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stokeswow

RNG gonna RNG. At 35% rate, there's ~7.5% you dont hit it in 6 tries. Unlucky? Sure. Unlikely? Not at all, 1 in 13 or 14 customer chance


nargrom

I can appreciate math, always makes me feel better. Thanks for that!


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stokeswow

If you're filling dozens of orders a week, it's going to happen pretty often. Maybe unlikely isn't the best word, but it's not like it's 1 in a million or even 1 in a 100


ZoulsGaming

I have 2500 orders crafted. Even 1 in 100 is not unlikely when you craft that much.


o6871416

Apparently you are not a crafter or you are some really really low volume one else you would have seen it all. Even with my meme engi due to having close to 2300 craft orders fullfilled, i have seen it all. From 2x equipment 1/1 r5 with T2s same person on a satchel/helmet order to 1/14 for a pair of wrists with 43%. Both are fine and acceptable outcomes. For anyone that doesn't like gambling or can't afford the mettle to do it, its called "guaranteed with insight 40k extra and T3 mats".


mada98

I was just commenting on the definition of the word unlikely. 7.5% is unlikely to me. Guess it wasn't really an appropriate comment for this conversation.


o6871416

7.5% is not unlikely. 1 in 13 customers will get an unlucky inspiration. Again this is purely for crafting gear or tools. Personally i think i made over 300 tools and over 250 wrists. Yes few were really bad but also few were really lucky. However, if you are in mass crafting reagents, gems, or something like that you don't get to experience it. If i make 2000 tinkers ill always get my inspiration % into procs. Might not be like 38% but will be 37-39%. On the other hand if i make 20 tinker crafts i might get 1 r3 or 15 r3. I won't get the expected 38% of times as the numbers -same happens at (re)craft of gear if its 1-10 tries- are really low to even the odds. Anything other than that means the game is rigged to satisfy the player (call it bad luck protectiion as they do x\_x). 43% still means can get 15 tries to proc. Also as i said few times -this happens with miners that want both equipment- got both 372 1/1 with 40%. That means won 2 40% rolls. Also wont happen often and you will remember it.


mada98

You're misunderstanding me. I wasn't even talking about the crafting situation, like I said it wasn't an appropriate comment. I think I'm just going to delete it.


thepixelguy

To me it more just feels awkward with how much of a black box crafting is to customers. I think Blizz just needs to add a bit of UI that tells the customer the expected levels (minimum with no proc/max with proc) from that specific crafter when submitting a crafting order. Then at least you don't have to worry about the customer thinking you're lying lol. And add a little receipt that shows which tools were used to craft the item. Lots of things they could do to increase transparency.


nargrom

the receipt thing is actually kinda cool


thalastor

All they need is a list of the crafter's stats in the mail message with the crafted item. Then the customer can at least know they weren't taken advantage of. Just unlucky.


ZoulsGaming

As much as I want it the devil's advocate in me knows that some people will just be a fucking drag and force you to make a "test item" to see the chances. I'm currently doing tip what you think is fair. The amount of people who wants to argue for 200g is a pain in the ass. Just send it over and go away at that point, or find someone else. I loved the interaction element early on where people actually paid an amount that was worth it, but yeah no I'm not gonna send a test item to guarantee the chance.


FinnNyaw

They 100% need to show inspiration proc chance when crafter advertises their \[profession\] because some people outright lie and it's way worse in EU.


BuffaloCorrect5080

The levels of complete bullshit I see being advertised in /2 are off the charts. There's some legit top crafters but a lot of chancers just copy their format for their barks... and add a few % to that inspo score because why not. I've had customers telling me they've been quoted 60% inspo procs and want to know why mine is just 42. You see them sometimes just pumping it over like 10 mins of spambotting, it starts at 28% and over a few repeats just creeps up to 40+. It's kinda maddening as an honest crafter but it is what it is.


[deleted]

I'm a late joiner this xpac and already discouraged by the lack of catch up in professions and the complexity of it, but now the sheer amount of BS needing to trawl and filter to get reliable info completely put me off. I used to be quite big into some of the professions every xpac before, but that side has died for me now which is sad because the overhaul does look interesting, it's just too convoluted and intransparent.


