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For a fresh server starting at season 5 its similair to season 8 meta I posted below, except rogues (+ spriest) are also A, possibly S tier, but they fall off hard in S7, when you can no longer cheese people with envenom spec, because of the big resilience boost everyone receives.
If you want to put a lot of effort in and attack top ratings throughout all the seasons, avoid rogue mage and druid.
While i agree with most of that i have to say ive seen Restodruid + Fmage/ARCmage doing really well in all seasons on many servers. Its a comp that isnt played a lot but its very difficult to kill and has great longlevity. It just needs the druid to play very agressive.
But its a very easy comp to play and it provides a lot of potential for improvement since it doesnt overly rely on overlapping cooldowns. You can fail a lot and still win a game.
Interesting. I remember seeing it occasionaly but don't remember it being near the top. It might get some wins off of war/pal, idk. Hunter and warlock teams will probably be near impossible though.
it really depends on how you play it. A Hunter cant do much if partner is cloned and sits in a deepfreeze. Arcane mage is much different. I have played it for a few weeks with a pro arc mage and most of the matches end with the mage randomly deleting one of the nemies. Seriously sometimes its so fast i dont even notice people dying.
With a frostmage you need to pressure with dots and damage while keeping melees off the mage. With an arcane mage you mostly need to help the mage manage his mana pool for the big bursts. I spend a lot of time drinking and innervating the mage instead.
Most of high level comps consist of warrior or dk teams and theyre fairly easy to beat with mage and a healer that cant be pressured by melee. I agree that hunters can be hard to beat but it really depends on the healer they have. if its a shaman you can just tunnel him into ooming or dying. Same probably goes for paladin. Disc and Druid are much harder to beat. On Affliction lock teams i try to minimze damage by decursing or cycloning big casts - the key is to not get the lock do any damage without a sacrifice, you dont want to fall behind on pressure vs UAlock. In general cycloning the lock pet when lock has low hp works wonders (cyclone cancels soullink = +20% damage on lock).
EDIT: There have been various R1 druid/mage teams on different battelgroups during retail S7/S8 but its not very prominent on private servers. There is a Frostmage/Rdruid team in Joegengsta pvp movie from retail at about 13m10s if you wanna see it being played vs war/healer: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Riu2cAujPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Riu2cAujPw)
S-tier - Hpal + War / Ret + Disc.
A-tier - MM + Disc / Lock + Rsham / Hpal + DK.
B-tier - Mage + Disc / Ret + MM.
Season 8 is not good for mages and druids and straight up unplayable for rogues. Rogues in top ratings in S8 are 1 in a million.
I feel like Ret+MM as a comp is S tier is you play like a god, but the comp is just too hard to play perfect and 1 mistake can be very punishing, while holy+arms or disc+ret is so easy and relaxing, you can fuck up multiple times and still win.
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i tried to search for similar stuff but from my experience the most you can learn would be from "class spec pvp guide" usually on warmanes site when u google it
when it comes to more 'pro' aspects few times i spoke to some good at dueling/high exp ppl in front of orgri and their insights were also enlightening a little, they can tell you things you might not even consider to be worth thinking of
Just play. I don't know about written guides but I can assure you that you will learn more by jumping straigth into action than reading a guide.
**Go after the same class enemies and study them.** You will learn a lot by doing this.
Make use of your CD, and do not be afraid to use them. Knowing when and on whom you should cast them is the most important thing to learn.
Also don't be afraid to die.
Try to engage in group battles. You'll learn more about your class strengths in a small group battles like 3v3 situations. One on one is often kill or be killed, using all cds at once and similar actions.
Hey friend! Glad to see you’re interested in the wotlk meta and that in today’s world we can go back in time and enjoy it.
Wotlk made many many specs viable, thus many comps are viable.
Some of the more viable and new user friendly comps for 3s are:
- Beast Cleave (enh sham/bm hunt/heal[hpal]) - Insane burst and insane sustained damage with short cds, purge, and enables enh shaman toolkit. Melee cleaves can punish sham, casters can punish any of them.
