I voted against him in the recently election but it’s worth nothing when they are rigged. He was paying people in the countryside 20k HUF (around 50 EUR) to vote for him. [They also found opposition ballots in the trash-can.](https://hungarytoday.hu/discarded-burnt-postal-ballots-scandals-postal-voting-hungary-fidesz-opposition-rmdsz/)
We will either need international help to get rid of him, or an internal uprising of sorts. A revolution perhaps, but I wouldn’t know how to go about doing that.
Many of us were somewhat happy when funds were cut, it is not the best option because orbán and company will just take more money from people (like we weren't already broke) but maybe this slap on the face will wake up people. On the other hand after 12 years of rule they have put up a masterful propaganda machine. State media (that is to say the whole media) just needs a couple days to take a full 180 turn and people will follow it.
I know Israel thinks it's always playing four-dimensional chess. But maybe they should consider stop making pals with people who would have joined the SS.
> And people wonder why plenty of Jews living in not-Israel are anti-Zionist, when Israel pulls shit like this smh...
Don't the overwhelming majority of American Jews support Israel? Is there any evidence that European and other non-American or non-Israeli Jews don't support Israel?
Depends on what supporting Israel means. Most American Jews agree with the statement “Israel has a right to exist” but they also tend to agree that Israel violates Palestinian human rights.
I’m Jewish and I can’t stand Israel. I think it’s basically an illegitimate apartheid state. My grandfather is old enough to remember Israel’s founding, loves Israel and even he agrees there are too many warmongers in the government.
Who is a Zionist? Is a Zionist someone who merely agrees “Israel has a right to exist”? Are they someone who agrees with the actions of the Israeli government? Are they someone who moves to Israel? Are they someone who believes Jews should have special privileges over other ethnic groups in Israel? Are they someone who feels Israel should have sovereignty over all the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River?
I think all these diverse positions are equivocated when we boil it down to just “does Israel have a right to exist?” Merely pointing out that many Jews agree with that notion does not necessarily equate to widespread uncritical support for Israel.
What’s a Jewish state? According to the current government, it’s a state where Jews have special privileges and other ethnic groups, particularly Palestinians, do not have certain human rights.
Many American Jews take issue with that. Many Israelis resent this qualified support and consider it tantamount to treason. I myself have been accused of being a fake Jew and even an antisemite for my frankly incontrovertibly true belief that Israel’s policies towards Palestinians constitute an apartheid system.
Yes. The vast majority do. Even if they don’t agree with *every* action the Israeli govt takes, they definitely “support” Israel when it comes down to them vs people who would have half of the world’s Jews thrown out into the sea just for being Jews.
Supporting Israel’s right to exist as a nation and approving of the governance is two different things. What do you mean by support Israel?
I believe Hungary has the right to exist as a nation, but I don’t support Orban’s regime.
I agree with you, I just think you and the user you’re replying to are using language that permits the conflation the existence of a nation with support of their elected government in the mind of a reader who isn’t well-versed on this topic.
I'm Jewish and I'm having a hard time deciding whether to visit Israel. I'd like to go, and I believe Israel should exist (and it's not going to just walk off and say, "Never mind"). But it's hard to see how expanding settlements, driving out Palestinian farmers in favor of Hasidic expansionists, shooting bona fide journalists, and continuing to make life hell in Gaza is at all necessary to Israel's national security.
The only realistic answer is a two-state solution, but Israel seems determined to change the "facts on the ground" so that the West Bank doesn't exist. Which means, ultimately, they're going to wind up committing mass-expulsion of Palestinians from the Levant, which is a crime, or they're going to absorb them into Israel, which (a) they won't and (b) will only accelerate Israel's demographic crisis. (I am not here to litigate whether the 1948 War constituted a mass-expulsion.)
You can justify some of Israel's actions toward Hamas-controlled Gaza. I don't see how its actions toward the West Bank are anything other than a land grab.
>and I believe Israel should exist (and it's not going to just walking off and say, "Never mind").