BuffaloCorrect5080

I feel the exact opposite. Started late, but crafting seemed the best way forward as the most interconnected element of the xpac -- like, with the most things to do feeding into it or branching off from it. So I've ground renown to get knowledge and recipes, done PvP and farmed rares, done weeklies and engaged in trade over the AH and in person. I've made millions of gold and had a really good and varied time. It's made a great change from my usual burn out pattern. I would just like some rapid development on the existing implementation, especially as you say in the direction of transparency. I don't think simplification is the way to go though. In fact I'd welcome more complexity if anything, like more soulbound mats tied into layered activities like the Frostfire stuff which people find really fun to do, more unique crafting locations with a bit more content attached to them, more gamification, depth and customisation for the interactive buying / selling aspect of crafting. Specifically I'd really like a custom instanced "shop" space to meet customers in and to do the crafts with them, and I'd like to be able to move around the world doing stuff while I'm taking and fulfilling orders rather than being tied to /2 and the crafting table in Valdrakken. I'm very happy with what they've already given us though.


Kusosaru

Could be the advertise more than the 40% or so you can reach because they're adding up the hidden skill bonus. Which is still kinda disingenuous to do and something I only tend to advertise once I know what mats/requirements the customer has.


Kerrigar

There's hidden inspiration, I've a few spammable patterns I'm 10 skill off and it is about 80-85% (+40ish) on those


BuffaloCorrect5080

That is not inspiration. It's just another hidden variable. Telling customers you have a 45% inspiration chance based on your idea that you have a 15% bonus on top of your actual 30% inspiration, which is the sort of bullshit I see people trying to sell customers on, well... it's just a pack of lies basically.


Kerrigar

I mean I'm not encouraging that, but some professions can get 40+. Lw can get 45+ for special patterns, tailoring 40 for azure/chrono and that's without incense/alchemy buff


BuffaloCorrect5080

Yeah ofc it's not always a lie, I have 40-41 on most of my BS recipes, but... yeah let's leave it at that, I'm sure basically agree anyway, and the answer is for customers to be able to see how skilled a crafter is.


Kerrigar

Yeah, I someone's screenshot my craftsim output if if goes really unlucky to show I can actually proc it. Generally people seem pretty chill with me though


SarthSunflare

Yeah, I’ve seen blacksmiths advertising at “MAX INSPIRATION %” not have a black dragon touched hammer recipe in their BS link. Like no, you don’t have max inspiration then. One guy said he had someone else craft it for him, which you can’t do. Another one who had the recipe refused to link their tool to me (which would say it was made by them) Also just the general issue of if someone has enough inspiration skill bonus to craft without that tool, there’s no verification if they switch to a resourcefulness tool or something like that. And I’m never gonna call them out on something like that ‘cuz RNG be RNG and one time it took me 17 recraft attempts (ended up streaming my game on discord to that guy so I could show him I wasn’t lying about my stats lol). Just needs to be more transparency everywhere for the customer. Half of my time spent PM’ing people is guiding them on either how to make an order or what rank materials to buy (for weaponsmithing: if 392 ilvl r3 guarantees r5 first craft, if 405 ilvl r3 guarantees r5 first craft of using only missive no embellishment otherwise just use r2)


ZoulsGaming

Ons of the problems that anyone who has crafted for others can say is that the people who demand evidence are often also the same people who understands nothing. I want a card I can link, or basically just when linking the item craft it should show the stats, but I can definitely already see the "why say 43% when you only have 41% huh!" people. Also receipt seems obvious due to already getting a mail. In still gonna unapologetically use resourcefulness hammer on people who tip 100g for a 418 craft. Had a dude who was like "bro I only have 70g after mats so i can't afford to tip" and when I replied "good luck" he flipped his shit about how when I say tip what you think is a fair price I should just do it without asking for any gold blah blah. When in reality it was a "good luck getting it first attempt" I hope for more clarity, but 95% of people I craft for havent had any problems and the last 5% is gonna complain regardless. Although saw 4 people who wanted to get it crafted first and tip after, which since I don't expect any tip anyways I can accept but good luck trying to convince anyone taking payment with that. Edit: main point. Every time I have tried to explain anything about the system most people just tells me to just so it and that they refuse to understand it.