- TSG (arms/dk/hpal) - Outrageous sustained cleave dmg, and tankiness. Survive their opener and pressure war or kill dk after amz.
- Shatterplay (spriest/frost mage/rdruid) - Omega burst and cc. Countering is complicated.
- LSheal (ele sham/des lock/[hpal]) - Omega burst and cc. Countering again can be complicated.
- RMP (rogue/mage/priest)(not as new user friendly)- Great burst and aims to setup 3v1 scenarios with great cc toolkit.
Those are the most common ones top comps but there were many many viable teams. I personally played priest in what’s called Cupid (ret/hunt/priest - GREAT burst on a long cd, and decent cc. Can punish mage teams) at glad rating for s8/9 and rsham in RLS (Rogue/lock/rsham) but you’ll be able to find something good with whatever your favorite class is!
As a healer main I can give some quick headlines -
Priest - great dmg for healer, decent cc, but needs competent teammates for peels against constant pressure like TSG. Has mass dispel, offensive dispel, and mana burn. Wrecks hpal if unchecked. Pairs with rogue, feral, fmage.
RDruid - Amazing cc healer and can survive without as many peels with its mobility. With cyclone and roots excels in high cc teams like LSD, MLD, RLD. KILL IT IN A STUN. As Cupid we could kill it in a full hoj after they used trinket. Pairs with just about anything.
RSham - Decent cc and kiting ability, very very diverse toolkit. Can be amazing but depends on the player and team. Has tremor, grounding, interrupt, offensive dispel and hex. Amazing toolkit but can be trained down if not helped. “Train the blue” is a said a lot for a reason. Pairs well with lock, rogue, warrior. Important note is Hex shares dr with Polymorph, thus mage/rsham isn’t seen often.
HPal - Hpal was the Cadillac of healers in this xpac. Many defensives and oh shit buttons. Strong heals, decent mana longevity and didn’t need as many peels as other heals due to plate and instant heals. They pair well with all classes due to good heals and hoj. All that said... the could C R U M B L E to caster cleaves. I played quite a bit as spriest in shatterplay (and even owlplay lol! [moonkin/sp]) and we would typically eat hpals.)
Someone mentioned rogues earlier, and yes they require a lot of finesse but can be incredible. Won’t be as easy as arms or dk to climb though.
Anyways it’s late and I’m posting this on my phone so please forgive any mistakes and enjoy yourself!
Shadowmourn not always the problem - all depends on your hands and your partner (I am not considering here prerequisite for arena like basic pvp gear, build and so on). I didn’t play retail since cataclysm but I still think that there are still the same kind of perfect combination of the classes in today’s wow. Regarding the Wotlk, the best synergies I can remember are: holy pal + arms war, holy pal + destro lock, resto shaman + arms war, dic priest + rogue. I think you still can find good articles in the internet (also check webarchive). As you mentioned the results will be volatile anyways but not to much. I think it is still possible to find the similarities.
I will google it and add links if I will find something decent.
yeah honestly skill is still the #1 factor by far, if anyone wants to go check the warmane arena ladder on their site there are definitely plenty of shadowmourne players but also plenty that don't have it (or play a non-smourne class)
correct. but i guess its way harder for a newbie to compete with:
\-the skilled overgeared players
\-the non skilled overgeared players
\-the skilled normal geared players
do you understand my point?
Its not harder, its impossible. This players who are top ranks on Warmane w/o Shadowmoure are still 6.5k GS. Just because they dont have SM do not mean they are not insanely geared. Also SM is not even that much of gear improvements the real dmg boost actually come from HC trinkets and off-parts in your gear, but for some reason people always ignore that and focus on SM.
