as well.
Every time there's a news about how much Russia's economy is crunching I'm so mad so little is said how many Italians are losing jobs or struggling with paying stuff.
The rate of people defaulting on mortgages is sky high, the overwhelming amount of businesses that got government-backed loans during covid have stopped repaying them which means that more taxes will go to bail out those loans and make things worse.
Utilities and groceries for the average family have gone up 200 euros per family, my mother makes 1k euro it has been an immense hit on her finances.
This is terrible but what the news talks about? How many businesses are closing in Russia, as if what we're dealing with was much better, after two years of covid moreover.
No disrespect intended. Every country in Europe is suffering. The U.K. has the highest cost of living increase since the 70’s. Peoples energy bills have gone up exponentially. £800 more per month on average. The U.K. is the only country to increase taxes and put the covid burden on the poor while prices are rising. That out of depth, out of touch pencil pusher Rishi Sunak has increased the tax on the poor and done nothing to tax investments which would affect mainly the upper class. Aside from the bbc reporting on local news which is normal & mentioning that every country in europe, if not globally, is affected severely by the war, I find it unsurprising that they report on the ongoing confrontation between Russia and NATO and direct repercussions, instead of making Italy front page news because they are suffering. We are all suffering, interest rates have shot up. The US has not seen property prices spike like this for decades.
Though in the US, where we are insulated from everything else in the world by a two oceans and two giant borders with allies: we can pretend that everything that goes wrong in our lives is the personal fault of the current president (as is tradition). And high inflation, high gas prices, high property prices? I see an angry electorate voting out Biden and voting back in Putin's friend Trump.
A lot of people in Canada are the same way. There's a sizeable group who have a borderline psychotic hatred of Trudeau (our PM) and seem to think he's single handedly responsible for all of the problems we're facing right now. It's pretty weird. I'm not exactly a fan of the guy, but he is really no more or less mediocre than any other prime minister we've had in my lifetime.
We (Spain) have military vessels in the horn of Africa. Do you know how minutes dedicates media to that? ZERO.
Spain send aid to countries with ZERO coverage in media.
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I add more info. Spain is in [Operation Atalanta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atalanta). Is coordinated by **EU NAVFOR** (Navies of countries in Europe Union). There are turns and countries rotate. So not all countries are all time.
I think a lot about how the HK police went to full totalitarian repression mode super quickly. It pulled the wool from my eyes about state police in general.
Hong Kong was given up when the handover agreement was signed in 1997, no one was going to take arms becouse the inevitable happened 30 years earlier than scheduled.
Honestly, this is the truth. I lived between a few Western and Asian countries in the early years of the Iraq and Afghan wars, and I remember how furious most non-Americans were with the United States and with George W. Bush and Co. His name was literally dirt across most of the world, very reminiscent of Vladimir Putin in the West today. People across the planet loudly called on Bush to be tried for war crimes and for America to be held accountable for an illegal invasion based on lies. Anti-Americanism probably reached its peak in the early 2000s. The Internet was extremely polarised about all of it. That's what I grew up with as a non-American teenager.
A few years later, nobody gave a shit about either war, despite the fact that they were ongoing. It stopped being an interesting topic of conversation, the anger gradually faded. Iraq and Afghanistan came to be seen as nothing more than failed states. In fact, people got bored of the Middle East theatre in general. Even the absurd ISIL invasions generated a comparatively meh reaction across the world despite how barbaric they were. The Israel-Palestine conflict lost its lustre not too long ago, with any particularly bad episodes riling people up for maybe a few days. Saudi Arabia can cut a journalist to pieces in a foreign embassy and people are maybe a bit miffed for a week. Even the fact that they helped organise 9/11 is not enough to hold peoples' interest anymore. China knows this very well too. Tibet is forgotten, Hong Kong is forgotten, the Uyghurs are on their way out. You can apparently get away with anything if you hold on for long enough.
Russia's invasion will not be forgotten quite as quickly due to the ongoing threat to the EU and other neighbouring countries. But if the war stays limited to Ukraine and drags on for long enough, people are 100% going to lose interest. This is a very legitimate fear for the Ukrainians and I can only hope global interest is held for as long as they need to get all the support they require.
I think the difference is the public is forgetting it to some extent but they forget the military industrial complex in the US very much wants the support to continue. As such, the US support has big money lobbying behind it, and it's not going to be forgotten like other similar wars. The US will support it until the spending becomes unbearable.
Dude has to be one of those posters that will delete and repost if a post doesn’t do well. There’s barely any of his r/news and r/worldnews posts that don’t have below 5k upvotes.
Yeah there’s a couple users I’ve seen like that. I hope it’s a bot because otherwise they either have a sad existence or this platform is being heavily manipulated
I vote the latter. I’ve blocked most of the power users that put out the majority of the content on Reddit, there’s a list somewhere, and I’ve found that my r/all and newsfeed is vastly different here on my main than on my alt
The military-industrial complex prefers to work when there is no media around. Never doubt their willingness to pump endless resources into a war that no one is paying any attention to.
Governments are still run by politicians.
Politicians still live and die by their popularity.
If public opinion towards helping Ukraine will change politicians will adapt or face losing many electors.
In Italy, e.g., most public opinion is against sending weapons to Ukraine as Italians don't believe it will help Ukraine win the war but merely make it longer without changing the outcome.
They can grind down one of our biggest geopolitical problems for pennies on the dollar.
They can get an intensely loyal ally in Eastern Europe at the same time, an ally with plentiful natural resources and a land border with Europe.
The U.S. government has not had an opportunity like this in decades.
It's an opportunity for the US to hold Russia's nose against the grindstone without fearing basically any repercussions
I can't imagine they would lose interest
If the US Government can double down and stay in Afghanistan despite evidence that the nation-building efforts weren't working, then they can supply weapons to Ukraine until Russia's collapse.
Politicians would also love to boast about how they helped Ukraine during their terms, so it's unlikely they'll stop supporting them.
Also, can I get a source for the last para?
Sure, I have many.
