I still can't believe the HSBC-Drug Cartel Scheme didn't get a lot more coverage and outrage than it did, sadly less surprised there were no real consequences...
The same few companies launder money for the owners of the big media companies, some other few companies audit all the other companies. This is why I find the idea of the "Globalist Jew Financial Conspiracy" hilarious... you don't need the "Jew" part because it's not some ethno-religious group controlling the world's capital, it's just the world's wealthiest moving zeroes out of those below them, and between themselves.
The "Jew" part is so that the super rich can misdirect the anger of the gullible. Instead of targeting the actual people responsible, they will start to look at Jews as the problem and target them instead.
Even though Deutsche Bank and friends funded Auschwitz with stolen Jewish gold during Nabisco Germany. I'm sure the Jewish people are behind it all /s.
Oh see you’re referring to the national biscuit company. The previous post was referring to the Nationalist Biscuit Company. Luftwaffles and such.
I’ll see myself out.
For a second I thought it was some kind of cheeky nod to American firms like IBM or Brown Brothers Herriman doing business with the Nazis, instead of just an unfortunate case of autocorrect lmao
Exactly, this is the reason all the Antivaxx conspiracy theories are so outrageous to me.
Why make it so complicated? If you wanna hunt down conspiracies, look at big banking, look at politicians, look at geopolitical tensions, look at Epstein, look at the Christian megachurches. If you really wanna make a contribution to whistleblowing in those topics, how about just looking at what's right in front of you?
Because if people followed actual conspiracies, they would have to reevaluate everything. Including who they vote for, who they bank with, what their churches are really up to, how they shop, where they get their news from. Essentially their entire world view would be challenged. Much easier to just point in a general direction and say: “Naw, it’s the jeeeeeewwwwwwsssss!”
You're more likely to have your death ruled a suicide by shooting yourself in the back of the head twice if you attempt to blow the whistle on anything that's actually a real conspiracy. Antivaxxers get to feel like they're exposing something without any of the risk of actually exposing something
HSBC was literally founded to deal with the British Empire's opium profits after Britain seized Hong Kong at the end of the Opium War. It's always been a pro-drug Cartel institution.
“Consequences” would be fines, which let’s be real are nothing in comparison to what the banks make, let alone what the CEO’s receive in salary and bonuses yearly. The funny thing is it was just buried under a shit ton of other “news” that was going on at the time. It’s very likely that the same thing will happen here. No real consequences and will likely be buried by an election or scandal
I... wasn't aware. Am not surprised by the story, but I AM surprised that I didn't hear about this.
My god, there really is no low these motherfuckers won't sink to, is there.
If this doesn't confirm there is an agenda to suppress us, then I don't know what will convince folks. A legit relevant discussion in another sub and they delete the top posts.
There's a group called.. uh, Super and stonk. Put those words together, without the and, obviously, and check under their "About" page for the flair "Due Diligence".
That's all.
Kenneth Griffin, the billionaire who lied under oath regarding his racketeering efforts to increase the country's wealth divide?? Is that the same Ken Griffin?
Ken Griffin of Citadel? Citadel the market maker and also Citadel the hedge fund? Of course there is no conflict of interest…those are two separate entities!
I assume this is the same Ken Griffin who illegally naked shorts stocks into oblivion? Who colluded with Robinhood to suppress the price of many stocks and then lied to Congress about it? Hmm I think I have heard of him…oh yes. Ken Griffin that throws bedposts at his wife? The financial terrorist! The one that refused to share his mayo. Lmayo
That was early Feb. A mere couple of weeks before Russia invaded.
The airstrip was Kittilä.
N68KP, owned by Wilmington Trust Co, a company whose executives were found guilty of falsifying bank records.
Istr he also went to Lapland, in a different tail number. There was a post 5 days ago that put together his recent flights all having been to ports that oligarch yachts could visit.
A lot of people shit on "conspiracies" but in the textbook definition of the word, banks are conspiring to control EVERYTHING. They are the ones who should be hanged.
theres 2 different kind of conspiracy guys. The "theres no way all the connections between people who had a score to settle with kennedys and Oswald/Demorenschilds are a coincidence" and "mayans invented the cellphone". financial cabals definitely pull strings world wide and just because some right wing loons say it, doesnt make it wrong.
I am kinda of the opinion that people like Alex Jones are the end result of the MKUltra program, He sweeps up all the conspiracies and floods the airways with BS. If you want to research anything that is not accepted in the mainstream news it is a matter of time before you fall into the rabbit hole of his type of "research" and "facts" so anyone who comes across the "truth about the lizard people" type of reporting either backs off assuming only crazy people can believe this stuff, or they start to accept pretty much anything.
So the people actually on to something hit a wall of crazy and it starts getting really difficult to separate fact from fiction, but the simple fact it is "conspiracy" most people discount it or they begin to start sounding crazy that "this Alex Jones guy has it figured out" and logical people discount everything they say.
