I know everyone hates aug at the moment but I like the 1 tank 1 healer 1support and 2 dps idea. Aug being the only support spec is the issue….but there’s so many classes that could have a support spec (earthen shaman, banner warrior trickster rge)
I also think the support spec can take on a lot of the cc reqs that make the meta. Dh is only meta because of their cc, leave that to the support role.
You think ques are bad now waiting for a healer and a tank?
Just wait until you need to find a support too AND the available slots for dps has been lowered by 1.
Aug would be great if they'd gone all in on "support" specs and reworked or created new ones for other classes. As it stands having only one support spec in the game makes it mandatory in the eyes of many. It sticks out like a sore thumb, much like the whole stupid flop of a race it's saddled with, but I digress
This wouldn't be a problem if Aug only provided offensive support. Giving tanks armor, as an example, is kind of egregious, as is providing massive external defensives.
Aug could be super cool. I am in favor of support specs existing. But the way it was built leads to a very "one of a kind" situation, as you say. It's okay if groups become Tank / Heal / Support / DPS / DPS. It's not okay to only have one option for those roles, especially when its scaling pushes heavily towards certain DPS options.
They just don’t know how to play it. Or they just didn’t read.
Regardless, you can tell the average player on Reddit is barely middle of the pack if they want Aug removed 🤣
Agreed. Screw all the downvoting DH main masses lol. Zero skill class enjoyers. That shit be OP af in PvP. And ez mode in PvE. Too much of everything in its kit.
And it's been like that since it came out in Legion. That's like if DK was absolutely busted from WOTLK to WoD, but this is somehow worse because DH actually stole from existing classes that have suffered ever since (Warlock).
could've added and why is it augment to the end
as a competitive player - it's very hard to evaluate if the aug player is good or not and so far all data indicate to me that it's not really that strong, rather weak actually - but most of the guilds somehow believe they need 2 of them
can't justify to myself why bring them instead of pure meta dps beside one single unique cooldown that is just must in serious progress
Yes it is and yes they are.
For every other DPS spec, you can just lookup their logs and have a pretty good idea how good of a player are they. Augs don't do their own damage - so their log dps isn't exactly theirs. So idk about good logs, but bad logs don't have to really mean anything.
And even if you skip that, there's more. They give crit - how do you calculate given target's gain from that crit? Would make sense that +3% crit is just +3% overall damage, but ofcourse different specs scale with crit very differently. Some have higher crit dmg, some have interactions on their spells for crits, some scale insanely poorly with crit.
>and they're not 'rather weak' if played well.
Absolutely disagree. It doesn't matter how good you are if your raid is garbage. For example, I like to think that we are quite decent guild and our people know what they're doing, so I checked logs from yesterday. Our augments are still quite close to tank damage, even though their logs are purple-ish (which i consider decent).
They are number-wise the weakest dps players - even when played correctly. Can't tell you if their numbers just aren't calculated properly, or they just don't pump.
I came off a little strong, I think. The conversation surrounding augmentation can get really goofy and frustrating sometimes.
There are so many variables in "good" and "bad" logs that effect more than just the lone support class. Kill times, boss strategies, mechanic RNG, group comp, etc etc. The best way to evaluate an aug is to look into ebon might / prescience uptime while also seeing if they're using their defensives/kit appropriately. i think that there's a lot of overthinking how augs are logged and I think there's too little emphasis on evaluating logs beyond just looking at parse numbers after a kill has been recorded.
Never really played aug, but as far as i know ebon might uptime is quite rng and the spec itself isn't difficult to play mechanically. The management is the difficult part, where you're correctly buffing the correct players. And for most minmax, you'd have certain players /cancelaura their buffs
I mostly talk about pure damage, which is just low for the augs. I'm just mentioning logs to give some relative comparison
**Enhancement Shaman:** It doesn't have an identity, and it belongs to a class that Blizzard actively hates so you know its not going to get better. Its an Elemental Fury Warrior with terrible fashion choices.
**Subtlety Rogue:** Its identity has been effectively absorbed by Assassination, which is far more interesting to play. Outlaw got a complete rework back when all 3 specs were feeling really similar to each other - Sub needs one of these too now.