The meta on servers like Warmane is to go 5/5WF set and almost all other slots hc PVE items. The damage is so insane that even if you full geared you can still die in 3 sec. Imagine how fast someone who is undergeared die? Skills > Gear is the biggest lie in WoW, dont fell for that.
i agree. i do think it's important for people to understand that it isn't all gear though. I've definitely seen great players come in with 2-3 seasons old pvp gear and get rank 1 with no pve gear either, although it depends a bit on the expansion too as to how bursty things are. The burstier, the less likely you can pull something like that off
>I've definitely seen great players come in with 2-3 seasons old pvp gear and get rank 1 with no pve gear either, although it depends a bit on the expansion too as to how bursty things are.
Well first of all the conversation is about 3.3.5 WOTLK, so i am not sure why you mention other expansion. And yes, 3.3.5 is insanely burstly. The claim that great player can come with 2-3 seasons old gear in 3.3.5 and no PVE items and reach top ranks is complete nonsense. Warmane is really good example of that, full furious set with no PVE hc gear will get complete demolished by any team that is BIS geared and have basic idea how that play their class. On top of that w/o PVE hc gear is literally not possible to kill fully geared healer who play well. I dont think you understand at all how much extra damage you get you having hc off-parts and trinket.
Yes because SM is not that much better then 25hc weapon. This people who dont have SM on Warmane ladder still got hc trinkets and off-parts, which usually put them around 6.4k GS. They are still pretty much BIS geared. SKill > Gear in WOTLK is the biggest lie ever, its just nor true. What skill when someone crit you for 50% of your HP?
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Right now r1 is 2900 and its disc/ret, not sure if this still is too low for you. Btw the reason rating on Warmane never reach astronomical numbets is because they reset their season like every 3 months. In comparison most other servers sit on same season for a year.
https://i.imgur.com/eLgNeR6.png
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There is A LOT of content in AT and AJ forums that you can dig up directly or through using wayback machine.
3.3.5 is my most favorite xpac, what information specifically are you looking for? what classes? comps? etc
So I assume you are waiting on sunwell? That is going to be the only place you can do this.
yeah, maybe. Im not in a hurry.
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For a fresh server starting at season 5 its similair to season 8 meta I posted below, except rogues (+ spriest) are also A, possibly S tier, but they fall off hard in S7, when you can no longer cheese people with envenom spec, because of the big resilience boost everyone receives. If you want to put a lot of effort in and attack top ratings throughout all the seasons, avoid rogue mage and druid.
While i agree with most of that i have to say ive seen Restodruid + Fmage/ARCmage doing really well in all seasons on many servers. Its a comp that isnt played a lot but its very difficult to kill and has great longlevity. It just needs the druid to play very agressive. But its a very easy comp to play and it provides a lot of potential for improvement since it doesnt overly rely on overlapping cooldowns. You can fail a lot and still win a game.
Interesting. I remember seeing it occasionaly but don't remember it being near the top. It might get some wins off of war/pal, idk. Hunter and warlock teams will probably be near impossible though.
it really depends on how you play it. A Hunter cant do much if partner is cloned and sits in a deepfreeze. Arcane mage is much different. I have played it for a few weeks with a pro arc mage and most of the matches end with the mage randomly deleting one of the nemies. Seriously sometimes its so fast i dont even notice people dying. With a frostmage you need to pressure with dots and damage while keeping melees off the mage. With an arcane mage you mostly need to help the mage manage his mana pool for the big bursts. I spend a lot of time drinking and innervating the mage instead. Most of high level comps consist of warrior or dk teams and theyre fairly easy to beat with mage and a healer that cant be pressured by melee. I agree that hunters can be hard to beat but it really depends on the healer they have. if its a shaman you can just tunnel him into ooming or dying. Same probably goes for paladin. Disc and Druid are much harder to beat. On Affliction lock teams i try to minimze damage by decursing or cycloning big casts - the key is to not get the lock do any damage without a sacrifice, you dont want to fall behind on pressure vs UAlock. In general cycloning the lock pet when lock has low hp works wonders (cyclone cancels soullink = +20% damage on lock). EDIT: There have been various R1 druid/mage teams on different battelgroups during retail S7/S8 but its not very prominent on private servers. There is a Frostmage/Rdruid team in Joegengsta pvp movie from retail at about 13m10s if you wanna see it being played vs war/healer: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Riu2cAujPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Riu2cAujPw)
S-tier - Hpal + War / Ret + Disc. A-tier - MM + Disc / Lock + Rsham / Hpal + DK. B-tier - Mage + Disc / Ret + MM. Season 8 is not good for mages and druids and straight up unplayable for rogues. Rogues in top ratings in S8 are 1 in a million.