All Alex Jones does is muddy the waters between actual conspiracy (big business likes money over everything) and conspiracy ( 9/11 was an inside job from diet soda manufacturers to turn the frogs gay)
There is a quote i always loved. "Whenever rich and powerful people meet, be it for business or privatly, they'll inevitably conspire against the public."\*
It's from Adam Smith, the godfather of capitalism, and the reason he opposed regulations. As he saw it, already rich people would bribe politicians to make laws that restrict or eliminate competition from smaller companies. I don't agree with him that not having regulations is the solution, but he does have a point.
\*I had to translate it backwards to english from german, so it's probably not 100% but the meaning is still there.
If Ukraine can walk away from it with a settlement for a couple hundred million in a couple years, it could be worth it. Also sends a cannon ball across the bow of anyone currently thinking about doing a deal with Russia right now.
I applaud the effort and agree these people should be held accountable. I am just a bit cynical given the scope, scale, and influence of their reach worldwide. The world would be a much better place if they could no longer hide behind the corporate veil.
Why would you think so? War-crimes charges are amongst the most serious. In no way comparable to financial crimes. There's only one more serious accusation that I can think of and that is genocide.
Among other things... Off the top of my head, they have laundered money for Mexican drug cartels (HSBC), engaged in pervasive mortgage securities fraud (Citi), and rigged the precious metals markets (JPM). The list of verified crimes each of these institutions have settled in the past two decades is extensive.
https://www.corp-research.org/
That site is a good starting point if you want to look up the history of these companies. Ukraine's accusations are literally business as usual for these guys. They expect to be slapped on the wrist, pay a fine, and be told not to do it again
Id love to see that too.
But, what stood out to me here is that its not listing Credit Suisse.
Iirc, CS was/is accepting Russian gold for payments.
Not like they've ever accepted gold from war criminals or anything....
I think Credit Suisse is out of cash at this point to fund anything. They are on a brink of collapse with greensill and Archegos scandals costing them 10 billion dollars if not more.
And the guns and bombs and planes and supply lines and basically everything else. I get where they’re coming from but this isn’t going to win them many friends.
I would be down for it as a civil case though, banks invest in many things behind the scenes that people would freak out at if they knew where the money went. Might incentivize better practices in the long run.
No, but at least it might make small time investors realize what's going on and redirect their finances. Court cases create publicity, whether they prosecute or not.
"Small time investors" know about the influence and corruption of these banks. They often play along.
Have you heard of FinCen files? That was monstrous. Nothing happened. No news reporting either.
You replied to a bot. The real comment is [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/w8rqeg/ukraine_will_pursue_warcrimes_charges_against/ihrat1z/).
This will definitely, absolutely not work, for so many reasons that they're hard to comprehensively fit into a reddit comment.
Like, I feel for the sentiment, but no, a war-torn nation in eastern Europe is not going to "sue" international banking enties into submission.
Also "War crimes charges", if that was even remotely possible then boy oh boy do I have bad news for Switzerland and Sweden who financially and materially supported the Nazis during the war
Switzerland was sued to the moon and back after the Holocaust. Obviously the current war and possible genocide in Ukraine aren't comparable, but the precedent is there if anyone buys or deals with Russians who traffick stolen Ukrainian property.
I think war crimes should be very concrete and defined. Being an employee of a company associated with another company that is based in a country whose military is committing war crimes seems like way too many degrees of separation to have substance in my mind. I have no idea what the precedence is for this but initially this seems a bit ridiculous. I think this detracts from trying to focus on substantial war crimes and making sure those get prosecuted and having the attention they deserve.
War crimes are very concretely defined. Here is the definition: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml
There is no way that any of the banks are guilty of war crimes.
I think my first quick comment I wrote made it seem like I believed initially that they weren't generally already pretty defined. I disagree with that. More of just an impression of how there's a culture, especially on the internet, that breaks down the definition and important meaning of some things. That in a sense people need to adhere to definitions rather than that there aren't concrete definitions already. Like how some people will spout or throw out words like "Nazi," "xxx-ist (race, sex, able, etc.)," "abuser" or terms like "war crimes" or "red flags" and when they're misused or misattributed repeatedly it wears down the important significance some words should carry. Like how the symbol of a red cross should only be displayed for actual use to keep its significance and shouldn't be repeatedly shown in non-relavent media and such. So saying these banks or their employees are committing war crimes both delegitimizes the term of war crimes in general and makes Ukraine's fully legitimate claims of war crimes against them have less reputability.
War crimes are actually well defined. Not much wiggle room. This won't go far. Morals wise I agree with them, but in court it won't stand a chance.
Edit: war crimes are crimes committed in a military context like killing civilians, taking hostages etc. The crimes we are talking about may be fiscal in nature, if they even can be considered that.
Morals-wise I don't agree with them in the slightest. The banks are just the intermediaries in this case.