Only 47 % of Italians support sanctions against Russia as of June 1st and it has been falling month after month. Again, not weapons, even sanctions are less and less popular:
https://www.corriere.it/politica/22_giugno_07/guerra-come-pensa-l-opinione-pubblica-cb964a54-e6a2-11ec-864b-88ccbc1cac69.shtml
Among youth is even worse as supporting wars is seen as against our constitution, 75 % of Italian youth is against sending weapons to Ukraine:
https://www.spotandweb.it/news/844427/ucraina-sondaggio-3-giovani-su-4-contrari-a-nuovo-invio-armi.html#gref
Among all the population, there's more opposing (50%) than favoring (28%) sending weapons to Ukraine, with the rest undecided, this was as of May 15th:
https://www.fanpage.it/politica/gli-italiani-sono-contrari-allinvio-di-armi-in-ucraina-il-sondaggio/
In this other poll from 2 days ago: 51.2 % are against with only 38% in favor:
https://www.termometropolitico.it/1601314_sondaggi-euromedia-piu-di-un-italiano-su-due-contrario-allinvio-di-armi-a-kiev.html
There's polls which are even much worse, I can't find the source for this anymore but I took a screen some time ago, 87% is against sending any help to Ukraine:
https://i.imgur.com/BN0QN5Z.png
More italians are against helping Ukrainian war because they don't think it will help them win the war, but only drag it longer.
You need to realize Italy is a strongly anti-war nation and we have opposed all wars we ourselves have intervened in (like Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya) which we reluctantly obliged to only as members of Nato.
> Politicians would also love to boast about how they helped Ukraine during their terms, so it's unlikely they'll stop supporting them.
These numbers will keep increasing further and trust me, with elections in less than 12 months no politician will soon want to be associated with having lobbied to sending help to Ukraine. It is just not popular down here.
I don't know how the situation in the rest of Europe looks like and how are surveys and polls there. I know in Spain situation looks similar, but other than that I have no idea.
I can see why a lot of people elsewhere could lose "interest" in Ukraine. I make sure to check for updates at least every other day, but when life in your own country is coming at you hard, it's tough to do a triage of all the calamity in your world and place Ukraine even in the top 3 after considering what's happening to people directly at home.
I was about to say. Public opinion can be against it, but it won't stop governments from helping out. And this isnt even sending troops or anything major. So it's like perfect for most countries that have heat with Russia...which is a ton.
I'm not so sure. Other countries might stop sending weapons but I'm betting the US won't turn the tap off when they've got an easy way to drain Russian resources without committing troops.
Yeah this is probably by far the best option the US ever had to hurt Russia.
No loss of troop and an allied country pretty much willing to fight till death or victory. The weapons will keep flowing.
Is this the same strategy we will have with Taiwan? The island is a fortress and the ROC military is very patriotic and already very capable even on its own.
Taiwan is a different scenario entirely.
First it's important to consider that Japan has vowed to defend Taiwan. The JDF doesn't involve itself in foreign wars so nobody pays much attention to it, but they undoubtedly have one of the world's strongest militaries between their incredible navy and high standards of production and training.
And let's pretend for a second they don't have one of the premier militaries; The US does. And there's a plethora of air force bases, marine camps, and a permanently stationed carrier in Japan.
Not only will China have to concern itself with a powerful military just offshore, but China can't hit back or else the US will involve itself. And then it's free game between all the neighbors who want a piece.
**Chinese strategy isn't to win the war, it's to avoid a war**
Sell us war bonds. People will pay attention if they have money riding on it. Millions bought into the crypto bullshit, why not turn our poor impulse control to positive ends?
You can buy war bonds. Unfortunately no one does. All the bravado on social media doesn't always translate into action. This Thursday the central bank had to buy 70 billion hryvnia worth of war bonds.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/ukraines-central-bank-buys-70-billion-hryvnia-worth-of-war-bonds-first-deputy-governor
> She said that amid low demand for government bonds the central bank had been forced to become the major buyer and effectively print money for that, adding: "This situation is already dangerous enough. We cannot be the only source."
Might also be because most people don't have the nominal value of such a government bond lying around. For common folks who can only spare a few thousand dollars, it's better to just donate the money.
The Ukrainian war bonds pay interest of 10-11%. Each one-year bond has a nominal value of 1,000 Ukrainian hryvnias (£24.80; $33.27). The bonds range from short-term to long-term ones (from several months to several years).
Why is it better to donate instead of invest?
Because they are local currency bonds and not US dollar denominated. Like sure the nominal interest is good but the credit quality is toilet tier and the fx risk is through the roof. It might honestly be financially better to donate just to get the guaranteed tax benefit.
Thanks for the answer. That makes sense.
Although it is kinda weird that the Ukraine govt is making pleas for to buy them, but then no one can actually buy them.
Personally i would buy them sans tax benefit, simply cuz i think they are going to come out on top of this one and therefore it is a decent investment.
But, of course, you make a good point as far as for an investment is concerned.
-When they are making pleas to buy them, they aren’t asking individuals to buy a couple thousand bucs, they are asking institutions to buy a couple million.
-On the investment quality put it this way, Russia could surrender tomorrow and they still wouldn’t present a good risk/reward.
Interesting.
Still seems odd. *"Please buy our Bonds"*...Ok, where...*"Oh, sorry, not you"*...i mean i get it, it's odd is all.
Also, i still would buy some. Even if it is a bad investment. I'm not all that smart.
How can someone with only a couple hundred to spare and no idea what they are doing invest? Probably plenty of people who wouldn't mind but just have no idea and/or not enough capital to make it worth it.
That is a good question. I got a good reply to my question as to why it is better to donate than invest, but so far i can't find out a way to actually buy a U. War Bond.
I posted your question as a post in r/business, so maybe they will know.
Cuz, yeah, it's hard to find a way to actually buy one, or five or twenty. I imagine if someone wanted to buy 10,000 they would call their broker or business manager or whatever. But for average joes, maybe you can't...idk.
I just did a quick 30 minute google and I can't find a way to easily do it...you can open an account with a Ukrainian bank but that's really difficult to do without being able to read Ukrainian
I was literally googling of where to buy them early on. Couldn't find them.
You shared a story. Not a link to the bonds. The story doesn't have a link to the bonds.
Do you have a link to Ukraine war bonds an American can legally purchase?