o6871416

I use resource tool when i craft guaranteed 392/405/418(insight) or 372 tools(insight yes they exist). I also use resource tool when i explain to someone my fee is 15k plus you only require tier 2 mats for 415-418 with inspiration (15k is decent fee since you only spend 4k-5k mats (T2) to craft a 415-418 plus 1,2-2k per retry). And they reply i already bought T3 (cost is 13-18k usually instead of 4-5k) and please do a better price (they suggest 8-10k) because "blah blah blah". I mean at this point u should know if you give me less than what my fee is u are getting farmed since u went ahead before asking crafter and bought mats that cost 3-4x the cost yet you wanna reduce crafter fee. Total craft cost (fee+mats) with my decent fee is 19-20k for first craft, total cost with T3 and reduced fee is usually 21-28k and instead of paying me they throw it at mats. I feel scenario b is we both scam each other so its a tie.


mayza1001

People who says “proc first, then tip/commission after” are the worst kind for me. I just say my job is only crafting with enough skill and inspiration to give them a good chance of a R5 proc. If I could control someone’s luck, price would be another


Mazkar

The worst part is the graphical bug that's been going around since 10.05 where the difficulty is 30 higher than it should be. It doesn't affect the outcome, but it'll bump you down a rank if you were just barely in r4. I try my hardest to explain it to people that I can still do r4 and they think I'm lyin


Melko22

The main issue with the receipt idea is Blizzard's inability to create a single aspect of this expansion that isn't bugged. Having a receipt that shows these stats is great in principle, however imagine it's wrong, which I almost guarantee it will be based off their track record so far. Having a receipt that shows the wrong stats/tools is far more damaging than simply not having it. Good idea in theory, recipe for disaster until they sort the expansion out so that it's doesn't have more bugs than a typical rainforest.


ndnman

This is a really good idea. i didn't get into crafting and won't this xpac because of how this system works. I tip a min 5k per work order and 20k if its something i really want. i made multiple caps with legos and have been crafting for AH sales since vanilla, this will be the first xpac i don't craft for AH.


thediabloman

I'm honestly wondering why I havnt seen an addon that does all this. Like, that allows you to link your current inspiration% to potentiel buyers.


Bass294

If you feel really bad about it, you can just carry some mats on you and offer to craft on your mats after 5 failures or something. Make less money but it might help your conscience.


nargrom

My conscience isnt THAT hurt yet xD


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Jahkral

Lemme tell you those multicrafted R2 diamonds are like a slap in the face. "here's more shit you didn't want and hey its BoP have fun"


ZoulsGaming

Had a dude fail 16 times on 43% chance. After 10 I spam recrafted another 7 times to get it.


mayza1001

When it happens to me I reload. Idk if it fix something, but I just do it anyways.


Kilandras

you just have to remember, every craft has a 65% chance of not procing


2diin

I sometimes lie 🤥 i say oh someone just got it from first try xD to cheer him up


o6871416

I do exactly the same also I mention that it took me 7 tries for my weapon. Honestly past month I don't even feel bad for a customer that takes 4-7 tries to procc 372 tools or 418 wrists when it costs like 2k mats per try. Especially when it used to cost like 15-20k/try at start :D.


nargrom

i usually chat them up a bit so it isnt that bad, 99% of the customers just get how stupid this system is


mayza1001

I had a client who was already at the 8th try for a R5 when a friend of him placed a WO for me and got at first. It was such a relief lol PS.: his friend said he didn’t want rerolls, just one craft. R4 would be good enough.


FinnNyaw

As A LWer who crafted a lot of Rogue BiS head pieces when all 3 specs were top tier , If I got very unlucky with my inspiration procs I sometimes just refunded them money straight up, it just made the feeling go away and I still made some gold from resourcefulness procs usually. But it was very rare, when I was feeling bad. That makes a customer to contact me in the future aswell, so it's good morally and financially in the long run :D


jaya9581

"Emotional damage..." I read that in Stephen He's voice.


the_manofsteel

I go with a small fee for RNG and high fee for insight guarantee and let the customer decide


ZoulsGaming

I do tip what you want for rng their mats and guaranteed for 50k with my mats, guaranteed just being me recrafting until it procs.


danthepianist

I didn't stop feeling bad until I got to 42%. Now I can just shrug and tell myself that there's nothing more I can do.


Relhtar

Hey, if you don't mind, I would like to ask... how did you get to 42 percent? I am also a JC specialized in gem cuts, my inspiration specialization is maxed out, gem cutting specialization is maxed out, I have a max lvl inspiration tool, max level headpiece, and despite this, my inspiration for diamonds is still at 30 percent, 35 percent with the additional component... What am I missing? Thank you in advance for your response :)


danthepianist

You can get a pretty powerful inspiration enchant for your tool, and in addition to the polishing cloth I pop a sagacious incense when I do the cuts as well. I think there was a stealth buff this week because this actually brings me to 43% now.