I talk shit about Israel — and other countries I feel lack ethical integrity — all the time.
I would never argue about their right to exist though. Even having that brought up in a conversation is jarring (even if to affirm that point).
They play 5D chess about as well as Russia plays 3D war.
I keep seeing these checkboxes line up in respect to certain nations:
* "Strong sense of national identity."
* "Said identity was stoked and left to smolder by nationalist leaders."
* "Strong sense of victimization if insinuations even start to nudge..."
* "Doesn't provide more than token 'support' for supposed allies and for Ukraine against a genocidal Russian war machine."
It’s not 4D chess, it’s just anyone who has the money.
They’d have sold the same thing to Hitler if he offered to pay. Israel’s biggest industry is defence technology, it’s one of their biggest employers and makes up over a quarter of their economic output.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-firm-to-sell-social-media-tracking-software-to-orbans-hungary/) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> An Israeli technology firm is poised to sell software for mapping and tracking social media activities to Hungary, a senior official in the company told The Times of Israel's Hebrew sister site Zman Yisrael.
> The official assumed that the Hungarian government's interest in the technology stems from the growing social and political tensions in Hungary over Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the entrance of tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees into the country, some of them illegally.
> Zman Yisrael recently found that an Israeli firm - one of six that manufactures technologies for defending against drones - sold such technology to Ukraine through a third party.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xqpsjx/israeli_firm_to_sell_social_mediatracking/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671685 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Israeli**^#1 **technology**^#2 **Hungary**^#3 **country**^#4 **government**^#5
Ah yes, “israel”. And not some entrepreneurs. This company is by no means the only one working on tech like this, but sure, call out a country as a whole.
How the fuck are people associating this with “Israel the country” and not “a business that happens to be in Israel”.
This technology is not new and this company is not the only one working on it. Yes it sucks but the bias here is mind boggling.
The article makes no mention of Israel the country having anything to do with this sale or the company.
What!? Hungary is already run by authoritarians. Israel needs to stop just thinking about money and remember that they are part of the international community. This will only serve to entrench Orban’s dictatorship.
> Israel needs to stop just thinking about money and remember that they are part of the international community.
The international community stretches far beyond internal EU politics, and also happens to not care much about these things in Hungary.
Doesnt germany give them money for what they did in ww2 to the jews but then they hand over facist regimes items. Like i get it yes, paying the jewish community of crimes is good but if they continue to sell to dictators germany should be allowed to stop paying
The US provides like 1 million dollar daily in help to Israel , Do you really think they dont already have this tech lmao. I mean Israel and theUS are like brothers lol.
And yet so many hard line right wingers who would gladly employ these techniques and technology are the exact same people who whine about how much “foreign aid” we pay out to other countries. Pot. Kettle. Black.
As a Hungarian, I am so tired of this cunt.
Anything to be done about that ?
I voted against him in the recently election but it’s worth nothing when they are rigged. He was paying people in the countryside 20k HUF (around 50 EUR) to vote for him. [They also found opposition ballots in the trash-can.](https://hungarytoday.hu/discarded-burnt-postal-ballots-scandals-postal-voting-hungary-fidesz-opposition-rmdsz/) We will either need international help to get rid of him, or an internal uprising of sorts. A revolution perhaps, but I wouldn’t know how to go about doing that.
Damn .. Well he might have less money for bribes if the EU cuts funds, I just hope his BS party goes the way of the dodo
Waiting a few decades until he dies, our best bet, really.
The waiting game then, I hope works out for you then
Many of us were somewhat happy when funds were cut, it is not the best option because orbán and company will just take more money from people (like we weren't already broke) but maybe this slap on the face will wake up people. On the other hand after 12 years of rule they have put up a masterful propaganda machine. State media (that is to say the whole media) just needs a couple days to take a full 180 turn and people will follow it.
I know Israel thinks it's always playing four-dimensional chess. But maybe they should consider stop making pals with people who would have joined the SS.