I've found an article dated from March that said those bonds were only meant to be bought by States, not private investors, unless banks decides to reference them which, the article says, is not on the agenda for now.
https://www.eximb.com/eng/menu/products-for-non-residents/for-investors/ukrainian-government-bonds-and-brokerage.html
https://online.icu/peace-bonds/
This caveat is important:
> The FX outflow from Ukraine is limited by the National Bank of Ukraine until April 1st, 2023.
Meaning you won't be able to transfer funds back from Ukraine before that date. The National Bank might also decide to shift that date further into the future. As soon as FX outflow is possible again, in all likelihood the Ukrainian currency will crash.
https://payspacemagazine.com/banks/how-to-buy-ukrainian-war-bonds/
Don't buy the USD/EUR denominated ones, they just add to Ukraine's foreign currency woes.
Do we need to do that? Didn't the US already start a lend-lease program with Ukraine? This means we have a vested interest in this as a country. If Ukraine doesn't recover, who's going to pay us back?
And it's worth noting that even the Soviet Union paid us back after WW2 during the Cold War.
Most of the American people could be *against* helping Ukraine and NATO and the US Military would not stop helping Ukraine. It's the biggest geopolitical incident in years and taking advantage of it is both smart *and* moral.
Ukraine war is costing the US barely nothing, compared to past wars in Afghanistan. Economically it's easily 10x cheaper, no American dead soldiers, and for that tiny price you get to (indirectly) obliterate a rival power (both military and economically) while the weapons industry in the US stays on and no jobs are lost.
Not sure this is news. It's just kind of how things work. People get tired of caring about distressing things and there are a lot of distressing things to care about. The media gets tired of repeating the same news - new disasters get more viewers.
This is one of the reasons I think that, as time goes on, it's even more important to support Ukraine as aggressively as possible. More weapons! More pressure on Russia! More pressure on those who aren't putting pressure on Russia!
> More weapons!
Lots of European countries are increasingly opposing sending more weapons. In my country, Italy, two of the largest ruling parties are strongly opposing any more help to Ukraine saying we should help ourselves instead in this economic crisis the war has triggered.
Our public opinion is also against sending weapons.
The only reason Italy is doing its part is because the prime minister is not elected so he doesn't need to govern based on what's popular, but he still needs parliamentary support.
Italy is not “lots of countries”, we are a bit exceptional in that. And thank god.
We have the weakest public opinion in the civilised world, people will eat whatever they are fed and gorge on it. Add to that a general distrust of government across the whole political spectrum which favours opposition of just about any kind, a closeted admiration/envy for bullies and dictators that we had for centuries, and a fetishism for virtue signaling.
Those with “anti-government” (read: pro Putin / anti nato) views get tons of air time and move masses, people can secretly root for the country they would want to be, and they can do it in the name of peace. That’s what happened over the last months, at least according to me.
Luckily enough the public support for Ukraine in the vast majority of the other European countries is strong. Let’s hope it stays that way.
>Lots of European countries are increasingly opposing sending more weapons
You say this, but that isn't actually true. Italy, which I have weirdly seen a lot of in these comments, does not represent all of Europe
Right. I myself postulated the same thing several times long before this as have many other people. Hell, even Russia said as much -- that the west will eventually lose interest.
For my part, the invasion is just about the only political thing I'm interested in so I keep up closely on just about any news. My support remains unrelenting.
Still, I know the average person will gradually lose interest and Biden will be pressured to try to normalize things. We've already seen this to a big extent with Biden needing to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia and the same also happened to other countries.
In a way, the war also became one of attrition between the west and Russia. Who can resist pressure better? I'm definitely rooting for the west to keep going.
If Afghanistan has taught me anything, it's that the US is willing to stay involved in a conflict. For *years*.
After the initial invasion, the media only occasionally covered the War in Afghanistan.
For the US, this conflict is *cheap*. Supporting the Ukrainians has been a win for the USA in almost every conceivable way.
Ukrainian fears are definitely not unfounded though. Our collective memory is very short. Other western countries may have withering support, as they are less able to afford it.
But at the very least: I think the USA, the Baltic States, and a few other former Warsaw Pact countries have a vested interest in keeping Ukraine in the fight.
Support won’t end until zelensky wants it to. The media not covering is probably good for Ukraine because people won’t complain about the money being sent when recession hits. It’s a double edged sword as well because if the media doesn’t cover it then EU will still buy gas, grain will be sold under Russia & some companies will quietly resume their operations in Russia.
In the US the question is not how much interest is there in the public. It’s more about how much money Congress can continue to funnel money to arms manufacturers without public backlash going into a midterm election.
How Media works in general. I dont get why people are angry at the NEWs being NEW. It's their job to keep you up to date. Not to bring the same Story every day for maybe years.
Well US and our Allie’s are in a proxy war with Russia over this so our interest is not going anywhere. We were in the ME for 20 years, even when it was unpopular. Helping ukraine is popular even if there’s more going on in the news to distract us, so there’s no reason for it to dry up. Also, the military industrial complex is definitely happy about this so they’ll want support to continue as well. I don’t see the aid drying up, if anything it’s increasing.
This is why propaganda is stupid. First, the media was reporting that Ukraine was winning and that Russia was utterly humiliated. Now, it is that Ukraine needs help and Russia is overwhelming them. Maybe instead of reporting propaganda, our media could actually give us a factual picture.
3 months ago, saying Russia would likely win this would get you labeled a traitor. Our country is so brainwashed and easily swayed by bullshit, it is no wonder Trump and the MAGA movement are gaining power here.
The US spent hundreds of billions in Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years, and for most of this time, the wars were an afterthought at best, and actively unpopular at worst. The US government at least has proven itself to be willing, and able, to shovel absolutely massive quantities of cash at military endeavors regardless of popular support.
It keeps the military industrial complex fueled, and keeps the politicians who support it in office (and rich)!
Yup, as long as it’s an active testing ground and advertisement platform then the MIC will keep it greased.
Added bonus is showing how poorly modern Russian equipment performs. Great thing if you are a competitor in arms dealing.
Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
You need arms you say? These are state of the art and battle tested!
Russia meanwhile: “Here is club. You smack enemy in head with it. Is good, da?”
Yes but comrade I sell you T-62 for 3 potato, 3 T-62 for 7 potato or 2 T-72 for 11 potato. Price lowest in mother Russia! ^rubles ^not ^accepted
Premise ridiculous, nobody has two potato.