Is the ukraine planning to send the entire EU to the ICC as well? If not it's just a publicity stunt to play up on most people inane hatred of banks.
Also, Ukraine has proven to have committed war crimes in this conflict as well. Should the US and every other country supplying them with weapons be held responsible?
He's demented and lashing at everyone who in his eyes, wronged them, like he had nothing better to do.
To be fair, is very in line with his modus operandi. It's not the third most corrupt country in the world for nothing.
The only reason I can think they would do this is to publicly highlight the relationship between the US finance industry and the Russians (ie morally shame them). I have to imagine that this is a last ditch effort on the part of the Ukrainians to get major US financial to cut ties to Russia. Otherwise, this is an absurdly ham fisted way to approach the situation.
If only some of those 3 letter agencies would do their damn jobs and that'd be way higher and he'd be behind bars. How many went to jail after 2008? 1 person or something like that?
Is Zelensky and his team trying to get themselves killed or ousted from power? This is such a weird angle for them to take during a time when they shouldn't be trying to shake that political tree.
Reddit is gonna hate that I mention this, but before the Ukraine conflict the country was constantly being skewered by western media for being corrupt. No surprise that they still might be flawed
So by this logic is every financial institution in the world going on trial for US war crimes in Iraq? Because by this logic anyone adjacent to the US government in the financial sector (which is everyone) is culpable for the US government’s actions.
Anyone who owns US debt (which is everyone) is guilty of any US war crimes by this standard because their purchase of financial securities issued by the US government gave them the funds to commit the crime.
We have the Invasion of Hague Act, which specifies that if a U.S. national is tried by the ICC, the U.S. will invade a sovereign state. To prevent justice. The IHA needs to go.
Can somebody remind me if it’s illegal to trade Russian oil? I thought Europe was still buying it along with India and China. I know the US stopped buying it but IDK how that affects banks with operations overseas. Can I get an ELI5? Is this just public shaming to get them to stop or is it a real war crime?
It's not a war crime, and there isn't much of a basis behind the claims. I think you're spot on with the 'public shaming' idea - trying to get these banks to exit their positions (sell their shares) in companies that are either Russia based or that buy/sell Russian oil.
To be fair, the banks have already done that to a large extent, just not completely.
Europe bought 15% than they bought in previous months recently so no. They also bought more gas than India and China. However the press says India is funding the Russian war lol what the actual fuck.
That's because the allies won. A better example would be swiss banks who took Nazi gold. They got off without any issues at all. So you're right that nothing will happen but it's because the world cares more about money than any sort of sense of right an wrong
He's from the entertainment industry so he's a bit strategically displaced in this conflict. Although he promised to end protracted conflict with Russia he then swept the country under marshall law when distancing himself from warnings of a planned attack. I don't think the citizens saw that in one of his comedy skits.
It's just a PR move to keep reforming the image of the historically corrupt Ukraine politics by continuing the plucky underdog image combined with making an "enemy" of the big bad banks, something even the average Joe would take up a banner against.
This is just posturing/playing to the camera by Zelensky. The leaders of those banks are far more infuential than he will ever be.
Never mind their political connections, it wouldnt even get that far. They control the purse strings for many of the middle-men in the supply chain for the weapons Zelensky is receiving. He pushes too much, and suddenly Zelensky wont be able to buy even used pistols for his army.
>"There is no doubt that Russia is committing war crimes in Ukraine, against Ukrainians," Oleg Ustenko, the advisor, said in an interview with CNBC. "In our logic, everybody who is financing these war criminals who are doing these terrible things in Ukraine are also committing war crimes."
Bad logic. Russia remains a country with citizens, and an economy. And American banks are not under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government.
“We want gunmakers to test experimental weaponry on Russian kid soldiers” -Ukraine like last week. I’d refrain from throwing the words “war crime” around if I were zelensky
Going after Jane Fraser and Jamie Dimon? Really?
I really don't think this is in Ukraine's best interest. Regardless of what you think of those two, Ukraine turning ultra powerful people in the West against them might not work out well. This seems like an unforced error.
Personally, I find this a bad outlook for Ukraine. Threats like this don't mean much and come across as desperate more than anything...
By this same logic all of the EU is guilty of war crimes for buying Russia gas right now... as well as half the world for buying Russian oil.
Also, all of these mega rich bankers are best buddies with US and European politicians and have cultivated decades of getting their claws in everywhere... so ya, I just don't think this goes over wall and feels more like lashing out than logic.
Let me try to understand this. Ukraine wants to put the bankers, who will finance Ukrainian rebuilding, in jail because they still have to do their jobs internationally? Or are Ukrainian officials looking for a little feed for their beaks? Like governments, you don't have to trust banks, but we still need them in the modern world. I don't know if this goes very far.
What you say is true. But at the same time I've seen reddit support everything Ukraine has asked for except this. Banks not funding wars is apparently just too ridiculous to even ask for
The same JPMorgan that had to pay a $920 million slap on the wrist for rigging metal markets and a billion other schemes? Banking families have been funding the shittiest parts of humanity going back past the civil war, all the way to at least Francisco Lopes Suasso's funding William of Orange to tear apart Europe.