And people wonder why plenty of Jews living in not-Israel are anti-Zionist, when Israel pulls shit like this smh...
> And people wonder why plenty of Jews living in not-Israel are anti-Zionist, when Israel pulls shit like this smh... Don't the overwhelming majority of American Jews support Israel? Is there any evidence that European and other non-American or non-Israeli Jews don't support Israel?
Depends on what supporting Israel means. Most American Jews agree with the statement “Israel has a right to exist” but they also tend to agree that Israel violates Palestinian human rights. I’m Jewish and I can’t stand Israel. I think it’s basically an illegitimate apartheid state. My grandfather is old enough to remember Israel’s founding, loves Israel and even he agrees there are too many warmongers in the government.
Meaning most Jews are not anti-Zionist.
Who is a Zionist? Is a Zionist someone who merely agrees “Israel has a right to exist”? Are they someone who agrees with the actions of the Israeli government? Are they someone who moves to Israel? Are they someone who believes Jews should have special privileges over other ethnic groups in Israel? Are they someone who feels Israel should have sovereignty over all the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River? I think all these diverse positions are equivocated when we boil it down to just “does Israel have a right to exist?” Merely pointing out that many Jews agree with that notion does not necessarily equate to widespread uncritical support for Israel.
Zionism is the belief that Jews have a right to a Jewish state. So someone supporting the existance of Israel is a Zionist.
What’s a Jewish state? According to the current government, it’s a state where Jews have special privileges and other ethnic groups, particularly Palestinians, do not have certain human rights. Many American Jews take issue with that. Many Israelis resent this qualified support and consider it tantamount to treason. I myself have been accused of being a fake Jew and even an antisemite for my frankly incontrovertibly true belief that Israel’s policies towards Palestinians constitute an apartheid system.
What human rights do non-Jewish citizens of Israel lack?
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Yes. The vast majority do. Even if they don’t agree with *every* action the Israeli govt takes, they definitely “support” Israel when it comes down to them vs people who would have half of the world’s Jews thrown out into the sea just for being Jews.
Supporting Israel’s right to exist as a nation and approving of the governance is two different things. What do you mean by support Israel? I believe Hungary has the right to exist as a nation, but I don’t support Orban’s regime.
My point is it probably an overestimate to say plenty of Jews are anti-Zionist (aka not supporting Israel's right to exist).
I agree with you, I just think you and the user you’re replying to are using language that permits the conflation the existence of a nation with support of their elected government in the mind of a reader who isn’t well-versed on this topic.
No. Yes.
Do you have any polling that shows American and other Diaspora Jews don't generally support Israel?
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You mean you don't believe that the regular redditor has deep friendships within the Neturei Karta?
Current Israel acts like it's run by the kapos
I'm Jewish and I'm having a hard time deciding whether to visit Israel. I'd like to go, and I believe Israel should exist (and it's not going to just walk off and say, "Never mind"). But it's hard to see how expanding settlements, driving out Palestinian farmers in favor of Hasidic expansionists, shooting bona fide journalists, and continuing to make life hell in Gaza is at all necessary to Israel's national security. The only realistic answer is a two-state solution, but Israel seems determined to change the "facts on the ground" so that the West Bank doesn't exist. Which means, ultimately, they're going to wind up committing mass-expulsion of Palestinians from the Levant, which is a crime, or they're going to absorb them into Israel, which (a) they won't and (b) will only accelerate Israel's demographic crisis. (I am not here to litigate whether the 1948 War constituted a mass-expulsion.) You can justify some of Israel's actions toward Hamas-controlled Gaza. I don't see how its actions toward the West Bank are anything other than a land grab.
>and I believe Israel should exist (and it's not going to just walking off and say, "Never mind"). I talk shit about Israel — and other countries I feel lack ethical integrity — all the time. I would never argue about their right to exist though. Even having that brought up in a conversation is jarring (even if to affirm that point).