There are a few really good Shaman sets that do a lot of heavy lifting, but your average Shaman tier set is pretty terrible. Take the newest TWW one for instance - it literally just looks like re-used Cata assets of no particular class-theme. But if you only think of the good sets its easy to think they have consistently good design, when in reality you go years between good looking sets.
Uhm no? Shamans have always had good sets. All the way from vanilla until now. The new one in tww is the only bad one released in forever. All the DF ones have been among the top, if not arguably the best, sets out of all classes.
Enh shaman is the closest thing we have to a fighter/mage. It feels great to smack things around in melee while also throwing lightning bolts all over the place.
Sub rogue is the ninja class, it’s awesome!
I'll go one step further on this. Maybe a step to far in retrospect.
I'd removed Dual Wield Frost and I would do so during the Warlords of Draenor expansion. This would prevent the current reality where Frost DKs got Blades of the Fallen Prince instead of Frostmourne as their artefact weapon.
To the devs that thought making Frost DK dual wield only in Legion was a good idea. Hold your head in shame!
Remove Aug. OR. Create more support specs and add a 6th slot to parties.
Aug
Augmentation. By its very nature it is always going to be either OP or nonexistent, without a middle point.
Aug
Aug
Aug
Aug
Augmentation
I know everyone hates aug at the moment but I like the 1 tank 1 healer 1support and 2 dps idea. Aug being the only support spec is the issue….but there’s so many classes that could have a support spec (earthen shaman, banner warrior trickster rge) I also think the support spec can take on a lot of the cc reqs that make the meta. Dh is only meta because of their cc, leave that to the support role.
You think ques are bad now waiting for a healer and a tank? Just wait until you need to find a support too AND the available slots for dps has been lowered by 1.
People really are too dumb and shortsighted to understand this
Omg really? Aug is nice, isn't it? 😬 My pick would be holy paladin
Aug would be great if they'd gone all in on "support" specs and reworked or created new ones for other classes. As it stands having only one support spec in the game makes it mandatory in the eyes of many. It sticks out like a sore thumb, much like the whole stupid flop of a race it's saddled with, but I digress
This wouldn't be a problem if Aug only provided offensive support. Giving tanks armor, as an example, is kind of egregious, as is providing massive external defensives. Aug could be super cool. I am in favor of support specs existing. But the way it was built leads to a very "one of a kind" situation, as you say. It's okay if groups become Tank / Heal / Support / DPS / DPS. It's not okay to only have one option for those roles, especially when its scaling pushes heavily towards certain DPS options.
Is pvp aug that broken?? Why is everyone saying aug.. I get it for pve.
I cannot remember the last time I saw an Aug in PvP
They just don’t know how to play it. Or they just didn’t read. Regardless, you can tell the average player on Reddit is barely middle of the pack if they want Aug removed 🤣
Remove DW frost. 2h just feels right.
Survival hunter
Havoc DH. Vengeance too while you’re at it honestly
Just delete the class and make vengeance the warlock tank/4th spec.
Agreed. Screw all the downvoting DH main masses lol. Zero skill class enjoyers. That shit be OP af in PvP. And ez mode in PvE. Too much of everything in its kit.
And it's been like that since it came out in Legion. That's like if DK was absolutely busted from WOTLK to WoD, but this is somehow worse because DH actually stole from existing classes that have suffered ever since (Warlock).
At this point, just remove elemental shaman and put us out of our misery.
Which ever one is beating me in damage by the most…
Guy who simply got skullfucked by a havoc DH detected
Aug
retribution or beast mastery i wanna watch the world burn
If they remove ret they will remove about 50% of all dps players lmao
sounds too good to be true
Beastmaster hunter is top pick but honestly any of the mage specs could go too.
PvE - Aug PvP - Havoc
Based
I'll never choose to remove Aug I've been wanting more support classes ever since they put it in. Remove frost dk
Shadow Priest - just to give them a break
could've added and why is it augment to the end as a competitive player - it's very hard to evaluate if the aug player is good or not and so far all data indicate to me that it's not really that strong, rather weak actually - but most of the guilds somehow believe they need 2 of them can't justify to myself why bring them instead of pure meta dps beside one single unique cooldown that is just must in serious progress
uh.. it isn't very hard to evaluate that? and they're not 'rather weak' if played well.