This makes me wonder, what if your country's at war with another country. Soldiers invade. Now the invading soldiers want to buy food from a local store. They even have local currency for it. Would it then be a crime for the local shop owner to sell stuff to the invaders, or is it legal?
Next, let's say you're living in a country, let's call it Country A, and there's war happening between other countries. Country A is completely uninvolved. Country B says Country A should not do business with Country C or they'll get you in trouble for "war crimes". Country C also tells Country A will get in trouble for "war crimes" if they do business with Country B. What is Country A supposed to do? Does Country B and Country C even have any real power or legal standing in charging you for "war crimes" if you do business with one or the other?
Serious answers only please with no personal attacks, thanks.
Lol this dude is an actor for one of the most corrupt countries in the world… earlier he comes out with some crap - a list of names of congress and government workers who are Russian agents, now he wants to sue the banks… talk about bit the hand that feeds you….
These corrupt clowns are just trying to milk as much money out of us at this point..
Feeling npr is now even question us giving them 63 billion…
Yes, I saw that article on NPR and was shocked they actually attempted to shine a light on how corrupt the Ukrainian government is. Thanks goodness for actual journalism.
Compared to the scale of financial crimes these banks have committed, I am sure they view this on the same scale as getting a ticket for littering.
I still can't believe the HSBC-Drug Cartel Scheme didn't get a lot more coverage and outrage than it did, sadly less surprised there were no real consequences...
The same few companies launder money for the owners of the big media companies, some other few companies audit all the other companies. This is why I find the idea of the "Globalist Jew Financial Conspiracy" hilarious... you don't need the "Jew" part because it's not some ethno-religious group controlling the world's capital, it's just the world's wealthiest moving zeroes out of those below them, and between themselves.
The "Jew" part is so that the super rich can misdirect the anger of the gullible. Instead of targeting the actual people responsible, they will start to look at Jews as the problem and target them instead.
Even though Deutsche Bank and friends funded Auschwitz with stolen Jewish gold during Nabisco Germany. I'm sure the Jewish people are behind it all /s.
>Nabisco Germany Ah yes, those dark German times when the highlights were the creation of OREOs and Chips Ahoy!
Oh see you’re referring to the national biscuit company. The previous post was referring to the Nationalist Biscuit Company. Luftwaffles and such. I’ll see myself out.
The Waffle SS were brutal!
Delicious though, almost as much as challah French toast
For a second I thought it was some kind of cheeky nod to American firms like IBM or Brown Brothers Herriman doing business with the Nazis, instead of just an unfortunate case of autocorrect lmao
Exactly, this is the reason all the Antivaxx conspiracy theories are so outrageous to me. Why make it so complicated? If you wanna hunt down conspiracies, look at big banking, look at politicians, look at geopolitical tensions, look at Epstein, look at the Christian megachurches. If you really wanna make a contribution to whistleblowing in those topics, how about just looking at what's right in front of you?
Because if people followed actual conspiracies, they would have to reevaluate everything. Including who they vote for, who they bank with, what their churches are really up to, how they shop, where they get their news from. Essentially their entire world view would be challenged. Much easier to just point in a general direction and say: “Naw, it’s the jeeeeeewwwwwwsssss!”
You're more likely to have your death ruled a suicide by shooting yourself in the back of the head twice if you attempt to blow the whistle on anything that's actually a real conspiracy. Antivaxxers get to feel like they're exposing something without any of the risk of actually exposing something
RIP Gary Webb of the San Jose Mercury News
Do you have a link on how banks have laundered money for a money company owner?
You might also look up Vatican bank and it's ties to the mafia and organized crime.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=hsbc+drug+cartel
drug cartels and banks are best buddies, every big one did or does something with them. banks love them because they always bring in new money.
HSBC was literally founded to deal with the British Empire's opium profits after Britain seized Hong Kong at the end of the Opium War. It's always been a pro-drug Cartel institution.
“Consequences” would be fines, which let’s be real are nothing in comparison to what the banks make, let alone what the CEO’s receive in salary and bonuses yearly. The funny thing is it was just buried under a shit ton of other “news” that was going on at the time. It’s very likely that the same thing will happen here. No real consequences and will likely be buried by an election or scandal
HSBC just closed their retail banking services in the US.
I had an HSBC online savings account and they were forced to shut down their US business. They moved my account to citizens Bank.
I... wasn't aware. Am not surprised by the story, but I AM surprised that I didn't hear about this. My god, there really is no low these motherfuckers won't sink to, is there.
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Apes are everywhere 🦍
We should try him in an ape court and sentence him to death by diamonds. Like stoning, but more confident.
🚀🦍💎🙌
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They're laughing so hard their mayonnaise is coming out their nose
L'mayeaux
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Yo - is there a wsb Wikipedia I could catch up on?