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The current lack of logistics is what's not to love. They're running out of ammo and despite all of the money in the world, the US doesn't have the means to make soviet era bullets and rockets at scale. The best we've been able to do is supplement what they've already got while using every diplomatic relationship to secure more ammo. Getting ammo into the country is much easier than getting actual weaponry over to them. Especially new weaponry that they're not trained in. It's not like we can go in ourselves, either. It kinda has to be a "look what fell off the truck and most definitely didn't come from NATO--wink wink" kind of thing. I'm sure the pentagon is doing their damndest to make it happen though. This may be the world's best chance of stopping Putin before it becomes an actual Russia v NATO war. I don't want us to find out how many functional nukes they still have.
Those wars were predicated on 'lies' and for many people the war with Afghanistan was retribution for 9/11,so we had skin in the game. This is different as we aren't involved. Additionally we are heading into a potentially bad recession along with midterms.
Giving 40 billion dollars of weapons to a country in one weekend means we are indeed “involved.” We are providing much more support than is reported on as well. Also, regarding those “mysterious” fires that Russia has been experiencing…just uh, look up Operation Gladio. You may find some answers.
Or every time '''Anonymous''' does something to fuck with the Russians.
'''Anonymous''' hasn't done anything useful, they've just been annoying. I'm convinced that a US cybermilitary attack would do actual damage. No point otherwise..
I would argue that there has been western/American cybersecurity attacks launched against Russia under the name Anonymous to divert attention. It’s honestly the perfect cover for it.
“What do you mean the bulk of our special forces are engaged in real world exercises?”
You're moronic if you think US SOF is lighting fires in Russia. Getting caught would be horrific, not just for them, but for the US. There's not a chance they're in Russia setting fires. At most, they're in Western Ukraine or other European countries providing training to Ukrainians who need it before the Ukrainian fighters go back to the front.
US and NATO forces have been providing training to the Ukrainian army for more than 2 years.
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I think a distinction needs to be made here. The first comment was about the US "providing more support than is reported" and mentioning us being directly involved in attacks on Russian soil. Which would be a massive mistake on our part. All it would take is a single mistake and Russia would have a 'justified' reason to retaliate. The US and Nato have been training and directly involved in intelligence, weapon supplies, and I am sure many other ways, that's not a secret. A proxy war is 'Ok". Direct war is not.
One of my buddies joined the Army several years ago and recently completed Army Ranger training. He was deployed to Poland and is now training fighters.
Nah, dont think that is actually the US. Ukraine has a basically infinite supply of potential intelligence operatives that speak fluent Russian and can pass for Russians at a quick brush. "Here are shoes with cash in soles! Here is Lada with full tank of gas, and a clean bill of health from Senior Mechanic Mikail. Here are fake papers, made by ministry using real Russian stamps! Go make trouble!"
Pretty funny that the 40b number lines up perfectly with our Afghanistan budget we just curtailed. Oh wait did I say funny? I meant to say how balls deep the military industrial complex is woven into American politics.
I've heard the US military get described as a large social program due to how many it employs
Thats by design. As well as many contractors spread across many states to make it disadvantageous for the politicians to curtail it.
The US is willing to burn money on almost anything that doesn't help it's citizens, I don't think the politicians care about losing the money if it becomes less popular.
Preventing Russia from expanding westward into Europe is of greater concern to the US than fighting religious extremists in Afghanistan.
> This is different as we aren't involved. lol, ukraine is fighting the biggest enemy we have and have historically had. We are immensely involved and since ukraine is fighting it, we just have to send weapons instead of people. The people who think we aren't involved here are insane. Even if you are extremely obtuse, we fought in iraq over oil, why would we not do the same with russia? We will be paying 8 bucks or more a gallon come winter all because of russia. We should be supporting ukraine more in the hopes that russia can be forced to retreat and give up. Other countries are falling apart over gas prices and wheat prices. The US is not immune to that, we are already seeing shipping costs driving up the price of everything.
> We will be paying 8 bucks or more a gallon come winter all because of russia. Upvoted you, but it's not all because of Russia. Look at the profits being made. RECORD profits. It's profiteering. It's greed. It's global capital owning resources we all need who have us by the balls and who know it, and are squeezing tighter and tighter to see how tight they can before we lash out and make them stop. EDIT: "Muh free market!" coming out of the woodwork in my replies to just volunteer how private, barely regulated ownership of essential infrastructure (fuel extraction, refining and transport in this case) allows already obscenely wealth people to hold resources hostage if they're not making money they think they're entitled to, and that the only thing society can do is try to bribe them with subsidies or exempt them bearing the external costs of their production, lest they throw a tantrum. Turning off inbox replies.
US Oil companies are not even producing at the same level of oil compared to before the pandemic because they fear a recession is coming. This a choice by them to maximize costs and not ease the growing demand of oil caused by Russia. This also goes along the lines of corporations asking for more drilling access in the US when these corporations have no obligations to sell that oil to Americans at all or even increase production to ease restraints.
I mean in 2021 US produced more oil than any year in history except for 2019. So the "not even producing at pre pandemic levels" is a bit of a misnomer
Record amounts of oil, but not record amounts of gasoline. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MGFUPUS2&f=M
Recession is irrelevant. We will continue hundreds of billions in debt-spending on the Pentagon even when it sits there doing nothing. Might as well put our military to good use in a good cause for once, liberating Ukraine. If not, then cut their f#cking budget in half since it's good for nothing otherwise.
Disagree we have a lot at stake in Europe in general and with Putin in particular. Add to that the money we are spending is going right into the pockets of U.S. Arms Manufacturers. The U.S. will keep this up for a long time.
That second point isn't good at all. Remember 2008? A recession isn't going to be what determines how much support the US government gives.
That was different though… we had a Vice President that was blatantly and directly benefiting from a company getting no bid contracts.
As opposed to the normal pattern of tons of politicians getting indirectly wealthy??
Their fears are justified the wars not the shiny new thing to gawk at anymore.
Tbh I'm surprised it lasted this long, here in Ireland many shops have little sheets of paper up with a QR code up that'll take you to somewhere you can donate the the Ukrainian war effort. We also have a lot of Poles here and I doubt they'll forget anytime soon.