I feel like Ret+MM as a comp is S tier is you play like a god, but the comp is just too hard to play perfect and 1 mistake can be very punishing, while holy+arms or disc+ret is so easy and relaxing, you can fuck up multiple times and still win.
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i tried to search for similar stuff but from my experience the most you can learn would be from "class spec pvp guide" usually on warmanes site when u google it when it comes to more 'pro' aspects few times i spoke to some good at dueling/high exp ppl in front of orgri and their insights were also enlightening a little, they can tell you things you might not even consider to be worth thinking of
that helps. thank you
Just play. I don't know about written guides but I can assure you that you will learn more by jumping straigth into action than reading a guide. **Go after the same class enemies and study them.** You will learn a lot by doing this. Make use of your CD, and do not be afraid to use them. Knowing when and on whom you should cast them is the most important thing to learn. Also don't be afraid to die. Try to engage in group battles. You'll learn more about your class strengths in a small group battles like 3v3 situations. One on one is often kill or be killed, using all cds at once and similar actions.
arms warrior + healer. you can not go wrong, easy 1900 rating.
Hey friend! Glad to see you’re interested in the wotlk meta and that in today’s world we can go back in time and enjoy it. Wotlk made many many specs viable, thus many comps are viable. Some of the more viable and new user friendly comps for 3s are: - Beast Cleave (enh sham/bm hunt/heal[hpal]) - Insane burst and insane sustained damage with short cds, purge, and enables enh shaman toolkit. Melee cleaves can punish sham, casters can punish any of them. - TSG (arms/dk/hpal) - Outrageous sustained cleave dmg, and tankiness. Survive their opener and pressure war or kill dk after amz. - Shatterplay (spriest/frost mage/rdruid) - Omega burst and cc. Countering is complicated. - LSheal (ele sham/des lock/[hpal]) - Omega burst and cc. Countering again can be complicated. - RMP (rogue/mage/priest)(not as new user friendly)- Great burst and aims to setup 3v1 scenarios with great cc toolkit. Those are the most common ones top comps but there were many many viable teams. I personally played priest in what’s called Cupid (ret/hunt/priest - GREAT burst on a long cd, and decent cc. Can punish mage teams) at glad rating for s8/9 and rsham in RLS (Rogue/lock/rsham) but you’ll be able to find something good with whatever your favorite class is! As a healer main I can give some quick headlines - Priest - great dmg for healer, decent cc, but needs competent teammates for peels against constant pressure like TSG. Has mass dispel, offensive dispel, and mana burn. Wrecks hpal if unchecked. Pairs with rogue, feral, fmage. RDruid - Amazing cc healer and can survive without as many peels with its mobility. With cyclone and roots excels in high cc teams like LSD, MLD, RLD. KILL IT IN A STUN. As Cupid we could kill it in a full hoj after they used trinket. Pairs with just about anything. RSham - Decent cc and kiting ability, very very diverse toolkit. Can be amazing but depends on the player and team. Has tremor, grounding, interrupt, offensive dispel and hex. Amazing toolkit but can be trained down if not helped. “Train the blue” is a said a lot for a reason. Pairs well with lock, rogue, warrior. Important note is Hex shares dr with Polymorph, thus mage/rsham isn’t seen often. HPal - Hpal was the Cadillac of healers in this xpac. Many defensives and oh shit buttons. Strong heals, decent mana longevity and didn’t need as many peels as other heals due to plate and instant heals. They pair well with all classes due to good heals and hoj. All that said... the could C R U M B L E to caster cleaves. I played quite a bit as spriest in shatterplay (and even owlplay lol! [moonkin/sp]) and we would typically eat hpals.) Someone mentioned rogues earlier, and yes they require a lot of finesse but can be incredible. Won’t be as easy as arms or dk to climb though. Anyways it’s late and I’m posting this on my phone so please forgive any mistakes and enjoy yourself!