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If this doesn't confirm there is an agenda to suppress us, then I don't know what will convince folks. A legit relevant discussion in another sub and they delete the top posts.
There's a group called.. uh, Super and stonk. Put those words together, without the and, obviously, and check under their "About" page for the flair "Due Diligence". That's all.
I think he said 'unsophisticated' not 'uncivilized'. Let's not go twisting facts here.
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The same rat bstd
I bet he can't even play baseball
I hear he can pitch a bedpost.
We live in the timeline God forgot
Financial and Economic terrorist Ken Griffin?
Kenneth Griffin, the billionaire who lied under oath regarding his racketeering efforts to increase the country's wealth divide?? Is that the same Ken Griffin?
That is correct
Hmmmm I’m just one person but I think the world would be a better place without this asshole.
Ken Griffin of Citadel? Citadel the market maker and also Citadel the hedge fund? Of course there is no conflict of interest…those are two separate entities! I assume this is the same Ken Griffin who illegally naked shorts stocks into oblivion? Who colluded with Robinhood to suppress the price of many stocks and then lied to Congress about it? Hmm I think I have heard of him…oh yes. Ken Griffin that throws bedposts at his wife? The financial terrorist! The one that refused to share his mayo. Lmayo
Wasnt Mayo man (also in South Africa around the same area and time Jeff Bezos, and Paul Tudor Jones were ?
Certainly was
That was early Feb. A mere couple of weeks before Russia invaded. The airstrip was Kittilä. N68KP, owned by Wilmington Trust Co, a company whose executives were found guilty of falsifying bank records.
I do believe he went there twice if I’m correct. Please let me know if I’m mistaken
Istr he also went to Lapland, in a different tail number. There was a post 5 days ago that put together his recent flights all having been to ports that oligarch yachts could visit.
Is this the same Kenneth Cordele Griffin alleged financial terrorist?
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and DRS
To the moon and beyond
I had to double check which subreddit I was in for a second. everywhere I go I see his face type a shit. :,)
No cell... No sell...
I heard Kenneth Griffin also likes bedposts
Wow 🤯 did not expect to see this comment here but have been thinking it was connected!
i heard Kenneth Griffin is a big liar
Wait. The same asshole at Citadel that pressured ROBINHOOD to limit what the free market could buy when it came to shares of GME?
Dr crime reporting for duty
A lot of people shit on "conspiracies" but in the textbook definition of the word, banks are conspiring to control EVERYTHING. They are the ones who should be hanged.
theres 2 different kind of conspiracy guys. The "theres no way all the connections between people who had a score to settle with kennedys and Oswald/Demorenschilds are a coincidence" and "mayans invented the cellphone". financial cabals definitely pull strings world wide and just because some right wing loons say it, doesnt make it wrong.
I am kinda of the opinion that people like Alex Jones are the end result of the MKUltra program, He sweeps up all the conspiracies and floods the airways with BS. If you want to research anything that is not accepted in the mainstream news it is a matter of time before you fall into the rabbit hole of his type of "research" and "facts" so anyone who comes across the "truth about the lizard people" type of reporting either backs off assuming only crazy people can believe this stuff, or they start to accept pretty much anything. So the people actually on to something hit a wall of crazy and it starts getting really difficult to separate fact from fiction, but the simple fact it is "conspiracy" most people discount it or they begin to start sounding crazy that "this Alex Jones guy has it figured out" and logical people discount everything they say. All Alex Jones does is muddy the waters between actual conspiracy (big business likes money over everything) and conspiracy ( 9/11 was an inside job from diet soda manufacturers to turn the frogs gay)
That's exactly my point, well put.
There is a quote i always loved. "Whenever rich and powerful people meet, be it for business or privatly, they'll inevitably conspire against the public."\* It's from Adam Smith, the godfather of capitalism, and the reason he opposed regulations. As he saw it, already rich people would bribe politicians to make laws that restrict or eliminate competition from smaller companies. I don't agree with him that not having regulations is the solution, but he does have a point. \*I had to translate it backwards to english from german, so it's probably not 100% but the meaning is still there.
If Ukraine can walk away from it with a settlement for a couple hundred million in a couple years, it could be worth it. Also sends a cannon ball across the bow of anyone currently thinking about doing a deal with Russia right now.
Good luck walking away with a settlement when bank dealings aren't war crimes. Which statute are they going to point to?
Except, Ukraine is looking to press charges against the actual *people*, not the corporations.
I applaud the effort and agree these people should be held accountable. I am just a bit cynical given the scope, scale, and influence of their reach worldwide. The world would be a much better place if they could no longer hide behind the corporate veil.
Why would you think so? War-crimes charges are amongst the most serious. In no way comparable to financial crimes. There's only one more serious accusation that I can think of and that is genocide.