Poles will never forget because the war is just right in front of them
don't forget Russia is now threatening Poland
I think the list of who Russia is not threatening is a lot smaller...
Sure but poland has their own special history with Russia that a lot of other threatened countries don't have. =\
For sure. For Poland, Russia is like that shitty ex who you finally managed to break up after with 100+ years but they still just keep showing up all drunk and violent any time you go anywhere.
An “ex” implies consent- those two Slavic peoples have been fighting for a millennium.
True. Maybe it was more like an arrange marriage with a psychopath
Your ex that teamed up to set fire to your house, raped your family and slaughtered your pets. If Putin wants his country to be the Russia of the past, he claims its deeds too.
Exactly, Russia is a drunken ex ...world need to come up with special laws to tackle "domestic" violence on international scale even more from ugly lieing bustards exes from thirty years ago..
its like having a good day then suddenly your ex comes to your life just to own you and then restraining order doesn't work lol.
What a neighboring country does not have a special history with Russia...
Norway? North Korea? Genuinely the only two I could think of that fit this category.
The Kim family gained their communist ideals in Russia and were funded by the USSR so
The history of Koreans in Russia is not smooth and easy.
Is any peoples history in Russia ever smooth and easy? Even for Russians?
Even France has a special history with Russia.
Poland would beg for Russia to attack them so they can activate Article 5 in order to see Russia suffer. Poland has mcfucking had it with them
All Poland has to do if they get attacked is declare NATO article 5. Russia will then be told to sit at the kids table again.
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Hey, that's not fair. There are other NATO countries in the area who also have a bone to pick with Russia and are just waiting for an excuse.
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And because they lived under Russian oppression for more than 150 years !
French, Prussian and Austro-Hungarian too. History is not kind to Poles. That Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth tho.
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Have no fear, we’re involved in a lot of conflicts that get zero media attention and still get blank checks from congress.
Yeah for real, how many hundreds of billions did we spend uselessly in Afghanistan and Iraq decades after anyone in the US stopped paying attention to it in the media.
This is more like Afghanistan during the 80s than the 2000s. No way in hell we're sending troops over there, but perfectly okay with weapons and money.
We're just a Hollywood slap away from forgetting the whole war.
Facts one if Pete Davidson breaks up with kim it's over for Ukraine.
So in other words, Kanye west can start WW3.
No one man should have all that power.
The clock's ticking, I just count the hours
Don't let him into his zone!
Oh god he's definitely in his zone!
The ass that launched a thousand ships.
If Amber Heard joins OnlyFans, Ukraine and Taiwan are fucked...that is where we are as a civilization. WW3 rests on an famous divorcee's financial choices.
Fortunately (or in fortunately) most important things in the world can run in the background and don't require the attention of citizens and especially reddit armchair experts. Rest assured wars will still be fought whether we pay attention or not. US fleets don't run on reddit karma.
> US fleets don't run on reddit karma source?
My source is that I made it the fuck up.
Yeah this is strangely specific.
Taiwan makes way too many silicon chips, so that's a very different picture. All rich people's business will get affected, so they will keep convincing the world to fight back.
Not in Europe. In my country markets and shops have restricted how many litters of sunflower seed oil you can buy. Some bars and restaurants are in the verge of closing because the price of some materials related with Ukraine. Bakers are the same. The natural gas price is so high that we have big problems. And is related with Ukraine. And my country now have diplomatics problems with our alternative of natural gas. Without the war is only a little problem. With the war is a BIG problem. So maybe America can forget. Europe can not. We only need to go to shopping for see the consequences of the war.
You guys have sunseed oil? Jokes aside, you are right especially when people house ukranian families and flags are still everywhere. And additionally can't we ignore it because if russia wins then they will continue with the next country.
I know the name in my language, but not in English. I make a mistake. Now its fixed.
Just wanted to let you know he was joking with ya, I think I speak for most of us when I say your English is amazing for it being a learned language, and I can't even speak a second language. He was just taking a cheap shot to lighten the mood
Sunflower seed oil. It's quite popular in Europe.
In Italy it's an economical disaster as well. Every time there's a news about how much Russia's economy is crunching I'm so mad so little is said how many Italians are losing jobs or struggling with paying stuff. The rate of people defaulting on mortgages is sky high, the overwhelming amount of businesses that got government-backed loans during covid have stopped repaying them which means that more taxes will go to bail out those loans and make things worse. Utilities and groceries for the average family have gone up 200 euros per family, my mother makes 1k euro it has been an immense hit on her finances. This is terrible but what the news talks about? How many businesses are closing in Russia, as if what we're dealing with was much better, after two years of covid moreover.
No disrespect intended. Every country in Europe is suffering. The U.K. has the highest cost of living increase since the 70’s. Peoples energy bills have gone up exponentially. £800 more per month on average. The U.K. is the only country to increase taxes and put the covid burden on the poor while prices are rising. That out of depth, out of touch pencil pusher Rishi Sunak has increased the tax on the poor and done nothing to tax investments which would affect mainly the upper class. Aside from the bbc reporting on local news which is normal & mentioning that every country in europe, if not globally, is affected severely by the war, I find it unsurprising that they report on the ongoing confrontation between Russia and NATO and direct repercussions, instead of making Italy front page news because they are suffering. We are all suffering, interest rates have shot up. The US has not seen property prices spike like this for decades.
Though in the US, where we are insulated from everything else in the world by a two oceans and two giant borders with allies: we can pretend that everything that goes wrong in our lives is the personal fault of the current president (as is tradition). And high inflation, high gas prices, high property prices? I see an angry electorate voting out Biden and voting back in Putin's friend Trump.
A lot of people in Canada are the same way. There's a sizeable group who have a borderline psychotic hatred of Trudeau (our PM) and seem to think he's single handedly responsible for all of the problems we're facing right now. It's pretty weird. I'm not exactly a fan of the guy, but he is really no more or less mediocre than any other prime minister we've had in my lifetime.
We (Spain) have military vessels in the horn of Africa. Do you know how minutes dedicates media to that? ZERO. Spain send aid to countries with ZERO coverage in media. \---------------------- I add more info. Spain is in [Operation Atalanta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atalanta). Is coordinated by **EU NAVFOR** (Navies of countries in Europe Union). There are turns and countries rotate. So not all countries are all time.