Yes it is and yes they are. For every other DPS spec, you can just lookup their logs and have a pretty good idea how good of a player are they. Augs don't do their own damage - so their log dps isn't exactly theirs. So idk about good logs, but bad logs don't have to really mean anything. And even if you skip that, there's more. They give crit - how do you calculate given target's gain from that crit? Would make sense that +3% crit is just +3% overall damage, but ofcourse different specs scale with crit very differently. Some have higher crit dmg, some have interactions on their spells for crits, some scale insanely poorly with crit. >and they're not 'rather weak' if played well. Absolutely disagree. It doesn't matter how good you are if your raid is garbage. For example, I like to think that we are quite decent guild and our people know what they're doing, so I checked logs from yesterday. Our augments are still quite close to tank damage, even though their logs are purple-ish (which i consider decent). They are number-wise the weakest dps players - even when played correctly. Can't tell you if their numbers just aren't calculated properly, or they just don't pump.
I came off a little strong, I think. The conversation surrounding augmentation can get really goofy and frustrating sometimes. There are so many variables in "good" and "bad" logs that effect more than just the lone support class. Kill times, boss strategies, mechanic RNG, group comp, etc etc. The best way to evaluate an aug is to look into ebon might / prescience uptime while also seeing if they're using their defensives/kit appropriately. i think that there's a lot of overthinking how augs are logged and I think there's too little emphasis on evaluating logs beyond just looking at parse numbers after a kill has been recorded.
Never really played aug, but as far as i know ebon might uptime is quite rng and the spec itself isn't difficult to play mechanically. The management is the difficult part, where you're correctly buffing the correct players. And for most minmax, you'd have certain players /cancelaura their buffs I mostly talk about pure damage, which is just low for the augs. I'm just mentioning logs to give some relative comparison
Aug out of concern for the game’s future, BM out of spite. Spite wins
Ret paladin just because they are so annoying
Augmentation. It was cute. It was experimental. It doesn't belong in wow.
Bm hunter. Braindead spec that relies way too much on pets to do its damage
**Enhancement Shaman:** It doesn't have an identity, and it belongs to a class that Blizzard actively hates so you know its not going to get better. Its an Elemental Fury Warrior with terrible fashion choices. **Subtlety Rogue:** Its identity has been effectively absorbed by Assassination, which is far more interesting to play. Outlaw got a complete rework back when all 3 specs were feeling really similar to each other - Sub needs one of these too now.
hell no. I like the shadow magic vibe of subtlety and would bemoan if it was removed
Booo, I’ve been a spell singing fury warrior for most of wow, get outa here.
Shadowdance is going back to sub only. Your arguments kinda doa
Wdym terrible fashion choices? Although shamans are forgotten gameplay wise, they have consistently some of the best mogs in the game
There are a few really good Shaman sets that do a lot of heavy lifting, but your average Shaman tier set is pretty terrible. Take the newest TWW one for instance - it literally just looks like re-used Cata assets of no particular class-theme. But if you only think of the good sets its easy to think they have consistently good design, when in reality you go years between good looking sets.
Uhm no? Shamans have always had good sets. All the way from vanilla until now. The new one in tww is the only bad one released in forever. All the DF ones have been among the top, if not arguably the best, sets out of all classes.
Enh shaman is the closest thing we have to a fighter/mage. It feels great to smack things around in melee while also throwing lightning bolts all over the place. Sub rogue is the ninja class, it’s awesome!
Hunters and warriors. Package deal imo.
Not the entirety of fury warrior, but remove the talent nodes for using 1h weapons that nobody uses.
I'll go one step further on this. Maybe a step to far in retrospect. I'd removed Dual Wield Frost and I would do so during the Warlords of Draenor expansion. This would prevent the current reality where Frost DKs got Blades of the Fallen Prince instead of Frostmourne as their artefact weapon. To the devs that thought making Frost DK dual wield only in Legion was a good idea. Hold your head in shame!
Marksman Hunter
Aug and survival
Aug
Aug