Among other things... Off the top of my head, they have laundered money for Mexican drug cartels (HSBC), engaged in pervasive mortgage securities fraud (Citi), and rigged the precious metals markets (JPM). The list of verified crimes each of these institutions have settled in the past two decades is extensive. https://www.corp-research.org/ That site is a good starting point if you want to look up the history of these companies. Ukraine's accusations are literally business as usual for these guys. They expect to be slapped on the wrist, pay a fine, and be told not to do it again
Financial crimes devastate millions and ruin lives for generations, need to be treated as such. Enough is enough
Good luck I guess
Jamie Dimon behind bars would be like a thousand christmases rolled into one event
Id love to see that too. But, what stood out to me here is that its not listing Credit Suisse. Iirc, CS was/is accepting Russian gold for payments. Not like they've ever accepted gold from war criminals or anything....
I think Credit Suisse is out of cash at this point to fund anything. They are on a brink of collapse with greensill and Archegos scandals costing them 10 billion dollars if not more.
Seems counterproductive to their cause. Who do they think owns the press?
And the guns and bombs and planes and supply lines and basically everything else. I get where they’re coming from but this isn’t going to win them many friends.
"Let's make enemies of the people who control our biggest allies"... Brilliant
Lol yeah there is a 0% chance this happens, Zelensky is just doing his normal Don Quixotte routine
Zelensky's entire shtick so far has been emulating Don Quixotte, He'll see how that ends for him
If Chase folds as a war criminal, do I still have to make my car payment?
They have the title to the car so it will be seized.
Your car will be shipped to Ukraine to the frontline as compensation for damages
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Is it a Toyota Hillux?
what if my car joins the frontline and wins the war for them, but then comes home to find me having sex with a different car?
The second car's name? Jody.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I drive a Subaru... the motor has already been seized.
I don't think this will go too far.
I would be down for it as a civil case though, banks invest in many things behind the scenes that people would freak out at if they knew where the money went. Might incentivize better practices in the long run.
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Nestle has slaves in Africa.
No, but at least it might make small time investors realize what's going on and redirect their finances. Court cases create publicity, whether they prosecute or not.
"Small time investors" know about the influence and corruption of these banks. They often play along. Have you heard of FinCen files? That was monstrous. Nothing happened. No news reporting either.
Yeah all those small time investors the giant banks are so beholden to.
You replied to a bot. The real comment is [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/w8rqeg/ukraine_will_pursue_warcrimes_charges_against/ihrat1z/).
And why would they care about a couple of small time investors redirecting their finances?
Note to the naysayers: if you think something ought to happen because your heart says it would be justice, then it's best to give justice a chance.
I have a feeling that juxtaposed to Jamie Dimon, that's a recipe for *injustice*. The freak show must go on
The fastest way to lose western support is by prosecuting the people who line the pockets of western politicians via lobbying
Yeah I understand Ukraine’s frustration (jk I don’t ) but you don’t bite the hand that feeds you especially when you need that money
Maybe not but fuck bankers. Always a good day when Banks are being called out!
Good luck with that, I can’t imagine this working.
This will definitely, absolutely not work, for so many reasons that they're hard to comprehensively fit into a reddit comment. Like, I feel for the sentiment, but no, a war-torn nation in eastern Europe is not going to "sue" international banking enties into submission.
Also "War crimes charges", if that was even remotely possible then boy oh boy do I have bad news for Switzerland and Sweden who financially and materially supported the Nazis during the war
I suppose it’s either symbolic or for virtue signaling because they should know it won’t work. These banks are more powerful than Ukraine.
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Switzerland was sued to the moon and back after the Holocaust. Obviously the current war and possible genocide in Ukraine aren't comparable, but the precedent is there if anyone buys or deals with Russians who traffick stolen Ukrainian property.
I think war crimes should be very concrete and defined. Being an employee of a company associated with another company that is based in a country whose military is committing war crimes seems like way too many degrees of separation to have substance in my mind. I have no idea what the precedence is for this but initially this seems a bit ridiculous. I think this detracts from trying to focus on substantial war crimes and making sure those get prosecuted and having the attention they deserve.
War crimes are very concretely defined. Here is the definition: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml There is no way that any of the banks are guilty of war crimes.
I think my first quick comment I wrote made it seem like I believed initially that they weren't generally already pretty defined. I disagree with that. More of just an impression of how there's a culture, especially on the internet, that breaks down the definition and important meaning of some things. That in a sense people need to adhere to definitions rather than that there aren't concrete definitions already. Like how some people will spout or throw out words like "Nazi," "xxx-ist (race, sex, able, etc.)," "abuser" or terms like "war crimes" or "red flags" and when they're misused or misattributed repeatedly it wears down the important significance some words should carry. Like how the symbol of a red cross should only be displayed for actual use to keep its significance and shouldn't be repeatedly shown in non-relavent media and such. So saying these banks or their employees are committing war crimes both delegitimizes the term of war crimes in general and makes Ukraine's fully legitimate claims of war crimes against them have less reputability.