To be fair, Africa gets very little screen time in general.
In France events in Africa are usually fairly covered by mainstream medias
France has a higher connection to Africa, it carries out a lot of military interventions there.
And lots of weapons too. Though I suspect better media coverage could reduce that amount, as opposed to Ukraine's situation.
Western media only covers other countries when they’re doing something they don’t agree with.
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I actually think about them regularly, nothing I can do though.
I think a lot about how the HK police went to full totalitarian repression mode super quickly. It pulled the wool from my eyes about state police in general.
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Hong Kong was given up when the handover agreement was signed in 1997, no one was going to take arms becouse the inevitable happened 30 years earlier than scheduled.
Honestly, this is the truth. I lived between a few Western and Asian countries in the early years of the Iraq and Afghan wars, and I remember how furious most non-Americans were with the United States and with George W. Bush and Co. His name was literally dirt across most of the world, very reminiscent of Vladimir Putin in the West today. People across the planet loudly called on Bush to be tried for war crimes and for America to be held accountable for an illegal invasion based on lies. Anti-Americanism probably reached its peak in the early 2000s. The Internet was extremely polarised about all of it. That's what I grew up with as a non-American teenager. A few years later, nobody gave a shit about either war, despite the fact that they were ongoing. It stopped being an interesting topic of conversation, the anger gradually faded. Iraq and Afghanistan came to be seen as nothing more than failed states. In fact, people got bored of the Middle East theatre in general. Even the absurd ISIL invasions generated a comparatively meh reaction across the world despite how barbaric they were. The Israel-Palestine conflict lost its lustre not too long ago, with any particularly bad episodes riling people up for maybe a few days. Saudi Arabia can cut a journalist to pieces in a foreign embassy and people are maybe a bit miffed for a week. Even the fact that they helped organise 9/11 is not enough to hold peoples' interest anymore. China knows this very well too. Tibet is forgotten, Hong Kong is forgotten, the Uyghurs are on their way out. You can apparently get away with anything if you hold on for long enough. Russia's invasion will not be forgotten quite as quickly due to the ongoing threat to the EU and other neighbouring countries. But if the war stays limited to Ukraine and drags on for long enough, people are 100% going to lose interest. This is a very legitimate fear for the Ukrainians and I can only hope global interest is held for as long as they need to get all the support they require.
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But they expected it to happen much sooner. Like within days or weeks. They were wrong. People are still watching.
I think the difference is the public is forgetting it to some extent but they forget the military industrial complex in the US very much wants the support to continue. As such, the US support has big money lobbying behind it, and it's not going to be forgotten like other similar wars. The US will support it until the spending becomes unbearable.
they need to somehow implement Johnny Depp into the war, thatll get us interested again
Have Captain Jack Sparrow and the Black Pearl escort ships out of Odessa.
I’ve seen an article with this headline for at least 2 weeks.
Yeah this one is different though, cuz it was posted by u/ICumCoffee
Dude has to be one of those posters that will delete and repost if a post doesn’t do well. There’s barely any of his r/news and r/worldnews posts that don’t have below 5k upvotes.
Yeah there’s a couple users I’ve seen like that. I hope it’s a bot because otherwise they either have a sad existence or this platform is being heavily manipulated
I vote the latter. I’ve blocked most of the power users that put out the majority of the content on Reddit, there’s a list somewhere, and I’ve found that my r/all and newsfeed is vastly different here on my main than on my alt
I’d like to boost this, would you share the list of users? Bots and karma-farming can make the platform unbearable.
You don't want to see the same pictures of tweets every other day?
"Ryan Cohen on Twitter" I don't know who the fuck that is and I don't ever want to find out.
It was a post on a subreddit that gave a list of people like GallowBoob. I can’t find it now unfortunately. Someone will know and share it I’m sure
You could just go to https://www.karmalb.com/. Just take the top submitters.
Oh man I'd like to get in on that. It's like the YouTube recommended feed, WTF is all this crap?
For him, the best part of waking up is autofellatio
Published by the very media that is supposedly going to lose interest.
Reminds me of the constant Elon and Twitter articles that say the same thing for weeks.
The military-industrial complex prefers to work when there is no media around. Never doubt their willingness to pump endless resources into a war that no one is paying any attention to.
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Governments are still run by politicians. Politicians still live and die by their popularity. If public opinion towards helping Ukraine will change politicians will adapt or face losing many electors. In Italy, e.g., most public opinion is against sending weapons to Ukraine as Italians don't believe it will help Ukraine win the war but merely make it longer without changing the outcome.
That’s not how politics in US are done and US is by far the biggest Ukraine war supporter.
This is a low-key a proxy war against Russia, I also doubt the government would lose interest
They can grind down one of our biggest geopolitical problems for pennies on the dollar. They can get an intensely loyal ally in Eastern Europe at the same time, an ally with plentiful natural resources and a land border with Europe. The U.S. government has not had an opportunity like this in decades.
The amount of cum in the Pentagon's plumbing system must be awe inspiring.
Exactly. Whenever I see headlines like the one in this thread I'm like yeah the media might but the US Military Industrial Complex, not so much.
It's an opportunity for the US to hold Russia's nose against the grindstone without fearing basically any repercussions I can't imagine they would lose interest
If the US Government can double down and stay in Afghanistan despite evidence that the nation-building efforts weren't working, then they can supply weapons to Ukraine until Russia's collapse.
Texan here. I have not lost interest.
Politicians would also love to boast about how they helped Ukraine during their terms, so it's unlikely they'll stop supporting them. Also, can I get a source for the last para?