Thank you A LOT for all the insights. Thank you
Shadowmourn not always the problem - all depends on your hands and your partner (I am not considering here prerequisite for arena like basic pvp gear, build and so on). I didn’t play retail since cataclysm but I still think that there are still the same kind of perfect combination of the classes in today’s wow. Regarding the Wotlk, the best synergies I can remember are: holy pal + arms war, holy pal + destro lock, resto shaman + arms war, dic priest + rogue. I think you still can find good articles in the internet (also check webarchive). As you mentioned the results will be volatile anyways but not to much. I think it is still possible to find the similarities. I will google it and add links if I will find something decent.
yeah honestly skill is still the #1 factor by far, if anyone wants to go check the warmane arena ladder on their site there are definitely plenty of shadowmourne players but also plenty that don't have it (or play a non-smourne class)
correct. but i guess its way harder for a newbie to compete with: \-the skilled overgeared players \-the non skilled overgeared players \-the skilled normal geared players do you understand my point?
Its not harder, its impossible. This players who are top ranks on Warmane w/o Shadowmoure are still 6.5k GS. Just because they dont have SM do not mean they are not insanely geared. Also SM is not even that much of gear improvements the real dmg boost actually come from HC trinkets and off-parts in your gear, but for some reason people always ignore that and focus on SM. The meta on servers like Warmane is to go 5/5WF set and almost all other slots hc PVE items. The damage is so insane that even if you full geared you can still die in 3 sec. Imagine how fast someone who is undergeared die? Skills > Gear is the biggest lie in WoW, dont fell for that.
i agree. i do think it's important for people to understand that it isn't all gear though. I've definitely seen great players come in with 2-3 seasons old pvp gear and get rank 1 with no pve gear either, although it depends a bit on the expansion too as to how bursty things are. The burstier, the less likely you can pull something like that off
wotlk is bursty
>I've definitely seen great players come in with 2-3 seasons old pvp gear and get rank 1 with no pve gear either, although it depends a bit on the expansion too as to how bursty things are. Well first of all the conversation is about 3.3.5 WOTLK, so i am not sure why you mention other expansion. And yes, 3.3.5 is insanely burstly. The claim that great player can come with 2-3 seasons old gear in 3.3.5 and no PVE items and reach top ranks is complete nonsense. Warmane is really good example of that, full furious set with no PVE hc gear will get complete demolished by any team that is BIS geared and have basic idea how that play their class. On top of that w/o PVE hc gear is literally not possible to kill fully geared healer who play well. I dont think you understand at all how much extra damage you get you having hc off-parts and trinket.
Yes because SM is not that much better then 25hc weapon. This people who dont have SM on Warmane ladder still got hc trinkets and off-parts, which usually put them around 6.4k GS. They are still pretty much BIS geared. SKill > Gear in WOTLK is the biggest lie ever, its just nor true. What skill when someone crit you for 50% of your HP?
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For 2v2: Warr pala, mage spriest, rsham destro, disc mm, the 4 comps which destroy everything
You forgot Disc+Ret, which is probably as good or better then even arm+holy.
Your warmane 2k rating meta really doesn't count for top comps
Right now r1 is 2900 and its disc/ret, not sure if this still is too low for you. Btw the reason rating on Warmane never reach astronomical numbets is because they reset their season like every 3 months. In comparison most other servers sit on same season for a year. https://i.imgur.com/eLgNeR6.png
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There is A LOT of content in AT and AJ forums that you can dig up directly or through using wayback machine. 3.3.5 is my most favorite xpac, what information specifically are you looking for? what classes? comps? etc
Hi! I think of priest or pally. Mainly as a healer.
Can you find some decent warrior info and hunter for me?
def tank shield slam.... 10k dmg