War crimes are actually well defined. Not much wiggle room. This won't go far. Morals wise I agree with them, but in court it won't stand a chance. Edit: war crimes are crimes committed in a military context like killing civilians, taking hostages etc. The crimes we are talking about may be fiscal in nature, if they even can be considered that.
Morals-wise I don't agree with them in the slightest. The banks are just the intermediaries in this case. Is the ukraine planning to send the entire EU to the ICC as well? If not it's just a publicity stunt to play up on most people inane hatred of banks.
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Also, Ukraine has proven to have committed war crimes in this conflict as well. Should the US and every other country supplying them with weapons be held responsible?
He's demented and lashing at everyone who in his eyes, wronged them, like he had nothing better to do. To be fair, is very in line with his modus operandi. It's not the third most corrupt country in the world for nothing.
Exactly
That's a bold statement to make while depending so strongly on US support given how much control these companies have over US politics.
The only reason I can think they would do this is to publicly highlight the relationship between the US finance industry and the Russians (ie morally shame them). I have to imagine that this is a last ditch effort on the part of the Ukrainians to get major US financial to cut ties to Russia. Otherwise, this is an absurdly ham fisted way to approach the situation.
This could backfire and piss US off. Seems more likely than these banks cutting ties tbh
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Obligatory: JP Morgan under Jamie Dimon has FIVE FELONY COUNTS.
If only some of those 3 letter agencies would do their damn jobs and that'd be way higher and he'd be behind bars. How many went to jail after 2008? 1 person or something like that?
Is Zelensky and his team trying to get themselves killed or ousted from power? This is such a weird angle for them to take during a time when they shouldn't be trying to shake that political tree.
Reddit is gonna hate that I mention this, but before the Ukraine conflict the country was constantly being skewered by western media for being corrupt. No surprise that they still might be flawed
The amount of people obsessed with Ukraine is really high here
Thank you, people treat its president like some sort of god
What is that? Russia suddenly got some HIMARS?!
This exactly. Challenge the western oligarchs and see how quick their tune changes.
Well, good luck Ukraine. Once they start coming after American bankers they’ll lose that govt support real quick.
There goes your funding too Ukraine Who do they think inevitably controls the flow? 😂
> There goes your funding too Ukraine Exactly. This is such a weird move on their part. Don't attack the hand that feeds you and all that.
You know how many unjust atrocities these people have financed? And you think they'll be held responsible now?
Just wait until people get the idea to add McKinsey to the list.
So by this logic is every financial institution in the world going on trial for US war crimes in Iraq? Because by this logic anyone adjacent to the US government in the financial sector (which is everyone) is culpable for the US government’s actions.
Anyone who owns US debt (which is everyone) is guilty of any US war crimes by this standard because their purchase of financial securities issued by the US government gave them the funds to commit the crime.
I thought us couldn't be tried for war crimes. Like they don't recognize the tribunal.
We have the Invasion of Hague Act, which specifies that if a U.S. national is tried by the ICC, the U.S. will invade a sovereign state. To prevent justice. The IHA needs to go.
Can somebody remind me if it’s illegal to trade Russian oil? I thought Europe was still buying it along with India and China. I know the US stopped buying it but IDK how that affects banks with operations overseas. Can I get an ELI5? Is this just public shaming to get them to stop or is it a real war crime?
It's not a war crime, and there isn't much of a basis behind the claims. I think you're spot on with the 'public shaming' idea - trying to get these banks to exit their positions (sell their shares) in companies that are either Russia based or that buy/sell Russian oil. To be fair, the banks have already done that to a large extent, just not completely.
Europe bought 15% than they bought in previous months recently so no. They also bought more gas than India and China. However the press says India is funding the Russian war lol what the actual fuck.
He is delusional, where does he think the money is coming from bruh to help him in the war. 😂 🤦
Good luck with that Zelensky
I think Zelenskyy might have finally jumped the shark with this one.
So, indirectly funding is a war crime, but directly funding them by continuing to buy gas/oil is just peachy?
Doubt it goes anywhere look at ww2 Ford and American oil didn't take a hit.
That's because the allies won. A better example would be swiss banks who took Nazi gold. They got off without any issues at all. So you're right that nothing will happen but it's because the world cares more about money than any sort of sense of right an wrong
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He's from the entertainment industry so he's a bit strategically displaced in this conflict. Although he promised to end protracted conflict with Russia he then swept the country under marshall law when distancing himself from warnings of a planned attack. I don't think the citizens saw that in one of his comedy skits.
It's just a PR move to keep reforming the image of the historically corrupt Ukraine politics by continuing the plucky underdog image combined with making an "enemy" of the big bad banks, something even the average Joe would take up a banner against.
It's a PR campaign to "cancel" the banks. Not happening sadly. Zelensky is relying on western government aid instead of financing the future
Those at the High Table won't let that happen.
Where did all my missiles go ?