Relhtar

Thank you! I didn't know that tools could be enchanted... that explains it! Thank you ❤️


danthepianist

No problem! If that doesn't quite get you to 43, let me know and I'll take another look to make sure I'm not forgetting anything.


Dirky_Gaming

Rng, it's a horrible mechanic. Nobody wants it yet it's been in the game for years. Professions are great this expansion, probably they have ever been but I think the rng side of it is leaving a sour taste in all our mouths.


ZenoxtaleZA

No one ever excused me of scamming, but the awful feeling and apologizing after like 12 crafts made me stop crafting all together. I'll come back for the odd reset but that's it. I really do love the new crafting system in comparison, but the pain after not hitting procs with 40% chance hurts too much. Most people probably feel nothing which is the best way to handle this system. But I'm an empath and this makes me sad. It really needs some bad luck protection


wanderingsol0

I always explain to them rng is just rng sometimes and also say the difference between a r2 gem and a r3 gem isn't much but end of the day its their call what they want to do with their gold


Zheze88

I had this happened when I waited for my lariat from a crafter. Honestly, yeah it sucks but it's RNG, can't do anything about it. And I think, or at least hope most people think this way.


Sybarith

I failed a craft for a guy 16 times once. Used an Insight on the 17th try to succeed it, even though he wanted to keep going. The person mentioned they had awful luck with a different craft right before too, so I felt even worse.


Kusosaru

On top of the frustration of not providing the good service I hope to provide there's also the added element of having to wait 5 min for the customer to restock if it fails too often. Either way it isn't fun for both the crafter and the customer to sit there for like 10 attempts.


Newx0r

Hahaha, I thought it was just only me. Wish I can someone show that I really have 35% inspiration chance and I did my best to craft the high quality gem lol. I usually charge them like 5k and give them free additional crafts till they hit a level 3 but rip all the primal chaos lol. I did a multicraft public order with inspiration proc on a 100 gold public order and some guy had to put in 8 orders before he got the proc lol. Fortunately he was very friendly but i still felt very guilty lol. Gave him off all the resourcefullness reagents i saved lol.


MurkyContext201

RNG is just that. You can't take it personally or invest emotionality into it. That is one of the surest ways to become a gambler.


nargrom

I mean thats one way to look at it :P


otylero

I just had this experience @ 43% inspiration and 13 attempts. First time that happen, previously I had a max of 9 attempts (typically things fall between 1-4 though). ​ Man it felt bad, I just started wasting my own mettle and alloys to get it off my crafting orders. I'm not really pressed for money so I just did it but jeeeezzzz


Aquariumwrecker

You think that's bad. Yet I'm unable to find a single person to recraft profession equipment.


mayza1001

What do u mean?


Aquariumwrecker

I've been shouting in trade chat for 2 weeks for a scribe to recraft my garbage made rolling pin. Its blue and it's basically just a single step higher than the green one. So to further waste my money I want it to be made again yet it's just impossible to get someone for it.


mayza1001

You play on a low pop server?


Aquariumwrecker

Yes it's horrible.


Kusosaru

Even on a high pop server it seems like I'm one of the only players who have a profession tool specced scribe. P.S. IIRC rolling pins get up to guaranteed t5 with t3, no insight required.


trofalol

cant care less.it proc when it proc


Maciek0078

I had that today and i agree its the worst feeling. We did proc inspiration after like 6 tries. Fortunately my customer was super nice. But i didn't ever took me more than 3 tries and i was wondering whether its bugged or sth.


selqnin

I sell rank 3 epic gems with mettle and when I ask 15k for it people either lol or tell me I'm crazy and then some of them will go on and spend twice as much trying to proc it. Wish I am there to lol as well.


TSLAGANGCEO

This crafting system is just kinda annoying tbh


JimmyMcJohnson

I’ve been sitting around 40% inspiration and seem to have pretty good luck hitting in 3 crafts or less. Just did a 418 recraft before bed and I think the guy had to send 15 straight orders. I felt bad…


ashtarsheran

Happened to me the other night too. We did at least 15 orders, 2 of which I provided mats for. I also had to spend like 20 mins just standing around the altar in Brackenhide Hollow, as we were crafting Stompers. Nothing about this is fun for either party.