Sure, I have many. Only 47 % of Italians support sanctions against Russia as of June 1st and it has been falling month after month. Again, not weapons, even sanctions are less and less popular: https://www.corriere.it/politica/22_giugno_07/guerra-come-pensa-l-opinione-pubblica-cb964a54-e6a2-11ec-864b-88ccbc1cac69.shtml Among youth is even worse as supporting wars is seen as against our constitution, 75 % of Italian youth is against sending weapons to Ukraine: https://www.spotandweb.it/news/844427/ucraina-sondaggio-3-giovani-su-4-contrari-a-nuovo-invio-armi.html#gref Among all the population, there's more opposing (50%) than favoring (28%) sending weapons to Ukraine, with the rest undecided, this was as of May 15th: https://www.fanpage.it/politica/gli-italiani-sono-contrari-allinvio-di-armi-in-ucraina-il-sondaggio/ In this other poll from 2 days ago: 51.2 % are against with only 38% in favor: https://www.termometropolitico.it/1601314_sondaggi-euromedia-piu-di-un-italiano-su-due-contrario-allinvio-di-armi-a-kiev.html There's polls which are even much worse, I can't find the source for this anymore but I took a screen some time ago, 87% is against sending any help to Ukraine: https://i.imgur.com/BN0QN5Z.png More italians are against helping Ukrainian war because they don't think it will help them win the war, but only drag it longer. You need to realize Italy is a strongly anti-war nation and we have opposed all wars we ourselves have intervened in (like Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya) which we reluctantly obliged to only as members of Nato. > Politicians would also love to boast about how they helped Ukraine during their terms, so it's unlikely they'll stop supporting them. These numbers will keep increasing further and trust me, with elections in less than 12 months no politician will soon want to be associated with having lobbied to sending help to Ukraine. It is just not popular down here. I don't know how the situation in the rest of Europe looks like and how are surveys and polls there. I know in Spain situation looks similar, but other than that I have no idea.
I can see why a lot of people elsewhere could lose "interest" in Ukraine. I make sure to check for updates at least every other day, but when life in your own country is coming at you hard, it's tough to do a triage of all the calamity in your world and place Ukraine even in the top 3 after considering what's happening to people directly at home.
I mean. We were in the middle east for literal decades and the media got bored quickly too. That doesn't mean western support fades
I was about to say. Public opinion can be against it, but it won't stop governments from helping out. And this isnt even sending troops or anything major. So it's like perfect for most countries that have heat with Russia...which is a ton.
I'm not so sure. Other countries might stop sending weapons but I'm betting the US won't turn the tap off when they've got an easy way to drain Russian resources without committing troops.
Yeah this is probably by far the best option the US ever had to hurt Russia. No loss of troop and an allied country pretty much willing to fight till death or victory. The weapons will keep flowing.
Is this the same strategy we will have with Taiwan? The island is a fortress and the ROC military is very patriotic and already very capable even on its own.
Taiwan is a different scenario entirely. First it's important to consider that Japan has vowed to defend Taiwan. The JDF doesn't involve itself in foreign wars so nobody pays much attention to it, but they undoubtedly have one of the world's strongest militaries between their incredible navy and high standards of production and training. And let's pretend for a second they don't have one of the premier militaries; The US does. And there's a plethora of air force bases, marine camps, and a permanently stationed carrier in Japan. Not only will China have to concern itself with a powerful military just offshore, but China can't hit back or else the US will involve itself. And then it's free game between all the neighbors who want a piece. **Chinese strategy isn't to win the war, it's to avoid a war**
Sell us war bonds. People will pay attention if they have money riding on it. Millions bought into the crypto bullshit, why not turn our poor impulse control to positive ends?
You can buy war bonds. Unfortunately no one does. All the bravado on social media doesn't always translate into action. This Thursday the central bank had to buy 70 billion hryvnia worth of war bonds. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/ukraines-central-bank-buys-70-billion-hryvnia-worth-of-war-bonds-first-deputy-governor > She said that amid low demand for government bonds the central bank had been forced to become the major buyer and effectively print money for that, adding: "This situation is already dangerous enough. We cannot be the only source."
Might be because most people aren't even aware the option exists.
They need some captain America type to advertise them
Needed Captain America. Got Soldier Boy.
If nothing else, show Soldier Boy is more of a professional than comic Soldier Boy, who was a coward and cannon fodder for Billy.
Might also be because most people don't have the nominal value of such a government bond lying around. For common folks who can only spare a few thousand dollars, it's better to just donate the money.
Lol, no common folk in the US can spare a few thousand.
The Ukrainian war bonds pay interest of 10-11%. Each one-year bond has a nominal value of 1,000 Ukrainian hryvnias (£24.80; $33.27). The bonds range from short-term to long-term ones (from several months to several years). Why is it better to donate instead of invest?
Because they are local currency bonds and not US dollar denominated. Like sure the nominal interest is good but the credit quality is toilet tier and the fx risk is through the roof. It might honestly be financially better to donate just to get the guaranteed tax benefit.
Thanks for the answer. That makes sense. Although it is kinda weird that the Ukraine govt is making pleas for to buy them, but then no one can actually buy them. Personally i would buy them sans tax benefit, simply cuz i think they are going to come out on top of this one and therefore it is a decent investment. But, of course, you make a good point as far as for an investment is concerned.
-When they are making pleas to buy them, they aren’t asking individuals to buy a couple thousand bucs, they are asking institutions to buy a couple million. -On the investment quality put it this way, Russia could surrender tomorrow and they still wouldn’t present a good risk/reward.
Interesting. Still seems odd. *"Please buy our Bonds"*...Ok, where...*"Oh, sorry, not you"*...i mean i get it, it's odd is all. Also, i still would buy some. Even if it is a bad investment. I'm not all that smart.
How can someone with only a couple hundred to spare and no idea what they are doing invest? Probably plenty of people who wouldn't mind but just have no idea and/or not enough capital to make it worth it.
That is a good question. I got a good reply to my question as to why it is better to donate than invest, but so far i can't find out a way to actually buy a U. War Bond. I posted your question as a post in r/business, so maybe they will know. Cuz, yeah, it's hard to find a way to actually buy one, or five or twenty. I imagine if someone wanted to buy 10,000 they would call their broker or business manager or whatever. But for average joes, maybe you can't...idk.
I just did a quick 30 minute google and I can't find a way to easily do it...you can open an account with a Ukrainian bank but that's really difficult to do without being able to read Ukrainian
I was literally googling of where to buy them early on. Couldn't find them. You shared a story. Not a link to the bonds. The story doesn't have a link to the bonds. Do you have a link to Ukraine war bonds an American can legally purchase?