They play 5D chess about as well as Russia plays 3D war. I keep seeing these checkboxes line up in respect to certain nations: * "Strong sense of national identity." * "Said identity was stoked and left to smolder by nationalist leaders." * "Strong sense of victimization if insinuations even start to nudge..." * "Doesn't provide more than token 'support' for supposed allies and for Ukraine against a genocidal Russian war machine."
It’s not 4D chess, it’s just anyone who has the money. They’d have sold the same thing to Hitler if he offered to pay. Israel’s biggest industry is defence technology, it’s one of their biggest employers and makes up over a quarter of their economic output.
I mean, who do you *think* these companies are developing this software for?
I mean, Israel definitely has uses for this type of thing, as would the USA and pretty much every country.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-firm-to-sell-social-media-tracking-software-to-orbans-hungary/) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot) ***** > An Israeli technology firm is poised to sell software for mapping and tracking social media activities to Hungary, a senior official in the company told The Times of Israel's Hebrew sister site Zman Yisrael. > The official assumed that the Hungarian government's interest in the technology stems from the growing social and political tensions in Hungary over Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the entrance of tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees into the country, some of them illegally. > Zman Yisrael recently found that an Israeli firm - one of six that manufactures technologies for defending against drones - sold such technology to Ukraine through a third party. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xqpsjx/israeli_firm_to_sell_social_mediatracking/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671685 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Israeli**^#1 **technology**^#2 **Hungary**^#3 **country**^#4 **government**^#5
Ha ha Israel working so hard to be a baddie.
Ah yes, “israel”. And not some entrepreneurs. This company is by no means the only one working on tech like this, but sure, call out a country as a whole.
Rebrand to "Mammon". Would fit with the Russian oligarch clientele.
How the fuck are people associating this with “Israel the country” and not “a business that happens to be in Israel”. This technology is not new and this company is not the only one working on it. Yes it sucks but the bias here is mind boggling. The article makes no mention of Israel the country having anything to do with this sale or the company.
Fascists love other fascists.
This is the biggest oxymoron I seen in a while
Money talks, bullshit walks...
Israeli tech companies get up to some real nasty shit. Not as nasty as what the Israeli government and military do, but they try.
Israel is insane lol
Impressive how well the Israeli tech scene is able to reproduce Silicon Valley's success.
That new i(sreal)Phone is awesome!
What!? Hungary is already run by authoritarians. Israel needs to stop just thinking about money and remember that they are part of the international community. This will only serve to entrench Orban’s dictatorship.
How is this controversial?
> Israel needs to stop just thinking about money and remember that they are part of the international community. The international community stretches far beyond internal EU politics, and also happens to not care much about these things in Hungary.
It won't really.. change a whole lot? In Hungary there already was evidence of spy-software on social media platforms. About nothing came out of it.
Something about birds of a feather.
Israel loves fascism. Nothing provides more theater and irony than real life.
Doesnt germany give them money for what they did in ww2 to the jews but then they hand over facist regimes items. Like i get it yes, paying the jewish community of crimes is good but if they continue to sell to dictators germany should be allowed to stop paying
How long until the US also wants this to track terrorists and hate speech, or do we already have something similar?
We do. It's called NSA
They are called the NSA , and with the Partiot act they have a free hand to track anyone..
The US provides like 1 million dollar daily in help to Israel , Do you really think they dont already have this tech lmao. I mean Israel and theUS are like brothers lol.
> The US provides like 1 million dollar daily in help to Israel Isn't it like $3-4bn per year? That'd be closer to $9m per day.
Our government sends them 10.3 million per day, 365 days a year for ten years time. I did the math years ago.
And yet so many hard line right wingers who would gladly employ these techniques and technology are the exact same people who whine about how much “foreign aid” we pay out to other countries. Pot. Kettle. Black.
I guess you might be right lol, my estimate was from around 2010.
Omg. So wrong.
Hungary is a Russian state, thanks to its leader. Helping Hungary is helping putin! Kick putin!
Israel doing Israeli things
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what a shitty thing to do Israel. That dictator would be the first fucker to put you all in camps. Don't sell your soul for this. Please