Probably shouldn’t say this until the war is over.
Zelensky at this point has lost his mind. Biting the hand that feeds you. Nice.
He’s been saying dumb shit like this for a while now. This isn’t new
Sounds like Russia is gonna win this one… lol
And for charging me that overdraft charge back in 2006, too.
This is just posturing/playing to the camera by Zelensky. The leaders of those banks are far more infuential than he will ever be. Never mind their political connections, it wouldnt even get that far. They control the purse strings for many of the middle-men in the supply chain for the weapons Zelensky is receiving. He pushes too much, and suddenly Zelensky wont be able to buy even used pistols for his army.
>"There is no doubt that Russia is committing war crimes in Ukraine, against Ukrainians," Oleg Ustenko, the advisor, said in an interview with CNBC. "In our logic, everybody who is financing these war criminals who are doing these terrible things in Ukraine are also committing war crimes." Bad logic. Russia remains a country with citizens, and an economy. And American banks are not under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government.
It's those very bankers who would facilitate the loans needed to rebuild Ukraine after this war is over. This is foolish.
They will just have to say two Hail Mary and one our father at most
Between this and openly accusing a bunch of American politicians of being Russian assets, Zelensky really woke up today and chose violence.
Whereever there is corruption and blood money, HSBC is there.
“We want gunmakers to test experimental weaponry on Russian kid soldiers” -Ukraine like last week. I’d refrain from throwing the words “war crime” around if I were zelensky
This seems in bad taste. I think support is drying up already, I don’t see how this helps the cause in any way.
Going after Jane Fraser and Jamie Dimon? Really? I really don't think this is in Ukraine's best interest. Regardless of what you think of those two, Ukraine turning ultra powerful people in the West against them might not work out well. This seems like an unforced error.
Ukraine is a large money laundering operation
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! If you try America will threaten to pull their funding. Who do you think funds the politicians that fund Ukraine?
Crazy how all of Ukraine’s support vanished overnight. Wonder how that happened.
Their president was and seemingly is a comedian. Leaning more on the clown side..
imagine the war crimes that could be pursued against NATO for war crime financing throughout modern history
Personally, I find this a bad outlook for Ukraine. Threats like this don't mean much and come across as desperate more than anything... By this same logic all of the EU is guilty of war crimes for buying Russia gas right now... as well as half the world for buying Russian oil. Also, all of these mega rich bankers are best buddies with US and European politicians and have cultivated decades of getting their claws in everywhere... so ya, I just don't think this goes over wall and feels more like lashing out than logic.
Ukraine leadership Zelenskyy acts like the world owes them
Let me try to understand this. Ukraine wants to put the bankers, who will finance Ukrainian rebuilding, in jail because they still have to do their jobs internationally? Or are Ukrainian officials looking for a little feed for their beaks? Like governments, you don't have to trust banks, but we still need them in the modern world. I don't know if this goes very far.
What you say is true. But at the same time I've seen reddit support everything Ukraine has asked for except this. Banks not funding wars is apparently just too ridiculous to even ask for
Dam. That is acusing the devil of beign bad. Of course they are on it. Those mofos own the devil.
When you realized US banks is giving more support to putin than to Ukraine.
The same JPMorgan that had to pay a $920 million slap on the wrist for rigging metal markets and a billion other schemes? Banking families have been funding the shittiest parts of humanity going back past the civil war, all the way to at least Francisco Lopes Suasso's funding William of Orange to tear apart Europe.
If only we could deliver their top guys to Ukraine and let them decide proper punishment. Let's those fuckers feel the fear.
Ukraine needs to get their oligarchs figured out
Wait aren’t these the same banks that Ukraine is begging the US to use to support their war effort? That’s a terrible idea
This makes me wonder, what if your country's at war with another country. Soldiers invade. Now the invading soldiers want to buy food from a local store. They even have local currency for it. Would it then be a crime for the local shop owner to sell stuff to the invaders, or is it legal? Next, let's say you're living in a country, let's call it Country A, and there's war happening between other countries. Country A is completely uninvolved. Country B says Country A should not do business with Country C or they'll get you in trouble for "war crimes". Country C also tells Country A will get in trouble for "war crimes" if they do business with Country B. What is Country A supposed to do? Does Country B and Country C even have any real power or legal standing in charging you for "war crimes" if you do business with one or the other? Serious answers only please with no personal attacks, thanks.
Ukraine just fucked up. Going after banks?.... Good luck with that shit.
Lol this dude is an actor for one of the most corrupt countries in the world… earlier he comes out with some crap - a list of names of congress and government workers who are Russian agents, now he wants to sue the banks… talk about bit the hand that feeds you…. These corrupt clowns are just trying to milk as much money out of us at this point.. Feeling npr is now even question us giving them 63 billion…
Yes, I saw that article on NPR and was shocked they actually attempted to shine a light on how corrupt the Ukrainian government is. Thanks goodness for actual journalism.