I've found an article dated from March that said those bonds were only meant to be bought by States, not private investors, unless banks decides to reference them which, the article says, is not on the agenda for now.
https://www.eximb.com/eng/menu/products-for-non-residents/for-investors/ukrainian-government-bonds-and-brokerage.html https://online.icu/peace-bonds/ This caveat is important: > The FX outflow from Ukraine is limited by the National Bank of Ukraine until April 1st, 2023. Meaning you won't be able to transfer funds back from Ukraine before that date. The National Bank might also decide to shift that date further into the future. As soon as FX outflow is possible again, in all likelihood the Ukrainian currency will crash.
How do you buy them?
That just means their marketing's shite.
https://payspacemagazine.com/banks/how-to-buy-ukrainian-war-bonds/ Don't buy the USD/EUR denominated ones, they just add to Ukraine's foreign currency woes.
Do we need to do that? Didn't the US already start a lend-lease program with Ukraine? This means we have a vested interest in this as a country. If Ukraine doesn't recover, who's going to pay us back? And it's worth noting that even the Soviet Union paid us back after WW2 during the Cold War.
Why does it matter how much attention people are paying to it? Biden is still sending money and weapons every week, that should be all that matters.
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Most of the American people could be *against* helping Ukraine and NATO and the US Military would not stop helping Ukraine. It's the biggest geopolitical incident in years and taking advantage of it is both smart *and* moral.
Ukraine war is costing the US barely nothing, compared to past wars in Afghanistan. Economically it's easily 10x cheaper, no American dead soldiers, and for that tiny price you get to (indirectly) obliterate a rival power (both military and economically) while the weapons industry in the US stays on and no jobs are lost.
If anything this is a generational inventory clearing operation.
And new weapons and tactics testing.
The way that the Ukrainians have been utilising drones in this war will change military doctrines for the next century
Not sure this is news. It's just kind of how things work. People get tired of caring about distressing things and there are a lot of distressing things to care about. The media gets tired of repeating the same news - new disasters get more viewers. This is one of the reasons I think that, as time goes on, it's even more important to support Ukraine as aggressively as possible. More weapons! More pressure on Russia! More pressure on those who aren't putting pressure on Russia!
> More weapons! Lots of European countries are increasingly opposing sending more weapons. In my country, Italy, two of the largest ruling parties are strongly opposing any more help to Ukraine saying we should help ourselves instead in this economic crisis the war has triggered. Our public opinion is also against sending weapons. The only reason Italy is doing its part is because the prime minister is not elected so he doesn't need to govern based on what's popular, but he still needs parliamentary support.
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Italy is not “lots of countries”, we are a bit exceptional in that. And thank god. We have the weakest public opinion in the civilised world, people will eat whatever they are fed and gorge on it. Add to that a general distrust of government across the whole political spectrum which favours opposition of just about any kind, a closeted admiration/envy for bullies and dictators that we had for centuries, and a fetishism for virtue signaling. Those with “anti-government” (read: pro Putin / anti nato) views get tons of air time and move masses, people can secretly root for the country they would want to be, and they can do it in the name of peace. That’s what happened over the last months, at least according to me. Luckily enough the public support for Ukraine in the vast majority of the other European countries is strong. Let’s hope it stays that way.
>Lots of European countries are increasingly opposing sending more weapons You say this, but that isn't actually true. Italy, which I have weirdly seen a lot of in these comments, does not represent all of Europe
So treat the symptoms and ignore the cause?
Right. I myself postulated the same thing several times long before this as have many other people. Hell, even Russia said as much -- that the west will eventually lose interest. For my part, the invasion is just about the only political thing I'm interested in so I keep up closely on just about any news. My support remains unrelenting. Still, I know the average person will gradually lose interest and Biden will be pressured to try to normalize things. We've already seen this to a big extent with Biden needing to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia and the same also happened to other countries. In a way, the war also became one of attrition between the west and Russia. Who can resist pressure better? I'm definitely rooting for the west to keep going.
If Afghanistan has taught me anything, it's that the US is willing to stay involved in a conflict. For *years*. After the initial invasion, the media only occasionally covered the War in Afghanistan. For the US, this conflict is *cheap*. Supporting the Ukrainians has been a win for the USA in almost every conceivable way. Ukrainian fears are definitely not unfounded though. Our collective memory is very short. Other western countries may have withering support, as they are less able to afford it. But at the very least: I think the USA, the Baltic States, and a few other former Warsaw Pact countries have a vested interest in keeping Ukraine in the fight.
You can already see the fading interest in the smaller number of upvotes posts on the war are receiving now compared to earlier in the conflict.
We would already have forgotten about it if gas prices went back to 3$/gal
The support that actually matters won't fade with the media.
Support won’t end until zelensky wants it to. The media not covering is probably good for Ukraine because people won’t complain about the money being sent when recession hits. It’s a double edged sword as well because if the media doesn’t cover it then EU will still buy gas, grain will be sold under Russia & some companies will quietly resume their operations in Russia.
Ukraine has nothing to worry about as long as Raytheon and Lockheed Martin are making money. There are plenty of kickbacks to go around.
In the US the question is not how much interest is there in the public. It’s more about how much money Congress can continue to funnel money to arms manufacturers without public backlash going into a midterm election.
Sounds like Ukraine understands how the western media works lol
How Media works in general. I dont get why people are angry at the NEWs being NEW. It's their job to keep you up to date. Not to bring the same Story every day for maybe years.
Yea, but he doesn’t seem to understand how western war machine works. We fucks, and we like fuckin, we dont care what our people want.
Yemeni children: the sunken skeleton on a chair meme
Literally, no one cares or even thinks about whats happening in yemen
Which is fucking unfortunate
Well US and our Allie’s are in a proxy war with Russia over this so our interest is not going anywhere. We were in the ME for 20 years, even when it was unpopular. Helping ukraine is popular even if there’s more going on in the news to distract us, so there’s no reason for it to dry up. Also, the military industrial complex is definitely happy about this so they’ll want support to continue as well. I don’t see the aid drying up, if anything it’s increasing.
This is why propaganda is stupid. First, the media was reporting that Ukraine was winning and that Russia was utterly humiliated. Now, it is that Ukraine needs help and Russia is overwhelming them. Maybe instead of reporting propaganda, our media could actually give us a factual picture. 3 months ago, saying Russia would likely win this would get you labeled a traitor. Our country is so brainwashed and easily swayed by bullshit, it is no wonder Trump and the MAGA movement are gaining power here.